Is Epcot the best full day park? Should Genie be eliminated? Should Disney Cruise Line swap Pirate Night for something else? And who's the greatest Disney villain of all time? These are the kind of questions we tackle this week on in or out, the segment where I bring on guests to debate the big

and

small and fun Disney topics and where you get to play from home. So think about your own answer as you listen and let me know are you in or are you out? Hello my friend and welcome to WW Radio, your guide to the Disney parks and experiences around the world. I am Lou Mongello and this is episode number 843. And whether this is your first time listening or you've been with me since the very beginning, thank you for being here and welcome home. Couple of quick things before we dive in. Please come be part of the community and conversation over in the clubhouse@wwradio.com clubhouse watch and chat with me this and every Wednesday at 7:30pm Eastern for WWE Radio Live on Facebook and YouTube. And get a weekly dose of Disney in your inbox plus a free gift when you sign up for my free weekly newsletter over@www.radio.com and when you're ready to plan your next Disney vacation. Trust my friends over@m MouseFanTravel.com Just as I have for more than 18 years, they offer custom personalized vacation planning services that are completely free to you. It's who I use, it's who I trust. It's who I recommend. You can find them over@m MouseFanTravel.com and as always, my friend and you are my friend whether we have met yet or not. If you like the show, please rate review and more importantly, share it with a friend. It is the best way to help others discover the magic and grow our community. And also don't forget to connect and chat with me on social I am at Lou Mongello on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. But for now, sit back, relax and enjoy this week's episode of the WW Radio Show. Welcome back to another round of in or out segment where loving Disney is only half the fun. The other half is going to be debating it. Because I think one of the best parts about being a Disney fan is just how passionate we all are. We love the magic, but it doesn't always mean that we see it the same way. And I think that's what makes it fun. And because of that, the in or out segment was born. And joining me this week are some longtime friends, fellow Disney parks and cruise line fans, fellow entrepreneurs and returning speakers to my Momentum event this year. You may know him from episode number 537, Native American culture in the Disney Parks and Movies. He is Paul Gowder. He is the founder of powwows.com way back 1995, right, the world's largest, longest running website and community about and for Native American culture and indigenous arts and heritage. Somebody else who like me is focused on community and again, somebody who like me goes way, way back. Paul, welcome back.

Thank you sir. Looking forward to it.

It is good to see you again and also back on the show again. I've known him for a long, long time from creator and marketing conferences. He is a content creator. He is a live streamer, a visual marketing and AI expert who teaches others how to leverage AI for good, not evil. And he's also the host of Creator News Live. He is of course the one, the only Jeff C. Thank you sir.

Excited to be here.

You look surprised at your introduction. You're like, oh, wait, I was wondering.

If you get my name right because you know, you, you said it like wrong for like 20 years. So that's okay.

But I did, I, I, Jeff Shea, you know, whatever.

Like I'll answer to anything.

Well, good. I'm happy you're going to answer to anything because today you are going to answer to anything because we're going to play a little in or out. And this is very simply how it works. I'm going to make a statement. Could be about the parks, the movies, Disney plus Disney Cruise Line and you as well as you, our friend is sitting at home or at work, wherever. I'm not judging. I'm going to tell us whether you are in, you agree or out. You don't. And then you'll have about 30 seconds ish or longer to make your case, defend your stance and maybe even try to sway someone to your side. And again, if you're listening at home, I want to hear your thoughts as well. Are you in or are you out? You can share your hot takes over in the clubhouse. I'll post all these questions there at www. Radio.com clubhouse or you can be called the voicemail. Be heard on the air at 407-900-9391. And in preparation for this, I wrote a lot of prompts just for you guys. So I'm going to spin the non existent virtual wheel and see where it lands first. Jeff, you seem nervous. Nervous?

I am not as well versed as on Disney stuff as like Paul and you are. So I will just fake it is what I'll do. Like I do everything else in life.

Well, Paul was like, why are you inviting Jeff? And now I understand. Well, nervous first time? No, I've been nervous lots of times. What movie?

See, See? We don't even know.

This is not going to go.

This is not bode well for the.

Only be the second time I ever did not air an episode of the show. One day I'll tell the story about the other one that I didn't. All right, I'll. Let's keep it. We'll start simple for Jeff's sake. And Jeff, you can go first and then Paul. The best storytelling in any Disney Parks attraction can be found in Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind. Are you in or are you out, Jeff?

I am in. And the reason so the second run up would be Rise because it's good. Tron is disappointing. So yeah, I would say yes because it just really does. So I just took my wife for the first time like a week ago. She had never been on it. She loved it like we wrote it twice. It was amazing. I think it does a great job. So I will say in.

Paul, I am out.

Oh yeah, it's wrong right off the bat.

It's probably the most fun you'll have on an attraction in a Disney park. But I think for me the best storytelling. And as a Star wars fan, it hurts me to not say Galaxy's Edge, but Radiator Springs racers, even just walking to the attraction at night, there's. I don't think there's any more immersive feeling than going through Cars Land at night and then getting on that attraction. I feel like I am actually in the movie there. I think that's the best, best, best they've done ever. Love it.

Yeah. So I am going to. I'm going to agree with one of you, obviously, and not so strongly disagree with the other because Paul, I think you're right and I think, you know, we, we when we think about storytelling, I think we. It's not just sort of the retelling of a story for people who are familiar maybe with the story or with the intellectual property. It was interesting that both the ones that you guys chose are IP based as opposed to original attractions like a, you know, a mystic manor or yeah, pirate. Something like a haunted mansion. So I think to your point, Paul, the very first time I walked into Cars Land, I think that story, that attraction begins before you even get to the queue. I think it extends as you exit the queue. I think Rise does a good job of that too. I think the story begins in the land. But I think even if you are not a Cars fan or are familiar with the story, I think the way it leads you through this sort of three act play and has these multiple sort of wow moments, I just think from an attraction perspective too, it is visually stunning. There's a little bit of excitement, there's a gamification of it. Like I think it ticks all of the boxes in terms of what makes for good storytelling. What else, what any other ones that you think sort of would at least be in the argument.

So Rise. Yeah, I mean I think Rise is, is, is in that list. I think it, it is the most complete story. I guess I just don't, I don't feel like I'm in the Star wars movie on. I'm walking up to that ride.

So in my defense when I said I have never been to Cars Land, which I'm going to next year, so I, I don't have that experience. So I mean, I'm sure I'll change my mind because Paul's always right. But yeah, so the other one, because I. Once again, when you go with somebody who hasn't been for a while and you experience it through their eyes, I think Ratatouille does a good job. Like even in the queue going up to it. It's very short ride compared to some of the other ones. But I think they do a good job of making you feel like Paul's point of making you feel like you're in the movie, that's a really strong one for me. I think you feel like you're in there and experiencing the characters and the scenes really, really deeply in that one.

