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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What if the key to healing your body is learning to listen to its deepest messages? In today's episode, we explore how radical self-responsibility and holistic modalities can help you reclaim your health, rewire your story, and inspire transformation for yourself and those you love.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the UWorld Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life, health, transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change that they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the Coach's Alchemist, on a mission to help coaches and entrepreneurs amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible leveraging podcasts and Substack.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today, we are chatting with Penny Kroll.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Penny is a passionate mind-body connection coach dedicated to walking alongside those ready for radical wellness. With a background in EFT, matrix re-imprinting, NLP, and metaconsciousness, she empowers individuals and practitioners alike to take ownership of their healing journey.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Through her community, she shares powerful tools, supportive guidance, and a vision of health.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: as a conscious choice. Whether you're seeking radiant health for yourself, or wisdom to help others, she's here to help you get present, get curious, and get well. One breath at a time. Welcome to the show, Penny. It's great to have you with us.

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Penny Croal: Yeah, I'm really excited, Jill. Thank you for having me.

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Penny Croal: And let's go, let's do this, let's have a deep dive!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, so let's ask you the big question.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?

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Penny Croal: Well, I think the first thing is… is about building community, co-regulation, and in that community and co-regulation, we'll find safety.

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Penny Croal: And I know a lot of people are not going to like what I'm going to say next, because everybody's talking about love.

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Penny Croal: But we cannot love without safety. We cannot feel that love without the safety. We cannot give the love without the safety.

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Penny Croal: So building these communities and understanding

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Penny Croal: Perhaps we will never understand each other, however, understanding our own bodies in that safe moment.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that, and it is so true. We… we spend so much time

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: wrapped up in fear, and trying to deny that we're experiencing fear, which causes all kinds of havoc in our bodies, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It… to me, it's interesting to see communities evolving in different spaces.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And in some ways, they're… they're age-based, I'm finding, for me, at this stage of my life. I'm finding women who are in their 50s and 60s and 70s and beyond, really, instead of just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: shutting up and sitting down, like we've been told to for so many decades now. They're… they're embracing the point that they are in their lives, and recognizing they have so much wisdom to share, and they're refusing to just go quietly into the night, sit on that ice flow, and…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: carried out to sea and die a miserable death and get eaten by the sharks, or whatever. You can see where my fears come from.

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Penny Croal: But I think you've hit a great point there about the fear, you know, the fear of aging. So, I've noticed there's a lot of talk about longevity, but what's longevity if we don't feel safe? Are we just living for the sake of living, or do we want

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Penny Croal: To actually embrace that life, and embrace the person we were born to be.

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Penny Croal: I think that's so beautiful that you… you brought up the fact that we haven't been allowed… I don't know about, well, your schooling, but my schooling in Scotland was…

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Penny Croal: I'm 60 now, so children are seen, not heard. You sit down, shut up, write down what we've told you, and that's it. If you ask too many questions, you'll be sent out of the class, because you're disruptive.

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Penny Croal: Well, now I'm the disruptor, and I want to bring together all the other disruptors.

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Penny Croal: And talk about whatever lights up your, you know, your heart, your…

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Penny Croal: Your law is wherever it lights up. Let's talk about that. Let's be the disruptors.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's needed. The world is… it…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The old paradigm of sit down and jet up, don't daydream, only give us the answers we tell you to give us, because everything else is wrong.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: don't imagine anything beyond this black and white world I'm trying to deliver to you. It's interesting to me, it's just coming to me that, you know, we had black and white television in the 50s and 60s, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that was really how the world was. It was black and white. You were told what to think, and where to go, and how to behave, and… and if you were outside the box in any way, especially as girls.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Growing up, you just sort of, like, there was something fundamentally wrong with you, you were bossy, you were pushy, you were masculine, like, that was… you're gonna ruin your femininity.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What the heck cares?

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Penny Croal: We actually talk about this a lot, about how, a lot of my clients, and myself included.

