1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:03,289 Adam Outland: Welcome to the Action Catalyst podcast. 2 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:15,500 This is Adam Outland, and today we're speaking with Ken Coleman nationally syndicated radio host, often referred to as America's career coach, as well as the number one bestselling 3 00:00:15,504 --> 00:00:15,950 Ken Coleman: author. 4 00:00:15,954 --> 00:00:17,390 Welcome Ken. 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:18,530 Good to talk with you. 6 00:00:18,904 --> 00:00:19,055 We're 7 00:00:19,055 --> 00:00:20,345 Adam Outland: glad to have you back. 8 00:00:20,494 --> 00:00:32,074 This is actually your second time on the program, and I wanted to jump straight into a meaty topic that's on a lot of our minds right now, which is the so-called great resignation. 9 00:00:32,405 --> 00:00:42,394 Many people are switching jobs, leaving the workforce entirely, or just waiting on the sidelines, but what can employers be doing right now to drive retention in today's. 10 00:00:43,220 --> 00:00:44,840 Ken Coleman: Yeah, it's a really great question. 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:58,009 So if we're talking about retention, you better be showing your team that there's a ladder where they are, because I think leaders need to hear this, the the leader mentality, and it's about getting the right person in the right spot. 12 00:00:58,340 --> 00:00:58,670 Right? 13 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:00,140 So I'm a big football fan. 14 00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:03,410 We're in the middle of football season, so you've got a 53 man roster on the. 15 00:01:04,069 --> 00:01:14,960 And so every year they go through an arduous process by which they take 90 some players or whatever it is when they start training camp, and then they whittle it down to a 53 man roster. 16 00:01:15,229 --> 00:01:20,120 And the great GMs and the great coaches are ones that assemble the right talent. 17 00:01:20,210 --> 00:01:25,550 And so the leader's role is, do I have the right people on the right seat of the bus? 18 00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:26,990 That is the primary role. 19 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:30,600 However, a blind spot for leaders is when they don't. 20 00:01:31,250 --> 00:01:32,270 How do I keep them? 21 00:01:32,570 --> 00:01:49,100 One of the ways that we, we keep them is what you've addressed in the question and retention is about making sure that they see an opportunity to grow, not just in their skill set, not just in their experience, not just financially, but in their role. 22 00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:51,259 More influence, more of a challenge. 23 00:01:51,289 --> 00:01:59,630 All those other things matter tremendously, but at the end of the day, we are creatures of progress and, and so you've gotta make sure that you give these. 24 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,860 A ladder to a future that they see contribution growing. 25 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,010 And I think if you do that, you're gonna have people stay with you much longer. 26 00:02:08,430 --> 00:02:09,210 That's powerful. 27 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,040 Adam Outland: And that's right in alignment with our own values here at the Southwestern family of companies. 28 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:24,350 There's people walking the halls that have been here for 40 and 50 years, and so having a culture where people can seek growth and promotions happening from the ground up is so I. 29 00:02:25,144 --> 00:02:31,084 We'd love to hear a bit more about your background, cuz I know that your path didn't begin in the same direction as where you 30 00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:31,565 Ken Coleman: are today. 31 00:02:32,015 --> 00:02:39,454 Yeah, well, you know, this book, uh, was written from my own experience, um, because I was somebody who was very much ambitious. 32 00:02:39,515 --> 00:02:45,755 Certainly intentional, feeling like I was on purpose in my professional life in that I thought I was. 33 00:02:46,475 --> 00:02:49,955 Called to go into public service in the area of politics. 34 00:02:50,435 --> 00:03:00,905 And uh, the short answer is I'm in my early thirties and I realized that my fire, my passion. 35 00:03:01,370 --> 00:03:04,310 For political work was waning big time. 36 00:03:04,459 --> 00:03:12,950 And so I began to really examine that and came to the conclusion that that was not the, the direction that was no longer the professional pinnacle. 37 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:21,079 And so that is a very unsettling thing when certainly when you've been focused on it and headed that direction and on your way for quite some time. 38 00:03:21,709 --> 00:03:29,000 And so as I began the process of discovering what my unique role was, where I was supposed to contribute profess. 