So what's going on, everybody?

What's up? I'm back.

No, hey.

Hey, this time.

Hey. Hey.

I forgot about.

Hey, hey.

Hey.

I thought he was gonna. Hey. Hey.

I'm Derek.

I'm Matt.

And I'm Dave.

And Dave is back.

Mm.

Back again.

Can't help himself.

Nope.

Dave is back. All right, so today, one of y'. All. One of y' all sent in a topic, and we're going to talk about it.

We love listener topics.

We do. What's interesting is my favorite things.

I used to listen to a podcast where they would take anonymous emails. You could literally. They would actually take emails, sometimes even live, if you can get in at the right time. And they insisted we keep it anonymous. And I think it was so that the host could, like, he would literally say, that guy's an idiot, or that guy's. I don't want to talk to that guy or something. And so, like, don't ever read me his name, because then I'm gonna feel like I can't be mean. Yeah.

Oh, that's great. All right, so today's topic is heart posture. The person that sent it in said, what's deep in the well comes out with a bucket, is her quote. So what's deep in the well comes out in the bucket, comes out with the bucket.

Comes out with the bucket.

Okay. Yeah, so great. Great conversation piece I think we're going to have today.

Yeah, instantly, I have a character in mind from the Bible or person. But, I mean, I could save it.

I think you should save it.

I should save it.

I think you should just save it.

Yeah.

Keep it secret after the break. But yeah. So heart condition. So I like the topic because I think that's a valid point, is like, what we're. What we're allowing to reside within us is gonna come out, you know, so what we're. I'm talking to the kids a lot about what we're intaking.

You know, what's interesting is. And I was watching a guy on YouTube, one of the. One of the big guys that. One of the pastors that does podcast. I can't remember his name off top of my head, not to save my life. He's a. He's a popular one, though. He's. He's one that. You guys would know if you saw his face now. You probably would. You probably would.

The pastor that does podcasting. Go ahead.

Anyways, so he was talking about how, like, it's not about what goes in. It's not what goes in that defiles You. Yeah, but it's what comes out. And what's interesting is, yes, what goes in does, you know, affect you, but it's what comes out.

Well, that's really what we're keeping. When Jesus made the point, it's not about eating unclean foods and worrying about that making you unclean. It's what about what comes out of a person's heart? Well, what are you storing in there? What are you allowing to reside within your heart? And where is your heart? I guess that's really the question we have. Where's your heart when it comes to everything? Really?

Well, I think that also that leads way to, to the things that are maybe on the fence. Like, okay, so for instance, alcohol, right? We can, we can throw that out there as on the fence. Like, some people are like, yeah, it's fine. It's totally fine. And then there's the people that are like, no, you can't, you can't. You can't drink. And it's like, well, I mean, Jesus did. He created wine, you know, and all this stuff. Like, there's, there's so many arguments back and forth, but it's like, okay, is it affecting you? Is it having in a negative effect? Is it changing your character? Is it. You know, because if it's not, then it's not infecting you.

Right.

But, but if it is affecting you, then it is defiling you because it's coming. It's the negative that it's pulling out of you.

Yeah, and that's, that's, that's something that everyone needs to, to be able to keep them. I went with anything.

Sure, sure.

Any beverage or substance or even food. Like, it's like, look, it's, you know, a lot of things are fine in moderation. A lot of things are okay and permissible, but not everything's beneficial, especially if you make an idol out of it or it starts to take over your life. Which sounds the same, but they're a little bit different. Because think about, like, if we're talking about alcohol, thinking about people that have just a problem with alcohol, they can't even get a taste of it. Or else it's like, game on. And that's not good. You know, people drink themselves to death. A guy who went to high school drank himself to death. You know, it's like, these things happen. And so it's like, okay, some things are okay for some people, but they're not okay for everybody.

Right?

So we can't. It's not something necessarily to celebrate. And it's not something necessarily to condemn. It's something to know and be aware of. And sometimes it takes being able to look into yourself and go, okay, where am I with this? What are my motivations with this? What's the why? Why am I doing this? All those things play a big factor. And if you're willing to give an honest reflection and you find the wrong answers, it's time to make changes.

Yeah, if you definitely see that coming up, whatever that thing may be, definitely inspect it.

Inspect it for sure. But there's also a correlation between conviction. It's like, this doesn't bother and I'm okay with this. And then, like, I think a good example is, were you guys around? Obviously you were around. But a lot of some of this newer generation doesn't know that there was a time when you could go smoke in a restaurant. You would literally be sitting.

Smoking or non smoking.

Yeah, Smoking or non smoking, Dude.

I talk about that from time to time. It's so weird.

It is.

It's so weird to think about now, but I remember having conversations with people who are livid that they wouldn't allow me to smoke in the restaurant. It's my right and it doesn't bother me. Right, but you're bothering everybody else and they're. Well, they should have to worry about their own selves, you know, that kind of thing. So you got. So that you got the conviction, the smoking doesn't bother me, but the consideration of the people around you. Yeah, but it's bothering all these other people and you're doing them a disservice by engaging in whatever you're doing.

Yeah, and it was funny because sometimes the smoking section would literally be right next to the non smoke. So it's like all smoking section except for the smoke's coming from that way. And it was just kind of funny how it all added up. I'll tell you what, it's been a big change because I remember I used to love going to pool halls. I grew up, my grandfather had a pool table, so I loved playing. And I used to. I was pretty good at especially nine ball. I love nine ball.

But.

So I went to pool halls a lot. But people smoked in pool halls and I didn't smoke. But every time I went to a pool hall, you knew it because I reeked of it. Oh, my clothes would like soak it in.

Yeah.

And I'm like, now you go into these places and it's like, it just feels weird.

You got the people vaping, so it smells kind of like A field of berries.

That actually makes me more angry somehow.

I don't know.

See some guy like, tatted up with chains and he's vaping a moonlight mist. Mint.

Not mist. Mint.

Whatever.

I don't know. It's weird.

I like what you said there though, because when you're talking about. That's a good example of how something that doesn't always change your character can change your character. And what I mean by that is like, like for instance, church is the easiest way to describe it. Church setting. Everybody tries to be on their best behavior, quote unquote. Right.

And.

And so, like, that could be the normal you. Right. I could give you credit for that being the normal you. But then like, if you're out and about, if you were at one of those restaurants and you threw a huge fit over the fact that, you know, you can't, you can't smoke in this restaurant anymore, that is now adjusting your character. It's changing your character because of this thing that has seeped into you.

Yeah.

Whereas some people that don't have any issue with that, you know, it may be hurting the, the physical body or something, but it, it's not necessarily affecting the character in which is the important part. I would say, I would say that that's where, like, that's where you're gonna see the fruit of the spirit. And that's, that's, that's the important part is the spirit and what's coming out of you.

I think that'll be a really important thing to talk about. When we talk about heart, posture, or condition. Today is what comes out when the bad happens. Like, where are you at for when the stuff hits the fan? That's, that's the ultimate thing because, I mean, our normal day to day stuff, it's important. But like, you know, if you want to see. Some of us feel like we're pretty studied up on the Bible, we're pretty prayed up in our, in our faith life. And then the stuff hits the fan and you'll see exactly where you are.

Yep, yep.

I love the line from. Was it the. The Joker in the Dark Knight when he says, when stuff hits the fan, these people will eat each other.

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, there was some validity to that statement, you know, where it's like people sometimes will show you the darkness within them.

When does the intro kick in?

Yeah. Oh, this is a lot of good stuff to talk about.

Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes we go half an hour before we.

Okay, fair enough.

I mean, like, we actually.

What was it? What Was our longest. It was almost like 45.

