1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:06,720 Lisa Stockdale: Listeners, thank you for joining aging in full bloom with 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,640 Lisa Stockdale. I'm your host, Lisa, and today my guest is 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,660 Joe Russell. Joe is the executive director of Ohio Council 4 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:17,430 for Home Care and Hospice. 5 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,990 Joe and his organization are near and dear to my heart 6 00:00:21,990 --> 00:00:26,700 because my day job, my real job is closely connected to 7 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:31,560 home health care, and Joe's organization is sort of on the 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,960 front lines protecting and advocating for our industry. 9 00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:39,750 Good morning. Good afternoon, Joe. 10 00:00:39,990 --> 00:00:41,280 Joe Russell: How are you, Lisa? 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,110 Excellent. Thanks for having me today. 12 00:00:43,140 --> 00:00:44,670 Lisa Stockdale: Of course, of course. 13 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:48,240 Tell us about how counsel for home care and hospice, I 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,330 think I sort of described it, but you might want listeners 15 00:00:51,330 --> 00:00:53,430 to know a little something more a little something 16 00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:54,300 different. 17 00:00:54,780 --> 00:00:58,410 Joe Russell: Absolutely. So the Council for Home Care and Hospice has 18 00:00:58,410 --> 00:01:00,660 been around since 1965. 19 00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:04,920 We started out as a very small, volunteer driven 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,490 organization that really just existed to share resources 21 00:01:08,490 --> 00:01:10,620 amongst home care companies. 22 00:01:11,610 --> 00:01:14,460 And then over the years, it's really grown as the industry 23 00:01:14,460 --> 00:01:21,240 has grown. We we specialize in providing more than 600 home 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,150 care hospice and palliative care organizations across the 25 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:29,970 state with education providers support and technical 26 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:34,230 assistance, as well as government advocacy and lobbying. 27 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:38,430 And we've we've really come into our own and we're really 28 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:42,720 just trying to get ready for the new world. 29 00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:46,230 Covid is really accelerated what post-acute health care 30 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:49,860 looks like, and we're trying to lead the way for our member 31 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:53,910 agencies to to create a world in which more people can stay 32 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:55,320 home as they get older. 33 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:59,280 Lisa Stockdale: Yeah. And I just want I want to read an excerpt from an 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,270 article I wrote recently, which will be published soon. 35 00:02:03,990 --> 00:02:08,730 It's called Receiving care at home has its advantages, and 36 00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:10,620 the first paragraph goes like this. 37 00:02:10,890 --> 00:02:14,430 An emotional attachment to home has now been validated by 38 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:18,180 science. But seriously, we don't need science to tell us 39 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:19,440 what we already know. 40 00:02:19,470 --> 00:02:22,050 Our relationship to home is real. 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,560 The concept of home rises above the constructs of brick and 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,220 mortar or dwelling home provides an unrivaled sense of 43 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:32,750 security, belonging, privacy and comfort. 44 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,120 It's the place we make memories, retreat from the public 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,120 and care for ourselves and our families. 46 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,210 And what we know Joe is home health care providers or 47 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:46,110 advocates is that people want to age at home. 48 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:51,900 They want to get well at home, they want to die at home 49 00:02:52,770 --> 00:02:54,180 homes where it's at. 50 00:02:54,210 --> 00:02:58,500 It is our comfort zone and we're in a unique position as 51 00:02:58,500 --> 00:03:02,760 providers to help them realize that desire. 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,440 And I think that's why we're in love with this industry. 53 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:10,770 You referenced post-acute. 54 00:03:10,770 --> 00:03:13,800 We always talk in terms that the average Joe or the 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,720 consumer doesn't understand. 56 00:03:16,170 --> 00:03:19,080 We're talking about after the hospital, after the nursing 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,130 home, you can go home and continue to receive medical 58 00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:27,960 services there, whether you're on the road to recovery or 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,810 whether you're at end of life. 60 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,840 That's where we have you covered on the home care and 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,190 hospice side, and we're passionate about this industry. 