I'm so casual right now.

I'm meeting a panini.

we've just realized Hamish and I haven't done a podcast,

so just us two for a while.

So we thought after a bit of a lunch break while Hamish, she's eating,

you can hear it ruffling away in the background, we thought we'd just have

a bit of a chat that we haven't sat down for probably about 20 weeks,

30 weeks and had just a US podcast.

so, and the lot's changed for both of us.

We both had little girls.

Um, we've had, actually can I ask you, this is a good topic.

how is it being a dad?

I'm, I'm, I'm loving it.

So, um, we actually just joked about, we don't have a topic for this podcast,

so who knows where this goes guys?

So the whole idea is trends.

So the trends at the moment, we both, I've.

Had a daughter.

So she's today, she's I think 11, 11 weeks old yesterday.

Um, well, it's trend, it's trendy in our lives 'cause I just had a daughter

too.

Yeah.

So it's, uh, we're surrounded by, uh, I'd say love, um, right

now and I'm loving being a dad.

It's, it's, it's fun.

Like it's a look.

We, I, I have a unicorn of a child and she's sleeping minimum

eight hours straight at night.

So I have been very sheltered from the life of, Struggling to get rest.

I was really scared of going into running a business, finishing a house, doing

some other little things on the side, having a child on how do I navigate this?

Like I was, I remember chatting with Ned from nw build me like,

I'm a bit, I'm not scared 'cause I was gonna, oh, I'm gonna own it.

I'll be fine.

It was how, how do I balance everything and I, and.

I'm doing an awesome job.

It doesn't say that in 10 weeks it might change and she'll change.

Like I know you've constantly said to me, things can change with a

click of a finger, and it's, I was,

I was surprised that things haven't changed yet.

So, you know what?

Just ride this wave while you No, I'm enjoying it.

And, and that's, I, it's like I'm super pumped to get into her house, which to

finish in about six weeks, um, that she gets to live in a certified passive house.

So.

Mm-hmm.

Hopefully targeting, targeting, no.

Fuck.

It's, it's a, it's certified, it doesn't have to park.

It's gonna be certified.

I'll just say that.

Um, but the, the, the thing is like, it's, it's a space that I know we

talk about mental health and stuff a lot on this podcast and, uh,

yesterday being, are you okay day?

I think there's a lot of information around that.

Maybe we are missing something on the whole dad's chat, um, parent

corner, whatever you wanna call it.

Uh, I'm learning you've got three children now you've got two,

and there's a lot of like, um.

There's a lot of, um, we've got some friends in the building industry

who are having kids soon too.

And you get, I, for me, the hardest part, I had fed a lot of advice,

try this, do this, that, and I'm like, Hmm, I'll work it out later.

And I

think advice e everyone's really quick.

What I've experienced, everyone's really quick to give you

advice when you're having kids.

And I'm not saying don't give advice.

I would say take, take as much in as you can.

But you're not always, you're not gonna accept everything either.

Like I think everyone's good advice comes from really good intentions.

Yeah.

And everyone's situ. So I, I have two bits of advice that anyone

that is gonna have a child, one the baby is as relaxed as you are.

If you are chill, baby's chill.

The second bit of advice is don't listen to anyone else's advice.

Like that's, that's it.

Like take in what you want, choose what you want.

Yeah.

Take from it what you want.

I parent differently to how my brother parents to my sister

parents to my best mates to parent.

Like we take bits and pieces and you learn from it.

Um, do you,

anyone's been, sorry to interrupt for a sec. Do you know what's

been really interesting?

'cause I'm, we're, we're obviously in a different sort of phase of

life and we've just had a girl as well, a couple of weeks behind.

Um, your little girl Noah.

So we've got three kids and I'd made the decision, um, quite early on in the

piece that I was going to wind back my hours and I'm gonna give some advice.

as a business owner, it's really difficult to shut off now.

I was, it was quite fortuitous the timing where when we had Juniper, that we were

in school holidays, so I took a week off.

Spent a lot of time with Darcy and Phoenix.

In fact, my first week was more time with them than it was with Juniper.

Um, 'cause let's face it, at that age, you know that you're

holding 'em and that's it.

Then they want mom and they're sleeping and pooping and drinking.

but I made the choice to, to scale back my, uh, work hours.

So I was working nine till two 30.

Now, I'd argue that I was probably getting more done in that time

because it was concentrated time.

Admittedly, I was in the office probably the same time 'cause I wasn't gonna site.

Yeah.

But it was honestly the best thing for my relationship with Darcy.

Best thing with my relationship with Phoenix.

And absolutely the best thing with my relationship with Lucy.

'cause I was there.

So this is what I'm learning.

I like, I, I didn't get time off.

And the reality is, as a business owner, I knew that I don't get time off like

some of my mates who get 16, 18 weeks maternity leave, I know I get a lifetime

of doing what I want when I want.

Yep.

Which is, you say that, but you also don't, so I probably

went down to 30% of work.

So I would work during her, her naps.

At that time she was sleeping probably two and a half hours.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I'd try and get as much done.

I, a lot of it was with our own house, trying to get things moving

and keeping continuing things.

What it did do is it actually exposed a lot of issues within my business

because it's like I wasn't able to step away as much I had in the past.

I've gone overseas multiple times.

The first house I ever finished and handed over, I was in the middle of the

pyramid image in Egypt, climbing in.