39 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:38,079 I then began to realize that there were some similarities between public service and broadcasting in that I loved to communicate. 40 00:03:38,085 --> 00:03:39,790 I wanted to communicate publicly. 41 00:03:40,210 --> 00:03:46,570 Uh, I wanted to maximize the opportunity to influence as many people as possible. 42 00:03:46,930 --> 00:03:51,130 So as I began to walk through that, I realized that broadcasting was what I wanted to do. 43 00:03:51,130 --> 00:03:54,970 My heart reengaged that tuning fork inside my chest. 44 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,779 I was like, okay, I, I love that public performance, that public communication. 45 00:04:00,079 --> 00:04:02,000 I certainly enjoy the pressure that comes with that. 46 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,200 That's a pretty sick thing when we know that most people would rather die than speak in public. 47 00:04:06,469 --> 00:04:09,979 But I'm one of those few freaks that I get the juice man. 48 00:04:10,099 --> 00:04:11,000 And so I love it. 49 00:04:11,179 --> 00:04:19,039 So as I begin to go, okay, my heart's saying yes, then my head got involved and, uh, boy, we all know what this feels like. 50 00:04:19,070 --> 00:04:19,820 So the head starts. 51 00:04:20,539 --> 00:04:21,890 Well, you're 33. 52 00:04:22,099 --> 00:04:24,590 You don't have a degree in broadcasting. 53 00:04:24,650 --> 00:04:27,080 You've never done any real broadcasting. 54 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:34,099 And so I, I was really paralyzed for about a year to two years and sat on the sidelines, kind of having a pity party. 55 00:04:34,099 --> 00:04:36,590 And then one day I realized I'm just gonna have to get out and do this. 56 00:04:36,590 --> 00:04:41,270 Nobody's sitting around thinking how they can help Ken Coleman, you know, nobody woke up today going, I think that Ken Coleman. 57 00:04:41,924 --> 00:04:43,005 Got some raw talent. 58 00:04:43,005 --> 00:04:46,544 I think he'd be great in broadcasting and I can make that happen for him. 59 00:04:46,604 --> 00:04:47,625 Where is his number? 60 00:04:47,775 --> 00:04:49,185 That doesn't happen. 61 00:04:49,424 --> 00:04:54,854 And so I got to a point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to face rejection, I'm gonna have to face fear. 62 00:04:54,859 --> 00:04:57,914 I'm gonna have to face doubt and pride, and I'm gonna have to step out and do it. 63 00:04:57,919 --> 00:05:02,234 So I just started doing stuff and I signed it for broadcasting class sports broadcasting class. 64 00:05:02,570 --> 00:05:08,450 And got there the first day and there were a bunch of 20 somethings and I was 33 at the time. 65 00:05:08,450 --> 00:05:10,340 I think 34, I can't even remember. 66 00:05:10,580 --> 00:05:15,260 And it was two weeks into the class before the guys realized I wasn't an instructor. 67 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,530 So, uh, it was kind of humbling, but it was also great. 68 00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:23,450 Got me the opportunity to do my first live broadcast, which was high school football, play by play on the internet. 69 00:05:23,750 --> 00:05:28,289 Two people listening to that first broadcast, the kid in the booth next to me and my. 70 00:05:28,724 --> 00:05:31,125 The kid was so nervous he didn't know what was happening. 71 00:05:31,455 --> 00:05:35,565 And uh, Stacy, even if she didn't like it, she wouldn't tell me she's that amazing. 72 00:05:35,955 --> 00:05:42,885 Adam Outland: But of course today, you're now the host of the Ken Coleman show, where you hear from people every day looking to land their dream job. 73 00:05:43,155 --> 00:05:46,185 In talking to your listeners, what are some of the commonalities? 74 00:05:46,185 --> 00:05:47,474 What are most people 75 00:05:47,474 --> 00:05:48,044 Ken Coleman: looking for? 76 00:05:48,330 --> 00:05:49,740 Yeah, so that's a really great question. 77 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:54,000 I think it falls into three major buckets of people that are listening the show and calling the show. 78 00:05:54,390 --> 00:06:02,340 The first group are people who are, who really don't know clearly, or they don't believe firmly, that they know what they're supposed to do with their life. 79 00:06:02,340 --> 00:06:06,840 So it's, we could call them unclear or confused. 80 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:07,770 That's the first bucket. 81 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:09,510 I'm not sure what I wanna do with my life. 82 00:06:09,510 --> 00:06:13,380 Ken, the second group, they know what they want to do. 83 00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:16,790 Pretty darn good idea, but they don't know how to get. 84 00:06:17,420 --> 00:06:20,720 And then the third group is very interesting. 85 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:24,980 Uh, they know what they want to do or what they're supposed to do. 86 00:06:25,490 --> 00:06:27,410 They know how to get there. 87 00:06:27,740 --> 00:06:34,130 But fear, finances, or family or past failure is keeping 'em on the sideline. 