Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Worship Leader Pod.

I'm your host, Amber Fugate.

And on today's episode, I get to sit down with a really great friend of mine, Keith Cashmes, and we talk about the vast difference between church and America and church and South Africa.

It's a good one.

You're going to want to hear this one.

We also talk about community, the power of community, and we also talk about not putting God in a box in our churches.

So.

So open up your heart and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you as you listen.

Come on, let's get into it.

Hello and welcome back to Worship Leader Pod.

This podcast is here to draw you closer to Jesus.

It's not just for worship leaders or musicians.

It really is to stir your heart and your passion to love Jesus with everything that you have.

And so today I want you just to tune in, I want you to ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you because I believe this conversation is just going to do just that and it's going to stir passion and devotion to the Lord.

So I am super excited because I haven't had it in studio podcast recording in a hot minute, so it feels almost like I don't know what to do with my hands or to do.

I'm usually like on a, you know, I do some virtual podcast episodes.

But today in the studio, I have a really good friend of mine, Keith Kashmir, from, well, he's not really from gr.

I'll let him tell you where he's from and all the things we're going to get into that.

But Keith is a really good friend of mine.

Him and his family have just been such a blessing to me and my family and in our community.

And man, I am just super, super pumped to have him here in the studio.

So welcome Keith.

Thank you for being here.

Come on, you've been so generous, man.

If you can give that introduction to.

Every time, every time.

Oh my God, this is great.

But I'm really glad to be here just to see what God is doing, this ministry.

Yeah, I remember when you talked about Worship Leader Pot.

Yeah.

And just to see the fruition of it.

Yeah.

And to see you walk in obedience, man, this, this thing is a life changing ministry.

I've watched the videos and it's an honor to be part of what God is doing here today.

I can't wait to have some fun, have some conversation.

Come on, let's go.

Yes, yes.

So, so excited.

And I knew, I was like, well, I gotta have Keith on the podcast because if, because you know, like, my heart even starting this podcast was, okay, I love Jesus.

I love worshiping God.

Reckless abandon, like, don't care.

And I want to have conversations with people who are just like that as well, or that I can lean from and grow from.

And it really is like a table to, like, sit and like, have our hearts burning with passion for the Lord.

Like, that's the whole point.

And so I know I was like, I need people that I know that I can draw from that.

And really, it's like, I feel like I give you the offering because it's like me sitting here like, okay, Lord, I'm ready to receive whatever you want out of Keith's mouth.

So it's really is like a.

It's a two way street.

Like, I feel like God's going to do something in your life and in mine as we conversate here.

But.

But let's chat about.

Okay, so we met.

This is funny, actually, how we met.

Well, not funny, but it's like, I was asked worship at a young adult event.

Have never heard of it before.

Someone I don't even know who connected me.

They're like, hey, I know a friend that knows a friend, and they're looking for a worship leader.

I'm like, cool.

Like, it's with a bunch of other different churches in the area.

And I was like, that sounds like a lot of fun.

Yeah.

And then they're like, okay, we're gonna do rehearsal.

You know how it goes.

It's like, we're gonna do rehearsal tomorrow.

I'm like, tomorrow, sure, let me just cancel my schedule.

No.

And I was like, I mean, I'm in.

So that sounds fun.

So I'm, you know, prepping for this, and I.

And I meet half of the team and not everyone's there.

And then I just show up on the worship night and it's like, for the first time, and I meet you and I'm like, oh, okay.

Like, this is cool.

He's like, hey, we're just so excited to meet.

We just want Jesus here tonight.

And I was like, sweet.

I must be in the right place.

Yep.

And so I think the first time I led such a powerful night, I mean, I was like, wow, this is better than what I could have imagined.

Because it was kind of like a.

I said, yes.

I did a quick rehearsal and then I showed up and I said, I didn't know what to expect, but my heart is.

I just love Jesus.

So I'm like, there for the presence.

And then.

Yeah.

And then they're like, hey, let's do that again.

So we did one.

The last one that we did, it was actually.

I think it was during COVID Oh, really?

Maybe not during, but it was like, after.

It was after Covid.

It was after Covid.

Because I remember we were like, the whole mass thing was still going on, and I was like, do I have to wear masks?

Worship?

And they're like, yeah.

And I was like, what?

And I was like, oh.

So all the things.

And I remember that night so vividly.

It was probably the most profound worship night.

I mean, we worshiped for so long.

Yeah.

I mean, I was like, surely people are tired and want to go home.

And they did not.

And I just felt such a hunger for the Lord.

But really, the whole night again, like, what Your plan and your vision.

I want to hear more about that was just to worship Jesus, just to lift him up.

Like, it was just that.

And hundreds of young adults from all over the area, from different denominations and different churches and different backgrounds, worship leader, non worship leader, came and filled that room.

And I'm like, it was packed.

It was crazy.

It was packed.

I brought my tambourine out and everything.

I was like, whoa, wait a minute.

We're back to the.

Yeah, let's go.

Oh, man, this is all days.

Ah.

I really.

I really miss it.

But, yeah, Seriously, though, I think about it, those moments when we were walking in it, we were seeing how God was moving.

Yeah.

You know, it's easy sometimes to be in the presence of God and lose track of what God is doing.

And I look back and I just see the life that we touch.

The amount of times we saw God move.

In my own personal life, and I'm just thankful that we were just an instrument that God kind of, like, said, hey, you know what?

I'm going to speak.

I'm going to move.

Will you obey?

Will you walk?

That's all we did.