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Penny Croal: came into this holistic therapy world with a lot of anger, and I was never allowed to share that anger as a child, because I was a little girl. So, back to that old nursery rhyme, you know, little girls are made from sugar and spice, and little boys are made from worms.

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Penny Croal: I've forgotten now what the rhyme is.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Subs and snails and.

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Penny Croal: Oh, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: tails.

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Penny Croal: Thank you, you see, you know it already. But what's really interesting is, by the time we're adults, we're in the boardroom, or in a relationship, and we get angry.

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Penny Croal: And we don't know how to express that anger. And so we internalize that anger, or we burst into tears, or, then we are suppressing ourself even more. And where's the safety in the internalization of

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Penny Croal: anger, because then it will evolve into self-hatred, I'm not good enough, I can't do this, I can't… because we've never been taught to co-regulate.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we've been taught that crying is somehow fundamentally wrong or weak.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: When… really, you know, there is nothing more powerful than a woman with tears running down her face, standing there.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Stating her truth with all of her being.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's… that's not weakness. That's strength.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're not men.

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Penny Croal: I also grew up, … you've just triggered a thought about my own, growing up, that my mother

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Penny Croal: it was a weakness in our house to be ill. So my mother…

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Penny Croal: Would, when she was diagnosed with angina, and she would faint.

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Penny Croal: She'd rather think people thought she had a drink, and she was teetotal.

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Penny Croal: But that was more acceptable than having a heart condition.

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Penny Croal: It's not interesting.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That is really interesting.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… it's just, like, the pressure from the outside that we… We have to be…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: This unrealistic version of a human being that… Nobody is all anything.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yeah, they're not all good, they're not all bad, they're not all beautiful, they're not all ugly, they're not all anything. We are just beings having an experience. And when we have to, like, conform to these

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Expectations that…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: are put on us by almost an invisible force, because it's not really our parents or society, it's… there's… there's some outside force that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that push them to make us the way we are. You know, nothing just has… an original start.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In my worldview. I… like….

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Penny Croal: But this is the epigenetics, isn't it? You get ill, you go to the doctor.

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Penny Croal: And yet in ancient times, going back to woman, the ancient woman would have the herbs and the knowledge and the ancient wisdom to sit.

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Penny Croal: To sit and listen.

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Penny Croal: And we have not been… Taught, or allowed, or given permission to listen to our own bodies.

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Penny Croal: It's almost as if, going back to that little child, little children don't come up and go, oh, I'm feeling angry. They'll say, I've got an upset tummy, or I've got painful tummy.

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Penny Croal: And, of course, that shut down. And so, we've stopped… it's like the mobile phones.

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Penny Croal: they've almost stopped our intuition, our connectedness. I mean, technology is great, because otherwise I wouldn't be speaking to you now, tonight.

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Penny Croal: But where does it hinder, and where does it expand us?

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Penny Croal: And when we shut down that inner wisdom, then…

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Penny Croal: We're denying our own self to be who we are, and the fear just builds, because something goes wrong in our body, we go to the doctor, and then the doctor diagnoses us, and we make that a meaning of death, of imprisonment, of whatever that meaning is for each other.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We give it meaning.

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Penny Croal: Yeah.

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Penny Croal: And that meaning, what does it mean? What does cancer mean? What does lupus mean? What does COVID mean? What does, all of these long chronic diseases mean to each and every one of us?

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Penny Croal: So… I… a lot of my clients, …

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Penny Croal: I don't know about you, Jill, but I haven't met anybody yet that hasn't had somebody, a member of the family, a friend, who's been diagnosed with cancer. And our wording, even, about the cancer is, she has to fight it, or he has to fight it, …

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Penny Croal: God, that's… that's exhausting in itself!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I have my thoughts about cancer. They're really socially acceptable to….

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Penny Croal: Well, I'm laughing not because it's funny, because this is my speciality, working with cancer, and the first thing is, I explore with the client what their beliefs are about work.

