This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.

So gear down, sit back and enjoy.

Welcome.

We're an award winning show dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.

No topics off limits.

On our show, we power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.

I'm Shelley.

And I'm Kathy.

Too many women don't truly honor their worth or know how to seek a fulfilling life.

We're conditioned to serve others and often forget ourselves.

Helene Lerner aims to help women build a fulfilling life and prosper.

She's the author of Smart Women Live Richly no Matter what's in Their Wallet.

Helene is a trailblazing influencer and empowerment expert who's dedicated her career to inspiring individuals to live boldly and authentically.

She's a prolific author, an Emmy award winning executive producer, public television host, keynote speaker and workplace consultant.

She's appeared on major media like Good Morning America, the Today Show, CNN, and Fox News.

Her book teaches women how to adopt a prosperity mindset and navigate everything from career advancement and self care to emotional well being with smart, actionable strategies.

Helene's on our show to talk about all of this and we're excited.

Welcome, Helene.

Thank you for being with us.

Thank you, Shelly and Kathy and thank you for all the good work you're doing.

We need every ounce of resourcefulness from strong women.

Oh, thank you.

Oh, thank you.

Yes.

We want to empower women because, you know, there's power in unity.

It takes a village sometimes.

And sometimes you have to communicate to that village and empower it.

And you want to know something?

It takes a village all the time, Shelley.

In these days, you know, one of the things is we can't do it alone.

Honestly, I mean, and I think women sometimes have difficulty because we are the helpers, we are the givers to reach out and get help for ourselves.

One of my favorite chapters in the book is about receiving.

I think, you know, I was asking myself, why is it so much easier for women to give than receive?

I mean, we desire accolades, we desire advancement, we desire awards.

And I realized, and I was very transparent in the book that I won an Emmy Award and there were 300 people in the audience.

Everyone was clapping for me.

It was a team effort.

But I was on stage and I felt uncomfortable.

And when I got back to the table and everyone was saying, great job, great job, I felt Uncomfortable.

And I said to myself, why is that?

It's true.

I had changed professions, but I reached out for people.

I got guidance from mentors.

And here I was winning the top award, and I sat there and it wasn't comfortable.

And what I tell women all the time, which is something I know now, that when we step outside of our comfort zone, it doesn't feel comfortable.

But that doesn't have to stop us from taking that next step.

And what I also realized about giving, that and receiving is that when we're giving, we're in more control because we know what we're giving to someone, we know the amount of it, et cetera.

But when we receive, it's like.

And especially something unexpected.

It throws us off balance.

So I wonder how you think about that.

Cause I really do think that's very interesting.

And frankly, I have learned to receive from watching men.

Because a man will take a job even if he has two skills, and he needs 10.

And a woman will feel that she needs all 10 skills to take that next step.

So I watched my bosses when I was first starting out, you know, take in a compliment, give a compliment, let someone know about what they had done.

And I'll be very honest.

Shelly and Kathy.

I practiced in front of a mirror.

I practiced giving an elevator pitch, in other words, what I had accomplished.

And I set it into a mirror over and over again.

And now it doesn't feel quite as awkward to do that.

I think we're taught to be humble.

I think women have a tendency to not accept compliments the way they should.

It's like bragging, right?

Yes, we're taught that.

And I think maybe we're taught that more than men.

Because if you give a compliment to a man, he'll jump and say, thank you.

Kathy, do you agree with that?

Oh, good Lord, do I ever agree.

But you know what?

Humble pie doesn't work in business.

No, that's what I think.

And it doesn't mean you're only out for yourself.

And I have another book that I had done on confidence, and one of these C Suite leaders told me that when she takes in a compliment or when she tells people of what she's done, she'll remind them that the team brought things on deadline.

So she gives credit to the team, but she said it wouldn't have been done if I hadn't gotten it passed by top management.

So it's not that we're just taking in what we shouldn't be taking in.

It's that we're proud of Something we've done, we want to let people know it.

And we will also give credit to other people.

And, you know, I do think that women, we're conditioned to be modest.

And you're so right.

You can't be modest in business.

I mean, you don't have to be a braggart, but you have to stand out.

People aren't going to see you.

That's right.

No one's going to come around.

And I remember I was doing some work on sponsorship in corporations.