We cultivated a space for people to come to the place where all they want to encounter is Jesus.

Not a game, not a program, not a hype, not entertainment, just Jesus.

And I thought we did a really awesome job.

Yeah, you guys really did.

I feel like you stewarded that really well.

Like, if you had never heard of Awakened Generation, and you walked in, you knew exactly what they were about.

You know what I mean?

Like, you walked in and said, oh, y'all are just here just for Jesus.

That's.

That's where I'd be.

And I think that's why it grew.

Yeah, I mean.

I mean, that makes sense, right?

Again, there's no programs, there's no things.

Obviously you guys did things as a community, but it was really like the heart of that.

So, okay, I want to hear about the heart, about awakened generation.

Like, how did that come about?

How did you start it?

And you didn't, like, start it on top of like, another ministry with a church.

It was just like you, which is amazing.

So talk about that.

I want to hear about that.

So to make it really short.

So actually the story behind is like, I'm from Ghana, West Africa, 2009.

You know, proud to that I was living a crazy life.

I was going to church, but my life was not, you know, representing what a gospel is supposed to be.

So I wanted to, you know, change of chapter.

So I went to YWAM 2009, and that's where I met my beautiful wife.

Come on, shout out, Liz.

Woo woo.

Liz.

Love you.

She's awesome.

Come on.

And so we met 2009.

We were young.

We just, you know, we love Jesus.

That's all we did, Right?

And our hearts were so.

We're so passionate about who God is and who he was.

And, you know, we were praying about what God wanted to do in our life when we moved back to the state.

Yeah.

And we had this vision where God was saying, hey, I want you to create a space where it's all about me, where it's centered around me.

It's not about a program.

It's not about coming to a place and feeling cool.

It just has to be me.

Right?

And we had that vision in South Africa, and we're missionaries, and we stayed there for two years, and then we moved to the state.

And then when we came to the state, I thought like, hey, we're going to start this ministry.

It's going to be great.

I'm going to be like, you know, whatever.

But God said, no, no, no, that's not the time.

Because working in my life, he was working in Liz's life.

So fast forward 10 years down the lane, nothing was happening.

I was involved in young adult ministries, and I was getting frustrated because I was looking at the church, the big church, and I was seeing there was a lot of lack in terms of we have so many flops, so many programs, so many extra curriculum, and we put God in the box.

And I'm like, God, we want to start a move.

We want to see God move in our culture.

Right?

And we gave up.

Listen, I was like, okay, it's not gonna happen.

And then literally.

Which year was that?

I think 2020.

Okay.

We felt like you know, it was a crazy season.

My wife was pregnant with our third baby.

I was busy with work, and in the midst of it, God said, I want you to start awakening.

Wow.

And we're like, God, we are so.

Our life is so crazy.

We can't do that.

But it's crazy.

When we stepped into that obedience, we saw God move in a way where we started.

Like, our first event was, like, about 20 people.

Next event, 50 people.

All of a sudden, 100 people.

150.

It was like it was growing, you know, And I thought just the passion that we had for God, and we set aside our agendas, and we wanted to see God move in the way that he wanted to do, and we were just obeying, and that's how awakened came about.

Yeah.

That's super cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you guys are pretty.

I feel like you stayed pretty true to that statement the whole time.

Like, it didn't, you know, Covid happened, and then other things happen, and then you're, you know, obviously, like, things stopped for a season.

But it's crazy, like, what you're saying.

Like, God's like, I want you to do this right now.

And this most crazy.

And 20.

Now you're saying, 2020.

We're all like, 2020.

Why would you start something in 2020?

But it's amazing what God will have you start.

And something that seems absolutely crazy.

But the seed that I know that you guys have sown into many, many people's lives, and you weren't just doing stuff just in young adults.

Like, and you guys.

You and Liz and your family.

So are really involved in, like, just, like, you have a tutoring program, and you help kids after school.

Like, you are actually involved.

And, like, not just.

Again, not a program, but really just showing people the love of Christ.

Come on.

Yep.

Which is.

Which is super awesome.

And I love, like, hearing that.

Okay, so tell me a little bit.

So I know this, and you told everyone this, but you're from Ghana.

Yeah.

What's the difference?

What's the church difference?

What makes.

Yeah, I want you to go down that lane of like, how worship.

Not maybe just worship, but church.

And maybe life is different than America.

Okay.

And the second question off of that was.

Or is, did you struggle with that transition?

And, like, how did you navigate?

I struggled.

Sheesh.

America's different beast.

I'm just telling you straight up, so, you know, before I can talk about how church was back home, you need to understand the culture that I'm coming from.

Right.

So in Ghana.

In Ghana, the Culture is based upon family oriented, it takes a community to build thing.

Right.

So church wasn't just church.

It was a lifestyle.

It was part of what we did.

You know, when you come from a place where there's a lot of hardship and there's lack.

Right.

People try to integrate into people's life and that's where you find joy, peace, you find community.

Right.

And so church back home wasn't just a building that we went to.

It was a place that we, we got it together because we believe that it's a God that we love.

It's been a crazy week.

We have all the struggles going on, but when we go to church, it is a place that we can release our stress and say, God, we are thankful that we survived a whole crazy week.

Yeah, yeah.

And church wasn't just, sorry, one hour, it was five hours.

Oh, I bet.

Okay.

And when I talk about church, we talking about, we have like the whole dance party.

It is a place where we celebrate because so when I look back, we believe, you know, in our culture, we have a monarchy, kin system.

Right.

And so the king, whenever a king walked into a place, there's a lot of reverence.