88 00:06:34,655 --> 00:06:35,915 So that group is really interesting. 89 00:06:35,915 --> 00:06:40,295 It's a smaller group of the three, but those people know what they're supposed to do and how to get there. 90 00:06:40,295 --> 00:06:46,625 But, uh, either, uh, they have to make a move and, and family would never go for it, or family would be upset. 91 00:06:46,895 --> 00:06:51,185 Or maybe they're fi they're in debt and their finances are a mess, and so they're like, I don't think I could do it. 92 00:06:51,395 --> 00:07:00,155 And then pass failure, whether it was moral failure or they started a version of the dream years ago and it failed spectacularly and they're just, they're afraid to come back out of the. 93 00:07:00,830 --> 00:07:01,760 Okay, let's 94 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,159 Adam Outland: start with the people who are lacking vision. 95 00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:05,479 How do you begin with 96 00:07:05,479 --> 00:07:05,929 Ken Coleman: that group? 97 00:07:06,380 --> 00:07:11,000 Yeah, so these people are in stage, one of the seven stages that I unpack in the book. 98 00:07:11,005 --> 00:07:13,520 And stage one is get clear so they're not clear. 99 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,900 We gotta get 'em clear and here's how you do it. 100 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:16,039 There's three indicators. 101 00:07:16,219 --> 00:07:18,349 Think of it as a a panel on our car. 102 00:07:18,349 --> 00:07:21,619 When we all get in the car, we see all the gauges and everything. 103 00:07:21,619 --> 00:07:27,140 And for our own personal dashboard as a human being, there are really three indicators. 104 00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:30,245 The first is, That's what you do best. 105 00:07:30,245 --> 00:07:37,505 Really simple, and we're talking specifically hard skills and then people skills, otherwise known as soft skills, right? 106 00:07:37,715 --> 00:07:41,525 And so we want to get really clear on what we do best. 107 00:07:41,555 --> 00:07:43,235 I don't wanna know what your average. 108 00:07:44,015 --> 00:07:48,515 Talents are, uh, I, I really don't care what your awful talents are, right? 109 00:07:48,515 --> 00:07:50,555 Where you just, oh, you're just, you're abysmal. 110 00:07:50,885 --> 00:07:51,995 Uh, those are weaknesses. 111 00:07:52,115 --> 00:08:00,905 Those are good to know about, but those don't indicate anything about our purpose other than to say these are areas we weren't created to spend a lot of time in. 112 00:08:01,115 --> 00:08:04,745 All right, so that's the first indicator talent, what you do best. 113 00:08:04,745 --> 00:08:05,105 Second, I. 114 00:08:05,905 --> 00:08:06,414 Passion. 115 00:08:06,655 --> 00:08:10,105 Now, this is defined as work you love to do. 116 00:08:10,735 --> 00:08:13,755 So this is again, for specifics. 117 00:08:13,825 --> 00:08:15,655 What work do you look forward to? 118 00:08:16,225 --> 00:08:19,554 I mean, the task, the function, a role. 119 00:08:19,825 --> 00:08:25,875 So you leaders out there, you love leading, you just love leading people, and all that encompasses that. 120 00:08:25,905 --> 00:08:27,835 When you think about opportunities to. 121 00:08:28,505 --> 00:08:29,795 You have high emotion. 122 00:08:30,155 --> 00:08:30,905 Watch this. 123 00:08:31,115 --> 00:08:35,375 When you are in the midst of leading, you have high emotion, time stands still. 124 00:08:35,375 --> 00:08:41,135 You feel the juice, and then you are devoted to it, to the point that you want to get better. 125 00:08:41,705 --> 00:08:46,745 Um, you, you, you can't imagine a scenario where you aren't leading a team and leading people. 126 00:08:46,745 --> 00:08:48,125 That's high emotion, high devotion. 127 00:08:48,365 --> 00:08:54,949 And now the last indicator is, Now this is results that matter deeply to you. 128 00:08:55,219 --> 00:09:01,670 This is where the results of the work and your personal values have a really tight connection. 129 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:02,390 Okay? 130 00:09:02,540 --> 00:09:05,719 So what results do you want to contribute to the world? 131 00:09:06,319 --> 00:09:07,040 So that's mission. 132 00:09:07,310 --> 00:09:13,400 They all three come together and they show us where we were meant to contribute. 133 00:09:13,939 --> 00:09:17,209 So when I use what I do best, To do work. 134 00:09:17,209 --> 00:09:21,230 I love passion to produce results that matter deeply to me, mission. 135 00:09:21,620 --> 00:09:27,560 And they come together like a big giant neon arrow, and that's a direction, a compass. 136 00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:31,610 And it says here in the world, the marketplace, the world at work. 137 00:09:31,699 --> 00:09:32,510 This. 138 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:35,420 Is where I was created to contribute. 139 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:37,220 And here's what's beautiful about this. 140 00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:38,690 It's not one job. 141 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,490 It's not one silver bullet. 