Yeah, I think we went 45 minutes. One time was like, oh, yeah, welcome to the cruise response, you know, like, oh, we forgot to do that.

You know, and then you come back, like, thank you for joining.

Come back and we pray, and then, you know, then get back into it.

But it's like, no, it was okay.

Yeah, it's good to have something different every once in a while. I think they appreciate a little bit of change every once in a while. If not, leave a comment.

Yeah, leave a comment with your suggest. No, I love these kinds of things, though. I love that we get to talk into this. I think it's important.

Really?

Yeah. So, sure. Let me double check something really quick before we just toss in and go on.

We can't even go through a podcast without him getting on his phone.

I'm looking at topics. I'm looking at things people have sent me. Fine. Whatever. Whatever. This guy, right?

Like, this guy, the guy in the middle.

This guy, the guy in the middle.

Yeah. It just ends up being that way because.

Never mind. I'm not gonna say that. Welcome to the truth response.

Hey. Hey.

Dave, why don't you pray today?

All right. Thank you, Jesus, for bringing us all together, and I pray that you eradicate this horrible cold that's going around to everyone and let's see. Guide our words and actions today. Get us out of our own way, and let your. Let your glory shine through in Jesus. Jesus name. Amen.

Amen.

By the way, I got to have lunch with Pastor Nick. That was a. That was a fun experience.

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a cool dude.

Where did you go?

Three pepper. Nice.

That's his place, man.

Default.

Well, it was gonna be Maggie's house, but then it turns out they're closed on Mondays. So I'm like, hey, let's go to Joe's Cafe. It's right up the street, and it's really good.

They were also closed Monday. So first walk is closed.

Next, like, I'm gonna default to my place. You know, I was joking with him. I remember because he came back in, and I was like, where'd you go to lunch? He's like, three pepper. And I was like, did you throw them off? Because they're like, it's not Friday. And because that's his favorite place to go on a Friday.

Well, his wife does not like Mexican food.

Oh.

So she. He doesn't get to go there unless.

Fair enough.

Goes with other people. And so that's kind of like the Friday spot.

Good Mexican food. El Turrasco is pretty darn good.

Yeah, actually, that's right. That's where I sent the wrestlers when they came for Winterfest.

Yeah, I like Taco Tuesdays. I'll go there and get like five tacos for a buck a piece.

Nice.

Great. Yeah.

I didn't realize that was a thing.

I tell you what, it will put your heart in the right condition every Tuesday. It's like a three pack or a five pack, you know, you get. It's good.

All right, so heart condition, heart posture.

Heart posture.

That's what we're talking about. So actually, I'm going to just jump in. So this actually reminds me.

You're just going to jump in?

I'm just going to jump in.

Did I allow that?

No, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Insert splash sound here.

Yeah, actually, that's incredibly appropriate. And I'll tell you why. Because the person I want to talk about is Jonah. How did you know?

I read your thing.

Yeah, I read my thing. I tried to write it so you couldn't understand what it was. All right, so, yes. So the heart condition is really important. And one of the things that I was talking about before we went on the break is, you know, what is your condition even when the bad happens. And what's interesting about Jonah is he showed just that. Now Jonah was even being bad, he wasn't being good in his day to day because God told him to do something and he said no, and he tried to run away from it. He even was like, just kill me, you know, and they threw him overboard. Insert splash sound. But here's the thing. God sent the fish. Yeah, God sent the fish. And then while he was inside the belly of the fish, he started to pray. And what's amazing about his prayer, it's basically a collection of scripture that he was regurgitating. Like, it showed that although he had been a little bit disobedient before this, when it was really on his down, when he was stuck inside this, not sureing which way was up or what was going to happen, the thing that came from him was what he had ingested, what he had kept in his heart. And that was all the different scripture that he had read. You see different. Different psalms represented. And it's just. It's amazing. And I look at that as, like, that is what it looks like. That is what it looks like when. When everything is against you. When. When the world seems like it is like you've been swallowed by a fish. This is what comes out of Jonah is scripture, a deep love for his word and for God. And it comes out in a prayer of just open honesty. And so that's. That's what I'm talking about. Like, when it comes to, like, what it is to have an amazing heart posture, like, we can have our outside behavior, can look like a whole lot of other things, but it's what's on the inside that counts. Like, what the fruit of us inside of us really counts.

I think that's the only positive take on Jonah I've ever heard.

That's interesting because, like, I.

Honestly, I don't know, dude. Like, I think Jonah was. He was one of those people that's like, oh, yeah, that makes me feel like, oh, there's garbage. Human beings that get used by God, you know, like, that's. That's. Cause I mean, but he never.

He.

He always hates these people.

There's, like, more.

He never not hates the people at the end of the story. He still hates those people.

I have.

And it's like, whoa, come on, bro.

I have a deep love for the book of Jonah, and I. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm one of those guys.

There's so much in it.

There is.

I'm not going to say there's not.

Going back over it and going back over it. And I love when I can find more stuff, but when I. When I was coming across that, when I was seeing really what that was made of, I had a different appreciation for him and why God chose him. Like, this was a guy that did know his stuff, that did have a lot of good in him. But one of them, when he was asked to do something he didn't want to do, is when he fought back.

Sure.

You know what I mean? And even then, he threw an attitude because he knew that God was gonna relent and he knew that the people in Nineveh were gonna be fine, and yet still inside of him is right in the middle of it. And it makes a difference. It does. It makes a huge difference on, you know, when stuff's gonna happen around you. I mean, I've talked about this before, but, like, you'd be surprised what you can get through when your heart's in the right posture, especially when it's in the right posture with God, you know what that will be able. So, like, my wife and I, I've spoken about this before where it's like we had this dark cloud over our heads where it just seemed like one thing was happening after another. And big things, too. I mean, cars getting Total. Because people are smashing into them. Our plumbing went out in the house, a tree fell in and smashed part of our house. Like, one thing after another. To top it all off, my coffee maker broke, and I was getting ready to lose it, you know. But, no, I'm in now. I love joking about that, because when that happened, I was like, really?

Seriously.

So. But I was in church and I was telling somebody that, hey, you know, this has been happening that. And so I was just kind of getting him caught up on a lot of the events as they. And he is like, how are you smiling about this? I'm like, well, it's because I know God's got me. And that's the security. Like, when our heart's in a. Like, really trusting God. Even when the things. Just when the chips are down and when the things are really hitting the fan, like, if you can have that solid faith and trust in God and who he is greater than you and greater than your situation, then it's going to come out. You're going to be able to see it in those moments, you know, and oftentimes you'll see people who, you know, on the outside, their faith looks great, but then they become ever panicky, and it's like, where'd that faith go that you felt like. And it almost reminds me. Almost reminds me of Peter, you know, when he's asked to walk on the water, Jesus, pull me out here, tell me to come out, and I'll do it. So he jumps out and he's standing on the water, and all it takes is the strike of lightning and he's suddenly, whoops, yeah, well, where'd that faith go? Jesus even called it that little faith. He's like, yeah, it wasn't what you were boasting. It was.

Sure.

And it's not the only time he gets humbled for that, too.

But when our worship pastor, Matt, he. He was doing a short little lesson on this, and it was. It was awesome. His analogy was, you know, fruit. You know, fruit, if it's. If it's rotten, you sometimes don't know until you squeeze it. And then whenever you squeeze fruit, you'll know whether it's rotten or not by the juice that comes out. Right. So like, when squeezed, you know, I mean. And the thing is, like, even on that, sometimes we're a little bruised.

Sure.

You know, I mean, sometimes there's a part of us that's got some bad juice in it. You know, it's starting to rot, and we need to do what you would do in Any kind of cooking situation is. Cut that part out. Right? That's good.

