Foreign Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

Trying to be creative too, and finding different ways to let them know that hey, this is how we want to play.

And honestly, it's probably the most fun way to play.

But having those conversations too helps alleviate some of that stress of guys concerned about maybe getting a certain number of shots.

Because as we know, in most situations, if things are going right, your best guys are going to get the most shots anyway, even if you play that free flowing ball movement style.

But it's also just making sure that they understand that as well.

Ryan Van Zelst will enter his first season as the men's basketball head coach at Drew University in 2025 26.

Most recently, Van Zelst held the position of associate Head coach at Division 2 Millersville University during the 202425 campaign when he helped Millersville to a 1912 record.

Van Zell's career includes head coaching stops at both Cabrini University and Penn State Abington.

He also served as the associate head coach at Scranton, where he spent seven years with the Royals.

He picked up additional Division III experience as an assistant coach at both York College and his alma mater, Albright College.

In 2017, Van Zelst was named to the NABC 30 under 30 team and he was a part of the NABC Mentor Circle program in 2021 as a student athlete, Van Zell played three seasons at Albright and was a member of the 2010 team that captured the Mac Commonwealth Conference championship and advanced to the NCAA Tournament.

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Hi, this is Joe Burke, Head Men's.

Basketball Coach at Skidmore College and you're listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

Be prepared with a notebook and pen as you listen to this episode with Ryan Van Zelst, men's Basketball Head Coach at Drew University.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Clenzinga here without at least for the time being, my co host Jason Sunkel.

But I am pleased to be joined by the new men's head basketball coach at Drew University, Ryan Van Zelst.

Ryan, welcome to the hoop heads pod.

I appreciate you having me excited to.

Have you on, Ryan.

And we are talking to you very shortly after Ryan just took the job at Drew University.

So, Ryan, tell me a little bit about just the why, the what, the how.

How'd this take place?

What is it about Drew that excited you, that got you that opportunity?

And we'll start there and then we're going to eventually dive into it a little bit more deeply, but just to kind of get it off the top since it's something that is very fresh as we start the interview.

Yeah.

So the why my journey is a little bit different, being that I was a Division 3 head coach and spent a lot of time in the Division 3 level as an assistant at the University of Scranton, where I was lucky enough to get that coaching job at Penn State Abington.

And we had a really good run and we did great.

And you know, I'm not going to sit here and say it was all me.

We had great young people that, that we just all got on the same page.

We did some great things together and then lucky enough to get the Cabrini University job.

And I know most people are familiar with that story now with the school closing and me finding that out, so.

And just, just nothing really open last year.

And a good friend of mine, Casey Stitzel, had an assistant spot, so had the opportunity to go with him for a little bit.

And then Drew open, right?

And being in the landmark, obviously it's a program I've seen have success under Coach McSloy recently, and then before him, Coach Keckler and those guys I've considered friends I've known.

Not great, but enough.

When you see him in a recruiting event, you say hi, talk to him a little bit.

And I know some of the alums just, you know, from being in this for a little bit and they all say great things and about the community, the campus, the people that work there and the program itself.

So for me, it was a no brainer in the situation that was and the comfortability that I have within the league and the university and the people that are affiliated with it.

So.

And then outside of the Y, the whole process probably took about three weeks.

So still digesting a lot of it, probably that last week of, last week of June here, I did a zoom and it kind of just moved.

And the athletic director, Krista Racine, she's fantastic.

And really was honest and forthright about the process.

And unfortunately for me, I feel bad.

But when I found out I was at a big time recruiting van and obviously it's a live period this past weekend, so news spread quick.

I don't know if Krista was too happy with me.

I actually owe her an apology.

I have not apologized to her about it yet.

So it was hard to kind of keep that under wraps when I found out.

And to be honest, over that last four year journey and going through the Cabrini situation and trying to get back to being coach, it was extremely emotional for me.

And I can't hide anything.

You could probably tell as we're speaking here right now, I'm pretty not an emotional way.

But you know, what you see is what you get.

So just excited and honestly, all the people I've met so far, you know, the members on the team right now and then people across campus that were part of the committee, they were fantastic.

So couldn't be happier.

Just very quick, life changing, three weeks here.

So.

We'Re going to dive into all that in a little bit more detail and just what it's been like in the first couple days since you took the job officially and it was announced.