62 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,110 I think you have an idea of why I am. 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,160 Why are you so passionate about it, Joe? 64 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,330 And I know you are. 65 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:51,840 Joe Russell: I am very passionate about home care, and we actually refer 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,500 to it as health care at home because it encompasses so many 67 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:56,520 different things. 68 00:03:56,820 --> 00:04:00,690 Home care and how it works is different than hospice, but 69 00:04:00,690 --> 00:04:03,780 both of those are primarily provided in the home. 70 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:06,150 And then you get into, you know, other services like 71 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:09,600 transportation and durable medical equipment. 72 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,750 And all of a sudden there is a lot of complexity to trying 73 00:04:12,750 --> 00:04:15,030 to deliver services in the home. 74 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,250 I'm actually passionate about health care at home because 75 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:22,140 of my personal experience. 76 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:28,800 I've watched my grandparents utilize hospice and I they 77 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,260 were lucky enough to be able to receive those services in 78 00:04:31,260 --> 00:04:35,430 their home and a little bit of my background. 79 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:39,570 I spent a number of years as a lobbyist for the 80 00:04:39,570 --> 00:04:43,140 Developmental Disabilities Association here in the state of 81 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:47,640 Ohio, and that's near and dear to my heart because I have 82 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,910 relatives who are developmentally disabled and. 83 00:04:52,850 --> 00:04:56,060 I have watched the difference between the life they can 84 00:04:56,060 --> 00:04:58,400 lead in the community versus the life they can lead if 85 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,650 they're quote unquote institutionalized. 86 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,580 Yeah. So when I when I was approached to take this 87 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:08,600 position, I actually was not a home care expert by any 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,920 means, but I already knew and I already had a sense that 89 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,710 this is where things were moving because of consumer 90 00:05:15,710 --> 00:05:19,040 demand, because of costs that are rising. 91 00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:21,410 It's less expensive and higher. 92 00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:26,330 Have better customer satisfaction, so to speak, when when 93 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:28,880 that health care is provided in the home versus having to 94 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,700 get in the car or go somewhere or even stay somewhere. 95 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:35,170 So it is it is near and dear to my heart. 96 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:39,110 This is not just a job to me, and actually, if you talk to 97 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,720 our staff or board, they'll tell you, Joe is very 98 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,170 passionate. I'm very passionate about about this work, and 99 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:53,510 I'm very dedicated to continuing to push for changes that 100 00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:56,930 are going to make living in the community and receiving 101 00:05:56,930 --> 00:05:58,450 health care in the community better. 102 00:05:58,460 --> 00:06:00,920 Lisa Stockdale: Yeah, and full disclosure. 103 00:06:01,550 --> 00:06:04,850 So one of the owners of the company that I work for and the 104 00:06:04,850 --> 00:06:08,210 company that sponsors this podcast, Capital Health Care 105 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:12,830 Network, one of the owners, Care Bernsen, is a board member 106 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,600 at Ohio Council, and she has told me how crazy passionate 107 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,860 you are. And that's a good thing because we can talk about 108 00:06:21,860 --> 00:06:25,250 protecting an industry and people might start to take a 109 00:06:25,250 --> 00:06:29,360 nap. But really, we're protecting people, people who are 110 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,540 vulnerable. What makes them vulnerable is the fact that 111 00:06:32,540 --> 00:06:34,340 they have a health care challenge. 112 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:37,430 Any time we have a health care challenge, we become 113 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:43,850 vulnerable so that it is all about people, people who 114 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:47,540 deserve services and they are readily available. 115 00:06:47,540 --> 00:06:51,110 And we just have to figure out a way to help the powers 116 00:06:51,110 --> 00:06:53,990 that be help us keep doing what we're doing. 117 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:57,860 And I understand we have some challenges when it comes to 118 00:06:57,860 --> 00:07:00,200 that. Talk to me about that. 119 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,530 Joe Russell: Well, I love the fact that you just talked about health 120 00:07:06,530 --> 00:07:10,430 care, especially in this space being all about people and 121 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:13,290 all about. It's not just the patient, right? 