Well, we also live in southwest Florida, which is prone to hurricanes. And if nothing else, like you talking about, when it hits the fan, you get to see who people really are. And it's fascinating, the minute the call goes out, hey, guys, start stocking up on gasoline and propane and that kind of stuff. People change. And it's like, I've had the sweetest little old lady practically elbow me in the throat just to get one step past me to get something off the shelf. And it's.

It's fascinating to watch what happened up north, too. But we didn't get, you know, well, hurricanes. If they came up our way, they'd turn it back into tropical storms before they hit us. Normally, not every time, but normally. But even when, if we had a bad storm or a lot of times it was a blizzard, hey, we're expecting a lot of snow, and we'd be getting, like. We're getting prepared to get buried. And you'd have the same things, almost the same stuff that people would get. You know, there'd be toilet paper and gasoline. And for some reason, bread is always what needs to go first. But by the way, it's amazing. Like, are you freezing all this bread? It doesn't last long anyway, so. But there's. There's always this need to stock up. And I remember up there especially, I don't know how bad it was in Florida, because I didn't experience it down here, but, like, when Covid hit up there, it felt like the same thing. Everybody just took everything off the shelves, and I'm like, okay, so what exactly are you expecting here? Where is your faith? Where is. You know, And Jesus makes a really big case for that in the Sermon on the Mount of, like, don't worry about the stuff that you need. Have faith in me that I will continue to provide, that God is going to provide the things that you need. You know, it's almost like a call back to the heart posture that he took 40 years getting the Israelites into so that, you know, because they came out of Egypt and they were like, oh, we love you. And then it's like, second, the first bad thing happens. Ah, why. Why are we out of Egypt? We were so much better there. And, like, he's like, no. And so he taught them to rely on him for water and manna and every food. And, you know, it took a while for the generations that had bad. He taught their kids that. That's what I mean.

He Taught their kids. He showed the children of the people that went into the wilderness that from. From childhood. And this is where. This is where, you know, if you train a child up in the way they should go, when they're older, they won't depart from it. Like, there. There is this thing where, you know, you got that generation that actually goes in the promised land. It's solid.

Yep.

And then it falls apart.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, but it was kind of like a call back to that. It's like, no, rely on me for this stuff. And. And, you know, I was reading Mark today, and I was thinking about when he went to the fig tree and cursed it and what he talks about when it comes to prayer. And what I love about that is a couple things. Number one, the thing about the fig tree, I mean, it represents Israel. It represents the temple and everything that goes with it and the fact that it's not producing fruit. Now, when he walks up to the tree, he sees leaves. And so he's thinking, well, there could be fruit. Because that's often the case if you see leaves, if it's starting to bud. And yet there was nothing, you know, and it's hard to take because, you know, we can look good on the outside, but then there can be no fruit in our lives. We can be fruitless. You know, Israel was supposed to be this people. And on the outside, if you didn't know any better, it's like, oh, these people are the people of this God. But they're fruitless. They've taken advantage of it. You know, he clears the temple. He's like, this is ridiculous. You guys have made this a whole blaspheming thing. And then he talks about what it is to pray when they see the tree withered, right? And he says, you know, you gotta have faith and believe in your heart. And the faith comes foremost in who God is, you know, and what God can do. You know, you have what's going to happen to the temple, it's going to be destroyed. But you have this tree that's the representation of that. It's like God is the God of miracles. He shows you what he can do, and you have to be able to have faith in who he is and what he is capable of, which is anything. And if you can have faith in that, therefore, you go and ask, knowing that he is the powerful God that can do these things. And you ask according to his will for these things. And, you know, when your heart also, it kind of shows you have to have that Be in the right condition here. Because James will point out, if you go to God with the wrong heart condition, when you're asking, he's like, you're not asking the right way. You're not asking for right things. You're being selfish. You're doing this for your purposes, not God's purposes, not his kingdom purposes. And so we have to make sure that in everything that we do that we are, you know, checking ourselves, make sure that we're going about things from the right heart condition or that we, if need be, we need to work on that condition.

Yeah.

Yep. I mean, that comes down to a lot of people who are talking, you know, they misunderstand the scripture about. He's going to give you the desires of your heart. Right. Which is great. But then if you get deeper and deeper into it, he's trying to change your heart to be like his heart, thereby giving you the desires of his heart. So we'll go, well, if I just follow him, I'm going to get whatever I want. No, no, no, no, no. You're doing. But I mean, even if you look at the. The difference between, like, you're talking about hard posture of like, you know, Jonah didn't want to go, but he went anyway. And he was begrudging, but he did it anyway. And that kind of stuff. And eventually it kind of came out. This all is inside of me. I know what I should do. I don't want to do it, but I'm going to do it anyway. Like, I had. I remember there was a. And you can correlate it to not wanting to do something but doing it anyway. And also, I really want to do this. And you told me, no, that's right. So trusting your covering. Right. So when, like years ago, my wife and I, we had led multiple Bible studies up in Minnesota. So we're. We know what we're doing. And so I went to my covering at the time, and I was like, I want to start a Bible study. I just want to let you know. I was literally just saying, I want to let you know I'm going to be doing this. And he stopped me and he goes, I don't think you're ready for it. And I was pretty upset. And I was like, he goes, this isn't the season, and I don't think you're where you need to be yet. So trust me when I say you're not ready. I was like, I disagree. I literally got to the point where I was, like, almost, like, visibly shaking, and I was like, I Don't like your response. I think I'm ready. And I'm very angry that you're saying that I'm not. But I understand that you're above me, and you hear from God when I don't. So maybe God's saying something to you that he's not saying to me. I'm not happy about this, but I'll go along with it. And it was. I think it was a little while later other things started falling into place. It was like, oh, if I had done that, these wouldn't have worked out. Which worked out better. But then even recently, with. Well, about a little over year. Well, now it's been almost two years. Holy cow. When the young adult director stepped down from Victory, I just naturally assumed my wife and I were just going to slip right in because I'd been helping the guy. Whoops. So when I sat with the associate pastors, they're like, no, we're not. We're not there yet. I was like, I don't understand. Like, this. I'm here. This is. I'm the. I'm the guy that it makes sense. And then they said, just trust us. I'm like, okay. I was upset, but I was like.

It is what it is.

I've been through this before. And then almost a year to the day later, they sat us down and they were like, hey, so we've been praying about it, and we think now is the right time. And then now turning around and looking back at it, I go, holy cow. If we had taken it, we wanted to take it. There was so much turmoil that came in the year that we would have had it. Everything would have fallen apart. Like, it was just. Everything would have crumb. I'm sure you guys have had similar situations.

You know, we can't see what God sees. We don't know what God knows. And his reasons are always greater than ours. The things we want necessarily don't necessarily mean that that's what we need to get. You know, he often will look at, say, well, this. I see what you say that you want. I see what you say that you need, but I know this is what you really need, ultimately what you're really going to want. And so I'm going to keep going in this direction. And if you're willing to have faith and trust me, you're gonna be happy that I didn't. And, yeah, there's been a few different times in my life where I've been like, oh, I'm actually kind of glad that happened now. I actually Tried to give my son a little bit of perspective on that, because, you know, he's only in eighth grade. Eighth graders are really funny. Any middle schooler is really funny. Any kid in middle school or high school is really funny, especially when they think that they're ready for some kind of relationship. Cause I'm like, yeah, your odds are already stacked against you at this point. But anyway, so my eighth grader, right. He had this girl he liked, and they decided they were together, and. And then she broke up with him. But then he comes to find out that his. That his buddy or supposed buddy had been kind of trying to steal her. And. And so has also that happened. So when she broke up with him, she told my son, I'm just not ready to be in a relationship right now, and then immediately turned around and got in a relationship with this other kid. And I'm like, so he's mad. He was frustrated with her.

