November 18th, 1993, I'm working in my parents' jewellery store and

my mum's on the counter and I'm out the back. And these two blokes come in and the

next minute one of them just pulls out this handgun. Levels it at my mum, going, don't

f***ing move. My dad, he has this 12-gauge shotgun. I legit

grabbed the shotgun, just went out firing. Didn't ask too many questions.

Yep, yep. I failed marriage, boohoo. It happens to most

of us. Trying to just teach them, I suppose, from just a young age, like, okay, their

mum gave me beautiful kids, but we

aren't meant to be married and living together, grow old, happily ever after. That's

There's so much relatability in speaking to someone that may not

I was dealing with a guy that was closer to my age. I had no idea

that he was so young and seriously, a stubby cooler and a sticker kept

And we're just a pair of average blokes on a mission to try and be

We're going to speak about all things highs and lows of what it feels like to be a bloke,

plus speak to some legends along the way about what it takes to be a better bloke. Let's

get stuck in. Welcome

back to the Better Bloke Project, where today we

are speaking with one of our own. And

this man has an incredible story, as well as just being an

incredible part of the community that we've built together with

It's Mr. Haydoe, OGBA member, how are you doing?

Hey, but never better, never better. Good, good. Apart

A few nerves, first party for Haydoe? First podcast. Hell

of a story, hell of a story. So you first got involved in Bloke's

Advice back in the early days. We're talking eight or nine years ago. Do

I do. I'd only been on Facebook

for legit less than a month, fresh out of a

toxic, horrible breakup of a marriage. And I just had this random

post come through on Facebook as an invite to this bloke's

advice group. And obviously being in the headspace that I was in from

the misso leaving me and being all bitter and twisted, you know,

I sort of took some notice of it. And yeah, it

just got absolutely, yeah, heaps

out of it. I think probably

the most pivotal thing came when I actually wanted to test a group for what

sort of a group I was involved with and I sent a young bloke some

merch. I read his story and it struck a chord with me that he

was struggling with obviously severe depression and probably some suicidal

thoughts. I don't know but I just thought I'm just going to send him a stubby cooler and a sticker

because he commented on not

being able to afford the sticker for a car. You know what I mean? So I

sent him that, and lo and behold, it would have

only been a year or two ago, I was out in the clubs

with my son and all his friends. This young,

fresh 18-year-old Levi Lavis kid comes running up to

my son first asking me, He me. And

then my son goes, oh no, that's my dad over there. And he's come up

and fessed up to me that he was like 16 when he was sort of like on

the platform. And, you know, I didn't even realise. He's

credited me with saving his life and just said, just getting that, knowing

that there were people out there. like a complete random act

of kindness, you know, got him, well,

made him realise why he was actually in Blokes Advice in the first place, what he was doing there, and

curved his thinking, and he still credits me to this day. Every Father's Day, I get a note

I think that's something that's pretty special that a lot of boys will know your name in

the group because of the comments you put up and the conversations

that you have. But what you do behind the scenes of it is like, no

one's, no one's told you to like send some boy stuff or like, you

do that all out of your own pocket just because you love the community, you love helping boys.

And it's just it builds that little camaraderie between you

Well, it's sort of like our money talks, bullshit walks

sort of thing. And like, you know, I'm far

out. I can certainly afford to cop a handful of merch

and I'll hand $10 and $20 stubby coolers out

all day long to get one result. Like, to

get that after such a long period of time, this kid recognised

me because I was wearing one of the shirts, the original Circles. And

he'd come running straight up and just like so publicly in

front of all his mates. And this was before he was too sourced. That

actually everyone understood that. What do you actually do? How are you...how's it

going on like that? And I just said he was a kid that reached out

on this platform that we're a part of. It's the biggest blokes platform

in the world. I've always got the comments from girls going, oh but

isn't that a women hating web? and all that sort

of thing. So, but yeah, that's all managed. They

That's definitely the power of the merch is actually meeting people out

in the real world and being able to like actually connect over something. We

had it this morning, we went out for coffee. It was just before we

rocked up. Yeah, exactly. So we're sitting there, we had the van obviously got

the old blokes advice on it, better bloke project. And

you guys were in the merch and this guy just walked up to us and he's

like, Hey, what's all this about? He didn't know about

it. But he saw Bloke's advice and he knew something was

going on. And he's fallen on kind

of hard times. He was essentially trying to connect with some guys. He

And it took a lot of courage for him to do that. Huge amount of courage. He'd just walk over to

a group of three and it was great. But the way it

But yeah, it was kind of signaling, hey, we're open to that conversation.