I was able to completely switch off and go away.

I struggled to switch off this time, I don't know whether it's because of my

house or was a business up, and I, at the time I had two, my team, I had sort of

moved on a little bit, um, and I was kind of going through a bit of a restructure

and Dave was in Europe for seven weeks.

So everything come at once.

Um, it put mark, my construction manager under a huge amount of pressure and

Kayla in the office, which is, you know what it is, what it is, and it exposed.

Flaws on where we can improve.

But I look at that as a huge positive.

Absolutely.

It's like, you know what, like, 'cause without it, it just becomes a problem.

And at the moment it's not a problem, it's just, it's things we've gotta identify

that I need to now just, uh, clean up.

From my perspective, it's a me thing, not them.

I have a question.

This is, and this is kind of is ringing true 'cause we've just had Joel from Heidi

build on here and he's going through like a bit of a transition phase in his life.

'cause he's had shoulder surgery, hands on, kind of build a carpenter.

And, and we asked him, you know, what does the next phase look like for him?

Because he's sort of been forced into a change of, um, I

guess his role in the business.

Do you almo, and I'm gonna ask you, I know what my answer to this is.

Do you think we almost need these forced changes to think about things differently?

I think, I think when you, when you go away overseas or go on a holiday over

Christmas, you, you think about it, you come back with all these ideas.

Yeah.

And you're clear-minded.

I got that a bit when I had Noah because I was away to, I I switched off a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got to sleep in a, a little bit.

and you, and you kind of do things at your own pace a little bit more

and you kind of start to realize a few little things that you're like.

You, you just get clarity.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I probably had clarity of what I wanted to do and where I wanted

to be and what I wanted for my team.

I think the, the, probably the question, maybe I didn't answer it.

Um, uh, clearly you, your role had to change.

You were forced to change because of this other factor in your situation.

It's Noah in Joel's situation, it's his shoulder.

Yeah.

Do you think that this change, like being forced to change.

Is a good thing.

Oh yeah.

But isn't change I'm, I'm, I love change.

Yeah.

Change is great.

Change is exciting.

Maybe 'cause we like shiny things, but,

and do you, do you think that maybe sometimes as builders and as business

owners, that sometimes we just get so wrapped up in the status quo and we're

not forced to change, we get stale.

Oh, like, yeah.

So in summary, do you shoulder or have a baby and your business will get better?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, a sample size of three, I think it's.

You'd ask Brad from Sanford.

Yes.

Like he, he, he broke his wrist.

Like he had to restructure what he wanted to do.

Yeah.

We spoke with Jake for notorious tools.

He back went on him, so he had to restructure what he do.

There's actually a real common theme along the way.

Yeah.

With a lot of people that have had the similar uh, experience.

Um, and a lot of, Hey, I went to uni.

I didn't like it made a realization earlier.

Like I know that I'm going through a phase where ice.

We're both going through potentially semi business phase changes where

we're trying to look and about what we kind of had idea of this podcast.

And we may get there or maybe not, there's trends in the future, but

I'm trying to look five to six years away and in an environment in

construction that is like volatile.

Yeah.

And how do I now, for the first time ever, I found that I'm not more ruthless,

but I'm like, I have a daughter.

And I reckon I've slightly, I've changed Your priorities changed, yeah.

Yeah.

And I, I've become a little bit more, you know what, it's

just not Nicole and I anymore.

Yeah.

There's a third and that third is super important.

And how do I provide for her?

And how do I make sure she's getting, uh, am I giving her the best chance to

succeed in whatever she wants to do?

So I think that the change is positive, the change is, and

it's just not those people.

I also want to change, uh, the way I do business.

For my team, I wanna make their life like they, they got it pretty good, but

I also wanna make it easier again, like how do I constantly evolve for them?

How do you make it easier, but at the same time make it challenging,

but step Yeah.

But also step away more to allow them to do so.

I wanna, so I wanna step away more from my business in the sense of like, I

kind of love the idea of going down to four day weeks at some point myself,

I'm still probably gonna do my 50 hours in minimum in, in four days.

I love, Hey, let me even rephrase that.

I love a day where I, Nicole can do, do what she wants, I grab Noah and we

might be doing things, we might go to zoo, but I also might have a meeting

so the flexibility comes with her.

But I'd also love the ability for my team to take more ownership

and I'm fine handing it over.

I've gotta work at a good structure to make that work, but also, um, look

at the future because I think that building's never been more, well, I

know it's never been more expensive.

More projects are falling over than ever before.

Mm-hmm.

And if you haven't got projects falling over.

Um, you're not drawing hard enough.

Yeah, yeah.

Is something's going wrong?

Either too cheap or, um, there's other issues at, at thing, but then I also look

at, like, I was finding, I spending so much time on social media that I need to

get away and I practically, one thing I do every day now on trying to, is when

I get home, I just put on a floor, I block that I can't actually access it.

Yeah, no, I've noticed that.

'cause you don't reply.

No, I don't reply and then, and then I get a barrage of

responses.

Yeah.

It's five 30 in the morning.

Yeah.

But I, I, I, I was finding like, what's.

I'm also loving the diplomat on Netflix.

I'm like, I'm hooked on at the moment.

But I think, which one's that again?

It's with, I forget.