So yeah, yeah, I think some of the other ones that work well and clearly we, the three of us need to like a buddy comedy, we need to do around the world tour so you can experience all the different attractions and all the Disney parks and then we can revisit that question. But I also, I also think part of what makes a strong storytelling attraction is when it's not based on a familiar story or familiar IP and it can tell an original story. Like I will use, you know, again, I know it's in Hong Kong but it's the first one that comes to mind. I think Mystic Manor is in the argument for possibly the very best overall attraction. Like a few. All things being considered. And one of these days, we'll have to figure out a way to have some folks who've seen all the different parks talk about and maybe debate what is the quote unquote, best attraction or the best storytelling? Because it's completely an unfamiliar story. It's not even akin to the other haunted mansions that you have around the world. And I think the way it brings you in and instantly sort of makes you fall in love, not just with the environment, but even with these characters that you're unfamiliar with, I think are some of the hallmarks of really, really, really good storytelling. So, all right, let's move on. Unless you have anything else you want to add.

I was just gonna say storytelling. You reminded me. We went to Disney in Paris a couple years ago, and somebody had told me to ask the story of the Haunted Mansion there.

Was.

I. I love the experience of what happened. I wish the story was incorporated more into the attraction. But we asked a cast member and they spent five minutes, like, explaining this complete backstory, gave us all these details what to look for in the attraction. I thought that was a really cool thing, but it. That's not something every. Every guest gets because they don't know to ask for it. But that was. That was a really cool thing as far as a nice story being told.

So I.

That.

That was almost one. And I had literally just come from Disneyland Paris a couple weeks ago, and it was almost one that I put on there because 1. The story of this haunted. And I think Phantom Manor is the best of all of the brother and sister Haunted Mansion attractions. I think in terms of the exterior, the queue, the additional scene that does not exist in any of the other haunted mansions. I think there's a little bit of a scary factor to this that the other ones don't have. And to your point, Paul, Phantom Manor is not a standalone attraction because that story, which is very deep. I am not a merch guy. I'm not a souvenir guy. They actually sell a souvenir book about the Haunted Mansion, which is not just about how it's made, but the story, because you're right, it is very, very, very well thought out. More importantly, it connects the story of the haunted of Phantom Matter connects to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. It connects to the entire environment of Frontierland. So if you want to dig a little deeper and peel back some of the layers of that onion. There is this very deep, rich, cohesive story that, that you can put those pieces together if you know where to look or if you just buy the book.

Yeah, that's really cool. I like the way they do it. Same thing with what they're doing now on the ships and the, what is it? The Adventures. Not Adventures Club, but the Adventure Society or whatever it's called.

Yeah, the sca. The Society, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something that. And I think they're still making the Disney plus show. I mean, again, there is this. Yeah, there are little pieces of the sca, and we did a show about it a while back around the world and on the cruise ships. And I think it's not something that is necessarily. It's sort of hiding in plain sight. Like it's there if you know where to look for it, but it's not something that's very clear. I think there's great opportunity to tell more of those SCA stories and bring those characters to the forefront, because they're even here in Walt Disney World, if you know where to look. Jock Lindsay's Hangar bar. I'm looking at you. You can find evidence of the SCA sort of scattered about. And I think there's a method to the madness in terms of laying the foundation for all these stories to come together, not just in the parks, but possibly on the small and maybe even on the big screen as well. All right, let's move on again. I'll keep it simple before we start getting a little bit deeper and we'll stick specifically to Walt Disney World. Tell me, Paul, first, are you in or out? Epcot is the best overall. Walt Disney World park or for a full day experience.

Oh, I'm out on that one. I mean, first of all, I, I, I, I have to give Magic Kingdom the nod because I have a daughter that works in Magic Kingdom and she would kill me if I didn't give her park the nod. But with, what is it, like, over 40 something attractions in magic Kingdom? I mean, you can't do it all in one day EP for me. So I go to Epcot, like for a full day. I'm never going for, like here. I'm going to hit all the attractions. Like, we theme our days. Like, if we're going to flower and garden or food and wine, it's. And it's still never a full day for us. But if you do Magic Kingdom and you're trying to hit some attractions, that is a full long day to, to knock all of that out.

Jeff.

So I will Say, gosh, as much as I love Epcot, I would. I'll be out as well, because I. But I always go. Like Paul said, like, I usually go. Food and wine is usually when we hit it. And so that is a full day. And with the new rides, I think it is. But, you know, and it depends. It's all seasonal. Like, it depends on where you are in life and where you're hitting the festivals and all that stuff. What park will be a full day? I mean, for us, usually, you know, Animal Kingdom is a half day, and we. We do that. But I'm a Star wars nerd, so I can spend just a day inside of, you know, Galaxy's Edge. So, yeah, I'm out. I'm out on that one, too. Even much I love Epcot's one of my favorite parks. But I'm just. I would disagree.

Is it because you both think that it just needs more, quote, unquote, things to do? It needs more attractions. It needs more to occupy your days, especially if there is not a foodie festival going on, which is not very often these days.

And it's a slog to walk it, like, and you're in the state. You're getting beat down by the sun. If you're up the top, like, and you're like, gosh, we got to get down there to France. Like, oh, my gosh. You know, so. And like, sometimes, depending on what the goofy fast pass have to do, like, okay, you're here. Then you got to walk all the way across the other one to get that ride. And then it's just kind of. It's kind of crazy, and it just seems like there's a lot of wasted space. I know that they're refurbishing stuff and things are coming, but I'm like, it feels like it just felt like some of the paint was peeling a little time because we spent a lot of time right by the. I forget what it is. The inside of where Soren is, the restaurant just cooling off for a little bit because we were hot and it just seemed worn. And I love that pavilion. And so anyway, that's just my random thoughts. Like, I love it, but it needs a refresh.

But I think also, like, if you start and go around the world, when you complete that, you feel like you're done. So if it took you two hours, you kind of feel like, okay, all right, we're. We're out Reno. So it's hard to, like, go and spend all morning in. It's not future world anymore, but the Front of the park and then you go and spend another couple hours going around the world and then you feel like you've completed something. Whereas like Magic Kingdom, you can complete all of Fantasy land, head over to another land and then you come back to the castle and you're like, oh my God, we still have this, this, this, this do. Yeah, it just doesn't feel like a place where I'm gonna go and do a, you know, commando style, let's hit it at rope drop and then we're gonna be there until the fireworks finish. We just never have toured it that way.

