Now there's going to be a lot of jobs and how you,

prompt and direct and oversee AI.

So yes, you may.

The job skills may shift.

The job titles may shift.

but it's going to, hopefully create a more thoughtful and

creative, a more thoughtful job

Hello everyone.

Welcome to seek go create.

This is your host, Tim winders.

I'm an executive coach and I just.

Have fun getting to ask the questions.

Today's no different.

this is the place here at Seek Go Create.

This is where we challenge conventional definitions of success, explore

stories of transformation in leadership, business, and in ministry.

You're going to go heavy in leadership and business today.

In today's episode, I've got.

Privilege of talking to Brandon Cobb.

He's a marketing and profit driving executive with a track

record of pioneering, courageous marketing strategies for some

really cool, iconic brands.

He's got to focus on innovation, customer engagement, and team leadership.

He's played an integral role in turning companies around, fostering growth

and strengthening brand loyalty.

Brandon, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Thank you, Tim.

Thank you for having me.

Excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited that you're here to we were chit chatting briefly

trying to get internet going and all just a minute ago and I think we got it.

So let's dive in my question.

First question icebreaker.

We just bump into each other.

Not entirely untrue.

And I just like to know more about you.

And I say, what do you do?

What's your answer?

When someone says, what do you do?

I like to say I help companies that are providing a value

to the world continue to profit and grow so they can continue to add, value

to the world and scale that value.

so You know, I'm not talking about just things that are so much, how

people would think of like a charity or something like that, but it could

be, if it's a product or service that's providing an efficiency, a convenience.

It could be a good thing, a positive thing for the world as well, but anything

that, that really is adding value to the world, I like to help them, continue to

improve so they can keep scaling that.

And sometimes it's hard to gauge, value sometimes

is in the eye of the beholder.

we've got a lot of ministry folks and, church things.

and then some people think that some products have value.

Some don't, I don't.

I'm going to get into that because I think the world has a lot of opportunity there.

Did I see somewhere, have you done anything with MTV?

I did, yeah.

when I first went to, to undergraduate and everything, I wanted to go do film and I

ended up, doing marketing and producing films and doing marketing in the film

industry for, A handful of years, but, one of my first, things was with MTV and

their on air promotions in New York City.

So right there in Times Square, anybody that may remember back in the

90s or where there was like the TRL, studio, we were right there and where

they used to do those top 10 videos.

And, yeah, right there in Times Square, it was really great.

We were creating a lot of commercials, promoting all their shows.

I think I'm a little older than that.

I actually remember when MTV still did videos, before I

started doing all the other stuff.

I remember when MTV hit the air.

That's how old I am.

So you were there when they were starting to make some changes.

Yeah, and I can say, most of the people, like, when I was

there as one of the younger people and most of the people that were there

were actually, that was their biggest statement was that they were just, upset

that, that was the direction it was going and they wanted the videos back

and, yeah, but anyway, nevertheless, it was a very cool gig and, fun times,

Yeah, good.

so what is the coolest gig you've had?

we, you mentioned some brands and I look through your, your profile and some of

the stuff and I know they all are cool in their own right, but what's the one that's

you know what, this was a really good gig.

So if you step outside of, just like movie making, cause

that's a whole world on its own, then I would say there was a company

I was with in, in Los Angeles, that was called not impossible labs.

And they basically would try to take somebody.

try to take a medical situation that currently had no solution and come

up with a hack, a cheap and easy hack to solve that medical problem.

and for example, there was a graffiti artist, really great artist that, became

paralyzed and they created a pair of glasses that had a camera on it for about

15 you could make it and he could maneuver a computer through the just moving his eye

and it would track his eye movement and it would spray paint out where he so he could

now draw with his eye or that same company we created like a deaf music experience.

So we partnered with Beats by Dre and there was a vibration, whole vibration

system on people who were deaf and they could experience the music or 3D printing

prosthetic arms for again, like 15.

and the Sudan and Africa, they were having a civil war and we were printing

arms for 15 instead of 15, 000.

So it was like cheap and easy hacks.

And it was pretty cool.

and it, and.

Incorporated a lot of marketing and media partnering with big brands

to do their kind of showing that they're doing good in the world.

They're using their technology and their resources to give back to the world.

I love the thought of that.

I'm sitting here going, wow, that's almost like in this category of like,

where the make a wish foundation, where they're just trying to make things happen.

And I, the reason I really love that is that they're, you're looking for

solutions that are maybe less expensive, not, high dollar where, you know, and I.

I think the term hack is a good one there.

So what's, what's maybe the weirdest one you've ever run across?

It's this is a weird thing.

And especially going back to what you said, you do, you help people

that bring value to the world.

and I don't want you to, I'm not trying to call out any like former clients or

things, but I'm always interested to see things like, this is unique value

that they're bringing to the world.

I'd like to maybe hit on something more recently.

So I've been, providing, Fractional services for the last year and a half to a

variety of companies and, so a lot of kind of early stage startups or people, maybe

companies that are existing, but they're they want to bring a new product market.

And, there was with all the talk of AI and everything.

There's a company called Bolster Rue, that is Mixing the, traditional content

management systems of marketing.

the buffer, the HootSuites, the pre scheduling out of

your content on social media.

So they're mixing, that, that pre scheduling out with AI

generative, content creation.

I helped them, I had, experience in real estate.

So I connected them with a couple of clients and the real estate industry.

And they really targeted their product that how do you write a property

descriptions or how do you write, general real estate informational posts.

And then it creates the, it's not just the text, it's the image.

and then there's still a human interaction.

So the human reviews the content.