122 00:07:13,310 --> 00:07:15,830 It's not just the person receiving services, it's also 123 00:07:15,830 --> 00:07:19,940 their family because we're interacting with families and 124 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:23,960 we're going into people's very personal space to provide 125 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,690 them, in some cases, very personal health care related 126 00:07:26,690 --> 00:07:30,110 services. So we have to be about people. 127 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:31,940 And in fact, if you talk to many of the members of the 128 00:07:31,940 --> 00:07:35,930 association, they'll tell you, you know, we make. 129 00:07:36,110 --> 00:07:39,110 We don't make decisions based solely on business. 130 00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:42,140 We make decisions based upon how we're serving our 131 00:07:42,140 --> 00:07:46,250 community and how we can positively impact our community. 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,870 The problem is, is that we spend a lot of our time at the 133 00:07:50,870 --> 00:07:55,370 administrative level focused on the business of health 134 00:07:55,370 --> 00:07:57,980 care. And that's not because that's not because of our own 135 00:07:57,980 --> 00:08:01,160 doing. It is sort of the nature of the beast. 136 00:08:01,490 --> 00:08:04,460 And so when I'm having conversations with the Department of 137 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:08,360 Medicaid or the Department of Health or the General 138 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,680 Assembly, a lot of those, a lot of those patients, a lot of 139 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,070 those problems are the business of. 140 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,020 Of health care and in it it bogs you down, and it's 141 00:08:20,020 --> 00:08:22,960 disappointing because, you know, there's a lot of things 142 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,730 that are barriers to individuals being able to receive more 143 00:08:27,730 --> 00:08:31,270 care in the home, and it's directly related directly. 144 00:08:31,750 --> 00:08:34,510 It's directly related to the business of health care, and 145 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:35,790 we're working on that. 146 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,390 We're going to continue to chip away. 147 00:08:37,630 --> 00:08:42,910 But that the point about being all about people is exactly 148 00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:45,820 what we want for health care at home. 149 00:08:46,030 --> 00:08:50,800 Lisa Stockdale: Yeah. And fortunately, the work that we have to do to 150 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,260 protect the people who benefit from this industry is knee 151 00:08:56,260 --> 00:08:59,050 deep in bureaucratic weeds, if you will. 152 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,400 And it isn't always fun, but you your you folks are getting 153 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,960 it done. Is there anything on the horizon right now that is 154 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,140 particularly challenging or that you would want the general 155 00:09:11,140 --> 00:09:12,850 public to understand? 156 00:09:14,650 --> 00:09:18,160 Joe Russell: Definitely. I think there's there's two big areas. 157 00:09:18,190 --> 00:09:25,750 One is in regards to how folks insurance works with 158 00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:29,350 providers, and this may not be something that that 159 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:34,510 patients. Often think about, but, you know, when you start 160 00:09:34,510 --> 00:09:37,870 to think about, okay, if I want home care, who can I have, 161 00:09:37,870 --> 00:09:41,620 who can provide those services, the people that might be 162 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:44,470 available in your insurance network might not be the best 163 00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:48,430 providers. They might be, but they might not be either. 164 00:09:48,430 --> 00:09:50,230 And a lot of times. 165 00:09:50,380 --> 00:09:54,460 And this is becoming more and more of an issue is where, 166 00:09:54,670 --> 00:10:01,570 you know, the health plans are are in between the provider 167 00:10:01,570 --> 00:10:04,570 and the patient in a way that makes it very difficult for 168 00:10:04,570 --> 00:10:08,260 the provider to to do it, to do their job. 169 00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:11,770 And so we're continually building relationships, we're 170 00:10:11,770 --> 00:10:14,410 continually having conversations and trying to drive 171 00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:20,590 positive changes that will lead to better relationships 172 00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:23,980 between the health plans and home health and hospice 173 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:27,500 agencies. But the really big thing going on right now that 174 00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:31,120 all your listeners really need to know about is the Choose 175 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,470 Home Care Act. 176 00:10:33,460 --> 00:10:39,580 This legislation is has received bi partisan, bicameral 177 00:10:39,580 --> 00:10:41,530 support in Congress. 178 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,510 And what it would essentially do is create a new benefit in 179 00:10:44,510 --> 00:10:47,980 the Social Security that when and if you get to a point 180 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:53,050 where you need skilled nursing care, that you automatically 181 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:54,100 get a choice. 