Like, you all need to really think about how you sound.

This is very important and it's often working at a subconscious level, meaning you're not really thinking about it and people aren't really thinking about it, but it's affecting them.

Because hearing is our most visceral sense.

Right.

It's the very first sense that we develop in the womb before we even see.

So as humanity, we have a profound, really deep relationship with.

With sound.

True.

Going back to thousands of years, millions of years, with cavemen and cave women, you know, sitting around a fire.

By the time they.

They see danger, it's too late, there's someone's dinner, but they can hear danger, fight or flight.

They can do something about it.

Right.

Or, you know, historians say that when cave people started communicating and forming languages, it was done through music and melody.

And that's because music is emotional and emotions are where memories are encoded and formed.

And that's why we still teach our kids the ABCs, not by reading them, but by singing them.

Right.

And like Twinkle Star, Baba, Black Sheep and ABCs are.

They're the same song.

So the verbiage might change, but like the melody is.

The exact notation is the same.

So leading into all of this, I was just going to the brands and saying, look, like this is actually nothing new that I'm saying.

It's just as an industry, for some reason, you are overlooking something that other industries like Hollywood really understand.

Like, you know, look at Jaws or James, James Bond or Disney films.

They treat their audio and visual creative as 5050 equals.

That's true.

Whereby advertising was treating it as like 9010 at best.

So I was really just saying, look, there is a really big opportunity here and it's nothing new.

This is leaning into here.

Human truths.

Yeah, true.

That are as old as time.

Right.

And, and bringing them up to speed.

And also the nature by which we consume information today is very different than when the advertising industry in the traditional sense was really founded.

Talking about, you know, back in the day with David Ogilvy and, And all these JWT kind of forming back then in the 50s, 60s, think about it, people would sit around a television set as a family and.

And like in a binary way, consume that information.

Right, right.

JFK would be speaking.

Yes.

You'd all be watching.

They'd go to commercials and then like the Wheaties jingle or the co commercial or whatever would come on.

Yeah.

And that's how you consume the information today.

Very true.

Not only are we watching TV, we're on Twitter, we're on IG, there's LinkedIn.

There's like such a fragmented in, you know, ecosystem of how we consume information.

It's not binary by any means.

Yeah.

And so what used to work back then, and their approach and treatment to jingles or music back then doesn't apply today.

And today it's like, if you're gonna spend millions of dollars in strategy and creative and production and a media buy to air a TV spot.

Right.

But everyone's eyes are on their phone when it airs.

Like, how do you peel people's eyes off their second screen and them to the one that you've planned for, invested in, and bought airtime for?

Right.

So those are the questions that I started really asking these brands, their advertising agencies, their marketing, communication agencies of record.

And that's really how it began.

It just.

It seemed so obvious to me, especially having gone through what I had gone through as a dj, because, you know, all these brands want to form emotional connections with human beings so that they're top of mind and they can cut through to their heart and mind and ideally get them to part ways with their dollars.

Yes.

And, you know, what I was doing as a DJ was not very different.

I was literally puppeteering the energy in these rooms, in these spaces to influence human psychology, physiology, physical behavior.

Right.

And I thought, why aren't brands thinking about using a universal truth like music and sound.

Yeah.

To puppeteer the energy off these people.

They want to, you know, connect with, build affinity and salience with and all these fancy terms that marketers use.

Yeah.

It just was very clear in my mind.

So that's when I started really just saying, you know what?

This needs to be addressed.

It needs to be fixed.

Let me.

Let me hone in on this space and give it my best.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's amazing, man.

That.

That's really cool.

And then, like I said, the transition just kind of seemed.

I mean, in your.

In you telling the story, the transition kind of just seems natural for you to then get into your work with Song Trader.

I have a couple of questions about that.

Sure.

First, when was it founded?

Song Trader?

I believe it was founded in 2014.

Okay.

So I joined.

I've joined Massive Music, which is one off Song Trader subsidiaries, a Song Trader.

Like I mentioned, we bought a lot of companies because we have this thesis that there is a picture that should exist that doesn't exist.

And we're gonna get all of the pieces off this picture together so we can start building it.

And we're well on our way.

But one of the Things that we acquired was a best in class creative services music agency called Massive Music.

Right.

So I originally joined Massive September of last year after having run my own consultancy in Toronto.

Have a few other music related ventures that I had built.

And yeah, it was just natural fit.

You know, we kept Massive and I kept bumping heads.

Okay.

We were competitors and we just had a series of conversations and it just made sense to go down this path together.

So I joined Massive and then about three, four months into being at Massive, you know, I started digging a little bit deeper into our parent company.

Being Song Trader got you and, and working with a leadership team there to help sort of iterate and build and figure out our go to market strategy.

So yeah, yeah, it's been a really, it's been a really like natural journey.

Yeah.

And you know, to, to many, in many ways I still feel like I am DJing today, but now it's at scale.

I'm not stuck in a, in one booth, in one city at one time.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, the notion of using sound and music to make someone's day better when they're checking into a hotel, when they're eating a meal, when they're grabbing a coffee, all of those instances to when, like I said, when they're using an app to send or receive money or whatever it might be.

Yeah, this, this is now like an invisible hand where we're controlling their sonic experience in all of these moments of their day.

Right?

Yeah.

When they're interacting with technology, consuming information, you know, all of these things going to an event.

Right.

And they're not necessarily thinking about these things blatantly.

Right.

But we, we are quite literally like guiding all of that from a sonic perspective.

And so now it's, you know, it's DJing at scale.

It's the same sentiment.

I like that.

But shaping, shaping the narrative on a global level really.

Music is powerful.