But then hit schedule.

But it basically you just plug in that.

Hey, I want all the next week a content for next week.

It pumps it out.

You approve it, and it's now scheduled.

So I think this is it's that cutting edge of using AI and trying to provide

a new value to the world that maybe didn't exist a couple years ago.

that's fascinating.

That actually gives me a line of questioning.

I'd love to drill down on.

I actually thought of this is the impact that AI is having on, we'll

just call it the marketing industry because obviously it's the buzz now,

a lot of people are talking about it, which is cool and I think it should be,

just with this project, the podcast, we have, I can't tell you how many

AI tools that we're using going all the way from the editing process to

Even you'll get a kick out of this.

One of the things I don't know if I should say this or not, this

could be like, I'll say it anyway.

One of the things I do before I sit down with someone like you that we haven't

met, we've interacted some, you reached out to our people and we scheduled this,

is I'll take, A list of things on your LinkedIn, or, what you say you do a

resume or one page or something like that.

I'll pop it in the AI tool, either chat GPT or cloud or something like that.

I said, Hey, write a short little blurb.

In fact, the blurb I said at the beginning, sorta came from.

And then I say, give me 10 cool and interesting questions to ask this person.

Now, I want to say, I rarely get to those questions, but it is interesting to see.

So I think it's touching a lot of industries.

What's it doing to the world of marketing?

What is AI doing there?

Y'all think you gave an example with this company, but just either

general or specific, whatever, wherever you'd like to go with it.

I think out of any industry or any, department within companies or.

Any industry, I think marketing could be one of the biggest beneficiaries

of AI just because of the generative portion of creating content.

I think if you think of a customer profile or persona, you could Talk with

it and say who you're trying to target.

Hey, create this persona and then you can start to create a community

continue to communicate with the AI to create ads targeted at that persona.

So now, it's still The human is still the pilot, and this is the co pilot, but it's

the, you're still giving instructions, and it's just probably hyper speeding up,

the process, maybe eliminating, the need for some of the, the specialist positions,

but being a marketing generalist, you can still shape it and direct it.

I talked to the CMO of eBay and they are using it to on display ads that

show up, all across the web and follow you around and things, to make a more

personalized, customized experience.

Generally, you would have a graphic designer or somebody create those display

ads and now the exact same ad may have 10, 000 variations, for example, and a I

may have created those 10, 000 variations.

So you may have had a graphic designer create the initial

one or something like that.

But then you want a bunch of variations.

And then now how do you place on where it's really, and it might be

just the slightest tweak, but that slightest tweak may, connect with

somebody a little differently depending on, what their activity is online.

I, that is not fully, nobody's just letting it run, on wild on its own yet.

It's still got that human interaction.

So there's a time lag.

It's not Oh, I click on this website.

Now I have this custom, custom image.

It's still going through a human, checks and balances process.

But, but I figure at some day, there's going to be where

the ads will change for you.

They're not pre created, but they will for you.

based on the pathways you're going down and eventually companies

will just let this run free.

So

I actually see this is the way I describe a lot of technology

like this is that It's really cool.

And then it's a little creepy at the same time There's kind of these things

what you just brought up I absolutely can see that because if we just go backwards

in time we see some things now that are on full auto with Anyway, I can't think

examples, but there's a lot of things that are on auto that we thought we always

need a human What about this is Kind of the thing that's bothering people now.

This doesn't bother me as much, but what about jobs in the marketing field?

I also noticed, I think you do some, I think you're a professor, you do some

teaching and all for, some schools.

what about the future of work and jobs in the marketing arena?

What jobs are going to go away?

What's in jeopardy.

And then what are some of the opportunities?

Maybe that's a way to ask it.

first I'll say I've always been taught through the MBA that I did.

And now I'm also in addition to working.

I've started a doctorate.

it's made for working.

Professional.

So through all the business education I've done, I've always been taught, don't

be afraid of, this was back in the day, like outsourcing because outsourcing will

create a new job, a better job, or don't be afraid of now technology replacing.

And if you go back to okay, email came about what replaced a lot

of, traditional male, snail mail, possibly jobs or something, or, you

go back to alarm clock replaced.

window bangers in the morning of, waking people up.

So these, so yes, jobs are going to be replaced, but new

jobs are going to be created.

Now, email comes about, okay, maybe there's not traditional male jobs, but

there's a ton of jobs in the email space.

and now, same thing.

So now there's going to be a lot of jobs and how you, prompt

and direct and oversee AI.

So yes, you may.

The job skills may shift.

The job titles may shift.

but it's going to, hopefully create a more thoughtful and creative,

a more thoughtful job, maybe.

but I think the specific jobs that will go away are, graphic

designers are in somewhat danger.

The copywriters are in somewhat danger.

you see it in, in L.

A.

right now with the, just in Hollywood that the actors are afraid of, voiceover,

I can still tell always when it's an A.

I.

voice, but, I think humans are going to get better and

better at detecting what's A.

I.

generated, but A.

I.

is going to get better and better at, Creating content that is more human light.

so yeah, I think actors, I think there's certain elements

of things that are in danger.

But, but at the same time, it's going to open up a whole

new world of possibilities.

You just got to be looking at what, shaping what's below it.

So yeah, I think there's you may have to adjust your scope set.

but I think in overall, it's a great

a disclaimer here.

I want everyone to know that I'm an actual person and talking and asking

questions and Brandon is an actual person.

Sometimes we, I do think we're coming to that stage where we're going to have to

probably do that because someone brought up recently, they say, you know, with all

the audio that's out there with you and guests and things like that, 220 something

episodes now here at Seek Go Create, it's going to be very easy to train.

