Welcome to real life with Mike and.

Jason as we kick off episode five of season one.

Mike, how you doing?

I'm doing great today.

How are you?

Oh, pretty good.

I can't believe we're already on episode five.

I know, like, we just started this.

Thing, which we did five episodes ago.

Yes, sir.

So our topic today is we've been going through the theme of voting this season.

Our topic today is going to stem really around the question, what if I don't like the candidate?

And so we'll be bringing that in with the biblical view.

And that really ties in a lot with the first or the second, rather, episode of how should we vote or should we vote as Christians?

There's a lot of tie in to that one.

But that's our focus today as we seek to address that question.

And obviously, we know the candidates for this voting season are former President Donald Trump and our current Vice president, Kamala Harris.

So there's not going to be any confusion on who we're talking about because those are the people.

We have this ear as our choices.

But again, this is going to be applicable at any point in an election because I think we all can understand how easy it is to take the approach of finding fault in people, especially people that are voting because they're all over the media.

We see them all the time.

Thinking through it, I was asking myself, why is it?

And we talked.

I think it was episode two about the statistic that I think it was 40 to 45 million.

Yeah, evangelicals don't vote.

And that still really bugs me as to why.

And just doing research and actually talking to some people that admittedly don't vote, really, it comes down to the topic we're going to talk about today as I don't like the person, I don't think they're a good candidate, or I don't agree with what they do.

And so the solution, or what they say, rather, the solution is I'm just not going to vote.

And I think it's important to remember Romans 13 says, there's no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

And the question is then, does God have his hand in who is elected?

The answer is very easily, yes.

He allows leaders to be put into position, just like he's allowed America to exist in this time of history.

And I get that it's hard when we're faced with choices of candidates that don't perfectly align with our value.

I think oftentimes people want someone who represents everything that they stand for.

They want to agree 100% with everything that they say and with what they believe.

But we're never going to find that in a political candidate at all.

We'll never 100% agree.

And I think that leads oftentimes to frustration and can lead us as Christians to disengage, whether it's because we're just tired of all the noise and the media coverage and all the division, or it's just because between the two candidates, we just don't agree 100% with either of them.

So our solution, again, is just not to vote.

And I think it's important to remember that.

So candidate's gonna be perfect.

We're not voting for Jesus here.

He's gonna reign and rule perfectly.

But that's not right now.

We're not there yet.

And so we are gonna have to vote for people that are imperfect.

Or you could take the approach of, I'm not gonna vote at all.

And I know you sent this to me, too.

It's.

We saw, I think, the same thing within a couple days of each other.

I was watching this video, and the author of this video gave three reasons or three things that a vote is not.

And I thought it was so perfect to fit in with what we're talking about today.

He started by saying that a vote is not a valentine.

And I'm like, man, that.

What do you mean by that?

That's such an interesting statement.

And so he goes on to say, Christians should never vote based on who's cool, cute, or funny.

But we often do.

So many times, who does the media like?

Or who's my favorite singer endorse?

It's a popularity contest where we look at the outward side.

But first, Samuel, God doesn't.

He looks at the heart.

He knows the heart.

And it's important to remember that we're not voting for somebody based on who makes us feel good.

Or I've even heard this person's got the same skin color as me, or this person's would be the first female.

And those are the kind of the points that we use as the reasons why we want to vote.

And so that's what he meant when he said the vote is not a valentine.

It's not a popularity contest, or at least it shouldn't be.

It is, I think, in many respects, for a lot of people.

In point two, he said voting for a candidate is not an agreement with everything the candidate says or does.

And I think, like what I was saying earlier, it's.

I think, a lot of times why Christians end up not voting is because they don't 100% agree with the views that candidate A takes or candidate B takes.

So the default is just, I won't vote.

Or they think that it's wrong for a Christian to vote for a sinful leader.

Every leader is going to be sinful.

We're all sinful.

And I'm just reminded when Jesus says, we're the salt of the earth.

And I know you've talked about this.

I've heard you talk about this from behind the pulpit before.