It's about, it's kind of really relevant to the world at the moment

where it's like, uh, to, and she, she

was, that's actually really awesome, but let's not get such, yeah.

So anyway, that's a really great, we've

maybe do an episode on TV shows, I know you as well when you go away

to your holiday house and, yeah.

Chill.

You're just clear.

Like it's, and this is why I want, let's be clear, it's a family holiday house.

It's not my, yeah, yeah.

But I wanna, um, but I wanna, I, I would love if as an industry in the middle of

the year, or even as a society, we shut down for a week in the middle of the

year to stop everyone in, everyone in the first week of June is having it off.

Everyone

in the industry.

Yeah.

Just, we just have an industry break.

Let's have, and, and I think we live in a society where if you, if you're

working more and more and more, and like it's perceived in this fancy social

media message of, look how much Hamish's working, oh, you must be killing it.

It's not that we spoke about Joel.

It's not, the social media world is not,

we, we, you know what we do?

We do a shutdown.

In fact, it's next Friday.

Yeah.

So we,

we had one in, in July.

I just think it's such a great reset.

I think what I was trying to get at before is do you think we need

to wait for, or how, how can we not wait for these, um, I guess whether

expected or unexpected milestones in our life for it to then force change.

How, how do you be proactive rather than reactive?

How do you, yeah.

How do you be proactive to, to probably goes onto to these

trends we look at, um, AI.

Yeah, ai.

Talk about I, yeah, because I don't know anything about it, but you do.

So

I, I've used language models for.

Two years now.

Um, it's funny, I see a lot of people using their social media and they'll

write AI and you can clearly see they've written it because they can't

even get the Zeds to SS correctly.

I know what, I know what

a language model is.

What, what is that?

Is it so it's a language model from my understanding.

I'm probably gonna butcher this hard, is it's run it through chat gp.

Yeah.

You're running something through chat.

GTP or Gemini or cloud or, no, I'm saying, I'm saying run it through chat too.

Answer.

Um, but it's practically helping.

It's, I look at it, AI to me is a tool to help you.

Do what you do.

It doesn't solve all the issues.

And I see, I see it with people at the moment just using AI to do their work.

It's not that it is there as a tool to help you do your work

and you, I reckon you've hit the nail on the head.

'cause it is a tool and like with every tool, you need to

know how to use it properly.

So

study came out a few weeks ago.

I'm gonna butcher this one too.

I'll sort of try to summarize it.

There was like a, I think it was a UK study.

There was a group of people that they got to just use AI to do an assignment, a

group that had to kind of go to a library and do the assignment and use textbooks,

and one that was able to use the internet.

And then at the end of the assignment, they kind of went and interviewed

'em about what they'd done.

And the people who just used AI couldn't recall what they even wrote.

Yeah.

But the people in the library knew everything about the topic when grilled.

So I think the thing is you can use it to help you and assist what you wanna do.

Like I've created my own little bots that help me.

Write like I do that help me clean up sentences.

I don't use it to write my emails.

I don't use it to, um, I use it when questions like, how would we do this?

Or I use it to help write scripts for my reels.

So I'll put in a topic.

I've actually, um, gone in huge detail around, like it mimicking my own voice.

I use it for building science in like, I've created a bot that helps

with building science questions, but it can only reference a certain.

Websites or if its information, I just don't let it, I kind

of use it as a, as a check.

Um, I've even found it with baby stuff.

Like with with Noah, I've kind of been like, oh, use the Red

Nose Foundation as information.

What would you do in this situation?

Like, yeah.

So, and, and this is, I guess like the, the whole tool thing, right?

So I, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, like.

You need to know what prompts to ask.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't, yeah,

yeah.

You can't just go write me, uh uh, write

me Instagram post on membranes.

Yeah.

You can see it when people do it, and I see it all the time because their

wording, it's written out like in conclusion, like, oh, in this topic

about membranes and, and I understand people were trying to get content

out there and stuff, but it's very,

so my, my lazy, my va.

Uses chat, GPT and I actually don't have a problem with it because I

mean, she's comes from a, um, you

have to, if you're not using it, you're behind time.

Well,

she comes from a computer science background, right?

So she understands the language that you, that she understands, one, how it works

and what, and what it's actually doing.

But she also understands what prompts her, her, her ability to actually.

Ask the right prompts.

Now I'm getting her to help me with a lot of my social media stuff.

It, it starts, it kind of gets like, you know, when you had to back in

school and you had to do the assignment, you're like, what's that first sentence?

Yep.

It helps with that.

Well, I know that like she's helping me do some full disclosure SBA post, right?

Yeah.

So she's gone and read the entire SBA website, so now she actually understands

what kind of prompts to put into chat GPT to help her with developing these.

social media posts.

So, do you know one thing that I've done?

Um, I actually uploaded the NCC Volume two into Made my Own Bot.

I have a question about the NCC.

I don't need a troll through anymore, but, hey, can we do this or that?

I've also done something that I don't wanna tell anyone on the podcast that what

I've done, because if I could get myself not into trouble, but it kind of like

exposes what I can do something very well.

Um, but I've used it from multiple tools to help me not

I bet you I know what that is.

Yeah, I know.

I've told, I've told our builders group on what it is, but it's, it's, I just

don't want everyone knowing about it.

'cause it kind of, I just don't want people knowing that I've

got this tool at my disposal.

