What type of spirituality was practiced in the house growing up?

We were religious then, so, you know, I grew up religious.

I grew up Southern Baptist.

So we went to church.

We, you know, went to all the revivals, Bible study, Sunday school.

That's.

That's how I grew up.

Are you still doing it?

No.

When did you.

No, that was a quick.

When did you step out of that?

Me, myself, I started stepping away from church, like, fully around 33, 34.

Well, how old are you now?

Huh?

38?

33.

So the transformation just began, so about five years ago?

Yes.

Well, when did you start?

Oh, wait, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

You said, you said that around 32, 33, like, the whole church thing stopped.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's around the time that you have.

I don't know, I think it's like your.

Your third Jupiter return.

Is that right, Paul?

I'm not sure.

Yeah, it's like, because, yeah, around 33 you have a.

A Jupiter return.

So you kind of come into like a. I guess, you know, like a.

Like a start of a new belief if.

Right.

Well, 33 would be the Christ age as well.

And you spoke on that in my reading.

I did.

When you went back to, like, show all the stars of, like, major life events.

Huh?

You spoke on it.

You was like, well, I'm not surprised that you stepped out around this time.

And I was like, this is so dope.

There you go.

I'm sorry, I don't remember.

That happens to astrologers.

Huh?

That happens to astrologers.

I mean, you know, sometimes.

Well, I know you probably can understand, Missy Lee sometimes when you in the middle of doing your thing, it's kind of like you're in a zone.

And, you know, after it a few weeks, somebody may come and say something to you like, hey, you said this.

And you're like, man, I don't know what you're talking about.

That's a daily occurrence for me.

Really?

Yes.

It's strange.

And people kind of look at you strange, like.

But, hey, you're not the only.

They shouldn't look at you strange because what you do, right, and how you're studying and learning other people and you do your own form of readings and divination.

I do my own form, yes.

They should not expect us to continue to carry that around with us every day.

You know, we have to get that information and that energy off of us.

It's not ours.

It's for us to use to help someone else.

So I done helped you.

You got your messages Let me get this off of me.

That's too much information to hold on to.

And then that would be kind of selfish of you to really think that you're so that important.

And I'm just going to remember every aspect of your thing, how many people I talk to.

So when did you first start getting into Tarot?

I actually didn't start out with tarot.

I started out with Oracle cards.

What's the difference?

For me, Tarot cards are for.

I'll put it like this.

For me, Tarot cards are more harsh, you know, with the message direct.

Oracle cards are more softer with their messages and answers, more softer approach.

But it's also more solutions based, if that makes sense.

Absolutely, I would agree with that.

Yes, it does make sense.

It's kind of the reason why I switched from modern astrology to Hellenistic astrology.

Because it's more.

It's not more.

Hey, come sit down.

Let me hold your hand.

It's, you know, X's and O's and hey, this is what it is.

The raw truth, ladies and gentlemen.

And this is what it is.

Deal with it or don't deal with it or get let it get dealt with pretty much.

So what, how so you jumped into Oracle?

When was that?

I want to say, like, not too long after I stepped away from the church.

Maybe like a few weeks.

So few weeks to a couple, to maybe a couple of months because I was like in limbo first, it was hard for me to step away from church.

Wow, that's.

That's very interesting.

Wait, so, so wait, so you did the kind of.

Did like a whole cold turkey type thing.

Just, just one day you just like.

Oh, was you dabbling?

Studying a little bit.

And then

my whole transformation from church to being, you know, walking in spirituality, it came from me just doing research on our history.

Once I was able to figure out that so much of what we were taught was a lie, I toyed probably like a good year with breaking away from Jesus because that was all I'd ever known.

So I felt really guilty just leaving.

You know what I mean?

So I toyed with it back and forth, and then once I finally got there, I was like, okay, I'm just done with it.

Wow.

Wow, that's amazing.

Wait.

Well, I know, Claudia, you may not really know, but that process is not an easy process.

And, and it's kind of.

Yeah, I remember we, we kind of spoke about it with the episode with Rhys and, and your friend Marcus, you know, about the whole, you know, Christianity and like, some people get very Very attached to church and whatnot.

But.

But I'm saying, wow, it's.

It's amazing how she just described that, because that had to have happened during our Jupiter return where she kind of came to like this.

Like, it was almost like something must have fallen apart, an illusion must have fallen apart for her.

For her to kind of be like, okay, that's

did.

Well, it's.

Information will do that to you and kind of knock you in the head a little bit.

Absolutely.

But.

But yeah, it's kind of.

It's kind of like going through a sickness.

Yes.

And trying to recover.

I mean, the process.

And it's actually a lonely process as well.

Yes.

I don't know how.

Was that your experience being alone in the process?

Yes.

Yes.

Because you really couldn't just tell, you know, people, your family or, you know, your closest friends in that moment.

Because you sound crazy.

You sound crazy.

Like something wrong with her.

And I just had to sit with myself and just pay attention to what I had researched and.

And what I saw and.

And all the research.

I just was like, we're not supposed to be.

This is not what we're supposed to be doing.

And you just mentioned your family.

How did they take you?

You're walking into this journey.

Well, my mom.

By that time, my mama had passed away, so I didn't really have to worry about her.

My daddy, he didn't like it.

He.

He didn't like it.

He.

He had very rough response to that, but he knows to.

To the tarot or you walking away to tarot.

And he looks at it.

He looks at it as.

Oh, wow.

That was actually one of my questions.

And it was.

And I counteracted that question, actually.

He was like, paul, you really.

I was like, paul, don't.

Yeah, I said, of course I'm gonna ask that question.

And now you see why.

Okay, I get it now.

I get it now.

Yeah.

Why does he think it's evil?

He looks at it as demonic, as it being, you know, Satan fueled.

And, you know, I'm using Satan aspects to do tarot, and anything that's not Jesus fueled is just evil.

I'm just, like, not like that.

But I.

But that is actually a conversation and a boundary I had to draw with my daddy.

We don't speak on what I do anymore because it makes me upset if he tries to pull me back in or say what I'm doing is demonic or how I'm raising my children.

So we don't speak on what I do anymore.

So if it's not evil.

What is it?

I don't.

I don't feel it.

It's evil.

I feel that it is a way to divine.

It's a tool.

It's a tool.

It's a divination tool.

Exactly.

It's a way to answers that we normally wouldn't get.

Absolutely.

And I feel like the answers that we get come from spirit, come from God, come from, you know, whatever your version of the One is.

Okay.

Everybody's is different.