Speaker: 00:00:00

It is all about celebrating places and that that obviously ties into ties into homes more

specifically.

00:00:08,536 --> 00:00:10,907

But I've drawn lots of football stadiums.

00:00:10,907 --> 00:00:15,992

I drew Leeds Town Hall where myself and my wife, we got married.

00:00:15,992 --> 00:00:18,564

Parkinson building in Leeds where people graduate.

00:00:18,564 --> 00:00:20,979

So it's about celebrating these these.

00:00:20,979 --> 00:00:25,512

buildings, but more than buildings, the places that matter, that mean something to us.

00:00:25,512 --> 00:00:27,106

and everything in between.

00:00:27,106 --> 00:00:27,807

I love it.

00:00:27,807 --> 00:00:33,192

Belonging and place is just a massive part of our identity and who we are.

00:00:59,725 --> 00:00:33,079

00:00:33,079 --> 00:00:36,574

I live in a terrace street, classic kind of red brick terrace.

00:00:36,574 --> 00:00:42,257

There's thousands of them around here, but this one means something to me and

00:00:42,257 --> 00:00:45,327

that's why I want to try and capture and celebrate for people,

00:00:45,327 --> 00:00:48,459

we make sense of ourselves through the communities that we're in.

00:00:48,459 --> 00:00:48,989

00:00:48,989 --> 00:00:55,053

I'm exploring that through a psychological lens and you're exploring that through that

artistic lens

00:00:55,158 --> 00:00:59,198

I think if we're going to go into a little bit of the kind of psychology behind it all.

00:00:59,198 --> 00:01:02,309

I was brought up as a, I was a kind of Air Force brat.

00:01:02,309 --> 00:01:05,650

So I was born in Swindon I lived in Germany for six years.

00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:07,748

I lived in all kinds of different places.

00:01:07,748 --> 00:01:11,473

I went to 16 different schools over my, childhood.

00:01:11,473 --> 00:01:15,684

And I think I can remember being somewhat

00:01:15,684 --> 00:01:25,769

perplexed by conversations people would have when I was younger about people putting down

roots and this idea that you would be rooted to a place because I never was, was always,

00:01:25,769 --> 00:01:38,836

every two or three years we would move and I get it now as a 40 something year old bloke

with, I've got an 11 year old and a five year old, we bought this house before either of

00:01:38,836 --> 00:01:39,598

them were born,

00:01:39,598 --> 00:01:45,495

Our whole lives are kind of baked in and around this sort of, well, it's like a 10 mile

radius of our house really.

00:01:45,495 --> 00:01:49,768

And yeah, it's taken all that time to kind of understand that, I suppose.

00:01:50,930 --> 00:01:57,323

I could talk to you all day about houses and geography because that's just, you know, that

is infinitely interesting.

00:01:57,323 --> 00:02:04,140

But what I'm really interested in is what goal or resolution do you have and where's that

come from?

00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:07,946

Well, I think if I'm going to get super kind of business focused here.

00:02:07,946 --> 00:02:16,185

So at the moment, I'm just about kind of scraping by in terms of what I'm doing, but I've

got quite big ambitions.

00:02:16,185 --> 00:02:19,869

I want to grow Ace of Place into something bigger than just me.

00:02:19,869 --> 00:02:24,435

I like the idea of bringing in additional artists.

00:02:24,435 --> 00:02:29,610

or additional illustrators, maybe on a kind of guest basis or even more permanently.

00:02:29,610 --> 00:02:44,108

think my vision for Ace of Place in the future is that we can become sort of as the place

to go for a portrait of your home or whatever and that you could land on the Ace of Place

00:02:44,108 --> 00:02:47,853

website and you might be able to choose, you could pick your artist.

00:02:47,853 --> 00:02:54,118

And you can look at different kind of styles and go from there.

00:02:54,118 --> 00:02:55,594

I think there's a few challenges.

00:02:55,594 --> 00:03:02,139

Obviously the world of AI is something that we're just, every post under the sun is

talking about that at the moment.

00:03:02,139 --> 00:03:05,141

I don't use any AI at all in what I do.

00:03:05,141 --> 00:03:06,995

It's all drawn from scratch.

00:03:06,995 --> 00:03:08,223

I'm really proud of that.

00:03:08,223 --> 00:03:12,956

I think that's a real point of difference, but I also am

00:03:12,956 --> 00:03:22,033

can't deny there's a threat, but I think it's understanding that if people want a picture

of their house and they want it as cheap as they can get it, I'm not the place to go.

00:03:22,033 --> 00:03:24,646

I'm not that person.

00:03:24,646 --> 00:03:27,288

And I've got to be okay with that, and I am okay with that.

00:03:27,288 --> 00:03:35,995

But that's big challenge, I suppose, is can I get to a place by this time next year

00:03:35,995 --> 00:03:44,455

where I'm really, I'm in a serious position that I can look at bringing somebody else on

board.

00:03:44,455 --> 00:03:55,086

And what I need to do with that, I've been working with a business coach over the last

sort of few months and stuff anyway, so I've got a lot clearer on what my kind of goals

00:03:55,086 --> 00:04:00,526

and where I need to get to in terms of clients and things like that.

00:04:00,526 --> 00:04:05,017

I switched my sort of focus.

00:04:05,017 --> 00:04:12,063

last year or sort of at the start of this year really and turned it much more into a kind

B2B rather than a B2C business.

00:04:12,063 --> 00:04:14,157

00:04:14,157 --> 00:04:15,720

shift and what that looks like.

00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:26,906

I think what I was trying to do is to appeal to kind of people like me, proud homeowners,

people who have completed renovations, people just moving house, these sort of kind of

00:04:26,906 --> 00:04:28,086

general population.

00:04:28,086 --> 00:04:36,820

And actually I became much more targeted, tried to target estate agents and mortgage

brokers and property developers and people like that.

00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:38,551

The theory being that these people...

00:04:38,551 --> 00:04:43,752

Once you've commissioned me once, once you've got picture of your house, you're not going

to want another one next year or the year after or whatever.

00:04:43,752 --> 00:04:45,704

know, it's one and done, it?

00:04:45,704 --> 00:04:50,918

So estate agents are, you know, selling 20, 50, 100 houses a year.

00:04:50,918 --> 00:04:59,033

Can I find, you know, a core group of estate agents that really get what I do, love, you

know, love property, passionate about what they do too.

00:04:59,033 --> 00:05:01,496

And can I get them to commit to?

00:05:01,496 --> 00:05:04,896

I reckon I need to do a roundabout.

00:05:04,896 --> 00:05:08,622

120 to 150 portraits a year would put me in a really good place.

00:05:08,622 --> 00:05:10,378

So that's about 12 a month.

00:05:10,378 --> 00:05:14,996

I'm probably doing about six or seven at the moment.

00:05:14,996 --> 00:05:23,015

So I guess the big goal for me is to be consistently doing 12 portraits every month by

this time next year.

00:05:23,015 --> 00:05:26,266

I've got three core clients, people that have come to me.

00:05:26,266 --> 00:05:30,446

One of them has done 24 portraits with me so far.

00:05:30,446 --> 00:05:32,906

Another one has done 21 with me so far.

00:05:32,906 --> 00:05:35,457

And the third one is just on number nine.

00:05:35,457 --> 00:05:40,679

But I need to get, I'd like to get at least 10 people into that category.

00:05:40,679 --> 00:05:42,302

I've just invested in a...

00:05:42,302 --> 00:05:47,942

in a CRM system, which I never thought I would do.

