[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's

[00:00:05] Eric Goranson: around, the house

[00:00:06] John Fowler: is a part of that mold, right? That's a key thing for us is the fact that we're not another one that's been rolled off a roller or a picture or a print, but it's physically molded for me. So either a piece of American Oak or in some cases, like the one you bought that's molded from a a hundred year old train car floor from France.

[00:00:23] John Fowler: Yeah. So as we talk about if it's seen the wars and you've got plenty of character in it, but. That same nail. Uh, my cousin Danny was trying to pick it out of the trade show booth, and I let him pick at it for a while, and then I said, Hey, you know what, that's actually part of the mold. And he said, why didn't you tell me earlier?

[00:00:43] John Fowler: And I said, well, is entertaining for the people walking by to see you work at it? But he estimate to how realistic that material is and, uh, how it feels. And, uh, yeah. No, you're right. I mean, it's just, it's a lot of fun when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to. [00:01:00] Well, we've got you covered.

[00:01:02] John Fowler: This is around the house. Welcome

[00:01:05] Eric Goranson: to The Round the House Show. This is where we help you get the most outta your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us today. Well, but one of my favorite out outdoor products that I've worked with in a number of years. John Fowler Outlive Mill

[00:01:20] John Fowler: Board.

[00:01:21] John Fowler: Welcome to Around the House my friend. Eric, thanks for having me on buddy. It's good to see you. Good to see

[00:01:26] Eric Goranson: you man. This is great man. I'm a fan of what you guys have going on.

[00:01:29] John Fowler: I appreciate it. No, we feel fortunate to have found it. Just a little background, my background is I spent a lot of time in Europe early in my career representing some pretty significant window and door manufacturers, and, uh, was fortunate enough to see, you know, some new and unique and different things and always had a drive to do something on my own and, uh, found this company mill board.

[00:01:51] John Fowler: Uh, they're in the uk. They're a third generation family owned company, and like you said, up front, they just make something unlike anything else on the market. [00:02:00] And yet, as you've done in your shows, I've already seen some of your videos and you've talked a little bit about it in your show. There's so many cool applications for this product and we're excited to have it and bring it to the market in the United States.

[00:02:11] John Fowler: I think it's time for people who wanna enjoy their space outdoors to have something a little bit different. You

[00:02:17] Eric Goranson: know, there's a lot of other great companies out there that have been making decking products for decades or composite, but you guys jumped ahead like 20 years in the how it looks and performs, and that is no dig on the other guys out there.

[00:02:33] Eric Goranson: It's not close of how realistic your stuff looks. Because I could have people come up to that planter box that I made and they're like, oh my gosh, how did you get this finish on it? Yep. And they have no idea. It's a composite and. There's not a lot of products

[00:02:48] John Fowler: you can do that with, right? No. And one of the things I say I agree with you is it's pretty rare to find a product that's unlike and completely different to everything else.

[00:02:56] John Fowler: You know, a lot of great brands on the market, everybody knows the [00:03:00] names, and yet it's time for kind of a new change. And the, the people that come to us say, we want something different. We like something new. And, uh, ours is just that much different in terms of how it's manufactured. Yeah. And how easy it is to work with as you've done.

[00:03:16] John Fowler: Um, that it's pretty rare you find a product that a homeowner and a contractor love, and yet, uh, we offer something that addresses both of 'em and it's been a lot of fun. It's been a really fun start. Yeah.

[00:03:28] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And you guys have a lot of growth ahead of yet because this stuff, I mean, first off, we'll get into the details here in a second, but one of the things that was really cool was.

[00:03:39] Eric Goranson: I love people coming over to my house and we just had family over for the, for the weekend, for a graduation party barbecue over this last weekend. Yep. And I catch people picking at the little nail.

[00:03:48] John Fowler: Yeah. Right. I'm like, it's not gonna come off. That's a, that's a famous story for me. The first time I showed this product in the United States was in, uh, a trade show in Madison, Wisconsin.

[00:03:59] John Fowler: In the middle [00:04:00] of February where people are dreaming about their outdoor, outdoor projects, but they're certainly not enjoying their outdoor projects in February in Wisconsin. But, uh, that, that nail is a part of that mold. Right. That's a key thing for us, is the fact that we're not another one that's been rolled off of a roller or a picture or a print.

[00:04:16] John Fowler: Mm-hmm. But it's physically molded for me. Either a piece of American Oak or in some cases like the one you bought that's molded from a a hundred year old train car floor. From France. Yeah. So as we talk about if it's seen the wars and he's got plenty of character in it, but that same nail, uh, my cousin Danny was trying to pick it out of the trade show booth and I let him pick at it for a while and then I said, Hey, you know what?

[00:04:43] John Fowler: That's actually part of the mold. And he said, why didn't you tell me earlier? And I said, well, it is entertaining for the people walking by to see you work at it. But it's estimate to how realistic that material is and uh, how it feels. And, uh, yeah. No, you're right. I mean, it's just, it's a lot of fun.

[00:04:59] Eric Goranson: It [00:05:00] is.