Sure.

Although she was right. She. She was right. She was not ready to be in a relationship.

No, she's not.

She's not.

She's not wrong. So. But she's. I was like, look, I said, you know, and he's mad at his buddy. And I said, well, okay, a couple things about that. Sometimes guys are dogs.

Yep.

And they do dog things. And. And. But I said, you're mad now, and you have a. You have right to be mad. You have a right to be frustrated. But it's a good time to know, to notice that this is. These people are not the ones you're gonna want in your life. This. That's not the girl for you. Obviously, she's proven it. That dude's not your buddy.

Yeah.

He thought of himself over you. That's not a friend.

Yeah.

I said, so it's a two for one special. In the long run, they've done you a favor.

Yep.

They've shown you now their true color so that you can move from it. And then if for some reason they can have a change of heart, because sometimes people can change if they can get it together. And maybe later down the road, maybe there can be a reconciliation of a friendship where you can move together. Sometimes not. But, you know, it's better that she showed you now that she's not the one. I mean, like, he was already planning, like, Valentine's Day gifts and stuff. I'm like, dude, you saved your money. It's great, you know, but sometimes it's like you're kind of glad later on that some things happen the way they happen. I know that. So in my early 20s, I went through a divorce, and I thought it was the worst possible thing that could happen. Now I'm so incredibly grateful that it happened because I love my wife. You know what I mean? Like, these. There's so much that can happen in the moment. You're like, this is it. How dare this happen. God, why is this happening? And then later you're like, thanks.

Thanks for that.

I would say that if you want to be effective in ministry, learn how to pivot. Oh, yeah, learn how to pivot. Learn how to just be like, oh, okay, this isn't the direction. Next.

Next.

And just be ready to. Whatever the thing is, you know, like, between that and like, we. We did the. Oh, experiencing God, right?

Yeah, experiencing God.

We did that study. And really the idea that, you know, it's not about what God is calling us to do as much as, where is he working? That's where he wants us, you know, which is. It's a. Both and right. Like, there. There is both. But. But it's very much a. Like, he's not giving everyone this whole special. You get to start a ministry revelation. You know, sometimes it's. I'm already working right here, and I want you to show up because you've got a spot right here that I would like you to fill.

Sure.

You know what I mean? And. And more often than not that's the case is that it's like, there's things I'm already doing. Please open your eyes and look around you. And with that, like, there may be something you're wanting to do. Yep. You may be wanting to lead a class, but there was something else that God's actually wanting you to do. And both things are good, but one thing is Godly. You know what I mean?

And you made an interesting point earlier. I want to make a connection to it. So you talked about the one that you begrudgingly didn't want to do it, but then you ended up doing it. That happens a lot where we see God moving and it's not necessarily the direction we wanted to go. But then we're like, all right, well, I'm aligned with him. And then it ends up working out well. You know, Jesus made a point of this. He said, you know, he basically gave an example to the Pharisees. He's like, all right, so there was a guy who said he was going to do something, but then he didn't. Then there's a guy that said he wasn't going to do it, but then he did, and he's like, who's justified? The guy that did it. Exactly. You know, it's not about saying you will and then not doing it. It's about the guy. It's what goes in action. Sometimes you're a little hesitant. Sometimes you get. And God knows that sometimes for us, it takes us a moment to get align with him because, you know, and it shows us sometimes, like, look, man, you're out of whack. It's time to line up. Yeah, but. But, yeah, but it counts, you know, that doesn't mean we should force our. Okay, we want to serve with a glad heart. That's ultimately we want to do. Does that mean that, like, we don't want to go in and try to serve and be angry about it? You know, that's where you're at. Either don't do it or you need to fix the heart condition. Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal. So, like, what I'm talking about is, yeah, I get it. It takes an adjustment, you know, but it's good if we can make that adjustment. If it causes you to be angry or something like that. You need to rethink this, take a step back. And we need to get that fixed. We need to see where you're at. And that's with everything. I mean, we've even talked about that a long time ago. We talked about this on the show. Even when it comes to worship music, you know, some people walk in the door and they're like, well, this isn't the music I normally listen to. This isn't the worship song that I like. This isn't kind of.

I'll tell you what, Newsflash. Our Sunday morning worship is not the stuff that I listen to when I'm worshiping on my own.

Yep.

Yeah. Like, that is not. I do not enjoy contemporary Christian music when I'm listening. I do not enjoy it at all most of the time. So there's a few I like, but most of the time, I don't want to listen to Caleb. I don't want to listen to Way fm. I don't want to listen to any of that. Most of the time.

At least the first five times the song.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying that's not my attitude.

Again by somebody else.

That's not my cup of tea, you know, like. But there's a heart posture that when you walk into worship, that it doesn't matter. And this is what I tell. I tell anybody on the praise team who complains about. About we're doing the song Again, Like, I tell them, you need to be able to come in here and worship through this song as though it was the only song we ever were gonna do. Like, if this is the only song that you ever get to do for all of eternity, you need to worship the first time like you do the last time. Like, it doesn't matter what song we're playing. It doesn't matter. Any of that. Your heart posture has to be, I'm here to worship God.

Yep.

Period.

And that's the point. We're not here to worship you or worship him.

Right.

And you're right. I love that because, yeah, that song, it might not be the song you normally listen to, may not be the one you sing in your car. It may not be the one that you're like, well, if I was worshiping on my own, I might worship a different way. Yes. But, you know, this is the song that we've chosen to worship God together.

Yeah.

Yep.

And there's something beautiful about that, and that's even coming from a guy that. That would almost go out of my way not to have a hymnal handed to me and sing out of that, because I did that for a lot of my life. I didn't like that at all. But, you know, there is something even beautiful from there when everybody is singing the song together and you can tell that people are singing with their hearts. And usually everybody's singing different ways. There's something awesome about that. And, you know, if you're not worshiping the person next to you or anyone in the church building, don't worry about what you sound like. You just sing your heart to God with everyone else.

And that doesn't stop with music. Right. Like, I talk about when people come into the church. You're gonna find whatever you're looking for. If you're looking for hypocrites, you're gonna find them. If you're gonna. If you're looking to get hurt, you're gonna. You're gonna be there like. But if you're looking for Jesus, you're gonna find him. Well, it's. It's that. That is the heart posture that I'm talking about when I say that. And that's. That's the. What are you looking for in your life? Like, that's where your heart is, you know, because wherever your heart is there, you know, or wherever your treasure is, you know, their heart is also, or whatever. Like, where. Where is your focus? What are you looking for? Because we're supposed to seek first the kingdom of heaven, right? Like, if we're doing that, if we're seeking God first.

Yep.

In all the things. Like, our heart posture is going to be ready for whatever God throws at us or allows this. Allows to happen to us, you know, like, we're gonna be ready for that because of our heart posture.

Yeah.

If we're seeking him first, he's training us for sure.

Well, I mean, like, even pastors, like, what. Like, you're. You spend your time. You're like, this is what God has laid on my heart to bring to you people. And then people afterwards, like, wow, that was powerful. It spoke to me. No one ever thinks about the fact that the worship pastor's job is to sit and go. God brought this to me and says, this is what he wants us to sing today. This is what I feel like is gonna minister the most to the most people. And us going, okay, great. Because what. It's probably the most criticized aspect of a church service. Well, I don't like that song. And that song was too loud and the lights are too this. And it's like you're focusing on the wrong thing.