00:05:47,982 --> 00:05:52,854

actually, I think it's really helped just in the sort of six weeks that I've been using

it.

00:05:52,854 --> 00:05:56,954

I can track the relationships I've got with them.

00:05:56,954 --> 00:06:00,714

So whenever I've had a contact with them, I can put data in there.

00:06:00,714 --> 00:06:01,508

So then...

00:06:01,508 --> 00:06:04,683

and then I can diarise checking in with them again in the future.

00:06:04,683 --> 00:06:09,317

and I can categorise them into different kind of prospect types.

00:06:09,317 --> 00:06:20,019

And my ambition each day is to try and nudge people down that funnel as much as I can

without pushing too hard I think that's the thing that I've learned this year is I'm not,

00:06:20,019 --> 00:06:24,684

yes, I'm a designer and I'm an illustrator, but actually that's the easy bit of the job.

00:06:24,684 --> 00:06:26,436

The big part of the job.

00:06:26,436 --> 00:06:41,836

is the marketing and sales piece that's massive and I think I've drawn something like 400,

500 homes now so I do still sometimes get in my head and think oh well this is just

00:06:41,836 --> 00:06:53,136

nonsense you're not any good at this Darren no one's buying it no one's commissioned you

this week what are you playing at blah blah blah all the sort of self doubt that every

00:06:53,136 --> 00:06:55,499

single one of us goes through from time to time

00:06:55,499 --> 00:06:59,170

Proof of concept is long since proven.

00:06:59,170 --> 00:07:01,461

I've done this multiple times.

00:07:01,461 --> 00:07:11,125

I've had people say really wonderful things about what I've done, What the challenge is,

and always has been, is actually getting the eyeballs on it.

00:07:11,125 --> 00:07:16,273

How do I expose it to enough people to get me to a point where it starts to snowball?

00:07:16,273 --> 00:07:17,315

So let's roll back.

00:07:17,315 --> 00:07:21,259

it feels like there are two prongs to your goal.

00:07:21,259 --> 00:07:22,881

One is growth.

00:07:22,881 --> 00:07:25,492

And that growth is in a new category.

00:07:25,492 --> 00:07:28,035

So you switch to B2B.

00:07:28,035 --> 00:07:31,118

where people are buying repeat products from you.

00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:35,050

But then the second prong of that growth is expansion.

00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:47,335

And that expansion is moving to a presumably a consultancy model or associate model where

you've got different designers or illustrators working with your portfolio.

100

00:07:47,335 --> 00:07:53,629

So a question that I've got is at what point does the activity of growth

101

00:08:05,644 --> 00:07:59,025

what point does that then shift or move into that expansion?

102

00:07:59,025 --> 00:08:01,430

Yeah, well that's the million dollar question really.

103

00:08:01,430 --> 00:08:08,527

think what Leona, shout out to Leona by the way, joyful selling, if you've ever heard of

her, she's wonderful.

104

00:08:08,527 --> 00:08:12,441

She's who I've done a little bit of coaching with over the last few months.

105

00:08:12,441 --> 00:08:21,927

I think she's helped me sort of, not uncover, but sort of realise this level of ambition

that I've kind of always had,

106

00:08:21,927 --> 00:08:26,940

Probably the last three or four years, I've just been like, anything to survive.

107

00:08:26,940 --> 00:08:29,591

I don't really care about doing anything big.

108

00:08:29,591 --> 00:08:31,484

I just want to pay the bills kind of thing.

109

00:08:31,484 --> 00:08:36,971

So I've kind of, you know, it's kind of reignited that ambition in me

110

00:08:36,971 --> 00:08:40,515

So, where do I get to?

111

00:08:40,515 --> 00:08:52,851

guess the first challenge is just get to a sustainable place first and that is get to that

consistent 12 commissions a month position which I haven't been in yet and I would like to

112

00:08:52,851 --> 00:08:56,486

be in for three months, four months, six months.

113

00:08:56,486 --> 00:09:05,333

get to a place where I've got a kind of, you know, a waiting list and I'm booked out and I

know that I can look ahead and I can say, look, for the next three months, I've got this,

114

00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:06,805

this, this in the books.

115

00:09:06,805 --> 00:09:10,418

I don't need to worry about what I'm working on next week or the week after that.

116

00:09:10,418 --> 00:09:13,450

I know I'm already stacked up.

117

00:09:13,450 --> 00:09:22,190

I think when I get to that position, that's when I'll think, okay, people are coming to me

and asking me to do work and I'm not able to do it.

118

00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:25,144

That's when I've got a different type of problem to solve.

119

00:09:25,144 --> 00:09:26,627

I'm not there yet.

120

00:09:26,627 --> 00:09:28,118

Can I replay that to you?

121

00:09:28,118 --> 00:09:32,342

But be artistic in my license and how I describe it.

122

00:09:32,418 --> 00:09:36,143

So I would describe that as I'm going work really, really, hard.

123

00:09:36,143 --> 00:09:39,429

And when I can't cope, I'm going to draft in some help.

124

00:09:39,429 --> 00:09:48,048

So I want to challenge your belief there that you have to be at a certain capacity to

expand.

125

00:09:48,048 --> 00:09:50,742

Is that the belief that you're holding at the moment?

126

00:09:50,742 --> 00:09:51,853

Yeah, I think so.

127

00:09:51,853 --> 00:09:58,598

I think, again, if it to go back historically, I this is I've worked for myself now for

18, 19 years, a long time.

128

00:09:58,598 --> 00:10:04,605

So I've been around the block a bit and I have had these ideas of what I would.

129

00:10:04,605 --> 00:10:12,533

The sort of the bad part in my head tells me they're grandiose ideas and that kind of who

do you think you are type of thing.

130

00:10:12,533 --> 00:10:15,074

And I think I've well, I have.

131

00:10:15,074 --> 00:10:17,046

felt burnt by that in the past.

132

00:10:17,046 --> 00:10:24,951

So I'm very sort of protective of my own state of mind to an extent, think, is to not push

too far too quick.

133

00:10:24,951 --> 00:10:27,663

Like don't run away with yourself here, Darren.

134

00:10:27,663 --> 00:10:39,524

Just deal with the, get your shit together right now before you start thinking about doing

X, Y and Z, because you've got stuff to figure out in the moment, like in the short term.

135

00:10:39,524 --> 00:10:47,850

I've started to take things like CRM systems a lot more seriously than I ever have done in

the past because that's what's gonna help me get there.

136

00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:55,727

I've got big visions and grandiose ideas but without the systems and the processes and the

structure in place.

137

00:10:55,727 --> 00:10:57,629

and I haven't got anybody else who's gonna do that for me.

138

00:10:57,629 --> 00:11:03,777

I've got to bite the bullet and be a grownup about it and start doing those things myself.

139

00:11:03,777 --> 00:11:05,819

So that's where I am.

140

00:11:09,257 --> 00:11:08,713

No, it's really interesting to hear you talk.

141

00:11:08,713 --> 00:11:11,861

I'm giving you, hopefully giving you space to just talk it out.

142

00:11:11,861 --> 00:11:18,700

I'm quite intrigued by use of the word grandiose and what you've described to me as your

vision.

143

00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:22,462

I, you know, certainly I'm not judging that as being grandiose.

144

00:11:22,462 --> 00:11:26,684

I'm judging it as being, wow, that sounds really exciting and doable.

145

00:11:26,684 --> 00:11:30,866

And everything that you're describing to me sounds that you've put your thought into it.

146

00:11:30,866 --> 00:11:31,823

You've done your research.