You know, not a mentor, but someone who'll talk you up for promotions and stuff like that.

And I remember the women I interviewed said that they got their sponsors because someone noticed them, came over to them as someone of influence, did that.

And I don't think we should wait for that.

That's right.

I think we should identify the people who are the power players and find ways to connect with them and also show them how they can benefit from connecting with us.

For example, a sponsee in a sponsor sponsee relationship has something to give to the sponsor.

So, for example, a person at a very high level might not know what.

What's going on at the level of a sponsee.

A sponsee can give them clear information about what's going on.

They can also get them articles or things that they think they should know that maybe they don't have time to do.

So whether it's a mentor and a mentee or a sponsor and a sponsee, I think it's a mutual contract, a mutual relationship.

Because if I know, if people come up to me and it's all get and no give, I don't think I want to get connected to them.

When I see it's something mutual and they bring something to the table, I very much want to help in any way I can.

Do you relate to that?

Yes, absolutely.

Yep.

Yep.

I like people who are givers.

And if you've got somebody who's always taking, it's like, wait a minute, this is not working.

That's right.

I think another thing very important for women, and it's not just working women, it's.

It's women and, and men too, actually, that in relationships, one of the hardest things to do is set boundaries with people.

Oh, is it ever?

Yep.

It's courageous because it's easy.

I talk about this in the book to people, please, quote, unquote.

Because it's just.

You don't have to be concerned about what the reaction is.

You don't want to step on anyone's toes.

But who walks away from a conversation when you're people pleasing and you're really resenting big time, what went on?

It's better to say to someone this special gold two letter word and oh, that's right.

It can be said graciously.

For example, if I'm, I have no bandwidth.

And Kathy and Shelley, the people that I meet, cross industries right now, people are exhausted.

I mean, they're really exhausted.

We've come out of COVID There's a hybrid workplace in most cases, and it's exhausting.

You can't expect two or three vacations and then just jump into where you are or where you're going.

It's difficult.

So it's very important to set those boundaries.

And it's okay to say, you know what, I wish I could help you this time, but I just don't have the bandwidth to do it.

But maybe Polly can do it.

I know she had a little space and maybe that's a good person to ask.

Call on me in about three months, I'll probably have a little more space.

So that's a gracious way of offering an alternative and also saying, I'm not rejecting you right now.

I'm just saying, no, call on me in three months.

Sure.

And it's hard to do that.

I mean, it still is.

It takes courage.

It does.

But we have to give ourselves some grace and be graceful with other people and let them know, you know, hey, I need some space right now.

I don't have the bandwidth.

And people really inherently understand that.

They just don't like the word.

No.

Nobody does.

I know the hardest part for me was to learn how to be kind to my own mind.

You know, where we're the hardest on ourselves and to flip that switch in your thinking and say, wait a minute, you know, if you, if you're looking for, for anything, look to yourself to be kind to, to who you are, to what you've been through, through what you survived, you know, your battles, your, your everything and acknowledge that you know that's right.

And you know what?

I started, Kathy, you're absolutely right.

And in the book, I have lots of practical exercises so people can reframe how they're talking to themselves and how they talk to other people.

Stay tuned for more of women road warriors.

Coming up.

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Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.

We feature a lot of expert interviews, plus we feature celebrities and women who've been trailblazers.

Please check out our podcast@womenroadwarriors.com and click on our Episodes page.

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We want to help as many women as possible.

Let's be honest.

Too often we downplay our worth, brush off compliments, and think humble pie is the only thing on the menu.

But that doesn't work in business or in life.

Our guest Helene Lerner says it's time to honor yourself, stand tall and take that well deserved applause.

She's the powerhouse behind Smart Women Live Richly no Matter what's in Their Wallet.

Helene is an Emmy Award winning producer, author, speaker and all around empowerment trailblazer.

She's been featured everywhere from Good Morning America to cnn and today she's sharing the keys to building prosperity, fulfillment and confidence.

Helene, in our last segment, you said you have a section in your book that helps readers reframe how they talk to themselves and other people.

That's a super valuable tool.

So what happens with me?

And I don't have have this.

I'm called an expert, but I'm just another person who slips and slides.

But I'm catching myself more.

For example, when I stop and I say, wait a second.

I call it mad mind chatter.

What am I telling myself right now?

And is it true?

Is it really true?