[00:05:00] Eric Goranson: And that stuff just is so beautiful. It's so easy to keep clean. And the thing I love about it when I was putting it together was the self-healing ability. It's like it's magic. When I put a screw in, there's no need for cortex or anything like this. You put that screw in and it disappears, and you're like, okay, if I have to go find that screw again, I'm looking for it.

[00:05:25] Eric Goranson: Right? I, I don't just go, where's the fasteners? Oh, it's right here. You can look for the round cortex hole where they put the cortex in. No, you're.

[00:05:32] John Fowler: You're looking for it. Yeah, no, it's, that's a huge thing for contractors and obviously, uh, for us to be able to show that video, we have to put the mute button on or do the beep button because you, you get some pretty colorful language when people do it for the first time, especially contractors.

[00:05:49] John Fowler: But it's a huge, it's a huge point because obviously for a homeowner, going back to when decking and people got away from wood or, uh, looking at composites, No maintenance. They want, [00:06:00] they would wanna maintain it. They wanna enjoy their time, not fix it, not spot it up, not stain it up. And yet for contractors to be able to install that and screw right into it.

[00:06:09] John Fowler: And the reason they can do that is our top coat, which is molded, is actually heavy duty rubber, almost like a tennis shoe, is what we promote. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, for your part of the world and for a lot of the people that are getting the water right now, or we get the snow, it's incredibly anti-slip, even when it's wet.

[00:06:26] John Fowler: Yep. And yet to install that, you just screw directly in and that screw self-heal, so you're not dealing with, uh, special tools or clips or, uh, caps or, you know, all, all the options that are out there. So it's fun, it's simple. Um, And it's pretty amazing, and people call it magic, but it's really pretty simple when you actually see it happen time, so, yeah.

[00:06:47] John Fowler: Yeah. And it's,

[00:06:48] Eric Goranson: and it's beautiful to work with. Uh, one thing I noticed too is that your boards seem to be a little bit thicker. They're a little meatier than what other, other brands are out there as well.

[00:06:58] John Fowler: Yep. No, our [00:07:00] product is, uh, it's an inch and a quarter thick, so there's approximately a quarter inch of this heavy duty rubber I mentioned on the top.

[00:07:07] John Fowler: Uh, and this has been proven. This is not a new product. This is product that's been around since, uh, 1976. This company, it's new to the United States, but uh, that's the fun part. That's the fortunate part for us, is showing this to people. Um, but yeah, inch and a quarter thick. It's a wider board is too Eric, as you've noticed.

[00:07:26] John Fowler: Yep. Um, we have three different models. We have one that's actually got an integrated sandpaper strip on it. It's quite interesting. That was cool. Um, yeah, called Last Grip. We got a little sample of it there. Yeah. But that's not a tape from 3m, coming from Minnesota here, but, uh, actually an integrated sandpaper strip for your commercial dock applications, that type of thing.

[00:07:46] John Fowler: We have the one that you use, which is actually molded from the hundred year old train car floor, which has, as I'm showing here. Oh yeah. Knot and the rolls. And yet, um, that's almost an eight inch wide board, inch and a quarter thick. And then our most popular [00:08:00] has been the traditional, we call it the enhanced screen.

[00:08:02] John Fowler: And interesting enough for this is, it's, uh, not to get too technical, but this is actually molded from a piece of American Oak. Yeah. More character to it than the British Oak, uh mm-hmm. And yet they change that over six boards to the mold, and they're consistently changing that. So you always get what we want, which is the character, the variation, the differentiation.

[00:08:23] John Fowler: It's not that same pattern, but it's not a wider board, a thicker board. And, um, oddly enough, and to our benefit, it's extremely lightweight. So it's, it's similar,

[00:08:34] Eric Goranson: yeah. I mean it's, it's easy to carry around and some of the other products out there are so dense, it makes it one hard to work with that's more flexible.

[00:08:45] Eric Goranson: Right? And so it's a little more jelly and heavy, which to me is harder to work with as an installer, and it's somebody trying to put something in. So yeah, I love the lightweight, but. You know, but has that mass to it. So [00:09:00] when you put it down someplace, it's, it stays there and you're not fighting

[00:09:03] John Fowler: it. Right.

[00:09:03] John Fowler: And to your point, heavier doesn't mean better. So yeah, the fact that our product is lightweight, you know, we actually infuse it with, uh, shorts of fiberglass. So yes, incredibly strong. As you experience with your stairs there, I'm sure. Um, it's got a little flex to it. That's not a defect. We want that, you know, a little easier on the knees.

[00:09:22] John Fowler: Doesn't help someone like myself getting up there that you wanna enjoy. Enjoy the softer feel on the knees. So, yeah. Wanna work with it?

[00:09:30] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it's, it's impressive. And, you know, I wanted to mix those two products together around the house. We'll be right back after these important messages. Don't change that towel.

[00:09:39] Eric Goranson: We got a lot more to go.

[00:09:54] John Fowler: What's up, stick hand Satchel from Steel Panther. And you are listening [00:10:00] too, around the house with Eric G. Yeah. We love Eric G and you should too.