182 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:58,920 You get that care at home or if you want to go into a 183 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,650 nursing facility now, it doesn't mean that you're that you 184 00:11:01,650 --> 00:11:04,530 can't. It's just we want to make sure people have a choice 185 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:07,320 because there's too many people that are kind of forced to 186 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,840 go into an institutionalized environment and they don't 187 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,030 really want to, but there's no other choice for them. 188 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,300 I think the fact of the matter is is that the home health 189 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,500 benefit for Medicare and and for Medicaid both are 190 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:24,090 outdated. They really need to kind of be updated so that it 191 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:27,150 reflects the current health care system because a lot of 192 00:11:27,150 --> 00:11:30,930 these benefits were drawn many, many years ago when health 193 00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:32,310 care at home looked very different. 194 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:37,530 And so we're really trying to effect positive change in 195 00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:38,550 twos home. 196 00:11:39,620 --> 00:11:41,810 Would really allow that to take place. 197 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,470 We were hoping that it could get passed in this Congress. 198 00:11:45,830 --> 00:11:48,800 We're going to continue to work towards that. 199 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:52,940 But regardless of what happens, we are going to continue to 200 00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:55,020 work on this even if it doesn't pass this Congress. 201 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,900 It's a really, really important development. 202 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,890 Lisa Stockdale: Ok, let me ask you some questions because you have inspired 203 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,680 a couple of burning questions for this Congress. 204 00:12:05,690 --> 00:12:07,670 When does this Congress end? 205 00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:13,910 Joe Russell: This Congress will end on December 31st of 2022. 206 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:14,480 Okay. 207 00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:19,310 Lisa Stockdale: If we have bipartisan support, what's holding us up? 208 00:12:21,630 --> 00:12:23,300 Joe Russell: Well, Lisa, how much time you got? 209 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:30,030 Yeah, it's it's politics, and it's not necessarily politics 210 00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:34,500 that are attached to this issue of Washington. 211 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,620 And I'm probably not sharing anything that's that's mind 212 00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:41,700 blowing here. But Washington, in the state of our current 213 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:43,980 country, is a divided place. 214 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,790 And getting anything done has proven to be very 215 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:52,470 challenging. And so although this is a particular issue 216 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:55,620 that, you know, has a lot of support, which, by the way, is 217 00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:56,760 a very good sign. 218 00:12:59,050 --> 00:13:05,860 Even though it does it, there's a lot of sort of different 219 00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:08,770 pieces and parts that have to fall together right at the 220 00:13:08,770 --> 00:13:10,570 right time in order to make it happen. 221 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,730 Okay. And so and I think if it was just this issue alone, I 222 00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:17,010 don't I don't see that there. 223 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:21,090 Would be much of an issue, but, you know, let's be honest 224 00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:24,510 that there are some stakeholders that are taking a look at 225 00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:28,710 this and they don't love it. And it's undoubtedly because 226 00:13:28,830 --> 00:13:31,380 they're starting to see, OK, you know, for example, if you 227 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:34,680 if you're an operator of a skilled nursing facility and 228 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,190 your census is struggling, you know the idea that now 229 00:13:38,190 --> 00:13:41,130 you're going to struggle even more is a tough pill to 230 00:13:41,130 --> 00:13:44,160 swallow in, you know, in a free country with a with a 231 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:48,990 Republican form of government. 232 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:53,040 Everybody has a voice, and I think Congress is doing its 233 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,420 due diligence to make sure that this is the right policy 234 00:13:57,420 --> 00:13:59,310 for for the country. 235 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,190 We obviously think it is and we will continue to push for 236 00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:05,130 it. But but that's just sort of the high, high level 237 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:08,700 explanation of what can kind of hold things up. 238 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:12,600 Lisa Stockdale: But it's important for our listeners to understand that even 239 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,770 though we say it sounds good on all fronts, there's always 240 00:14:16,770 --> 00:14:20,040 somebody opposing everything. 241 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:24,750 And even though we say we have bipartisan support, it 242 00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,820 doesn't mean that this is of high importance to everybody. 