So in today's episode, we're delighted to welcome on Chris Benstead from Theory Test Explained to come and have a chat, all things theory test. Yeah, so welcome, Chris, and thank you for joining us today.

to be here. Thank you for having me. We've known each other for too long and not worked together, so I'm very pleased.

Yeah, we're used to seeing you in passing going, so we must talk. And then three months later, we do the same thing again. Yeah. So we've got some time to actually talk to you now, and we're going to talk about theory. Chris, just a quick one, because I get asked this quite a lot. Why is there a theory test?

I don't know. Um, so if, if, if we go with, if we go with the logical reason, everything that we do should be to make the road safer and to make drivers safer. So why is there theory as in why are there rules? It's so that we know what we're doing to make us safe so that we're protecting other people against ourselves. Because they know what to expect, that makes us predictable, and predictable is safer, and then if other people are doing something, we can see the predictable ones and they're not a danger to us, and we can spot the ones that aren't predictable and get out of their way. So, that makes us safer. so, theory as knowledge, as things that are there and rules, that's why it's there. Why is there a theory test to prove that you know those rules, but if it doesn't make the road safer, if you couldn't pass the practical test without knowing the rules, then there isn't a point for it and, except for the fact it will put me out of a job. I would argue that if, if there isn't a point, we should get rid of it. Or, my, my preferred point, bring in something that's really good, which, you know, if anyone is listening who has that ability, I've got it written already, I'll happily, uh, you know, sell it to them. Um, so, I, I think looking at what makes us safer is what we need to be doing with the theory test. So, what, what that results in Is none of us take it seriously enough and then it becomes a problem to people and then that becomes the point that it's a problem and not it's a solution. It's not something to get you there. Um, so we all need to be looking for the good in the theory, and not getting annoyed about the fact that actually some of it is pointless.

Now I know, so when you were talking about that, I love that idea that Making everybody predictable on the road so that you can, you can be predictable and so that you can spot other people who are predictable and you all know what you're doing. That made me think very much about community on the road. That idea that actually you, we all have a bit of a community agreement. almost, to behave in certain ways, act in certain ways, so that everyone knows what they're doing to keep us safe. It's almost like a bit of a dance, isn't it, on the road.

and, I think it's exactly that. It's, it's that thing where it's not about us. And I, I think insurance is a lovely example of this. I only realised this the other day, third party cover, the only thing you're not covering is you. You don't insure your car, you insure the rest of the world against you. Doing something and we all do that. We're protecting other people. It's it's about other people. because the assumption is we're all going to do our best and that's good enough because if everyone does that, we look after each other and, you know, it is, I think when we think about driving, it's a system. As you said, it's a community and we, if we can work together. Actually, you know, you, you do see things that sometimes, you, you question their values of what's important. You talk to that person, they're not deliberately trying to be dangerous, they just have a different view of what safe is. And they're doing it still, so it must have gone reasonably well up to that point. So we're part of that community, just because we're on a different part of that bell curve of what's safe and what isn't. As long as we all End up in a, in a good, safe average position, then, we should all end up relatively safe.

Which is what we're all after, isn't it? At the end of the day, if everyone stays safe, everyone stays happy. Which is always good.

you, you don't have to, you don't have to be perfect, because the lovely thing about that predictability is, as long as you can predictably get it totally wrong, so you're obvious about the fact that you're, you're doing something that, because you misunderstood, or, you know, you didn't see it, or you saw it differently, as long as you can predictably get it wrong, so other people look at you and go, well that's silly, they'll keep out your way. And we haven't got to be optimum all the time. We can have a bad day and still stay inside of that bubble of safety, which I, I like that approach. I think, I think that works, works well.

you're quite right. Everybody does have bad days, for whatever reason. so, why are so many people worried about the theory test?