And most of the time it isn't.

But we can catch ourselves like we're great mothers to younger people, right?

Why can't we mother ourselves?

So I say to myself, wait a second, you just said this, this and that.

Is it true?

No, it isn't.

Okay, stop Helene, stop.

And then I go on to something productive.

Take an action.

The next ride.

Action.

I think we have a tendency to have all of that going on in our heads.

I'm not sure men do that.

I think that they can compartmentalize better than women, you know, and they don't have a guilt factor because we doubt ourselves, we feel guilty, and men just kind of plow along, it seems like.

Well, I think guilt is such a useless.

If you even want to call it an emotion, guilt.

First of all, we're all exhausted these days, so we only have a certain amount of energy.

Right.

And I love this description.

Think of sugar cubes in, let's say, the shape inside a woman's outline.

Okay.

And we have a certain amount of sugar cubes, which I'm calling energy.

And if we start feeling and dwelling on worry and guilt and fear, what happens to our sugar cubes?

Maybe we're left with one.

Am I correct?

Yeah.

So we have to watch.

And I'm using this word now, that negative vacuum cleaner that's going to sift our energy.

And the best way, when I can't do it for myself, like I said, I am not being a good mother to myself.

I see that madmind chatter, but I can't.

I'm stuck.

Then I call someone I trust, a friend, and I'm available to that friend when they need it.

Right.

So it's not doing this alone, you know?

Yeah.

Reaching out for help.

And I have a huge following, and this is.

Was one of the most popular memes.

Reaching out for help is not a sign of weakness.

It's a sign of strength.

That's very true.

Yes.

It is one of the hardest things to do, though, sometimes lift that phone.

It almost weighs 10,000 pounds, you know.

So what gets you to do it, Kathy, when it feels like £10,000?

Well, coming from many years of addiction like alcoholism and losing everything I've known and I've had to take.

I took two years off life just to get treatment.

The shame and guilt kept me from lifting that phone.

However, since all the transformation, now I can recognize my triggers and I know what I need, what I don't need.

And it's so much easier to say, hey, can you just, you know, you want to come over for coffee?

Or I got this.

Or this.

It's not.

Not because.

Well, number one, I'm not carrying guilt and shame, but number two is that I have the tools to help myself when I'm stuck.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, that's really beautiful.

And in the book, I have lots of tools for people.

I really believe I. I wrote this.

It's my 15th book, but I. Wow.

Yeah.

But I. I'm working on my third.

And I thought I was doing good.

You did 15.

Yeah, but, but listen, it took me the longest to write because I do believe the world is in a very crazy place these days and many people feel off balance.

And I wanted to give someone tools, practices that they could do that if they really were looking for a mindset to transform themselves, they could.

So I have lots of practices that people can do.

I give you a lot of credit, Kathy.

You saw a problem and you took time out of your life to learn new ways.

And I know that's not easy.

But if we're feeling exhausted and we're overwhelmed and also as women get to a certain age, I've been speaking with a lot of women recently who are going through menopause, perimenopause, given what's going on in the world.

Plus that we're not going to be able to make wise choices.

So it's time to stop, realize we can't do it all, and reach out for help.

Whatever form of help that looks like.

For some people it could be addiction.

For some people it could be a diet club.

For some people it could be just calling a friend.

Whatever it is, don't do it alone.

And as I was saying before we started this, Shelly, there's an epidemic of loneliness now coming out of COVID People are hungry to connect.

Don't listen to that mad mind chatter that tells you you don't deserve it.

No one's going to listen to you.

Whatever your brand is, whatever it is, listen to your heart.

Your heart tells you you need help.

Your heart tells you that you want more for your life.

Your heart tells you, why can't I take that next step?

Why not me?

Stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming.

Industry movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers and more.

Help us promote the best of our industry.

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Learn more at Trucking Moo's America May.

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Here's something every woman needs to hear.

You don't have to settle or play small.

Too many of us are conditioned to put ourselves last.

But Helene Lerner is proof that that when women honor their worth, incredible things happen.

She's an Emmy award winning executive producer, a public television host and a sought after workplace consultant.

She's also the author of Smart Women live richly no matter what's in their wallet.

Helene has been featured on the Today show, cnn, and Fox News.