Um, what it, what it does is, again, but don't, don't use it to tell me the answer.

I use it to help me find what I need.

So, for example, we were looking at something on stairs the other day.

I just needed to know something.

I'd rather flick through the code.

I had a question that kind of spat out what I needed to know

and where I needed to look.

Then I went and did that.

So that, that's, that is the example of where I used it.

It short, it shortcuts that information finding, like in a situation like

that, you can quickly run it through chat or Gemini, whatever, and, um.

It's giving you kind of a high level summary and go, right, I probably need

to dive into that thing there, which you can then go and do some further research

on.

Yeah.

It it, and, and it just, it just, it, it's a tool.

It's not the answer.

And, and, and it will be an answer like, people like all this AI is

this new, shiny thing in the world.

We've had AI for, we've.

Series ai and that came out 10 plus years ago.

Using, everyone's using,

we've all been using it.

You go to supermarket and it's as you

type, as you type on your phone or as you predicted text, as you type

on your computers or emails and stuff, it's predicting your text.

That's ai.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's going to change the world.

It's scary, I would say.

Our industry is going to be disrupted.

I think where it gets really, where

do, yeah.

Where do you think AI or how do you think AI and let's sort of

wrap in robotics into that as well.

Yeah, yeah.

How

do you think, um.

I'm gonna tell you how AI is gonna disrupt building more than anything, and

whether it's government gonna allow it.

Imagine a system where an architect designs a building and they've

gotta go through a planning permit.

They can upload that building design through the planning permit

system and it can go yet that complies with the res code or not.

And bang, you now have a planning permit rather than waiting months and

months and months because councilors are slow, they are not, uh, reliable.

They can't be held accountable.

And now we have a system where it goes, yeah, you're good.

And the client within a week potentially have their permit and they're off they go.

So here's a question.

I I think that's a bloody fantastic, uh, approach, by the way.

I think I to, to a certain level, but.

a lot of this stuff is up to interpretation.

So how do, but

that's the problem with, and this is that, that is a problem with our planning code.

It's up to interpretation.

It shouldn't be.

Yeah, I understand that.

So then how do we get to a point where we're confident with the ai?

I don't know.

I don't, we learn from mistakes.

Okay.

Like everything else we do, so, okay.

You just learn like you, like we constantly learn.

It's not gonna be perfect, but it's gonna be better than what it is now and quick

and, and we wanna build so many houses.

Yes, it's gonna remove jobs, it's gonna create more jobs too.

And I don't know enough about that backend.

So, I mean, if we think about the planning thing for a second, you could

do your first cut through AI and then someone picks it up and reviews it.

Yeah.

Just double checks.

Like well double checks.

Yeah.

And what just removes the subjective nature of a planner

that 'cause they don't like it.

Yeah.

Um, I, I think there's a huge thing there.

I think potentially scheduling, um, I think helping architects build out

models and 3D models, which is, we'll probably get into in a second, is a

huge area, um, for trades on site.

I think that you could automate certain things for workflows

and pieces of information.

It's, I, I maybe like robots in the future might be able to plaster all.

I think one of the biggest things we wanna see in construction is so many

people losing their jobs due to ai, that one of the safest areas is gonna be.

Construction.

Yeah.

On the tools, things like nursing.

Yeah.

Uh, they are the, the jobs that we kind of need to get people into Yeah.

Are kind of gonna come back.

I, and I, I think that's a huge benefit.

Um, it makes it more competitive and we can get people, uh, back, back on site.

I don't think we have, I think we're not gonna have an issue

in their future with traits.

I don't think so.

I don't think so.

Um, so I reckon another trend at the moment, I know you've kind of dabbled

into it a little bit, is, um, modeling.

I don't know enough about this, but I know a little bit or like

a little enough to be dangerous.

I don't like other countries, like this is just what they

use and we just don't use it.

Like I asked and I dunno, actually, I asked, I asked a a client yesterday

potentially for a BMX file and it was like, oh, it's so hard to do that.

I'm like, just click your button.

Surely it's not like the, the 3D model will save so much money on the

project and James from Alter Rico spits it out as part of his package.

Yeah.

So like, and do you know how much money we have saved clients by going.

Or we would've got that wrong and that would've been a variation.

Yeah.

When, when, and you are looking at the moment, you know, probably more.

Yeah.

I mean the project, the one project we've done with Alter Eco, like their,

the way that their plans are and the model that they give us, which is kind

of almost superimposed on top of the floor plan is, was on these two, this

project, dual lock was a game changer.

Like some of the stuff that we didn't see in the 2D drawings

that we saw in the model.

Is just a game changer, but

we are current, so, so on that, which is really important because

we see it as builder perspective.

So you see the building aspect.

What I didn't realize with my own house is Nicole, and this is

any client will have this issue.

We can't expect a normal person to pick up a piece of plan.

Yep.

30 pages and know what the building's gonna look like.

Yeah.

We as builders that do this daily, still struggle with some plans, a 3D model,

they can fly through and know everything.

Yep.

Why architects, building designers are just not spitting this out and

then incorporating the engineering, they get into this to make

sure that their building works.

Mind blowing, changes everything for us as a builder.

Yep.

So, so we are currently.

Getting trained up.

So will I, when I say we, my um, uh, estimator is currently

getting trained up in plus spec.