I think, no one tends to like tests. I think that word is, is very loaded with all of us because it, it's pass fail, it's judgment, it's opinion. It's being told that what you did wasn't good enough. None of those are nice positions to hold, I think if you can get to the point where you realize that every time you don't succeed, you actually learn more. Um, you know, that helps, but it's still not nice. But I think really. We're a bit rubbish at it. I think, if you start with the people whose test it is, the DVSA, the questions are rotten. Some, some of them, some of them are pointless because they're out of date. Um, off the top of my head, my top three, top three pointless questions. Um. Or, you know, the, the information that they're based around. Etching your number plate on the windows of your car, which we used to do in the 1980s, and you can still get the kit at, for 25 at Halfords. Other providers are available. Uh, actually, they're probably not available, it's probably only Halfords that still etching

They got surplus stocks.

Yeah,

I used to do that. For

the police will, uh, there's a roadside. They'll, they'll do it as a service. because it's, it's about making the car less nable. Um, so, you know, it, it's still a thing, but with so many cameras around, it's a bit outdated as, as a method. Similarly, community vehicle watch schemes. I'm not aware of any in the UK anymore, they've all been discontinued, but we still have the question on the theory test. Or we assume we do, it's in the revision questions at least. and then so many other pointless ones to choose from, the questions that are based on what would you do if you were in an impossible situation that won't happen, that aren't based around what would you do to keep yourself safe. And you've got to interpret. A question that you're not going to end up in that situation. There's a few of those. I would say they're kind of my, my top hated questions all topping up batteries. It's a competition between that. Um, yeah, so they're the ones that I just think are a bit. bit pointless and they should be updated. So that's DVSA criticism. The criticism of driving instructors, which I'm always popular for as an instructor, criticizing instructors. Um, but I mean, again, not the individuals, but the industry, the, the collective, the community of instructors. We tend to, the way we're introduced to it as we qualify, is go and do theory on your own and then we'll teach you to be an instructor. So we end up carrying that with us. And we end up saying to pupils, well just go and read the highway code. I hate that, but anyway, just go and read the highway code. And then, with the knowledge from the Highway Code, we'll test your understanding that you haven't been taught, and we'll criticise you for it until you get the minimum standard that's required, and then we'll go on from there. And then just to share out that responsibility, the drivers, whether it is qualified drivers or people taking the theory test, are not necessarily committed to the why, they just want to know, right, just tell me what to do here. And that's fine, until you get to a new situation and you've got to use those skills to adapt. And you've got to be able to transfer that and, and take into account different factors and things. So, yeah, we're all kind of on the wrong side of the theory test. The concept's great, but the actual thing, we, we don't do it very well. And I think because of that, people feel under supported.

me, that's where the links come in to anxiety, nerves, confidence while driving. It's that lack of knowledge and understanding, because you can know something, you can know what that sign means, or you can know what the answer to a particular question is about etching your registration on your. window, but knowing isn't the same as understanding. So it's that understanding the, the underpins, because if you understand why you're doing something in a particular situation, that can be transferred into other situations as well. You filled in that. gap and you know what to do. Because whenever you're stuck in a situation and you're, you go, I don't know what to do, what do I do? Immediately you get adrenaline, cortisol, our brains hate doubt. They hate uncertainty. I mean, I say this so often, don't I? So as soon as there is anything where you go, I don't know what to do, stress, immediately you get stress. So by knowing the why, by getting the understanding, you're taking away a whole factor that could relate to driving nerves and anxiety. The

absolutely. And I think adding on to that, there's that element that we were talking about before of safety that comes from that, because if you, I think that for me, the division between knowing and understanding is knowing it is when you kind of go, yes, in my head, it's got a place and understanding it's then being able to tell it to someone else. So it makes sense to them. And if we reflect that onto the road, if I know what I need to do, it's That doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to understand what other people are doing. So you've got that same knowledge isn't understanding. and there, if you don't know what they're doing, you're, you're on your own and you feel isolated, whereas if you kind of go, do you know what? I'm in the same place as all these other people. And that. Go back to that word, community. Your community, the people that listen to your podcast, are finding other people with the same, you know, challenges that they've got, and the information that's going to benefit all of these, this community, not just them. And there's something about that that makes you feel feel less alone. And if you can feel less alone, you know, um, smile at all the other drivers is something that I regularly say to people. You get some funny looks at traffic lights when you both, especially the driving instructor, both of you sat there grinning out the window at the person next to you. Um, you get a few funny looks, but yeah, you know, do it with a smile. Because a lot of the time they'll join in. Um, and if you feel, you know, act as if. You're supposed to be there. You are a driver. You're entitled to being, comfortable in that position, act as if you are. And, and often that follows as well. But yeah, I think that that whole thing of. they all follow the same thing. It's just that sometimes we feel as, as you say, we, we feel that doubt creep in. And at that point, you know, the someone's pulled the plug and the water's draining out rapidly. You know, it is, what can you do to stop it?