Yeah.

Okay.

There's a lot of like gratitude.

There's a posture that shows that this is the king.

And so when we go to church, that is the posture that we bring to church.

There's a reverence because we, we know we don't deserve to be on that place that we are.

But then the kind of church I was used to back and when I came to America, I realized it is a different game because we have, we have everything segmented.

Right.

So church is supposed to be one or two hours.

Worship supposed to be maybe what, 30, 15 minutes.

Right.

And then we need to move to the next thing, which is good.

But sometimes I feel like it makes us put God in the box.

And I saw God move a lot back home.

Then I'm seeing God move here.

And he's the same God that we serve.

He's not a different God.

He's a God in Africa.

He's the same God in America.

Right.

And I just saw that we were so caught up with, I don't know.

And I'm not saying in a bad way.

I'm just saying it's a difference because there's so much stuff here, we feel like we don't need God in our churches.

Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, I can relate to that.

I think right now, in 2024, almost 2025, there's a lot of Christians that are kind of fed up with the American church.

I agree.

We're kind of fed up with the programs, the things that do.

And yes, they serve a purpose.

But it almost feels like, is this the church of Acts, or is this the church of America?

That's right.

You know what I mean?

And it's easy to, like, glaze over that, like, yeah, well, culture is different and this.

And now we got to be up with the times and et cetera, et cetera.

I get that.

But it's like we've almost, again, we do have put God into a box.

And that causes people to stunt their growth and walk like.

I feel like I can testify to that.

I think there's even, like, after Covid and everything happened, it was like, you know, now we got to be careful about germs and things like that and distance and how we do things.

And, you know, it was like, things in church that were normal for when I grew up, because same.

I went to church, it was like five hours.

We, you know, we, we, we.

Great time.

Church, it was great, you know, so for us to, like, slim it down, like, worry about, well, we want to make sure people want to bless, honor people's time and things like that.

I'm like, I get it.

Yeah.

But then, like, you, like, you get stuck and think, like, this is what God must want.

Yeah.

And then we forget that.

But we want to open up our ears to hear what God actually wants us to do.

That's when we just get stuck in that.

In that.

Yeah.

Just like very consumerist, kind of Christianity, or kind of like whatever we need.

Whatever is good for the kids.

Whatever is good for me is the worship songs the greatest.

Can I listen to the sermon?

Is the sermon too short, too long?

Like, all the things.

But I think currently now, and I've talked to a lot of different people, it's like we just want Jesus.

That's right.

And we don't care how long it takes, girl.

So think about this.

I always think about it.

So we.

I realized so back home in the church that I grew up with, we didn't have the money to spend on all the promotion stuff.

Yeah.

It was just legitly, people coming, having a moment with God, and out of that place, there's an overflow.

People are drawn to that connection.

And I think when we put God in the box, first of all, we limit in God's power.

We're saying that he can only work in a confined time.

Now.

I don't have a thing against structure.

I think structure is a great thing.

But when structure begins to supersede the Holy Spirit moving and God moving, then we're saying, this is how we want God to move.

And when we do that, the passion, the moment that people are supposed to walk to a church and see the fullness of God, they only see part of God.

And so when that expectation doesn't meet with their relationship with God, then it begins to bounce away.

And I think that's what, you know, we need to get back to a place where, like, structure is great.

I think we need that.

But we can't always confine God in the box.

It doesn't work.

People have tried so many years and still doesn't work.

You know what I'm saying?

And I think getting to a place where we show that we are available because at the end of the day, we are just vessels that God is using.

And if we are vessels.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, absolutely.

We just have to let the person that fills us up fill us up.

And then we just walk and see him move.

And from that place, we will see the things that we want to see God move happen.

And I'm thankful that I grew up in Ghana, where church wasn't just a to do list.

It was, you go to church because you're desperately longing for a savior to move in your life because there's so much stuff happening in your life that you need something bigger.

Yeah.

And that's what we found in the place at church.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

And I wonder, like, is that.

Is that the missing piece?

Is the hunger piece?

The missing piece in our churches today where it's like, there's a lot that happens in church.

And I'm right with it with you.

Like, I love the programs.

I love the things.

I love structure, love to have some things.

But it's like, does it kind of like, diminish that hunger?

Because then it's like, it's like you go to a buffet and you know you're going to eat.

Right.

You're like, right, I got my eye on all these things.

But then they say, well, you can only have this much.

What happens when you are done eating?

You're still hungry.

You're still hungry.

Yeah.

Now, Yes.

I think you can get filled with God on your own time.

It's not the church's 100% job to make sure you're filled to the brim and every moment of your day.

Yeah.

But it is a big part.

It is a huge part.

It's a big part.

The church is there to equip and to edify the body and to make that space basically for the Lord to move in their lives and for allow it to overflow.

But I love what you said about just culturally, church wasn't just a separate thing.

It was integrated in our lives.

Everything we did.

Yeah.

And I wonder, have we maybe we've got away from that a little bit.

What do you think?

I think we've moved away because we don't have an appetite for God.

So let's put it in this scenario.

If you're going a day or two, you don't have food and you're hungry.

There's a desperation for food.

I think what we're doing in our culture in our senate is that we're not cultivating a space for people to be hungry for more of God.

Wow.

So we get to a place and we just do our routine and we.

Our structure.

Yeah.

And that's it.

Deeper connection comes from what?

Discipleship.

Right.

Come from intentionality of community based.

Right.

Deeper, deeper relationship comes from people just doing life.

Yeah.

Reading the Bible, praying together, Worshiping.