But that's. This is a good. This is a good topic for. I mean, this is a good example to pick apart this topic. Because, I mean, not for nothing, like, if you are the person who's like, the music's too loud or the music's too this, whatever, it might be too new, too old. I mean, if you're in one of the churches that do hymns or whatever, or doesn't have, you know, there's no instruments or whatever. If you're that person who's going to wait outside of service because of. Yeah, I'm calling people out. Here we go. Oh, yeah. If you're going to wait outside of service right. Until the music is done, what are you saying to all the people that know you.

Mm.

In there?

Yeah.

My heart's not in worship. That's what you're saying. Oh, you're saying my heart's not in worship through. Through music today. I'm not here for the right reasons at that point.

Oh.

So I just want to. I mean, I know that's gonna be some people, even in this church, if they. If they hear this. It is what it is. I truly. I don't care. I'm not stepping on. You know, I don't care if I step on those, you know, so, like. But that's. That's the deal. Like, your heart is in the wrong place if you are like, I don't want to get bap. In front of a bunch of people. I want to do it by myself in secret. Like, it's like your heart's in the wrong place. You know, people do that. It's like, I've had somebody say that, and that's one of those people. I'd be like, you should really check your heart on this, because I don't know if you understand what's going on.

I've had the conversation with many people about the difference between. I mean, look, if it's. If it's. I would rather. I would rather do it privately because I want someone baptized more than I want them not baptized, especially if that they genuinely believe in Jesus. But, like, I do have that conversation. It's not really about, you know, they're not there watching you and judging how you're doing that. They're there to celebrate and be part of this moment of watching someone give their life to Jesus.

It's a celebration for sure.

It's an amazing moment. And you're right. So if you're going. I mean, like, just staying on the topic of music. So I've had many people that have come, and I'm like, They're like, well, you know, this isn't, you know, going back. This isn't the music I've been listening to. It's like, why? Because you do not listen to praise music. You listen to secular music, and you don't understand why the spiritual battle is with your music. It's like you've bought into something you don't realize you've bought into yet. And that. What's interesting is that I love when people experience worship music for the first time. Not hear it, experience it. And I see it with my students. We'll go to the move trip, the big move trip. And there's kids that barely participate in any kind of worship whatsoever. And suddenly they have an experience with God through the worship in one of these things. And it changes their heart in a way where now their hands are up and they're singing, or they're down with the group near the stage. And, you know, you'll hear people go, you know, I really just love the worship today. And I'm like, yeah, because you finally. It's finally broken through to you a little bit. And, you know, I. I get that sometimes we wish things could be this way or that way to our own preferences, but it's not about us in those situations. And that can be with all kinds of things within the church.

I'm gonna pet peeve real quick before you change topic. You, you, you keep saying worship music. I hate that phrase.

Worship.

Right. I hate the phrase worship music.

It's me because, because of the way.

You were using it. I hate it because, like, that's saying that there is a certain type of music in which we can worship through.

Right.

And that is not the case.

Well, that's true.

I mean, there is, there is a certain type of music that, that we can worship through, but, and, or there's a certain type of music that we can't really worship through. But it's not, it's not genre based. Right. It's not like, like, because I, I went to a, I went to Rock the River, which is in St. Louis, Missouri, one year, and Flyleaf was there.

Yeah, I love Flyleaf.

And the way she was worshiping on the stage was like, it changed how I viewed rock.

Yeah, sure.

By a lot. Because she was, it was her and God on that stage. Nobody else was there and she didn't care about anybody else. It was just her worshiping God through her music. And so, like, when you say worship music, it's one of those, it's a trigger for me because it's like, yo, are you saying there's certain music we can't do in church? And I know you're not, right?

No, I'm not trying to come.

But there's a lot of people who do that. And it's like, hey, hey, hey, hey. That takes away that heart posture mentality. Because what we need to do is we need to focus on the fact that if your heart is in the right posture, if you hear that rock song that is praising God, you're going to worship. And if there's a rap song that's praising God, you're going to worship.

Actually, I, I, I, I get into that so much. I love, I love any type, any, any style of music that I can praise God with. I'm all about it. Interesting.

Except for bluegrass. Bluegrass is gross. Sorry. Anyways, I was agreeing with you.

Except for bluegrass, I could do that anyway, so. No, I was really thinking about the fact, like, so this past holiday season, Skillet put out a rock version of Okoma Coming Manual, and I loved it.

It was not well received. Dude.

There were so many people that were.

So it wasn't, it wasn't for those people.

That was definitely not for those people.

You know, I had an issue with it. I had an issue with it at first and, and my issue was the, the, the Scream transition.

Yep.

I loved the after. I loved the before, sure. But the Scream Transition I had a problem with it was just kind of why. And I love Skillet. Like, if you ask anybody, one of my favorite bands, it's one of two favorite bands are Skillet and Thousand Foot Crutch. I love those two. And I mean, I really love Skillet and what John Cooper is doing with that ministry. But I had a problem with it. And then Lizzie was like, are you listening to what the lyrics are saying? And she was like, it is exactly. The feeling of the song is that it comes to that point where it's like, you know, that's the feeling. That Transition was the feeling being released. And I was like, whoa.

I heard it the first time I listened to it with my daughter. She and I went in Saul Skillet last year.

Nice.

And yeah, they were at Winter Gym. They were the closer. It was amazing. Yeah. And so I was like, hey, have you heard this? And I put it on and I was like, I love it. I think this is amazing. I feel. I love the feeling. I love when people put everything into their worship. I think that's what attracts me to that kind of thing. Whether it doesn't matter what the genre is necessarily, or style. Like, when I can tell that their. Their heart and soul are being poured out. Whether it is by screaming, whether it's by rapping, whether it's by just letting it flow from you. Oh, gosh, it's so moving to me. You know, there's been songs where I've even thought about how songs that people are used to, like singing in a church. Like, how they could have been in almost a. I wouldn't call it screaming, but like, in a more harder version. Because to me, like, I've listened to all kinds of music. And I listened to a lot of rock music growing up. And I still love rock music. But, like, there's something about people that just really get their.

Yeah, you can feeling out that, like.

I'm like, this song that. The one song, King of My Heart. Right. There's the parts of that song I'm like, that could be done like that. And it could be. So for some people, that could really help them connect. Because, man, there's something about it where there's just. Where it hits and you're like, man, the feeling. And I love that, you know? And you're.

Do you think all of Paul's psalms were like, oh, God, right? No, no. It's like, he.

He.

God, why have you, like, done this to me? Like, what is this? Like, Sorry.

I mean, sorry.

Yeah, I know that Spike. Everything but it's like that, that, I mean. Yeah, well, I mean, that's part of his too. I mean, that's part of the psalms.

You know, you're right. And I love that.

I mean, you just say paul writing the psalms.

I said, that's part of the psalms. Yeah, Paul did write or not Paul. No, David, wait a minute.

Anyway, so no.

Right.

But like we should be giving God everything. And some. There's something so beautiful about someone who's willing to take all of what they're raw feeling when it comes to God and just give it to him and oh my gosh, I love it so darn much. Yeah, that gets me hyped.

Like, too many people are taking their pre. The predispositions into it. So if, like I have a track on Spotify, like 200 songs that I just throw on while we're waiting for young adults to show up. And it's rap and it's contemporary and it's rock and stuff like that. All. You can almost set your watch by the minute. Something from like, let's say Wage War comes on or Skillet comes on, it'll kick on. You'll literally watch people just like look up into the rafters. Like, what is this? I'm like, this is rock.

And I've had people like, I don't know, change songs.

Yeah.

In the middle of like an event, just, just like hanging out. It's low and all that. And they're like, it's giving me anxiety. I'm like, that's not my problem to the song. Like it's.

Yeah.