way I explain it Normally make the unknown known

Yeah.

like, what do you mean by that? How if I don't know it, I don't know it, how would you know it what might happen? You know, these are the sort of questions I don't think, you know, when you look at the theory test as it is at the moment, it's like one question, multiple choice. You've gotta take an answer, haven't you? but I know I would quite like to, you know, how would you. I'm at that question slightly differently. If I came to see you struggling with my theory, you know, I can't, how would you adapt that questioning technique the DVSA use? How can we adapt that to help people learn better? I suppose, is a,

you have to do air, air quotes. When you say questioning technique, the DVSA use, um, it, it's, yeah. So my first session, I often might look at a question from the DVSA, because That brings in a whole other world of things. I don't know if multiple choice is good or bad. Because I think if I say to most of the people taking the test, I'm going to take away the multiple choice and I want you to answer it. It magnifies the doubt, because they've got to get it right. But then you can kind of say, but your right doesn't have to be their right. Just because it's not there right doesn't mean yours is wrong. so that allows us to have more understanding because that's more personal at that point. So, there's a question mark over wrong. It's just not right at that time or it's not the one they're looking for. And that's something I find with driving instructors as well. You know, often the driving instructor asks a question with a pre determined answer in their head and it's not the wrong one. It's just not the one that they wanted or the one at the time. So the first thing I do is remove those DBSA questions and just go, let's look at how we can work out what's being asked of us. If we understand the expectation, and we understand what we're trying to achieve, we can better understand how to get there. Otherwise, you've just got someone shouting, do it, at you, and you don't know what it is. that doesn't work. The second thing, it's dependent on the person a lot of the time. I would either get rid of the answers and look at the question. So let them work out from their knowledge and understanding what what does it mean to them? Let's work out. So if it starts with one of my top tips, you know, I kind of start with looking for full stops because. If you've got sentences before the question, they're there for a reason. So, if you work out why they're there, you'll know why they're asking it. So, if it says, it is snowing, then we kind of know it's going to be to do with the fact it's icy. Slippery on the road surface. It's cold. It's white, which could be quite glaring and everything can look the same. So, it could be quite camouflaging as well. It's, if it's falling from the sky, you can't see as well, and you might have pedestrians, particularly children, if the schools are shut, more likely to be where they shouldn't be, because they're having snowball fights in the middle of the road. So if we know that about snowing, that's not a technical thing, that's just snow. If we know that, we know they're talking about that, we've got a better idea of what the answer is going to be, and then we can talk around it, and then we can bring in the answers and go, does it match? And if it doesn't, fine. what now makes sense? How can we connect it? How can we join the dots? Because you're dealing with less. So you've got your big bucket of stuff and then you're going, okay, out of that bucket which bits of information match? And if it matches, it's probably right. Or, the other way round. Get rid of the question. Look at the answers. You're then, instead of trying to find from an infinite number of answers the answer to that question, when you read the question, you know it's one of four. So you've narrowed down the fields. Excusing the pun.

yeah.