Well, and only playing devil's advocate when you say completed your way around the world, I think that's a broad stroke of the brush. Right, because sure, sure is it, you know, for you. And I'm sort of assuming or presuming, you know, completing your way around the world is just making the loop. Right. You're sort of doing drive bys of most of the pavilions where if you're a new or first time guest or you just love the parks, how many times are you walking by each of those pavilions and going in and exploring all the way to the back of China and going through the shop and seeing all the shows. So it can be longer than the two hours or know hour, however, depending on how much you want to do. Like, when's the last time, you know, anybody saw oh, Canada? It's not even O Canada anymore, it's Canada. When's the last time you saw the Canada? You know, walked into the back and saw. You want to talk? First of all, you want to. Jeff, you want a place to go cool off, go walk through the. Walk through the gardens and past the waterfall into that like outdoor. It's cool and it's covered and it's shaded and it's really, really nice there, especially in the middle of the summer. But again, how many times are you going to see the Canada show? How many times are you going to see Impressions to France? How many times are you going to see the show in China? But I will also be out and agree with you. Like I think if I was picking a park to spend an entire day, a lot of people, you know, they look at my pear shaped physique and like, oh, clearly it's Epcot for the foodie festivals, but it would be Magic Kingdom. I think Magic Kingdom is still from not just a sentimental nostalgic perspective, but just the place that I still enjoy wandering and exploring the most. I think there's a huge repeatability factor to 99% of the attractions there. And while the food there might not necessarily compete with some of the stuff that you can get in Epcot, I think for an overall full day experience, it's going to be Magic Kingdom for me as well. It will never be Disney's Animal Kingdom in August. Those words will never come out.

So we would do, like, and it depends, like, when my daughter and I go together, like, after we go to Momentum, a lot of times we'll hang out and do a couple days at Disney, and a lot of times we'll do two days at Epcot because she's a foodie and she wants to try every single thing, the pickle shake, all the stuff. That's her thing. And we have fun, we go around. But when my wife and I went, we got a little tired, and she would stop at the American and I would go and get her food and bring it back. And I was like, the. The food runner. And so it changes, I think, who you with, what you're. What you're trying to do. But, yeah, I think, like, if people are going for the first time, like, I would. I always tell them, do Magic Kingdom take two days so you don't feel rushed and you're going to miss rides if you try to do it all in one day. I just think that two days, if you've never been there before, that's the perfect time so you don't feel rushed and you can enjoy the time with your kids. Because sometimes the happiest place on Earth, if you see some of them parents, it ain't that. Right. You know, like, it's like, Holy cow, Dr. Spock, where are you?

Magicalmeltdowns.com right here you go. To post fireworks on July 4th is really where you see. I always tell people, if you want to really test the limits of your familial bonds, get the whole tribe together and then go to Walt Disney World on a holiday in the middle, middle of summer for like a week, and then see how you come out the.

Other side and you'll feel better about your parenting style as well. Like, if you want to feel better, go to Disney in August where it's hot, or go to, like, Walmart late at night or at a state fair. Like, any of those, you will feel better about yourself.

Our daughter called us about three months into her college program and said, thank you. Thank you for being good parents.

Sometimes it takes them a while to realize. Right, right.

Yeah.

They'll have that moment. Like, wow. My parents don't. Are not that awful. They're. They're pretty good. Yeah.

It's give ep, go back to Epcot. I'll give Epcot some credit for. One of the things we like about it is the. It, it is a little more free to explore in Rome, whereas I feel like when you're in a magic kingdom, it is go, go, go. One of our favorite days ever. It was on Brook's first trip. We took all the grandparents and they decided to go back. Kelly's mom and my parents decided to go back to the hotel and like, bow out for the day again. It really test your bonds, trying to make everybody go to a park every day. So the three of us went to Epcot and we just let Brooke like Rome on the World Showcase and it was that, ah, let's just relax. She met with tons of characters and we just explored and walked through the. So I will give Epcot some credit. It is a more, it can be a more relaxing, enjoyable, like just kind of choose your own adventure, not being forced to, you know, get that next reservation for the, the, you know, the next attraction on your list or whatever. So I do like it for that, but it still doesn't feel like a place I'm going to spend my entire day every time.

Yeah, I think to your point, Paul, it's, it's. What kind of day do you want to spend in the parks, right? Are you trying to just sort of like you going for the thrills, you're trying to hit as many things. You're trying to just have a, you know, a foodie type of day, whatever it is. Are you going with first timers that sort of may influence what the quote unquote right answer to that might be. But Jeff, I think you said something about Lightning Lanes and Genie plus and like, figure, you know, it's gotten a little bit more confusing and challenging to navigate the parks, especially if you are a first timer and trying to understand, you know, Genie plus and Lightning Lanes. So tell me, are you in or out? Jeff first and then, Paul, Walt Disney World should eliminate all of the paid line skipping services like Genie and Lightning Lane and just go back to the old original paper fastpass system. Are you in or are you out?

This is a hard one. So I will say, gosh, out, because I don't know if it would be better if they went back. I mean, it's hard to remember that far back. Lou, I'm not as old as you, so it's hard to think about that. But when I hate it that, like, I was there Just seriously, like a week or two ago. And I'm just like, I'm so blessed that I'm able to do this. This is such an added expense for everybody who is doing this for the first time. Like, I hate it that these people. Like a lot of people. And when I grew up, this is what we did. Like, I don't know how my parents did it. I know we ate sandwiches out in the parking lot. I just know it. And we did not stay on property for sure, but we were able to go. And I'm like, if we would have had to buy fast passes and then like, oh my gosh, that is not included. You have to buy that extra on top if you want to go to Rise or all this stuff, which I would have wanted to do when I was a kid. Like, it's just almost impossible for me to think about some of the families that I would love to experience Disney for the first time and they can't. Like, they would get there and they would be frustrated. They would wait in line for three things. In fact, this. I was speaking at an event. This lady was telling me she swore off Disney until this thing because she had a horrible experience. She went with somebody who said they knew what they were doing and they waited in line the entire day and got to write three things. Like, that's not fun. And so to your answer. I don't think it would be better, but I think they need to fix it or something. I don't like surge pricing. I don't like that kind of stuff that they do. I just. I hate it that it's an added expense, but people will pay for it. I bought it because it. You have to almost if you want to see some of the parks. And I hate that about. It's an added surcharge. So I don't know if that answer your question, but that's how I feel though.

This is a tough one. You know, I. I've seen. Is it. Lynn tested that, did a. Did a study showing that if you did away with fast passes and everything completely, that lines would actually be shorter. I don't know, but I think I'm in with a caveat. I think they need to keep it, but they need to go to the system that Disneyland had a few years ago. I. I don't remember what that was called, but. Max pass.

Yes, please.