243 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,840 You didn't say that. So I'll say that and I'll own it. 244 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,100 It's important to us because we do this and we see the 245 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,880 people who directly benefit, and we know that we can 246 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,040 enhance people's quality of life by providing an 247 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,090 experience, as you referenced the customer service piece. 248 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,130 It's just a happier place to be. 249 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:51,660 It's your comfort zone. 250 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,080 And there's a bunch of evidence to suggest that people 251 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:01,560 recover quicker at home, but it doesn't mean it's at the 252 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,660 top of every politician's to do list to help the home care 253 00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:10,020 industry and the elderly who need services at home. 254 00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:13,590 It's it's at the top of our list and we're working to make 255 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:15,780 it more of a priority for them. 256 00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:20,250 Absolutely. And it's called choose the Choose Home Care 257 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:20,850 Act. 258 00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:22,890 Joe Russell: Yes, in the home. 259 00:15:23,310 --> 00:15:25,740 And you know, there's two. 260 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:28,470 We've got some really great partners in Washington that are 261 00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:29,850 leading the charge on this. 262 00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:34,140 The National Association for Home Care and Hospice, led by 263 00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:37,410 Bill Darby, has done an incredible job sort of leading the 264 00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:39,120 charge on trying to get this done. 265 00:15:40,110 --> 00:15:46,410 The Partnership for Quality Health Care Working, being led 266 00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:49,350 by Joanne Cunningham, has done another spectacular job in 267 00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:51,870 helping organize advocates to push. 268 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:55,110 But we're really, really what what people can do, who are 269 00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:57,180 listening. If you're interested in this and you want to get 270 00:15:57,180 --> 00:16:03,840 involved is reach out to your legislator, both your U.S. 271 00:16:03,930 --> 00:16:06,210 representative and your U.S. 272 00:16:06,210 --> 00:16:10,560 senator and ask them to co-sponsor the bill, ask him 273 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,180 they'll know what shoes home is. 274 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:16,740 We've been doing a lot of advocacy, but ask them to 275 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:18,030 co-sponsor, choose home. 276 00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:23,400 The more co-sponsors we have, the more likely it is for. 277 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,390 People to or for legislators to for it to get passed, 278 00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:31,410 essentially. And the other thing you can do is we actually 279 00:16:31,410 --> 00:16:36,630 have an advocacy center on our website where people can 280 00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:42,250 sign up for it and can get updates, not just on this issue. 281 00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:44,670 The Choose Home issue, but also all the issues that we've 282 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:51,380 been working on. People can go to WW W o CHC H. 283 00:16:51,870 --> 00:16:57,450 Org slash advocacy slash take action. 284 00:16:58,330 --> 00:17:01,150 And there's a button to click to sign up, you just put your 285 00:17:01,150 --> 00:17:04,300 name and contact information and then you're in the system 286 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:08,530 and periodically you'll get you'll get updates on things 287 00:17:08,530 --> 00:17:10,240 we're working on, including shoes home. 288 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:10,930 So. 289 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,710 Lisa Stockdale: And is there a mechanism on the website for us to actually 290 00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:17,560 contact our representatives? 291 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:21,520 Joe Russell: That is a great question. 292 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:24,070 I am trying to. 293 00:17:24,820 --> 00:17:30,520 Yeah, so you'll you'll be able to to get connected with 294 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:36,670 your legislators through through this and if not. 295 00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:41,950 There are other resources on the advocacy portion of our 296 00:17:41,950 --> 00:17:44,140 website to make connections, 297 00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:48,940 Lisa Stockdale: And we'll make sure when the podcast publishes that we give 298 00:17:49,570 --> 00:17:53,410 accurate information about what the easiest way to do this 299 00:17:53,410 --> 00:17:57,150 is because everybody wants ease of use, right? 300 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,620 Everybody wants it to be easy and there. 