[00:10:19] John Fowler: Welcome back to The

[00:10:20] Eric Goranson: Round The House Show where we help you get the most outta your home through information and education. This episode is brought to you by Route Quencher and route quencher.com. If you want more information about how to keep your trees and bushes healthier and saving water, go to route quencher.com.

[00:10:35] Eric Goranson: Now let's get back. And our discussion with John from Mill Board. Yeah, it's, it's impressive. And, you know, I wanted to mix those two products together because I wanted to have the really detailed weathered look. Of of that, you know, rail car floor for my planter, but still have a similar color on the stairs.

[00:10:55] Eric Goranson: So it all played well together and those two compliment

[00:10:58] each

[00:10:59] John Fowler: other's. Yeah, [00:11:00] no, it's uh, it's fun to have that variation. It's just every time we show it to people, cuz we do sample people for free. Uh, that's important for us cuz all the stories or all the words that we talk about are photos. You can have all the great photography in the world with the social media and all that, but when you feel this product for the first time as you did, you know it's different and you can feel it.

[00:11:21] John Fowler: So between that and all the different applications, I think that's an important thing for us. Eric, and I appreciate your helping us get the word out a little bit as well. It's just, It's not a decking product and now it's purchased for decks, but we do decks. We're doing docks around the country. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:37] John Fowler: We're doing pathways in the Everglades. We're doing outdoor classrooms. We're doing it self insulates. So you can do privacy walls. I'll show you one here in a little bit that, yep. You can integrate with real dirt and it'll self insulate and won't rot. And yet now we're doing it in siding. So, uh, performance is incredibly important.

[00:11:56] John Fowler: Everybody wants performance, funny enough, because it's a rubber top coat, [00:12:00] it's resistant to hail, so Oh.

[00:12:03] Eric Goranson: Hadn't thought about that for our hail people out there. Yeah. Cause a lot of people in the Midwest and uh, and even in the Rocky Mountain states that have been just getting halted with hail

[00:12:12] John Fowler: recently.

[00:12:13] John Fowler: Yeah. And you know, mother Nature's in charge. I say that to my group and to people. We talk with Mother Nature's in charge when it comes to the elements. Uh, but I'll put this material against anything in terms of how it performs, feels, and look. Yeah.

[00:12:25] Eric Goranson: It's solid. And that makes sense. And what I love about it too is, you know, in the, in the Pacific Northwest where I live, and, and that's only a, a small portion of our, of our viewing and listening audience, but what's cool is, is that through the wintertime here, which is our rainy season, we get this slime that covers everything.

[00:12:44] Eric Goranson: Yep. And it might as well be five degrees below zero. And I've had rain on the deck because on a normal composite deck, you get out there and you're going to eat it. Yep. You are gonna just, you're gonna be on the ground and I'm excited to [00:13:00] have this on there.

[00:13:00] John Fowler: No, that, that's big, big point for us is the anti-slip properties.

[00:13:04] John Fowler: Um, especially when it's wet. You know, this is an easy product to work with too. You can power wash it up to 2000 psi. Once it gets rained on, it becomes more anti-slip. Um, certainly for things like we're doing commercial properties, Eric, so mm-hmm. You get into a, a rooftop deck or a patio or a pathway where they want that anti-slip, maybe in a retirement community type thing.

[00:13:26] John Fowler: The anti-slip properties are huge for us. Uh, and yet as we've shared, so easy to work with aesthetically, nothing like it, no exposed screws. Um, it's, it's, it's amazing. And that's, safety is an important thing. I, I did an interview recently about safety and inspecting decks because everybody wants to spend their time outside.

[00:13:45] John Fowler: And, um, there's not a lot of options out there that when things get wet or get mold growing on them, that you're gonna have those anti-slip properties. And it's not the top pitch, but certainly an important one in, in certain applications in this market.

[00:13:58] Eric Goranson: Well, you think about it, you know, that's why we have [00:14:00] rubber on our tires, right?

[00:14:01] Eric Goranson: On our vehicles, and they've been using rubber for so long because, It's probably the most flexible anti-slip compound. Otherwise we'd have something better on our tires than our vehicles out

[00:14:10] John Fowler: there. Absolutely. We're not doing wood wheels anymore. We've, we've No thank

[00:14:14] Eric Goranson: gosh. Right.

[00:14:15] John Fowler: No Flintstones. That's right.

[00:14:16] John Fowler: That's right. That's right.

[00:14:18] Eric Goranson: And one thing that I think is cool is you guys have such an amazing color selection. And you guys have some really light colors as well as dark colors, which I think is really cool.

[00:14:29] John Fowler: Yep. And I think things are gonna evolve there too for us as we grow across, you know, they're now a global company, so having a wide range of colors, uh, the different grain patterns that we've talked about already is important.

[00:14:42] John Fowler: Um, some people love those darker charcoal, uh, the Brit cedar like you selected and did, and, uh, I think it's beautiful. It's gonna be warmer in the sun again. Mother nature's in charge, but Sure. Um, there's a range. And it's funny because all across the upper Midwest here, People like those wood colors that, you know, we're in the, we're in the world of [00:15:00] oak and maples, so they want their dark browns or medium browns.

