dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hey everybody.
We've got a great guest today.
His name is Brett Hoge.
He's an inspiring visionary who's transforming workplaces as the
co-founder of better Culture, from his roots in a five time number one,
best place to work to creating the game, changing 20 tenets of culture.
Brett has got some stories that'll spark your passion for building,
uplifting, thriving teams.
You don't want to miss.
This incredible conversation.
Welcome to the last 10%.
Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations
that will inspire you to finish well and finish strong and strong.
Listen, as guests share their journeys in valuable advice on living in the last 10%.
If you are a leader, a coach.
A business owner or someone looking to level up, you are in the right place.
Remember, you can give 90% effort and make it a long way, but it's finding
out how to unlock the last 10%.
That makes all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.
Now here's Dallas.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
I am Dallas Burnett, sitting in my 1905 Koch Brothers barber chair.
In Thrive Studios, but more importantly today, we have a great guest.
He's the co-founder of Better Culture.
He's a true champion of healthy, joyful workplace cultures, which, you know,
we all want that here at the last 10%.
And was it innovative?
20 tenets of culture program.
Brett's helping organizations empower employees and strengthen
teams and create workplaces that.
Feel your bucket.
So I know that you guys are excited about this incredible conversation.
Welcome to the show, Brett.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Hey, excited to be here.
Thank you.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: ha.
it's always fun to, to talk to someone that, that understands and shares the
same values and really gets it and you do with the culture and what your
approach is to culture and shaping culture and organizations and your experience
about creating great places to work.
So let's start by just sharing with the listeners, like how does one go?
to become a culture champion and start seeing how much culture matters.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it just starts with, I'm wearing
the t-shirt for a reason here that says Culture matters, right?
it starts with understanding that
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Culture matters not just to business,
but it matters to quality of life.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: for, quality of life, for employees,
for managers, for spouses and
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and it matters for business performance.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: one of the things that I'm excited
about coming on your podcast for is I love this concept of the last 10%,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: often feel like when people don't.
Most people don't understand how much value there really is.
They say the word culture, but they don't really understand
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: mm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it adds real value both to
business and quality of life.
And I think catching understanding that is how you start to
become a culture champion,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah, I think so.
I mean, tell us, tell us a little bit about your background and your career
and, how you got to where you're today.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: shout out to my father, Dr. Kim Hoge.
he started a company in the Omaha, Nebraska area.
I'm from Omaha, and that organization, it was called QLI, it's a very
specialized healthcare company.
But year after year after year, they became, voted the number one best
place to work in the entire city.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Wow.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and during that time, I was in middle school,
high school, went off to college, et cetera, and did not have an appreciation
for really why that mattered so much until I graduated with an engineering degree,
went off to get a job, and I realized, oh.
The world of the real world of work is nothing like what I heard my father
talking about for 20 years over, over the dinner table, you know, as a CEO that
put culture as the number one priority in his business every single day.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Wow.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: thought that's what every CEO
did, what every company was like.
I found out, holy cow, there's a big gap between what I thought was, you know, what
work was and what mattered in companies versus what I saw in the real world.
and I said, holy cow, we gotta close that gap.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah, no, that's, that's really good.
I mean, I can't imagine, walking into your first engineering team meeting and going,
wait a minute, this doesn't feel exactly like what I, what I thought it would.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and I think so many.
Unfortunately, so many leaders inside of companies, they haven't worked
in, in, let's just say a world class.
Okay, that's a high level,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: worked in a world class company
and culture, you just don't even know what you're missing.
You just think, oh yeah, we show up, we do work.
We, you know, if, if someone's not meeting expectations, we yell at 'em
a little bit and you know, we don't.
Get to know each other and we don't.
This isn't fun.
This is work.
come in and do your job and what a terrible way to spend,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: 40% of your life, in my opinion.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think that's a really good thing
to say because again, if you haven't experienced what it feels like to be
a part and be inside of a world class.
Company culture, then really you don't even know what to compare it to.
and you had that experience with your dad and seeing what it was like to lead
a team that was, best in class, right?
World class in terms of creating culture.
But some people they get up and that, and if you had not had that experience and
you came and you grew up and your parents were working somewhere, they were, and
they were not happy with their culture and it was just like the way it is what
you get up and you grumble when you go to work and you're glad to come home and you.
You max out your vacations and you try to get off as much, as much as you can and
you're like, you know, 'cause that's work.
and so if that's the, if that's the mindset that you had grown up in,
then when you went to that first job or second or third with engineering
or whatever, you wouldn't even know that you were missing anything.
'cause you were like, yeah, it stinks and Well, you know,
it's 'cause it always does.
'cause my parents said it did.
On the flip side, you had that.
I think, I think that's really great.
Well, you've, you've made a comment about growing culture from the bottom up.
I'm curious to see and hear your opinion on that because, obviously
I agree with that a hundred percent.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Yeah.
I wanna talk about that.
if you don't mind, I wanna mention, you said parents,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: grow up and they learn from their parents
or from their support systems that like work is almost like a necessary evil
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: are inherently bad.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: to give you the perspective from one person.
Who grew up being taught exactly the opposite.
I mean, every single day of my life, my father would say, he would say,
what you wanna do in your life and who you wanna associate with is
people who say, thank God it's Monday.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the opposite of the narrative.
And because when he was building a company, he was building a culture.
That's what he preached.
Like we, we want people that are excited to be here every single day.
And there, there is a subset of people that feel that way, right?
And
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: A hundred percent.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: have a great culture, talk that language, look
for those people, and help everybody else realize you don't have to hate your job.