142 00:09:40,530 --> 00:09:40,950 Woo. 143 00:09:41,390 --> 00:09:42,890 What if I make the wrong decision? 144 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:51,020 It's not that because in your sweet spot where all three talent, passion, and mission aligned, there are multiple jobs, career paths, and even dream jobs. 145 00:09:51,020 --> 00:09:52,910 And so that's what I say to that person. 146 00:09:53,060 --> 00:09:56,540 Let's get clear on the work that you were created to do. 147 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,750 We created an As. 148 00:09:59,255 --> 00:10:08,615 In that first stage, it's called the get clear Career Assessment, and we show you where you score on the universal talents, the universal passions, and the universal missional results. 149 00:10:08,825 --> 00:10:19,145 And then we fill out a purpose statement for you, and then we give you professional possibilities so that now you've got a litmus test, a filter by which you make all future professional decisions. 150 00:10:19,150 --> 00:10:22,715 Now we move to stage two, getting qualified, and then you move on to stage three. 151 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,065 Get connected for opportunities. 152 00:10:24,065 --> 00:10:28,175 Stage four, when opportunities come to you through connections, you can get started stage. 153 00:10:28,915 --> 00:10:33,895 Now we're working on the ladder, climbing that mountain, if you will, that stage five get promoted. 154 00:10:34,165 --> 00:10:37,735 Stage six is get the dream job, and then what do you do when you're on top of that mountain? 155 00:10:37,975 --> 00:10:39,475 Well, now your focus changes. 156 00:10:39,775 --> 00:10:45,445 And now I've, I'm looking out and the dream expands and I, in stage seven give myself away. 157 00:10:45,445 --> 00:10:46,945 I'm not working for income anymore. 158 00:10:46,945 --> 00:10:47,425 It's there. 159 00:10:47,665 --> 00:10:48,685 Influence is there. 160 00:10:48,685 --> 00:10:49,235 It's all about impact. 161 00:10:49,735 --> 00:10:53,785 So that's a quick snapshot of the seven stages and how all that fits in, and 162 00:10:53,785 --> 00:10:55,315 Adam Outland: all of that is in your book. 163 00:10:55,375 --> 00:10:56,785 What, what's the name of your book again? 164 00:10:56,785 --> 00:10:57,025 For our 165 00:10:57,025 --> 00:10:57,325 Ken Coleman: listen. 166 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,920 Sure it's from paycheck to purpose. 167 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:07,520 Those four words really address the emotions that every human experiences around work think about it, right? 168 00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:08,900 From paycheck to purpose. 169 00:11:08,905 --> 00:11:13,340 Paycheck is the provision we all have gotta pro provide for ourselves or for others. 170 00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:17,000 But then we all long to make a difference, contribution. 171 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,500 And that's the purpose piece. 172 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:22,880 And so, uh, we want people to realize that you can make the income that you desire and the. 173 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:24,110 Now 174 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:34,730 Adam Outland: over the years, you've had some very notable guests on your show from US Presidents, Tim Tebow, Tony Haw, countless others who have been a few of your absolute favorites. 175 00:11:35,210 --> 00:11:40,100 Ken Coleman: Wow, that's, uh, that's, that's my favorite list is pretty, pretty long. 176 00:11:40,105 --> 00:11:41,690 I could probably do a top 10. 177 00:11:41,780 --> 00:11:45,980 I, I think the names that pop out first and foremost at the very top of the list, coach Mike Sche. 178 00:11:46,415 --> 00:11:55,025 First major interview I ever did, and to this day, uh, an hour sitting on the floor of Cameron Indoor Arena, coach Kort, that was pretty amazing. 179 00:11:55,355 --> 00:11:56,435 I love coaches. 180 00:11:56,645 --> 00:11:57,785 I love Pat Summit. 181 00:11:58,025 --> 00:12:01,685 The, you know, the greatest, one of the greatest coaches of all time, Peyton Manning. 182 00:12:01,745 --> 00:12:03,515 That was, that was a really fun interview. 183 00:12:03,515 --> 00:12:05,915 What a serious, serious competitor he is. 184 00:12:06,190 --> 00:12:07,450 Uh, committed to greatness. 185 00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:10,390 Certainly enjoyed interviewing condo, Aliza Rice. 186 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:14,560 We're talking about a brilliant woman that served our country in so many unique ways. 187 00:12:14,770 --> 00:12:16,120 Certainly a history maker. 