Uh, because when I said it, sorry, but you, you, you've narrowed it down to four things. It's got to be one of those four, so now I'm going to feel less worry, less anxiety about whether I know the answer, because do you know what? You know the answer, you just don't know which one of the four it is. So. You're not trying to find your answer, which could be, if you're an over thinker, which is a phrase I question anyway, because no one, no such thing as over thinking. Um, I love thinking. Thinking's great. That's why I don't sleep. Um, so, if you, if you tend to go to the ent degree on, you know, what, what is it they're looking for? How are they trying to catch me out? You know, what is it that I got wrong last time? Um, you end up thinking yourself in a knot. If you do that, answer's first. At the moment, there's no revision stuff for the theory test that does answers first. I've recommended it to everyone I can, so someone will come along with that. But, um, answers first is a really good approach. And it often depends on you, try both, have a look at it, and it's a strategy you can kind of use for a lot of things. It's not just theory is do you look at what's available first and then choose from it or you do you decide what you're what you're trying to achieve and then find what matches? That's my approach to it. And then the other bit is when you get it wrong, don't just move on. Find out why. Learn so that you know more for next time. And every landing is a good landing. So, you know, uh, As long as you reflect, and you use it to make sure it's better next time, and you're honest with yourself, that's the biggest thing. If I could change one thing about the theory, get people to be honest with themselves. And you go, is it that I don't know it? Is it that I don't understand it? Or are there technical words in it that I don't really get? Yeah, the number of people that don't know what a dual carriageway actually is, but will answer questions all day long about dual carriageways, and to clarify, it's a barrier down the middle. That's it. It's none of the other stuff. Don't care how many lanes, I don't care what the speed limit is, it's a barrier down the middle. And that, know what you're talking about, because otherwise, you're gonna have the wrong answer. And

Yeah, so when you get it wrong, don't just find out what the answer was and go, Okay, I'll try and remember that next time, because you won't. It's the trying to understand, why did I get it wrong? And why is that the right reason? See,

had clients that are able to tell me, I don't know what they are, but it's the bottom right one, which when the one word changes in the question, it changes the answer. So, you know, That doesn't work. I call that situational learning. They've learned exactly that one thing, but you can't transfer that anywhere. Um, and unless we're trying to achieve 25%, you just keep saying it's the fourth one. And actually you're better off with the DVSA going for the first one because there's a definite bias. If in doubt, go for the first one. Um, so I do. Yeah, it's, I think sometimes it's that. Oh, and the other thing, mustn't forget this one, know the wrong answers. Is that one of the biggest criticisms I get is, but you teach people 75 percent of the wrong stuff. If they just read the highway code, they know the right stuff. Sometimes knowing it's wrong is a really good thing. So if you're in a driving situation and you look and you don't think it's safe, don't do it. So seeing what you don't like. You might get them beeping horns behind and getting stressed and, you know, pressuring you, which comes from you, not them. But if it's not safe, don't do it. Because I'd rather that they shouted at me than I had a problem involving metal on metal or, you know, it's that. Keep, keep yourself safe. Space is safe. we want space around us. so the same with the theory. Knowing the wrong stuff sometimes could be really useful because you can go, well, it's not that because, of whatever. The one that jumps to mind, it's not a very good one, but one jumps to mind is, um, fog lights. They'll put, fog lights and then put in brackets, Where visibility is more than a hundred metres and you wouldn't use fog lights unless it was less than a hundred metres. That's quite subtle. So spotting, spotting the deliberate mistake, it's the wrong answer, that's why it's deliberate, helps you then stay safe. And again, spotting other people's errors helps you stay safe.

I love that, because we create stories. And it's similar to what you're saying, like understanding or not understanding. and it's a sign that's got a tractor on it. You know, what does that mean? Oh, it's going to be tractors and that's it. Normally, that's that's all you get at. But if you can create a story relating to that tractor, where has he been? What speeds he going? What else might be with that tractor? And that all of a sudden. Creates something that they can remember about a tractor sign, and it's just, it's just trying to do things slightly differently, I feel, rather than saying, if the tractor sign comes up, it's number three, or whatever it is, Yeah, but that, taking it that extra step. So there's a tractor sign, that might mean tractors, so what? So always asking that. What next? So what? What might that mean? And that's, you know, that's all sorts of things, isn't it? It might mean he's round the corner, so I might see him round that hedge. It might mean that there's mud on the road. It might mean all sorts of things. Yeah.

Tractors are an interesting one when you think about the hazard perception, because actually the tractor becomes dangerous when it disappears. So, with all of the other hazards, they will be visible and they will develop. With the tractors, what they tend to do is they disappear, and that's when they develop.

admit the hazard perception is quite interesting on its own, I feel. Well, you've got that whole perception or prediction, haven't you? So there's a whole other, a whole other area you go to there.