I've talked about it in our youth group that what is the point of being the salt of the earth?

What does it do?

And we know salt slows decay.

And we think about that's really the point is that when voting as a Christian, we're not asking who's free from flaws.

We're asking, or we should at least be asking, whose policies are most likely to slow societal decay.

And we know that no government's going to be perfect until God comes and reigns perfectly.

Point three, he said, too, is a ballot box is not a mailbox for you to send a message.

And I've actually heard this one a lot, just even recently, where somebody will say, I don't like either candidate, so I'm going to write in a third choice.

And Mickey Mouse, I think you said somebody who wrote Mickey Mouse on one.

Or my dad used to.

Yeah.

Or I'll be honest, I might be tempted to write Mike Ostheimer in there.

I don't know.

But same thing as writing Mickey Mouse.

Yeah.

But the point is we think we're sending a message.

And the purpose of voting isn't to make a point, it's to make a difference.

And so we will waste our chance to make a difference trying to make a point that nobody's going to read.

We've got two choices.

And so oftentimes Christians will think that we're doing a noble thing by writing a third party on there, but really we're just wasting our vote.

And what a unique opportunity we have to vote.

And when we think about it, when I was thinking about this kind of this morning as we were getting ready for this episode, we'll think that, I don't want to vote for this Republican or this Democrat because they're flawed.

But God put us and allowed us to be in a country where we can have a say in who's elected.

And it can be foolish then to take the approach of we're just going to not vote because God put us in a place where we can Vote where we can have a say.

And that's not normal.

That's not been common in the history of the world.

It's really, it is unique.

With that said, then, when evaluating imperfect candidates, because I think we both can agree that there's no perfect candidate.

We're all imperfect.

They're all imperfect.

Is there a wise way to do that, a biblical way to do that?

Yeah, I think right from the onset going back, we first talked about voting.

We want to develop what we always call a biblical worldview.

You don't want to make my decisions about everything in life, not just voting, but now we're talking about an election season.

And the sad thing is I was reading a LifeWay survey and it said that only 1 out of 10 Christians actually use the Bible to make their life decisions.

That was 10%.

Sad that less probably than 10% of people that would claim to be evangelical or bible believing Christians actually use the Bible to make decisions.

And that's part of the problem, obviously, you were just discussing.

I think we have to come back to scripture.

And I think you know the Bible right from the very beginning.

I shared this a few weeks ago in Genesis chapter one, verse 2728.

And God said he created us in his own image, in the image of God.

And then, you know, he said that he blessed Adam and Eve and he said to them, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and govern it.

You know, so I think governance is something that God built into even before the fall.

Definitely we need it after the fall because you think of the law of Moses.

The law was given to keep people in line until, you know, Jesus would come and he'll establish obviously his kingdom here on earth.

But we need laws.

And so it's important as believers that again we begin to think about what is a biblical worldview.

And then as you look at all the different things that come up for what we can vote in scripture, there's I think in an election year like this to say voting biblically.

What are based on the New Testament then?

And Romans 12:2 tells us not to be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

And so we have an opportunity to impact the world based on a kingdom perspective.

Jesus said, my kingdom's not of this world.

But he taught the disciples to pray.

And when we pray, he said, not my will, but yours be done on earth as it is in heaven.

And so the best that we hope for and we shoot for every day is to align ourselves and the world in which we live with kingdom principles.

And I think that's where a lot of Christians are missing the mark today when we think about this opportunity to vote and to make a difference.

And I hope that as we discuss this that we can draw out some of those things that can help people just rethink, especially from the standpoint.

This is why this topic came up today, because people are going, I don't like either candidate, so I'm not going to vote.

So is there something that we can say or at least show them from Scripture that would help Bible believing Christians go, you know what, it is a good thing for me to get involved, you know, in the election process because I recognize now maybe and the Bible uses ignorance, you know, as a word, not for stupid, but for uninformed, that there's just a lot of Christians who are uninformed about not just the responsibility but the privilege that we have to shape the world.