Like there's a totally different way to go about
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I love how you said that he preached
that every day because that is so true and I think that if you're listening
to this, don't miss that point.
that the great world-class cultures don't happen on accident and
you've got somebody at, somebody in leadership is doing exactly what you
just said and that is preaching it.
Every single day, because we're always needing that reminder.
We're always needing that shape and perspective, and we're battling
for those beliefs in ways that really shape how people think.
and you have to, I share this example all the time.
Ford Truck doesn't tell every 16-year-old, boy that they need to buy a pickup truck.
And then they tell 'em when they're 16 and they never.
See 'em again, No, they tell you every time you turn on a
television that you gotta go buy a Ford truck or buy a Ford truck.
So it's this shaping of your perspective.
I think that's so critical.
I also think that.
it's so important too because when you talk about people loving their
work, I mean, we believe, and when we preach this as well, and that is,
is that we're created for a purpose.
And if you're finding and living in that purpose and you're delivering value,
you're gonna be so much more enthusiastic when you come to work because you feel
like you have value, you're contributing to something that has value, and
that is leaving a mark on the world.
And you're doing it in a corporate team environment.
That's fun, man.
that should get everybody excited, you know?
Should get everybody excited.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it should.
sorry, I just wanted to take a call back with you right there because
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: wanna miss that.
Right.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that it's people's perception of what work
is that is where your culture starts.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: And, you've gotta overcome.
It's like what you were saying, people, there are a lot of people that don't
have that perspective because they may have not been given that idea,
they've not been sold that vision.
And they may have got, they may have grown up in a household where their
mom and dad didn't like going to work.
And so as a leader, it's not saying that.
if they don't walk in the door and they have that understanding that
you're like, you're outta here.
No, it's saying we are taking that responsibility on as a leader to project
and to infuse and everything else.
We're gonna shape it.
And so that's our goal.
So I love that.
Let's talk about that from the bottom up.
So how do we start building and growing our company culture?
Bottom up.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Yeah, this is the most exciting
thing in my world here the last couple years for a decade plus.
We've been working thinking top down in organizations.
when a, when an organization, whether that's at a, the C-suite or the manager
of a team, when they say, Hey, look, I know culture matters and I want to make
improvement there, for the last decade.
perspective has been great.
Let's talk about what leaders need to do to make that happen, right?
and we teach a whole curriculum.
We have a lot of great philosophy around that.
a few years back, probably three years ago, even with our best clients that
we had our deepest engagement with 85, 90% of their employees, like we just
never had a chance to make an impact on or to communicate directly with.
We'd work with leaders and say, Hey, it's your job to now build this culture.
we started asking the question well.
What would it look like think about how you could help an organization
build a healthier team and healthier culture from the bottom
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the every employee perspective.
Take the onus a bit off of leadership and say, how could people lead from
any seat in the organization to create healthier teams and cultures
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I love that.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: That led to a bigger project than we expected.
we spent probably six months, looking at best practices, research, investigating
our best clients, trying to figure out, what is it that a superstar employee does
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: organization across the board.
if an employee comes up, and I'm not talking technical expertise, but attitude,
behavior, all those types of things.
What is sort of the description of a universal star employee across industries
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: As we got closer and closer to
figuring that out, spoiler, we ended up with 20 attitudes and
behaviors that we call our 20 tenets.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: When we're looking at the
research we were finding, oh yeah.
Like it's almost like a universal set of core values that, that
across organizations, everybody would say, these are great things.
What we didn't expect is that before we finalize that list, we found corresponding
research that says if people will learn these 20 attitudes and behaviors.
Okay.
Which I'll share some of in a minute,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: They will be more happy and
more successful personally.
So forget company culture.
Forget team health.
We did not expect that there would be such a correlation between these
behaviors that contribute to great, healthy, bottom up cultures and
personal success and happiness in life.
And
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: A hundred percent.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: was this correlation, we said,
okay, all 20, whatever number it comes out to be, ended up 20.
We have to be able to say, if employees will lean into these behaviors,
not only is it good for teams and cultures, but it's good for them.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: what has gotten me so jazzed up and excited
about these 20 tenets that we created.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think that's so true.
And you hear people say all the time, I was talking to a manager,
a years ago and he was telling me, he was like, I don't care.
You know what you did last night or at home.
I don't care if your kid is sick.
I don't care nothing.
He said, I don't care if you're having you come into work and
I want you to be like this.
That's how I want you to be.
And when you go home, you can be however you want.
And I just was like, oh, I was just shaking my hands.
Oh God.
Because it's this idea of you're one person at home and
you're one person at work.
and I agree.
I understand that there's pressures and challenges in both arenas.
And I'm not saying that you're exactly the same, but I am saying that there is
a level of integration that goes there.
You are the same person if you're struggling at home, if you and your
spouse are having issues, or your kid is sick, with a. chronic illness
or something, there's no way that does not affect your performance.
And if you're like, beat down at work or if you've got some kind of issue
going at work and there's some massive stress going at work, there's no way
that you're not taking that home.
And so this integration of the two, I think that you bring your whole self
to your work and you bring your whole self home, and we've gotta figure
out a way that whole self is healthy.
and thriving and living in that last 10%.
So I love that.
I love that idea.
And the 20 tenants sound like really great.
So let's talk about a couple of those.
I wanna specifically, because I like having fun, right?
Like this is good.
And a lot of companies they don't know, I. They don't know
that they're not having fun.
they're in a grind and they think it's normal.
You're an engineer.