It's, it's, it's joining dots. It's exactly what you said about the sign. So if we think of the sign as being knowledge, you, you've been told something. You know that there's a likelihood of tractors. Because someone else had the problem, that's why they put the sign up. We don't put signs up unless we have to. So, someone else has had that problem. They've decided that the solution is, let's stick a sign up. So, they've given you knowledge of a problem. That doesn't mean that you're going to do anything about it. If you ignore it If you don't think about why or, or those connections, there's no understanding at that point. But then if you've got your story around what does a picture of a tractor look like and what do we connect with it, you've got other things. So it might be, if there hasn't been a problem with that tractor, but you're driving down a road and you smell cows, that you think, hang on, cows, tractors, tractors, mud on the road, and you, you slow down because of that connection and you build that bigger picture. And, and really that's what the hazard perception is designed to do. It's to, bump up the, that priority list of the brain and, and get it so that you're more likely to see and engage with. the stuff, because it makes it more important. So when you become a learner driver, you see L plates everywhere. same as when you become a parent, you see babies everywhere. If you're a football fan, your football team or the rival team, you'll spot it a mile off. It's, if it's important to you, then you're going to see it. And I think, particularly thinking about, you know, those that find that they're over stimulated by the stuff that's out there. It's then dealing with it, so that if you see it and you've dealt with it, why would you worry about it anymore? You know, forget it, drive on. and if you can do that, it stops being noise, and it starts becoming useful information. There's a benefit to it. Why would you worry if it's all good?

And you tend to less worry if you smile more.

Yes! Yeah! Absolutely! Yeah, I, I, no, stick a pen in your mouth if you don't think you can manage it, because, you know, force a smile. Um,

there's a piece of research around that.

yeah, it is, it is, you know, if you, it's the same as standing up. So, um, the, the other thing in the car, if you don't feel confident, is to put yourself in a confident driving position. And, you know, body language will follow. same when you go for the theory test. If someone's taking a test, and it doesn't have to be a theory test, any test, if you're going for an interview, all of those factors, as Tracy was saying earlier about the, the sudden flood of You know, doubt hormones and and stimulators in your brain. It is the same thing, but the other way around. We can feel confident. So if you can do that. Again, you're, you're not fighting yourself. that's gotta be a good thing. I never like selling on that bit, because I like solving the, the actual problem of, you know, if you've got a problem with the theory test because you can't answer the questions, come and see me. But what I do is, I help people feel happier about taking the test. And most of the time, that's what gets them across the finishing line. Because they've got strategies in place, and they're not always, is it going to make them safer on the road? It's, is it going to make them more confident when they're taking the test?

Yeah, because there's no doubt. I mean, there's so much research, isn't there, around this. So if we can keep people at a level where logic doesn't disappear, then they're much more likely to perform better and use the knowledge and understanding that they need. Is in their brain. If they are too stressed, then unfortunately, logic shuts down. Retrieval can shut down and yeah, smiling, body language, power, posing all of that. Can it, it can just all add little tiny bits, to really help

You know that you've got the strategies as well. Look at the person next to you, because chances are they are just, you know, shooting and hoping, and you've put the work in. So, statistically, you've got twice the chance of passing that they have. so make yourself that person. It's what the army say about prior preparation and planning. So it is about, you know, if you can go in feeling that you've done, you know, it's. You're still going to get things that go wrong. You're still going to get questions you don't know. You're allowed to get seven wrong on the theory. You're allowed to make fifteen recordable errors on the practical test. In life, you're allowed to get stuff wrong. It's fine. It's what you do with it. And some of my best achievements have been off the back of cocking up, I'm just really good at spinning stuff, when, you know, I'll take it and I'll go, all right, I've learnt from that, let's get there, let, let's move it forwards, and now people get to learn from my mistakes rather than make them themselves,

It's all about that though, isn't it? that lack of preparation. And that's normally in life in general, isn't it, but especially for the theory test, I think, is people's perception of the theory test is, well, it's just common sense, isn't it?

I hate that phrase, yes, I agree.

It's only, it was that simple.