And she's dedicated her career to helping women embrace a prosperity mindset, rise at work, and thrive in life.

If you've ever hesitated to take credit for your hard work, Helene's here to remind you it's time to stand up, shine, and own it.

Helene, your book is a wonderful tutorial to success.

A gps, really, for women, smart women living richly no matter what's in their wallet.

You have a step by step approach.

I mean, your chapter, the first chapter, shifting from Poverty to Prosperity, A Road Less Traveled.

The theme of the chapter is letting go of a poverty mindset.

And it really does seem like when we deny ourselves, we kind of do have that, don't we?

When we deny ourselves, yes.

And the thing that's happening outside ourselves.

In the past, we might have been able to get some kind of confirmation from outside ourselves.

These days, I don't know where we can get the confirmation outside ourselves.

The media is nutso.

The government has so many changes.

AI is constantly changing.

And I must say, I use AI and I'm so grateful for it.

But a lot of change is happening.

Yes.

So the one place that we can get that affirmation that we're looking for is within ourselves.

Someone said to me the other day, Shelly Zealous, I told her, I mentioned it on another broadcast, but I really liked it.

And she's head of the Female Quotient, and she said, instead of empowerment, I call myself an empowerment expert.

What about empowerment, meaning going within?

And I think she's absolutely right.

It's about going within and reconnecting with your core values.

You know, by doing the work, by doing the exercises, by reaching out for help, by exercising muscles I never had.

Kathy, I relate because I never, you know, I was taught children should be seen but not heard.

And you don't tell dirty laundry to the neighbors.

And I, God bless.

I love my parents and they're no longer here, but I heard this growing up.

So it wasn't easy for me to start being authentic, leveling with people, letting them know how I feel, reaching out for help.

But once you start doing that and you start helping other people, what happens is that inner muscle grows.

Like we go to the gym, right?

And we grow, we tone down and we do whatever the body thing is.

It's the same inwardly, we grow that inner muscle.

And now I must say that intuition is much more available to me than it has been in years.

No, I also Want to say I meditate, I pray, I take care.

I swim every morning a little bit.

So I'm taking care of myself.

If I'm going crazy, I call a friend.

I'm doing the things that won't keep me stuck.

So that vacuum cleaner is taking all my energy.

Now I have more, more available to me.

That inner knowing, that intuition.

Do you relate to that, Shelley and Kathy?

Oh, yeah.

Good God, yes.

Absolutely, yes.

And you have all of these nuggets in your book.

You cover so many things in all of your chapters.

I know.

How did I do that, Shelley?

I don't know.

It came out.

All of it.

It's amazing.

And you really give people a route to follow and get them thinking differently.

I wanted to have you maybe highlight some of the chapters because there's so much here, and I want people to kind of get a taste of everything, you know.

One of my chapters, that's my favorite, one of my favorites, so the Receiving is definitely one of them that I think is really important for women because if we're exhausted and we're giving all the time, we must take in as well and receive to keep that flow going.

But another chapter that I love, and I hated it when I was younger, I absolutely hated it.

The chapter is called Discipline Is My Friend.

I hated discipline in my 20s.

Oh, my.

It was like authority figures, you know, let me do anything.

If someone asked me to do something, I would do it if I was working.

But I didn't like, you know, these authorities coming and telling me what to do.

Yeah, I agree.

I. Oh, gosh.

As a kid, I hated it.

And you're right.

Oh, yeah.

And now, now what keeps me going, which has helped me be as successful as I am, is that on those days, and we all have them, I call them hanging on days.

On those hanging on days where I don't want to get up, I don't want to get out of bed.

And believe me, people around the world are feeling this a lot these days.

Having a routine, having that discipline keeps me going.

So I know and I, I, I share a little bit about this in the book, but it's whatever works for you.

So in the morning, I get up and I do some meditation.

I, I don't do a lot of swimming.

I'm very lucky.

I live in New York City and there's a health club near me, so I do a little swimming, which gets my body going.

I have an action partner I speak to in the morning briefly.

We share what we're going to do in terms of work actions in the day.

And that keeps me going on those days where I don't want to get up.

Isn't that true for you?

Yeah.

You know what I have on my wall, I created in my office a wall of love.

Because what it is, is letters, pictures, texts, you know, notes.

I have gifts from people around the world.

I have all the people write notes on napkins.