188 00:12:16,270 --> 00:12:17,730 I recently interviewed George W. 189 00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:21,070 Bush, probably one of the most enjoyable interviews I've ever done. 190 00:12:21,075 --> 00:12:34,270 He's top three, not just because he was a former president, but because of how comfortable in his own skin he is, uh, despite the fact that he's seen and heard things that a fraction, a teeny tiny fraction of, of, of the population we'll ever see in. 191 00:12:35,090 --> 00:12:36,020 That was enjoyable. 192 00:12:36,020 --> 00:12:41,150 Mike Row from, uh, dirty Jobs, probably one of the most enjoyable interviews I've ever done. 193 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:43,160 Uh, just from a conversation standpoint. 194 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:46,730 I was telling some friends the other night at dinner, they were asking me a similar question. 195 00:12:47,060 --> 00:12:53,180 I put Malcolm Gladwell on the list because of all the people I've interviewed and I've interviewed two presidents and US Senators and all the things. 196 00:12:53,675 --> 00:12:57,305 The most intimidating person I've ever interviewed was Malcolm Gladwell because of how brilliant he is. 197 00:12:57,305 --> 00:12:59,314 He's just such a smart guy, but he's very humble. 198 00:12:59,525 --> 00:13:00,665 Malcolm is up there. 199 00:13:00,995 --> 00:13:14,314 It's amazing how, while these names that we kind of marvel at of how you know well known or accomplished, they are, the reality is they're just men and women like us, and to truly have a conversation like that as powerful, powerful experience, I'm very. 200 00:13:15,095 --> 00:13:15,245 You 201 00:13:15,245 --> 00:13:16,415 Adam Outland: mentioned Pat Summit. 202 00:13:16,564 --> 00:13:22,564 I'm not sure if you know this, but one of the groups under the Southwestern Family of Companies is the Pat Summit Leadership Group. 203 00:13:22,895 --> 00:13:24,635 Ken Coleman: Do you want a great Pat Summit story? 204 00:13:24,845 --> 00:13:25,685 Absolutely. 205 00:13:26,045 --> 00:13:26,165 Okay. 206 00:13:26,165 --> 00:13:31,895 So this is from my interview and, uh, I don't know how many times she told the story, but your audience will love, it's a great leadership lesson. 207 00:13:31,895 --> 00:13:32,975 So I'll give you the quick version. 208 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:39,265 So I asked her one time, I said, uh, What was one of the most valuable lessons you learned early on as a young coach? 209 00:13:39,265 --> 00:13:42,355 Cuz she took the job at Tennessee, I believe, at 22 or 23. 210 00:13:42,355 --> 00:13:43,045 It was one of the two. 211 00:13:43,045 --> 00:13:48,895 So she's really young, she's only a couple years older, uh, than maybe the freshman and maybe a year older than her seniors. 212 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:51,205 And she told me about her first game. 213 00:13:51,325 --> 00:13:53,335 It was against Mercer and they lost. 214 00:13:53,605 --> 00:13:57,175 And uh, she called her dad cuz she always did after every game. 215 00:13:57,415 --> 00:13:58,165 And he answered the phone. 216 00:13:58,170 --> 00:13:59,935 He said, all right, just like that. 217 00:13:59,995 --> 00:14:01,345 She said, daddy, what do you think? 218 00:14:01,645 --> 00:14:08,570 He goes, well, You need to get you some race horses because you don't take donkeys to the Kentucky Derby. 219 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,100 And that's all he said. 220 00:14:10,130 --> 00:14:12,590 And, uh, that was the end of that conversation. 221 00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:18,110 And she said it stuck with her, you know, you know, you gotta have thoroughbreds to win big. 222 00:14:18,140 --> 00:14:25,100 And as a leader your, I think most important responsibility is to, is to assemble talent, the right talent. 223 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:26,960 So that's a fun little, uh, little story. 224 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,290 I love to. 225 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:28,790 So let's talk a bit 226 00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:30,620 Adam Outland: about another one of your books. 227 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:36,530 The one question which asks the reader what they would wanna know from the people they admire the most. 228 00:14:36,739 --> 00:14:38,390 What's the secret to a well crafted 229 00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:38,839 Ken Coleman: question? 230 00:14:39,365 --> 00:14:46,265 Yeah, so, you know, the secret to a good interview is also the secret to a great conversation, which I'm a huge fan of connections. 231 00:14:46,265 --> 00:14:51,365 And you know, we talk a lot about that, that stage three in the new book, from paycheck to purpose get connected. 232 00:14:51,365 --> 00:14:53,824 So what's the, what's the art of connection? 233 00:14:54,005 --> 00:14:59,375 And it's really taken on the posture of a student, can you transform yourself into a human sponge? 234 00:14:59,615 --> 00:15:04,535 And so, you know, in my interviews, my goal and my posture. 235 00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:12,160 Is one of you have so much value to give to the audience, and I'm here to get as much of that out of you as possible. 