And, um, what we're spitting out now, and we are like two or three months

into this journey, what are, what we're spitting out now and what he's learning.

He literally is building the homes on plus spec.

And the beauty about plus spec is that everything is then

tied back to cost costings.

But you do, you have to build it as it was.

Input.

'cause there could be side issue.

They're like, what if the kind of the team on site builds

it a little bit differently?

there's always gonna be human error and you'll make mistakes and learn from it.

We just spoke about Exactly.

Yeah.

So, but I'm a, I'm a classic failing forward kind of person, right?

Yeah.

So I know the first three or four projects we do when we've actually

modeled it, estimated it, and then checked it and then taken it to site,

there's gonna be stuff that we're gonna improve the whole way through.

Um, fortunately there's another two or three builders going through

this journey at the same time.

And every second Monday we're catching up and just exchanging ideas.

And you can release databases probably to each other.

Like, you build this, I'll build that, and then let's just share it together.

The, yeah, I mean, I just about too much.

'cause I feel like, look, I, I actually think that every builder should do this.

Oh, I,

I, it's something that will be on my list.

I gotta, as I identify when I was off with their little one, like

there's other things I needed.

I do first, once I get that.

That will be on my next list of things.

I,

and, and I reckon we get, um, you the developer of plus

spec on here to chat about it.

'cause I think, look, there's other great companies out there at the moment,

V two E are doing the same thing.

They, they're, and sorry to give away your secret sauce, but,

um, V two E is using plus spec.

Yep.

That's, that's, it's what they're modeling in.

But as a builder, and let's, let's be honest with ourselves, we're very

visual people for your team to grab that model and get different layers of that

model and then be able to actually see.

How you've estimated it and then how you want it to be built is a game changer.

Yeah.

2D plans are outdated.

Yeah.

Like the, the, the reality is buildings are so complex and, um, there's so

much detail that everyone wants in a building now, which is fine 'cause you

want architects to push boundaries.

But as there's more detail and more complexity, we need tools to help us.

Yep.

And look,

some, someone who, who's the absolute og, like.

A person who's, who's actually doing this, hasn't been doing it for a while,

is Daniel Perham from Perham Design and Construct up in Bateman's Bay.

Man, how he's rolling his buildings out Yeah.

Is just incredible

because it, I like, I think why, and the people say, why

do builders need to do this?

Shouldn't it be part of the architectural model?

I think we see,

could you challenge me on that too?

Yeah, I did, and I, I, I think there's, I think it's like, I wanna

see how it plays out for a while.

I'll, I'll kind of.

For one to be a little bit reactive and go, I, it, it's definitely gonna

be a thing that, how I input it.

'cause what I, it's like, you know, sometimes when shit's

not broken, don't fix it.

Where like, I kind of, we do a lot of work with alter Rico.

I don't need to do it at the moment.

I'm kind of lucky the people that are doing it for me.

So I, I have that, but it kind of goes back and we've had open

discussions with a lot of builders about this and where, where the model

of building works in the future.

Like do I, I think the biggest disruptor is you're gonna see a way more.

Uh, either builder and architect, build and design team up as a

pair, or you're gonna see design and construct even more than ever.

Um, I think that's gonna be a huge game changer.

'cause it, it allows pricing to be controlled.

The issue is right now we have, I've had 10 projects in the last year.

Uh, at some point fall over, whether it's in the pre-design stage, which is, which

is what we want 'em to fall over at.

I, I, I actually reckon it's just thought to just come to me now.

I think that the, everyone at the moment is experiencing projects not get the site,

whether that be homeowners, designers, builders, every, all of us architect.

Yeah.

Or I design, I can't design, when I say design, I, yeah, I, yeah, I'm, I'm kind

of lumping, you know, designer build designers on the one kind of thing.

now more than ever, we all need to work together to try and figure out

how we make this whole pre-construction phase as smooth as possible,

work together to try and design something that's affordable to build.

Yeah.

And it not end up in a bloody bin, waste bin in the corner like 'cause, because if

we don't collaborate now and we keep going how we are doing, not the status quo.

It, it's just this cycle's gonna, yeah, and

I'll be open, I, I'm working with Alter Rico right now on about four or five

pre-design plans, where what they are is a concept where you can't change

the structure, the window location stuff, and you have a certain amount

of fittings and fixtures to pick from.

You can go to a full interior change on that if you want, you'll

pay more because there's a service associated with customization.

The whole idea is we wanna try and provide something that is a

little bit more cost effective.

Because so many people just wanna build a house and they don't want everything.

And we wanna try streamline the process,

but still hitting your metrics.

Oh, it's high performance, what you want to build.

Every

house can be, can go for passive house certification,

right at at minimum low energy.

And I would say most of them, because what we're trying to do

is all the houses can be inverted.

So if the north is on the left hand side, but then on another job, it's on the right

hand side, we just invert the property.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, so we, we just, we, we can optimize off the design and based on the

person's location and their, their orientation, we just cut out certain

properties they can have access to, assuming their house fits on it.

So that's what we're working on at the moment to try, get out there

'cause you, and they're starting to come back pretty cost effective.

And I, I, I really, really hope that my goal, and I'll be really honest

in the future, is in three, four years, like that is my, all my work.

they're, they're gonna be prefabricated with sips from fence, from panel.

Uh, the windows will most likely be from Bink, the UPVC, and they can't change.