He came over, had that conversation. Haydo ran to his car. Of

And that out all day, all day long. So going

back to that, because that was before I arrived. So just say, because this is

probably good for something for our listeners that maybe

they're not fully around what blokes are bosses. They just see a whole bunch

of I guess speculation online, like what it represents. So

you've had a guy just come up to you, you're sitting

down having breakfast with Matty, having a coffee, and then he comes

up to you and goes, what's it about? From a member's perspective, what

Bloke's Advice is a solid community of

just good blokes alike, like blokes

being allowed to say pretty much, you

know, what they like freely and

hopefully with the integrity of the platform to keep, you know, it

in the right circles. Like, you know, I try and my more private

stuff I'll share with ...the likes of my closer friends

that I've made over the years. But I've got guys there for seven years I've been communicating with

generally. Especially the young bloke from the club there

that still sends me every Father's Day. But I thought I was dealing with a guy that was

closer to my age. I had no idea that he

was so young. And the way that he wrote his story was just... ...it

definitely struck me that that's what this group's

about and what... just driving the

message, hey, because I don't care whether I've got a bottle of $2 wine or

a $20 packet of Heart

Rate, if I see a sticker on a car, I'm leaving something on their windscreen

or something to try and get that motivation and

that vibe back that we used to have when it first launched, yeah?

Do you know what I mean? That's

what I like to say. I just wanted to see Blake's advice just continue

I think something you said just then where you was communicating with his guy online

and like you thought he was a guy around your age but turned out to be much younger.

I think that's something that with what we're doing with the Better Blake

Project in particular is taking it off the screens out in person. It

gives you that opportunity to actually know who you're speaking to. Yes. There's

so much relatability in speaking to someone face to face that

may not necessarily be your age. Everyone's got

that experience that they see differently. You can't

get that online because, like you just said, you

thought he was your age. He was much younger, but you still shared a bond over

Like, seriously, a stubby cooler and a sticker, it, like,

kept him from, I don't know, pushing up daisies. Like, that was

probably one of the most rewarding moments I've had since

being on the platform. But when I

was pretty ignorant in the beginnings, like, I was telling you how I had a

dummy spit because someone criticised me when I flooded, sunk

my four-wheel drive. I was having

the full sook and spat the dummy and gave all my merch

back to admin just in protest and I was going to go out and set the

world on fire and start my own. whole

site, which never got off the ground. We had chats

Because even at that point, I remember, you know, I remember you and

I like we like, I wouldn't say they were heated discussion, they were probably heated from

your end. Because you were you were a little bit antagonized at that time. But

pissed I'm not gonna lie. It was just like, that's because it

means so much to you. And that and like, I sort of saw that when we were having

our discussion. So I was like, Hey, look, I know you hated at the moment. Like,

that's just Yeah, yeah. Admin

normally don't get involved. Let's just

let's just have a chat. But because it's like we will get involved if someone's getting

that upset over something, because we knew how passionate you were about

it. And sort of the good things that you've done. Look, I wanted to have that discussion with

you. And then, obviously, you had your time to cool down, you went, look,

all right, look, this shouldn't happen, this shouldn't happen, but

let's sort of just move forward. And then, like,

Oh, well, that's right. I've since learned, like, I pick and choose my ones to

even reply to. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think

there was even one or two negatives on me posting the scooter today.

I was mainly posting because I just tagged it with the bloke's advice. I think

that's whatever works sort of thing. And then I thought, oh, I've

seen a few incidents with these scooters. And because I nearly came off

myself, A few days ago I'd tell you I need to change my

undies. These things are weapons. They go 75, 80k an hour selling them

to kids. But that's open to

Pandora's box of rules and regulations of each state. I

just went there and bought as I needed to get, to have some wheels of

Now I knew you for a couple of years, right? So we were chatting like quite

And then we started doing the barbecue events and you started, you know, coming down.

We met each other in person a few times and it wasn't until like three

events in, you told me this story, which is kind

of formative, I think, in how you've, Viewed the world. Can

Yeah. Yeah, look Look, it's a November 18th

1993. I'm 19 about to turn 20 I'm working in my parents jewelry store

and my mum's on the counter and I'm out the back legit had a hamburger You

know in my hand just watching our little sort of security monitor

Watching the shop and these two blokes come in and it's November and

they're dressed in full hoodie full full

kit and Didn't give it a second thought, made sure the

camera was just recording like I've done a thousand times to monitor if

there's any shoplifting or anything. And then the next minute, one of

them just pulls out this handgun and levels it

at my mum's going, don't fucking move. Like an hour earlier, dad had just

left the shop. My dad who normally sits there and he has this 12 gauge

shotgun that he kept under the back office desk that

he had bought in a week earlier because of a lone

antique dealer in Brisbane was raped and

murdered. during a robbery. So that's when

Dad bought the shotgun into the shop, you know. And

just by fear fluke, I was there that day and I never actually fired

the shotty until that day. And

yeah, I legit, the guy having the gun to my mum, grabbed the

shotgun and just went out firing sort of

thing. Didn't ask too many questions. That

was a big day. Like, while

I'm levelling the guys dying, sort of, because he'd been hit mid-riff, you

know, with a 12-gauge, it's pretty significant. There's not a

lot of coming back from that, if you know how a 12-gauge shotgun

sort of works. in my mind the whole time because I

could hear sirens wailing and I knew I knew they were coming for me

and legit that's the first I was thinking on these police are going to be like the