236 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,750 So that's, that's the mindset. 237 00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:17,260 And so that, that, you know, informs the questions that I ask. 238 00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:21,819 So like with a patch summit, you know, you know, you gotta first know who your audience is. 239 00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:28,210 And so if you're a leader and you're doing an interview for your company or your team, whatever you, even though you know it's your company, you gotta sit down and ask. 240 00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:31,729 What does the audience want to know and need to know right now? 241 00:15:31,729 --> 00:15:34,430 The want to know is, you know, what do they wanna know when they hear from somebody? 242 00:15:34,430 --> 00:15:35,270 That's very influential. 243 00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:38,900 So there's a little bit of the entertainment appetite that you're looking at there. 244 00:15:38,905 --> 00:15:46,130 Now, the need to know is okay, they need to hear some leadership lessons from Pat Summit because she's in such a unique thing. 245 00:15:46,135 --> 00:15:57,859 So, You know, you're starting with that and that informs the rest of the conversation because I now know that Pat Sum has, has experience, and then she has skill that can be transferable to the audience. 246 00:15:58,010 --> 00:15:59,300 And so how do I maximize that? 247 00:15:59,569 --> 00:16:01,520 And so that's a simple answer to that. 248 00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:04,849 That's that's how you make sure that you're doing a really good interview. 249 00:16:05,285 --> 00:16:06,935 And that's powerful for any 250 00:16:06,935 --> 00:16:07,685 Adam Outland: leader as well. 251 00:16:07,775 --> 00:16:12,515 Anyone who wants to draw the best out of their employees and be authentic and honest with them about how to 252 00:16:12,515 --> 00:16:13,025 Ken Coleman: improve. 253 00:16:13,234 --> 00:16:14,405 Yeah, that's absolutely right. 254 00:16:14,555 --> 00:16:17,344 And again, I mentioned this briefly, but I wanna highlight really quick. 255 00:16:17,525 --> 00:16:19,084 That's the key to great conversation. 256 00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:23,915 You know, a leader to leader and you're hanging around other eagles instead of talking about yourself. 257 00:16:24,214 --> 00:16:24,995 Show up. 258 00:16:25,339 --> 00:16:30,680 And ask questions, get knowledge and wisdom, get insight. 259 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:39,649 People feel tremendously valuable when we ask them their opinion, and so you're showing that you value them and they're gonna feel tremendously valuable as a result. 260 00:16:39,649 --> 00:16:43,520 So I mean, don't, don't forget that technique in everyday conversations. 261 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:44,270 That's 262 00:16:44,270 --> 00:16:44,720 Adam Outland: great. 263 00:16:45,020 --> 00:16:51,980 So on that note, what are some of the most surprising responses you got when you were interviewing for the one question, were you ever caught 264 00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:52,099 Ken Coleman: off? 265 00:16:52,804 --> 00:17:02,214 No, I, I, you know, that that book was so thought out that the format of that book, as you know, is to reveal and showcase the power of one question to, to. 266 00:17:02,839 --> 00:17:04,099 Life changing answers. 267 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:17,690 One that sticks out to me, uh, is the Jim Collins answer, you know, and I'm, I'm asking him about why do we, as consumers want to consume great, but we as humans are so scared of doing what's necessary to do. 268 00:17:17,690 --> 00:17:18,079 Great. 269 00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:23,120 You know, the idea is, is that when you and your wife book a vacation, the this conversation ever happens. 270 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:24,980 Hey, listen, what do you think about an average? 271 00:17:26,205 --> 00:17:29,835 They got an average rating and uh, there's an average beach there. 272 00:17:29,835 --> 00:17:31,485 Or who says, man, I love our team. 273 00:17:31,485 --> 00:17:33,585 I'm so excited this year they're, they're, they're 500. 274 00:17:33,585 --> 00:17:35,385 They're five and five and we're so fired up. 275 00:17:35,685 --> 00:17:37,455 Or, let's go to a concert. 276 00:17:37,455 --> 00:17:38,115 They're okay. 277 00:17:38,115 --> 00:17:39,285 I don't really like the band. 278 00:17:39,285 --> 00:17:40,005 They're okay. 279 00:17:40,005 --> 00:17:41,265 Like, nobody says that. 280 00:17:41,445 --> 00:17:44,505 So we don't consume average, but we don't pursue greatness. 281 00:17:44,625 --> 00:17:46,095 And so that was the heart of the question. 