So. But here's a, here's a, here's a. A little bit changes on music. A lot of process here. What about, like, what about your heart posture? Whenever somebody is non stop complaining and you're supposed to be there for them and be that, you know, person for them. You know. What, how do you, how do you handle that heart posture of you want to say get over it. You know, I mean, because there's times I think that that's appropriate. But I think that, you know, at some point, like, I don't know.

Well, we know, we know these people. Right. It's usually the ones who like every time they open up the altar for prayer, it's the same seven people who go up and their life is completely falling apart every single week. And it's the same complaint. And you're like, we've given you the answer and you're just not well, getting.

It could be that.

It could be all kinds of things.

Sure.

And the thing is, is that I think there's. There's a certain amount of what I'll call gentle honesty needs to happen of luck of this kind of calling a spade a spade. Like, hey, listen, this has been your common thing.

Yep. And.

But let's talk about why, you know, like, is this the problem, or is there something else? And we need to look into this. And so if you. You know, I want to walk in this with you.

You.

You know, we want to come alongside you in this. But what is it really? Because I don't think it's this anymore.

We actually had a situation with one of our. One of the people that were kind of in the leadership position, very faithful person, showed up all the time, was always there early, always helping. But then we started hearing about some of the things that they were saying behind the scenes. And so the associate pastor and I pulled him into a room, and we started talking. And it's like, look, you're showing up for you. Like, you're not showing up for God. You're showing up. So we all go, wow, look how great you are. And if all of a sudden the attention starts moving off of you, you start throwing a fit, you start acting out, you start trying to draw it. So you're doing this for the attention. You're not doing it for God. Like, and as soon as you back away from that and go, God's the reason I'm here. God's the reason I'm showing up early. God's the reason that I'm spending late nights counseling with people and stuff. If God's the reason you're doing it, it'll flourish. But if you keep putting. So your heart posture being. Your heart posture is I'm trying to draw all the attention to myself, and I want to be the big wig, and I want to answer the questions, and I want to be the hero, then you're gonna get incredibly frustrated because you're gonna feel like God's not backing you up.

So for that person, then that is like. I mean, because I feel this way a lot of times, too. I get. I get tired of people having that same complaint, whatever it is, you know, over and over again. And I'm. I'm the kind of person that at some point, I think you need to just get over it. Like, I'm. That I feel that way about a lot of things. Right.

But.

And I know. I know. I know that that's. That's a harsher thing, and I know that. That some people aren't built for that. And I get that, like. But the question that you need to ask yourself if you're in my shoes in that that instance is who are you here for? Right. Like you were saying, are you here for. For your wants, your needs, your desires, your thoughts, or are you being ever present for what God wants and what God's desires are? Because he may have you in front of that person that's complaining constantly so that you're the ear that is bending them or just listening to them or pouring into them instead of a somebody else who could, could be very bad for them or even nobody, which could be even worse.

Yep.

Right. So like we've talked about in the past, like that struggle of like, depression or whatever. And like, I mean, you could be that ear that is literally listening them off the ledge, you know, so your heart posture in. It has to be, why am I here?

Yep.

Am I here ready for. For God? Because we're supposed to worship God in everything. It's not just through music. Right? So like we're supposed to, in everything that we do, do it all for the glory of God. I would say, like, at some point if, if it just goes on and on and on, I think that God will call you to tell them in whatever way necessary, get over it.

Well, that does have to be a point where you say, we've been doing this for a year, we've got to be done.

I mean, going off what you said, there's people who convince themselves that they're doing one and they're doing the other. Because when you ask them, it's like, hey, they frame it as in, well, you know, this is going to help the church and this is what the church needs and this is what God. And this is good. And they do it. But what it really comes down to is what they're saying. And it's funny because if you push them hard enough, they'll get real close to being completely honest. Because if you're willing to go, no, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. We're not going to do that. I appreciate your input, but we're not going to do that. Eventually they'll get real close to going, but it's not what I want. It's not what I want. It's weird how much what they want is what they think is right for everyone else and for what God wants 100%. And I'm talking about every program, how we do Bible studies, how we do Tony smartenings, how we do worship, how we do Our kids ministries, how we do, our student ministries, what kind of kids we allowed in there, all the stuff that we do. And it's this. But this is what I want. This is how I think it should be. This is, you know, and if you don't give me what I want, then I can't be here anymore. It's like, well, this was never about you.

Amen.

This was about him, you know, for the people, like, and I brought this up a while ago, but, like, there's people that are like, well, you know, can't believe all these people are coming in here, or all these. These young kids with these attitudes and these problems. That's exactly who needs to be in here.

Yep.

It's not about you. If I know that you wish in your perfect mind that you could come in here and everybody be nice and dandy and maybe they all have a great job and some good money in their pockets and they all donate and everybody would be nice and wholesome and that all the kids would be perfect little angels. But that's not reality. And if it was that way, there'd be no reason for us to be there.

There would be no reason for the building. Yep. I actually had a pastor once who I was, who said that he had a lady come up to and say, you know what? I don't like there's these women who are walking around there, they're dressing like hookers, and I'm not okay with it. And he said, well, then what's going to happen when hookers start coming to church? Because that's who we're trying to reach.

You know, I love that.

Well, but at the same time, right. I wasn't talking about necessarily church. I was talking about the general person.

I'm talking about.

At the same time, right. There comes a point when that even. Even a youth. Right. Is going to become a cancer for the rest of the group and is gonna cause the rest of the group to. To fall. Right. And it is our job as leaders in the church to be overseeing that. Of course, now, if we're proactive from the get go, hopefully it will never get bad enough to get that point. Right?

But.

At some point, we may have to ask a kid to leave, and we have to be okay with that. As hard as it is, we have to be okay with that and adult as well. I'm not saying. Just kidding.

Oh, no, no. It's a difficult conversation where you have to go, listen, this. This is what we're here for, and I want you to be a part of it. But if you can't do. If you can't be a part of it, then you're not going to be able to be. This is the direction going. This is what I want. I want you here. I want you to learn. I want you to be part of this. I want you to experience God. All the things that I want you to be able to do. But if you can't, then you can't. I want this to be everything. And we want to talk about the things we're hoping to achieve when we're doing it. But if someone is just set out to be a cancer, eventually, well, a lot of times they'll. They'll see their way out.

Sure.

Especially an adult.

Not really.

No.

No, no, no.

There are plenty.

There are some that will see themselves.

There are some individuals that will try to just become so bad.

There's a lot more that'll do that.

Yeah.

Well, like you said, we've had our fair share. Yeah. There's others that are literally, I've watched them. You guys have met. One of them is the people who are kind of like, I'm not toxic. I'm not the problem. These are all the things that are the problem. I'm gonna stay here until they're fixed. And it's like, it's. Again, it's not about you. And there's a team of people who have overseen this church for however many years it's been. And their whole thing is, God told us to do this. This is why the sanctuary looks this way. This is why the worship sounds this way. This is why these groups are in place. Like, we had a period at Victory where we were really heavy into small groups, and then it kind of like, disintegrated because they said, this doesn't seem to be working in this season. We're not gonna do it. And we had this massive outcry. Not massive. We had some people. It sounded massive. Tiny percentage of people who are upset saying how the authority can sound. You guys are missing everything. Like, well, it wasn't working. Like, if there was a way that could have worked, then fine. We even did a thing for this. Back before we moved down here. They were doing a thing called Night in the morgue.

Right.

And so it was a kind of like, heavens Gates, hells flames. You guys familiar with that?

Okay.

Okay. Do you know what I'm talking about?

I think I know what you're talking about. Like, the haunted house. The Christian haunted house.

