1 00:00:00,070 --> 00:00:03,780 Okay, you have a general understanding of the Polyvagal Theory and all 2 00:00:03,780 --> 00:00:06,100 of the primary and mixed states. 3 00:00:06,750 --> 00:00:11,559 But, there's a lot of information out there and a lot of the Polyvagal Theory 4 00:00:11,870 --> 00:00:15,160 influencers are people who speak about mental health and trauma recovery. 5 00:00:15,719 --> 00:00:19,870 They mix up terminology or they don't seem to match from person to person 6 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:21,830 and so it's left you kind of confused. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:25,230 And it'd be nice to have a better understanding of how these autonomic 8 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:27,800 states present in the real world. 9 00:00:27,910 --> 00:00:32,030 So, in this episode, I'm going to do a quick Breakdown of all of the 10 00:00:32,030 --> 00:00:36,949 official polyvagal theory, autonomic states with the correct terminology. 11 00:00:37,379 --> 00:00:42,289 And then I'm going to share the story of Courtney and we will apply what 12 00:00:42,290 --> 00:00:43,880 we learned as far as the states go. 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 We're going to apply them to the story of Courtney. 14 00:00:47,639 --> 00:00:51,150 In this episode, you're going to get a clear understanding of the states. 15 00:00:51,605 --> 00:00:56,495 And you'll better be able to spot them in the story, but also for yourself as well. 16 00:00:56,675 --> 00:00:57,725 My name is Justin Sonseri. 17 00:00:58,195 --> 00:01:03,594 I am a therapist, a coach, and the creator of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System. 18 00:01:04,045 --> 00:01:07,455 I'm also on the Polyvagal Institute's editorial board. 19 00:01:07,504 --> 00:01:09,955 This stuff is kind of my life, the polyvagal theory. 20 00:01:10,255 --> 00:01:10,725 I love it. 21 00:01:10,744 --> 00:01:11,975 You could say I'm obsessed with it. 22 00:01:12,245 --> 00:01:16,255 I spend pretty much zero time taking in other sources of 23 00:01:16,304 --> 00:01:17,515 political theory information. 24 00:01:17,515 --> 00:01:20,975 I just look at the primary source, uh, which is Dr. 25 00:01:20,975 --> 00:01:24,935 Porges and his primary writings and then Deb Dana as well. 26 00:01:24,945 --> 00:01:28,714 Those are my two primary places to go, but mostly Dr. 27 00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:31,194 Porges, his books and the papers he writes. 28 00:01:31,285 --> 00:01:35,115 Welcome to Stuck Not Broken where I teach you how to live with more calm confidence 29 00:01:35,205 --> 00:01:36,934 and connection without psychobabble. 30 00:01:37,435 --> 00:01:38,295 or woo woo. 31 00:01:38,325 --> 00:01:42,905 This podcast is of course not therapy, nor is it intended to 32 00:01:42,905 --> 00:01:44,445 be a replacement for therapy. 33 00:01:44,445 --> 00:01:44,655 All right. 34 00:01:45,110 --> 00:01:46,270 Intro is done. 35 00:01:46,740 --> 00:01:52,430 Let's first briefly, ever so briefly, go over the polyvagal theory states, the 36 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,390 states of the autonomic nervous system. 37 00:01:54,970 --> 00:01:59,360 The basic idea here is that the body can be prepared for 38 00:01:59,789 --> 00:02:01,560 more safety or more defense. 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,550 Just to put it super simply, the body can have different state states in 40 00:02:05,550 --> 00:02:10,460 preparation for various levels of connection or responding to danger 41 00:02:10,460 --> 00:02:12,540 or even responding to life threat. 42 00:02:12,730 --> 00:02:13,400 So we have three. 43 00:02:14,209 --> 00:02:19,280 Primary, uh, states, those three primary states are Safety, 44 00:02:19,650 --> 00:02:21,620 Flight Fight, and Shutdown. 45 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:25,280 Safety is a state where your body is prepared to connect. 46 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:30,030 To connect with the self, with the environments, or with somebody else. 47 00:02:30,039 --> 00:02:31,410 That's the basic idea. 48 00:02:31,950 --> 00:02:34,510 The Flight Fight state is the, uh, second one. 49 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,559 It's the sympathetic state. 50 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:39,710 And in that state, your body is prepared to run away or fight, basically. 51 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:43,880 But it's, uh, also we can just call it the mobilization state. 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,470 Because you're not always running away or fighting when you're in the state. 53 00:02:46,790 --> 00:02:49,010 But basically it's for mobilization. 54 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:54,040 And the third primary state is the shutdown state, and 55 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,207 this is for immobilization. 