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Penny Croal: And about the advertising, and about, medical, …

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Penny Croal: views, because it's… and I'll say modern Western medical views, because…

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Penny Croal: All of the whole world has the same views. But we've tried to be funneled into… This….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Junny-making machine.

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Penny Croal: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and it…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: certain industries prey on people's fear of dying, and cancer is, like, the best way, because it's so scary. They've gotten it to the point where they can get you to do things that will

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Are more likely to cause problems than to catch Any evidence of cancer.

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Penny Croal: I mean, it's….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Just….

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Penny Croal: And we're back to that fear again, because fear is the biggest controller.

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Penny Croal: and… When these souls have been diagnosed.

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Penny Croal: I have witnessed that they're more than likely, if they've got a massive fear about the wart cancer, to have then a secondary cancer because of the diagnosis. Now, there are some people that have been found to have quite a lot of different cancers, but

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Penny Croal: So, the way that I view this through a metaconsciousness is that the fact that in an emotional conflict, our body is simply endeavouring to adapt and survive.

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Penny Croal: And that's going against every single grain of

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Penny Croal: what the media are saying, what radio are saying, what medical, Western medical, not all, but the vast amount of Western medical, that medical model.

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Penny Croal: So, I love doctors and love nurses because we need them, but the medical model is funneling more fear, and it's creating more fear.

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Penny Croal: And creating imprisonment rather than the freedom of reclaiming our own body, and understanding what the heck is going on. Because it can be fearful.

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Penny Croal: And this is where we need that safety.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But we do, and our bodies are so powerful, we…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: we don't give our bodies the credit that they deserve. It's like, you know, we don't go and look for

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, I guess we're starting to, but in the wild.

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Penny Croal: You know, if you had a whole herd of buffalo on the plains.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The Indians didn't go out and take their blood pressure, and give them chemicals, and make sure that they were eating right, and maybe the diet that they were eating naturally wasn't the best diet they could have, and maybe they could, like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Give them something else! Never mind that that's something else they weren't really designed to have that way. Or the implications of doing these procedures

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Long-term to these animals that they were going to eat.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: would have on them. I was just like… And to me, cancer is…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I think there's been some evidence that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: has shown this to be more accurate than maybe the model… some of the other models that are out there, that cancer is actually a mechanism of defense for your body. You're encapsulating poisons, or toxins, or emotions in some cases.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That your body just doesn't know how to deal with.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Fat is another thing that does that in our bodies. When you lose weight, you can have emotional, repercussions from that, and you can have, physical

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: … Experiences?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: As the toxins are released from your body, or released from the fat cells, It's just so, like…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Our bodies are so amazing, and so few of us have any clue how they actually function.

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Penny Croal: I know! And it's quite interesting that you're talking about the… in the animals in the wild, because there is a myth that animals in the wild, don't have cancer, and it's only a human thing. That's not true.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Everything does.

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Penny Croal: Yeah, I have a… I remember, I was about to say, call him a friend, and I thought I'd better stop there, because he's not really a friend, but in my head he is, because I talk to him a lot, is… he's a zoologist, and he was telling me that

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Penny Croal: Lines in Serengeti have been found to actually have had cancer, and the reason why

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Penny Croal: Is that they… if they eat a bone, and the bone doesn't digest in their stomach, the cancer will grow.

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Penny Croal: To actually digest that bone that's stuck.

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Penny Croal: But when the cancer has done its job, then the little…

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Penny Croal: microbacteria like TB comes along, and… …

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Penny Croal: starts eating away the tumor, because it's no longer needed. And I know that in certain countries, they're experimenting with injecting these small macrobacteria, like measles and TB, back into the cancer cells.

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Penny Croal: You don't have to do that if you have the right diet to support and remove the emotional conflict.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So….

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Penny Croal: If a human being has cancer in their stomach, what can you not digest?