147

00:11:31,823 --> 00:11:33,787

You're working with the right people.

148

00:11:33,787 --> 00:11:37,030

You're capitalising on resources that are available to you.

149

00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:46,616

And I can hear you reflecting on your experience, those 16, 17 years in recruitment and

running a business and saying, what do I do differently here?

150

00:11:46,616 --> 00:11:47,586

how do I do that?

151

00:11:47,586 --> 00:11:51,679

But the word of the word grandiose then feels a little bit off.

152

00:11:51,679 --> 00:12:02,273

It feels like perhaps you don't quite believe that that you deserve this right now and and

that that is that kind of who do you think you are and

153

00:12:02,273 --> 00:12:10,976

I don't know that I've got it completely sussed in terms of how I overcome that.

154

00:12:10,976 --> 00:12:22,380

But yeah, mean, that has always been the biggest barrier for me is this idea that um

following through, I've always been someone who's had big ideas and big plans.

155

00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:24,992

And I can hear myself doing it now.

156

00:12:24,992 --> 00:12:27,053

I've always been this, I've always been that.

157

00:12:27,053 --> 00:12:29,096

Doesn't mean I always have to be that thing.

158

00:12:29,096 --> 00:12:36,373

So it's sort of having that level of self-awareness and not falling into traps that I have

done in the past.

159

00:12:36,373 --> 00:12:44,053

And I think probably the trap that I've fallen into in the past is listening to myself say

that too much and then stepping back and thinking,

160

00:12:44,053 --> 00:12:48,911

oh Don't don't try it's not going to it's not going to work What's the point?

161

00:12:48,911 --> 00:12:57,286

Go and do X Y or Z instead so getting better at that but still Yeah, still challenges to

to overcome for sure

162

00:12:57,286 --> 00:13:01,911

it might be useful to reflect on your previous business but talk to me about

collaboration.

163

00:13:01,911 --> 00:13:07,447

How does, or what would collaboration with artists look like for you?

164

00:13:07,447 --> 00:13:13,603

It would be really cool to find, someone with a kind of, really kind of similar style of

outlook to me or whatever.

165

00:13:13,603 --> 00:13:17,365

I just, I mean, I like to, I like seeing cool work.

166

00:13:17,365 --> 00:13:21,349

I like seeing work that I look at and think, God, how would you do that?

167

00:13:21,349 --> 00:13:27,734

And I like it to be a bit edgy, a bit contemporary, challenging the sort of status quo.

168

00:13:27,734 --> 00:13:31,027

You know, I'm not out here trying to pretend I'm a, mean.

169

00:13:31,027 --> 00:13:36,802

I'm not Picasso, know, starting that sort of abstract impressionist movement or anything.

170

00:13:36,802 --> 00:13:38,093

I'm just drawing houses.

171

00:13:38,093 --> 00:13:43,719

But I try and do it in a way or I'm trying to do it in a way that feels authentic to me.

172

00:13:43,719 --> 00:13:49,465

And the idea, what's always appealed to me as a designer, especially, is how can I

communicate

173

00:13:49,465 --> 00:13:54,423

something with as fewer strokes of the metaphorical brush as possible.

174

00:13:54,423 --> 00:14:02,109

I also think I would really love to do from a more human point of view is I know how

bloody hard it is to get work when you're doing stuff like this.

175

00:14:02,109 --> 00:14:11,578

So if Ace of Place can become a platform for artists where someone can show up and like

give them some work without really having to try too hard for it.

176

00:14:11,578 --> 00:14:13,155

And I can provide that

177

00:14:13,155 --> 00:14:17,547

that opportunity to them, that would be so, that would be super, super rewarding.

178

00:14:17,547 --> 00:14:25,409

Go, go do something wonderful there and then do it under, you know, under my umbrella and

that's, you know, that's that.

179

00:14:25,409 --> 00:14:28,987

And it strikes me that this is an area that you're...

180

00:14:28,987 --> 00:14:32,889

very seasoned and expert in because you ran a recruitment business.

181

00:14:32,889 --> 00:14:45,336

So you understand that business model of doing the hard work, putting the time in,

building those client relationships with the B2B and then bringing in the candidates where

182

00:14:45,336 --> 00:14:48,198

for them it should be a fairly seamless process, right?

183

00:14:48,198 --> 00:14:51,660

you're the perfect person to be thinking about that type of

184

00:14:51,660 --> 00:14:52,216

model.

185

00:14:52,216 --> 00:15:00,916

Yeah, I think it would be really cool to find some talent out there that might be

undiscovered.

186

00:15:01,124 --> 00:15:07,296

I used to work with some really, really high flying people, people on multiple six figures

salaries and things.

187

00:15:07,296 --> 00:15:17,477

the satisfaction always came mostly from getting people on that first rung of the ladder,

finding those entry-level roles and that really changing somebody's life and opening up a

188

00:15:17,477 --> 00:15:19,329

new world for them.

189

00:15:19,329 --> 00:15:21,833

That was where the real joy was.

190

00:15:21,833 --> 00:15:27,452

I've not really thought about the kind of parallels with my sort of old world and this

one, but there definitely are in that respect.

191

00:15:27,452 --> 00:15:37,668

So there's this idea then of that expansion looking like a curation an aesthetic that is

complimentary to your brand.

192

00:15:37,668 --> 00:15:38,515

Yeah.

193

00:15:38,660 --> 00:15:48,423

how do you know the type of aesthetic that your existing clients would also be interested

in if you're offering a portfolio

194

00:15:48,423 --> 00:15:49,774

I don't know actually.

195

00:15:49,774 --> 00:16:02,925

And I think I had a little bit of a kind of epiphany a couple of weeks ago insofar as

this, particularly with the more B2B clients, the estate agents and mortgage brokers and

196

00:16:02,925 --> 00:16:04,616

people like that.

197

00:16:04,616 --> 00:16:09,258

It dawned on me that they're not really buying the art, I don't think.

198

00:16:09,258 --> 00:16:12,364

What I'm doing is I'm solving a problem for them.

199

00:16:12,364 --> 00:16:19,741

Either the issue they've got is that there's an expectation for them to leave behind some

kind of completion gift.

200

00:16:19,741 --> 00:16:24,564

Probably for their buyer, almost definitely for their seller, because they're the ones

that are paying the fees.

201

00:16:24,564 --> 00:16:30,118

Stereotypically, your estate agent might give you a bottle of Prosecco or something like

that.

202

00:16:30,118 --> 00:16:30,979

which is great.

203

00:16:30,979 --> 00:16:33,903

You drink the Prosecco, you say thank you very much.

204

00:16:33,903 --> 00:16:36,754

But six weeks later, you know, it's done and dusted.

205

00:16:36,754 --> 00:16:38,076

You forget about it, don't you?

206

00:16:38,076 --> 00:16:49,571

What I'm doing is I'm providing them with something that looks and is really, really

thoughtful, properly unique and bespoke, with lots and lots of time and effort that's gone

207

00:16:49,571 --> 00:16:54,245

into creating it, that leaves a lasting legacy for them as well.

208

00:16:54,245 --> 00:16:59,478

lots of the agents have, you know, little sign-off lines on the bottom of the portraits

sold by...

209

00:16:59,478 --> 00:17:07,089

sold by Tim in 2025 or Holly who I've just done one for in Hull has her little sold board

baked into the portrait as well.

210

00:17:07,089 --> 00:17:11,740

Some people have their logos kind of watermarked, watermark it in the edges for them.