full look I just felt like the crim I just felt like I've done something really

wrong here because I'm not licensed to you know I didn't just

have me driver's license let alone a firearm uh license

and um the police so honest the the it renewed

my whole perspective of

what I thought police were actually like

and they couldn't believe coming in and putting

it together and suddenly going, hang on, you've got it on camera. And the

funny thing is in those days you might remember the old cassette VCR tapes.

It was on the last seven minutes of a four hour long play.

tape or else the thing would have stopped and we would have had to have manually reset it. So

if these guys waited seven minutes, not if

I couldn't have caught the footage, which was critical to

obviously the court case, seeing that mum retreated before I shot the

first guy, before the second guy got hit and he ran out and

That's what, and you were 19, right? Yep, yep. That's a

lot to deal with at 19. Do you remember, not

You better believe it. It's bad

to say, like, honestly, it was my total becoming

on Thursday, the 18th of November was the

stick up. I think Friday, the 19th of November, I

had the U2 concert. And on the Saturday night, I was at,

...one of the Bucks nights of a well-known barrister

with all the coppers... ...and just having a good time. These

guys were taking me along to all these events... ...and

almost just saying, yeah, this is a young bloke from in the media... ...that, you know,

yeah, shot back. Cos it was all over the front page. Teenagers shot bandit.

And, you know, judge praises bandit shooter and all this sort

of stuff. The hype over, you know, in those days

the front page was big. It was just a game changer for

me. The detectives were amazing, really

took us under their wing. My dad became their

main keynote speaker on their special events where

they do armed robbery seminars and things like that, just to

be a point of difference from the usual lot of petrol

station hold-ups that you see where there's

always an innocent victim there, so they always get away. The bad guys always

get away, yeah? And for them to have one where they've got a

body there makes their job a lot easier. So, you

know, it was legit. And they were just amazing. The support

that the police gave, the family, the whole lot, and

even the media were, you know, the next morning,

Channel 7, 10 and 9 were all at my front door. And that's the

closest I've ever had to this experience here. And I

was because I

knew this was going prime time, you know, at

five o'clock tonight sort of thing. And they still use apparently that footage

at the police academy to show the recruits just a point

of difference from what their normal thing is, that, you know, they can

turn out to any sort of job where they've got a gun. Fortunately, it's

one that you could buy with a driver's licence in those days, which my dad had purchased

and yeah that was three months later it

was cleared through court everything I didn't even I was there set

ready to appear and that and the police it was all sorted

What was that feeling like with you said it was a three-month process through

the courts and whatnot usually like a lot of people have gone through something

so traumatic like that would be ...packing shit,

knowing that there's this court case coming up. But you just said before that they

The next morning Rob, the very next morning the

phone started ringing. And the first one was a Brisbane

journo for a talkback radio. I think

on behalf of John Laws or one of those old ones. They had the reception

trying to get me to be on the feed. And

my lawyer just said, don't talk to the media until,

you know, he susses out what's going on. Because we

were using, like, our local conveyance, and lawyer, we'd... Like,

you know, I should have really had a

different level of lawyer. But at the end of the day, he got through

it just fine, because the police said it was cleared of everything. Everything was

on video footage. Mum retreats clearly before... They

try to engage her clearly before I... came out

of where they couldn't see me where I was. So I got the

element of surprise, which is always good. First one to

Yeah, I think it represents like a common sense case

where it's like, okay, bad guy enters, yeah, terrible outcome, but

you did what a lot of guys would say they would

like to do in that scenario, whether or not they would actually do it or could follow

through. I reckon they're good, Matty.

If it's your mom, that's what I think. I think everyone likes to think they

would. And I don't think I've ever had anyone, oh, I'm

sorry, I had one. Chick once said

to me that Vicentin, because of the Italian surname, and

suggested there were mafia ties. That's why they came

in, you know, because they had this, you know, gun-on-a-knife

arrangement. And then, you know, because it happened then again.

in May 15, 2000. I think I went through

the second hold-up. You know, where this time I

wasn't there. They were well prepared. They'd phoned the shop ahead of

time. Asked, was Hayden there? Blah, blah, blah. No

worries. They'd gotten out

of parole from one of the British prisons

and wanted to prove to their mates that they could pull the job off. That

they were saying, no, you don't go near that shop because they shoot back sort

of thing. And three of them, they pulled up and they had a AR-15

Armalite assault rifle. Pulled

up, walked in the front door of the shop and just sprayed up the gunfire.