Each job is just like print order, print order I order print.

Sorry, I got that wrong.

So I think that is a model that I see being super successful.

And then we can pick and choose the two custom projects that we want on

the side that just automatically.

Like, we know they're, they're gonna be one profitable from our perspective

that they on budget, they're gonna work.

Um, I don't care.

You could

also, you know, and I think also like removing some of the choices from

the clients, you know, and I'm saying this in the nice way possible, is

potentially a nice thing for them.

Like I, I'm chatting with their couple of clients in Precon at the moment, and some

of their biggest, I'm not gonna say fears, but like thoughts at the moment is how

many decisions they're gonna have to make.

And if you can make 80% of them for them already.

I guarantee they're gonna be okay.

Great.

Yeah.

Well, like we are giving him a kitchen layout.

Here's the colors you can pick from.

We're gonna say, and I'll just use an example, a polytech range, just because I

just, the first thing that comes into my brain is you can pick from their colors.

There you go.

What, what, what color, what cupboard does what I, they're saying the same.

The location is all staying the same because it simplifies the process and

it becomes it more of an assembly line where the joiner just, what color is it?

All right, cool.

I know what I'm doing now.

Yep.

The window company, it's just the same every single time.

The electrician, you're calling

up Joel and.

Yeah.

And, and that means

we can come in cheaper because it's just streamlined.

Everyone knows the projects.

Everyone knows that they're profitable.

We're actually, I have a, I'm gonna say this here.

I'm gonna have a, I have a huge issue what some trades charge for what they're doing.

We're working out what a trade should work well.

'cause so many people, like for an example, a trade might go,

oh, we charge you a square meter.

I'd be like, why do you charge it?

Oh, 'cause everyone else does.

That's not the answer.

Why You should be charging something.

Break it down.

Like, break it down.

Like how many hours?

Like, oh, oh, it's, I make about two grand a day.

Why?

Like, do you need that?

That's ridiculous.

Now we can't get houses built.

So my thing is, I'm telling you, I'm gonna go to my trades.

I'm working with them at the moment to be like, what can, what can you charge?

And I'll tell you what you're can charge.

It is a purchase order.

What the

volume builders do, what are, what are you happy with?

And what are you com And this is, and, and I see where you are coming from.

It's not about screwing the trades or, or, or making them.

Be in a position where they're not making money.

But if you think about it, if they've built that same house half a dozen

times before their team are gonna go in, they're gonna get systems

together, they're gonna do them quicker.

Yeah, sure.

Their markup may not be as much to cover all the unknown fuckery that

you get with a custom home, so they're probably gonna come in and go, right.

Well, maybe my profit margins are a little bit lower.

But it's predictable work so I can get through it quicker.

It's, it's, and I speak to my electrician about this and he's, and so

we looked at the volume builder model.

There's a reason why they have a ceiling fan with the lights in the ceiling fan

with one switch and one PowerPoint.

'cause it's cost effective.

Why do I need four PowerPoints and four downlights in the bedroom?

It's cost.

Everything adds up.

Why do they all need to be two way switched?

They all add up.

You know what?

If you wanna add custom to it and you want to go down that road.

And I'll use like a volume builder way of looking at it.

They sting the client.

Do you know what would do?

'cause you don't have to like, you know what, everyone complains

that building's expensive, but they don't wanna give up anything.

Do

you know what would be a really interesting study?

And probably no one's got the fucking time to do it, but just go around

a home, like a whole sample size of a hundred and just work at how many

PowerPoints in a home don't get used.

Yeah.

Oh, I can tell you my, every can

be like 50%.

So I look at my old house, 60-year-old house living right now, and there's like.

Uh, each PowerPoint there's like one or two max two in a room and they, they

all get used, but I don't need anymore.

I don't need the third and fourth and fifth and the, the one hidden at the back

of the closet in case I wanna plug in.

I'm gonna put one there just 'cause I'm, if I'm here vacuuming my room,

I kind of want to plug in there.

I just like, yeah.

So I, I think you go back to what is need.

So it is needs versus wants.

Yeah.

What do you need?

What do you want?

We will get you the best price we can for your need.

Yeah.

If you want more, you pay for it.

Yeah.

I think that's a fair way.

And the thing is, there's so much choice, have you got

clients that are in this model at the moment or you

just, we, we've, so we've actually done the champion, champion road passive

house, the forest passive house is sort of a learning curve on how to do them.

Yeah.

Um, and we kind of worked out some efficiencies through there.

So there's two.

And then we've also done our Morgan Street High Performance House.

That is another concept of that to say, Hey, yeah, this works.

Yep.

So they work proof, proof of concept, proof of concepts there.

We've just gotta get the price down.

Um, we've gotta work on some things.

So, and we've gotta, we've worked out some efficiencies in

design and structure and size.

They're not big.

They're, they're gonna work.

I think they're gonna work.

Um, they're big enough.

They're no, they're what we should be building.

Um, I think there's just, we've gotta, we've just gotta reset our expectations in

an industry that is expensive right now.

Um, and I,

so I reckon a new trend is.

We build smaller houses.

Yeah, but you, the thing, it's really annoying.

So like I look, I'll use tile and I'm gonna pick on tiles.

This is an easy example.

Clients get shown tiles, they're walking towards to store how many tiles I got to

pick from, say 30 years ago there would've been four tiles you can pick from.