Let's go back to that or. Or even the Tapu Tapu system that they have at Volcano Bay, which I know they just did away with, but I think that I like the paid system in that you can. You can have a little more freedom. You can. If you're willing to do it, you can skip the lines. I like all that. The paper fast pass system. I hated having to do the. The, you know, sprint at the front. You know, to get your Toy Story, Midway mania thing, you know, you had to just take off and run, leave the family behind. I don't want to go back to that. But as it currently stands, it is way too complicated, way too expensive as having a travel agent in the family, trying to see her explain to new guests how to do all of this, and then getting text messages or phone calls while people are literally standing in the middle of Magic Kingdom. Oh, my God, what do I do? It's. It's a little. It's gotten too complicated. They just need to go back to something simple. But still, it has to be a paid system. I think at this point.

Yeah, I agree. Surprisingly, I agree with both of you. Like, I'm. I'm out. Ish. I. I do think, because I think we've all had this same thing. So Disney World. I want to Disney. What do I need to know? I'm like, wait a minute, slow down. How much time do you have? Or you get an email like, hey, I'm going for the first time. Like, how do I make sure my kid gets to write everything? And I'm like, you know, I need three hours to type this out for you. I do think the system is complicated and to a certain degree, cumbersome. And I think, unfortunately, it's overwhelming for the average guest who, if you don't know what you don't know, and you're just like, oh, let's go to Disney World for the first time. We don't need to do research ahead of time because it's like going to any other park. It's not especially. Walt Disney World is its own animal. There's a certain. Again, I have this nostalgic affinity for the paper. Fast passes. There was something about having that tangible thing in your hand. I love being able to get fast passes and then pay them forward to somebody else. If I knew I wasn't going to use them, I would always try and get extras and pay it forward. And then even that started to get more complicated in terms of when you could get it and return times and things like that. I do think that a paid system works and is beneficial. And I. I changed my opinion on this as I started to travel to some of the overseas parks where I do think it's done well, and it's done much simpler, whether it's Premier Pass or Priority Pass. So for example, if, you know, I just went to Disneyland Paris and didn't have any sort of, you know, you can do like a Premier Pass which will give you like one sort of Lightning Lane access to all the attractions. Or you can buy them like you can in Tokyo. You can buy them a la carte. So we wanted to ride Tower of Terror. There was a 55 minute wait. We didn't have a lot of time. For me, the $9 that I spent to skip the line and just have to wait five minutes for my return time was money well spent. When I was there with my daughter who all she wanted to see was the Lion King show, it was pouring rain, it was a two hour wait. We got. We didn't realize a line. The queue extended so far out so early. When I realized that and said, oh, I could just buy one for the next day, you have a separate entrance, you have special seating. That was the best $15 I spent. And considering, you know, what it cost you to sort of quote unquote, walk in the door, that I think is, is wise money as opposed to being, you know, sort of pennywise and dollar foolish sometimes. But it's simple. You just go in, you pick the attraction that you want, you pick your return time and that's it. Or you can get sort of a day long, you know, park wide pass that will give you access to all the included attractions one time. It's just much simpler and it doesn't take that long to understand or explain. So you're able to walk into those parks relatively blind and not be like, whoa. If you did not plan out your Lightning Lanes and Genie pluses six months in advance, you already going to sort of be behind the veritable eight ball. So I think there is a system and process that could be simpler, that's more accessible, but also has all of the benefits. If you want it, that option is there, but it also will not preclude you from being able to ride and do everything that you want if you don't mind waiting a little bit longer.

And I think it needs to be more clear about what ones are not included with Lightning Lane because I don't know how many times I walked past cast members who are sitting there explaining, like, rise isn't available for like, I know you have Lightning Lane, but you can't use it for this. I mean like I multiple times in multiple parks. I heard that thing like, why is it? Why can't I do flights of passage. Like, I don't understand they did. It's just. It's not clear. And I'm with you, Lou. I think they need to. It's fine having a paid tier. I get it because it makes money and it's great for people who want to skip the line, but I think it just needs to have better instructions and more of a flat tiered kind of a thing for it.

Yeah, I forgot the part about Paris. We did the Dayong pass where you could just get one ride on each one. That was so incredibly simple and it made. We did both parks in one day and rode everything we wanted to ride. It was such a great experience and so easy. Right. We didn't have to think about it. We just made our way around the park and jumped in a line. It was great.

So sort of a. A quick supplementary in or out question to this as we were talking about the. These, you know, sort of being able to skip the line. Disney should add the option for paid lightning lane whatever experiences for character meet and greets in the parks while you're in or out. I'll give you a second to think I'm not a huge character picture kind of guy. But sometimes you are with people that want to do it in these lines, especially for things like, you know, you go to Mickey's not so scary Halloween party, people will wait three, four hours to meet Jack. I mean, that's your whole ticket is going to. So characters for a lot of people are very, very important. And I wonder if something like a paid lightning lane experience for character meet and greets could be a viable option and how it would be received. So are you in or out?

Don't they have that already for lightning lanes, for like, Ariel's Grotto and stuff? Isn't that. Can't you get, like, in there to get a picture with like, Ariel at the lightning lane or. No. Am I wrong?

Maybe it'll show you how many times I've tried to get a lightning lane.

I just saw it when we walked by and I thought that was an option. Maybe I. That may be wrong, but I think you're right, Lou. I think that would be a. A good option for those parents if they could know that, yeah, I'm going to get a picture with, you know, this character who my daughter is. That's the whole reason we're sneaking here. Like, yeah, I think that would be something because I think it's not every character. It's certain characters that everybody wants to think with and so on. Having it that way would work.

Yeah, I think it could be really beneficial for parents. I don't. It'd be complicated how they implemented especially.

Yeah.

Like you're saying at the parties they're not in a traditional queue, they're sometimes just out. But like Princess Fairy Tale hall and things like that. I think they're. I think they already are. I think you're right, Jeff. But I mean if I could go to the, the Halloween party and know that I'm gonna get all the characters, I, I would probably pay for that. We've never waited in those lines just because. Yeah, it's your whole party. It's crazy. It's an awesome picture to get with all seven dwarves in Snow White. That would be really cool. But I'm not waiting two hours for that.

Yeah, I do like how they do, you know, characters in most of the other parks around the world, for the most part a kind of free roaming. Like you don't necessarily have to queue the same way you do in world. It's a very sort of unique animal here. You go to Tokyo, you go to Disneyland and you'll just find them sort of wandering around, even sometimes interacting with each other as well. This is going to sort of lead me to the, the next one. We were talking about the Halloween party and I was thinking about Magic Kingdom and the things that are coming to Magic Kingdom and the new show that's in Disney's Hollywood Studios and the excitement for and the anticipation for more villains. People have been asking for it for years. We are finally starting to get it into the parks. So let's switch over to Disney Cruise Line and tell me, are you in or out? Disney Cruise Line should replace Pirate Night with Villains Night at Sea. Jeff, then Paul.