Right, Worshiping.

It's not like few worship.

It's just talking about the things about worship.

Right.

And I think like I said, programs are great, but we are doing a horrible job in the sense that we're not creating a space where we would be hungry for God.

Because when you create a space, I look at awakening.

We all we did is it's all about Jesus, nothing else.

We created a space where people were desperately hungry for God.

And when they came, they didn't come to encounter a ministry, didn't come to encounter Keith.

They didn't come to encounter an amazing worship team.

They came to encounter the God who we are desperately longing for.

And when you have that hunger and desire in your heart.

Come on.

It changes.

Because he will fill.

He will draw you in and he will fill you up.

And I think that's where it's missing.

We're not creating a space where we are centered on God to fill and move in our lives.

Yeah.

How do we do that?

Like, what does that even look like?

Oh, man.

I know.

There's so many different.

Because it's like, well, you can't like throw the whole baby out, you know, it's like, what can we do to create hunger?

Because then in my American church mind, it's like, well, we need more programs then.

Yeah.

We need more Bible studies.

We need more things to cultivate this hunger.

But I know this is me Like, I'm unraveling and.

And kind of like unwinding all the things I've learned throughout my whole Christian life.

It's like.

But that's not it.

Yeah.

It's not another program or something else.

What creates hunger in places, I guess.

You know, I think the first thing we need to get to is getting back to the core principle, the word of God.

Let's go.

I think we need to stop taking a little bit of the gospel.

But.

And present the gospel in its fullest form.

Good.

I think we talent our own interpretation and our own programming.

But I think when we begin to present the gospel, you know, over 2,000 years ago, the word of God hasn't changed.

It is still changing life.

It is still impacting life.

Amazing.

And I think if we want to get hungry, like, I love.

There's something that I love that my wife does.

Okay.

I gotta brag about her a little bit.

Here's a pin.

So my wife, like, every Saturday, she has a Sabbath.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't really agree a lot of time with her because I don't want to do it because, you know, in my flesh.

But to be real, to be honest with you, she cultivates the biblical principle in her life.

Yeah.

She's creating space.

She's crazy.

Making time for God to meet her wherever she is.

And I think if we want to grow in God, we need to create a space, allowing God to fill us out.

Now we coming in with a bucket full and say, God, move, because the bucket's already full.

Sure.

Right.

Yeah.

So we need to get to a place where we are just bringing an empty bucket and saying, God, this is your word.

Wow.

Speak to me.

Yes.

Teach me.

Walk me.

Walk with.

Walk me through it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And when we get to that place, I mean, come on.

God will do the thing that we can't do.

That's so true.

Nothing that's.

The American gospel has gotten to a place where we just take a little bit of the gospel.

Yeah.

And then we'll add our own fluff to it.

Yeah.

To tickle the ears of people.

Right.

And that's not what God wants to do.

God wants the simple word of his word.

Yeah.

Transform people.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah.

I think that's where you need to start.

Absolutely.

And then let.

Simplify programs, man.

I think too many programs.

We need to strip it down.

Yeah.

Strip it down to a place where it is just.

Yeah.

God moving.

Yeah.

And let God be God and we be human beings.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

Which is why, like, Gen Z.

Right now, a lot of the revivals that happen, Asbury and all these different things were all based on simple.

Yeah, it was nothing.

Just him.

Not.

Not.

Not a backing track.

Come on.

Track.

Not a loop track.

Not.

And not even a full band.

No.

Not even great singers, to be honest.

Had nothing else to do with just like a guitar.

Come on.

And every time I see those videos, I keep thinking, like, is this what King David did?

He just, like, played.

Just played, didn't.

Wasn't worried about anything else.

And he just wanted to please the Lord with anything that was in front of him.

And I think, like, you know, we see, you know, now.

And even after Covet, it was like, people are really just hungry for him.

And when you make the space, like what you're saying, to just go after the Lord and read His Word and just very simple, you know, that's why, again, that's why I feel like Gen Z and Gen Z is super passionate and they are on fire, and I feel like I can't even keep up.

I'm like, I need to get on their level.

I need to get what they got.

And there's no formula because it's just.

They're just hungry.

They see it.

They go after it.

And it's like, for us, it's like, we see it.

We got to think about it.

Does it fit our plan?

Does it.

Does it.

Does it fit our agenda?

Our style?

Like, it doesn't.

None of that matters.

But Gen Z, they're like, this is it.

Then we're in.

Come on.

And I feel like, yeah, I want that.

Like, that's all I want.

I recently sat into a church service where they read 10 or 15 passages of scripture without putting any experts, no commentary, nothing, just all of that.

And I felt the presence of God so heavy because it was like, what you're saying, the Word of God is alive, and it has been alive for over 2000 years.

And so when you can get into a place in community, and we'll talk about this too, because you and Liz do an amazing job cultivating community as well.

Where.

When we can get.

When the Word is present and we just made the space for him to move, like, for me, that's what stirs my hunger.

Like, I'm like, I'm going home.

And I'm like, I'm gonna get more into the Word.

I'm gonna get more into.

I'm gonna go seek his face more.

Because that sets my appetite for sure, you know?

And so I agree with you.

I think we simplifying things.

And we're seeing, I believe, a lot of churches simplifying a lot of things and getting rid of some things and kind of just, yeah, simplifying, because really, really is all about Jesus.

And like this whole podcast, like, the whole point of this podcast is to draw people to the heart of worship over and over again.

Because just because you've just.

Cause you had an encounter with the Lord once doesn't mean that's enough.