56 00:02:56,207 --> 00:03:00,499 In danger, though, it's for immobilizing when there's like a 57 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:04,840 life threat, when the body needs to collapse and, uh, death vein. 58 00:03:05,209 --> 00:03:07,119 So those are the three primary states. 59 00:03:07,119 --> 00:03:08,980 So think of this like primary colors. 60 00:03:08,980 --> 00:03:10,930 You have red, yellow, and blue. 61 00:03:10,990 --> 00:03:12,460 Primary colors exist on their own. 62 00:03:12,630 --> 00:03:14,040 You can't mix anything to get them. 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,200 They just, those are the primary colors. 64 00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:21,920 But you can mix primary colors to get Secondary colors or mixed colors or, 65 00:03:22,370 --> 00:03:25,230 uh, in polyvagal theory, sometimes they're called hybrid states. 66 00:03:25,490 --> 00:03:26,800 I always call them mixed states. 67 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:27,270 Okay. 68 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:28,079 So that's the idea. 69 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,100 When you combine the primary colors, just like when you mix paints, you get 70 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,179 mixed colors in the polyvagal theory, mixed primary states, and you get 71 00:03:35,689 --> 00:03:39,660 mixed states, there are three original. 72 00:03:40,305 --> 00:03:42,935 Mixed states, that's what I call them, or the way I think about them at least. 73 00:03:43,475 --> 00:03:45,885 These are the three that were, that were first, and there's 74 00:03:45,935 --> 00:03:47,635 three more that came after that. 75 00:03:48,334 --> 00:03:51,605 The original three mixed states, as I refer to them, are 76 00:03:51,614 --> 00:03:53,855 freeze, play, and stillness. 77 00:03:54,395 --> 00:03:58,765 Freeze is Immobilization, just like Shutdown, but it's a different flavor. 78 00:03:59,135 --> 00:04:03,225 Freeze is immobilization with tenseness, the muscles are 79 00:04:03,225 --> 00:04:05,505 tense, the heartbeat is, is high. 80 00:04:05,594 --> 00:04:07,314 Freeze is like paralysis. 81 00:04:07,334 --> 00:04:10,894 It's a combination of Shutdown and Flight Fight. 82 00:04:10,924 --> 00:04:15,375 So the body is mobilized, but also immobile at the same time. 83 00:04:16,175 --> 00:04:21,125 Play is the next mixed state, and play is a combination of the safe social state. 84 00:04:21,835 --> 00:04:27,035 Plus, flight fight, so safe and connected, but also mobile. 85 00:04:27,625 --> 00:04:29,874 And the third mixed state is stillness. 86 00:04:29,875 --> 00:04:33,604 Stillness is where you're immobile, but safe. 87 00:04:33,895 --> 00:04:35,805 So, immobile, but okay with it. 88 00:04:35,994 --> 00:04:39,905 Stillness would be like, uh, laying down to go to sleep, uh, 89 00:04:39,914 --> 00:04:41,744 meditating, even using the restroom. 90 00:04:41,744 --> 00:04:45,534 All these require That you're immobile, but you're okay with it. 91 00:04:45,534 --> 00:04:48,814 Probably right now you have some level of stillness in your system. 92 00:04:49,055 --> 00:04:52,995 And there's three more mixed states which were added on, or at least 93 00:04:53,005 --> 00:04:55,064 officially, officially added on later. 94 00:04:55,624 --> 00:04:58,874 Uh, I think they all were added on actually in 2023. 95 00:04:58,884 --> 00:05:01,414 So that's appease, fawn, and intimacy. 96 00:05:01,414 --> 00:05:03,814 These are things that have been, or appease and fawn I think have been 97 00:05:03,814 --> 00:05:08,605 discussed, but they were officially recognized in our polyvagal world. 98 00:05:09,455 --> 00:05:11,534 Appease also came out in a paper. 99 00:05:12,005 --> 00:05:16,734 Discussing appeasement and or in comparison to Stockholm syndrome. 100 00:05:17,265 --> 00:05:23,045 So appease is the activation of all of the polyvagal states. 101 00:05:23,775 --> 00:05:27,415 Safety plus flight fight plus shutdown. 102 00:05:27,585 --> 00:05:30,464 So there's like an element of each one in appeasement. 103 00:05:31,205 --> 00:05:38,775 Appeasement, if I were to put it super simply, is the ability to use social cues. 104 00:05:39,370 --> 00:05:44,550 to lessen the threat during a life threatening ongoing scenario. 105 00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:45,920 That's my best understanding of it. 106 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:48,060 So this would be like a hostage situation. 107 00:05:48,340 --> 00:05:51,930 Pretty much if you think of Stockholm Syndrome, think of appeasement. 108 00:05:52,630 --> 00:05:54,500 So appease is different than fawn. 109 00:05:55,130 --> 00:05:58,729 Fawn is said to be a combination of flight fight with shutdown. 110 00:05:58,770 --> 00:06:00,660 I personally find this lacking. 111 00:06:01,090 --> 00:06:02,530 This came out in the book. 112 00:06:02,539 --> 00:06:04,760 There's no real deep paper written on this. 113 00:06:04,770 --> 00:06:08,979 It just is very briefly mentioned in the most recent book, Our Polyvagal 114 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:13,460 World, and I find this to be kind of lacking in the way that it's described. 