211

00:17:11,740 --> 00:17:18,164

So they're putting, they're literally putting a referral engine into their client's home.

212

00:17:18,164 --> 00:17:20,835

And put yourself in an estate agent's shoes.

213

00:17:20,835 --> 00:17:24,428

Imagine if all of your client's friends come round.

214

00:17:24,428 --> 00:17:25,716

Oh, that's a cool picture.

215

00:17:25,716 --> 00:17:26,686

Where did you get that done?

216

00:17:26,686 --> 00:17:29,578

my estate agent, Tim gave it to me when we sold our house.

217

00:17:29,578 --> 00:17:30,239

bang.

218

00:17:30,239 --> 00:17:31,432

And off we go.

219

00:17:31,432 --> 00:17:32,014

So.

220

00:17:32,014 --> 00:17:36,686

And the agents get to do that with really limited sort of effort on their part.

221

00:17:36,686 --> 00:17:38,840

All they have to do is send me their listing.

222

00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,951

I draw the house.

223

00:17:39,951 --> 00:17:40,931

I package it up.

224

00:17:40,931 --> 00:17:41,699

I frame it.

225

00:17:41,699 --> 00:17:43,100

They give it to their seller.

226

00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:46,643

They're buying it because it's solving a problem for them.

227

00:17:46,643 --> 00:17:51,719

So in a sense, I don't know that it would matter that much who the artist was.

228

00:17:51,719 --> 00:17:56,132

I think they might just go on the site and pick a flavour and say, that one looks nice.

229

00:17:56,132 --> 00:18:03,701

different when I'm talking to consumers because I think they do fall in love with your

style and your aesthetic a little bit more.

230

00:18:03,701 --> 00:18:07,206

But no, with the business, the business market, I think it's a different framing.

231

00:18:07,206 --> 00:18:17,621

Perhaps that's an action to look at different aesthetics and to float those with some of

your current clients and to see how that looks.

232

00:18:17,621 --> 00:18:24,518

I think I just want to draw your attention to, this is interesting, because I wrote down,

you said, I'm just drawing houses.

233

00:18:24,518 --> 00:18:28,062

But then we took a breath and you went on to say,

234

00:18:28,222 --> 00:18:39,184

but I'm solving problems you've given two opposites haven't you I suppose of where you

view this business in your head there is the part of it that's going I'm just drawing

235

00:18:39,184 --> 00:18:44,095

houses who do I think I am and then you've got this bit where you know there's a

completely

236

00:18:44,095 --> 00:18:55,283

obvious response which is fulfilling a very direct need for the business you're selling it

to but it provides pleasure and belonging to the people who get the gift at the end I

237

00:18:55,283 --> 00:19:02,292

would reflect with you that's potentially some of the the thought process when you're

setting your goals is

238

00:19:02,292 --> 00:19:06,045

Can you reconcile the differences that you sit with?

239

00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:10,858

does that solidify that belief of, I've got to grow before I can expand?

240

00:19:10,858 --> 00:19:13,796

just don't know how expanding, how I could.

241

00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:18,578

If I wanted to expand any earlier, I couldn't contemplate doing that right now because...

242

00:19:18,578 --> 00:19:22,350

What, because in my mind I've got, I'm not ready to do that.

243

00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:24,002

Why am I not ready to do that?

244

00:19:24,002 --> 00:19:28,035

Well, because I'm not making enough revenue to do that.

245

00:19:28,035 --> 00:19:35,321

can't, I'm creating more work for myself when I'm barely able to do the work that I've got

to do already, I suppose.

246

00:19:35,321 --> 00:19:37,958

Yeah, there's some exploring to do there, I guess.

247

00:19:37,958 --> 00:19:39,770

let's take a further angle.

248

00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:45,864

one of the things that you'd said was I'd like to give people a rung on the ladder.

249

00:19:45,864 --> 00:19:48,045

I get a sense of satisfaction from that.

250

00:19:48,045 --> 00:19:50,546

And that's something that you've experienced in a previous role.

251

00:19:50,546 --> 00:19:54,669

But then you'd also talked about giving other artists opportunity.

252

00:19:54,669 --> 00:20:04,294

this might be more akin to a narrative that I see with women in business where that

generosity and fairness comes before profit.

253

00:20:04,294 --> 00:20:14,212

you're talking about growing the business and being able to give all the people

opportunity, but at the same time, there's a belief that I can't grow until I'm somewhere

254

00:20:14,212 --> 00:20:15,174

myself.

255

00:20:15,174 --> 00:20:16,865

Which one is the priority?

256

00:20:16,865 --> 00:20:21,950

Is it the growth for you or is it the expansion to give other people platform?

257

00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:23,741

think the growth for me is the priority.

258

00:20:23,741 --> 00:20:25,902

Yeah, I can't put my foot around that.

259

00:20:25,902 --> 00:20:33,198

I want to be more established because then I think not just because it gives me more

financial freedom, which is something I'm definitely striving for.

260

00:20:33,198 --> 00:20:37,944

it's, I guess it then becomes an authority thing because I think, well,

261

00:20:37,944 --> 00:20:49,641

That's probably the piece that's more at play here is how can I go out and show other art

or provide platforms for other artists when I haven't done it to the level I wanted for

262

00:20:49,641 --> 00:20:50,542

myself yet.

263

00:20:50,542 --> 00:20:58,901

I feel like I need to be in that position on my own before I can open the doors for other

people so I can speak with more authority on it.

264

00:20:58,901 --> 00:20:59,829

Does that make sense?

265

00:20:59,829 --> 00:21:00,971

let's fast forward.

266

00:21:00,971 --> 00:21:05,244

You are at a place where you think, yeah, I've got authority.

267

00:21:05,244 --> 00:21:09,388

What things are in place that are giving you all that authority that you're seeking?

268

00:21:09,388 --> 00:21:22,165

think it's just going back to what we said before it's that where I've done consistent the

levels of work consistently for however many months I've got an order book that's bursting

269

00:21:22,165 --> 00:21:25,941

at the seams is a nice word that springs to mind but you know

270

00:21:25,941 --> 00:21:38,685

I think what is liberating in business, and saying no to work, being in a position to say

no to work is a really, I have found that a really liberating place to be

271

00:21:38,685 --> 00:21:45,330

I think, if I was literally too busy to take on more stuff, then yeah, like I said, that's

when I know,

272

00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:48,902

I have kind of mapped this out a little bit earlier on in the year.

273

00:21:48,902 --> 00:21:50,603

it's been a bit of a rollercoaster year really.

274

00:21:50,603 --> 00:21:54,567

it started off, with this new focus, things took off.

275

00:21:54,567 --> 00:21:56,487

It was a really good summer.

276

00:21:56,487 --> 00:21:58,930

We went away for the whole of August.

277

00:21:58,930 --> 00:22:01,492

I felt like I managed that really well.

278

00:22:01,492 --> 00:22:09,697

I stacked work up, I got the message out months in advance, I'm gonna be away in August,

don't try and reach me in August because I ain't gonna be here.

279

00:22:09,697 --> 00:22:11,580

If you want something doing you need to get it booked in.

280

00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:14,032

I didn't really look at my emails at all.

281

00:22:14,032 --> 00:22:14,732

It was brilliant.

282

00:22:14,732 --> 00:22:18,246

When I got back in September, I had a load of work stacked up.

283

00:22:18,246 --> 00:22:22,200

It was all great, but I didn't do any pipeline stuff.

284

00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,314

And then I did all the work and I got to October and it was like tumble.