Yeah. So the whole thing was that people would go through it and at the very end, basically, there was this homemade movie that was done about showing about there were six people on a Halloween night and they all died. Five went to hell, one went to heaven. It was basically a way to. In a way, kind of shock you into, like, this is reality. There were dozens upon dozens of people who were like, that's black. You can't scare people into Christianity and that kind of stuff. And I remember the pastor coming back to them just saying, as soon as this stops working, we'll stop doing it. But people are literally giving themselves over to God by the hundreds.

You know, there's not. Every approach is good for every person.

Of course.

Sure.

But if approach can produce fruit.

Mm.

Then. And it's not sinful. I just gotta make sure that's part of it 100%. Then if it works, it works, man. Don't break.

I would argue. I would only argue against that with the idea that if God's calling you to do that.

Yeah, well, yeah.

I mean, because there's plenty of good things that we can do. We all know that there's plenty of good things we can do that we're not being called to do. That isn't the right thing. Right. Like, it becomes not the right thing, even though it's a good thing, because God's not calling us to do it. So I would say that the right thing for us to be doing is whatever God's calling us to do in the moment. So whether that's being ever present right here while we're having this conversation, or it's, you know, becoming a missionary in Africa, whatever that looks like. Right. Like, if we're. If we're presently following what God is calling us to do now, then I would say, yeah, absolutely. I agree.

I think there's.

If you're doing something that's good, quote unquote, and it can be good, but it's not what God's calling you to do now, then you might think about whether or not that's the best.

Yeah, well, like in the example, like. Yeah, there's. I've seen where groups fall apart.

Yep.

And at that point, I mean, even if it's one group, like, sometimes it's like. But we've always done this group.

Yeah.

But nobody's going anymore. Like, sometimes you do have to. You know, one of the hardest questions. I love this about Pastor Nick is when he got. When he was coming here, when they were interviewing him, he asked them, he's like, would you be willing to stop something that you're doing? Like, A ministry that you're doing that's working for something better. Like, and when they said yes, then.

He was like, okay, well, then, okay, right.

But like. But, like, I think there's something to that. It's like, yeah, this might be good. This might have worked. Maybe it's even still kind of working. But sometimes we can see that. Like, look, this is the season for. This is. I think it's time to stop this and move on to that. Yep. Or even take a break sometimes. That's an amazing thing that can happen not only to the people coming to groups, but to your leaders. There can be leaders that are incredible at running groups with certain materials, but sometimes they do it so much that they're kind of going through the motions more than you think and giving them a break and then sometimes bringing them back to that. And suddenly there's a new energy with it. There's a new faithfulness in it. And it's wild that sometimes that's a harder conversation than it needs to be. But. But the fruit of it can be what is the most important thing? Look, it's not that we're thinking you're doing a bad job. It's just that we want you to stop doing that.

Everybody needs a sabbatical for a while. For short, Sabbatical. But also, not everything is for everybody. Not every church is for everybody. We have to keep our minds set properly. So if the church isn't for you, this church, like, for instance, Rise. If Rise isn't for you, fine, let's help you find the right place. If where you're at is not for you, fine, try a different place. But at the same time, definitely be checking your heart in that too. But I think that we, too, often, our heart posture's not strong enough. Sometimes our heart posture is, oh, but we gotta try to keep these people here. Or, oh, but we gotta try to hang on to this. Or, oh, we gotta do that. Like, it's like, hold on. Sometimes. Sometimes we have to fight for what we feel like we're being called for, too. Like, and standing our ground. Like, there was at one point, there were several people that were like, you should. You should give up. Maybe you should give up the podcast for doing this other thing for a season. And I said, no. And I mean, it was as blatant as that. Like, I'm just not going to do that.

Yep.

I said, now, if God decides that it's time to be done, I'll know it. Right. But now is not that time. And so sometimes you have to dig your feet in when other people are telling you this isn't the right thing. When you're like, yes, it is.

I want to touch base on something you said and just add to it. So when it comes to maybe a church isn't where you're supposed to be. Also, be careful that we don't want to approach church shopping like we're going shopping for shoes.

It's not about.

Sure.

1. What we want to be looking for, honestly, is what it comes down to. I'm not a fan of church shopping, but I am a fan of this. So look for a place you can see. Number one, you can see God's in it. God's moving. Something is happening here. God is in the ministry. And that. And look, especially if you are looking to, like, I'll widen this just for a second. Like, if you're like, hey, I'd love to invest some money or donate some money to an organization, which one is the one to go to? If God is in it, you can see God is moving and he's using these people. Right? That. Okay, do it. You'll see the first buy into where God's working. But. So you want to look where is God moving?

Right.

Are you being fed there? Number two, like, when you go, is it. Is it pouring into you? And then also, is there. Is there a way for you to pour back into it?

Sure.

If those three are. Yes, yes, yes. Pour everything you have into that church.

Yep.

Everything you have.

And I've even told people before that the. It all comes down to. Look at the mission of the church.

Yeah.

A is the. So, like, Victory's mission is to save, to serve, to send. We're gonna find you. We're training you. We're gonna send you back out. Right. And if that's not something you want to be a part of, then you're gonna be really frustrated with how we do everything.

Right.

And so I've had people that come in just be like, well, I don't. I don't really agree with the way the church is doing this. I'm like, well, we're all funneling towards this vision, because that's the vision of Pastor Larry. That's what we're. That's what we're gonna do. His goal is to plant churches out in the world. That's his goal. If that's not what you want to do, let's find a church that you can fall behind and verify that they are, in fact, producing fruit. Are they accomplishing their vision? And is God behind It like you.

Say, that's what I constantly tell people too that are like, I don't know about this, like I, I feel like somewhere else is where I'm supposed to be. It's like, okay, I have no problem with that. I have no problem with you going somewhere else. In fact, I'll help you find a Bible believing church if you want help. I don't have a problem helping you find that. It's not going to hurt me if you leave this church. And that's whether you leave it angry or you leave it in good posture, it's not going to hurt me if you leave this church. I think a lot of times, I think our leadership a lot of times will have this mentality of, you know, well, we don't want anybody to leave. And then I'm just talking generally, I'm not necessarily talking about any specific church. But then at the same time the congregation sometimes gets this mindset of like, we don't want anybody to leave. You know, like the leadership must have done something wrong or whatever. And it's like, you know, sometimes, sometimes the people that leave, it's their fault.

Yep.

You know, sometimes, I mean, I'm just saying, like we have to understand our heart posture in this has to be what's God doing?

And sometimes people are being called to other areas. I've seen people that like, for some reason they love their church and then they find another place and it just felt more like home for some reason. They can't put their finger on it even. I'll tell you this, there was a time this guy Rick and I were running these men's groups and they, we grew them to pretty good sizes. I remember we got a group, it was like, I want to say 36 to 40 men that we would get together. I can't remember what day it is anymore because I've done groups on like almost every day of the week at this point. But, but I remember it was, it was going really well and I feel like we were proud of the group, but I feel like there was this. For him, I think it went a little bit further into the self pride of the group than he was willing to admit. And it came out in a moment where the group got real big and then we did this really big alignment with the church and then we started a whole bunch of extra groups. The church did. And then a lot of our guys split and some of them were doing, they went with groups with their wives. They tried out a new group. This one was like, oh, I really Want to do this study. And so what was interesting is that there was a moment where and I was in tune with it, but Rick was looking at me one day because we had our group got back together and there was so few men there compared to what we had. And he just looked downtrodden. I was like, what's wrong? He's like, man. Well, I just, there's just. And I said, you realize we did what we were supposed to do. We had guys that maybe weren't going to any groups at all that are now going to another group. We got guys that are now going to a group with their wives. We got guys that are going deeper. They're just not here. I said, we got them in a good posture and now they've gone out. I don't even think I use the word posture, but that's in my head right now. But we got them in the right place where they're now doing this. I said, we did exactly what we hoped to do. And I saw him kind of click with that for a minute and start to come to peace with it a little bit. But there was a moment of like, but it was so great and I loved how it was. And there's a bit of yourself you're putting into that now. It's like, it's not about the numbers we have. It's. Are we making the impact that we're looking to make? Is this a fruitful ministry? And the fruit was evident. Look, these guys are doing things now. This is exactly what we wanted.