115 00:06:13,740 --> 00:06:21,140 I, I conceptualize fawn as mostly a dissociative shutdown state. 116 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:27,360 So the primary state is shutdown, plus I suppose flight fight, but 117 00:06:28,020 --> 00:06:32,700 the behaviors of Fon, the complete surrendering of the self, the sacrificing 118 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:39,470 of one's values, appearing as a non threat to like a captor or an abuser. 119 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,920 That's different than trying to connect with them like with appeasement. 120 00:06:44,270 --> 00:06:48,780 Fon is saying I'm, I'm Going to anticipate your needs, and I am not 121 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:55,419 a threat, but I think that requires a huge shutdown, uh, dissociation. 122 00:06:55,789 --> 00:06:59,299 And I, I would actually argue that appease does as well, but none of 123 00:06:59,299 --> 00:07:03,399 these, both of those aren't really discussed in that way in the polyvagal 124 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,329 theory literature as far as I've seen. 125 00:07:05,679 --> 00:07:08,989 But I don't know how someone does the behaviors of appeasement and 126 00:07:08,989 --> 00:07:14,340 fawn without very significant amount of shut, uh, dissociative shutdown. 127 00:07:14,780 --> 00:07:18,260 And the last mixed state is intimacy. 128 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:23,929 Intimacy is said to be shutdown plus safety, but we already know 129 00:07:24,385 --> 00:07:26,705 Shutdown plus safety equals stillness. 130 00:07:27,185 --> 00:07:30,945 So the difference here is that intimacy involves another variable, 131 00:07:30,955 --> 00:07:32,705 which is someone else is present. 132 00:07:32,765 --> 00:07:34,115 A safe other is present. 133 00:07:34,755 --> 00:07:38,294 So basically intimacy is stillness plus a safe other. 134 00:07:38,534 --> 00:07:43,334 I created a couple podcast episodes about the newer mixed states where I 135 00:07:43,335 --> 00:07:47,994 really kind of, you know, shared my questions and concerns about the validity 136 00:07:47,994 --> 00:07:49,934 of them and the necessity of them. 137 00:07:50,354 --> 00:07:54,195 And I'll put some links in the description for you if you're interested in those. 138 00:07:54,405 --> 00:07:54,794 Okay. 139 00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:57,330 Very brief rundown of the political, uh, theory. 140 00:07:57,690 --> 00:07:59,970 Primary states and mixed states. 141 00:08:00,350 --> 00:08:02,450 Now, let's get to the story of Courtney. 142 00:08:02,450 --> 00:08:07,130 What I want you to do is, as you listen, see if you can identify when these 143 00:08:07,140 --> 00:08:10,030 states are active within Courtney, or even the other characters in the story. 144 00:08:10,570 --> 00:08:12,350 And, uh, when they change. 145 00:08:12,370 --> 00:08:15,960 When, when Courtney goes from one state to another. 146 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,920 Primarily, you're going to be looking for the primary states. 147 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:20,320 So, safe social. 148 00:08:20,755 --> 00:08:27,744 Flight fight shut down and then also I would say play and freeze are probably 149 00:08:27,764 --> 00:08:31,815 present Maybe a little bit of stillness the other mixed states the new ones I did 150 00:08:31,815 --> 00:08:35,794 not explicitly attempt to put in here, but you might find the flavor of them in 151 00:08:35,794 --> 00:08:37,594 here as well So I'm gonna read this story. 152 00:08:37,594 --> 00:08:40,674 This actually is coming out of a new book that I'm writing about the 153 00:08:40,674 --> 00:08:42,454 polyvagal theory It's called trauma. 154 00:08:42,505 --> 00:08:43,385 Actually, it's not a new book. 155 00:08:43,844 --> 00:08:47,444 It's a rewrite of a current ebook that I have out It's called trauma and the 156 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:52,730 polyvagal paradigm So I'm including this story of Courtney in there and it pops 157 00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:58,010 up a couple times in the book to, to illustrate or show what states are active 158 00:08:58,060 --> 00:08:59,790 as I'm talking about them in the book. 159 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,550 So I'm going to read the story as I currently have it written in 160 00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:04,350 my draft of the book right now. 161 00:09:04,730 --> 00:09:06,730 Before I get into the story real quick, there shouldn't be 162 00:09:06,730 --> 00:09:08,640 anything that's super triggering. 163 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,310 There's no like details of anything that I don't think is traumatic, but there 164 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,570 is kind of some flavoring of things that might be reminiscent of trauma. 