Because I think you brought it out and I hadn't really thought about this, but there's, with an appointment of a president, there's about 4,000 positions in the federal government that change when there's a change of presidency.

So you can see why when president, when Donald Trump, when he won and that was the thing that he ran his election on the first time, was he was going to drain the swamp.

Right?

Yeah.

And so we see that, you know, that there's a fear.

So if you're in the establishment and you've been in government your whole life, man, you'd fear.

And no wonder they call him a fascist and Nazi and everything else, because it's not because of him, but just by virtue of the fact that it'll transfer from a Democratic president to, if he wins, to a Republican president.

There's a lot of Democrats that are out of a job.

You know, again, these are just things that, you know, we have to be able to go, okay, what's the real issue here?

And so to look at this today and think about, you know, how do we make, you know, biblical decisions?

I think it's just a, it's the way we've got to approach it.

One of the issues we talked about this season was of being a voice for the voiceless.

We talked about the pro life and pro choice side of the coin, the arguments.

And so if just thinking personally in my own life, if I really believe that a B, an unborn baby is a human, is a life that deserves to be protected and stood up for, then how do I do that?

And again, like we talked about it during that Episode One of the ways we do that is we use our voice to vote.

Do I have a candidate that, and this is just one issue, there's many, right?

But do I have a candidate that believes that life is sacred and believes that life begins at conception or is closest to that as possible, versus another candidate who doesn't believe life begins at conception?

And takes the pro choice standpoint.

There's things that I can do, obviously I can pray, obviously I can talk about it, obviously I can go to abortion clinics and pray.

I can do all those things.

But one of the things I can do is vote, use my voice to vote.

And like you were saying, inaction or ignorance isn't an excuse.

You also, when you take Jesus words into consideration where he says that we're to love God first and foremost, that's the great commandment, right?

And the second flows from it, to love our neighbor as ourselves.

So we have this responsibility to not only think about ourselves and care for ourselves, but especially in voting, that we're voting.

You just mentioned it.

Just like in abortion, that issue, you go, why is that such a big thing besides the fact that we believe in the sanctity of life?

And you go, because as Scripture says, we're to speak for those that can't speak for themselves.

And there's a whole world out there that doesn't know what the laws are and doesn't know what government can and can't do.

And so Christians that, that are seeing this through a biblical lens understand we have a responsibility to care for our neighbor.

And I think again, voting is just one of the most amazing things that God has blessed us with, to be able to help our neighbor.

So you're not always voting.

Or they go, oh, there's nothing on there that concerns me.

And you go, no, but it concerns your neighbor.

Yes.

So.

So be aware of, you know, be sensitive to what's going on in the world around you and then vote accordingly.

Because that's biblical, right?

Love God with all your heart, your mind, your soul and your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

It doesn't get simpler than that regard.

Amen.

So then would you say that there's ever a reason, and I know this is black and white thing, but is it okay not to vote then?

Is there a position that a Christian can or should take where it would be wiser to set out and just say, you know what, I'm not going to do that this year.

When you look at just black and white of scripture, there is not one passage of scripture that says, yes, you're to vote.

Is there hundreds of passages that would tend to lead us to understand we have both the privilege and the responsibility to vote?

You go, absolutely.

You know, when the Bible was written, people didn't have a vote.

They were controlled by, for the most part, in the New Testament, the Roman government.

It was Pax Romana.

It was peace by decree.

You don't fight the government.

If you fight the government, kill you.

Yep, you go.

We live in a democracy, democratic republic in the perfect sense.

And we've been blessed with an opportunity to be able to by our founding fathers, who weren't deists, they were Christians that understood that there wasn't developed big government.

But was we the people by the people, that if you had people that love God and people that cared for people, that they would govern accordingly, they'd make decisions, good decisions that would be for the benefit of society.

And that was the whole point of having elections, was to be able to look at what, what's good for the world in which we live in, I.

Think through the consequences of not voting, too.

I talked to Christians and saying, man, this is just crazy.