285

00:22:26,314 --> 00:22:32,710

And I'm just about kind of crawling out the other side of that now, but nowhere near where

I thought I...

286

00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:41,126

I'm gonna try not to shud myself here, but where I thought I would be at this moment in

time, although things are, things are slowly turning again.

287

00:22:55,333 --> 00:22:41,077

288

00:22:41,077 --> 00:22:44,413

I wondered is your business seasonal?

289

00:22:44,413 --> 00:22:45,885

It's hard to say.

290

00:22:45,885 --> 00:22:52,406

Historically, when I was more focused on B2C, then this time of year would be busy.

291

00:22:52,406 --> 00:22:57,046

people want Christmas presents.

292

00:22:57,157 --> 00:22:58,002

a good Christmas present.

293

00:22:58,002 --> 00:23:01,063

But I'm not noticing that so much.

294

00:23:01,063 --> 00:23:03,363

the housing market is an interesting place at the moment.

295

00:23:03,363 --> 00:23:06,777

I haven't had success with any of the big agents.

296

00:23:06,777 --> 00:23:15,129

to even engage in a conversation with me, But there's a huge movement going on in the

state agency at the moment with independent or...

297

00:23:15,129 --> 00:23:19,225

freelance agents and they're the ones that get it.

298

00:23:19,225 --> 00:23:25,802

I'd like to do is try and tap into one or two of those networks of those likes of EXP or

TA.

299

00:23:25,802 --> 00:23:28,424

I haven't managed to break into a kind of big one.

300

00:23:28,424 --> 00:23:31,097

It's just been individual agents so far.

301

00:23:31,097 --> 00:23:32,686

How do you do that?

302

00:23:32,686 --> 00:23:34,890

I have not found the answer to that one yet.

303

00:23:34,890 --> 00:23:36,523

I've got lots of social proof.

304

00:23:36,523 --> 00:23:43,173

Most of my work up until probably a month ago was almost exclusively across Instagram.

305

00:23:43,173 --> 00:23:47,898

all of the good stuff happens in the DMs in Instagram really.

306

00:23:47,898 --> 00:23:55,364

I've been able to follow and connect with many, many, many sort of independent agents over

the course of the last sort of 12 months or so.

307

00:23:55,364 --> 00:23:57,148

So I will message them there.

308

00:23:57,148 --> 00:23:59,518

I have a kind of four step.

309

00:23:59,518 --> 00:24:01,278

process, suppose.

310

00:24:01,778 --> 00:24:03,958

I DM them on Instagram.

311

00:24:03,958 --> 00:24:06,261

I can see whether or not they've read it or not.

312

00:24:06,261 --> 00:24:09,844

If they've read it and they respond, that's brilliant, but that doesn't really happen.

313

00:24:09,844 --> 00:24:12,895

That maybe happens like one in 10 in the first message.

314

00:24:12,895 --> 00:24:15,416

Then I'll send them another message a week or so later.

315

00:24:15,416 --> 00:24:21,695

If that one doesn't land, I will switch up my approach a couple of weeks after that, and I

will send them a direct link.

316

00:24:21,695 --> 00:24:29,731

to a piece of content that I've done with another agent who I think is similar to them and

say, hey, have a look at this reel, have a look at this portrait I did for this agent,

317

00:24:29,731 --> 00:24:32,766

thought you might like it, gives you a little bit of an insight into what I do.

318

00:24:32,766 --> 00:24:36,832

I've been switching to trying to find them on LinkedIn, which was a platform I avoided

319

00:24:36,832 --> 00:24:46,823

It's constant kind of motivational speech and bigging up of one another and that's not my

vibe at all.

320

00:24:46,823 --> 00:24:50,265

That being said, a lot of agents hang out there.

321

00:24:50,265 --> 00:24:52,256

It is a space they spend time.

322

00:24:52,256 --> 00:24:55,913

And actually having gone back there for the first time in sort of two or three years,

323

00:24:55,913 --> 00:24:57,974

He's not quite as bad as it used to be,

324

00:24:57,974 --> 00:25:06,489

When you're reaching out to these agents, your step process presumably is looking for,

that of them as a client.

325

00:25:06,669 --> 00:25:18,097

What would happen if you're reaching out to them was more research-based in terms of, can

I ask you a question, know them, where they hang out?

326

00:25:18,097 --> 00:25:22,184

Yeah, mean, that's an interesting, yeah, that would be a different take.

327

00:25:22,184 --> 00:25:23,968

that's what I'm trying to.

328

00:25:23,968 --> 00:25:28,381

do to an extent at the moment is to just switch up the approach from time to time.

329

00:25:28,381 --> 00:25:36,319

this whole idea of outreach is kind of what is sort of traditional kind of sales outreach

stuff was like really alien to me a year ago.

330

00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:38,371

It's not something I had to do at all.

331

00:25:38,371 --> 00:25:42,451

in 16 years of running my recruitment business, it was all word of mouth.

332

00:25:42,451 --> 00:25:44,523

I never had to do any real sales.

333

00:25:44,523 --> 00:25:52,100

It's worked with the individual agents, but breaking into those bigger pieces, the whole

networks or the...

334

00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:59,995

the sort of larger high street agent types of people have not figured out the code for

that one yet.

335

00:25:59,995 --> 00:26:00,467

So.

336

00:26:00,467 --> 00:26:02,380

there's two things here, isn't there?

337

00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:10,313

One, you have developed a new way of networking and lead generation and chasing.

338

00:26:10,313 --> 00:26:11,154

That's great.

339

00:26:11,154 --> 00:26:15,357

And like you say, that's working for you to a point.

340

00:26:15,834 --> 00:26:21,517

So what can you take from your previous experience with that word of mouth stuff?

341

00:26:21,517 --> 00:26:23,368

What were you really good at?

342

00:26:23,491 --> 00:26:32,666

I've been much better this year at sort of keeping up to date across the socials and being

present there to try and encourage people to come to me rather than me having to go out to

343

00:26:32,666 --> 00:26:33,496

get them.

344

00:26:33,496 --> 00:26:43,096

I had a somewhat scarring conversation early on in the year with the founder of one of

these networks, which is still lives in my head, Rent Free Now.

345

00:26:43,096 --> 00:26:46,868

even though I've tried my best to coach myself out of it.

346

00:26:46,868 --> 00:26:50,001

it was someone I could add real value to what they do.

347

00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:51,781

I messaged her, she messaged me back.

348

00:26:51,781 --> 00:26:53,312

She was really interested.

349

00:26:53,312 --> 00:26:56,463

We got to setting a call in the diary.

350

00:26:56,463 --> 00:26:58,095

The call didn't happen,

351

00:26:58,095 --> 00:27:04,895

I didn't want to leave it there obviously, I wanted to kind of make it feel as though,

that's cool, don't worry, you know, come back whenever you're ready and try to sort of

352

00:27:04,895 --> 00:27:05,746

play it down.

353

00:27:05,746 --> 00:27:08,477

Wasn't getting anywhere with any sort of subsequent messages.

354

00:27:08,477 --> 00:27:15,441

She had a mobile phone on her contact, so I thought, right, I'm just gonna ring a number,

like, that's the old fashioned way.

355

00:27:15,441 --> 00:27:17,633

When I first started working.

356

00:27:17,633 --> 00:27:22,256

I'm just going to ring her and say, I know it's a cheeky, but anyway, I rang her, went

terribly.

357

00:27:22,256 --> 00:27:27,241

She told me she, she more or less put the phone down on me straight away, said she felt

like she was being pestered.