[00:15:04] John Fowler: And yet, oh yeah, on the coast, we get into more of the, the lighter pastels and the grays. Um, to be able to address that or to look like a cedar deck that's been replaced except not have the maintenance is fun. And yet, when it, when you feel it, and back to the safety comment. Um, it just addresses, it kind of ticks all the boxes is what they say.

[00:15:23] John Fowler: In the uk I'm, I'm evolving with the British language and diff learning little fixed thing is a screw and some of these things, so, yeah. See,

[00:15:32] Eric Goranson: it's funny how, you know, you go across the pond there and the, and the terms changed so much. I went with the dark because at my house I have. 90% tree cover over the top of Yeah.

[00:15:43] Eric Goranson: Of, uh, big, you know, 300 year old fur trees. Right. And so I don't have to worry about the solar gain from it. So, you know, if I had no trees around, would I have gone with, with the dark? Probably not. I'd have gone lighter. But I have that luxury and those trees, if I wanna remove 'em, it would take me years of [00:16:00] permits to do it.

[00:16:00] Eric Goranson: They're not going

[00:16:01] John Fowler: anywhere. Yeah, no. Again, back to my comment again. I say it all the time across all these topics, mother Nature's in charge, so it's performed in 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Sure. And people call and say, cuz we do pool decks. You know what does most, most people put concrete around pool deck and they want anti-slip billboard's an option.

[00:16:17] John Fowler: Now it's an awesome option. If it's 105 degrees out though, you're gonna want flip flops. But I think Right, most materials you would. So it's concrete. You're gonna want flip flops. And yet up in, uh, beautiful Minnesota here and in January where we have ice rinks and it gets snow and cold and the whole, all the beautiful things that we get, uh, easy to shovel off, repair it.

[00:16:39] John Fowler: You can put salt on it and wash it away, power wash it off, and it still has those same properties. So aesthetics is an important thing. Performance is an important thing, but um, there's nothing more realistic.

[00:16:51] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, to me, it just makes a lot of sense for people out there. And until you see it, and I, and I, I gotta tell people to get a sample.

[00:16:59] Eric Goranson: Take a look at [00:17:00] it. The pictures on the website, you can't get a picture to do the justice, right? Because when you get it in your hand, you see it. When I first went and picked it up, up there, up at, uh, Taye Cedar up in the Seattle area up there when I popped up and saw those guys up there. Yep. Man, I tell you what

[00:17:15] John Fowler: it was, it was like,

[00:17:16] Eric Goranson: oh, you're not kidding.

[00:17:19] John Fowler: Yeah, no, it's, it's funny, we show, we've done a number of trade shows, so we've done, you know, international Builders Show and the Inter International Deck Show, we were fortunate enough to win most unique decking product, uh, most innovative decking product. Excuse me. Yeah. So it's fun to get those awards, but I really think it's a testament to what you just said.

[00:17:37] John Fowler: Is all the photos and, and conversations about benefits are great, but when you actually get this product and you feel it, I mean the material is so light, it actually floats. So it's pretty amazing, uh, to see how it performs in all the different climates, all the different applications. Uh, we're doing docks right now where people.

[00:17:58] John Fowler: That are having their docks [00:18:00] actually self level and, and drop into the water, it's no problem. Mill board can do that and come back up. Wow. One of our, one of our winds that I, I, no, it's not really necessarily a wind, but just a testament to the material is everybody remembers the hurricane that hit Southwest Florida last year.

[00:18:16] John Fowler: Hurricane Union was a category five decimated. One of my favorite places on earth was Santa Ba Island. Okay. And we had some huge projects that we had just gotten started with there. And our product sta through 12 feet of storm surge from the Gulf of Mexico.

[00:18:32] Eric Goranson: Don't go anywhere around the house. We'll be right back up to these important messages.

[00:18:35] Eric Goranson: We got a lot more

[00:18:36] John Fowler: to come.

[00:18:55] John Fowler: Hey, this is Ron Keel, the metal cowboy from Keel, the Ron [00:19:00] Keel Band and Steeler. We are rocking around the house with Eric G. Ray is

[00:19:05] Eric Goranson: your first welcome back to The Round The House Show where we help you get the most outta your home through information and education. We've been talking decking this hour.

[00:19:14] Eric Goranson: A great new, beautiful composite decking with John Fowler from Mill Board and Outlived. Now let's get back to this conversation. It's a

[00:19:22] John Fowler: good one. When you actually get this product and you feel it. I mean, the material is so light, it actually floats. So it's pretty amazing, uh, to see how it performs in all the different climates, all the different applications.

[00:19:36] John Fowler: Uh, we're doing docks right now where people. That are having their docks actually self level and, and drop into the water, it's no problem. Mill board can do that and come back up. One of our, one of our winds that I, I, no, it's not really necessarily a wind, but just a testament to the material is everybody remembers the hurricane that hit Southwest Florida last year.