But that's actually fascinating because yeah, I think too many people are just, they're focused on like, if it's working and God's behind it, it will never change. We're just gonna keep doing this and it'll just keep going. And it's like, no, no, no, no. That's not how God is.

That's not how God operates.

Same message, different method. Same message, different method. Alright, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Last thought was just the. It was funny. Is actually what I'm speaking on tonight as far as hodgepodge is not even remotely close to anything we say. But the one of the questions we got recently in a pastoral training was one of the person was like, hey, I'm in leadership. I'm supposed to like, when people come, I'm supposed to be real, I'm supposed to be raw. But I'm also supposed to put on this front like, I'm okay and God's got me and stuff. What do I do? And I had recently had a Conversation with one of the associate pastors where he's talking about how it's all about your upward inflection. It's my like, right? Like, hey, you know, Derek, how are things going? Like, well, to be perfectly honest, things are pretty rough right now, but God hasn't let me down yet, and I don't see him. Yes, it's not gonna happen. Right. So it's the upward inflection of. My life is garbage right now. That is true. And if you stop right there, then we goes, oh, wow. And then now you're pouring. You know, you're the bad fruit. You're contaminating the entire bucket of apples, as it were. But when you can, you always hit with, you know what? I'm struggling, but God hasn't let me down yet. I'm really excited to see what's coming.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. And that's important.

And I think of jelly roll.

Jelly.

Oh, yeah, dude, I'm not okay. Everything's gonna be all right.

I love.

Right. I mean, that's exactly what it did at the Grammys. No, I didn't watch that, bro.

Broke out a Bible and declared Jesus to everyone. I was like, yes, do the thing, man.

Do not go check that out.

That's great stuff.

He was like, jesus, I think you're.

About to call for last thoughts.

Yeah, it's time for last thought. Go ahead.

You.

You hit up last thoughts this time. I normally start with him, but we're going to start with you today.

Last thoughts. My last thought is basically this. It's time to do an inventory and see where you're at. You know, is God the most important thing in your life? Do you believe in who he is, what he can do, and do you trust him? If you do, then build everything on that, and you'll be surprised. No matter what happens, what you can get through, and what comes from you when the time is needed.

Nice.

Good stuff. Good stuff.

Nice and concise. Me, I would say, going to your hard posture and everything. Actually, our associate pastor Omar does this in depth. Lead class. And a couple weeks back, he did this whole thing where he basically had to start out outside and treat the building like the tabernacle. Literally went through every single step of the time, doing the sacrifices, the bread, the changing, the washing, all this kind of stuff, and going into the temple and kind of resetting our brain. Like we walk into here, some of us multiple times a week, several times a day, in fact, and you get to the point where all of a sudden this place is Common. Oh, that's just the sanctuary. That's fine. You can leave your trash over there. No big deal. And resetting our brains going, this is a temple where we're walking in and we are worshiping, like, the God of the universe. And, like, we have the privilege of walking in here. This isn't just our right. We just get to hang out, the kids get to run around, there's trash everywhere, and, you know, stuff like that. And it was. It was pretty powerful. And just going like, wow, I. I literally have treated this place like my own backyard. And, like, whatever, it's just a building. Who cares? And so that was really powerful for me. So coming into the idea of heart posture. What's your heart posture when you're walking into a building? Is it a place where you're about to do business or dump some drama or, you know, something like that? Or are you realizing that when you walk in here, this is where lives can actually change? The end.

Right on. Yeah, no, I. I hear you guys. I also think that, like, sometimes you need to get on your knees and ask God to sit back down on the throne of your heart. You know, Sometimes you just need to humble yourself, you know, because that's what it takes. It's rarely is it ever anything but pride that takes over whenever your heart is out of whack in its posture and whatever that looks like for you. I just. I pray that you guys will just be obedient in that. Routinely checking yourself, routinely saying, lord, I've sat down on the throne of my heart and I need to get up and let you have it again. That's it. And just remind yourself that he's God. You're not. And his ways aren't our ways and his thoughts aren't our thoughts, but he is placing those desires in our hearts that he wants to give us. There you go. That's good.

Well, I hope we answered her question about the well in the bucket.

I'm sure in some way we did. I'll have to reach out and ask.

No.

And we will continue. Yeah, I think this was pretty fun.

Yeah. So we've got nine people officially coming. Oh, we need the event.

That's amazing. Let's go do it again.

Yep, yep. Let's do another double that. Yep. Let's. And invite everybody. They don't have to. They don't have to even like podcasts. We're gonna be. This is gonna be live. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be. It's gonna be interesting. It's not Gonna be. It's not gonna feel like, oh, I'm listening on my ride to work, or, you know, whatever. It. You're gonna see people live. You're gonna, you know, be there live. We are not streaming it live as of right now. No, but it's gonna be live in person. Like, live used to be live recording.

Yeah, because if it's recorded live, if it's streaming, what, like, 40% of the people are just gonna be like, well, I'm just gonna watch it from home then. Yeah, watch it while I'm driving. No, don't do that. That's dangerous.

Exclusively in person and then will be put up later.

Fair enough.

Yeah. So it's more fun when you're there because then you can be part of the joke, number one. And number two, you can listen for yourself later.

Maybe even. Maybe even 250 is behind the Patreon wall. So regular people, if you miss it.

Yep.

Can't get it. I don't know. There's. Who knows? Who knows? So I'm just saying sign up for the free ticket.

Yep.

It's really expensive. All zero dollars.

Remind me how they sign up for.

That free ticket on Eventbrite.

Eventbrite.

Eventbrite.

So they go to Eventbrite and they.

Look for the truth response live.

Perfect. Easy now.

Pretty. Pretty simple. Seems straightforward. And it's here at rise Christian Church, 50 Bell Boulevard, Lehigh Acres, Florida. There are at least six people coming from out of town that I know of, so that are not.

All right, we'll start pushing hard.

So let's go.

The rest of you that are from here, sign up.

Come on, let's go.

Place it on your calendars. It's April 24th.

Listen.

April 24th.

We live in a culture where people go. If I don't respond, then they won't count on me. And if I show up, they'll be excited. And I'm trying to explain to people that's not how it works, because trying to plan. We're trying, like, we're putting this whole event together for you. And if you just choose on the day. I like. Ah, I'll go now. You're throwing a huge.

Think about it this way, guys. Think about it this way.

Look at your heart posture.

Think about it this way, y'. All. Like, I really hope that camera is.

Oh, that thing died, like, halfway through.

Oh, my God.

I forgot to say something. I'm sorry.

Did it.

It did. It shut down quite a bit.

I changed the battery.

Oh, no. Anyway.

Anyways, I changed the battery beforehand. Did you change the battery?

I did. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Well, now, guys.

Whoops.

This is gonna be very interesting.

It's gonna be partially videotaped. I'm sorry that we just realized this.

They're gonna be so irritated.

You know, I apologize. I saw it flip off, and I was about to say the camera died, yo.

All right, so we love you guys. Just. Just sign up. Think about it this way. We're gonna have price support, and there's less prizes if there's less people to sign up.

Amen.

Just saying. All right, look, hopefully this answered some questions. Sorry about the video kerfuffle, and God bless.