And you can't be satisfied with just that one encounter because the Lord calls us to deep.

He calls us to more, because he is more.

He is eternal, and he has so much more to show us.

And so even just like, talking about that, I'm, like, I'm.

I'm hungry for the more of the Lord because he has more for us.

And so I know one thing that you and Liz do really well is cultivating community.

Like, that's a big, big thing.

And now, like, hearing a little bit more about, like, well, that's kind of how you grew up.

That's actually what life was, was community church.

It wasn't separated.

It was literally integrated with each other.

And it didn't matter what denomination they're in or where they're at or even if they're saved.

It's like, this is a place, you know, this is how we share the gospel.

This is how we activate the gospel by creating community.

And so I love that you and Liz have these things.

You have these things called community dinners.

And talk about that a little bit and like, what stirred that?

I mean, maybe I know some of that because it's kind of like how you grew up, but what really, like, sparked or what did God do to say, okay, I want you to do that and tell a little bit more about that vision.

So, I mean, even if you look in your personal life, right, Some of the most memorable times or best moments where you've created friendship is around a meal, right?

Yeah.

Meals has always been.

That's why in America we put a lot of money at Thanksgiving, because that's where people do lives.

Right.

And you know, Liz and I, we've always wanted to, you know, before we even got married, we always have this conversation about someday if we had a space.

You know, we want to create a space that's open to everybody, to come to our house where we can break a mill, talk about life, laugh together, play games together, be goofy.

I mean, it doesn't have to always be holy.

I mean, I'm talking about.

We wanted a space where people can come and just be themselves.

Right.

And out of that place, when you can meet people where they're at, over a meal or a conversation, over a game, Right.

It creates a place for trust.

It creates a place for accountability.

You know, like.

And I think if you don't learn how to create a space where you can meet people and have conversation, then you can't share the gospel.

Because now that might sound like, oh, well, what do you mean?

Well, if you look at Matthew 22, you know, when the Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus in the Acts, what is the greatest commandment?

He says, love God with all your heart.

And the second one is to love neighbor as yourself.

Christ demonstrated like loving him is not going to be enough.

You need to love people.

Yeah.

And that's what, when he sent us to the world, he want us to love on people.

But you can't love on people without having a close proximity.

That's good.

Christ demonstrated his love by having close proximity with us.

He came in the form of man.

He died, endured our pain, our suffering, crucified, resurrected.

He paved the way for you and me.

And so community is an essential part of being a Christian.

Right?

We can't be a Christian without being a community.

And what does community produces?

Community produce?

Accountability, Love, support, care, empathy.

Yeah.

And so when we do that, we do that because it helps us, because we need that in our life.

We are broken people and we just want to be like Christ.

And when we create our home, when we create our space, we just want people to come in so that we can learn from them.

We can sharpen each other and build relationship.

At the end of the day, we can have Christ likeness in our life.

Right.

And part of that also is in our culture.

Like, I mean, like I said, community is a huge thing.

We are always, we always say this.

It takes a village to take care of a family.

Right?

Which is true.

Like my kids, I always tell them, hey, if you're naughty and you get spanked outside, and I hear that you're going to get spanked from.

It takes a whole community.

The message is not just one person.

Right.

And I don't.

Here is.

America is all about isolation.

I have my island, and if I want.

If you want to get to my island, you have to call me.

I need to schedule and make sure it works my time.

And that has been brought into the church.

Yes, it has.

Instead of a church influencing the world, the world is influencing the church.

And I think we need to get back to a place where we're just Creating tables, small tables.

That's so good to have meals and laugh and grow and do life.

Because that's what Christ did, right?

You know?

Yeah, yeah.

He.

Absolutely.

I mean, I'm just thinking of all the stories where Jesus is.

I'm going to this person's house to have dinner.

I mean, I'm just going.

And one of the greatest stories of all is the story where Jesus does his first miracle and he turns water into wine.

That's right.

It was a festival, actually.

Jewish, you know, weddings that they go for a long time, days and days, and it was a big, big celebration.

And when the wine ran out, he's like, whoa, whoa.

Ok.

Can be having that.

Yeah, we're about.

Can we want to.

I mean, there's a lot of different symbolics that happen.

That's why he did the miracle.

But even that is powerful that, like, he wasn't ready to reveal who he was or he wanted to just be with his people and he wanted to bring people in and he wanted to laugh with them.

He said, mom, not yet.

It's not my time yet.

I know that.

You know, but now is the time and I want the celebration to continue.

And I love that the first miracle of Jesus was at a wedding because it's just.

It's just symbolic of the church, of how God just loves us and he's coming for a pure bride, not to be in isolation, but to be in it together.

And so I agree.

I think I find myself very much in this too, where I'm like, I can't wait to cancel something because it's like, I get my night free and I could just be.

And God's like, then what?

Yeah, what are you gonna do?

You're gonna rest and then what?

What's the point of that?

And we've gotten so comfortable.

I've gotten comfortable with like, let's just make less plans with people.

But it's like, no, I think it's more about intentionality.

Oh.

I think it's about being intentional.

That's the word.

Like, I make space.

When Liz says, hey, we're doing dinner on Friday.

I'm intentionally putting this on my calendar because I'm intentional about.

I'm intentional about these relationships.

And so I think we've left lost that, unfortunately, that intentionality of relationships where now it's like months and months and months before we can hang out with each other.

But God has called us, like you said, to be in proximity to create tables.

And so I just love that you just said that.

So how the Enemy works is that if he can get you to be isolated, then he can prowl on you.