[00:19:57] John Fowler: Hurricane Union was a category five [00:20:00] decimated. One of my favorite places on earth was Santa Bay Island, and we had some huge projects that we had just gotten started with there. And our products sat through 12 feet of storm surge from the Gulf of Mexico, and they just reinstalled those very same boards two weeks ago.

[00:20:17] John Fowler: Wow. So to have it sit in saltwater for three, four days and then install those same boards, not replace 'em, I think it's a testament to performance and that type of condition too. So, um,

[00:20:30] Eric Goranson: well, not only did you have the saltwater, but you had it just getting hammered. Yeah.

[00:20:36] John Fowler: I haven't seen they, they come every year.

[00:20:39] John Fowler: Right. But, uh, that was, that was an ugly one. That was, that was definitely

[00:20:44] Eric Goranson: an ugly one. Yeah. I knew people had houses down there and stuff that just got tore up. But that is a testament for the product though, that it could, that it could withstand that. And there's a lot of other deckings that you'd. It'd be the first for the warranty department going, whoa, we can't cover that.

[00:20:59] John Fowler: [00:21:00] Right, right, right. No, it's definitely a testament to performance and uh, to be able to reinstall that gives us a story and also just instills more confidence, not only on our end of it, but. The contractors that are putting this material in, that the ease of installation. But the fact that it just survived that I think proves that, um, mother Nature's in charge, but this material is, is superior in terms of performance.

[00:21:23] Eric Goranson: So when you use it like on a screen or something like that, because of that rubber, that's also gotta have some sound deadening properties as well to it because, Being that flexible surface means that sound isn't gonna bounce

[00:21:35] John Fowler: the same way. Sound is excellent. The other one to consider that you don't think about is, uh, we actually have a phenomenal project that we're gonna be, uh, promoting globally.

[00:21:44] John Fowler: Just finished it up. It's in California at a place that shall remain nameless, but you'll know when you see it. It's actually the biggest container home in the United States, so, wow. It's, uh, I wanna say it's nine or 10 containers that are all international shipping containers. [00:22:00] That have routed out with custom, uh, glass custom glazing windows, and we Cool.

[00:22:06] John Fowler: Did the entire deck area, but the interior walls, they used mill boards so they wouldn't have to use drywall. So there's some pretty interesting insulation properties, and yet you have that field look of wood on the inside because of the way the material is manufactured. So, oh,

[00:22:22] Eric Goranson: that's cool. So you could have almost that, uh, you know, that, uh, Gordon Batten look or whatever on the inside, but you're using a product that's just gonna last,

[00:22:31] John Fowler: or you don't think about it.

[00:22:32] John Fowler: And I, we don't per se interior cause we're talking about outdoor living, but I've had Sure. We use it in showers. Because they want to have that wood look and it won't rot or warp. So that's a unique application as well where you get the feel of wood, but you can screw whatever you want into it in terms of, um, what you need for the shower and, and, um, it looks amazing.

[00:22:54] John Fowler: Okay. It's unbelievable. Hadn't thought about that. So,

[00:22:57] Eric Goranson: okay. See now I now have, now I have another project coming [00:23:00] up in September. We're doing an outside dog wash area, so on that same deck you and I have been

[00:23:04] John Fowler: talking about, so it's like, just, just ping me. Yep. Yep.

[00:23:07] Eric Goranson: Exactly. I'm like, huh, okay, now we're gonna do a dog wash area with it.

[00:23:10] Eric Goranson: Right, right. See, I learn every, every time I talk to you, John, I go, huh, there's another project. That's

[00:23:15] John Fowler: cool. Nice job. Job. Hey, love to work with you, man. It's great. Oh yeah, you too.

[00:23:19] Eric Goranson: You too. Having a lot of fun with this. And then you guys, I see on your website, you guys have. Some, uh, different fastening systems as far as, you know, support for it from the, from the, the little puck things to hold the deck up to even steel that I saw.

[00:23:33] Eric Goranson: Yeah. We offer, or not steel, but it's a, a metal decking. Metal and composite, right?

[00:23:37] John Fowler: Yep. We offer a couple different really cool solutions, especially for Inground or on like an e p DM roof. Uh, one of the options we offer is a 100% recycled subframe. Uh, it's a hundred percent recycled pvc. Wow. But it's nice because if you do a rooftop deck and you got E P D M rubber, obviously it's got some bevel for drainage, but you can build a frame out of [00:24:00] our two by two, two by six, and then you have something to screw into where the screws disappear on the top, and yet you're not worried about your sub-frame rotting.

[00:24:08] John Fowler: So commercially ally, even, we've done, uh, golf courses where we do their path and, and deck outside where it's built into the ground. Yeah, you can use this material where again, you're not worried about the entire system, cuz we're not worried about the top coat with mill. But also the subframe system, uh, the metal system that you noticed is called our dual span, actually, excuse me, it's an aluminum product hasn't taken off.