I would say out. I just think. And here's why. Pirates are accessible for everybody. You slap on an eyepatch, you can go to the party and they give you a little bandana. I mean, I mean, I think the villains thing would be cool. I think maybe a special cruise would be a villains thing instead. I just think it's so much inside of the tradition of it and like it's easy for kids to dress up for it. Every kid wants to be a pirate. I just think it's kind of a no brainer. I would hate to see it go away. But of course, Disney's all about change and everybody loves change at Disney.

So you're just saying that because you have a giant pirate beard, you've been growing for 30 years.

I know. It's that's exactly it. It's hard to glue on every morning. But yeah.

Oh, this is tough for me because we, we don't do Pirate Night much anymore and I'm. There's parts of it we're just not a fan of, but it is really popular. So I think I'm out with it being replaced. However, I would love to see like a Marvel Day at Sea. Can we get a Villains Day at Sea? Bring back the villain show. Yes, I'm all in for that.

Yeah. I think the heroes and villains theme of the Disney destiny is going to prove to be very, very, very going back to again storytelling, leveling up experiences beyond character meet and greets. You're going to have these sort of walk and play experiences with characters that you're not just going to line up to get a picture and with or have a short conversation with, but you're going to meet them. My expectation is you're going to meet them in the grand hall, you're going to meet them in certain spaces and they are going to take you on these sort of little mini adventures going around. So I think, I think that is going to be a huge attractor for a lot of people because the heroes and villains are not just, you know, Marvel heroes and villains or it's across Disney, the entire sort of Disney movies and TV as well. That will lead me to my next inner out question. As long as we're talking about villains, Chernobog is the greatest or worst, however you want to define it. Disney villain. Are you in or are you out? I'm leaving it vague ish enough for you to interpret this however you want. He is the best, the greatest, the worst Disney villain. Are you in or are you out? Paul, you're first because Jeff is asking Jeeves, what is a Chernobog?

No, I know I have my laconic cards has him on it. So there. Take that.

Yeah. Jeff started. Started collecting packs. So I am out. A cool villain, but classic Disney villain. I'm all in on Hades. But like you just said, it's more than just Disney. It's more than just Marvel. If we're going to go with the greatest villain of all time, it's Darth Vader. No question.

Yes.

Interesting. Yes.

Yes. So, and I think you've had this conversation. I'm out. By the way. I don't think he is. I don't think because you think of recognizable being the most recognizable. I don't think he is the one. It was really interesting. So Jody hadn't seen the fantasmic show in a while. And we had gone, we went back, we got the dining package and did that and he's in there. And Jody thought how scary it was for kids. Cause it is kind of an intense with the dragon and the snake and like there's parents leaving with their kids, right? Like they were getting up because it was that scary for them. And I laughed and pointed fingers and no, I wasn't that guy. But I'm like, it was pretty intense and he was featured a lot of in it. But the best Disney villain I still and you've talked about. Lou is the, I can't remember his name all of a sudden the cardinal in hunchback for Notre Dame.

He's Judge Claude.

He is bad news, man. So like, I don't know if he's the best one. I think I would go with Hades just because he's kind of funny. But yeah, I would. I'm out on that.

Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know if I had ever asked this question before. And even if I had, I think it's interesting to hear different people's thoughts because I, I agree with you. I think Claude Frollo is probably not one that comes to mind first. Like nobody's walking around like with a Claude Frollo like T shirt on or like a Claude Frollo, you know, Labubu hanging from their, their. But he's, you know, unlike some of these other villains, like he's, he's not a creature, he's not a monster. Like he's us, right? He's just bad, right? He's, he's this supposedly respected public official and he's not, you know, a witch or a sorcerer. And I think that's part of what makes him so chilling is, is what his, his drive and motivation is. It's pride and fear and lust and this incredible sense of self righteousness. Like these are all very human emotions that we all understand. I think sometimes if we're honest with ourselves, sometimes we like wrestle with and if we sort of put a mirror up to our own flaws, sometimes we see some of what, you know, we see in Claude Frollo. And I think like a lot of like so many of the villains that we love to hate or hate to love, like he thinks he's the hero. Like he doesn't think that he's evil. Like Hades knows he's evil. He knows he's a bad guy. Scar is a bad dude. Like he's just proven that over and over again. But he thinks he's doing God's work. And you know, he has this like moral justification for what he does that is, you know, it's, it's real and relatable and sometimes historically real. And I just think that I keep thinking to hellfire. And again, when you think of incredible pieces of music, especially, you know, villains have their own themes.

Oh yeah.

I think it is such a dark, complex song. I mean the guy has a key, has a complete meltdown. Like he has an absolute psychological breakdown. And you know, he sings about something, you know, that is very not G rated and very not Disney in terms of his lust and desire for Esmeralda. And he's got, you know, self loathing. He's a very, I think, you know, now that we are semi adults, I think we can appreciate more of what he is going through and sort of the real world atrocities that we see. And he like, you know, he's like threatening like the soul. Like you know, most people. Villains want like your treasure or your kingdom. No, he's like, I'm going to, you know, go for. Yeah, you know, your, your soul. And I think because he's not fantasy and think it's more of a reflection. It's, you know, sometimes you don't have to have horns to be an evil villain or a big Jeff.

If you're going to go on music. Come on, Vader. I mean that's probably the most recognizable villain song ever.

Yeah.

Most unappreciated villain, I think as far as like merch and seeing him in the parks. 22 movies it took to build Thanos up. Why do we not have more of him in the park? Surely they sell the glove or whatever.

Right, right.

And you see some Infinity Stones. But how is he not on more merch, more present in some of the things.

Yeah, well, he's coming to Disneyland. You know, when I get the King Thanos e ticket attraction finally in Avengers campus.

Yeah, that'd be great.

I have a follow up for you. What are you guys thoughts on. And you can shut me down, Lou, if this is not. But when they're taking the villains and turning them into good in their sequels or story. Melissa Fent. Right. Or even Wicked, like the whole show. The movie Wicked is. Oh, she's really good. Like they're doing that with like they probably gonna do a scar and like what are your thoughts of them rewriting the story to make the villain good at the end?

You know, if it's not part of the villains? You know, there's the hero's journey. If he's not part of the villain's journey to have the red arc in the story, then I don't like sort of changing who the villain is to make him. And that's part of the reason why I chose Chernobog as sort of the launching point for the discussion. Because. And I think for some you could make the argument. Because I was a lawyer, I can make an argument both ways. You could say he's the goat of Disney villains because he is pure evil. There's no like, Thanos. You go like, oh, I understand. Like, his as whacked out as they were to him. His motivation was good. I'm trying to help the people who survive by getting rid of the half that don't. Chernobog isn't bad because he had a rough childhood or wasn't invited to a christening. Like, he's, you know, not trying to steal powers. I'm not trying to take over the kingdom. He's just pure evil incarnate. And he doesn't need a backstory. Right. Like, you don't need to know anything about where. Tell me about your childhood. Chernobyl. What did you. Did your father not hug you? Like, he doesn't have to say a single word. And I think part of what is so powerful about him is that he communicates that dread just through pure animation and music and not saying a single word.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

So, and I think, and I, I have to find it. Like, I know there's like a quote like about Walt and, and his feelings about Chernobog and sort of his love of Chernobog. And I think, I think he still holds up. Like, I think you can still watch now. Yeah, it's still that whole movie. And there's, there's portions of that movie that are, are interesting and freaky, but. But are legit scary.