Yeah.

For your voice.

I'm going this voice, Georgia boy who's tried to get rid of, Southern accent.

I go, yeah, it'll probably be pretty, pretty easy.

and so that's, I think that's going to be fascinating.

And I do agree with you, for me, It's always been, like the first time I stepped

in and I'm not exactly would be considered like, Gen Z or, even these generations, in

fact, I'm the tail end of the baby boomer generation, but when I see tech, I usually

watch briefly and then I jump on board.

And so I started doing things with AI and.

And I just perceive it as a writing assistant and a brainstorm partner,

for the things that I'm doing.

And I guess related to that, there's something that's related to marketing

that I do want to bring up and then we'll move on some other things off of AI, but.

I have wondered because of the capacity of social media and all

the channels that are out there.

I have wondered because it is so easy.

We notice it just with what we're doing here, this project here, that

it is so easy to create content.

Is it good content?

Is it great content?

Is it mediocre content?

I'm not sure.

I could judge it some.

With my eye, but then some, i'm letting the audience judge that are we going to

see a massive influx of just More stuff out there and I know that will impact the

marketing arena because we're really vying for people's attention In my opinion.

And so what are your thoughts on that?

Because I know just for me in the last six months, I've created more content.

I've considered writing a few more books.

I wrote a wrote one that took me five years.

Now I'm thinking, gosh, I might could do five a year instead

of it taking five years.

what are your thoughts just on the ability to just crank it out?

I think, probably, there will be more content.

Yeah.

I think that we may also get better at, Summarizing or getting through

content faster, just the same way.

And unlike listening to videos, you listen to them at 1.

5 speed or two point, 2.

0 speed.

or you can take content now and put it into the chat GPT

and have it sum it up for you.

So I think, yeah, there's going to be, there's going to be more out there.

and I think from a marketing perspective, like you said,

grabbing attention, creating.

you don't want to, you don't want to take a concept or idea that people

are believing and completely just say, Oh, that's garbage or that's all false

and stuff, because a lot of people would just be like, that's absurd.

But you can take a lot of what's going out there and try to be, say something

about what's going on is wrong.

so it's just a slight shift and so if that's the attention grabbing,

information and the attention grabbing content will be the things that don't

fully wipe out a person's belief, but shocks them a little bit and redirects.

so if you're taking, so I guess this is this goes into another So

This is one strategy of how you grab attention, but there's a lot

of ways you can grab attention.

I mean, you know, back there were social media posts where certain

colors would stop the scroll.

but, but yeah, I think you just got to find a way that kind of, as

people are going through a ton of, content passively, it grabs their

attention and makes them conscious.

And that's what you need to, do with your marketing.

I want to circle back maybe towards the tail end as we're

wrapping up and talk about some strategies and things for some of

the business owners and leaders of organizations that are listening.

And I think you've got a lot of value there.

But I want to, I, one of the things that I love to do here.

Is find out how people came into whatever they're doing and you know Some of

the highs the lows the you know, some even the good the bad and the ugly.

I think that's a valuable story Have you always been?

marketing guy Like this kind of a joke on the playground in elementary

school or wherever you went to school, where you like, man, I'm

going to do marketing someday, or is that something you've moved into?

So however you want to share your background or story, that's really me

saying, how did Brandon come to be, an expert in the area of marketing

and how far back does that go?

I think there's a lot of things that play up to where I'm at now.

And, when you talk about going back to the playground, I remember friends

telling me like, Oh, I love to tell a story or something like that.

And and then.

I fell in love with video creation and creative, the creative space of it.

but video content specifically.

And that's where, I pursued some stuff in the film industry,

but it was also very tough.

And I, I understood the business side of things.

I wasn't just, I'm split minded and not just like, All business or all

creative on the little bit of both.

And with that marketing kind of naturally fell into place.

I was always good with math and numbers, which I think now with

marketing, data and analytics are becoming more and more important.

I took Martin jobs when originally trying to pursue some stuff in the film industry,

just to get by and that built a skill set that then helped in the film industry,

but also now has provided a whole career that is generalizable across industries.

And that's the way I really look at marketing is that some

of the skill sets like yeah there's nuances in each industry.

but.

A lot of the marketing skill sets can cross over industries, or you can

bring a fresh perspective, because a lot of times in a certain industry,

people get stuck in certain ways of, of everybody mimicking, other organizations

or companies in that same industry.

And if you come from an outside perspective, you can bring some of the

marketing principles and cross it over.

So I would just say that, yeah, my, from storytelling, from being creative, from

being, mathematical and business minded still, it just was like a good overall fit

that, that, you know, where I fit in well,

Or at what point, and I don't know if you can think of an example

or if it was just a process, at what point was there a time where you looked

in the mirror or you had a situation, client, whatever, where you went,

huh, I'm actually pretty good at this.

This is something that I'm pretty good at in the marketing arena.

Can you think of an example?

That's a little bit of a tough question.

Hopefully I didn't get you thinking about that.

That's,

there, there's been several times, that this has clicked, I, I was,

at an organization in Columbus, Ohio that had 500, retail locations across the U.

S., and I was in their field marketing, throwing a bunch of events, and, I,

we got, mayors of cities to come out for grand opening ribbon cuttings,

and, and then we got it put on the front page of the local newspapers.

I remember the CEO of that company coming up to me and telling me,

Brandon, you're on, you're on the fast track or something like this.

And that was, and then I was awarded like their corporate employee of the month, and

it was a couple thousand person, company.

So like that, those reaffirmations are like, are there.