16 rounds. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And the first projectile, which

was like, you know, a hollow point carbine projectile, went

through the gyprock wall and grazed Dad's cheek who was sitting at

his desk. and he's hit the floor and

then that was just over the, you know, a military style, so loud

in such a confined place but he's then grabbed the

now new and improved shotgun that we'd upgraded years earlier

after the first hold up and he's come out and pretty much replicated

my effort, shot one of them dead, chased the

other guys out. shot the side of his car out with a

shotgun, shot the side of their car out with a shotgun, and that was in Lavelle Street

in Orang and that brought in every helicopter and

I think the same detectives actually who

were on my job, rang me on the day,

saying, ìOh, Hayden, are you with your mum and dad?î And Iím going, ìNo, no, man, Iím just going to make a handout doing

such and such.î He goes, ìOh, manÖî And I can hear his siren wailing, and Iím going, like,

normally Greg would only ring me up to say, ìMan, weíre going out for a

beer or, you know, come on out, sort of thing.î He was one of our good friends

by that stage. Iíd known him for a long time. And he

said, look, mate, look, we're just getting mixed calls over the radio that there has

just been a lot of gunfire come from Lavelle Street,

Narang. And we know your shop's in Lavelle Street. So can you get

on to your parents about it? And it pretty unfolded pretty

quickly from there. I actually, I just

lost my shit. I just brought down tools that I was helping my mate with.

And fortunately, there was a fire truck on the way out. to

the scene, just to obviously, I don't know, must have somehow been

caught. We fell in behind that, so I got through all the red lights, followed them out. Didn't

get, just wanted to get to see my mum and dad, because my mum, when I finally did

ring and get through, my mum just said, your father's been shot. And

she was, boy, I couldn't understand, ineligible. So I knew she was

No, no, no, no, mum just said that your father's been shot. um

everything's happening here and I could hear helicopters and it was it was

quite a because yes actually that was as

goosebumps just think because I just remember pulling up to the scene and they had the

whole street was crime scene off and they had the soggies there

with the you know the full but the full a-grade dudes

that got called into that many shots fired when there's a bank at each end

of the street And all the banks were locked down, all their shutters went

up, and it caused a... It was a... And after

that, that was the last day of the shop. We shut down after that, cos I

thought, jewellery's no longer a business you

can just have where... Unless you're gonna be in a shopping centre like Pacfair,

where people have to travel some distance on their own, you

know, with a gun. These guys... No, they

pulled up right at our door, charged in. Kind

of humorous, I guess, in a way. The one guy that did get shot, his

responsibility was to go through after they'd smashed all the cabinets and

sweep the jewellery into the bag. That also made him

the last person to be exiting the shop, the one that copped

the main brunt of the shotgun blast. His

role was meant to be to throw the jewellery in the... He

threw the jewellery in the back seat of the vehicle and then he's folded, succumbed

to his sort of injuries and they've driven often, as they've exited the

car park, because his door was open, the jewellery slid straight back out

onto the street and landed at

a lady's feet, pushing a baby and she just walked it casually up to

the door of the shop. Dad's there, blood, you

know, coming out the side of his face because just grazed, like another inch, it would

have blown the back of his head out, like it was legit. Look,

I'm not a God-botherer by any stretch, but far out. Two

times down, like, and for the circumstances to unfold

so incredibly in our favour. Fellas,

to lose that sort of jewellery, which was a family run, in those days

would be just a life-changer. I'd been a very different... I'd

probably be out working somewhere now. I wouldn't be sitting... here

with this sort of time to do what I do, do what I

like to do now. But yeah, those holdups

It's such a common thing that you, like you see just, such,

I guess, chaotic experiences unfold now because everyone's so glued

to their phones with social media and you see all these conversations start going

over like, oh, if this happened to me, I'd be the one to fight back.

So it's that whole fight or flight debate. It's

unreal to sort of speak to you, like obviously knowing you as a bloke. in

the first place, you're not the one that sort of jumps into those

conversations as like, oh, I'm a fighter, I'm a flighter. Like

you just go about your business and you do what you do, but you

see a lot of these guys that say, if they're put in that position, this

is what I would do. Did you think before that,

that like you were a fighter or a flighter, or was it just in

that situation? That's when you tested yourself to know exactly what would happen.

Before the 1st, 1993, not a thought

I'd given to a hold-up or anything, any

unfolding. Moved from 93 to May 15, 2000, seven years later.