Yeah.

But now there's all this choice and now there's so much choice

and all, they're all different.

And I specked in in, I did a precon recently and I gave him an allowance

of $70 $80 a tile for square meter.

Good allowance.

Yep.

I would pick something that's 120, you are gonna be over budget.

Oh.

But we really like him.

Can you afford it?

Mm, we're already tight in the budget.

Then don't spend it.

Yeah.

It's like this is the conversation that you, we wanna bring it back.

So, hey, we've done our job, we've got you the base price of what works.

You can get a nice, healthy, comfortable, efficient home that's durable.

You know what?

You can add the extra robe in the kids' bedroom in a few years.

It, how about you just go buy a portable robe for a moment that if you move

house as well, you take that with you.

Yeah.

So I think we've just gotta reap, I think, I think construction is

gonna get really how we look at houses is gonna get disrupted.

Architects are quite quiet with work right now, so that flows

onto us in a year with building.

So like where are we?

It's, it's interesting we're I, I'm seeing a little bit of that,

but then I'm also talking to some people that are, um, we haven't felt

as builders yet, because if they're quiet now, that means we're quiet in a year.

Yeah.

Like we takes a, there's a delay.

We're still working on old projects.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So, um, I see that as a change.

What else?

Um, is there anything you see?

I, you know, what I would love to see, I'd love to see more emphasis on us

spending more time outside our homes.

Yeah.

I, I, I'll be open here.

I, there's two things that I've learned probably the last few years.

I never used to value the work.

Interior designers did.

Um, I won't do a project without 'em.

Now, the second I never understood and didn't value what landscapers do.

Designers, designers, architects.

Now I'm just like, how is this not involved in every project?

Yeah,

a hundred percent.

I mean, and let's, let's face it, um, a outdoor room.

Yeah.

Inverted commas is a lot cheaper to build than an indoor room.

And this is where, you know, we go back, circle back to this sort

of getting the team together early in the pre-construction phase.

We're always saying, have you considered your landscape?

From the moment that we come on site and the moment we talk to

someone for the first time, have you considered your landscape?

Yeah.

Why would we do that?

I said, well, 'cause your rooms might change.

Yeah.

There might be a bit of shade in there that needs to be factored

into your thermal modeling.

You know, maybe we can make that room smaller because

I see it's on the northern.

You've got a big living room here.

Shorten that up and make that an outdoor living space.

But you've gotta

put something outside.

You're not gonna just walk around in sludge mud after a construction site.

Exactly.

So have the conversation early.

Um, it's.

You at or at least think about it.

Um, even get a basic concept plan and have a discussion

concept, landscape plan does not cost you much at all.

And I'm talking just placeholders.

Yeah.

Just, oh, oh, we're gonna have that over there.

We need to get some water or point over there.

Yeah.

Place

placeholders.

I, I

think, I think that's a, yeah, I would really hope it's, again, it comes back

to that collaboration early on and hopefully we start to see even more of it.

Um, but again, that's where I see, and I've said it, the

design and construct where you.

It's just a one-stop shop for people.

I think it's gonna be a big, big change.

Who knows who's gonna do it?

what else do I see changing?

Mm. Your

family.

You have another one?

Hopefully.

Who knows?

We're lucky enough.

Um,

uh, I'll tell you.

Ask me.

Yeah, you'd be, no, I'm done.

You'll have the key people move a couple.

I'm just, you know,

we had to upgrade the cars and that's, I, I mean, I'm done.

Yeah.

I, I, I, I have Nicole and I have the, the two child policy

that if you go to Disneyland, you can both be on the ride as of

too.

Do you know what, I'm sorry.

I, I reckon me saying I'm done is wrong.

Do you know what I, I feel, I feel complete now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I feel, I feel like done Two girls, uh, two, two girls.

Two boys and a girl, and

Yeah.

And yeah, I think it, it goes back to enoughness, um.

Yeah.

Look, it's dangerous, dangerous, scary.

Our industry might be right now, I still love it.

Like I really, I actually really enjoy where it's at.

It's challenging.

Um, but I've become immune to the fact of telling clients they

can't afford what they want.

I think it's, I, I. Whether that's a good or bad thing.

Um, I'd rather be super, super honest upfront.

I actually feel like there's, there's, there's been a shift

in an expectation of price now.

Like pe people are expecting a higher price now.

I feel that's become, and the tools

we have that we can price at a concept stage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And look, actually that's probably something to talk on.

So, so, so we, we have a, we now have a multi-pronged

approach in our precon now, um.

Sorry, I don't know your

approach and I reckon we're gonna have the same,

I'm, I'm not even, I'm not even gonna say it's our pre-con 'cause

our pre-construction is when there's, we're working through costings.

We have, which is where we, we say, sits in our sales kind of space.

In the, in the business we have this, um, multi-pronged quick build estimate Yeah.

That we do.

Yeah.

Um, we do one internally and we actually ship one out to a third

party, and then we bring those reports together and for 1500 bucks.

We are getting two independent, um, industry data.

We based off industry data, um, reports on that's benchmarking the

project, and I can speak to this now.

We've had a couple of projects go through from this and now we're costing it again.

And we are presenting one today, which actually has

come bang smack in the middle.

Yeah.

Of where that range is.

I had one too recently.