301 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,770 I don't know if there's a number, if there's a phone number 302 00:18:02,770 --> 00:18:06,670 that you can call or not, but we'll find all that out and 303 00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:09,340 make sure that we share that with our audience. 304 00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:12,670 You know, when it does publish because we think that's 305 00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:16,090 important. Now I want to ask a few more questions. 306 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,890 Sure. So is home health care as an industry ready to rise 307 00:18:23,890 --> 00:18:28,900 to the challenge in terms of providing the kind of care at 308 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:32,110 home that a nursing home perhaps provides? 309 00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:34,780 You know, in a nursing home, I mean, aren't those two 310 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:35,950 different things? 311 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:43,030 Joe Russell: Yeah, that's a really great question, and it's a complex 312 00:18:43,030 --> 00:18:47,250 answer. But the the simple answer is yes. 313 00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:52,240 So it's important to understand how health care at home 314 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,660 looks compared to other health care delivery systems. 315 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,510 You know, when you go into a hospital, you sort of have an 316 00:18:58,510 --> 00:19:00,910 expectation of what a hospital is and what it looks like, 317 00:19:00,910 --> 00:19:03,280 right? And no matter where you go in this country in a 318 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,030 hospital, they're fairly, fairly similar. 319 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,560 I mean, obviously, some of them have better specialties 320 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,900 than others or, you know, whatever, but they're kind of 321 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:14,110 similar health care homes, a little bit different, and it's 322 00:19:14,110 --> 00:19:15,910 because it's so consumer driven. 323 00:19:16,090 --> 00:19:19,960 We've got programs at our hospital based programs, our 324 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,180 nursing facility based programs. 325 00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:23,830 They're independent. 326 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,690 They're large, they're small. 327 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:30,940 There's we have members that literally only serve their 328 00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:32,190 local community. That's it. 329 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,500 They don't have any big goals of going national or anything 330 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:38,590 like that. So obviously the capabilities between those 331 00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:40,210 different entities are different. 332 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:44,200 Mm hmm. And then also to the way that the programs shake 333 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,380 out at the state of Ohio, with there being so much 334 00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:51,280 fragmentation between these different payer sources in 335 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,460 different programs means that different programs have 336 00:19:54,460 --> 00:19:58,060 developed different areas of specialties. 337 00:19:58,090 --> 00:20:02,770 So, for example, some people might focus their attention on 338 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:06,100 what we call nonmedical care or just your simple home care, 339 00:20:07,030 --> 00:20:10,150 because that's what they thrive in, where other agencies 340 00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:15,580 might focus entirely on the skilled portion of of home 341 00:20:15,580 --> 00:20:17,560 care, which we refer to as home health. 342 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:21,220 Mm-hmm. But at the end of the day, all the work that we're 343 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:26,260 doing and working with our members is to to to get them 344 00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:28,150 prepared for this new era of health care. 345 00:20:28,150 --> 00:20:32,890 If they're not already the the thought of. 346 00:20:32,890 --> 00:20:36,580 When you ask most people what what home care is and what 347 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:41,500 you know, it's a lot of people will either not know or 348 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,360 they'll say, Oh, that's when someone goes in their house 349 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,900 and has a cup of coffee with them to keep them company. 350 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:49,420 And I assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. 351 00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:52,870 Our members are treating very complex patients with 352 00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:54,490 multiple comorbidities. 353 00:20:54,950 --> 00:21:00,640 We everywhere from kids that have traits and, you know, 354 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:08,080 breathing tubes all the way up to advanced diseased 355 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,760 individuals who you know are, we're just trying to manage, 356 00:21:12,790 --> 00:21:13,900 manage them at this point. 357 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:16,600 So who you know, who lived a long life? 358 00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:20,950 Great lives? And everything in between. 