Yeah, my brother and I, after that, and we started our own

security firm. All of us were sporting Karen Glocks as

part of our, you know, under our jackets that were in the store. Because it was high-end jewellery.

We had Rolexes and, you know, it would have been a handy pick-up. The

beauty for us is we owned the freehold of the shop. So

obviously we couldn't get that in Pacific Fair. So we

could be very competitive with our price and could buy the jewellery very well. Look, it

was a brilliant business. So in hindsight, if I was more business-minded

and entrepreneurial, I probably should have stayed and kept the shop open

because two jewellery shops opened after we closed down

within two months and they're still going. bangers, you

know, so they're going great, like, you know what I mean? So I

still kind of go out and have a chat with them because they like to just catch up.

They're just old contacts in the industry. Our

time came to an end and yeah, and we'd been there 12 years

So that was about 20 years ago. Something I can pick

up from you, especially in the way that you deal with these young fellas,

your kids and whatnot, you do have a sense

of being a protector. And I feel like, I don't

know if it's linked to that or you had it in you before, but

you definitely, it feels like you have a responsibility

100%. As far as I'm concerned, OK, I failed marriage. Boo-hoo. It

happens to most of us. Do you know what I mean? Spent

way too long crying over that, trying to

understand reasons why and this and... There's

just no understanding the insanity of why two people go so madly in

love and then decide to go hell for leather and

lock horns in court, drag kids through it. It's

just something that is... It

serves no purpose other than just toxifying the

issue more. And it's not

that difficult. And I'm trying to just teach them, I suppose,

from just a young age. Like, OK, their mum gave

me beautiful kids. You know what I mean? And

I'll always be grateful to her for that. But we

ain't meant to be married and living together. …and

grow old happily ever after. That's Walt Disney shit. And we don't live in Disneyland

in my opinion. I just…you know, we get sold this fairy

tale growing up that… …you know, the

loser of the school goes home with the prom queen and things like that. It's just like…they're

just messages that are sent. …give

kids false senses of, I don't know, hope, somewhat

ownership… …if they have their first girlfriend and six months later

they're still stalking her… …saying that they're one and only love and they're like 17. It's like,

come on bro, mate, you gotta grow a set here. You

know what I mean? Like, because they're just…they're folding under…

Life's going to get a lot tougher for them than what they've got it now.

Then seriously, I should have managed my marriage

breakup. I take as much responsibility as my ex-wife for

leaving me. I must have been a miserable sack of shit, I reckon. So, you know, there's two

sides to every story. But I've just chosen

to now make mine about not wanting to see my kids ever

go through a toxic set,

I think, 14, 15 years I was with Kyla.

I thought I was home in host. I thought, you know, being a Christian, yeah, we got this.

This is going to work out. You know, the model works, even if I wasn't such a

godly believer myself. But, you know, outwardly

it was a good thing. But, you know, since

change, this to me is

what it's meant to be about. You know, like just getting

in the face of the public. These meetings in the park, I've been longing

for this stuff from day dot, you know what I mean? Wanting to be

a part of the Black Dog project and

onto the protection of the boys. Because

Thanks, Matty. Little sidetracked. Good save, brother. But I

agree with all that relationship stuff. Very much two sides. It's

just two people can, like you said, be so infatuated and

then go to the opposite and it takes two to tango and every situation's

Right, so you're going out to the club with these young fellas, you're making sure they're coming around

the house, you're guiding them through life's challenges, whether that's relationships,

It's a really first-name basis with all the seconds that I've known since

I've been going to cocky since I was 18. I had a long gap when

I had the kids, but from when the first one turned 18, his 18th

was at cocky's. Still the same owner, Lino, remembered us from,

you know, when I was a kid and he did this big thing

with him and I in cockies and put it up on their public page. Just,

you know, because I've taken all the generations of my kids through. I've had their

18ths, their 21sts. I'm sure we've visited there on their Bucks

nights as well. And yeah, it's just crazy.

It's just my local haunt. And I prefer to, without

wanting to sound weird, be a bigger fish

in a small pond than I

have my kids, I don't know, they're spread out throughout surface not

knowing what they're doing, what's happening, what they're exposed to,

drink spiking. Like I've had the blokes get

their drink spiked and be just as absolutely horribly sick

as what I've had to, you know, take girls out as well. That's

happened with Max and I don't know

how many times we've taken ...spewing teenagers home. But from drink

spiking. Cos they've gone from being completely normal to... ...you know.