I'm a chemist.
We know this.
You go in the room, you're like,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: well
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: my gosh, is this a morgue
or is this a business?
what are we doing here?
And so I. if we're having a good time and we're enjoying our work, it's
gonna be something that comes out.
It's gonna just become something that comes out.
So you've said in uplifting work culture is really critical and
you know who doesn't wanna work?
who wants to work somewhere that doesn't fill your bucket and you've got a couple
of tenants like upbeat and saying thanks.
how would you talk about the importance of that idea in filling your bucket at work?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Well, so you mentioned upbeat,
you mentioned, saying thanks.
the 20th one.
And it does, it's not a tag, we don't mean it as a throw on, but our last
one is called Laughing matter too,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: at work.
Right.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: being upbeat in general, I have come just
personally to value this trait in people.
the further I go in life and the more people that I meet.
I don't wanna spend time with somebody that's in a bad mood.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so take this outside of work, right?
Let's
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: about your personal life.
Why the heck would I wanna spend my time
gripe and complain?
I have no interest in that.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: No.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: up call for people, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: if you think that
complaining is conversation.
not to me.
It's not right.
And so, uh, I just have no interest in that.
It's just a drain on my time and resources.
I'm just sitting there trying to say, can I help you?
Would you like me to solve these problems?
Oh, you don't want any helpful advice?
Okay, great.
Go talk to somebody else.
Right?
And that's just in your personal life and relationships.
It's draining to be a glass, half empty kind of person
versus a glass half full person.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: It's good for you to be more upbeat because
it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you say, I mean, I'm not big into
manifesting and things like that's
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: exactly,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: do think what you talk about,
what you notice, it becomes reality and affects your mood.
It affects, you
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: overall quality of life.
I think when people aren't getting coaching to be a little bit more upbeat,
to smile a little more often, to have
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: don't take yourself so seriously.
people in.
All across the world.
But in, in North America, there's a lot of data that shows people are
more stressed than they've ever been.
people have more anxiety, more
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: et cetera.
There's all kinds of complicated reasons for that.
But if you can get at just generally being more upbeat,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it's right on the nose of
improvements in quality of life if you're genuinely more upbeat.
And I think we should be talking to people about that in the workplace.
Like your mood affects everybody else.
Your vibe affects the tribe, right.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah, the vibe affects the tribe.
I like that.
I'm writing that down.
It's good the.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: show up and be a little more upbeat.
And, the clients that I've worked with that have the healthiest cultures,
like I have one client, they have three core values, one of them is positive.
I. They mean it.
if you don't show up and you're not positive, they coach you about it.
give you some grace.
they'll try to, to help you move along.
But ultimately, if you're like IOR showing up to work and you're just, you know,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: oh, woe is me all the time.
They're gonna say, look,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: You don't fit here.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: you here.
You know, like we want people who are positive, and be real.
if you're having a rough day, great, no
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: But every day can't be a rough day,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: exactly.
I like that.
I like the vibe.
Affects the tribe.
I like that.
I like that saying a lot.
Tell me, have you seen, speaking of this kind of upbeat and having
fun, with the companies and examples that you've got, do you have.
Some specific examples and it might be so specific because it's in a certain
company or a certain office or whatever, but you have some specific ideas of
some things that you've seen companies do that help them have a good time,
that has really worked well for them.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: You know, I'm a big believer
in like decentralizing fun,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: don't, it depends on the
size of the company, right?
If you're an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial startup or whatever, like I guess the big.
Point for me is I'm not great at planning a party
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Right, right.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: And so you can think of that every day being
fun or a quarterly offsite or whatever.
I just know that's not my strength.
And
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: what I will do as a leader or as a manager,
is I will specifically tell my fun people
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Please do that.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the fun.
Please make every team meeting more enjoyable.
Please, find something entertaining for us to do at our offsite, you know, et cetera.
What you will find is in any good sized team, there are there,
there's a few people that are just naturally enjoyable, entertaining.
People gravitate toward them.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: ask those people in a normal work setting,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: tell a joke, when they have
some fun, they say, do you think your company appreciates that?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: those folks will go, ah, I don't think so.
I think my boss thinks it's a distraction.
I think my company thinks, if you're, if somebody's laughing,
then we're not working.
those kinds of things.
And so as a manager or as a business owner, unless you explicitly say, I. we
value fun and we value our fun people, and we even ask them to try to make, every
day just a little bit more enjoyable.
They will tend to think they're not supposed to do that.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and that's a travesty, honestly.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think that's great.
I got, there's so many things that come off of that when you say that
because I, I agree that you need to find your fun people and give them the
freedom to be fun and have fun, and then infuse that fun in other places.
Because if they're naturally fun, but they feel like that, just like what
you said, they feel like they're look down on for having fun, then that
is not gonna be contagious because they're gonna always be restrained.
So what you're saying is, I think the two things that I'm taking away is number one.
Delegate.
don't be afraid to delegate.
And by the way, if you wanna book on that, there's a new book
out called Caveman Delegation.
It just released in March, and it's by yours truly.
So, uh, delegate the fun to someone who is fun.
And number two, give them the freedom to do that, in a way that can be contagious.
You wanna unlock the contagion?
let it out.
Let it out.
I think I've got a couple examples I'll share, and I'm gonna totally
steal this from a, a friend of mine who gave me this example.
Actually, I think he was a part of both of these.
His, I'm not even gonna say his name, but his initials are kb. So KB man, if
you're listening, appreciate this content.