165 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:21,719 So I don't know what is triggering for you or not, but this is kind of like 166 00:09:21,719 --> 00:09:25,319 your content warning or your trigger warning if you want to call it that. 167 00:09:25,339 --> 00:09:27,620 It's just a heads up before you continue. 168 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,990 Let me introduce you to Courtney. 169 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,509 She's a fictionalized representation of an actual therapy client. 170 00:09:35,025 --> 00:09:39,045 This story is going to illustrate a sequence of going from the safe and 171 00:09:39,045 --> 00:09:41,435 social state down the polyvagal ladder. 172 00:09:41,994 --> 00:09:45,685 We'll catch up with her after each state section to unfold her story. 173 00:09:46,395 --> 00:09:50,365 Courtney is a really sweet, kind hearted, soft spoken, 16 year old girl. 174 00:09:50,555 --> 00:09:55,194 It begins at her aunt's house, which she pronounces as unt or unty. 175 00:09:55,925 --> 00:09:57,485 The house, but I say aunt. 176 00:09:58,264 --> 00:10:03,165 The house acts as a gathering place for lots of family, friends, and neighbors. 177 00:10:03,435 --> 00:10:05,915 There is a front house and a smaller back house. 178 00:10:06,014 --> 00:10:09,734 Her uncle lives in the back house, where he needs constant tending to, 179 00:10:10,165 --> 00:10:12,025 as he's unable to walk on his own. 180 00:10:12,475 --> 00:10:14,145 Or do basic self care. 181 00:10:14,635 --> 00:10:18,455 People come and go from the back house to check on and tend to the uncle. 182 00:10:18,545 --> 00:10:21,475 Courtney and her friends like to hang out in the back house and watch 183 00:10:21,475 --> 00:10:23,405 TV or mess around on their phones. 184 00:10:23,775 --> 00:10:26,085 On this day in particular, that's what they're doing. 185 00:10:26,264 --> 00:10:27,934 They're smiling and they're laughing. 186 00:10:28,174 --> 00:10:31,005 They make eye contacts and they play fight with each other. 187 00:10:31,194 --> 00:10:33,975 She checks on her uncle and makes sure that he's tended to. 188 00:10:34,589 --> 00:10:37,800 She's compassionate, looks her uncle in the eyes gently, and 189 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,630 smiles at him with eye crinkles. 190 00:10:39,830 --> 00:10:41,390 We'll stop here and I'm going to ask you a question. 191 00:10:41,470 --> 00:10:45,729 Uh, what state, so far, does it sound like Courtney has 192 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,609 access to, and how can you tell? 193 00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:50,469 So if you guessed her safety state, yeah, I would agree. 194 00:10:50,469 --> 00:10:52,449 She's very well anchored in her safety state. 195 00:10:52,910 --> 00:10:54,240 She's able to check on her uncle. 196 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,490 She's connected with her friends. 197 00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:58,520 She also has access to a mixed state, which is play. 198 00:10:58,979 --> 00:11:00,749 Her and her friends were able to play fight. 199 00:11:00,989 --> 00:11:05,690 So she has plenty of safe and social activity within her, but also 200 00:11:05,690 --> 00:11:07,900 has some mobility, so it's play. 201 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,000 Alright, let's get back to Courtney. 202 00:11:09,470 --> 00:11:12,860 So she's at her aunt's house in the back house, tending to her uncle 203 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,019 and hanging out with her friends. 204 00:11:14,564 --> 00:11:17,055 Um, all of them are well anchored in their safety state as of right now. 205 00:11:17,235 --> 00:11:20,715 So Courtney's aunt's house is a gathering place for many people. 206 00:11:20,725 --> 00:11:22,535 Most of them, Courtney knows. 207 00:11:23,045 --> 00:11:28,105 But, on this day in particular, a strange man comes to the back house, 208 00:11:28,125 --> 00:11:30,235 where she and her friends are. 209 00:11:31,195 --> 00:11:34,225 Courtney and her friends see him come in through the front door. 210 00:11:34,715 --> 00:11:37,655 He makes eye contact with them, but his eyes are kind of wide 211 00:11:37,655 --> 00:11:38,835 and he just sort of stares. 212 00:11:39,295 --> 00:11:43,054 He doesn't say anything and he doesn't give them a smile, or do anything 213 00:11:43,054 --> 00:11:44,785 really to indicate that he's friendly. 214 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,400 The man walks to the back of the house to check on the uncle. 215 00:11:49,349 --> 00:11:52,639 Courtney feels a bit of hesitance and discomfort. 216 00:11:52,739 --> 00:11:56,390 She goes back to watching TV with her friends, and they don't 217 00:11:56,420 --> 00:11:57,810 think about or talk about him. 218 00:11:58,779 --> 00:12:02,239 But, then the man comes back out after a few minutes. 219 00:12:03,459 --> 00:12:08,099 He stands in the room with the TV where they are, and asks them how old they are. 220 00:12:08,569 --> 00:12:10,969 They feel uncomfortable, but they say their ages. 221 00:12:11,269 --> 00:12:13,349 16, 17, and 17. 