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Penny Croal: Because we're all about metaphors, and the difference between human mammals and mammals in the wild is that we, as we… you said, give things meaning. We're storytellers! We love a good story, don't we, human beings?

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Penny Croal: And we attach ourselves to that.

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Penny Croal: And once the lion's tumor has gone, it might vomit, Some… yucky stuff.

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Penny Croal: Or poop it out, and you'll see blood, and they'd have no…

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Penny Croal: idea what that is, because they don't give it meaning, and they go on. And as long as they have the vitality, and they're… they're, …

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Penny Croal: pack animals. I was about to say herd animals and thought, no, they're not herds, Penny, they're, they're big pussy cats. They have that community, so going back to that community.

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Penny Croal: Isn't it interesting about age again? Sorry, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, Joel, so please stop me, is the Blue Zone. I'm fascinated by these parts of the world that are all very hot. I've noticed this, they're all very hot on…

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Penny Croal: Above our… my geography is not good, so I won't go into where they're above and below the equator. But they all live over 100,

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Penny Croal: And they all live with compassion, community, and they all keep active.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes.

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Penny Croal: Back to safety!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And community and staying active.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, we see these old movies where people would go to bed, and then they would die.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In Western society, People retired to their lounge chair in front of the television set, to die.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And if you… If that's you, I… you…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Your time is limited. Get up, move around, walk around the block, meet somebody, have a conversation, a random conversation with a stranger. It will do your body good.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The moon.

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Penny Croal: The more that we isolate.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The more we're dying inside.

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Penny Croal: And having these conversations, or…

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Penny Croal: going to the park to play chess, or going to learn a new dance, or, … I think America is great for this. You're very active. In my…

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Penny Croal: In my imagination, this is how Americans live, that you all go out, and you all have these, but in the UK, we're a little bit more, oh, you're… oh, you're starting Tango, Penny, at your age?

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Penny Croal: Yep!

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Penny Croal: I'm… I'm only 6 feet apart!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's where you were supposed to start, Tango!

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Penny Croal: You're… you're trying to be sexy at 60? I am sexy at 60. No, I… but, ….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think I'm more sexy at 60 than I was at 20.

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Penny Croal: This is….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'll put it out there. I have… I own my sexuality way more. I used to be worried about what I look like all the time. Now.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't care. It's just who I am. This is how I'm shaped.

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Penny Croal: At 20, I wouldn't leave the house without makeup to go to the supermarket.

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Penny Croal: Now I'm… people go, oh, are you wearing that? Yep, I'm… yeah, it's my… my, Alibaba trousers. And I feel really… nobody ever says anything to me, or if they do, look oddly, I don't really care. And I think that is about reclaiming who we are.

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Penny Croal: I think 60 is the new 40, or 30.

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Penny Croal: Because I'm far more confident now.

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Penny Croal: And also, because I had a lot of limiting beliefs. I don't know about you, Jill, as a coach, you know, these limiting beliefs are…

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Penny Croal: Ugh.

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Penny Croal: For these limiting the beliefs for a woman.

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Penny Croal: And to reclaim that, yeah, we have the… rights, too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I love some of the… the role models that we have these days. Older women… Kathy Bates comes to mind, where she had… she… in, …

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Meg… Magnolias? Something magnolia.

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Penny Croal: Oh, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So she's like, I'm older, and I have better insurance. Yeah.

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Penny Croal: Was that, was that the fried green tomatoes?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, yeah, one.

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Penny Croal: Do you know I watched that movie, and I did… I was on a training, and I was telling everybody about her character, and one woman said, didn't they, kill somebody and eat them? And I went, completely missed that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That was the whole point of the movie!

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Penny Croal: Yeah, they just looked at me, and I went, well, you know, I was just thinking how strong these women were coming together.

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Penny Croal: They killed somebody, and I went, oh.

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Penny Croal: Okay, I might have to watch that movie again.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Like, not to the end when you really found out about it, and you could totally miss it, because the characters were just, like…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We need people like you. We need… we need…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The world to realize that just because you're an older woman.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Doesn't mean you're not of great value.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… We're not to be underestimated.