I don't understand how we got here.

The abortion debate and the giving children puberty blockers and transitioning, and they're, they're appalled by all these things.

But they could be some of the same people that say, but I don't like either candidate, I don't want to vote.

And it's like, you can't have it both ways.

Either you use your voice, you have a say, or you're going to have to accept living in a country that you get what you don't vote for.

And that doesn't mean that voting guarantees that who you voting for is going to win.

But how do you make a complaint or an argument when you refuse to be a part of the process that can shape and mold, you know, the outcome of the government that you live in and in your elections?

Well, I think most people at that point, they're not even aware of what the issues are.

It's personality, governance is they don't like either candidate personally.

They go, well, they're not Christians.

I'm not going to vote for them.

Which to me is fascinating because prior to going in ministry, I worked, you know, in sales and, you know, for beverage companies.

And people could say, and there was things I didn't like about the companies I worked for, some of the positions that they held and sponsorships and things like that.

But what would all the Christians in the world do if they Researched every product that they bought in a store would buy nothing.

They'd end up dying of starvation, you know, because you'd go, oh, I'm not giving my money to support that.

That's worse than your vote, if you think about it.

You have a chance with a vote.

But when you're paying your money to a company that holds values in complete opposition to you, you go, what are you doing?

But yet almost 100% of believers are sponsoring with their pocketbook every single day.

And you go, man, we're doing this backwards.

I think such a good point.

And then I know.

I've also talked to people that.

And I've even thought this, especially living in California, if you're a conservative, you.

It can be discouraging then to vote in a state that, for instance, in most presidential elections, a Republican candidate will lose 10, 15, 20, 25 points.

And so it almost.

It can be easy, I think, to fall into the trap of a.

What does it matter?

Unfortunately, taking that approach nationwide leads to disastrous consequences.

And part of it comes down to trust and hope that God's in control and that he's sovereign and that God's ability isn't limited by human systems.

It's important to understand that trusting God with the outcomes is believing that he's bigger than the election.

Yeah.

And I think, remember, we're trying to develop a biblical worldview.

So what is the goal of all this?

For us, it's about sharing the gospel.

So when you think about in California, you go, what would my vote even matter?

Because we're going to lose.

And you go, it's not about winning everyone.

And with regard to salvation, how are people won to the Lord?

They're won one by one.

So every time we vote and every time we speak with people, you know, you said it earlier, Jesus said to us as the church, we are the light of the world.

We are the salt of the earth.

But if you think about it in the truest sense, what does that mean for the believer?

You go, every time that we have an opportunity to speak, we have an opportunity to magnify God.

We have an opportunity to let our light so shine before men.

Think of the apostle Paul.

Here he is in a judicial system.

He appeals there in Caesarea to Caesar, and it's to Caesar you'll go.

And so he spends the rest of his life going through the whole judicial system.

And he's so excited about it because every time he goes to court, he gets to lift up the name of Jesus.

Amen.

And I think if Christians Started looking at that, you know, as opposed to, oh, there's no hope for us.

You go, no, somebody's going to hear you.

Somebody's.

If you're seeking to magnify God and you're sharing with people just like the sanctity of life, you can go, you know, it doesn't even make any sense to me.

A woman's right to choose murder.

You're going.

Because everything becomes a talking point, right?

And then if you just stop people for a second, you go, wait a second, what are we talking about here?

This is a baby.

This is a baby that has a life of its own.

And then you get down to other issues.

They go, they can't afford it.

You go, okay, that's a different issue.

And so, again, that gives Christians an opportunity to engage.

But if we're not.

And I guess the bottom line it comes back to is you go, if we're not studying to show ourselves approved to God, you go, then we're gonna be silent because we go, I don't even know what to say.

And you go, just peel the whole thing back.

You go, are you loving God and you loving people by the choices that you make?

And you go, if not, you probably want to rethink, you know, your theology and rethink your vote.

Yep, absolutely.

And I think, too, as you were saying, that it's, you know, as a Christian in California, if I know that I'm called to be a light, as you were just referencing, and part of the way I can do that is how I vote.