[00:24:35] John Fowler: Is um, I think the evolution, I'm sure your, your customers or homeowners, certainly contractors in the country, the evolution of steel subframes is really grown around the United States. Sure. Company, companies like Fortress, these types of companies. Um, steel's really grown steel's a little more inexpensive than aluminum.

[00:24:52] John Fowler: And yet you're able to get longer spans on your decking. So, uh, we have not done much with the aluminum just [00:25:00] because it's a great solution, but in this country, the evolution of steel or the subframe I mentioned earlier, the a hundred percent composite. But it's still a great option. And then the self-leveling pucks are great, uh, especially if you have an area where it may be a little uneven and you wanna have that.

[00:25:15] John Fowler: We have pucks that actually self level and you can use timber or a hundred percent recycled sub-frame. There's num number of options you can use to keep that deck level so it can properly perform and drain. You know what I

[00:25:29] Eric Goranson: think is cool about that is that the other application for that is the people that have that concrete patio, that they step out of their house, go down two or three steps into it.

[00:25:37] Eric Goranson: They don't have to tear the patio up. They can actually do it with that and uh, still get the solution.

[00:25:43] John Fowler: Yep. It's one of the best applications for us is when they have something exactly as you just mentioned, where they wanna have a little more aesthetic, a little more maybe anti-slip, but certainly aesthetically a deck instead of that concrete paver that maybe is cracked.

[00:25:56] John Fowler: Or eroded or maybe gone a little unlevel [00:26:00] because things settle right. Um, we offer a great solution for that between that pool deck. It's a great solution and obviously the aesthetics is a big part of that.

[00:26:10] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because, uh, one it for a project, you don't have to rip all that stuff out.

[00:26:15] Eric Goranson: You can just go right over the top of it and it gives you a good sub base for that.

[00:26:19] John Fowler: Yeah. Yep. No, we, we do, you know, things people don't think about. If I can just give you a 32nd tour. I got a little showroom here that I was gonna give you a couple. Give me a tour,

[00:26:27] Eric Goranson: man, this is awesome.

[00:26:28] John Fowler: Let's take a look.

[00:26:29] John Fowler: Cool. So what you don't think about is different applications, like you're building a house and you have. Four by four treated posts, or you got a plastic wrapped post. Think about posts on the front of a house. You say, well, that's only eight, 10 posts. But you want something low maintenance, but it's, it's aesthetically pleasing.

[00:26:46] John Fowler: It's that same board that you put on your deck right here. You can see this wrapped post system. Wow. All you're doing is 45 mitering that in, and yet there's probably 60 screws in that that you can't see. All you see is the grain [00:27:00] pattern. Yep. And that's just simply wrapped around a piece of green treated four by four.

[00:27:05] John Fowler: Wow. That's cool. We do a lot of benches, so you can get into a curved bench like this where. People that are using composites are used to, when they want to do a circular bench or a circular deck, they have to Yep. Preheat it or cut it. Yep. This actually has half of that heavy duty rubber in the profile.

[00:27:24] John Fowler: Okay. So it depends on its own, up to a four foot radius, no problem. And yeah, out you think of a privacy wall. This is probably one of the coolest things, I think, application wise that, uh, we offer, if you have a privacy wall, Uh, whether it's around a hot tub area or a pool area, or just an area where you want to protect it, but you want character and maybe integrate some plants and flowers.

[00:27:46] John Fowler: Uh, we built this one out. Oh, beautiful man. Integrated. You can put real dirt in that. You could put real plants, real flowers, and yet that's a model from a 100 year old train car floor in France so that that'll [00:28:00] have your screws and your knots. I'll get a little bit closer for you just to show your. Yeah, here's your mail right there, Eric.

[00:28:05] John Fowler: Right there. Yep. There it is. Uh, just adds quite a bit of character and yet the top one is actually a reclaimed log. You can't really tell the difference. Right.

[00:28:15] Eric Goranson: We'll be right back with John Fowler from Outlive and Mill Board Decking, just as soon as around the house. Returns don't go anywhere. We're gonna wrap this one up.

[00:28:57] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to Around The House Show where you helped get the most [00:29:00] at your home through information and education. We've been talking with John Fowler from Mill Board Decking and Outlived. Now, if you wanna find the videos I made about this stuff, it's a really cool decking product and it was project I tackled at my house.

[00:29:16] Eric Goranson: Head over to around the house online.com and you can find the videos over there. Now let's get back and wrap up this conversation

[00:29:22] John Fowler: with John. Um, when we do these trade shows, we always take one of those same boards you have in our, in our vintage color. Yep. Like a three foot board, right? Yep. And then we'll put a little sample sub frame underneath it.

[00:29:32] John Fowler: And the important thing is we'll put a catalog or something to give us a little space so you can see in between. Yeah. And, uh, we'll screw a couple screws in, but we'll leave that on the counter of a, a lumber yard or at a trade show and just let people do it themselves. Yep. And it's the very same reaction cuz it's really that simple.

[00:29:48] John Fowler: It's not magic. And yet at the end of the trade show that board weighs 80 pounds because there's, you know, 150 stainless steel screws into it and you can't see one of 'em. And if you do see a [00:30:00] screw, it's because you've accidentally run into another screw. So I, I did that a couple times actually,

[00:30:05] Eric Goranson: where I was like, oh wait, I already put one in there.