And then I would say, being in LA and being able to market, to, to where we

can generate opportunities successfully.

both on the creation, being able to fundraise and create projects, but

then also distribute them and return the investments and everything.

I think that was it.

in the real estate industry, I had, a lot of reaffirmations too.

I think, it's a lot of times the CEO is coming up to me and reaffirming that, that

they believe in me or they're behind me.

the CEO of a real estate company I was with, they, he put me as their keynote

speaker at a, leadership conference.

And, after I spoke, he came up just to close out the conference and he, he told

me, I'm fully behind you and everything.

So I think those are the reaffirmations.

I'll say though, at the same point, There's a lot of times

where there's doubt, too.

because,

that's what I was about to ask.

I was about to ask, okay, so when have been the times that you

went, because redefining success is like our main theme here.

When has it been tough and you've gone, oh boy.

So that's really what I like to dig at.

and it brings me full circle because the thing is, there's

been other times where, I don't I know.

So I don't know.

It can never be 100% sure.

But I'm confident that what I'm Saying proposing is correct and in the best

interest of the company, the best, but I don't, I cannot convince a

CEO or CFO to, believe in me or get the green light to go do something.

and it brings me to why I'm in the DBA now, it brings me why I went and

did an MBA, which was, I hit a wall at some point, I'm like, I need more

knowledge, more skills to be able to.

This and so for what I'm currently experiencing is that, when you get

asked to put together a marketing campaign, a lot of that mix of channels

and how you're going to do the spend.

But what the whole approach of everything on the marketing campaign, a lot of times

that comes from the marketers intuition.

You can't necessarily, say this is for sure going to.

Create this result.

You are proposing it because you think it's going to achieve the goals.

But, and the only way you can go out and get that done is if you get the trust

and the belief from a CEO or CFO, whoever is writing off on that green light.

And but if I get the green light, I feel like it does tend to work.

But, so now I'm working on how do you present more, really good

projections and data to back up why we should do what suggesting to do.

And, but when you hear that from a CEO or CFO, that, that they just think

what you're saying is may not work.

At all be correct.

It really questions yourself like, am I correct on this or am I not correct?

A lot of times I'll go weeks thinking and thinking about it and I'll come back and

I'm like, I still stand by that statement and it's for their best interest,

but it's, but, I guess that's where it's at is who actually knows better?

I think the real result is, or the real answer is that there's

no one way to do everything.

there's a hundred ways to get to the same goal and you just have to figure out ways

to align and work together and stuff.

I think one of the struggles there, because I deal with

it, I work as an executive coach and I'm in on some of these conversations

where we're discussing marketing.

I don't consider myself a marketing expert or anything, but I work with

leaderships and leadership teams.

And I think a lot of it comes down to, we want to know, and this

is So many things in business.

This is why your math skill, is beneficial.

We want to know if we spend X that we're going to get 4X, 10X,

hopefully more ROI return on it.

And sometimes this is where I'm going back to that confidence level.

Sometimes, but sometimes there's variables.

I just sat in early this morning on a meeting.

This is a vacation resort area that I'm at, and they were cooking through

all COVID and all that kind of stuff.

And their numbers are off and they were talking about sales and

their sales are way, way down.

Sales are way down in a lot of areas right now.

It's a weird time.

We're in a little while I'm probably gonna ask you about your views on some

big picture things, but How do you?

I guess this is an roi question.

How do you really?

Attach roi to marketing.

How do you overcome?

when someone Question.

there's so many ways of going here.

Cause it's really an ROI question to me, and like you said, there's

quite a credibility that's involved.

Can you deliver on this?

Is this really going to return us or are we just going to spend money?

And a lot of people think about marketing, especially social media, it's man,

we're just going to flush it down the toilet, never to see it and all that.

So what, when someone brings up ROI, what are some things that

come to your mind and just have whatever your thoughts are on that?

I'm working on it now.

That's my whole doctorate project that I'm working on, but, is

attribution and proving that ROI.

But with that being said, I think marketers are very good at a first

touch point attribution and the last touch point attribution.

We're not very good at a multi touch point attribution.

crediting everything to the first ad or the first capture of information,

even though there may be many months later of continuing, to continue to

persuade until a purchase is made.

or giving all the credit to the last touchpoint.

So the actual, point, the actual touch that pushes them over the edge

and makes them buy, but we're not able to properly wait and understand

everything that happens in the middle.

so I think we need to get better with that.

Going back to ai, I think AI can help with some of that.

some of their calculations and algorithms and things like that, but with that

being said, I think, that it is very interesting because I've literally had

campaigns or departments and different things that are Profitable returning,

and I'm still being asked that question of like understanding, though, is okay.

It is profitable and it's profitable by this percentage.

But, but what's causing the profit?

Where can we cut or where can we increase and really try to optimize

and make that as efficient as possible.

And so I've had where All right.

Even if the big picture is working, you still have to explain inside

that black box of what's going on inside the inner workings and why?

And yeah, I think it's something that the marketing industry is not good

with a digital wise where it's much easier to attribute and give credit

and track, when it's not digital, it becomes a lot more difficult.

But yeah, this is what I'm working on.

Literally, I'm going to do a thing where you've got it could be 20

variables or any number of variables.

But to make it easy, let's say you have three variables.

You have a TV ad, a radio ad and a social media ad.

What's the total revenue?

You take out the radio ad?

What's the total revenue?

You put the radio ad back in?

What's the total revenue?

And then if you just look at the radio ad by itself, what's the total revenue.