Right?

Yeah.

But when you have community, you have people that you can call on in moments.

Because, I mean, hey, we all have our ups and downs.

Right.

There are going to be days where I don't feel like things are going the way I want.

And I need somebody, hopefully a Christian person, a brother in Christ who can speak life into me.

Right.

And I think we, as Christians, if we're going to follow God, if we're going to follow what we're called to be, we have to be plugged into community.

Yeah.

That's so true.

And so I look at it this way.

So America, right?

There's so much stuff here.

I mean, prosperity, you have big houses, you have big cars, but people are.

Still depressed and lonely.

So lonely.

I mean, like, seriously.

Yeah.

In America, like, you have everything at the top of your finger, yet people are so sad.

So true.

And I grew up in Africa where people didn't have food to eat.

They have clothes.

Yeah.

But man, doing some of the most joyous people ever.

The reason being is because they have community of people that they get to do life with.

So constantly, they're not just remind of how much they don't have.

Yeah.

They remind of what they have.

And I think Christians, like, sometimes, you know, if we get outside this bubble and we just fixated on just the little things, we lose track.

That God has plugged us into a place that we can constantly be reminded that, like, look, no matter how hard things may be, we have a God and we have people.

Right.

You know?

Right.

And I don't know, I feel like it's just a simple.

But sometimes, you know, sometimes simple is not as simple as you might think it should be.

I don't know.

That is true.

That is true.

Yeah.

I was just thinking, because I was at a woman's conference and one of the the breakouts was simple.

Simple, not easy.

Yeah.

It's like, it's simple.

Yeah.

But it's not easy.

That's true.

Yeah.

There's a lot of things that I'm like, yep, doing that sound is simple, but actually doing it is not easy.

And intentionality.

Intentionality.

Come on.

It's intentional.

That's right.

Come back to it.

Simple.

Yeah.

Intentionality.

Yeah.

Oh, that would preach.

That will preach.

Come on.

Hey, put that on a sweatshirt.

Simple.

Let's go.

Let's go.

I love it.

You do?

I'll take it.

I can't wait to take a lot of merch.

I know Keith is always super stylish.

Can I just say?

I'm like, well, when you and Liz went to Europe, you're like, you ever going to Europe or like a wedding?

And I was like, yeah, but then you guys did like a model shoot.

I'm like, keith is on the beach with like a suit on, Like a whole like business suit on, like modeling for a company.

I'm like, what is this?

Look, look, if you get to a place where you are the only black person in one place, you can model for anybody.

I'm just saying.

So it wasn't because, you know, hey, I came in like, hey, guanado.

And I went for it.

So you're like, hey, I look nice.

I like to look good.

I came, hey, I appreciate that.

I feel like all my friends are all really good looking, which is great.

That's right.

So I mean, we like to bring it in.

Let's go, let's go.

I was thinking of like when you were talking about community and like bringing people in on that.

And I like a testimony of that, I guess with like you and Liz too is like, you know, me and my family were in transition of churches.

We didn't know like, we.

Where we were going to land or anything.

We were just kind of floating around.

And I remember, like, I don't know if it was Liz or you.

And you're like, you guys got to come over sometime.

And I think, like, with the enemy, like what you're saying, how the enemy likes to crawl on you when you get like separated or you feel like you're alone is, you know, being bogged down, feeling like, you know, no one.

You belong nowhere.

You have no community.

You have not a place.

You can only find a community in a building out of church on a Sunday.

And I felt the warmth of the Holy Spirit when you guys were like, hey, like, come hang out with us.

Be a part of our dinner.

Like, I was like, well, you know, we may or may not go to Grand Rapids first or go here or go there.

And he's like, you're like, I don't care.

Yeah, we just.

That's not the point.

This is the point.

And so that's why I, and that's why I say I'm intentional about like putting that in the calendar.

Because I know that these people are for me.

And I think it's important and even for myself to remember, like as believers, to extend a hand to people regardless if they're in your circle or church or community or, hey, let me just go Here, even if you don't share the same political views, can I just love on the people, extend a hand and bring them in in your life.

And that really is how, like, community and fellowship, really.

Because you're right.

People are lonely.

Yeah, people are.

And can I say that most people that are lonely, unfortunately, are in the church.

Yeah, that's true.

They're the most depressed and they're the most sad.

I'm not saying that's everybody.

I'm not trying to put shade on the church.

I love getting.

Girl, you just said it, what it is.

But we are most lonely.

We are.

I mean, I left, you know, a church on transition, loved the, you know, loved the people, loved the church, loved where I was at and transition out of that.

And my whole identity was caught up in a church.

And I realized, like, I felt so lonely not just leaving, but it was like I felt the weight of feeling really lonely.

And the Lord had reminded me of, like, well, a who I put my whole source and my heart into.

And also, like, being intentional with the people that I connected with.

That means, like, still reaching out to people who impact my life.

And so anyways, I just, like, I really appreciated just, like, how you and Liz just really steward that.

And you can see it in your kids, too, which is super cool.

Like, our kids go to the same homeschool co op.

And I love when it's most like, like, Ella, dude, hi.

Are you coming over?

Like, I love that, like, I'm like, weeping.

I'm like, yes, we're coming.

Yeah.

I'm so thankful for you guys.

I just love it, like, we're gonna do this and you can sit by me.

And I just love that you guys do.

Anyway, so you guys do a really good job with.

You know, it's funny though, like, I like what you just said, and I want to take this to the next level.

Some of us.

You're married, right?