Common sense is the application of prior experience. So, the very fact that you haven't done it before, you're not going to have common sense. You might have prior experience in other areas you can draw across. Once you realize the parallel, you should always record your successes, because then you can look back and go, well, actually, in this situation where I don't know what to do, what did I do previously? If that doesn't work, look at someone else. Or sometimes we don't like looking at ourselves. We don't like seeing ourselves as being successful because that means we've got more challenges up ahead and that's not good. Um, none of us like, you know, being successful. Who would? But it brings on those negativities of what if I get there? Fear of success. So actually, look at someone else and model that behavior of what would they do. And one of the things that I've always done as a practical instructor, dividing the two, because I'm now driving instructor without a car, but as a practical instructor, I always used to say, so what is, or who is a good driver? Not one of them mentioned me, and I'm the one. I'm the one they want to teach them to do it. So, they'll go, my dad, my uncle, my mate, but, and it's always followed by a but, they drive too fast, they drive too close to the car in front, they're really aggressive, they get angry, they're scared, they won't go on the motorway, whatever those things are. Let, let's get a better model to work from. Let's find out what good is and don't over expect from that either. 'cause that's not gonna help you if, if you're trying to be, you know, I, I appreciate this as a podcast, so not everyone can see that clearly. I don't go that regularly to the gym. So I, yeah, I, I'm, I, this is natural. That's what I say? So. if I want to achieve a gold medal at the Olympics, I'm limited on options. Um, that fast walking looks quite fun. Um, I like the technicality, but that might be a bit athletic, to be honest. Um,

Chris, shooting.

yeah, there's that. Point and shoot. Um, you haven't seen me go bowling. It's, it's somewhere else, it's somewhere else's lane. And

do shooting. Don't do shooting

I would, uh, you know, I think that you've got to be realistic inside of what that is. And we take a drive, so you're going to go to the shops and back. Has it got to be perfect? Have you got to get there and get into the space first time otherwise you have failed. Or, can you get there, buy your stuff and get home, and not have broken any laws, not have been unsafe, that doesn't mean you've got to get it right all the time, you're inside of the, you know, the acceptable margins. If you've achieved that successfully, don't sit there and tell yourself you haven't. know, be realistic about this. And again, if you can then have a good model to work to, what is a good drive? What is an acceptable drive? Um, you know, I'm always really honest about my driving. I'm not very good at it. I'm not a natural driver. Became a driving instructor, sat in the car. My trainer said, why do you want to be a driving instructor? And I said, uh, firstly, I'm being made redundant. It's a good reason to be here. I need a new job. but I'm I'm good with people, don't particularly like people, but I'm good with people, and I'm really good at breaking stuff down and making it the simplest level, and it's because I'm not that bright myself, so I have to work hard to make it simple so I understand it, right? That's where I sit, and I accept that. I don't deal, my brain doesn't deal with complicated well. So I can't manage complicated. So I've got to make it nice and simple and bring it down to a level at which I can I can handle those bits going on. And lots of people are like that. I'm just really honest about it. And it's not me being negative at all. It's honest. I have no problem with all of those factors. And interestingly, um, It took me to the age of 43 to get diagnosed as dyslexic, and I know that a lot of those factors are because of how my dyslexic brain needs to deal with information. And it's not that I need it simple, I need it in a way that I understand it. And to do that, because it's not being provided to me, I've got to work it out for myself.

Yeah. It's like you have to break it down into those bite-sized pieces and then create your own new processes that match the way that your brain's wired, isn't it? It's just a different way of. Wiring and processing. It's

which arguably makes me really clever.

a conference.

likes people who go around and say, I'm really clever. So, you know, I'm working to my strengths. make it simple. And I, you know, I, I think that you've got to take that approach with things. And, and I think that's, what's going to make me a good driving instructor at that point. I wasn't one. So, um, and he looked at me and he said, that, everybody says I'm a good driver or I like driving. And I was like, no, I hate driving. That's why I'm going to be a passenger as a job. Cause I drive and. I'm not good at it. Good luck. You're going to be trying to get me through a test that I know I can't currently pass, because, you know, I've had numerous driving instructors dual control me over the years. Um, on an off day. and again, now I know that this is down, down to my neurodiversity, that, um, you know, and I haven't been tested for any of these things, the only unofficial diagnosis I've got is dyslexia, but there could be lots of letters in there, I don't know. But I know the days when I'm not functioning so well, and generally speaking, I avoid driving. and I'm better, by reflecting, I'm better at understanding me, and when I don't drive,