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Penny Croal: And we can all choose, going back to the choice of health, to be the protagonist of our own story.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Guess we can.

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Penny Croal: And…

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Penny Croal: to reclaim that… that role, I think, is just an expansion of our brain. And I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent, because today I found this article that they found… I think it's an article from Germany, I could be wrong.

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Penny Croal: But they've found that, actually, in the somatic cortex, where they've said the aging, this… the cortex thins and it thins, well, no, part of the somatic cortex actually thickens.

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Penny Croal: And so, it goes back to, if you don't…

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Penny Croal: use it, you lose it. So, if that is possible in one part of the brain, what's the possibilities of…

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Penny Croal: Oops.

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Penny Croal: Keeping on growing the brain, rather than letting it thin and diminish, which is all part of our health.

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Penny Croal: Because the cortex is all about our movement, and our…

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Penny Croal: Communication, and community again, and connection, and separation, and…

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Penny Croal: Being discerning about who we want to be with, as well.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think that's really important, too, because… the people…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I wouldn't even say people, the beings that you surround yourself with, which can be animals, it could be plants.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: plants give off energy. Things that give off energy affect us, and they affect our health, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the way we think about things, and I've…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I went on a hike over the weekend.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It was a 4-mile hike, it was not going to be any big deal. I walked 3 miles every day, but this was…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: This was, … Kinda, like, straight up.

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Penny Croal: So really, you're rock climbing by the sound of it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it was moderate for mountain goats.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: For older women, it was… fairly difficult!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're walking 100 feet, I'm sitting panting for 20 minutes, and we're walking 100 feet!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It took me 3 days to recover.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I still struggle going down the stairs. I'm looking My husband would… When did this happen?

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Penny Croal: Yeah.

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Penny Croal: Yeah, and it is about building up that resilience. You know, Dan Siegel talks about it in a motor level as a window of tolerance, but it's also, we have that physically. I, …

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Penny Croal: Because I've been very sedentary, actually since lockdown, I've been very sedentary, I've actually joined a gym, which I said I'd never do, but never say never, and I'm doing, resistant weights.

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Penny Croal: And, I went in, my ego was a little bit bigger than my muscles, because I went, yeah, I used to, do this all the time, and then went…

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Penny Croal: Oh, this is… right, okay.

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Penny Croal: But we have that muscle memory, and I'm… it will…

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Penny Croal: So, I'm being a little bit slower, and I'm on my little trampoline, …

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Penny Croal: Again, before I go back to the gym, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You get older, you have to make some adjustments. Things from year to year don't maybe work exactly the same as they did last year.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it doesn't mean you have to quit altogether, you just have to maybe slow down.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Work up to it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it doesn't mean it… can never happen again for you. And some things, maybe you decide that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you're not… you're not doing it anymore. I went skiing.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: again, for the last time when I was in my mid to late 50s, and I skied a lot in my life, but I… it was like, no, this is just dangerous at this point in my life. I… I'm… I'm not in…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the kind of shape that I need to be in to be safe and do this. And as you get older, you do need to think about, you know, can I do this safely, or how can I do this safely?

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Penny Croal: Really?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… Start slow, but don't stop, just….

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Penny Croal: Yes.

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Penny Croal: And because I hear people as well saying, well, you know, my hips aren't the same.

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Penny Croal: well, or I've got arthritis.

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Penny Croal: And there are choices. We can heal these. Arthritis doesn't come along, it's not married to age.

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Penny Croal: Inflammation is not married to age. It's our body attempting to heal itself, but it's just got stuck.

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Penny Croal: Because we are being re-triggered, and so we're kept in that hamster wheel of… of life.

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Penny Croal: And I've had lots of women, and my practitioners have worked with women to… and they have healed themselves. We're not healers, we don't call ourselves healers. But taking and reclaiming our own bodies, and…

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Penny Croal: Inviting women to have sex again at 70 and 80.