222 00:12:14,219 --> 00:12:16,579 One of the girls tells him she has a boyfriend. 223 00:12:17,355 --> 00:12:20,125 The other one tells him they're too young for him and he 224 00:12:20,125 --> 00:12:21,415 doesn't need to worry about it. 225 00:12:22,325 --> 00:12:24,945 The man looks at Courtney and asks if she has a boyfriend. 226 00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:27,985 She says no with an uncomfortable laugh. 227 00:12:28,814 --> 00:12:31,655 He asks if she wants to go to the back room with him to check 228 00:12:31,655 --> 00:12:33,214 on her uncle and she says no. 229 00:12:33,305 --> 00:12:35,754 Her friends chime in and tell him to leave them alone. 230 00:12:35,785 --> 00:12:38,295 They're too young for him and he's acting weird. 231 00:12:39,235 --> 00:12:42,835 Courtney feels an impulse to leave but also feels stuck in her 232 00:12:42,835 --> 00:12:46,435 spot, terrified of this strange man that is far bigger than her. 233 00:12:46,564 --> 00:12:49,635 He approaches the three girls and his tone gets more firm. 234 00:12:49,745 --> 00:12:52,775 Little girls shouldn't be talking to no man like that, he said. 235 00:12:53,379 --> 00:12:55,140 The two friends scoff and ignore him. 236 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,220 Courtney stays still, ready to run, but scared into immobilization. 237 00:13:00,420 --> 00:13:03,240 The man storms off down the hallway and out of sight. 238 00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:06,259 Courtney thinks she should leave the situation, tells 239 00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:07,459 her friends, and they agree. 240 00:13:07,699 --> 00:13:10,759 Before they leave, um, she says she has some stuff in the back 241 00:13:10,759 --> 00:13:12,130 room that she needs to collect. 242 00:13:12,569 --> 00:13:15,189 Courtney sticks her head around the wall and peers down the hallway, 243 00:13:15,189 --> 00:13:17,229 feeling anxious and breathing shallow. 244 00:13:17,770 --> 00:13:20,629 The strange man is in the bathroom at the end of the hallway. 245 00:13:21,079 --> 00:13:23,790 So she quietly crosses the hall into the room with her stuff. 246 00:13:24,189 --> 00:13:27,430 She closes the door behind her and starts getting her stuff together. 247 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,740 Then she hears his voice outside the room. 248 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:31,280 Hey, you in there? 249 00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:32,419 Let me come in. 250 00:13:33,339 --> 00:13:34,819 Courtney laughs nervously. 251 00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:35,610 Yeah, I'm in here. 252 00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:36,979 I'll be out soon, she says. 253 00:13:37,999 --> 00:13:41,249 The man starts to open the door and Courtney grabs it and pulls it shut. 254 00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:44,199 I said let me in there with you, he says. 255 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,140 The two of them are pulling on the door handles. 256 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:49,420 She keeps laughing trying to play it off as a joke. 257 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:52,700 Her friends get involved and get him to back off. 258 00:13:52,750 --> 00:13:56,490 They say again he's being weird and start yelling at him to leave her alone. 259 00:13:57,470 --> 00:13:59,010 The man stops with a huff. 260 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:02,010 He yells into the air about little girls respecting grown men. 261 00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:04,940 Courtney emerges from the room with her stuff and heads straight to 262 00:14:04,940 --> 00:14:06,270 the front door with her friends. 263 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,830 Her friends keep yelling as they get to the front door. 264 00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:12,530 The man follows, yelling at them not to leave. 265 00:14:12,540 --> 00:14:15,700 He grabs Courtney by the arm, pulling her close to him. 266 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,620 Her friends are yelling at him, commanding him to stop, but he's 267 00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:21,830 ignoring them completely and 100 percent focused on Courtney. 268 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,209 Courtney has stopped trying to laugh things off at this point. 269 00:14:25,780 --> 00:14:27,900 She's become louder, yelling at him to let go. 270 00:14:28,499 --> 00:14:31,720 She's using one arm to pull his hand off of her other arm. 271 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:34,730 She and her friends begin to hit him as they yell directly 272 00:14:34,730 --> 00:14:36,130 at him, commanding him to stop. 273 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:37,930 But he's big. 274 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:38,580 Very big. 275 00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:39,910 And very dominant. 