So basically what that's going to tell you is how does the mix or if you're

cooking with a recipe and a mix of ingredients, what does that, that radio

ad do, that makes it greater as a whole than just that ad itself individually,

which is the integrated concept.

Everybody understands it, but you still can't explain it.

It's something that the mark, this is where the marketing industry is going.

You have, we're going to have to get better because people want to know that.

The interesting thing about that.

I just had a flashback.

I just, I had to go to Atlanta, my old hometown, and I was stuck in traffic,

which if you're in Atlanta, there's a good chance you're stuck in traffic.

And I was driving South and there was this, there's this big smokestack right

in downtown Atlanta that they've got a very visible digital bill billboard there.

And I know the company that does it, Corey outdoor advertising, cause I worked there.

40 years ago in high school when we were first starting the billboard

business, but it is a massive digital billboard that they were

advertising Miller beer, I think.

And of course you can make the change and all that.

And I'm sitting there in traffic looking at it going, First of

all, how much does it cost?

I know it's a very expensive because it is a very prominent display right around

the Grady curve of the connector in downtown Atlanta, but then I'm wondering

what is the value to Miller, the beer, and I've seen other advertisements

there and like you said, it's very difficult to say, which leads to really

what you were just talking about, and I don't know if there's a real answer

for this and maybe it's a guess, but.

How much of what you do, would you put it in the area of science?

I'll we'll call it in the general science.

And then how much is it just Touch feel art, is there a percentage breakdown?

I know you mentioned you're good at math, your storyteller,

all that kind of, and creative.

I think a lot of people like to get super creative with marketing, but

they need more math and science.

And then some people are all about testing this, that I lean more towards

testing, I'm not as creative, but what are your thoughts, where do you put it?

so I've always had a saying that you can't do marketing without data,

but data doesn't tell the whole story.

Revenue does.

you, what's the percentage?

I think You can analyze, you can put proof behind possibly

50% of marketing, but maybe not.

I think you'd be really happy if you could prove that this is.

but then there's going to be 50% that is the art side of things.

And I think it's just about trying to move that needle where we can prove

it a little bit more, like even on the art side, justifying why the art needs

to be the way the art is on certain elements, just a little bit more.

if you look at different industries, the stock market, if you could take out

all the variables and you could figure out that, based off these variables

that you can predict 10% of, you can understand 10% of how the stock market's

going to move, but 90% of it, you don't know, if you could make that 20%,

now you're very happy or something.

So it's in marketing, like there may be some industries where we know 90%.

And you just, they're just trying to get to that other, that last 10%.

In statistics, they call it the R kind of like R squared.

it's like telling specifically how much is explained by the different

variables you're considering.

And I think in marketing, we don't have anywhere close to the a hundred

percent picture, but we're able to, And that's the goal, is, yeah, trying to get

better, but art is certainly part of it.

And if you don't mind, I want, I wanted to say something more on, and

this goes back to art, but it's also back to the AI conversation, which

is humans have a natural Ability to touch other humans emotions.

we humans go through depression or anxiety or different things and they

have a certain way of being able to communicate verbally and non verbally

that is able to, hit different on a person, then, and that's the art.

And that's the human side that the AI can't do too.

And I think that's also going to be the difficult thing to duplicate.

And I think that's in the value that we humans need to be able

to bring to that, that formula.

Brandon, one of the things that I think you're probably in a unique

position to speak to is I don't know, maybe trends, what you're

seeing big picture that's going on.

Just, I don't want to know, I don't know if it's the economy

as a whole or something.

I'm noticing some interesting trends, where, you know, who you talk to

and who you believe, we're a year or so out of, global pandemic and,

a lot of people thought we were going to still really be growing.

I think.

I'm seeing some leveling off with some industries I'm interacting with and,

maybe just whatever you want to share about what your views are about some

things that are going on with the economy and the world or anything like that.

I'm just going to give you a shot here without a very specific question

because I think you see a lot of stuff.

So what are you seeing?

I see surprisingly, we've been talking about the recession coming

that hasn't, it's came, but it hasn't came like at the same time, we've had

inflation, you have it, maybe everybody.

Things are harder to afford in different ways or less spending power, but

like the spending hasn't stopped the business opportunities haven't stopped.

so that's a little surprising.

I think also in a good way, possibly I don't know, it's mixed

there, but mix that bad and good.

The less spending powers bad, but, the, I think there is a growing divide

of, there's going to continue to be a growing divide, unfortunately, of, of

wealth, of people who, and skills as well, and that's when we're talking

about all this change from, pre COVID, you were working more in office now.

People working virtually, you've got all these new technologies and everything

else, so it's I think those who adapt to the new world are going to do really

well, and those who don't adapt are, there, I think there's just going to

be a divide there, and I think it's also a divide where maybe the lower

side of things are more well taken care of than in the previous past.

things like clothes and, Material goods are probably going to continue

to become more and more affordable.

I think it's Elon Musk who said that eventually all

people can afford all things.

if you think about it, like when iPhone first came out, not

everybody could afford iPhone.

Now everybody can afford iPhone or maybe back in, I remember donating you.

Clothes or food and different things different people and of course, homeless

problems and everything else, but like Clothes have become more affordable most.

there's all the discount stores like people have a lot of things now so I

think the divide will be like you're well taken care of here, but If you're

doing well, you're doing really well.

and, I also, yeah, I don't know.

it's interesting.

I don't know exactly.

Obviously, I don't think anybody does where things are going.

But, I think it's a both a scary but a exciting time

and, you need to keep trying.

You need to keep learning and you need to keep, understanding that the

capitalism that we've always loved.

For us of being able to have mobility up and down and work hard

and achieve results, hopefully will continue to be there.