But when he was working at a technical service organization, they were going
out in the field and they were doing this real technical task and they were
taking these measurements in these rooms.
And what him and his, his, team members would do is they created something
that was, like essentially a golf game.
Like if you could take this measurement and you did it the
first time, that was like a birdie.
If you had to take it twice before you made the adjustment and got it right.
It's par if you did it three times as a buggy.
the better the score, the faster you were moving, but you had to get it right.
So they set up this whole game.
Now this was not company sanction, they're just going out there and
every day it's for bragging rights of who's doing this, activity.
And, and they did it in their job just having a game.
They were just making it fun.
And it was just technical.
Kind of could be seen as monotonous and they turned it into something.
they're, laughing and, whatever, but they're doing it in a way
that's actually making them.
They were one of the most productive teams out there.
And so the other thing I think is,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: are.
I
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I can't cite a very, a specific study
off the top of my head, but I will tell you that there is this misconception
that, if we're laughing and having a good time, we must not be working.
I. That is absolutely incorrect.
The
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that are having the most fun, that
are laughing, that you know that who are really enjoying each other's time
are often the most productive teams.
There is an absolute correlation between enjoyment, laughter,
fun, and productivity.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: is not the other way around.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah, well, I mean, you look at any
sports team out there, either football or basketball, and you got one team
that's, high fiving and slapping each other on the back and they're putting
their hands up, making shots or scoring touchdowns and they're having a good time.
Or you look at the other team and they're all tense and they're like
trying, they're all just, yeah, it's like it's night and day difference and
who's gonna score and win the most, the people that are most having the most
fun that are in the flow, you know?
'cause you can just kinda get in the flow and you can perform at
that level when you're having fun.
I think another thing that he did.
there was a Christmas party and it was just like, you know, we're gonna,
we're gonna do, it was a Christmas party and it was just like, we're
gonna work in the background and we're gonna give a couple awards.
And it was like, that was it,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Mm-hmm.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: and it's fine.
Look, had the dinner, got the award been done, it was fine.
How.
Ever, Mr. Fun, Mr. Kb comes up and is Hey, I got this idea.
And it's what?
He's I think we should do the 12 days of Christmas.
We'll steal the microphone from the band.
We'll get like 12 of us.
We'll rewrite it and we'll write each one Punking, somebody in our
team like just, you know, It's just fun, you know, fun gesture.
But we're gonna say just something fun about him.
And, I said, bro, that sounds awesome.
And so he, sure enough, he goes and gets a couple guys.
They come back with the 12 days of Christmas rendition for this
company, with the team that's in the room for the Christmas.
It turned out to be so hilarious.
Somebody videotaped it and the company put it on their front TV and played it after
Christmas for like a year, just on repeat in the lobby because it was hilarious.
And so that's just somebody, it's exactly to your point, it's delegating
fun to somebody who knows how to have a good time and freeing them up
to be themselves and be contagious.
And I think your point is so spot on and it's, it can be in the mundane and it can
be in the moments like a Christmas party that you should like, make it special.
take this, take the mundane and make it fun, and take the, take special
moments and you can make those fun too.
And I think those are memories, So both times I think you can increase funds.
So I love your idea.
I love the te about having fun and, I think that's great.
Really good stuff.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it's simple, but it's
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah, simple.
let's talk about some more.
I'm interested because your 20 tenants kind of want to create, a common language.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Mm-hmm.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: have you seen instances where people are buying
that in and they're using that, in their company where it helps them give them a
basis to, to grow and shift the culture?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I have.
Yeah.
in order to answer that, I want explain, the way I think about these
20 tenets is really on three levels.
Okay.
And the first is just a, it's a philosophy.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: philosophy that says it is
possible to build healthier teams and cultures from the bottom up.
And that means any and every employee can and should do these things to lead from
their position, to build healthier teams.
To build themselves, right?
So
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: philosophy piece.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: level above that is that what we've
built with 20 tenants is a set of tools.
there's a, there's an assessment video for
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: There's a coaching video for each
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: there are discussion exercises.
There are like all kinds of things that you can use as a set of
tools to encourage growth along these 20 employee attitudes and
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Ah, okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: The third level is, this is only for
like our enterprise clients, but we built it into a software like if you
wanna operationalize this and not have any administrative overhead, and just
make sure that there's some continuous coaching happening inside a system.
You know this, you have a great
a coaching product
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Software can take the lift off
of managers and everybody else to make sure that people are doing
these things consistently over
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yes, a hundred percent.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so I wanted to mention that because, there's
this idea, right, that, yeah, if we invest in our people and their individual skills
in the right direction, it builds culture.
And then there's like the tool piece, the level two, which
is, okay, so how do you do it?
Right?
And what I have found is Let's correlate this to core values, okay.
In an organization, many organizations have core values,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Oh
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: those core values are somewhat similar
to our 20 tenants usually, right?
It
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: something that is, it's a desired
attitude or behavior, hopefully for employees to show up and do,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: But they don't get a lot of value from those
core values because they don't do a few obvious things that, when we re-looked
at this and we said, how do you build a healthier culture from the bottom up?
We said, well, first you gotta identify the right behaviors.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: And we did that with these 20 things.
Maybe you've done it with your core
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: What's the step after that?
Well, here's what most teams and organizations miss, have
you adequately assessed?
of your employees are excelling on these core values and which are not?
where do people currently stand?
Right?
So you know where you want to go, but you don't know where you are, right?
So there's an assessment piece.
There's a, we gotta have conversations about are we living these values or not.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: thing that we do, and we help our organizations
suggest is we have 20 of these things.