Yeah.

Like, so, like, I remember, like, two years ago, Liz and I were going to a rough moment in our relationship, you know, just because you've been transparent.

And, like, I want to be transparent.

And we're going through the hardest moment in our relationship, and I kid you not, God, because we had an amazing community of friends that love Jesus, that loves us, that could see what we couldn't see.

They could speak life and they can keep us accountable.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

And so, yeah, I look at it like, if I didn't have that in my life, imagine not having that community in my life.

Right, Right.

Right.

And there are people that are walking every day, making decisions, doing life, and they're not privileged to have what we have.

And like I said, like you said, though, it lies on every Christian, all of us, that we always have to extend a hand to people who doesn't go to the same church like us, who doesn't look like us, who doesn't dress like us, who doesn't talk the language, because at the end of the day, our job is to be a light wherever God takes us.

And how do we do that?

It's creating space where we say, God, we're going to create a buffet.

You got to feed the people.

Just like the parable where you just ask them, what do you have?

He said, I have five loaves of bread and two fishes.

It's like, all right.

And he prayed over it, and he multiplied it.

And we want to see God move in our homes, in our schools, in our churches.

Community is essential, because out of that place, we learn how to love God.

We learn how to love people.

Yeah.

And God bring the transformation.

That's so true.

I think that's what we need.

And I'm like, you know, like, we don't.

We don't.

It's not.

We're not perfect at it.

Like, we learn it every day.

We'll make mistakes.

But our desire is that anytime people come into our life, somehow they encounter Jesus.

Like, at the end of the day, it's all about Jesus, nothing else.

I mean, that's also very similar to how worship leaders should lead.

You create a space.

You make the table.

You say, come on, it's time to eat.

Let's go.

And God says, there it is.

Come feast.

We don't put anything else on the table.

Not our agenda, not our favorite songs, not all these things.

We just open the table and we say, come, feast.

Come taste and see that the Lord is good.

Like, that is, like, very, very similar.

And I know, like.

Like, you're on Worship Leader pod, and some people are like, is this guy a worship leader?

Yes, he is a worship leader.

First of all, I kind of feel like when I started this podcast, I was like, I kind of want to, like, revamp what we think a worship leader is, too, because a worship leader can mean a lot of different things.

And if I'm being real as a believer, we all lead worship somewhere.

Somewhere.

Yeah, we all create a space.

Like you and what you and Liz do for community nights, that is leading worship.

That's our worship.

That is 100% worship.

That's our worship.

Yep.

I encountered God's presence when I'm there.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

And so your role as a worship leader is beyond just honesty.

Platform.

Yeah.

You know, But I mean, I know, like, Keith actually does play the guitar.

He does sing.

He has done stuff.

And I know even that's been different for you, too.

Oh, man.

Like, you were doing it for a while and then you stopped and for a season, wine of family and all the different things.

But talk a little bit about, like that.

I don't know, like, when did you start leading worship?

When was that?

Was that when you're in Ghana?

In South Africa?

Okay, well, I was part of the choir back in Ghana, right?

Choir, yes.

I mean, come on.

That's where you learn a lot of.

I mean, it was one of the most.

I still miss being the choir because I remember a choir teacher always telling me, your mission to know you gotta.

You know.

But, yeah, I did the choir in Ghana and then I went to South Africa and then South Africa when I was a missionary, which is funny.

So in South Africa, back in the days, there was a lot of racial tension.

Okay.

And on the base that I was in, there was this white girl that had a guitar.

And back in that time, a lot of times, white people don't really mingle with black.

Yeah.

But this girl had a guitar and she felt God was telling her to give me her guitar that she bought to bring to the mission base.

Wow.

Because she felt God was going to use me in that.

Wow.

I was like, are you crazy?

Because I don't play guitar.

Like, I didn't know guitar anything at that time because, I mean, I could sing a little bit here and there.

But, you know, I realized that, like, you know, like you said, worship, you know, it's.

It's.

It's a lifestyle.

And I love worshiping God.

And I was obedient, like, you know, and I saw I picked it up really easily.

And eventually I was leading worship and I was doing a lot with it.

And.

But here's the thing also, I realized that, like, sometimes even anything, God gives you a calling.

Yeah.

And we got so caught up with the skills and the talent, and then we missed the moment where God is shaping in us.

And I'll be honest, I got to a place where I was just like, okay, I gotta get better at it.

How gonna sound this.

And I realized, like, no, I don't wanna do worship like that.

And so right now, personal to me.

Yes.

I don't do on stage and whatnot.

But I still Play.

Ask my wife.

Like, sometimes I get home and I had a long day.

I play my guitar and I worship God with it.

Because at the end of the day, to me, like, whether God put you on the platform or in your house, in your kitchen, yes, at the end of the day, we just wanna worship God, right?

And so, like, yeah, I don' in the big.

I do miss it a lot.

Like, because, like, I'm a loud, crazy, jump, loud worshiper, right?

And sometimes I kind of miss it.

But I know, like, God is working my life and someday if he brings it into play, yeah, I will step into it.

But right now I'm not looking for a platform or anything like that.

But, yeah, I love worshiping God and my family loves doing that too.

And I can waste.

I want to worship with you something on the stage.

We're going to bring the house down.

I know.

Come on.

Well, I know you're not done yet.

I know you're not done yet.

I was like, I keep thinking, oh, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Well, and I want to be there too.

Come on.

Because I know it's like the worship and the passion that you have is not for anybody else but for the Lord.

But that does, like, it sets a chain reaction every time.