But, you need to but understand that if you're not giving a full

effort to readjust and relearn and continue to grow, then don't be

upset if you slide down on the scale.

So you need to keep working hard.

And I hopefully you can see the benefits of that.

I think the, all that was great info.

I think the thing I really loved the most is that people need to continue

growing and being open to new things.

And, at the age I'm at, I see so many of my peers.

That have stopped for some of them going on 20, 30 years, learning

new things and doing new things.

And, here, my wife and I are, experimenting with some new

business things related to using AI to increase some things.

So I think that's great, great advice.

And I liked the thought there because I do think things are changing and

we're not really going to know.

I love to think about what the future might look like.

But if we were having this conversation in 2015, we never would have projected what

happened over the next five or six years.

I don't, I wouldn't have, and I think I know this kind of stuff.

it's come on, but, Hey, I see that you work, obviously you probably,

I guess in the environment that you do your teaching in, is that mostly

young people that are just getting started in the marketing world?

I've partnered with a group called UpGrad.

It's a company out of India, like a Coursera.

So basically they have relationships with universities throughout the world

and they offer degree programs in partnership with those universities.

So I teach a marketing MBA class for Deakin University.

It's a top business school in Australia.

And then, there's a Liverpool business school in UK.

so I teach MBAs for, marketing classes for those two.

The majority of the students in them are somewhat younger.

and the majority of the students are Spread throughout the world, probably

in areas that were more traditionally, had less access to education.

so yeah, and there's, and it's not in the areas of where those universities are.

So I don't know if there's one student in Australia.

Who's doing the program with Deacon, and I don't know if there's one pro

student in UK that's doing the program with, with Liverpool Business School.

yeah, that's, I teach 'em on, I'm on Pacific Time, probably the

worst time since it, when you're doing a worldwide, schedule.

Probably the worst like time zone to be in.

Cause we're at the very tail end of things.

And, but I do it at 5 30 AM on some weekends there.

And it ends up being for the majority of the world, an okay time.

and so I don't know how much interaction you have, but I guess a

question I have related to that is someone who is, let's say newer to marketing

and going into it as a profession.

What is something, I don't know, it could be one or two things or

just a thought mindset, whatever.

What's something that they just.

Aren't quite getting that they need to get early on in their marketing career.

I know a lot of people that are listening in that probably are consider

themselves either in marketing or they need to know more about it.

What's something that people really miss when they're going into that field?

I think, obviously I think experience beats almost everything,

but the thing is that a lot of times experience can be too specific to that

job, to where like you just continue to do the repetitive task of that job.

And so I.

Really think you need to be and it doesn't have to be a formal

education program doesn't have to be degrees or anything like that.

But there's so much information online and I listen a lot of LinkedIn learning.

So just continuing to play different videos on different topics in

the background through your day.

or audio books and listen to them on hyperspeed and stuff.

You don't have to capture everything and fully understand everything.

Just try to, through repetition, you're going to start to just remember it like

you remember songs through repetition.

But, so I guess where I'm getting at is just because, and I found this

too, is you could be doing a really good job in your job, but then if you

go to another job, like the skills and the marketing that everything is.

It's different in some cases.

So you need to continue to just look at things in a, I like in a big picture.

and you need it because I said, experience beats almost everything

you need to learn by doing.

So just because you're doing stuff in your job doesn't mean you can't

be experimenting outside your job on little experiments of your own.

And however that may be.

that's some good info.

So the followup to that, we've got a lot of listeners that are leaders or heads

of their organization, business owners, some ministry leaders, things like that.

And, and marketing is always a topic that comes up around leadership teams.

Sometimes it's positive.

Sometimes it's not just like most topics, but what are some things and let me.

I guess let me ask it this way.

First, what are some things that most leaders of an organization miss

when it comes to marketing or they're thinking wrong about it or they

have a bad attitude or something?

What are some things there?

And then I've got a follow up related to that about what you do when you step

into an organization, maybe initially.

But first, let's go to that big picture.

what are people missing or messing up on related to, to marketing?

I think a lot of people think of marketing as just the

promotion of, products or services.

And, there's always been the, i many years, but a long time whether there's

been a concept or a model of that.

There's four Ps in marketing.

now some people have broke it down to seven Ps and different things,

but I teach the four Ps of marketing in those classes, which are.

Prop being involved with the product, both making sure there's a product

market fit, but also making, work, understanding what the consumers needs

are and making sure the product adjust to be the need to consumers needs.

So product price, understanding all the price elasticity of consumers, choosing

the right price, choosing the right, just overall strategy with price, and

then place where you're going to be.

for example, if you want to be a high end product.

Luxury product, then you're not going to go to Walmart, but if you

want to be selling high quantity, then maybe you go to Walmart.

or that goes the same way to Amazon.

Like you got to think of where you're being sold, what that

puts in the mind of consumers.

And so your place, and then finally there's the promotion and that's all

the ads and the, social media and all that, that, that kind of stuff.

So I think a lot of people just look at marketing as promotion and, and.

And they're too short minded with, when marketing starts and ends, a lot of

times, Oh, the products already made the price already chose in the place

already chosen, just go promote it.

And then also the don't do the sale of it because you're just

in this little piece here.

And really, I think marketing, starts at the very beginning and marketing really.

Truly never ends because even after the sale, you're trying to create

loyalty trying to create repurchases.

and so to me marketing Goes over the entire business, cycle or the entire

purchase buyer's journey there from start to finish and even after and so

I think you just need to expand your concept of or not anyone but it's

probably the biggest misconception is that not expanding the concept that

marketing is a much wider thing and really integrated in all aspects of the

business and including internal as well.