359 00:21:22,150 --> 00:21:28,240 So we definitely have the capability to meet the future of 360 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,910 the health care needs, but it's going to it's going to take 361 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,630 it's going to take some more work and there are other 362 00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:37,480 extenuating circumstances that are outside our industry's 363 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,030 control that also also play into that. 364 00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:44,140 Lisa Stockdale: And that's where you say, like when I think of counsel, I 365 00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:45,430 always think advocacy. 366 00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:49,090 But there's this educational piece as well, like getting 367 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:53,950 the industry prepared to deal with the challenges coming 368 00:21:53,950 --> 00:21:56,860 and the challenges at hand and the challenges that we 369 00:21:56,860 --> 00:22:00,640 didn't expect that hit a smack in the face. 370 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,730 And, you know, say, March of 2020, if you were in Ohio, 371 00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:06,610 might have been slightly different depending on where you 372 00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:07,810 live in the country. 373 00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:12,430 But there's these sort of dual purposes of your 374 00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:15,970 organization, and that's one of the reasons that we value 375 00:22:15,970 --> 00:22:17,470 and support what you do. 376 00:22:17,470 --> 00:22:21,490 And the other piece that you alluded to was that. 377 00:22:21,790 --> 00:22:25,870 And I want to say this because I want the the public to 378 00:22:25,870 --> 00:22:29,620 understand as someone who works for a home health care 379 00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:32,890 provider, if it were up to me and if it were up to the 380 00:22:32,890 --> 00:22:35,740 owners of the company that I work for, if it were up to my 381 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:39,550 boss, if we're up to the nurses and the physical and 382 00:22:39,550 --> 00:22:43,000 occupational and speech therapist and the back office 383 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,650 staff, we would take care of every sick elder that knocked 384 00:22:47,650 --> 00:22:50,380 on our door. No one would ever be turned away. 385 00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:53,770 We can't do that because there's this little thing called 386 00:22:53,770 --> 00:22:57,400 reimbursement, and we have to make enough money to keep the 387 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,240 doors open, which means occasionally we have to make a 388 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:07,780 profit. And so if on the back end insurances aren't willing 389 00:23:07,780 --> 00:23:14,320 to give us enough money to do that, we have a problem. 390 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,470 And then the other thing is, if they're not willing to 391 00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:23,050 allow enough visits, you know, say they say, Oh, you can 392 00:23:23,050 --> 00:23:25,930 only have six physical therapy visits, but maybe the 393 00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:30,100 patient needs 10 or 12 in order to realize recovery. 394 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,470 That puts us in a pickle. 395 00:23:32,650 --> 00:23:37,090 So we're doing the best we can, and home care is not unique 396 00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:38,250 in this. I mean, we could. 397 00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:42,430 The nursing homes face the same challenges, but a lot of 398 00:23:42,430 --> 00:23:46,480 times it's the insurance companies, and I'm not trying to 399 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,550 paint them bad or color them bad. 400 00:23:48,550 --> 00:23:53,650 But I'm just saying making a profit shouldn't be a bad 401 00:23:53,650 --> 00:23:57,400 thing. It's it's a requirement in order to stay open in 402 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,620 order to continue to provide care. 403 00:24:00,250 --> 00:24:04,180 And so in order to do that, we need fair reimbursement. 404 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:06,910 If that isn't happening or if it's only happening for 405 00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:10,930 certain segments of the population, that puts us in a bad 406 00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:15,160 spot. And so we're doing the best we can, and that's why we 407 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,960 need to fight the good fight. 408 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,460 Joe Russell: Well, Lisa, if I may, you know, just to kind of drill down a 409 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:24,040 little bit more so people understand what it is we're 410 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,350 talking about here. Yeah, the the state of Ohio in this 411 00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:33,730 past biennium, budget increased home health services by six 412 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,320 point one percent, which in a one or even a two year period 413 00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:40,150 isn't. Isn't that bad. 414 00:24:40,150 --> 00:24:43,600 It's it's not spectacular, but it's not horrible. 415 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,180 But when you take into consideration the fact that there 416 00:24:46,180 --> 00:24:51,250 had been that the reimbursement levels were at 1998 levels 417 00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:53,800 prior to the sixty one point one percent increase. 418 00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:56,440 Mm hmm. It just blows out the budget. 