282 00:17:46,215 --> 00:17:46,545 Okay. 283 00:17:46,815 --> 00:17:52,035 And so I asked Collins that, and as you know, he goes on to say, he goes, he, he, he recalls a story when he was. 284 00:17:52,805 --> 00:18:06,245 In a business school and a young man came up to him and said, I've got a, a fork in the road, professor Collins, uh, do I take a job with a Fortune 500 company, uh, which has got stock options, the great benefits, yada, yada, yada, super secure. 285 00:18:06,425 --> 00:18:09,575 It's a lock versus do I go start my own business? 286 00:18:10,175 --> 00:18:24,290 When the young man asked him that, he, he, he responded and said, Who's to say that the job with the Fortune 500 company is in fact that stable and he reminded the young man of how quickly Enron, which I think everybody in businesses knows the unbelievable. 287 00:18:25,264 --> 00:18:26,465 Historic collapse of Enron. 288 00:18:26,705 --> 00:18:35,105 He was basically saying if the economy tanks or there's a moral failure or there's something that goes on, all that stock can evaporate in a moment. 289 00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:40,294 And he said, betting on yourself is as safe, if not safer than working for someone else. 290 00:18:40,294 --> 00:18:43,595 And he said to me, Ken, this is what we all must face. 291 00:18:43,685 --> 00:18:48,485 And he said, we all tend to lean towards a future that is almost paint by numbers. 292 00:18:48,875 --> 00:18:50,044 And he said, there's safety. 293 00:18:50,044 --> 00:18:51,245 We think in that. 294 00:18:52,175 --> 00:18:57,725 Approach as opposed to going to a blank canvas and painting our own masterpiece. 295 00:18:58,055 --> 00:19:10,775 Therein lies why most people don't pursue greatness, and essentially what he was so phenomenal insane is, is that we would rather be safe and even potentially miserable than we would to be uncomfortable. 296 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,110 We humans would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. 297 00:19:14,110 --> 00:19:16,450 And the reason is we know what to expect with the miserable, right? 298 00:19:16,450 --> 00:19:27,159 We can bite our stick, get through it, drink our face off at happy hour on Friday, go out on the lake on Saturday, watch a bunch of football on Friday, and try to like forget everything. 299 00:19:27,429 --> 00:19:31,030 And then Sunday night comes around and, and, and we get all anxious. 300 00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:35,470 We get all nasty and miserable and we just try to make it through the next weekend. 301 00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:38,110 And that's because again, we'd rather be miserable than. 302 00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:48,110 When people weigh the costs to choose purpose over a paycheck, many people sadly, will choose the paycheck and not go for purpose. 303 00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:49,940 And it's an uphill battle, man. 304 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,210 This isn't one book's gonna solve this problem, you know? 305 00:19:53,210 --> 00:20:02,360 But we as leaders, we can help, you know, because if you get people that are on purpose in positions that they were created to fill in your company, you can't hold greatness. 306 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:03,919 So Ken, 307 00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:16,760 Adam Outland: in closing, when you're thinking about vision and purpose and you're talking to someone who's calling in and they say, man, I've been at it a while now and I'm having a tough time staying motivated, what would you say to someone who's hit that slump and needs to 308 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:17,300 Ken Coleman: recharge? 309 00:20:18,004 --> 00:20:21,004 The first thing I would tell them is, is you're not having a problem with motivation. 310 00:20:21,004 --> 00:20:22,264 You've lost sight of your why. 311 00:20:22,565 --> 00:20:24,274 You don't have a motivation issue. 312 00:20:24,514 --> 00:20:25,985 You have a confusion issue. 313 00:20:25,985 --> 00:20:28,054 You have a distraction issue. 314 00:20:28,625 --> 00:20:34,205 And so I would tell them the retreat to Clarity, and I would tell them to go back to the process that I teach, that I unpacked. 315 00:20:34,504 --> 00:20:36,514 Get clear, write a purpose statement. 316 00:20:36,514 --> 00:20:39,125 If you've never written one before, take the Get Clear Career assessment. 317 00:20:39,455 --> 00:20:49,045 Read the first two chapters of this new book, because when I retreat to Clarity, I see my why again, see, vision is the, where vision is. 318 00:20:49,045 --> 00:20:51,235 The mountaintop purpose is the why. 319 00:20:51,835 --> 00:20:53,335 Why do I wanna scale the mountaintop? 320 00:20:53,695 --> 00:20:57,865 And so when we lose motivation, we have forgotten our motive. 321 00:20:57,865 --> 00:20:59,785 So the root word of motivation is motive. 322 00:21:00,085 --> 00:21:11,605 When we watch these legal dramas on television or in the movies and the lawyers, uh, that are the prosecuting attorneys, and they are trying to convince the jury that there was a motive. 323 00:21:12,949 --> 00:21:14,570 They're trying to say this is the motive. 