And it happens. It's a very real thing. And that ain't happening to my kids. Not on my

watch. Not ever. That's something I just couldn't...you know. And

I'm not gonna sit at home and grow old alone watching America's Got Talent. And

I prefer to be out there and I feel like it's a really proactive... ...the

positivity and reporting that I get feedback from

them... ...about just wishing their parents could be as open and... as

relaxed with knowing what they get up to behind the

scenes of a nightclub. I wouldn't want it any other way. I wish there were more parents

out there. Every time I love seeing someone close

to my age in there, I'll go straight over and say, man, welcome. Can

I get you a drink? Because, you know, it does look

a bit weird. I'm the old grey-haired guy in

the club that everybody seems to know. He's

an all right dude, but I get asked if I'm a sec, if I'm a

drug dealer, you name it, you know what I mean? And I'm just

there to make sure that if something's going to happen to one of the kids, if

someone's going to get glassed, I'm normally carrying a

trauma kit that'll be able to stem a major. lead

I think that that's such a good thing where like most people with what you just said

most people look at like a guy like you in a club like an

older bloke he's got grey hair and they go oh what's he doing here this this this

but The reason you're there is perfectly acceptable

and probably should be happening more because you're there to protect your

children. You want to be part of what they're doing growing up, learning their lessons, doing

Yeah, they embraced me being there. And

Max has said to me, Dave, can I just run my night out

with the boys? No worries, mate. Because I don't know if he gets any dramas at

all. He can call me and I'll be there one way or another. You

know what I mean? It's

our responsibility. It's just a responsibility as a parent. And

I know the toxic relationships I've

seen both throughout, you know, even some of our members

I think are in... relationships that

just, they should just grow up and just let

it go and just keep it good for the kids and play nice and

just everybody will then live happily ever after. Just, you

know, choose to be happy over being jelly over them banging

someone else. It happens. They're not going to be the first, they're not going to

be the last shit. Yeah, I

don't know. I'm just trying to push a very different angle because the stereotypical angle,

something's going wrong with it because violence is on the rise. If

they're not in clubs, they're out stealing cars. It's out

of control from when I was... I dare say the kids age,

I call them kids, they're all 18 to 22, all these guys in there. Yeah,

and even the girls, the stories that they tell me. There's definitely, there's

a place. That's why I want to have you guys there as my guests one night. Just

so you can see what I do.

I don't think I do anything. But yeah, it was pretty awkward at first. Getting

initially to go out was very weird when I had the grey mullet going and all

that sort of thing. A lot of guys come, drug dealer. I'm

Something you just said with a lot of the stories that you hear from these younger

people, both the guys and the girls. you,

and this is probably like not something that most people would look at like us as blokes

and think, oh, they pick up on this, but you, you carry yourself in a

way with this aura that you have people coming up to like, tell

you stories or have a chat. Like, have you ever noticed that?

That like, there's something about you that you just- Every Saturday night, my

I can go out by myself there now

and wander in there and there'll be several

groups that I'll join throughout that night, just to make sure, if

it's been a few weeks since the boys have been out, I just like to go and just touch base with the

Secchies, keep that first name basis going and that relationship,

because, you know, my daughter's 18 in two years'

time, and she's going to be well known

in town that she's a protected species, because when I take

her out, I want to make sure she's at the same space, knowing

if she is spiked, There's no second living and leaving a club

without anyone other than a brother or me. You know, unless it's...

You know, they've asked me about it first. Maybe it's not for

everybody, but honestly, I get such a kick out of actually... When

there's weekends I don't feel like going out, yet they

say, oh, are you coming out tonight, Hayden? You know what I mean? I thought it

was only while Max was back. But when he's away on the rigs

and that, there's... They're still around my place Friday, Saturday night

for pre's and into town and away we go. Yeah. You've

built this sort of like comfort area for a whole bunch of different people

because of... The house is always full, yeah. That's good. Five bedrooms, there's not one that's

empty on a Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. And the lounge normally...

It's a safe space. Yeah, just a safe space, absolutely. Yep, you know. Had

to know all their parents, know all their mothers. They've all met all their parents,

yeah. Because they're all, who's this old guy character? Yeah, but

they sort of meet us and I don't know. I've

stored a blue card in there. I don't know. Yeah,

it's been great. It's just such a... I

just feel like there's something positive coming out of it. I'm not sure where it's going to

I think that's something that, like, with... So, with, like,

my kids, when they're having, like, playdates with their friends and

all that sort of stuff, like, myself and then their parents, like,

we've got this bond, even if we're not... like

hanging out all the time in that where I know that there's houses be

just because like I've spoken, I've got that relationship with parents. If

he wants to go running around today, he's like, I'm gonna rob my bike around this person's place. I'm

like, sweet. No worries. Like it's all because of that. Like

you just said, you speak with their parents and you know, these guys, I think

it's such an undervalued thing now with communicating with like the

My daughter won't do a sleepover until I've gone inside.