And I made a big.

My entire wall.

And because when on the days that I don't feel like I want to get out of bed or I lose my motivation, I lose my focus, what do I do next?

And I look at that wall, and that is my reason.

That is my why.

You know, when they say, find your why?

That is my why.

That is beautiful, Kathy.

That.

See, one of the things I've realized, I've always been a very driven person.

So I liked having two Emmys and seven Gracie Allen Awards, Most Valuable Programmer for my distributor.

I loved the awards.

That was great.

But what I realized is I was running so quickly, so, so fast, not taking the time to let things come in, to receive, right?

That in the book I talk about the little things in life are really the big things.

And when you talk, Kathy, about your wall, I saw all those little moments with people that you probably really connected with.

That's the gold.

And.

And we forget that we think the gold is only the gold in the bank, and that's really the gold.

So the little things in life are really big things.

They really are.

And we tend to ignore them, and we shouldn't, because that's really what makes life worth living.

I think too often people are so.

They're not in the moment anymore.

They're just glued to this device that's telling them how to feel or motivating them or getting them to buy something, and they've forgotten the humanity and smelling the flowers, smelling the roses.

And I think your book brings people back to a lot of that.

You've got, what, 18 chapters in this book?

It just kept pouring out of me.

But as I said, I wanted to give people a lot of practical information.

Some of the chapters, I'll put my glasses on, thinking bigger, as you said, letting go of a poverty mindset.

And I have things, you know, for your own reflection and nuggets from your heart.

Because I really think our power is in our heart, not our head, not the mad mind chatter.

And when you communicate with people, if they feel they're connecting with you.

I have a chapter in the book, another one that I love that I really haven't heard too many people talk about.

So I decided to is making business friends.

And what I mean by that is during COVID one of the better things that came from COVID is that we saw people on zoom on one of the virtual things.

We saw them with their kids pulling at them.

We saw them with dogs, we saw their humanity.

As I said, I think we're all going through a mental health crisis.

I think there's a lot of post traumatic stress that hasn't been attended to.

You know, after going through five years, we were told many of us we might die.

And now we're back.

And I think there's a lot going on.

And what I think is important is that people need to know you care.

In a business deal, it's not enough just to bring, what can I say, to bring some product that works well for them.

I feel, I mean, it's great to do that and that's the first step.

But when I deal with people, I really want to know about them.

Unless they set up a boundary and it's give me the product.

That's it.

In the book, I talk about in a very simple way, people who are like storytellers, like me.

I like to tell stories.

I think, Kathy, you're like that as well.

You noticed.

But I've also noticed that people in business, there are people that short to the point, you know, so I respect that and I speak their language.

But I think people need to know in business and corporations that you really care about them.

I mean, I'm not talking about people that are sloughing off a job or something like that, but that it's just not about 9 to 5 and how are they progressing?

What are they going to do?

I was just, I did some events at Walmart and I, I love the company now what they're doing, they're really investing in their people and their founder.

They had a hologram in the museum and I took a picture with their founder shaking his hand.

And he truly believed that the associates should be benefiting, not just the people, the owners of the company.

And I do see with some, some of their C suite leaders, they're really terrific.

And I think all of us need to know that people care.

I mean, if you go in and make a business call and you hear someone sniffling or having a cold, am I going to start selling them something?

I'm going to say, how are you feeling?

You don't sound too good.

Yeah.

And you know, unless they really put up a wall and say, I have five minutes, what do you want to do?

I'll, I'll spend some time and in fact, I'll even if, if that's all we do is connect that day, I'll set up another time where I can go and talk to them about what I wanted to talk to in terms of product or whatever it is.

So making business friends, it doesn't mean that you're going to share all your dirty laundry, but it means that you're going beyond the call of duty.

And I think people really know that.

They repeat they want to work with you.

What's your experience, ladies?

Getting to know people, it's really important and it's rare, I think now that you actually have people who will take the time to do that.

And that's what's lacking.

I mean, I think that that's the way things were done years ago.

I'd like to believe that maybe that's just a utopian idea in my mind.

But I think that we've lost the ability to have empathy.

I think that's true.

Business wants the bottom line.

I mean, that's why business is business.

But in the last several years, going through the changes we've gone through, empathy, compassion has been at a premium.