[00:30:07] John Fowler: This is one of the most simple, this is one of the most simple tools we use. It's just a little three inch, four inch section. But we show people this all the time, is how many screws do you see? And then we show it from the side and you can see wow, the screws. So it's uh, yep. It's pretty simple story, but it's powerful too, especially once you get to do it yourself.

[00:30:27] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and I like that you guys have some trims available too. It's not just a a deck board. You know, you guys have trims and bull noses and things like that to, to make things work. When you get into decking situations, it just makes that project so much easier to

[00:30:40] John Fowler: work with. Yep. No, we do a bull nose. We just offered a new, uh, we offer a square edge, obviously for more your modern look.

[00:30:46] John Fowler: We just launched one of the new, it's called slim board. So our typical boards would be, uh, seven or eight inches. Now we have a five inch. So sometimes people like to alternate those different widths to have it again even further, more look like real wood. Um, yep. I don't, [00:31:00] I don't think you've seen it, but another profile of our cladding that we offer siding, which is, I'll just point it out cause I think it's interesting is, uh, this is actually a traditional true board and batten.

[00:31:10] John Fowler: Oh, that's cool. So if you notice the four surfaces, right, you got different heights. Mm-hmm. But the coolest thing about this, and this, we try to reiterate this all the time, is if you look at the four surfaces, That's four different molded grading patterns. Yeah, so it's not, they're not all the same. It's not a picture.

[00:31:28] John Fowler: That's four different,

[00:31:28] Eric Goranson: it's not that ruled out, stamped. You know, I mean, it's funny. I look at, I look at the I you have now created this. Look for me, when I look at deck boards from other manufacturers, I think of it as the particle board with the wood printed shelf that you get out with the oak printed shelf on it at the home center, right?

[00:31:49] Eric Goranson: Right. You know? Yep. Versus something that's molded and is really meant to look like what it's meant to look like,

[00:31:58] John Fowler: and that's why we promote that molded [00:32:00] comment just because. You're getting the real board except not the maintenance. Yeah. You know, and then the fact that it's consistently changing, I just found out that, um, mill board's consistently selecting from a specific board package, you can imagine the amount of boards they have, but um Right.

[00:32:16] John Fowler: They'll go through that and hand select the boards, American Oak. To show that pattern and just try and repeat that through six different boards. So, um, there's nothing more realistic to the look. More importantly, it's nothing more realistic than the feel. And there's, there's a definite wow factor with this product.

[00:32:36] John Fowler: Um, the fact that it's wider, thicker, feels different and uh, the color range is great, but I just love all the different applications we hit. Yeah.

[00:32:46] Eric Goranson: So one question, I know that, uh, my audience is gonna ask, how does this compare price point? Cuz they're like, okay, this is gorgeous. How does it compare to some of the other competitors out there?

[00:32:55] John Fowler: Yep. Great question. We're a premium product, so we consider ourselves to be in kind of that [00:33:00] top 20% of the market. Uh, we're not trying to compete down low. I mean, the material's coming a long way. We're importing it all from the United Kingdom. Um, and we have stock around the United States. So this is not something where you call and say, here's, here's what you want.

[00:33:14] John Fowler: We call to order it, we're distributing it. So we have it here now, the entire package, siding, decking, everything. Um, but we're in that top 20%. So we're there thereabouts, $18 a square foot. And we found that to be competitive. And uh, yeah. Fair. And then I think the other comment too, that I think both the homeowner and even some of the contractors, Eric, that we run out of doing projects, like even the project you did, um, you know, people discount the fact that we're only that top coat, you know, you still have labor, you still have subframe.

[00:33:45] John Fowler: And we all know no matter what industry we're in, Labor's an important thing. It's expensive and it's huge. Contractors are worth it in gold. Try to get a contractor to come out to your house in the next week. Forget the 4th of July. But yeah, it's, uh, challenging [00:34:00] and yet, uh, they're worth it. You find a good contractor, it's worth it in gold.

[00:34:04] Eric Goranson: Hundred percent. And a good decking contractor is. Is, is tough to find because there's a lot of guys out there and there's that 3% right, that are pretending to be decking contractors, right? That aren't, and there's diff, like any labor force, there are great ones, there are good ones and there's ones that are hoping to be

[00:34:22] John Fowler: good ones.

[00:34:23] John Fowler: And the ones that are using us, you know, I think any product, whether it be mill board or um, uh, a, you know, any window manufacturer, any product is only gonna be as good as the install. You know, it's not gonna matter. So, uh, we get complimented quite a bit on the fact that we do provide consistent, ongoing, everyday training, uh, for contractors.

[00:34:43] John Fowler: It doesn't take two hours on a Zoom call, but, uh, there's certainly some different things as you experienced that. We wanna walk through some of the basic install, uh, so they're comfortable and confident and it's going in right for that homeowner, for that owner, that business. Um, yep. And then more importantly to us [00:35:00] is that that project goes well, but that there's other opportunities because we've had compliments that there's actually a labor savings in using our product on installing.