Yeah, like the horse skeleton riders. They're showing that on the water curtain in Fantasmic. And kids are like, what is this? This isn't Mickey. You know, like, they're freaking out.

All right, let's see. Let's go back to the parks a little bit because as we were talking, I was thinking about over time how experiences have changed, how guests expectations have changed. So. And you know, the two of you are very forward thinking in terms of technology and things like that. So tell me, are you in or out that the real sort of future of Disney and more specifically the Disney parks experiences, is not necessarily in bigger parks and more ip, but small personalized guest experiences. Think like tailored adventures and customized and personalized interactive stories and even maybe smaller themed boutique almost style cruises and experiences. So it's not necessarily bigger, but it is more about maybe even some changes in the hospitality industry as a whole.

Hmm.

So am I in or out on technology?

So what you're asking, are you in or out on smaller, more personalized experiences for guests? Right. I think we maybe don't want to just be passive observers to big things. We want it to be more about us, more about our individual experiences as opposed to some of the, you know, personalization over scale.

So I think. I think I'm in. And I'm just gonna jump ahead of you, Paul.

Sorry.

One of the things is, you think back. One of the things that I like, interactive experiences have been a part of Disney's storytelling forever. Because I go back and I think when I was a kid, when I went through Haunted Mansion and I saw the ghosts, hitchhiking ghosts. And then they were in my car.

Holy.

That's interactive. Like, that is personalized thing. Like, that was really cool. Which ghost you're gonna get. And it was funny. This time I got the ghost with the beard, and it threw the beard on me. And I'm like, that didn't really work. They should have done the research.

But foreshadowing.

But I think those kind of little, little touches and technology is getting easier and easier for. To make those things personalized for us and face recognition and, like, cameras and I mean, all the things that we can do now, I think those smaller, intimate things are going to hit harder. And there's gonna be more of those. Like the cars at the end of Haunted Mansion, those kind of touches where it's like, oh, I can even argue that cosmic rewind is the same way. Like, what song did you get? That's what everybody asked. When you get off that ride, like, what song did you get? Like, we were really hard. Judy was praying for September and she didn't get it, and she was so mad. But those little pieces, those interactive things are going to be more and more important in the storytelling process. How the tech is going to work, I'm not really sure. I don't think we're all going to strap on things on our face right now. Ick. And ooh. I'm just like, no, thanks. They don't even clean those glasses good enough for me. I'm, like, dipping them in Purell when I'm putting them on. So I think there's going to be more and more of that thing. I'm all for it because I think the storytelling, it continues as they release new rides like Rise, like you're breaking out kind of a thing. That whole like, hey, you're in the rebellion now. That's going to be more and more, I think in those customizable smaller experiences around the parks. That's just what I predict.

I'm in, but for a few caveats. Technology is great and I think it can help tell stories, but I'm in for smaller experiences that focus on.

The.

Actors and the, the cast members. And so here's a couple of where places I've seen it and I think it's foreshadowing of what's to come. I mean, I regret I never got to go to the Star Wars Hotel, but from what I've seen, that's a great example of how they can use actual cast members to tell incredible stories with technology. But on the Disney Treasure, the, I can't remember, it's a Jungle Cruise themed improv show that was super interactive, super fun, very low tech, but man, that was an incredible experience. That kind of stuff is awesome. They also did another show in the atrium with the same group of, of actors. Jungle Cruise themed, that kind of stuff is incredible. I think I mentioned to you guys at creator camp, I went to, to Halloween Horror Nights for the first time and that that's not a small intimate setting. That's, it's big. But I think that's where you can see they're using incredible technology, incredible production, along with the human element to tell very immersive stories. I, what I would love to see is them take Disney, take that kind of idea and have a, a paid ticket in Galaxy's Edge or Avatar and have that kind of experience and super immersive with actors and technology and let us explore the land and interact with the same thing like the Star Wars Hotel, but put it in Galaxy's Edge. I mean, take my money, right? I'm in on that. Especially if they, they do it right and keep it to a small number so that it is actual. You know, you get that feeling and that actual personal experience. But I think, yeah, if we can combine the two, the technology with some of the, the human storytelling. Man, there's, there's, they're already doing some cool stuff and I can't wait to see what they're going to do with the Destiny and what you're talking about, the, you know, the play, play acting and stuff like that. I, I think that, that they're going to really have to lean into that. The scale of Walt Disney World is is getting tough. You know, you're talking about the characters can't walk around. It's because there's too many people. Even at Halloween Horror Nights, they've had to pull back with Art the Clown walking around a little bit because he, there's just too many people trying to interact with him. So I, I think smaller is going to be the, the, the thing that makes some of this happen. And it's going to be, it's going to be more of like a concierge type thing. It's going to probably going to be expensive, probably going to be separate tickets. But yeah, I think that can be really the future of some of the storytelling.