So internal mark, and retaining, employees and motivation of

employees and everything else.

So

had a thought that triggered that I had a client sometime

back that I consider this a mistake.

I'll let you be the judge of that, but they knew that they

needed to generate more business.

They had been primarily probably word of mouth referrals up to that

point and had done very well, but they decided that they needed to up

their leads and people coming in.

And so they're.

First engagement was with someone who specialized in social media

and very specifically Facebook ads.

I, they were very narrow and truthfully, it was not a good match.

I actually started working with the leadership team shortly after that.

I go, you know, I don't think that's where your audience is.

I don't, that's not the place or, where you need to be doing your promotion.

And they've backed off.

I think LinkedIn is a place, but I think people are very narrow and sometimes

their thoughts about marketing and my observations, maybe it's where I.

Come in and my seat at the table, but you obviously many times need to, as

you step into the organization or have a first interaction or you're brought in as

a fractional, C level or something like that need to evaluate those type things.

How do you do all that?

What's the best first start?

This is me getting into What a business owners need to be doing right now,

especially if they're maybe very narrow and they've had I hate the term.

They got burned.

We got burned.

Somebody sold us facebook ads, which I'd again That's a whole nother topic.

But anyway, what are some thoughts?

Does that make any sense?

And how do you respond when I bring that up?

I think it makes a lot of sense.

I, how you go in and examine a situation in the current infrastructure and the

current processes and systems, is going to relate to what I'm going to say,

how you do what I think the ideal, arrangement is, in my opinion, you need

to have a very good, marketing generalist.

General manager of marketing basically, of sorts.

And you need to try, to, I like to outsource a lot of things initially.

keep it pretty skeleton, of an outline there until.

A concepts proven and then start to bring it in house.

whether you're working with the cost, whether you're generating,

leads in a certain way, and then a call center is working on it.

We'll start with outsourcing to a call center and letting them work it.

And then if it starts to work, yeah, you are losing profit margin.

Paying the outsourcing, but it's a lower risk.

Then you start as each thing is proven.

You start to bring it in house more and more.

and start to outsource your graphic design outsource.

Your copyright.

But as it start as you start to see the value, then start to bring it in house

where you've hit past the break even point that you're doing it in enough

quantity that it's more efficient and more effective to bring it in house.

But I think that all starts with having that general person and marketing,

that's in house a very general, well rounded, marketer because they're

able to select And deploy the right, the right strategies at the right

time or work with the right people.

And if you have the right person, they probably have connections that

are throughout the, all your needs.

and I guess that kind of goes into how I've been coming into companies.

And is I come in and I figure out what they need right there.

And I'm bringing in the connections, making the connections, whether

they're in house out of the house, whatever they can choose through

time to bring them in house.

Keep them out of house, I think you need to be a lean and, you need to be

quick to understand that, the skill sets of one month may not be the same skill

sets you need of the next month, and your marketing and you need to be able

to adjust when you got that specialist, like you were talking of maybe the social

media person, but they were very specific.

there's not a lot of adjustment that can be made month to month

with that because they're just able to do what they do right there.

and they don't, some of them don't even speak the language

if it's a little bit of a complex, product or whatever that's being sold.

you mentioned something that I want you to give us a little more info on, and

I know that, the easy answer would be, you need to get someone like Brandon,

because you're the marketing generalist.

But I see a lot of leaders, a lot of people running organizations,

and it could be companies that are attempting to scale, they're moving

from a solopreneur to, or maybe a mom and pop to a little bit larger.

They're starting to get a team around them and they're wanting

to continue growing and scaling.

I believe that a lot of them don't know the questions to ask to know if they're

really dealing with the generalist or not.

It's like they're, they think that marketing is social media or

they think that, and some of them are really, they will tell you.

I just don't want to think about the marketing.

It's so confusing and I don't like social media and which lets you

know, some clues about them, but how can someone know if they're dealing

with a generalist or a specialist?

And I don't know if there's questions to ask.

I don't know if you could think of some things cause I would love for us to

have a few questions here that leader of the organization could say, you know

what, tell me more about this or what do you know about this so that I know

I'm dealing with more of a generalist.

I would as a business leader, not say, oh, I need this per, I

need a social media statement, or I need, I would talk to a marketer and ask them,

or te not ask them, tell them your goals.

What are you trying to achieve?

what do you need to happen?

And it may not be that you're describing like.

I need this and it's specifically not asking that I need this marketing thing

to generate this It's what do you need?

what are the final results?

What are you trying to achieve?

What are the real goals and then you're asking the marketer how

would you what strategies tactics?

different elements would you Employ deploy to in order to achieve this.

How would you get help get us there?

And what resources would you need to get there and see what their answer is?

Because I think that answer will tell you if they're A specialist or a generalist,

and also, it goes, that's the tough thing because it goes back to then

you, how do you know that's a for sure thing that what they're saying is going

to work out and do you put your trust in them or do you, but I think that's

the way I would approach it is really.

you're coming to a marketer because you need marketer, you need marketing help,

not because you're saying, how to, unless you have a deep experience in marketing,

not to say Hey, I need, I'm trying to deploy this tactic or this strategy to

achieve this, just your goal and trying to understand how they may get you there

because you may interview five different people and get five different views.

But that will also, even if you don't hire any of those five, give you a

better, Group of options of how to maybe what specialness you need to go

out and hire to make it happen too.

So

so this is going to be me countering the question I just asked.

I'm going to ask you, is there a platform, a placement or

something now that you really like?