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Penny Croal: That is… That's where I'm aiming for.

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Penny Croal: You didn't expect me to bring in….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's so much better when you're older. I just, like… when I was young, sex was one of those things where…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: God, I hope I don't get pregnant. God, I hope I don't get pregnant. You know, that's what went through my mind when I had sex.

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Penny Croal: What's up.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… and now it's like, there's no chance that's happening!

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Penny Croal: Yes! We can totally relax and be in the moment.

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Penny Croal: And we know our bodies better. Well, hopefully we do, and we've explored our own bodies, and found the bits that we like and the bits we don't, and we can have a communication with our partners.

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Penny Croal: That is just, again, bringing back health, and it… I love this, because I chatted about this the other day to a client.

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Penny Croal: When she said, oh my god, I can have multiple orgasms now, and I said, you know, these are healing peaks. In some modalities, they call them healing crises. I don't like the crisis, because it just brings more fear, but that healing peak where…

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Penny Croal: Our body's letting go.

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Penny Croal: And she went, oh my god, it was like bonfire night! Fireworks! And I went, isn't that just amazing? And she went, yeah, and she said, I've been married for 25 years, and my husband went, what on earth just happened there?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because she's been releasing all these emotional conflicts.

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Penny Croal: She's now at home with her body.

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Penny Croal: And… She was relaxed in that moment, after 25 years still.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not helping.

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Penny Croal: And she's making up for it now.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's… I'm telling you, if you're out there and you're a young woman.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Old age is… it's something to be looked forward to. It's not something to be feared, and your body is gonna be… whatever it's gonna be. There are things you can do to… to really support it, and I know that Penny

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: helps in this area, in terms of helping you come to terms with where you are in your life, and… and how to…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to… Work with your body in order to heal it, rather than

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What things you can take to mask whatever things you're feeling.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, tell us about how that coaching looks, Penny.

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Penny Croal: So, basically, we start with…

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Penny Croal: whatever symptom that you have, whether it's mental, and I don't like the word mental, I'd be, …

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Penny Croal: Prefer to call it behavioural.

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Penny Croal: Because, in my perspective, everything is a behavior, and our bodies are endeavouring to adapt. Likewise, physically, what are the symptoms? And so we dive deep into the symptoms, and understand your language, your metaphors of your body.

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Penny Croal: So, that symptom, what is it doing biologically? What is your metaphor that you're using for that part of the body? Because your body's no longer just whispering, going.

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Penny Croal: I've got a bit of a headache or a hangover, it's… when you have a chronic disease, it's screaming at you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And….

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Penny Croal: When we disentangle these, a bit like the fairy lights in the attic, we put them away one Christmas, and we think, yep.

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Penny Croal: We've all tidied them up, and we bring them down the next Christmas, and they're all in a muddle. And that's what we are like in our unconscious. We get muddled.

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Penny Croal: With that, but the unconscious is just going, please listen to me, please, I'm trying to tell you something. Stop taking the aspirin or the… because you're just pushing us back into stress and trying to mask these symptoms.

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Penny Croal: And I'm not… so I've made it very clear, I'm not anti, medication, but when we continue to mask and mask and mask, it's not serving us.

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Penny Croal: And it's gonna bite us in the… Bottom.

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Penny Croal: I wasn't very sure what word to use there.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: ass. It's gonna bite you in the ass, just don't do it.

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Penny Croal: Yeah.

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Penny Croal: So, we disentangle that, and once we find the root cause of what has actually started that process.

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Penny Croal: Because it could be a protest that the body's saying, no, enough, enough, listen to me.

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Penny Croal: And then the body will go from sympathetic.

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Penny Croal: Into parasympathetic with the healing peak. We'll come out of the living in the fight-flight.

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Penny Croal: Push is natural, by the way. Our sympathetic, our polyvagal nervous system is doing exactly what it should. It's not doing anything wrong. We are creatures that we need.