We just think since it's in people's self-interest to get better at
these, we ask people to pick two.
they get to pick which two of these do you wanna work on?
Which
wanna make progress on?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: for your own benefit, right?
in addition to the team's benefit.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: we try to give coaching content,
suggestions, discussion, activities, all sorts of ways that people can make
progress hopefully over the course of a year on the things they wanna work on.
And so
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: to get more specific, but I first wanted
to paint that sort of framework for you
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: we conceptualize like.
if you have clarity on these attitudes and behaviors, what does it actually take to
drive steady and continuous improvement?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah, I think that's a great thing.
I like several things that you said about that.
Number one, just identifying clarity is fundamental and key.
And I think you're so right.
And I've had this experience as, as well.
When you go into a company and they've got organizational values or company
values on the wall, and then you go to the first office to the left and you say,
all right, can you tell me those, Five values out on the wall, and they're like,
oh, well, and they might get one or two, you know, and you can tell that, that
it's not saying that they don't believe that or if they don't want that, it might
be aspirational, it might be actually lived, but it might just be aspirational.
And the problem is when you point to that and you say, if your value
is this, tell me three examples of how you live that value.
Every single, and whether you ask the CEO or whether you ask an employee if they
can't, if they don't have some things that they're intentionally driving or
intentionally how they've structured certain things, like if you, if one
of your own values is developing your employees and you don't even have a.
A, a learning or coaching system in your organization, then then you may
not value that might be aspirational.
So you, if you want to value that, then you've got to figure
out how you're gonna integrate activities into your organization
and individuals, like you said.
Which I think the second thing is really focusing on one or
two things to, to improve.
Because again, I love the 20.
Tenets, but you can't eat the elephant in one bite.
So I love how you say, Hey, look, we're gonna take it back.
We're gonna say, I need to focus.
What's gonna be most meaningful to me in our organization is if I focus
on these one or two things, and I'm gonna get better at these when I get re
when I really perfect this, then we're gonna move forward and do the next two.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so like you give the example, you go
down the hall, you pop into an office.
Let's say you talk to some employee named Bill in some
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Okay?
And you say, bill, what are the core values?
And Bill, bill scratches his head and says, ah, I have,
maybe there's one or two.
He can kind of sort of name.
Here's the question.
I'm a big believer in continuous improvement across all different
aspects of business and culture should be no exception.
And so here's the question.
Does that company, even if they have great core values, even if they would
be valuable, if people embrace them, do they have a plan to make sure Bill is
getting better on any of those values?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Exactly.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: is no, they don't.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: how hard would it be to say, bill, what's
your strongest core value of ours?
Which one are you best at?
Which one are you worst at?
And which one do you wanna work on?
And then actually to give him some content to say, how could
I get better at those things?
How could I make progress on the one that I wanna work on?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: teams and companies, cultures aren't
getting any better is 'cause they actually don't have a plan for improvement.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Right.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: And so that's what we've tried to
build with this 20 tenets is like
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: identify what a star employee
would look like, and then.
Build a process that actually helps coach people
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: everybody to get better and
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I love that.
I think that's really great.
I love the system, systematic approach you take to it, because I think sometimes
people, when they hear the word culture, it really almost feels ethereal.
Like they, they don't, it sounds like a touchy feely, it sounds like.
Something that is a feelgood thing, but yeah, that's not how we do it around here.
That's not gonna make me money, you know?
Or that's not gonna make us our product any better.
It's just something that, yeah, we just, we have a great culture quo.
I think what you're saying is with the 20 tenets is, we're gonna land the
plane and a great culture starts with.
At minimum, at least these 20 things we say, you need to integrate these
things into your organization.
If you do that, you're gonna have it.
So it's not ethereal, it's not unknowable, it's very straightforward.
It's just intentional.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: It's intentional, it's baby steps and it's
giving, it's not launching some initiative that everybody has to fall in line on.
It's really letting people decide where they want to invest in their growth.
And so 20 sounds like a lot, but when you think of it that way, I
just want everybody to at least grab onto two and they're gonna hear
conversations about all of them.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Sure.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: maybe, you know, the first
one is be more coachable,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Understand that you want to be
the person that gets coached if
long-term successful in anything in life.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and coaching is in your benefit, right?
It's in your interest.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Right.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: most people, most employees, resent
getting feedback and getting coached,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: right?
hey, my boss has some feedback for me.
Oh, perform like when you hear negative or feedback that is meant
to, help you be more successful.
you want to be more successful, your perspective should be awesome.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: thank you for taking the
time to share that with me.
I'm gonna consider it, I'm gonna work on it, et cetera.
And don't understand why employees don't get this more naturally, but
take it outside of I. You know, if you wanna be a better golfer,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I can promise you the ones who are
coachable, who are asking for feedback, who are getting lessons, who play
with better players, and actually ask them, Hey, anything I could do
to eliminate the slice, or anything I could do to, the people that are
actually working on something and are coachable, they're gonna get better.
And the people that just think, oh, I'm gonna show up and just do what I do all
the time, they're gonna be the same,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: There.
Yeah.
His Groundhog Day.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: being coachable is extremely valuable, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think I love that.
And I wanna ask you this, of the 20 tenants that you guys have created.
Do you see one or two that seem to be the ones that either organizations miss the
most or have the hardest time integrating into their fabric in your experience,
if you were to look at that list of 20 and say, okay, we've got these 20.
Who, which ones of those were in your experience, it is man, we
can't, this just doesn't work or it's just been really hard to integrate.