And it's, it saves the anxiety along the, the way we can, because you

know what I, I say this to clients.

We wanna push you as quickly the way as we can and show that you can't afford it.

If we can cost it.

Borderline a hand sketch stage from the start, rather than us

guessing and potentially undervalue and quoting the building.

Mm-hmm.

We can give industry data that we give them a figure.

We didn't choose that data.

We're just saying, can you afford this?

Yes or no?

No, we can't afford it.

Well then you gotta change the building or out

and just like any tool, 'cause anyone can use these tools that we're talking about,

but just like any tool, yeah, you need to know how to use the tool properly.

Because I have seen people use these particular tools, not well.

And the costs are wildly different

and then they get shit canned and they, and they do it because it

makes it look fine and dandy to get the project along the way.

Yeah, we've lost projects because we've had other builders come in and

say it's gonna be X amount, and I've said it's gonna be higher than that.

We've lost out on that project, and what I find out was exactly the number

we said because the other builder.

I didn't tell the truth.

And uh, well, do you know what actually don't necessarily, well,

they weren't educated enough.

I don't reckon it's them lying or being deceitful or anything like that.

I guess it, it's just not understanding the cost.

We, we have a few check measures that go into the numbers that come back.

Like we are running it through previous projects where we are doing a,

alright, how many square meters is it?

That's a bit under or that's a bit over.

Like, we can, we can kind of sense check it a little bit.

What's the finish?

What's not the finish?

You know, like, say to clients that this is, we're not gonna

contract on this number.

We are giving you a range of where we feel it's benchmarked.

Yep.

If you're not comfortable with this range, then we need to

say, we need to, we need to

change.

And, and we just, we literally just had, and these episodes have come out,

we've had the price supply episode.

Mm-hmm.

We talk about pricing projects.

Yep.

The information's there.

And we had Sarah talked about mortgage broker.

Another thing, if you're a client.

Go speak to a mortgage broker almost before you stack to

your build or a design team.

How much can you spend?

Can how much?

Just how, what can you, can you afford even to do it?

Don't waste people's time.

So anyway, we've gotta wrap this up.

We've got our mindful moment, which we've gotta get to, um, which

we are finishing the end of each podcast episode, uh, at the moment.

So the mindful moment is brought to you by MEGT Australia's apprenticeship experts.

You got anything?

my mindful moment is what I was saying before about the time that I

was spending, like prioritizing my family during this phase of my life.

Yeah.

And it's probably relatable to you too.

And like I was a little bit worried about, um, you know, not being

available at seven and till five.

You know, I was quite concerned about that, but.

Thankful.

Thankfully I've got an amazing team, offsite and on site where it actually

allowed me to be there for my family, and I think the, the, the person who I

feel has benefited the most from it is me because my relationship with Lucy

off the back of this was, was better than what it was when I had Phoenix and

Darcy because I'm much more engaged.

Probably not just with Juniper, but with the, with, with Phoenix and Darcy.

'cause I've picked up that load Yeah.

From her in the morning to get the kids ready now and to go to school.

And I was driving them to school and daycare, now I'm up getting

them ready, fed, lunchboxes, packed, efficient, and then Lucy's taking them.

Yeah.

and I've really thought about this as like a concept and as business owners

it's really difficult for us to just.

Flick a switch and, and do something different or even

switch off from business.

'cause we're never going to, but actually just allowing yourself to

take this time and then saying, this is work time and this is family time now.

Yeah.

So one thing that I've done, which would say is my MEGT mindful moment is, uh,

I actually got rid of my old number and I got a new work phone that is my

office that sits in the office and it gets filtered before it gets to me.

Really?

Yeah.

So no one can really get onto me anymore unless it's filtered through.

And it's awesome because I don't get messages at late at night.

I don't get random calls at stupid time.

I don't get tally marketers selling me shit.

Also respectful to salespeople like they're doing their job.

I hate sales calls, so I don't get that anymore.

Um, I've not getting distracted.

Um, the second work phone has been amazing and it sits in the office

and that's how they can get onto me.

Yeah.

Um, and it just means I'm not getting distracted from certain things.

So that's probably my.

Mindful moment and it's love.

I just use my old iPhone that was lying around.

It just sits on a charger because battery sucks, but I don't need to take it out.

And we just got an LD SIM and chucked it in and it's like $8 a month or something.

We, we have actually, the, the phone number that's on our website

actually go, goes through our CRM now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like if people call that, it's not my personal phone, sorry.

If No, but you're like, like, I, like,

I'm not calling the dentist at 10 30 at night on his personal,

'cause I've got a toothache.

So why call the builder?

Yeah.

At 10 30 at night because you've picked your tap or you

you want to add some cladding.

Like it's, the reality is my clients don't do that.

I'm super lucky, actually, I've got the opposite, where they're like,

oh, you're watching this TV show.

You should watch it.

Like, it's actually, but I, but, and, and eventually you get my personal

number if we get along the way.

Yeah.

I just don't need it early on.

Yeah.

So I agree.

So, yeah.

thanks to MEGT for coming on and sponsoring that segment.

we've got some, we've got some pretty cool ones coming up.

Um, but I think this is awesome.

A little bit more of just me and you.

Yep.

So, but, um, stay safe.

Have fun.

Thanks Matt.

And we'll chat soon.

See you buddy.