[00:35:08] John Fowler: Oh, I

[00:35:08] Eric Goranson: guarantee there is. I guarantee there is because Go on in. It went in quick and easy. Yep. Yeah. And then I'm gonna go show and tell one of my favorite things you guys have. Is the touch up coating stuff? Yes. For all my cut ends and, and stuff

[00:35:24] John Fowler: that it's works well. It's fantastic. It's actually a really high end water based paint that we use and it's purely aesthetic.

[00:35:33] John Fowler: You know, there is no sealing up an end, so it doesn't absorb water. We don't do that. Absolutely. This is purely aesthetic, but, uh, that material works fantastic. And every question that comes to us, whether it be scratching or heat, or warping or el, you know, I think we've, like I said earlier, we've checked the boxes with this manufacturer's product and uh, it's easy to work with, easy to clean up.

[00:35:57] John Fowler: You and you, you know, again, back to your comment on the touch [00:36:00] up paint, you soften that edge and you put a little touch up paint on there. You can't tell that that's not a burnt scoop. No. So

[00:36:07] Eric Goranson: no, I couldn't use it in the deck segment as much cuz when I was putting the decking was, if you noticed on that, uh, when I was doing my stairs it was pouring rain and I was getting soaked out there and I'm like, yeah, it's not the day to get the waterproof stuff out and make a bigger mess.

[00:36:19] Eric Goranson: Hey, I appreciate

[00:36:20] John Fowler: it. I lived in Belgium for six years, so I can appreciate the fact that it rains up where you live just like it did where I lived. I mean,

[00:36:29] Eric Goranson: So, yeah, it's all good. But, but that's why I wanted to use a premium product at my house. Cause I knew it was gonna, it's gotta be able to stand the test of time, you know, and, and the de, even though I'm covered in trees, it also means that I get sat from time to time.

[00:36:42] Eric Goranson: So something that's gonna be easy to clean. It's a big deal for me because those little sap things on a, on a non capped deck is now a permanent fixture.

[00:36:51] John Fowler: Right, right. No, this material is, we, they've done testing on things like that. You don't think about, but you, you use all times. Anything that has acidic properties, you think of, [00:37:00] uh, wine and mustard and all the things that you spill on your deck, you know?

[00:37:04] John Fowler: Mm-hmm. Residue from flowers out of pots or out of planters. Uh, yep. You just, simple power, simply power. Wash that off and it goes away. So, um, it's good. Real easy to maintain.

[00:37:15] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So John, uh, we're ending the time of the show. How do people track you guys down? Because man, we gotta get some stuff in people's hands cuz this is

[00:37:23] John Fowler: gorgeous stuff.

[00:37:23] John Fowler: Well, like I said earlier, I appreciate you, you know, talking about Ty Cedar. We're developing our dealer network. Um, but probably the most immediate way is to contact us at Outlive. Um, outlive.info, we are a info. Uh, or you can go to mill board M i L L B O A r d.com and that'll drive you to us at Outlive.

[00:37:43] John Fowler: But we got a full group of inside sales team that's handling inquiries. And whether it be samples, we'd like to learn a little bit about you and your project or your business if you're a contractor. And, uh, I'm telling you that as you say, we want to get it out there into people's hands. Once people start to work with this, be it a [00:38:00] contractor or a homeowner, the referrals kind of flow through.

[00:38:03] John Fowler: Yeah. So contact us. We'd love to take care of you, and, uh, we treat every inquiry the same. I mean, it's important for us to grow this as we're a newer business in the country. But the product's been around. Yeah. And uh, when people experience it, they absolutely love it.

[00:38:17] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You guys were great when I first reached out to you and went, Hey, what is this stuff?

[00:38:20] Eric Goranson: This is cool. I saw it, I think on social media and, uh, man, you guys were right on it. Really cool to work with, uh, before I got to you. Uh, definitely a pro staff over there. So it was very, very fun

[00:38:32] John Fowler: to work with you guys on that. Thanks man. And that, that, you know, social media is big too. We have a Facebook site, we have uh, Instagram site, outlive underscore usa.

[00:38:41] John Fowler: Just check it out. There's a lot of great photography on there. If nothing else can inspire you as an architect to build or a homeowner. Um, but we're trying to show all the different applications and, um, there's some pretty cool things out there you can get idea wise, just as you do with yourself. Yeah.

[00:38:54] John Fowler: Okay. Get people to know that there's other options out there. So you got it. Appreciate you, uh, getting [00:39:00] me on here. This

[00:39:00] Eric Goranson: is great. No problem, John. Thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate working with you. This has been so much fun. And, uh, you guys out there, just wait till the next project

[00:39:08] John Fowler: I talk. All right, we'll be in touch Eric.

[00:39:09] John Fowler: Thank you and have a good rest of your week. Have a good holiday. Uh, you too brother.

[00:39:12] Eric Goranson: Thank you, John. We'll talk soon. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to Around the House.