358

00:27:27,241 --> 00:27:30,001

And was, that was the sort of end of that really.

359

00:27:30,001 --> 00:27:31,746

That was a year ago actually,

360

00:27:31,746 --> 00:27:33,199

She's in my ecosystem.

361

00:27:33,199 --> 00:27:35,120

a founder of one of these networks.

362

00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:42,091

even though I'm not kind of following her directly, she's coming up in all of these other

people's feeds and posts I see.

363

00:27:42,091 --> 00:27:53,417

So I reach back out to her again a couple of weeks ago to sort of build bridges and just

say, look, I know I maybe came on a bit.

364

00:27:53,417 --> 00:28:01,543

too strong or I can't remember exactly how I worded it but I spent ages figuring out what

I was going to say to her and she's read these messages but she's not responded to me

365

00:28:01,543 --> 00:28:11,583

which is fine but it's a long game of just sort of proving that I'm here to stay and my

intentions are honourable, is that the right phrase?

366

00:28:11,583 --> 00:28:19,200

I do think there's a real tightrope you've got to walk with letting people know that

you're out there and what you do and that you love what you do and you're really good at

367

00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:31,540

it but you can't say it too much and too loud and too often because that then becomes

really off-putting so to, pardon, to them like it's a real

368

00:28:31,540 --> 00:28:34,672

You know, when somebody comes on too strong, will you give it a rest kind of thing?

369

00:28:34,672 --> 00:28:40,683

Like, it's whole idea, giving people enough space, but not too much space.

370

00:28:40,683 --> 00:28:42,815

And that kind of push and pull, isn't it?

371

00:28:42,815 --> 00:28:45,927

Hey, I'm here, I'm doing cool stuff, you might be interested.

372

00:28:45,927 --> 00:28:52,822

and then give them the space to come to you, but if they don't, when they go or they get

distracted by something else, it's just a little, you know, tap on the shoulder, by the

373

00:28:52,822 --> 00:28:58,538

way, I'm still here, but don't keep on doing that because eventually, will you please stop

tapping me on the shoulder?

374

00:28:58,538 --> 00:29:00,301

I know you're there, just leave me alone.

375

00:29:00,301 --> 00:29:05,693

folk are quite good, aren't they, at unsubscribing from stuff and muting and un following?

376

00:29:05,693 --> 00:29:15,961

I think I've got it in my head that she thinks I'm this awful human being She probably

doesn't even give me a second thought she's living rent free in my head and I'm building

377

00:29:15,961 --> 00:29:18,193

this picture of what she thinks of me.

378

00:29:18,193 --> 00:29:23,052

I know rationally and on intellectual level, I know it's complete nonsense.

379

00:29:23,052 --> 00:29:24,744

It's all fabrication.

380

00:29:25,705 --> 00:29:27,850

how do you rewrite that narrative in your head?

381

00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:32,680

Because the story that you're telling me is the narrative that you're telling yourself.

382

00:29:32,787 --> 00:29:40,179

attempt last week or the week before is to try and press that reset button on this and

rewrite the narrative.

383

00:29:40,179 --> 00:29:44,421

And I've worked with two of her really, really high flying agents.

384

00:29:44,421 --> 00:29:46,086

I did a really of work with them.

385

00:29:46,086 --> 00:29:54,916

And I was like, right, I'm going to show her this and she'll, she knows I work with these

two guys under her umbrella and they like, can trust me and all of that stuff.

386

00:29:54,916 --> 00:29:58,474

then that's a big flag that says, actually, this guy must be all right.

387

00:29:58,474 --> 00:29:59,867

He's not that

388

00:29:59,867 --> 00:30:10,515

you want this person to appreciate you and you're not comfortable with leaving it with the

idea that they don't like your work and your approach.

389

00:30:10,515 --> 00:30:11,596

it's not about the work.

390

00:30:11,596 --> 00:30:13,429

It's about me, I think.

391

00:30:13,429 --> 00:30:14,591

it feels like...

392

00:30:14,591 --> 00:30:17,474

I feel like she could be a real door opener.

393

00:30:17,474 --> 00:30:24,404

I think if I could get her on board, it would change the face of my business almost

overnight because they've two or 300 agents.

394

00:30:24,404 --> 00:30:27,417

I'm working with probably about half a dozen of them already.

395

00:30:27,417 --> 00:30:31,304

I've done good work with people in her circle.

396

00:30:32,379 --> 00:30:38,960

What makes this individual the most important individual in this network?

397

00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:47,785

she's the founder So in head, if she goes to their board meeting or whatever and says,

look, I've got this guy Darren, he's done work with these agents under our umbrella

398

00:30:47,785 --> 00:30:48,205

already.

399

00:30:48,205 --> 00:30:50,648

Yeah, he's doing really good stuff.

400

00:30:50,648 --> 00:30:51,800

They love what he does.

401

00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,823

Let's offer this out to our network.

402

00:30:54,823 --> 00:30:58,737

Let's get him to my dream, I think, not my dream.

403

00:30:58,737 --> 00:31:05,088

I know whether I would do this, I would do it really nervously, but they have an annual

conference once a year.

404

00:31:05,088 --> 00:31:11,791

Let's get Darren to the annual conference, give him a little stand there, show him all the

portraits he's done for our agents in our network already.

405

00:31:11,791 --> 00:31:19,151

then all of a sudden I've got this huge kind of, this huge opportunity in front of us.

406

00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:21,910

Darren, so this conference does this conference happen every year?

407

00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:24,409

Okay.

408

00:31:24,409 --> 00:31:26,787

it's definite, but I could do some more digging.

409

00:31:26,787 --> 00:31:29,633

But this is the kind of idea that's twirling around in my head.

410

00:31:29,633 --> 00:31:33,250

Get that event, get in front of all of those.

411

00:31:33,451 --> 00:31:38,857

Chasing the conference rather than the person probably sounds more productive at this

point in time, yeah?

412

00:31:38,857 --> 00:31:40,168

like the in my head.

413

00:31:40,168 --> 00:31:44,094

I've made her the gatekeeper to that that may or may not be true, I suppose.

414

00:31:44,094 --> 00:31:53,864

I mean, you know, there's a whole world of psychology that could explain why two people do

or do not hit it off You don't know what day that person was having when your phone call

415

00:31:53,864 --> 00:31:59,905

And it was really interesting using words like, I was a bit cheeky and I'm thinking, well,

no, because you'd agreed to have a meeting

416

00:31:59,905 --> 00:32:01,566

you were just following up.

417

00:32:01,566 --> 00:32:10,480

the narrative to me is you reached out to somebody, you agreed to have a conversation,

that conversation didn't happen, you reached back out to say can we have the conversation,

418

00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:16,495

they went I wasn't expecting it this way and that's not about you, that's about them and

where they were.

419

00:32:16,495 --> 00:32:21,880

So I think that retelling of the narrative is quite important for your goal journey

because

420

00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:32,836

if that sitting rent free in your head that is going to potentially hold you back from

getting into this network because as you said you've made this person into a gatekeeper so

421

00:32:32,836 --> 00:32:34,220

I think just you know

422

00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:43,943

closing that story off, making a new narrative of I reached out to somebody, wasn't the

right time for her, doesn't mean that I'm not right for that network, doesn't mean that

423

00:32:43,943 --> 00:32:51,823

I'm not right to be at their conference, doesn't mean that I haven't got a space there,

and actually I've got social proof because I've worked with agents in that network.

424

00:32:51,823 --> 00:32:52,447

Yeah.