I know that's a tough one, but,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: looking at my list.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: list, but,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Ah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I'll give you a couple that come to mind.
Okay.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that are the biggest misses,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that are the organizations
just miss these by a mile.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: One of them is, we, 10 14.
I'll give you my numbers.
Not that it
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it's called All Aboard,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: All on board.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: And the idea here is when your team, when your
company like, makes a decision, it's okay to have discussion and even disagreement
prior to that making of a decision.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: But what a great employee does is
they, even if you think it's the wrong direction or the wrong way
to go, or it wasn't your idea.
quickly as possible after a team or a company makes that decision.
if you wanna be a rockstar employee, it's your job to get
on board to be supportive, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and I think the opposite of that is
someone who even five years later, is just hoping it doesn't work
out so they can say, told you so.
Right.
And there's a lot of people that deep down, they're holding onto,
eh, not the way I would've done it.
I don't think this is the right thing.
I don't think this is the right metric to track.
I don't think this is.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and that really holds back momentum, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Agreed.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: seeking as alignment and buy-in
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: That's it.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: in big systems, especially.
You just see a lot of people who aren't all aboard, who aren't all in.
You know that they resent what they're being asked to do or what
the team decided or what, et cetera.
And I'm telling you, that is just an invisible, An anvil that,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: around when people don't understand.
we want you to be all aboard.
we want you to have your own opinions.
We want those to be voiced.
We want to have another one of our tenants friendly friction.
Like we want
open disagreement, we
able to really contest ideas, but when we make a decision, we
need you to be on board, right?
And to support it and be part of the team.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so that would be one of 'em.
Another one I'm just gonna share, this is an odd one.
When people see our list, they often point to this one right away.
and it's called no gossip,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: gossip, and.
Gossip does nobody any good.
You know, saying hurtful, harmful, spiteful things about people that you
work with, is just nothing but negative.
There's just no upside to talking behind people's back.
questioning people's motives, personal drama, whatever it is
there, there's just no upside to
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: no upside to that.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: humans are just drawn to it.
we're just drawn to oh, what's the scoop?
Or what, oh yeah, she said that.
in so many work settings, you just see a lot of gossip
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: just not productive.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that was one of the things.
When I, worked at a previous company that had a phenomenal culture that
I mentioned in the introduction,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: one of the biggest, most noticeable things you
just don't see is people don't, they don't talk bad about each other, like ever.
And if you do, other people say, what are you doing?
we don't do that here.
she's great.
what are you talking?
they make someone who's gossiping feel very uncomfortable of
like, why do you say that?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Oh wow.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: great, whatever.
And it's like there's antibodies in the system
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: these toxic things, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I love that.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: get to the highest level of some
of these cultural, perspectives, they become self-sustaining.
'cause it's no, this is who we are, this is how we work.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think that's, I love
both of those examples.
'cause number one, with the gossip, I just look at gossip and
I say gossip equals distraction.
because there's so much.
There's so much there.
If you're talking about this over here, then all of a sudden you create drama
and now there's a whole two or three people, and now they're, now we're
focused on resolving this issue of he said, she said blah, blah, blah, blah.
And what we're not focused on is great customer service, is quality
and excellence in our manufacturing or delivery of that service to the
customer, what the customer thinks.
We're just focused on the drama and whatever time we're focused
on that is a distraction.
So I think that's really great.
I think the getting on board thing is so true.
I think there's so many reasons that can go off track, because there's
personal pride involved, right?
If we have an idea and everybody doesn't see that, and we get, we kinda
get hurt and oh, a little pity party a little bit, which is, hey, we're all
susceptible that I'm not throwing shade.
I'm just saying, like you said, the faster we can snap outta that because.
Really, it's seeing the bigger picture.
I may be in sales and the company may make a decision and it may negatively
impact my team, but the great there, the reason is there's a greater good.
And so if I can pull myself back and see it from other people's perspective
and organization, it may help me realign my vision and say, oh, okay.
it doesn't help me, but the pain that I'm feeling.
is the sacrifice and contribution I'm making to make the team win.
And sometimes it's so hard to get over that hurdle, right?
It's just so hard to, it's hard to take that bitter pill.
But I think that to your point is that if you can move through that
and get on board, that alignment is gonna keep the momentum going.
And I think it's, like you were saying, if you're pulling a weight, even if you are
doing it, but you're not all in, you're never gonna be doing it as well as you
could if you're enthusiastic and engaged and you really care and you wanna do that.
So it's, a lot of this stuff is a mental game.
we're trying to shift our mental, trying to say, how are we perceive these things?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: and I would say at an individual contributor
level, it's very understandable.
let's say you're a sales producer, and a change gets made that's gonna affect
your commission schedule, or it's gonna affect some, it's understandable
to say, I don't support the decision.
I don't,
because it goes against my self-interest and it's not helpful.
an individual contributor level.
If people feel that way, and that's why we're coaching these 2010, it's like,
no, I want you to try to understand and get on board and support it,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: least understandable at an
individual contributor level how they might not able to get fully on
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Sure.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: leadership level.
If you're the sales director or the sales leader, that is your responsibility
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: for the company, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: that's right.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: a leader is saying, Hey, look.
I know this affects my team and my division, but I'm a leader in this
organization, which means the company is who I'm ultimately, working for, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: And
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: gotta get on board and be
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: you better.
And just think about that.
And that's what we're talking about momentum, because you
mentioned two different scenarios.
If you've got a team you're leading and the first person says, this is really
hurting us and this is making my job harder, and they're an individual person.