276 00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:43,600 Courtney and her friends were able to make so much noise that the people 277 00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:46,520 from the front house respond and make their way to the back house. 278 00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:50,280 One of Courtney's uncles intervenes and the strange man backs off. 279 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,220 We'll pause here before going to the next piece of the story. 280 00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:58,040 And the question I have for you here is, what state do you recognize or do you see 281 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,400 that Courtney's in or her friends as well? 282 00:15:00,660 --> 00:15:03,310 And when did you notice those shifts happening in the story? 283 00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:06,750 So once the man entered the back house, they probably experienced 284 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,070 some sort of flight activation. 285 00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:11,289 It seemed like Courtney felt that, but they didn't act on it. 286 00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,429 He left the situation, and they kind of left it at that. 287 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:17,835 So they didn't act on their flight activation, but Pretty quickly, they 288 00:15:17,835 --> 00:15:21,204 shifted down to fight activation, especially once Courtney was, or at 289 00:15:21,204 --> 00:15:25,295 least the friends did, once Courtney was in the room and they were pulling 290 00:15:25,295 --> 00:15:26,535 on the door from both sides of it. 291 00:15:27,004 --> 00:15:30,624 Her friends definitely acted on their fight activation, took Courtney longer, 292 00:15:30,624 --> 00:15:35,324 but she did eventually start using her fight activation and directly yelling and 293 00:15:35,324 --> 00:15:39,510 commanding Um, enough to get the attention of the other people on the property. 294 00:15:39,719 --> 00:15:42,430 You could also argue there is some freeze activation here. 295 00:15:42,469 --> 00:15:46,619 Courtney feels tense and kind of laughs it off, but that, that 296 00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:49,000 activation without acting on it. 297 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,369 So she's like, the flight fight's activated, but she's not. 298 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:53,500 Acting on it. 299 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:55,609 She's just kind of frozen or immobile in place. 300 00:15:55,609 --> 00:15:58,930 There might be a little freeze activation in there in this story. 301 00:15:59,050 --> 00:16:03,570 Even initially, even though there wasn't any direct confrontation happening, when 302 00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:07,659 she felt that flight activation, but also felt like immobilized in place, 303 00:16:07,710 --> 00:16:09,489 that could be a little, uh, freeze. 304 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,420 Okay, so let's get back to the story. 305 00:16:11,819 --> 00:16:16,040 Um, she's in the back house, Courtney is, with her friends at her aunt's home. 306 00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:17,270 The man came back there. 307 00:16:17,970 --> 00:16:20,890 He tried to get in the room with Courtney alone, uh, she and her friends 308 00:16:20,890 --> 00:16:24,990 got him to back off, uh, but he again tried to stop her at the front door. 309 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,540 They made enough noise to where people at the front house came to the back house. 310 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,900 One of the uncles intervenes and the strange man basically leaves. 311 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:34,210 So we'll pick it up from there. 312 00:16:34,269 --> 00:16:37,550 The strange man laughs it off and marches to the front house, 313 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,150 finally leaving the girls alone. 314 00:16:39,750 --> 00:16:42,820 Courtney and her friends explained what happened to the aunt and 315 00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:44,110 the others that gathered around. 316 00:16:44,615 --> 00:16:48,275 They explain how he was acting weird, how he tried to be alone with 317 00:16:48,305 --> 00:16:50,234 Courtney, and how he grabbed at her. 318 00:16:50,895 --> 00:16:54,074 They tell him everything, using their voices loudly and forcefully. 319 00:16:54,294 --> 00:16:59,235 They demand action be taken that the uncles, quote unquote, beat his ass. 320 00:17:00,345 --> 00:17:04,844 Her aunt says, We heard you yelling, then we checked the security cameras and 321 00:17:04,844 --> 00:17:07,054 saw everything before coming down here. 322 00:17:07,895 --> 00:17:11,185 The aunt looks Courtney up and down and says, He wouldn't act 323 00:17:11,194 --> 00:17:13,405 that way if you didn't lead him on. 324 00:17:14,365 --> 00:17:15,214 Courtney is stunned. 