425

00:32:52,447 --> 00:32:54,529

your goal has the two parts.

426

00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:59,714

You've got the goal of growing and the goal of growing is increasing that B2B.

427

00:32:59,714 --> 00:33:04,127

And one of the ways to increase the B2B is you want to get into this network.

428

00:33:04,127 --> 00:33:06,790

So we're getting really specific on this goal now.

429

00:33:06,790 --> 00:33:09,963

So a very specific goal to get into the network.

430

00:33:09,963 --> 00:33:15,516

Yeah, it feels like a long way off, but it could just be one conversation, couldn't it?

431

00:33:15,516 --> 00:33:16,028

So.

432

00:33:16,028 --> 00:33:18,321

could be or it could be many conversations.

433

00:33:18,321 --> 00:33:28,569

How would you feel if you, I don't know, in the new year you have conversation with

somebody about this, not the person you've already spoken to and it feels like another

434

00:33:28,569 --> 00:33:30,093

closed door, how would that feel?

435

00:33:30,093 --> 00:33:32,929

Yeah, I think it would probably...

436

00:33:32,929 --> 00:33:35,952

I can tell what I would say in my own head now.

437

00:33:35,952 --> 00:33:37,185

Yeah, I told you.

438

00:33:37,185 --> 00:33:38,259

I wasn't going to work.

439

00:33:38,259 --> 00:33:43,845

Can we give you permission to tell yourself that you can fail 10 times with something?

440

00:33:44,124 --> 00:33:44,404

yeah.

441

00:33:44,404 --> 00:33:46,215

And again, I'll get back to what I thought.

442

00:33:46,215 --> 00:33:48,155

I can do all this in my own head.

443

00:33:48,155 --> 00:33:49,113

I can rationalise all.

444

00:33:49,113 --> 00:33:51,985

On an intellectual level, I understand all of this stuff.

445

00:33:51,985 --> 00:33:54,940

It's, yeah, maybe it's the saying out loud, I suppose.

446

00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:56,653

It's verbalizing these things.

447

00:33:56,653 --> 00:33:58,755

Maybe I need to do a bit more of that, I guess.

448

00:33:58,755 --> 00:34:04,837

I need some, I need to work on how I turn that intellectual knowledge into actual thoughts

and feelings.

449

00:34:04,837 --> 00:34:05,779

Does that make sense?

450

00:34:05,779 --> 00:34:06,330

It does.

451

00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:15,453

I'm really excited to follow your journey because I think talking it through is possibly

the thing that you need.

452

00:34:15,453 --> 00:34:26,268

you've got a really solid idea about where you are, where you want to go, you're very

certain and determined about certain aspects of this, know, growing is the priority, not

453

00:34:26,268 --> 00:34:27,209

the expansion.

454

00:34:27,209 --> 00:34:40,090

You've got an idea of who you might work with, you know, you've niched or you are niching

specific industry and so you're right at this point of you know what it is that you want

455

00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:42,851

to do next, this goal is so real

456

00:34:42,854 --> 00:34:44,408

and visual to me.

457

00:34:44,408 --> 00:34:54,754

that's the biggest achievement of the year so far really is that I think on January 1st,

still, knew that like I was drawing nice houses and people liked them, but I didn't

458

00:34:54,754 --> 00:35:02,389

really, I don't think I knew with any certainty who my audience was or what I wanted to do

with it, where I wanted to go.

459

00:35:02,389 --> 00:35:05,085

I just wanted to do as many of them as I could.

460

00:35:05,085 --> 00:35:10,599

And I would just sort of throw it all out there and know, hope something bit.

461

00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:11,250

I think.

462

00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:14,501

That is the big success story of this year so far.

463

00:35:14,501 --> 00:35:16,062

I haven't made a fortune.

464

00:35:16,062 --> 00:35:21,023

And it's not, I come back to that because it is about that to an extent.

465

00:35:21,764 --> 00:35:25,124

don't wanna make, well, I wanna make as much money as I can do, but it's not about that.

466

00:35:25,124 --> 00:35:30,137

I wanna get a foundation in place so I don't feel like I'm chasing my tail all the time.

467

00:35:30,137 --> 00:35:31,898

So the financial thing, I'm not.

468

00:35:31,898 --> 00:35:34,131

I try and say I'm ignoring it, but I'm not.

469

00:35:34,131 --> 00:35:41,008

I can't get away from measuring my success by what my bank balance looks like and it

doesn't look I'm in a really fortunate position.

470

00:35:41,008 --> 00:35:44,062

My wife is a, you she's the breadwinner of the house.

471

00:35:44,062 --> 00:35:45,514

She looks after us all.

472

00:35:45,514 --> 00:35:49,438

I do a lot of the picking up of the pieces of the childcare and all of that type of stuff.

473

00:35:49,438 --> 00:35:57,027

there's all this kind of, I mean, we'll get really, we can get really into the weeds here

with the patriarchy and all of that kind stuff.

474

00:35:57,027 --> 00:36:04,177

that is a big part of the sort of self-talk at the moment is.

475

00:36:04,177 --> 00:36:09,312

step up, get your act together, start providing.

476

00:36:09,312 --> 00:36:12,832

Yeah, I mean, even saying it out I think it's an interesting one.

477

00:36:12,832 --> 00:36:13,464

again,

478

00:36:13,464 --> 00:36:24,021

My podcasts generally talk about that women's view and that women's lived experience and

so I'm so excited to have men on the podcast.

479

00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,305

is it like the other way around, I suppose, most of time?

480

00:36:28,391 --> 00:36:36,553

You know, being feminist and noticing feminist practice doesn't mean that men have it easy

at all.

481

00:36:36,553 --> 00:36:46,189

And we know that, you know, men have a really hard time and the very same practices and

systems and structures that trip women up, trip

482

00:36:46,189 --> 00:36:51,000

if we're to go into all of that, what goes on in my head is it's like, well, I can do all

of that.

483

00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,960

I can beat myself up about that and get all kind of riled up.

484

00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,740

But then you're like, well, look at you.

485

00:36:55,740 --> 00:37:05,478

You're a white middle-aged bloke with all of, you know, so privileged, so much, you know,

so much going for me that I don't have to.

486

00:37:05,478 --> 00:37:07,081

kind of work for.

487

00:37:07,081 --> 00:37:10,087

So many privileges granted to me.

488

00:37:10,087 --> 00:37:11,940

What the hell are you whinging about?

489

00:37:11,940 --> 00:37:15,343

So I'm not whinging about that really, but...

490

00:37:15,343 --> 00:37:16,267

Well, yes, I am.

491

00:37:16,267 --> 00:37:17,082

Clearly I am.

492

00:37:17,082 --> 00:37:25,456

I think what you're saying is what's important to you and I What's important to you is to

be profitable and grow.

493

00:37:25,456 --> 00:37:35,278

is proving to myself, proving to myself first, but proving to the outside world that what

I'm doing here actually is working.

494

00:37:35,278 --> 00:37:42,289

It really, it's legitimate and it's not a play thing.

495

00:37:42,289 --> 00:37:43,740

I'm not a hobbyist here.

496

00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:47,191

I've got a business and it works.

497

00:37:47,191 --> 00:37:48,531

That's the big thing.

498

00:37:48,531 --> 00:37:49,502

I'm not, you know...

499

00:37:49,502 --> 00:37:52,279

little Darren just drawing houses in his back garden.

500

00:37:52,279 --> 00:37:57,942

I am, totally am that, but you know, it's a real proper business.