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Penny Croal: to look around for… for danger, but not live in it, in the microwave society that we've all created, because we've been the most domesticated animals, more domesticated than my little Persian cat.

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Penny Croal: I mean, she has freedom now, and she had a near-death experience.

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Penny Croal: that… dissolved in…

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Penny Croal: two hours. But human beings, we're caught in that prefrontal cortex of stories, and the more intellectual we are, the more we live up there!

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Penny Croal: And I always joke with my intellectual clients about, well… If we get you…

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Penny Croal: From here into our bodies, then that's the first step. But it's not safe for a lot of us to fill our bodies.

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Penny Croal: So, but before….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: For so many years not to.

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Penny Croal: Yeah.

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Penny Croal: And what does our body mean for us?

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Penny Croal: Because we have to… we think we have…

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Penny Croal: I love Stephen Porter's take on the, we think, therefore, I am, or I am because we think. You know, who are we in this? So…

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Penny Croal: And who… have we… who were we born to be? So, basically, disentangling with…

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Penny Croal: modalities that are suitable for each person. I'm not a great lover of saying, one modality for you,

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Penny Croal: No. It's up to the client, and we will… it is like doing the cha-cha-cha, or the tango, actually, in the healing process. And it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, we can have a bit of laughter, and…

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Penny Croal: the client will understand themselves, that soul, with their solution plan. So… That's as simple as that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It sounds like you give people options that they might not have even known existed.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's not, like, one size fits all. Do you do it in groups, or do you do it one-on-one, or do you do a combination?

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Penny Croal: I do a combination. For the terminal illness, I normally work one-to-one, but I hold lots of trainings,

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Penny Croal: I'm hosting a menopausal training because there's so many people, women, that are trapped in the menopause world.

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Penny Croal: And what… that in itself is a whole other thing, because none of the medication is really…

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Penny Croal: Trials on women, trialled on men.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You're not broken, okay?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just a different phase in your life. Your body functions differently. You're not the same as you were when you were 25 or 35, or even 45 for some women.

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Penny Croal: appropriates.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You don't need to procreate, and you don't… your body…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Doesn't need all those hormones running around the way they were running around before. And yes, you're going to be a little heavier, you're not gonna look like the little twig you looked like when you were young. Get over it. You need some weight on your body. As older women, you don't need to be gigantic, but…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you look

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Through history, as women got older, and, you know, women didn't used to live as long as we live now.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They needed more weight on their body, because it protects your bones. When you fall. You've given up. If you've had children, you've given up minerals. You've given up bone density from having children. Your teeth

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: have given up calcium. Your vision has changed. All of these things are part and parcel from giving birth.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to animals, and giving birth causes your body to shift. You're….

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Penny Croal: Ow.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just how the species evolved.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's nothing wrong with you!

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Penny Croal: That's what we're constantly doing!

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Penny Croal: As a species, we're constantly adapting and evolving, and… 2… To be the, you know… Rather than…

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Penny Croal: Were we actually born to get up, have, …

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Penny Croal: Go to school, go to university, have 3.2 children, 5 cars on the… on the…

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Penny Croal: with the picket fence, and… no, not everybody was born. I don't… I chose not to have children.

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Penny Croal: That's my… my choice.

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Penny Croal: Other people have chosen to have 4 or 5 children, great!

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Penny Croal: But let's BE that person.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Your body still is going to adapt in ways that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: As a species, being a female.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You still move along those… that path.

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Penny Croal: It's not like you're gonna continue to look like you did when you were 25.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just that… it's like, when you're 25, do you want to look like you did when you were 5?

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Penny Croal: And get out into the sun, even for 15 minutes a day, that will stimulate your pineal gland, and it will stimulate the vitamin D, which is actually a hormone, it's not really a vitamin, and that will…

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Penny Croal: Help your whole health.

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Penny Croal: So, I mean, I could chat about this.