Yeah. So I'm going to cheat because it's my game and I can, I'm, I'm both in and out. Right. So I'm in on it. But I'm going to qualify it and say the potential for being out because like you said, Paul, is it. Are we talking about things that are concierge level experiences? Are they additional hard ticket? Right. We, we want to continue to try and make the parks and experiences as accessible in every sort of way to as many people as possible. Right. When money starts to become a barrier for experiences, you never want to like, you never want to exclude somebody simply because of money. Right. And then, you know, having to tell your kid, well, we can't do this because we can't afford it. That's hard. Right. And I don't think, you know, anybody wants that, but in order, but sometimes you need that in order to have some of these things. Look, I think it's not even just about money. And Jeff, it's not just about technology. I think there is this growing trend in not just hospitality, but I think entertainment, which is personalization over scale. And I think for Disney, I think there is huge potential for this. And I don't think it's, it's necessarily another. It's a fifth gate or a billion dollar attraction. It's maybe some of these smaller, deeper, more immersive offerings that make guests feel. Which I think goes back to what Walt's intention was to make every guest feel like they are not just watching, but they are the character or even a main character in their own story. I think technology can be leveraged to do that with AR and VR and some, some other ways to do that. Hopefully not meant by you staring at your phone. You know, and I thought about this when I was just on. We did our WW Radio Group cruise on the Seine on a river cruise, which is A much smaller vessel than a Disney Cruise line ship. Right. Where you might have 4,000, 5,000 people here, there's maybe 175 people. And I was like, you know, so Disney partners with AMA Waterways Adventures by Disney Nat Geo and so they are using another company's fleet of ships and laying over an Adventures by Disney or Nat Geo experience. I'm like, huh, I wonder if Disney's next step is much like they did with the big Red boat. Well, we've watched, we've learned, we've seen what the guest reaction is. Now maybe it's time for us to build our own fleet of ships. And I'm like, what would a. And I don't know, I'm hesitant to use the word luxury, but for lack of it, what would a like star Cruiser but literally on the water, what would a hundred room Disney ship with, you know, rotating themed sailings, like a Marvel Mystery Cruise or a, you know, a cruise themed towards like Epcot Culinary Adventures or Disney Princess Retreat, whatever you want to call it. But these like adventures by Disney, these smaller, more personal scales, like these sort of story driven journeys where you were a character in the narrative. Paul, you talked about cast members and characters and actors and I'm a thousand percent in like bring back Streetmosphere tomorrow, raise my ticket price, I don't care. But having those actors and locations and other things that are tailored to you and your story that you are trying to tell and I think the technology is layered on that. I think MagicBand and play Disney Parks and some of the AR stuff could offer some of these real time, almost adaptive experiences. Right. So imagine like, you know, a Galaxy's Edge Star wars mission or a Haunted mansion themed like mystery. That would change based on your choices on your actions on your previous Disney visits, which is what I think magic band and Genie and all that was part of what the foundational vision for that was, was we're going to collect all this data, we're going to be being able to see what you do and trends in what you do to personalize your experience in the parks. Right. And make suggestions on what you think they think you might want to ride next. But I think there's ways that you can do that if guests want it with a deeper level, almost of a gamification. Right. You can, there could be, you know, secret moments and things that you can reveal and storytelling access. So I think the vision is less is more. Right. It's not massive, it's more sort of micro magic. And so it's not about Paul. You talk about sometimes the parks being so crowded. It's not about squeezing more people into the parks. It's about creating these smaller, personal, unforgettable moments for fewer people. Does it maybe come at a premium? I don't know. I think there's ways to sort of scale that for everybody and then maybe have other layers. But it. It goes back to the reasons why we go and the reasons why we go back, which is, you know, it's storytelling and emotion and memory at the core.

So one of the things that I wanted to. What did I jump in front of? What did I jump.

I'm thinking. I'm thinking the river cruise. And I'm trying to find my credit card so I can sign up.

Now I know so bad. He cost me. I'm going to go on February for his Destiny cruise. I mean, like, just take my money. Anyway, what I was thinking is. And I. We got to. It'd been a while since Jodi had been there, but the Dapper Dans were doing their thing on Main Street. And we stopped and there was a huge crowd that started to gather and they were doing their little interactive, you know, the gong thing. They have a little, like these new things that they sing with the little chimes, which was really, really fascinating and cool. And I'm an AI guy, so, like, I think with the rise of AI, people are going to want these live experiences. And it wasn't just we crowded around and watched them sing. They interacted with the audience. And like, even the Casey Corner piano player, I would like to see more of those things because to me, those are interactive improv kind of things that draws a specific crowd in. Usually it's somebody who's been to the park. They don't. You know, we like the Dapper Dance. We want to hear them. We're not in a rush to go get in line for something else. We want to enjoy some things. So I kind of think it's like a Tier 2 visitor who's been there for a while, but that just brings people back. Like, and we spent. We went to two of the Voices of Liberty's concert inside of the American Pavilion. And because we love them, we love the acapella stuff and we know they're. They're top rate. I would love to see more of those kind of things popping up around the park that draw people in. There's an interactive. It's not just I'm sitting down listening to somebody play a guitar. It's this interactive kind of back and forth kind of A thing. I think more and more as this AI slop comes on the Internet and we see all this junk that everybody wants those experiences again. They want to go and have fun with some live music and stuff. So that's, I would love to see more of that.

Yeah, I, you know, you're thinking about. Lou, you mentioned smaller experiences. I think Disney is listening to that. If you look at some of the things they've done, they promote like the Moonlight Magic for DVC members as an exclusive, smaller thing. Some of the after hours parties were, were marketed as. It's a, you know, a smaller crowd. There's smaller ships coming. Right. I, I think Disney hears us on wanting to do that and I think back on in some of our favorite memories like when Brooke was little, that day we spent at Epcot. One of the things that made that really special is when she met Cinderella. There was nobody else there and brooke spent like 10 minutes with her. She got down on her knees, talked with her. They were trading pins. The suffrage ladies on Main street, we took pictures with them so many times that they started recognizing Brooke over the years and they would be excited when they saw her again. That kind of stuff. It, it's hard, it is hard to do at scale and they, they have gotten rid of some of it, but those can be really impactful. So yeah, some of that's going to have to come at a premium price. But there are little touches like the streetmosphere that they could put back in and really make an impression on people. I hope, I hope we see more of that.

Yeah, I think, I think it really is twofold and the way I framed it was, was very intentional because I think it's twofold in that there are physically smaller experiences. Right. For less guests in smaller spaces. But there are also smaller in terms of the projection of the story. Right. This is not a single story that everybody is experiencing at the same time. They are smaller stories that are personalized to us and for us and maybe even by us. And I think Galaxy's Edge has done that a little bit with the Play Disney with the Data Pad app, which I think has potential for so much more. I think this is the very, very first scratching of the surface of how our devices can be implemented to personalize our story if you want it. But I think there's also low tech, no tech versions of that too. Whether it's with cast members, whether it's with just the way experiences are created. I don't think that we, I think there's this continuing growing trend that we don't necessarily just want to be passive observers in an attraction. We want to play it right. Whether it's Midway Mania, whether it's web slingers, we want to be able to play it not just as like it's a video game, but we want to have some control. We want our story to be almost unique to us because those are the things that we take away from our Disney parks and cruise line experiences. You don't necessarily go home and tell the story about how cool this attraction was. You go home and tell the story about that cast member interaction, that unique thing that happened to you or your daughter or your wife or whatever it might be. And I think this invites and can foster even more of those types of opportunities. I think the potential to go small is huge. So I would love to know what you listening at home or the car or in that thing they call a gymnasium. Think about any or all these. I will post them over in the clubhouse. You can come and comment there over at www.radio.com clubhouse. I'd also love to know if you are in and out on any of these, you can be heard on the air. I will call. You can call the voicemail at 407-909-9391 and I will play your in or out answer on the air. Paul and Jeff, thank you guys both for being here. Again, I did my very best to try and explain who you are and what you do and where people can find you at the beginning. But Jeff, then Paul, in your own words, who are you, what do you do and where can people find you?