Their team member, they don't see the whole picture.
They see the work in front of 'em.
Now, if you're the leader and you go, I'm not in it either.
You know what?
I think it was a stupid decision.
I can't believe.
All of a sudden now that has spread through that whole team and that whole
team now is like, and they're gonna be slower and they're not gonna be.
You as the leader, it's so important.
'cause now you've got to not only say I, I am in it.
I'm doing it for me.
You've gotta be able to sell it to those people and say, no.
I know it's harder.
I know it's I, but listen, it's gonna help.
We've gotta do this for the team.
And you're bringing everybody back.
That's worlds apart.
That's worlds apart based on the leader's response to that.
So I think that's a really great point.
I think that's a really great point.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: that leads me into my number one of all
the 20 tenets, the number one that I
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Oh,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the most things.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Let's hear it.
Let's go.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it's number three, and it's simple words.
Simple to say, hard to do, but it's assume positive intent.
Okay?
Learn to assume positive intent from other people.
All right, so let's keep that scenario going.
If you're the sales director, if you're the, you know, et cetera.
I, if you're feeling like, Hey, this decision doesn't make any sense, I don't
like it, et cetera, that is stemming from.
Deep down some perspective of not assuming that whoever made that decision is trying
to make the best decision for the company,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: If you start from a perspective of,
you know what I assume positive intent
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the people that are leading this
organization or the people that are leading the division, et
cetera, and that doesn't come.
Easily
of
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: no.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so part of the job of leaders is to
make sure that we are communicating, sharing stories, doing PR for other
department heads, other like people that have to make these tough decisions.
can't just snap your fingers and say, okay, assume positive intent tomorrow.
But over time, if we're running a high integrity team, an organization, and
if you're working for good people that are trying their best to build a good
company, it should be an obligation of everybody to work really hard.
to build one another's reputations in a way that you can assume positive intent.
a decision gets made, you don't have the info.
It's okay, I assume.
Positive intent, right?
And that affects so many things, right?
And even just think about inter interpersonal communications
between employees, right?
the conflicts, the things that pop up.
Ultimately, it's usually can be stemmed back to somebody's not
assuming that the other person had good intent when they said what they
said or when they did what they did.
they assume they meant to hurt me or to insult me, And that just leads to so
many, unfortunate dramas and conflicts in
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I think you're so spot on with that.
And I think that as humans, it's really human nature to fill in the gaps
that we don't know with a negative.
you, I know any listener listening to the last 10%, naturally
has not known something and they've jumped to a conclusion.
That was negative.
Like you don't have the report, the, somebody didn't call you in time,
but the doctor doesn't call you with your, you know, your medical.
You're like, oh my God, probably have this on and I'm losing my, and we just always
tend to go to the worst case scenario.
Some people have that.
More than others, but I think it's a human condition and I think so
you have to really intentional, like you said, because, and I think
this is a challenge to businesses as well, I think you said that.
businesses have to be in the business of communicating.
And if you're not communicating with your team members, all
you're doing is stressing that.
Number three, point your number three point, assume the
positive intent as a business.
I want you to have to assume.
As little as possible.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Yeah.
Overcommunicate.
Yeah.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I wanna over communicate, so you don't have
to, but in the situations that you do, I want you to know that we're working,
we're working very hard and you're part of the team and you can assume the best,
but hopefully you don't have to do that.
We don't wanna lean on that one.
As an organization is we're not gonna tell anybody anything.
We're just hope.
They'll assume the best,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: lean on it, but if I could
go a little deeper here.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: these things, they're good for
your company and your team, but they're good for you personally.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: a perfect leader.
I have all sorts of things that I'm working on.
of all 20 of these things.
I will tell you this one is like my superpower.
Okay?
I am really good at assuming positive intent.
When
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: That's awesome.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: off in traffic, I just think, man,
they must have somewhere to go.
if I come outside, I'm not kidding.
I
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: That's awesome.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: It drives my wife nuts, but like
I'll come outside and if somebody's walked their dog and there's somebody
left, a left some poo in my front
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah, yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: a lot of people would walk
outside and they would go, oh my gosh, what a jerk, et cetera.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: will walk outside and I'll go, oh
man, I bet they felt really bad.
They must have forgot to bring a bag.
and I will, and I mean it.
Like I
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: good at this.
And what I will tell you is I. don't get upset.
I don't
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: yeah, yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I'm happy all the time\
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I am so good at assuming positive
intent from other people.
in my own self-interest.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: It is.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: am happier because of it.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: so it's good for teams and cultures,
obviously, if people can assume positive intent from one another.
And what I have seen so many people destroy relationships because.
They can't do this.
they assume the worst and then they don't talk about it and
aspire and oh my goodness.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: start telling yourself, oh, I'm sure
they didn't mean it that way, and move on, you will be so much happier.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I love it.
Listen, listeners of the last 10%, take it from Brett.
Assume positive intent.
You guys gotta be like Brett on this one 'cause he has a superpower of that.
That's a great story and I think it's so true when you do it well.
I. All you're doing is helping yourself.
you're essentially eliminating just a lot of negative energy and a lot
of just stress and anxiety, which is, putting cortisol on your body.
And we all know the negative effects of that.
And so I just, I think that's really great and, and I think that's true.
I love all of your tendencies are great.
I'll ask you one more question then we'll go.
If your dad was to give, now you made a comment earlier of him being
able to preach of culture, but if your dad was on the show today and
he said, all right, there's one thing, remember this one thing.
Remember the movie scene one, there's this one thing.