I mean, you're not going to force all your clients into it, but it's like, boy, you,

you really like what's going on to get the word out about a product and all here.

And we know it's not for everybody.

This is not a saying this is where you go, but is there.

Placement that you're like going, this is a pretty good way to get a message

or a product out to the world right now.

So that is counter the question I just asked.

I want to totally say how ironic it is that I asked that after

asking the other question.

at the grandest scale, I think, which is obvious, but just

utilizing all that the internet has to offer because, where I was going

to go with this is that the answer is no, because it is audience specific,

very audience specific, we launched, wheelchair brand and we're looking

at TV ads, in traditional cable, but that's because of that audience of still

older audience still on traditional cable versus you've got, other people

on streaming or you've got, if you're going for a younger generation,

you go to tick tock or something like, it's not going to be the same.

it's just not, but if you, in the grand scheme of things, I would utilize that.

All that the internet has to offer because of its tracking abilities because of its

ROI proving abilities, even though it may not be technically the most efficient

synergy by just doing internet if you're just starting off with something you're

trying to grow, that's the way you can make sure that your dollars are returning.

But no, the answer is no.

I mean, if you're a local, if you're a local business, you

want to really get deep into your local community offline too.

And you want to be, and if you're a nationwide business, it's, it's too,

and I'm sorry to say that it's just, it's too, it would be impossible

to give one answer that meets.

All business, and that

I think you just helped me with the question that someone

should ask if they're looking for a generalist, because you gave

a good generalist answer that.

so those that were listening to the question earlier, looking for the

questions that might've been one, it's man, what's your favorite?

And you really did a good job of not giving me one saying it's

very specific to the situation.

Hey, Brandon, almost my final question here, looking out.

Short term future, longer term, whatever.

What are some things that are super exciting for you as far

as the marketing world goes?

And then what are some things that kind of bug you or are concerning you?

And then there's just a few things we'll do to wrap up here, but

just so big picture marketing, you really like the thought of blank.

And then something that's bothering you a little bit about the industry.

I really like the thought of, making, consumer experiences, more

enjoyable and the focus on the consumer's journey through and how to make eliminate

friction, how to make the experience more smooth and easy and fun and enjoyable.

And, and.

Which creates loyalty, creates referrals, creates reviews, there's a lot of things.

So I really like the concept of experience.

I was with a company that had a chief experience officer

that like, that was, the focus.

So I think, I think experiences is, very good.

And actually even going back when I said, I think Elon said, everybody

will be able to afford everything.

The only thing that would be different at some point would be, experiences or.

you, yeah, you're, the brand, you could say, behind it, but the experience or

the emotions and that kind of thing.

yeah, I think experience is exciting.

something I don't like with marketing is probably the herd mentality of sorts.

where, A lot of companies are feeling because another company does

something that they have to do it to or they're going to get left behind.

and there may be some truth to that.

And that may also be, it may be, in a way, as long as the movements are good

movements, good that everybody quickly But, I don't like, I, I was at a, at a

conference of a lot of like top, fortune 500 companies, CMOs and different things,

just listening into them and stuff.

And it was just very interesting that there was a lot of, it

was just a lot of whether they.

Believe or feel this is the right thing to do or the right direction

for their company They have to follow what others are following and

I just don't think that's The herd mentality in anything in life is good.

Yeah, there are a lot of people out there that are not

doing a lot of original things.

They're just copying other people and they're probably getting the

results to match up with that.

Maybe they're successful at it.

But anyway, great response there.

Brandon, I appreciate it.

Hey, listen, let's just say that someone wanted to connect with you, get some

more info, maybe bring you in as.

That marketing person, or just wanted to connect after they listen in on this.

Where do you want to send people?

you got any resources or anything that, people might can get a hold of?

And then I've got a final question I'll ask before we wrap up.

you can find me on linkedin brandon cobb d r a n d e n m c o b t

you can go to my website marketingexec.

us and I would encourage you to reach out on either of those There's an email

on the website, there's a, message me through LinkedIn, please connect.

And then also, just like being here on this podcast, I try to go on a

variety of podcasts, and I try to cover a wide range of topics that

don't make any two the exact same.

And so I would just say, go to YouTube, go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify,

wherever you listen to your podcasts, and maybe just search my name and

try to listen to some other podcasts.

And then if it looks like maybe there's a fit, or you want to, follow

up question on a specific topic.

send me a message.

I'd be happy to chat.

Very good.

Thanks for that, Brandon.

Hey, we're Seek, Go Create.

I'm gonna let you choose one of those words that resonates more, means more.

and why, which word do you choose?

I would say go.

because, a book when you had gave me the heads up.

You're going to ask this question at the end.

And I, I was thinking right away and I like all the words.

I like all the words, but, go is because, Got it.

A book that came right to mind when you, between those three words is there's

a Steve Harvey book, called Jump, and it's this called, it's basically the

concepts like you just take a jump and you're gonna, catch your parachute on

the way down, or you're gonna figure it out on the way, and, I think that,

trying to have everything correct or right before you fully jump or go,

is gonna prevent you from, A lot of experiencing a lot of things that you

would experience and figure out along.

So I think, just go.

Very good.

Yeah, I love that word go.

I love all three words, obviously, but I love that word go.

Thank you, Brandon, man I appreciate you joining us here I think we've

given some folks some great value just in the way they need to think about

marketing and maybe some action steps But I think definitely some concepts

that they need to think about share this episode with folks if you've listened

in I know, business owners, leaders of organizations, please share this episode.

That's a great way that people get exposed to new podcast and

get some great information.

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