It makes no sense.

If I'm called to be a light in a dark place, my response shouldn't be, there's too much dark.

I'm just going to turn my light off.

It doesn't make any sense.

We still have to be voting, even though we might be, I don't know the word I'm looking for the minority, if you will, for lack of a better word here in this state, certainly makes no sense to say, I'm just not going to vote.

Because it's still an opportunity to.

Yeah, and even in a state just say we were a red state, it's still about refining.

As iron sharpens iron, so does one man, the countenance of his friend.

Remember as I shared that quote, the first go round we talked about voting was Dr.

King.

And here we are talking about the rights of people.

And I just remember it was such a profound statement.

And he said that the church must be reminded that it's not the master, the servant of the state, but Rather the conscience of the state.

It must be the guide and the critic of the state, never its tool.

And that's again the salt of the earth, like you said, is that we go in and we testify that they're not reading the Bible, but we are.

So we're taking the Bible to them.

To a world that doesn't know the Scriptures.

We talked about this earlier.

Some people go, yeah, I believe the Bible's inerrant, but I don't believe the Bible's sufficient for today.

So it's through the voting process we have an opportunity to show people that the Bible is sufficient for governing our lives.

Matter of fact, if people would make their vote based on a biblical worldview, it's pretty safe to say the world would be a much better place today.

Even people who don't love and serve Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord because the Bible says with regard to our love, right, is that you don't just love people that love you.

It says love your enemies.

Right.

Look at politics today.

We just talked about it before we started how evil this last couple weeks is going to be on both sides of the equation of just blatant attacks and for the most part lies.

Just things that are embellished and taken way out of context.

Because fear is a great motive to get people to vote.

But yet we come from the side as Bible believing Christians.

There's no fear in love, for perfect love casts out fear.

I don't.

In the truest sense, does it matter to me and you who's in the White House?

No, no, Jesus isn't on the ballot.

Jesus isn't going, hey, make me king.

He already is king.

Yeah.

And from the power of the world our prayer is, lord, by kingdom come, thy will be done.

And especially a couple of weeks to the election here, there is a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety.

And so just in, in closing, I want to remind just you and me and our listeners of Philippians 4, 6, 7.

And that encourages to don't be anxious about anything.

But in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God.

And peace of God with which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

And our encouragement to you as you go to the ballot box is pray seek God, seek him in his word.

And then as you're looking through your options, who's going to slow the societal decay of America?

Who's going to honor God the most in their policies?

And remember, it's not a vote or vote isn't a Valentine.

It's not a popularity contest.

It's not whose hair you like better, who's the right gender.

It's about who will bring honor, who will most closely bring honor to God through their policies.

Because it's not just one person.

It's 4,000 or so appointees to the whole administration.

And by voting for somebody, we're not voting and saying that we agree 100% with every position they take and just we won't find a candidate that we agree 100% with.

No, even if Jesus was on the ballot, think about that.

He was perfect.

He loved, perfectly served, per everything he did was perfect.

And yet he was crucified.

We still rejected him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And thirdly, a ballot box is not a mailbox.

It's not the way we send a message.

There's going to be one of two only one outcome in this election.

For instance, it's going to either be former President Donald Trump or current Vice President Kamala Harris.

There's not Mickey Mouse.

There's not any third candidate.

That's just a waste of your voice.

So hopefully that blesses you guys.

And Mike, anything else before we close this episode?

Just one other verse of Scripture, just always to keep in mind as we think about the elections.

From Jeremiah 29:7, it says, and work for the peace and the prosperity of the city where I sent you into exile.

This earth isn't our home.

So we're here until the Lord comes against us and said, pray to the Lord for it and for its welfare will determine your welfare.

And so I think it's just a great reminder, as you've said, that, you know, we just need to be praying for our country.

And if we just did that consistently, heck, even for the church, it'd be a lot.

We'd be in a lot better place.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you for joining us and we will see you for our last episode of season one next week.

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