Yes, Jeff, C is the name. It's spelled S as in Sam, I, E, H I before E, especially in C. And so my mommy told me to memorize it so I keep it up. Yeah, you can. We do a show. Lou and Paul have both been on multiple times. We do it every Friday at 10am Central. It's called Creator News Live. We talk about the creator economy, what's going on there. Some cool stuff but would love for you guys to come there. And you can also join my email list@jeffc.com news. We have a lot of fun in the email community. Paul's a big part of that, so we'd love to see you over there.

So first, Lou, you, you left one off and I want to say I'm all in on momentum. If you're looking for a conference or workshop, come to how much did he.

Pay you for that?

He knows my Venmo. Yeah. So I'm all in on Momentum. Come join us there. It's going to be a great weekend. I'm really looking forward to that. So I founded powwows.com almost 30 years ago. It is a place for anyone to come and experience and connect with Native American culture. If you are looking for a powwow to go to, they're open to the public. Anybody can come. Powwows.com powwow101 and I will teach you all about what to expect at your first powwow. And then on the other side, I, I help creators and entrepreneurs really create the life they love. Helping you build community, grow your email list, and making your business thrive. So you can find out all about that over@paulg.com I will link to all of that.

I wasn't paying attention, but I will link to all that in the show notes over@wdwradio.com you know what, Jeff? We, you know, we should do, we should like hop on a train and go with Paul to a powwow. Like experience our pow.

I've always wanted to see what it's like.

Yeah. And we'll. And we can live stream the whole thing so.

And mock him unmercifully. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And yeah. Guys, you, you are a big part of the reason why Momentum. And I know I'm, I'm biased, but why I think momentum is such a special conference and you're so generous with your experience and expertise and so generous to help other people turn what they love into what they do. And you guys have changed lives in ways that you probably don't recognize. Not just because of what you do with the content you create, but in the way that, that you help people so selflessly. I appreciate you guys in not a creepy kind of way. I love you both as well. This is a lot of fun and we will definitely have to do it again. Are you in or out? The Boat House is the best restaurant in Walt Disney World.

In. I had their crusted. Their seared coriander tuna is amazing.

It's fantastic. But I'm out. Polite pig.

Just selection.

Yeah, it's, it's the bourbon. You got to go for the bourbon. And the barbecue is pretty good too.

It's not bad.

Yes. Paul is somebody who literally brings bourbon. He brings bourbon with him on vacation.

He bleeds bourbon.

That's right. It's time for this week's Walt Disney World trivia challenge. We can test your Disney knowledge with a fun question about the history of hidden details or classic sounds from the parks. If you enter an answer correctly, you can enter for a chance to win a magical prize package and this week's trivia contest is once again brought to you by my favorite foodie event of the year, which we are getting ever so close to. It is of course the Swan and Dolphin Food and Wine Classic. Now in its 16th year. It takes place Friday, November 14 and Saturday, November 15 from 5 to 9pm with more than 4049 different food dishes, the most ever, an entirely new menu from past years, hundreds of beverage tastings around the world, two new booths from the newest restaurants on property including Bourbon Steak by Chef Michael Mina, two new five course signatures tasting experiences with Chef Michael Mina or Chef Todd English, live entertainment and did I mention that your ticket gives you unlimited food? And I'm smiling because I'm excited. Unlimited food and beverage samples and there are plenty of other additional tasting experiences available as add ons. It really is one of the true highlight events of my year, food and otherwise. And if you love Disney and food and having a great weekend, you are going to love it too. Tickets are on sale now and you can get all the details over at Swan, Dolphin food and wine classic.com and just let you know I had a sneak peek of some of the new menu items items this year including an incredible slow braised wagyu beef short rib, stir fried rice, a chirashi bowl, pan fried shrimp and pork dumplings, oyster sliders and so much more. I am more excited for this year's event than ever and hope to see you on the causeway this November. Now before we get to this week's trivia contest question, let's go back review last week's and select our winner. So on the last episode I asked you to tell me what was the very first Nighttime Spectacular in Epcot. Thanks to so many of you entered, got this one correct, got creative with your answers, or remembered that in October 1982 Carnival de Lumiere was Epcot Center's very first Nighttime Spectacular which debuted shortly after the park opened. It celebrated international festivals through music and fountains and images that were projected on these large rear projection screens mounted on barges on World Showcase lagoons. Other barges had fountains and fireworks. Everything was synchronized and controlled using Apple computers, which was very cutting edge at the time. But the caveat was you could only see it clearly from a limited section of the lagoon between the Mexico and Canada pavilions. And so while it was very short lived, it really did lay the groundwork for some of the later and I think more ambitious like a new world fantasy that came out in 1983 and ultimately illuminations. And so I took all the correct entries, randomly selected one, and last week, you were once again playing for a WWRADO keychain, stickers pin and a mystery prize that I brought back for you from our Adventures by Disney on the Seine and from Disneyland Paris. And last week's winner, randomly selected is Alyssa Board. So, Alyssa, congratulations. I will package up your prize, get it out to you right away. And if you played last week and didn't win, that's okay because here's your next chance to enter in this week's Walt Disney World, I think easier trivia challenge. So it is spooky season in Walt Disney World because even though Halloween's on October 31st, it basically starts in August. But I digress. I love Halloween. I love all the spooky stuff and I love the Haunted Mansion, which, as I'm sure you know, has a pet cemetery outside. What famous character from another Disney attraction can be found laid to rest there as a tombstone tribute? What famous character from a now extinct Disney attraction can be found there as a tribute via tombstone? You have until Sunday, October 12th at 11:59pm Eastern to go to www.com click on this week's podcast. Use the form there again, this week you're gonna play for the keychain, the stickers, a pin, and another set of mystery prizes from our Adventures by Disney River Cruise and from Disneyland Paris, maybe even, maybe it's even Phantom Manor themed. So good luck and have fun. That's gonna do it for this week's show. Thank you again for listening and for being part of the WWEO family. I'm insoran co incredibly grateful to and for you. I hope you found some magic in this week's show and that you just sort of feel better because of it. I will apologize. I know this week's show I missed a couple of weeks. It's only because I was traveling and wasn't able to put together a show in time. I promise I will try my best not to let that happen again. Although this week I'm actually leaving again for New York City to cover New York Comic Con. You can follow along on Instagram. I'm at Lou Mongello and if you're going to be at New York Comic Con, let me know. If you'll be there. We can maybe say hi on the show floor. And if you enjoyed this week's show, please help spread the word, share it and tell a friend. And please remember to be kind. Choose the good. Have a great day. And even better tomorrow. And once again, thank you for letting me share a little bit of the magic with you. Have a great day. Have a great week. So, until next time. See ya. Well, it sounds pretty good. In fact, that's just the right spirit.