So no matter what government regulations or whatever else, there are these amazing leaders.

They're groups like Catalyst Inc. And groups that really believe in the advancement of women.

And they bring together CEOs from Fortune 500 companies on their boards.

Many of these people have the right idea.

So yes, they need to sell and they need to grow profit and they have shareholders.

But there are a lot of, I see more perhaps of people who are bending and wanting to make a difference.

Stay tuned for more of women Roadblocks Warriors.

Coming up.

Industry movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers and more help us promote the best of our industry.

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Let's talk about owning your own power.

Too many women downplay their worth, but Helene Lerner shows us what happens when you flip that script.

She's an Emmy award winning executive producer, a public TV host and a leading consultant who's been spotlighted on the Today Show, CNN and Fox News.

Her book Smart Women Living Richly.

No matter what's in Their wallet gives women the tools to thrive with confidence and a prosperity mindset.

Helene's mission is simple but powerful.

Help women rise, prosper, and live authentically.

Helene, you cover so many different facets you of where people can grow not only in their personal but their business life.

Do you have some specific highlights that maybe you could kind of summarize?

The book.

I know it's kind of hard to do because you've got so many goodies here.

I'm kind of scanning through the table of contents.

It's like there's so much we can talk about.

I like one of the things.

Well, there are six keys.

So the book is smart women live richly no matter what's in your wallet.

Six keys to unlock true wealth and prosperity.

So it's not only a book about making money.

It's true when you have a prosperity mindset, when you're appreciating the day, when you're grateful for what you have, you're more attractive and you attract more in your life.

But it's about a lot of different things.

So, for example, the six keys are giving up.

We gotta let go of the stuff that ain't working, because if we keep doing the same thing over and over again, we're gonna get the same results.

Most of us are not happy with that.

And the second key is about getting more.

You know, I loved.

I don't know if you know of Louise Hay, but I was very fortunate.

She was the founder of Hay House Publishing, and I knew Louise.

And when I started out many moons ago, my hair is red, but underneath is a lot of gray.

When I started out many moons ago, there was something that Louise Hayes said that has always stayed with me, and I didn't bring that part in the book.

I had my own way of saying it, but she said, what do you go to the ocean with?

Let's say the ocean is love, right?

And you have this image of an ocean.

Do you go with a thimble or do you go with a soup doreen?

And the bottom line is there is enough for everyone.

So if you're doing amazingly well, you're not taking away from anyone else.

There's an abundant universe, and it's starting to think bigger about what you can achieve, what you want, what your visions are.

And the third key is about gaining momentum once you start letting go of some of this stuff you've been holding on to.

There is a space.

I have a video on YouTube about decluttering.

And I was so scared.

I never considered myself a clutterer.

But then I took a look at my closet, and there were a hundred VHS tapes.

And what I realized is I was keeping that because I was afraid to let go.

If I let go of that, where would I be?

My shows, my VHS tape?

And you know what I found out?

That when you let go of that clutter, whether it's physical clutter or mind clutter, you have yourself.

So all that creativity that I thought was just in that VHS tape, it's in me.

So it's scary to let go.

But as you step out of your comfort zone, it does not feel comfortable.

And, Shelley, I hate the word fearlessness.

I have no idea what it means when you step out of your comfort zone, when you do something different, when you start to think bigger about yourself, it's not going to feel comfortable, except with support.

You don't have to stop.

And I'll tell you the one story that I have which helped me define my definition of confidence.

I wrote two books on confidence.

I was interviewing C Suite, actually.

She was the CEO of a $12 billion insurance company at the time, and she was the chief marketing officer in 2008, when everything tanked.

And she was at a C Suite meeting.

And she said to me, helene, I told them, we're going to focus on growth, not recession.

And she said to me, you should have seen my knees.

They were shaking under the table.

So my definition of confidence is moving forward when you think you can make a difference even with shaky knees.

So that definition of looking at someone else who looks confident, no one is as confident as we think they are.

So we might as well take a step outside our comfort zone.

I agree.

Yes, I totally agree.

I operate the largest equipment in the world.

And two years ago, at the age.

Of 54, I had to learn how.

To operate the biggest dozer in the world, which is the size of a double car garage.

And it takes a year to train on these things, and at the very end, they keep the worst for last.

So imagine you're on the.