I'm so glad you put that explanation in, because you started off by going, well, I have to break it down into small pieces because I'm not that bright and you probably saw me sort of like stiffen and thinking hang on a minute there's a lot more to this I know that so I'm really glad that you put that explanation in because it's so important for everybody else out there listening Regardless of your neurodiversity, if your brain is not wired in the way to take on the processes as they're being taught to you, then it is that solution of breaking it right down into as small pieces as you can and rebuilding the process in the way that works for your brain and the way that you're wired.

But it, it's that thing of if, if you're not successful with it, it's very easy to feel like it's because I'm stupid, or because I'm not capable, or because I always get it wrong. And, and actually, as, as you said, if you can accept that fact that I need to process this differently, and I think we're much better understanding that, then we can all get a better outcome. Because what you can also do is say to other people. I need a bit of help here. and I, I do that in the car. if I turn the stereo off, it's because I need to focus. I'm not good with music playing and high pressure situations, whatever they might be. I, I was driving in London, this week, and there were a couple of moments when it was just too much. Just, just too much and I need, I needed to narrow things down and deal with what was important. But. You know, in that situation, no way could I have been multitasking. And I had people in the car with me, so I couldn't be talking to them either. But they know that I need, so if the stereo goes off, shut up. You know, let me focus, let me deal with this, and then, and then we can, we can start up again in a moment. and it's doing that. because then you can focus and you can feel in control. So it might be that sometimes you need a bit of comfort. You need, you're lost. You need someone talking you through it. just saying, it's all right, don't worry, everything's fine. Then that's fine. But they need to know When to mute. And it's those, those things, having that awareness of you and how you work is the first step towards being able to do something in the way that works for you. Um, and, you know, I, I, yeah, I say, I say it tongue in cheek because I like to think I've figured out a way to be making use of how my brain works. and, trying to then help other people by using the same thing. Having been there. Especially when I got my diagnosis, things from my past came back and I was like, okay, they were the moments that stood out to me, which some of them were the, you're not good enough moments, when other people had decided it was because I wasn't good enough, not because I had a, a difference of whatever it was. And, and I think those. Yeah, those are the things that have helped make me who I am. They're awesome. It'd kind of be nice to time travel and be able to address this, you know? So I think we have to kind of be really honest about things because that's where we can then actually get hold of them and do something with them. That's for me where it comes from. And that's not an excuse for not being good at driving. Um, that my, my, my excuse for that is my hands and feet don't like doing what I tell them to sometimes. and I need a lot of practice. I need repetition because I learn best that way. That means that if, got a friend who's got one of these, um, fancy disability cars that's got a, a push pull accelerator brake, um, a left foot accelerator, I won't even try, I'm not going near that, um, and a steering ball, and she laughed at me because of the level of concentration that I had to have to, to have a go at driving it. And she sat there with dual control, so it's all good. I, I'm fully aware that I don't deal with changing particularly actions. I don't deal with changing those very well. So, I need repetition. So, if I was to go down that route and start having to drive with The push pull or be teaching with it. I would want to go out and do a lot of repetition of that first. So, you know, I'm very, very in touch with how I need to learn. and I think it's all of those differences and the fact that I've managed to figure them out. it's taken a good few years. Um, then. You can pass that information on and, you know, you can break it down for people and, and they kind of go, Oh, okay. It's not me then, because we get made to feel that it is.

Yeah, absolutely. And if you need to learn in a different way, that's okay. It is just about being, okay, I need to go and learn in a different way. Yeah, it'd be great to be able to go back to teachers, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, those of us of a certain age, you know, neurodiversity wasn't a thing when we were at school. If only I could go back to the maths teacher who kept saying you got the answer right, but you've lost all the points because you've worked it out in the wrong way. It's like, Well, I, your way doesn't make sense. My way makes sense. Yeah, you've got the right

it, you're wrong for getting it right. How, how does that ever makes it, you know, and, and, and that's the thing that most of the massive developments in the world where we've taken a leap forward with something we found a solution, you know, that there are people there. So, yeah, absolutely.