If he was to say there was one piece of advice that he would give organizations
that were looking to move into the last 10% of organizational world-class
culture, what do you think he would say to the organizational leaders?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: He says a lot of things.
All right.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yes.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: on the day, you might get a
different piece of advice.
But I'll share
that we believe at better culture.
And this is aspirational, okay?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: right.
Yeah.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: But if you want to have a
healthy team and culture, if you will, make it your goal, okay?
Now, be careful about this.
Don't,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm-hmm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: it out loud right away, but if
you will make it your goal that every employee in your company will
report to a world class manager.
That's a game changer, right?
So because you're acknowledging culture matters, people's work experience matters.
And about 50 to 70% data shows of how an employee feels about their
whole company is related to the relationship they have with their boss
and their team, but their boss largely.
If you tell me culture matters.
are not putting the right people in management roles, you're not
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Hmm,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the way that they lead people.
then I'm gonna tell you, you're giving lip service to this idea
that culture matters, right?
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: man.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: you just, if you have a team, a company
of a hundred people, and you got 15 managers, and you wanna move the needle
on culture, those 15 managers are where you need to look, put the right
people in the right places and train 'em how to be more effective leaders.
And, so I think that would be the number one thing is.
You've gotta put the right people in those roles and you gotta train
'em and teach 'em what, how to lead.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Couldn't agree with you more.
You, your leaders are gonna determine your culture and they're gonna
drive and they're gonna drive.
That initiatives.
Those initiatives, those values, those 20 tenets are all gonna be driven.
By organizational leaders in your company.
And if you don't have the right people there, the rest of
it's not really gonna matter.
you can have fired up employees, but they won't be for long if you
got leaders throwing buckets of cold water, on their efforts, so yeah.
No, I love that.
I love that.
I think that's really great.
That's great advice, and I think it's a call to organizations.
It's a call to leaders that are listening to the last 10% to ask themselves.
It's time of a little self-reflection.
Are you the leader that's moving the ball forward?
Are you helping not only are you assuming positive intent, but are
you helping your teams do that?
are you on board with company initiatives?
Are you driving those things forward?
Are you allowing gossip in your organization?
What are the things that you need to be better at as a leader?
Because if you're driving culture forward, you are the
one, you're the culture keeper.
I think that's really great advice.
You made a comment earlier that really stuck to me.
You said it was like antibodies.
I think that's a sign of a really strong culture is a self-policing culture is when
you walk into an organization and like you said, somebody starts sharing gossip
and they're like, what are you doing?
that's not, she's great, just fine.
You know that right there that those antibodies.
Are built up over time and they're throughout the system and it's
not just localized antibodies, it's the whole body is protected.
And I think that's really a great analogy that you said.
And so as we're trying to build those culture antibodies in our
organizations, if somebody wanted to learn more about you and your.
better culture and just all the things that you guys are into your
20 tenants, how can they, how can they get more information about
them and find out more about you?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Yeah, you can find me, Brett Hoge
on LinkedIn or you can go to better culture.com, our general website.
But what I really want your listeners to do, is I'm gonna.
I'm gonna make a free resource available to you guys if you'll go
to better culture.com/last 10 and
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: 10, not the word 10, but just,
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Yeah,
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: 10
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: last in.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: I'm gonna give, a free, what we
call our culture Kickstarter pack.
And
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: this is we've taken two of these 20
tenets and we've, we're just giving away all of our resources completely
for free, that any leader can use.
To help build a better team from the bottom up.
And so that's a self-assessment you could do with all your employees.
That's a coaching video, content that's discussion.
It's a, it's like a team building activity.
it's a whole bunch of stuff that you could do to start pushing and
coaching people to live these values.
That'll make a big difference.
and we just released it and it's, I
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Wow.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: the best resource that we're
ever, we've given away for free.
And I just wanna put tools in the hands of leaders or culture champions
and say, grab this and try it.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Mm mm.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: one.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: Okay.
All right.
Well this is fantastic.
So listeners, you got a free tool from Brett and we are going to, we'll add
that if you're driving right now, don't worry, we'll add it to the show notes.
But, please visit that and get your free tool and we'll put it out there
so that you guys can download that and get some great information On
culture, you get two of the 20 tenants.
That's awesome.
That's really great.
I appreciate that.
For our listeners, that's really gonna be, that's good.
I'll check it out myself.
That sounds, it sounds amazing.
Sounds amazing.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: tool.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: All right, well listen, we always ask a
guest on the last 10%, if they were to have someone that they wanted to listen
to on the last 10%, who would they share as a name of a guest they would
like to see or hear on the last 10%?
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Yeah.
Well, well, I think I'll do a shout out to, one of my friends who, is a speaker,
has built a really cool business.
his name's Paul Epstein, um, runs a company called, a
brand called win monday.com.
And it's really about, you know, how do you, how do you figure out, how
to be motivated and how to get going, whatever career path you're on in life.
And I think Paul's a really motivating, interesting guy.
dallas-burnett_35_05-07-2025_102841: I like that.
I like win Monday.
Paul, we'll have to reach out to Paul and see if he'd be interested
in coming on the last 10%.
we definitely like winning on Monday 'cause it, you can't win it.
We, you can't win every day if you don't win Monday.
so that's good.
That's good.
Well, Brett, thank you for being on the last 10%.
Thank you for sharing your 20 tenets and some wisdom as it relates to culture.
I think the listeners had a great time listening to, the conversation today.
We just appreciate you being here.
brett-hoogeveen_1_05-07-2025_092839: Cool.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.