On the cliff of a Grand Canyon, and there's a shovel beneath you, and his bucket is there.

My job is to push the dirt to the shovel so you can't see anything because these blades are so big and it's pitch black as it's night shift.

And the only talk about stepping outside your comfort zone is as you're pushing to the edge of the cliff, the whole dozer will tip over and kill you back up.

But what that job has done, the more you do it, the more a little bit Comfortable, you get to the edge.

But what that job has done is given me confidence.

It's given me backbone.

It's given me leadership.

It's.

It's.

It's given me the.

The ability to face problems with a stat, a stronger stance, if you know what I mean.

So it's been such a gift because to.

If something comes my way now, it's like, ha, that's nothing.

You should see what I was doing last week.

Right, Kathy?

That's terrific.

That's really.

Because the reverse of that is when you know what to say, you're in a meeting in a corporation, everyone is talking about how to handle something.

None of it's going to work.

You know the answer, but you're afraid to speak up because you think you're going to be shot down.

So you go home that night and you wonder why the next day you don't want to go into work.

So that is the total opposite of stepping out.

And what's the worst that can happen?

You can be shot down.

So what?

Maybe it's not the right job for you.

Maybe you can speak to someone about how they treated you.

But when you know the answer or you know you're able to do it, even if you're afraid and you don't do it, it's a killer.

It kills our spirit.

So I love what you said, Kathy.

I love that.

So, Helene, have we covered all the keys that you cover?

Actually, I'll give you just a few other keys.

I also respect the people who give back because I know I've been given so much.

And I think what really distinguishes me from a lot of other people who don't go the extra mile is that I come from a spirit of service, because I can get.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And I want to put the sheets over my head and.

And then I push from service, not ego from service.

And then I get the yes.

So when I come from really knowing that I have something that I can offer that might help someone, then I move through it rather than stop with my fear.

So I respect people who give back.

And the fifth key is going the extra mile.

And the sixth key, which I challenge all your listeners, is creating a greater life for yourself.

Isn't that what we hunger for, really?

You know, I think the biggest shame.

Kathy, you brought up shame at the beginning.

The biggest shame.

I believe every one of us is a leader.

I don't care where you are in the pecking order.

I think all of us are leaders.

But we have to pick our issues.

So we pick an issue and we have something to contribute.

And the biggest shame is when we don't do it.

That's when we get upset, angry at ourselves, angry at other people.

It's like a faucet of water that gets rusted.

The water is our talents and our gifts.

And when the faucet gets rusted because the water isn't being used, that's the shame.

That's the shame.

It's not in the nose, because you're bound to get a nose.

In business, when you offer your talents, you'll get the job.

You may not get that job.

You may not.

You have to develop.

I've never developed a thick skin, but I get a lot of no's, and that's just the nature of the business.

But I keep going from a spirit of service and knowing I have talents and gifts that are needed now.

This world, and I'll end with this.

This world is in a tragic place right now.

It needs every bit of your listener's resourcefulness.

Each of us has been given special talents and gifts, and we'll develop them throughout our lives.

It's not okay, folks, to sit back and not say anything anymore.

It's not okay not to use your talents and gifts.

And it's not just for you.

It's for everyone you could touch.

Amen to that.

I totally agree.

Helene said, I love your philosophies.

I love all of your knowledge and your insight.

Where do people find your book?

And how do they connect with you?

Okay, you can go on Amazon now.

The book is coming out in October.

I'm going to say the title again.

Smart women live richly, no matter what's in their wallet.

I'm Helene Lerner, and I'm the Women Working Brand.

If you go to womenworking.com, you'll see all our social media links, and we welcome you.

And what do I want to leave you with?

Oh, I love this.

I think it could have been Norman Vincent Peale that said this.

I am not 100% sure, but I loved it.

And when I had not built the career that I've built, I was sitting and listening to that amazing speaker, and he said, don't quit before the miracle.

Mm.

I love it.

Yeah.

Yep.

Thank you so much for your amazing insight, Helene.

You're a true inspiration.

Well, thank you for being you, and thank you for doing all your good work.

And I'm so happy, Shelly, we were able to do this.

Thank you so much, Helene.

Glad we were able to coordinate.

It's been a great interview.

We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.

And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and don't forget to subscribe to our podcast.

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You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Takaro.

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