We've gone off on a neurodiversity tangent. It is just unavoidable at the moment. It's like you said earlier, when there's something that you're interested in that, you know, you see it everywhere. So whether it's your football team or whether it's neurodiversity. Tea, so inevitably we, we moved to, it's going to be though, isn't it? Because again, whether it's a theory test, um, a driving test or just driving or life, it's all relatable, isn't it?

And neurodiversity is probably. just another term for people diversity, isn't it? Really? Because we, we are what's in our heads.

Yeah. Yeah.

That, that's, that's what makes us, us. And it therefore means that anything where you're dealing with you. anything where you're dealing with other people, that's almost all that's relevant, is who are they. Whether you're trying to sell them the latest, you know, the latest gadget, or whether you're trying to help them develop a skill, or whether you're trying to help them undevelop a skill that's been protecting them adversely, like, you know, anxiety. It all comes from a good place. it's just got too much and you need to kind of unpick it a bit. All of those things. That, that's where you've got to start with, is with you, you know, start, start there. So, yeah, I, I, I think there, there's not a line anymore, and I love that. I just think there's still people being let down by education. Um, you know, and that's so often where I end up then stepping in, is it's the people who've been told, these are the things you're not good at, rather than these are the things you need to be good. Or the approaches you need to be good. Um, So, Yeah, I think that's where this massive hurdle of theory test comes in the way. It's a real thorn in the side of people because of all of those reasons. And actually it's not that difficult. The facts, driving is pretty simple. And that's where annoyingly you get this common sense thing from. Because you get it from the people that have They figured it out. It's like, I've been doing this for 40 years. What do you mean that you can't do it when you've only been doing it for five minutes?

So before we talk about where people can find you, when we first invited you on, was there anything that you thought, great, I really want, I hope they ask me about? This, or there's something that I really want to say, is there anything that we've missed in our conversation? Oh,

the opportunity to say how much I love the stuff that you do because we haven't, engaged and work together enough. Because it's it's right up my street. as you can tell, they're they're the things that I think are important. So thank you. It's the opportunity to be here is awesome. With regards to the theory, the more I can shout about the fact that learning before revising is the key, know your stuff, and then see whether you can pass the test. You know, start there. There is stuff out there. you can get help, and that doesn't have to involve a theory test. So, if you are someone who is, is out driving, and you don't feel that you know enough, come and do a theory session. You know, get a driving instructor who can work it through with you. in a nice practical way of going, you know, what's the situation for me, aside from stupidly worded DBSA questions or whatever it is, just the practicalities of it, of going, do I have enough in my, my toolkit to be able to, to then feel that I am being safe? Because. That void is, is often where things sit. Um, driving instructors, be it theory test or what they call the proper job, practical, are there for everybody, they're a resource that gets underused by qualified drivers, find, find a nice one and go out and, and, Work on things that way. That's my my message. Whether I'm the solution or I can point people in the direction of other ones. I just want us to be making the world a bit better. So, um. You know, which sounds trite, but it's true. I, I just, I'm fed up with talking to people that are, not being given the opportunity because there's not a resource there. So, you know, it's about making those resources more visible and, you know, um, and anyone who's listening has done a really good job because they've found you already. So they're clearly on the right track.

absolutely. Thank you. to our listeners. Yeah. For listening. So how do people find you, Chris? Great.

The easiest way is, theorytestexplained. co. uk or chrisbenstead. co. uk, but my name hasn't got an A at the end, so people spell it wrong, I can't find it on Google. And you end up with a bodybuilder who You know, based on what I said earlier, that's not me. Um, so, uh, so yeah, TheoryTestExplained is often the easiest one. Uh, co. uk, and say, get in touch with any, any questions around that side of things. I'm always happy to, you know, I know most resources that are out there. Uh, I can point people in the direction of them. It hasn't got to be, they want my services, but if they do, I'm here and I'm always happy, to try and provide. But yes, that's, that's probably the easiest.

Brilliant. So, Chris, thank you so much for joining us and giving up your time and I'm sure that people will find that incredibly helpful. It's been, it's been great.

It's lovely. Thank you. I've, I've enjoyed the chat.