That's just a mandatory thing. And I haven't had one ever think it

was weird or keep me at their front door. It's so good. We have people

dropping kids off all the time. We

don't even get to see them. They toot the horn on the driveway and they're letting their kids

go in. Like, Grace is 16. I still ain't letting her go into someone's

home that I have not been in and sussed out myself. I just... Or,

sorry, obviously, yeah, one of the brothers or something. But not

a fun... When? Why would you just... Life's got... …but

there's enough challenges come and then like actually you

can almost invite that… …with some of the stuff that's…that

does happen as real. You know what I mean? And like

I'm fortunate today. None of my direct ones have, you

know, been affected. But I like to think being there and… It

doesn't matter how big or muscly any of these young guys are. An older person, giving

them a dressing down if they're being an idiot. And I'm yet to have one

swing back. They generally... I might... The sec is normally all

over it by then and they say, is he... Do you want him out? Or I'll say,

bro, make the call. You fuck off and leave the group alone

and stay over there, do your thing. Or you want to try throwing hands and you'll be

banned for a year. Your call, dude. You know?

Or I can even buy you a drink now and we can even talk about it. I'll try and let you know where I think

you're going wrong here, mate, because... You've got two big seckies about to

chuck you out. You know, what do you want to do? You know, it's just...

Because, I swear, I reckon if there's got to... Once

or twice, there would have been some pretty serious punch-ons when... If

I call, as soon as I'm up on my end, one of the seckies are always on

Yeah, it's a super interesting conversation and it's one we had

on TikTok a couple weeks ago. It was about parental styles.

We spoke about it on a different episode and as a non-parent it's

interesting for me because I don't really have much of a stay. And

the discussion was on, I guess, finding the balance between

protecting your kids, over protecting your kids, and

letting your kids go out and have, make their own

mistakes. So like, you know, your kids are

grown. You're still involved, but they're grown. Hemi's

nine, so he's yet to face any of these, you know, the relationships and

the alcohol and all that sort of stuff. Like, how

much thought has to go into where you are going

to balance the line between being protective, being

overprotective, giving guidance, letting them make their own mistakes? I

Well, it is. It's one of those things that, and I'm sure like Hayden will

attest to this being sort of obviously he's further along in his fatherhood

journey, but I... Everything that

I've personally been tested with as a parent, it's not something that

you think in your mind ahead. Obviously, I'm not a big critical thinker and

thinking ahead as a lot of people watching have listened, but it's

something you just, it's almost instinctual. Like, you

have you, like your child is born, it's like a flick

Parenthood is the, like I don't know,

I struggle to manage to work out Netflix. I'm not a real smart cookie,

but I tell you what, I'm ultra proud of all my kids. You know,

my oldest one who's the weddings, you know, he's at his wedding and now

I need, waiting for him to come back. bring me a grandkid now, so

another one to start working on the next gen, you know what I mean? But I've still got Gracie and

Maxie, who Max is in and out of the house because he's FIFO and

that, but Gracie, you know, is still full with me and until she's,

you know, and can be on her own two feet and I know she's either, she's out

with the group that I've all known now since... I've

done something with Cesaro in grade 10. They played soccer with Max in

high school. And some of the relationships, long-term relationships he's

developed are really solid. And there's been plenty

that have come and gone. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't all just happen. There's

been ones that I've thought, oh, he's going to be a great kid. And Max is way

out. He said, Dad, no, this kid, you've got to know, he's...

I said, no, no, he's changed, he's changed, he's changed, mate. He was

the first one to, yeah, went something, went walking. Or

if there was a fight to be picked, you know what I mean? There's just... You've just got

to sort through the... There's grubs out there

and there's nothing we can do about that. But if I can do anything about

it, certainly when it comes to my kids and their immediate circle

of friends who... I

don't seem to be very positive to having me around the

place. I'll just keep doing it. You know, it's nothing

Yeah, I think fatherhood. That's

the perfect thing, purpose-driven. It gives you this new level

of purpose. Indeed, indeed it does. It is literally the

Yeah, I mean, that's cool. Bro, I've been on a half a dozen cruises. Kids

have come on every one. Legit, bro, seriously, I put him

in the room, I go up the casino, when I wanna, you know, a bit of finergium, always

puts him out, watch a movie. Finergium for the kids.

Up to this, have a quick slap, oh, half an hour, better run down now,

But yeah, no, just their, yeah, it's

been an amazing journey, and that's why I truly, as

much as, you know, Yeah, I'm open to

the prospect of meeting somebody, but I honestly couldn't imagine

how a chick would probably put up with the amount of traffic

that goes through my house from a Thursday to a Sunday with just...