419 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,620 So what we're seeing is, you know, people are losing 30 420 00:24:59,620 --> 00:25:02,080 cents on every dollar that it costs to provide a Medicare 421 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,980 recipient home care and people can't do it anymore. 422 00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:08,200 And and so if you are. 423 00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:12,810 Ohio in with less resources and you happen to be on the 424 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:17,460 Medicaid program, chances are that every day that goes by, 425 00:25:17,460 --> 00:25:21,000 your ability to get access to home care is going to be more 426 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,940 and more diminished because those Medicaid recipients are 427 00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:27,750 being crowded out by Medicare recipients. 428 00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:33,600 When when the company has the same staff and there's 429 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:35,820 providing the same services, there are just two different 430 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:37,320 people paying the the bill. 431 00:25:38,730 --> 00:25:40,920 It becomes very, very challenging. 432 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,100 So you're absolutely right that, you know, no, nobody's in 433 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:47,310 this business to make a ton of money. 434 00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:49,260 If you were, this isn't the business you would choose. 435 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,700 But at the end of the day, the end of the day, health care, 436 00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,340 even though it's a fully regulated market, it is a 437 00:25:56,340 --> 00:26:00,210 commodity market because it relies on you giving me 438 00:26:00,210 --> 00:26:02,070 something or me giving you something. 439 00:26:03,210 --> 00:26:06,830 And so at a minimum, we need to have our costs covered. 440 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,680 And unless, you know, policymakers really put their heads 441 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,030 together to say, OK, all of health care is moving into 442 00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:17,430 community direction, we need to invest in that. 443 00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:22,560 And look, we're not against being held to certain quality 444 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,910 standards. You know, there's a big cost driver for the 445 00:26:26,910 --> 00:26:29,460 state is hospitalizations. 446 00:26:29,550 --> 00:26:33,450 We have a very unique ability to help these health plans 447 00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:36,030 and the state of Ohio keep people out of the hospital. 448 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,210 But unfortunately, that there's just no mechanism for that 449 00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:41,850 right now. And it's really problematic. 450 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:45,960 So we're going to continue to see problems like that unless 451 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,830 our elected leaders and policymakers kind of come to the 452 00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:51,660 table and say, Hey, let's figure this out. 453 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:54,390 Lisa Stockdale: All right. We're almost out of time. 454 00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:59,700 Bottom line is we need the public's help to continue to do 455 00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:05,340 what we're doing, to do it for everybody to do it with the 456 00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:08,550 highest quality in terms of delivery of care. 457 00:27:08,790 --> 00:27:12,840 Ohio Council for Home Care and Hospice Joe Russell. 458 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,340 He's the executive director. 459 00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:16,620 He's the fella talking to us right now. 460 00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:18,240 They're behind us. 461 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,900 But we need you to push some buttons. 462 00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:27,810 Contact your local representative, House of Representatives 463 00:27:27,810 --> 00:27:31,950 or the Senate and tell them to co-sponsor this bill. 464 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,600 Choose home care. 465 00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:37,510 Joe Russell: Absolutely. Thank you, Lisa. 466 00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:38,940 Appreciate what you're doing. 467 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:43,020 Lisa Stockdale: Hey, we appreciate what you're doing and we'll stay in touch 468 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:46,950 and we'll circle back around and see whether or not this 469 00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:48,120 Congress gets it done. 470 00:27:48,130 --> 00:27:50,970 They've got time. It's only March right now. 471 00:27:50,970 --> 00:27:54,600 Joe Russell: It's got time. Yeah, when when you've got it up and posted, 472 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:57,540 send it all over to me and we'll blast it out on our 473 00:27:57,540 --> 00:27:58,380 circuits. 474 00:27:58,410 --> 00:27:59,430 Lisa Stockdale: Sounds good, Joe. 475 00:27:59,430 --> 00:28:00,750 Thank you for your work. 476 00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:02,550 Joe Russell: Thanks, Lisa. I appreciate you. 477 00:28:02,610 --> 00:28:06,060 Lisa Stockdale: Thank you. Listeners, we hope you enjoyed the program till 478 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:08,310 next time. May the road rise to meet you. 479 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:10,470 May the wind be forever at your back.