501

00:37:57,942 --> 00:38:06,393

You are that and you are doing the other stuff, which is the real value that's bringing to

your B2B customers.

502

00:38:06,393 --> 00:38:20,808

And proving that your work is legitimate, know, part of that goal that we're exploring is,

you know, how do you get yourself into that network in that place where legitimacy is

503

00:38:20,808 --> 00:38:25,751

then, that feels like it's a marker for you of legitimacy in some sense.

504

00:38:26,019 --> 00:38:27,312

For sure, yeah.

505

00:38:28,163 --> 00:38:33,401

with most goals we talk about, time scales, actions.

506

00:38:33,401 --> 00:38:39,948

You're already on the path on the sales stuff and your leads and your CRM.

507

00:38:39,948 --> 00:38:46,520

So you've started some of this goal already, do you want to start properly now or in

January?

508

00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,196

Well, we're in it now, aren't we?

509

00:38:49,196 --> 00:38:52,720

I've never been one that's really ever subscribed to New Year's resolutions, if I'm

honest.

510

00:38:52,720 --> 00:39:01,960

if I say we would catch up in four weeks and it'll be via email rather than a recorded

conversation, but if I say, right, these were the three things that you were looking at

511

00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:10,319

and focused on for your goal in four weeks time, what three things are coming to mind as

goal actions as a result of this conversation for you?

512

00:39:10,319 --> 00:39:20,389

Okay, well, I guess first of all, establish whether or not this conference that I've

conjured up in my mind actually So I know that there's another network of agents, EXP,

513

00:39:20,389 --> 00:39:21,900

that you might have heard of.

514

00:39:21,945 --> 00:39:26,749

They definitely do have a conference because I've seen it happened in Miami last week, I

think.

515

00:39:26,749 --> 00:39:31,845

um So they're a big global network uh of agents.

516

00:39:31,845 --> 00:39:34,992

Can I find out when it is and where it is?

517

00:39:34,992 --> 00:39:37,605

And then I can build a plan towards that.

518

00:39:37,605 --> 00:39:39,219

That feels like something that's

519

00:39:39,219 --> 00:39:51,919

I'd like to get at least in the next four weeks at least one new one new client on board

in terms of one one Commission with somebody I've never worked with before I've got a few

520

00:39:51,919 --> 00:39:54,980

that are kind of in the mix They've been sort of dangling.

521

00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:56,852

that would be that would be good goal

522

00:39:56,852 --> 00:40:08,364

I've also got, I've got two of my clients at the moment who have come, I've been, I made a

switch back in sort of June, or sort of tried to create a new offer and it was bundle

523

00:40:08,364 --> 00:40:09,474

packages.

524

00:40:09,546 --> 00:40:13,420

Try and iron out the, again, the peaks and troughs.

525

00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:20,337

So buy, you know, five or 10 or 20 portraits off me in a package, you get 12 months to use

them.

526

00:40:20,337 --> 00:40:20,904

Alright.

527

00:40:20,904 --> 00:40:23,698

And then, so I managed to sell two of those.

528

00:40:23,698 --> 00:40:26,812

I would like to get one of them to buy another one.

529

00:40:26,812 --> 00:40:29,156

I think that's a good achievable goal.

530

00:40:29,156 --> 00:40:31,010

and a third one.

531

00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:35,350

I don't know if you've got any ideas on what a good third one would be off the back of our

conversation.

532

00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:43,744

My reflection on this is that a lot of this is on your shoulders, is I've got to do this,

I'm doing this on my own.

533

00:40:43,744 --> 00:40:47,487

And a lot of founders and business owners are exactly the same.

534

00:40:47,487 --> 00:40:59,018

And I wonder, I know that you're not there yet in terms of collaboration and you want to

grow first, but reaching out to a similar type of artist with an aesthetic to even have a

535

00:40:59,018 --> 00:41:02,652

exploratory conversation might be a way of building

536

00:41:02,652 --> 00:41:07,929

community or at least starting that in your goal.

537

00:41:07,929 --> 00:41:11,910

You don't have to sign anybody up, you don't have to work with them, you don't have to

share work,

538

00:41:14,822 --> 00:41:13,443

probably over last two or three months.

539

00:41:13,443 --> 00:41:24,520

I've been just kind of bookmarking posts and from different artists that have popped up in

my feed and thinking, I've got something to refer back to when I'm ready.

540

00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:29,084

So I'm trying to do a little bit of groundwork as far as that type of thing is concerned.

541

00:41:29,084 --> 00:41:30,126

Yeah, but maybe I could

542

00:41:30,126 --> 00:41:32,077

try and speak to one of those.

543

00:41:32,077 --> 00:41:42,162

That might be an action I suppose is got already and see if there's someone there that

kind of stands out and might be worth dropping a message to.

544

00:41:42,162 --> 00:41:47,405

So when I email you in four weeks time, I'll be saying, Darren, we had a great

conversation.

545

00:41:47,405 --> 00:41:49,137

You're fascinating.

546

00:41:49,137 --> 00:41:51,779

Really excited about where you're already going.

547

00:41:51,779 --> 00:41:54,431

But what did you find out about the conference?

548

00:41:54,431 --> 00:41:58,044

How did your current sales pipeline unfold?

549

00:41:58,044 --> 00:41:59,546

Anything interesting there?

550

00:41:59,546 --> 00:42:03,669

And who have you reached out to as a fellow artist?

551

00:42:03,669 --> 00:42:04,661

Does that sound?

552

00:42:04,661 --> 00:42:06,151

That sounds good, yeah.

553

00:42:06,151 --> 00:42:08,233

It has been fascinating talking to you.

554

00:42:08,233 --> 00:42:16,242

You're so interesting and I think your experience in business definitely shows in terms of

how you've approached this.

555

00:42:16,242 --> 00:42:21,650

And there's certainly a lot that think listeners will take from this, how focused you are.

556

00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:23,517

Is there anything that you'd like to add?

557

00:42:23,517 --> 00:42:24,148

Yeah.

558

00:42:24,148 --> 00:42:25,268

No, I don't think so.

559

00:42:25,268 --> 00:42:34,628

think I was conscious that I didn't want to be so self-aware as it getting recorded and

because it will be so cringy to listen back to.

560

00:42:34,628 --> 00:42:39,779

But I definitely switched off that in my head.

561

00:42:39,779 --> 00:42:41,319

So yeah, it all came out.

562

00:42:41,319 --> 00:42:41,979

So thank you.

563

00:42:41,979 --> 00:42:51,299

You asked really interesting questions and I'm interested to listen to a few more of the

podcast as well and see what other people came up with.

564

00:42:51,365 --> 00:42:53,682

it'll be fascinating to see where it goes.

565

00:42:53,682 --> 00:42:56,886

want to pair you up with maybe one or two of my other guests.

566

00:42:56,886 --> 00:43:06,115

So what I'll do is I'll get you to listen to their episodes and then you'll come together

and we'll have a group discussion and I was hoping that between you, you could give each

567

00:43:06,115 --> 00:43:08,367

other support on your goals.

568

00:43:08,597 --> 00:43:10,078

support group.

569

00:44:05,633 --> 00:43:10,781

Yeah

570

00:43:10,781 --> 00:43:14,218

Thank you for being so open with me.

571

00:43:14,218 --> 00:43:16,803

And I know I asked lots of questions yeah.

572

00:43:16,803 --> 00:43:17,465

Yeah.

573

00:43:17,465 --> 00:43:19,919

was really, really cool conversation.

574

00:43:42,256 --> 00:43:20,181