The kids living their best lives. With pool competitions running around

the clock and, yeah. And I'm proud

of that. I'm proud that they just love coming there and they've got a

place that they can trust. know they can come in if

someone's following them home one night, come to my house, they'll be

the only one coming through the front door and give me a tip, you know what I

mean? So it just gives them that spot. And they've

told me things that they didn't want their parents to know, but at least they've had an adult perspective. And

I've been able to just either try and, you know, point them

That's an incredibly powerful point you raised. Because especially

during teen years kids are biologically

Because they're actually... Going back to caveman days, trying

to get pushed out of the village so they don't do the inbreeding

and all the things that were important back in those days. But

they're not biologically programmed not to listen to another adult. So

when it comes to a teen, it is important that they have other adults with

lived experience in a circle that they're able

Not gonna lie, I thought Grace, my daughter, would be easier than

the two boys. They were brilliant, never

had a trouble with the... There was never a major, major conflict

with either of the boys, but Grace is just at that age

now where she just doesn't want to share with me. So, you know, and

she'll share with... with some of the girls in

the group, you know what I mean? About girly problems

and all that. And they come and tell me straight away if there's anything to be

told. But I trust them categorically. I don't

expect them to tell me all Gracie's secrets about her boyfriend or

anything like that. It

just happens. Natural attrition, I think, Matty's probably the best way to answer it.

I didn't plan, oh, I'm going to over this or over that. If I'm

being overprotective, believe me, the kids will tell me. I can

read between the lines. They don't want...

No worries, I'll go to a movie. They'll call me

at 3am when they can't get an Uber, though, and I'll go and get it then. So, you know,

and I'm happy to do it, mate. I trust my

driving over an Uber. Mind you, the last time I did that, I got caught

speeding and lost my license. Go figure. But, you

know, it's just, I don't care. I'm not, I wouldn't change that. You know what I

mean? I'll do my time and yeah, definitely just learn to watch

Probably a good thing to do. On that, I think we can... move

into a little segment that we've been running for the last couple of

episodes called Bloke of the Week. So... Bloke

of the Week is where we... What's Bloke of the Week's prize? So

Bloke of the Week's prize, so... New car? It's

not a new car, unfortunately. We're

not at that level, but if anyone wants to reach out that may have

a dealership, you know, we'll talk. So

bloke of the week is sort of, we just scour the community

really, and just try and find incredible blokes that

are doing incredible things that maybe some other members or

blokes that listen can, even women, that can maybe draw

some inspiration from. So this week's bloke

of the week is sitting right beside Matty. You're

bloke of the week Hayden. What did

I say? Bit of a surprise for you. So the reason for

you being bloke of the week is you, a

lot of people probably can't pick up how nervous you actually are, but you'll

want to tell your story and just try

and inspire others and use your life experience. That

like, that's a good enough excuse than any to be like- I encourage

I'm a lot, I'm a lot more relaxed and slower speaking. I

do legit, I'm absolutely shitting myself sitting here

and getting the dry mouth pasties and that because I'm just not a person who's

I'm great at one-on-one talking in the little parking, and I'm comfortable with all

you guys and meeting new people in that, but it's because I've

got my peeps. Here, I'm outnumbered incredibly. It

can be very confronting. I think that's the thing that like... But it's an amazing setup.

You guys are driving it incredibly, and it's... Yeah, I'll

be a part of it as... Yeah, I'm with BA for

Well, you're not short on merch because you do have everything, but

we just dropped three new styles. So three brand new tees. I'll get

them coming your way as soon as they get finished printing, which will

be as soon as this thing drops. Um, so

thank you very much for, and also for putting all the

stuff you do into the group. So, so much advice here and there. Absolutely

Get on board, fellas, keep it real, just keep it, because that's what's got

it, you know. The 18 to 40 year

old age bracket of men and mental illness is

a national disgrace when there are groups like this who, you

know, yep, there's obviously going to be the odd ones that give bad. sort

of pay no attention to that shit. Just be, you

know, speak it, pay no attention to the trolls. They get worked out.

These guys get through them one way or the other. Do you know what I

Thank you. And on that note, guys, we're going to round it out. If

you are interested in any of the events we're talking about, go to

the betterblokeproject.org website, hit the events tab. We

just did the Gold Coast one, the Ipswich one. Gold Coast is coming up

and so is Cleveland and we're going to Melbourne as well. There'll be plenty more

coming up. You can find all other information about the charity there as

well as donate to us so we can continue with our cause of fucking

Be sure to follow us on all the socials, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. If

you want, you can have a look at TikTok. I'm a bit off it at the moment, but as

always, be better. Thanks for tuning into today's episode of

Better Bloke. If you got anything out of it, show some love by dropping a five-star review

If you want to learn more about everything we're doing, head to the description, hit

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