325 00:17:15,934 --> 00:17:17,775 Her eyes go wide and she stands still. 326 00:17:18,219 --> 00:17:19,889 Lead him on, she checks herself. 327 00:17:20,190 --> 00:17:21,740 I'm wearing a t shirt, auntie. 328 00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:23,440 We were just watching TV. 329 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:26,300 I've seen you and your friends back here before. 330 00:17:26,709 --> 00:17:30,019 I've seen you talking to the men and tying up your shirts and showing your skin. 331 00:17:30,159 --> 00:17:32,459 Courtney feels the energy leave her body. 332 00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:35,340 She goes numb and her shoulders slump down into feet. 333 00:17:35,999 --> 00:17:36,729 The aunt continues. 334 00:17:37,429 --> 00:17:39,040 Don't be coming around here no more. 335 00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:40,969 You and your little friends can go somewhere else. 336 00:17:42,149 --> 00:17:44,250 Courtney hangs her head and walks slowly off. 337 00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:48,240 Her friends put their arm around her, yelling back at the ants about 338 00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:52,100 what really happened and how wrong this is, how they don't deserve this. 339 00:17:52,449 --> 00:17:54,680 Okay, so what did you notice in this piece? 340 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,710 And particularly focusing on the difference between freeze and shutdown. 341 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:00,929 Did you see something different here? 342 00:18:01,930 --> 00:18:04,820 Courtney, she just kind of like lost, the energy just gets 343 00:18:04,820 --> 00:18:06,180 drained from, it leaves her body. 344 00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:08,660 She slumps down, her head's down, and she walks off. 345 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,380 She seems very defeated. 346 00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:13,219 This is, uh, what I would say is shutdown. 347 00:18:13,229 --> 00:18:16,159 This is shutdown in a real life scenario. 348 00:18:16,179 --> 00:18:19,329 She didn't flat out immobilize and like collapse and faint. 349 00:18:19,690 --> 00:18:22,599 That would be the extreme version of shutdown and maybe a real 350 00:18:22,609 --> 00:18:26,840 life threatening scenario, but in this scenario, she is not safe. 351 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,129 She can't run away from it. 352 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,640 Um, kinda could fight against it, but still isn't safe. 353 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:35,210 The man, there's no repercussion, there's no justice here, right? 354 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,690 There, he's still there and he's still very much a threat. 355 00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:42,639 And the people in her life who are supposed to care about her the most 356 00:18:42,639 --> 00:18:45,170 and protect her, uh, they're not. 357 00:18:45,219 --> 00:18:51,660 So, yeah, she kinda goes into a shutdown and just the energy leaves her body. 358 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:52,990 So that's the story of Courtney. 359 00:18:52,990 --> 00:18:56,660 I know, super depressing, kind of leaving you on a low note here, I guess. 360 00:18:56,660 --> 00:19:01,010 But, when this person, and of course this is super anonymized, but, uh, when this 361 00:19:01,010 --> 00:19:05,099 person came to me in therapy, we were able to process this, and she was able to climb 362 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:09,180 out of her polyvagal ladder, talking about the situation, coming out of shutdown. 363 00:19:09,355 --> 00:19:12,435 Because it definitely lingered in her system for quite a while. 364 00:19:13,115 --> 00:19:17,325 Uh, but she came out of shutdown, was able to feel empowerment and actually 365 00:19:17,445 --> 00:19:21,155 talk to the ants about it and put in a really, really healthy boundary. 366 00:19:21,895 --> 00:19:22,815 Basically, she was just. 367 00:19:23,225 --> 00:19:28,155 done going there and she carried that momentum and started really advocating 368 00:19:28,155 --> 00:19:34,355 for herself and using her Fight energy with her safety state So using her power 369 00:19:34,425 --> 00:19:38,814 to put in and enforce healthy boundaries with a number of people in her life 370 00:19:38,814 --> 00:19:41,064 She kind of kicks butt so it ends up. 371 00:19:41,564 --> 00:19:45,179 Okay, I suppose I'm sad She had to go through this but she definitely 372 00:19:45,179 --> 00:19:49,070 grew from it and was able to process it and empower herself. 