So, like, I know that God's not.

Done with you yet.

Thank you.

And I'm excited to see what God's gonna do.

I mean, I know you guys are like in the thick of family right now.

You guys just.

You're fostering a bab.

I just need to sleep, that's all.

I need you to sleep.

You are.

It's been good.

I know, but you're working so hard, you guys.

I mean, you guys are really like, putting your hands in the middle.

And I know God does see you guys.

Thank you.

And he is going to blow such a fresh.

I really feel like a fresh wind of his blessing.

Like, it's almost going to be like you've never tasted that type of blessing from God before.

Thank you.

I wasn't.

I got to be here all the time because this is very uplifting because I really need this.

I'm not kidding.

I really do need this.

No, it's good.

No, I really felt that.

And the Lord says I want to bless him beyond in a way that he's never experienced the refreshment that is going to come on your way and then it's going to electrify you to go into the more.

Amen.

Let it be.

So.

Come on.

Thank you, Lord, for that.

Hey, can I put an offer right now.

Yeah, man, this is good work.

Thank you, Lord.

This is good, though.

But I want to encourage you, though.

I think think this is amazing.

We need this.

We need this.

Like, when I say this, I'm telling you that God has anointed you.

Mark this ministry and mark your voice.

Amen.

But whenever God marks something, right, you know what the enemy doesn't like, because you know the impact you're going to make, right?

And so he's going to come against you.

But, girl, like, the thing is, God has already chosen you.

Yeah, Amen.

And you're just gonna walk at it, and he's gonna bring the things that need to be done.

And people are like, wait, this, Amber, is this worship leader podcast, and it's just gonna be God doing his thing.

And I'm just.

I'm like.

I'm like, I'm inspired by your humility and your passion for Jesus, and it just rubs onto me.

And I want to say thank you for helping me.

This is, oh, so good.

I can sit here all day, have this conversation.

I mean, we gotta keep doing this.

No, it's great.

We're gonna do it again.

Okay, I'm down.

This is just like part one.

Let's go, let's go.

Let to discuss.

Bring Liz onto the scene.

I mean, she might have been ready for a bit.

Girl, that girl can bring the house down.

I remember when she preached that awake, and I was like, okay.

She's just.

Okay.

She's.

She's a pastor, but she doesn't want to say.

But I know she.

Oh, yeah, I agree with you on that.

She's good.

Very pastoral.

I'm blessed.

I know this.

I'm very blessed.

Well, this has been an amazing conversation.

We are going to do this again, but I would love if you would just pray over this time.

I really felt you can pray anything else, but I really just felt when we were talking about isolation, if there's anyone that's, like, in this season or maybe they find themselves and they don't realize that they have been put in isolation with themselves, bad thoughts, the enemy put them, saying that they don't belong anywhere, but that God would bring them community and bring them the right people or bring people in their remembrance to come back too.

So just pray over that and anything else that you feel, and then we'll enter time here.

Okay, cool.

Thank you.

Lord God, we.

We invite your presence here.

Yeah, it's not like we invite you already here.

God, we thank you that we get to sit in your Presence and to experience who you are.

Yeah.

And what you represent.

God, I just thank you for this opportunity for Amber and worship leader pot.

God, I just pray that your spirit will continue to move.

Thank you, Jesus, that as we listen to your yes, no matter what comes in our way, we will know that you are with us.

You are for us.

God, I want to thank you that tonight the conversation we have, Lord, I just know that this is a seed that has been planted.

We pray, God, that you will go and water the seed that we have planted.

God, we know that you are the seed bearer.

God, you are the one that multiplies things.

So, God, we pray that anybody that's listening tonight, God, will you just meet them wherever they are at ultimately, God, we don't want them to just experience an amazing conversation.

God, we want them to experience who you are, your love, your forgiveness, your care.

God, but I also want to pray for those who due to life circumstances or whatever the reason may be, they feel isolated.

God, we know that's the enemy's plan.

The enemy's come to kill and to destroy.

But God, we know you come to give life, life and abundance.

And so we speak life.

God, we speak that you begin to break down barriers, walls.

God, that you begin to open doors for people to get conn.

Connected.

God, I just pray for even among friends circles.

We pray, God, that people that are in groups that still feel lonely.

God, I just pray that you begin to open their eyes.

That people will begin to connect one on one of people.

That they will see a need and they will just walk boldly and just reach out to people and take them out of the darkness.

God, God, I just pray for a boldness to walk and not just try to comprehend it.

But God, we will walk in obedience.

Yes, Lord, God, we speak that community will be a big part of our life here in America.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We pray, God, that the lives of the enemy, that this country will have an urgency for community in the churches, in our homes.

God, that we will stop the ideology, that we need to just try to be on our own.

But God, that we can be vulnerable and be transparent.

God, I just want to thank you that even as we pray, you already see the needs.

You already see the people that need to hear this.

God, I pray for this ministry.

I pray that you bless it, that your hand will rest over Amber, that you give her the strength, her and Nate.

God, that you just use them for your kingdom and your glory.

God, I believe this is just the beginning.

But I pray, God that they will Surrender their ways and let them align them to your ways.

God, that.

God that you be the uplift of their head.

God, we just want to thank you for such an amazing time.

Bless our families and be with us.

In your mighty name we pray.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

This is great.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Let's do it.

I love it.

Thank you so much, everyone, for joining Worship Leader pod.

Hey, if this podcast has been a blessing to you, I would love if you would just give this podcast an amazing review.

5 stars to be exact.

A nice review.

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We'll see you later.