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Penny Croal: just woman, and health, and… Also, you know, I work with a lot of men who also have issues, and again, that weakness and the lack of safety, of crying as a man, of being weak, and…

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Penny Croal: … Again, it's simply behavioral of these emotions, and we all have emotions.

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Penny Croal: My cat has emotions, and she tells me off when she gets pissy at me.

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Penny Croal: And she will… yeah, she will hit, you know, she won't go, yeah!

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Penny Croal: That's an emotion! And I allow her to do that, and then I go and find out what she's… I don't speak cat language yet, even after 15 years.

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Penny Croal: But we are mammals, and even tortoises have emotions.

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Penny Croal: And their little nerve endings are in their shells. We need connection, so even if you're not having the sex, go and have a massage.

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Penny Croal: Go and have that touch, because we need that stimulation, we need that self-soothing, that connection.

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Penny Croal: Gosh, Jill, I could speak to you for hours, ….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes, this has been an amazing conversation, Penny. I've really enjoyed having you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: … You… you do have, … Courses that you offer people.

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Penny Croal: Yes, I do. I've got numerous courses. I, run EFT tapping courses, matrix reimprinting, which is an evolution of tapping, but more elegant, about… it's like parts. I also run the menopause course, and I run a…

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Penny Croal: a master's program in metacons to explore… so people can…

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Penny Croal: Find the choice of how to heal themselves.

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Penny Croal: And you can either become a practitioner at the end of it, but there's a lot of case studies, so you don't have to do them, or you can come for your own journey. A lot of my… the practitioners that have done the, 12-week course, which is really a little bit longer.

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Penny Croal: Because I do add-ons, to support. It's not like the NLP courses, that you do the NLP and then they spit you out, and you're on your own flat…

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Penny Croal: That was luck with that. Yeah. So there's a large community, we have masterclasses and support.

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Penny Croal: But a lot of the practitioners that have come on have gone, yeah, I've done the NLP, I've done this, I've done that, and I go, yeah, yeah. And then they go, oh my god, I didn't realize this, because it's really digging deep into who we are, and…

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Penny Croal: From our behavioural ways, our personalities, how our… the symptoms are all an expression of the body.

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Penny Croal: So, that's why my substack is called Beyond Symptoms.

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Penny Croal: So, it's not just looking at the symptom, it is inviting everyone to become who they were born to be.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And people can find your courses over on IMCA.info, as well as subscribe to your Substack and get

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Weekly, at least.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: information and articles and Penny's thoughts on what's happening in the world at beyondsymptoms.substack.com, correct?

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Penny Croal: That's right. And… I, …

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Penny Croal: Yeah, I'm a fairly technophobe, so ask me about the brain and the body. I can speak for hours. As soon as you said Substack, I went….

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're gonna help you with that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So that's where I shine.

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Penny Croal: Yeah, so just think of IMCA as IMCA.

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Penny Croal: So, healing doesn't have to be, oh, gosh, trauma! We can have a bit of laughter as well, and laughter is great. The more that we laugh, we can actually lose a little bit of weight on that exhale as well.

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Penny Croal: every time we exhale longer and laugh longer, it's pushing us into that parasympathetic, so into that rest and digest. What's more wonderful than laughter? And having chats with Joe.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thank you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And really, thank you so much for joining me today.

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Penny Croal: Thank you, darling.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To learn more about Penny, be sure to visit Penny's website, imca.info, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: think about joining her substack at beyondsymptoms.substack.com to find the free courses she offers and to learn about… more about all of the incredible things that she's doing in the world.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we'll be sure to put those links in the show notes below. Thank you for tuning in with us today. If you have a podcast or you're interested in starting one to get your message in front of our huge and active audience, be sure to reach out to us at support at heartlifecoach.com. We love to help spiritual entrepreneurs and coaches amplify their voice and monetize their mission, and offer a variety of ways to do this on Substack.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency, and remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get visible.