373 00:19:49,159 --> 00:19:50,379 I hope that benefited you. 374 00:19:50,379 --> 00:19:53,750 I hope you can clearly see some of the polyvagal states in action, how they 375 00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:56,219 could realistically look day to day. 376 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,289 If you're in my community this whole week, we're spending each day. 377 00:19:59,289 --> 00:20:03,189 We're dissecting the story and talking about these states and also how 378 00:20:03,189 --> 00:20:04,889 to recognize them within yourself. 379 00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:08,370 If you're interested in joining me in my private community or making progress 380 00:20:08,379 --> 00:20:11,639 on your trauma recovery journey, I have something called the Stuck 381 00:20:11,639 --> 00:20:14,040 Not Broken Total Access Membership. 382 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:18,279 It gives you access to, total access to, a private community, 383 00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:19,939 which is small and cozy. 384 00:20:19,939 --> 00:20:23,839 It's not thousands of people like you'd find on a free Facebook community. 385 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:29,260 It's a small, cozy community of people who are Not sharing trauma 386 00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:33,790 narratives, they are providing ideas, support, a little advice here and 387 00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:37,010 there, asking questions as they come up, sharing ahas as they come up. 388 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:38,439 It's an awesome little community. 389 00:20:38,579 --> 00:20:40,379 I'm super proud of everybody in there. 390 00:20:40,469 --> 00:20:44,100 But on top of the community, there's also my trauma recovery courses. 391 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:47,490 There's three of them, and those three put together form my 392 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,820 Polyvagal Trauma Relief System. 393 00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:53,219 They teach you the Polyvagal Theory simply and clearly in two hours. 394 00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:56,049 The second phase is building safety anchors, which is building the 395 00:20:56,049 --> 00:20:57,139 strength of your safety state. 396 00:20:57,649 --> 00:21:00,020 And the, in preparation for the third state. 397 00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:04,260 Uh, or third phase, and the third phase is unstucking defensive states, 398 00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:10,420 which teaches you how to actively and compassionately feel all of what it's 399 00:21:10,420 --> 00:21:14,769 like to be you, including the defensive state stuff, including the trauma stuff. 400 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:16,919 It does not force you to retell trauma narratives. 401 00:21:16,970 --> 00:21:20,950 It doesn't push you farther than you're able to go, but it is the third phase 402 00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:25,310 of actually relieving what you're, relieving your stuck defensive state. 403 00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:32,150 If you want to learn more about that, Head on over to justin l mft.com/total access. 404 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,190 Again, justin l mft.com/total access. 405 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,710 I will also have a link for you in the description. 406 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,100 I'm really glad that you're here as a part of the podcast and I hope to welcome 407 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,930 you in the Community Fellows duck dot. 408 00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:48,110 I really hope this episode has been a helpful resource for you in your 409 00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:51,020 own trauma recovery journey or just understanding this polyvagal stuff. 410 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:51,770 Bye. 411 00:21:52,060 --> 00:21:55,930 This podcast is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or 412 00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:57,660 be a replacement for therapy. 413 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,170 Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. 414 00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:06,700 Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are 415 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:08,820 experiencing mental health symptoms. 416 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:13,800 Nothing in this podcast should be construed to be specific life advice. 417 00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:17,350 It is for educational and entertainment purposes only. 418 00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:21,449 More resources are available in the description of this episode 419 00:22:21,469 --> 00:22:23,770 and in the footer of justinlmft. 420 00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:24,289 com.