324 00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:18,290 And if they can establish motive, then guilt can be attached. 325 00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:22,490 And essentially it's going, why would that person do this bad thing? 326 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:23,540 Well, here's why. 327 00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:28,699 And when they prove the why, and so we, so it's like the root word of motivation is motive. 328 00:21:28,790 --> 00:21:31,040 So I just gotta be able to say what's my motive? 329 00:21:31,550 --> 00:21:34,220 And when I get back to clarity, I see my motive. 330 00:21:34,429 --> 00:21:41,070 I reattach, reconnect to my why, and then you're not gonna have a problem getting outta bed the next. 331 00:21:41,780 --> 00:21:51,770 But I can tell you that the person who is, is lacking motivation has been distracted or is confused. 332 00:21:52,490 --> 00:21:56,180 And I'll give you a practical example so that it doesn't feel like I'm teaching in platitudes. 333 00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:57,880 I get calls all the time from teachers. 334 00:21:58,925 --> 00:22:02,405 Elementary school teachers, middle school teachers, high school teachers in the public school system. 335 00:22:02,915 --> 00:22:06,275 And I'm not bashing the public school system, I'm just telling you what's happening on the show. 336 00:22:06,275 --> 00:22:07,475 I'm telling you what's happening in real life. 337 00:22:07,985 --> 00:22:09,335 And by the way, go look up the data. 338 00:22:09,335 --> 00:22:10,355 You can go check me on this. 339 00:22:10,715 --> 00:22:13,445 Uh, teachers are quitting at alarming rates. 340 00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:21,325 And the reason is is cuz the system is jacked up, they spend more time doing paperwork, um, they're unable to discipline. 341 00:22:21,365 --> 00:22:24,725 They have all this pressure for standardized test score. 342 00:22:25,415 --> 00:22:37,445 To be able to keep their jobs so that you know, or the school gets funding for them to be able to keep their job and they're not focused on the thing that they got into it for, which is just the instruction and the guiding of young human beings. 343 00:22:38,255 --> 00:22:44,195 Yet when they got into it, their why was really clear, but now the why's been covered up by all this other stuff. 344 00:22:44,315 --> 00:22:53,375 And so what has happened is they've gotten distracted because the system makes 'em do all these other things and they don't even get to spend hardly any time on the joy. 345 00:22:53,555 --> 00:22:56,015 And so they get distracted to the point where they get confused. 346 00:22:56,225 --> 00:23:00,245 And so that's an example where distraction and confusion are the perfect storm. 347 00:23:00,635 --> 00:23:03,695 And now teachers call me going, Ken, I thought I was supposed to be a. 348 00:23:04,450 --> 00:23:11,980 But I've lost my passion and I have no idea where to go, and so I've gotta uncover what's caused the confusion and the distrac. 349 00:23:12,425 --> 00:23:19,175 And then at the heart of it, I go, I'm not saying that you have to stay in the environment you're in, but you've not lost your passion for instruction. 350 00:23:19,475 --> 00:23:21,635 It's really instruction is what you love. 351 00:23:22,025 --> 00:23:23,615 Turning on the light bulb for people. 352 00:23:23,795 --> 00:23:27,095 So you can do that in the corporate environment, in HR corporate training. 353 00:23:27,305 --> 00:23:34,355 You can do it on the community college or college level where the students actually wanna be there and then they begin to see that they didn't lose their passion. 354 00:23:34,715 --> 00:23:36,465 They got distracted, they got confus. 355 00:23:36,889 --> 00:23:37,310 Wow. 356 00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:42,830 Adam Outland: Yeah, that adds a lot of clarity about avoiding outside influence and really controlling the controllables. 357 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,879 This has been a, a really great conversation and, and I really appreciate your time. 358 00:23:47,090 --> 00:23:50,120 Where's the best place for our listeners to reach out to you 359 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:51,290 Ken Coleman: or pick up your books? 360 00:23:51,649 --> 00:23:57,860 Thank you for asking Ken coleman.com is the best way to get the book connect with me on social media there as. 361 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,480 Uh, and then find out how to listen or watch the show. 362 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:07,530 We're on YouTube podcast, Sirius XM and 75 radio stations around the country. 363 00:24:08,044 --> 00:24:08,314 Well, there 364 00:24:08,314 --> 00:24:09,274 Adam Outland: you have it, Ken. 365 00:24:09,274 --> 00:24:10,774 Thanks again for joining us on The Action 366 00:24:10,774 --> 00:24:11,314 Ken Coleman: Catalyst. 367 00:24:11,735 --> 00:24:12,365 Anytime. 368 00:24:12,365 --> 00:24:13,564 Always enjoy being with you.