And we'll get into some of the talks that you've had with current players and just kind of where you're thinking about in terms of where you want to take the program and, and what you've done in the past at your various stops.

So let's start though by going back in time and we'll eventually work our way back up to, to taking the Drew job here.

But let's go back in time to when you're a kid.

Tell me a little bit about how you got in the game of basketball when you were younger.

What were some of your first experiences with the game?

Yeah, it's interesting.

I know a lot of coaches either have a father, an uncle, someone that's really directly involved with the game of basketball.

I, um, I didn't really have that.

You know, for those that are listening, I don't know who's too familiar.

I have a twin brother.

He's the head coach at Arcadia University.

He's two minutes older.

I like to think I got the better personality and looks.

He was a little bit better player than me, and I can admit that.

But I really think us having each other drove us in the game.

And my dad loved basketball, but he's, you know, he's a grocery store manager, he's blue collar.

He was just a fan Right.

It's not like he had these direct ties, you know, coaching at high school, et cetera.

So really just, you know, put a little tykes net in our house when we were younger and we would just play 100 to 100 almost every single day indoors.

And I think my mom and my dad at the time were not too happy about it when we started getting a little bit bigger.

But I really think that that competition piece directly, you know, what started directly with just me versus him really just grew the love for the game that we had.

And some of our earliest memories are us just on the playground or going to local, local park when we're third, fourth grade and we're starting to like remember, starting to remember some of this stuff and starting to get a little bit competitive, have a little bit of edge and playing against other kids or playing against my uncles, my cousins and beating them.

And you know, when you have early success as a kid playing a sport, you just naturally gravitate towards it.

So yeah, I just think that, that the real drive just came from my brother and me and him just trying to push each other almost indirectly because at that age it's still just fun, right?

You don't think about it like that.

So.

And then my dad just being supportive.

I almost, you know, there's times when I'm like, man, you know, I kind of wish my dad was more involved when I was younger, like knowing what we're doing and pushing us to play basketball at the same time.

I kind of like that he was just a store manager, a blue collar guy because you know, he just, you're just watching his two, two sons have fun playing the game that you know, that he loved.

Right.

So a little bit different than a lot of coaches and.

But I really just think it was my relationship, my brother, yeah, I do.

Think that having a built in competitor right there, two minutes away from you, right.

That you can bang on, that you can fight with, that you can compete against all the time.

It's funny because so in my family I grew up with all I had.

I had, I had one sister and then my current family that my own kids.

I have two daughters and a son.

So I have never lived in a home with the dynamic of brothers, never lived in, you know, again, when I grew up in a home with just a sister and then now I have two sisters and one son.

So it's like I never saw in my own home the competitive brother thing going on.

And yet I knew lots of families growing up that were my friends that had Just boys in the house.

And what I will say is, man, those houses.

He talked about your parents sitting back and kind of watching you guys beat on each other and play one on one to a hundred.

And I just remember some of those families, like the knockdown drag out between brothers, like competing in athletics, but then also one of them getting mad at the other and chasing them through the house with a pan and all just all this crazy, you know, all this crazy stuff of like, holy cow, man.

Like I.

It just, it just didn't jive with, again, me and my sister, the way that our interactions were or the way that my kids interact with each other.

Because you just don't have all that.

You don't have all that masculine back and forth, you know, that I'm sure that you and your brother have.

But at the same time, like you said, the competitiveness that you develop to be able to want to beat your brother and then just having somebody who is always there, right?

It's not.

I don't have to go out on the driveway by myself and imagine I'm playing against somebody.

Like the guy I'm playing against is right.

He's right there.

And I can only imagine again, how A, fun that was, but then B, how much it helped you guys develop as athletes.

And like you said, not that you were even thinking about that when you first started playing, right?

You're just playing because it's fun.

And.

And I think that's ultimately when you start talking about why do people pick up a basketball, right?

You pick up a basketball or you pick up a football or baseball, you pick up and you play because it's fun.

And I think that leads to, as you said, when you have success, success sort of breeds success.

You want to do more, you want to do more with it, you want to do more with it.

And so as you guys started to take the game more seriously, as you got a little bit older, how did you start to think about developing yourselves as players?

Obviously not the same way that players develop themselves today.

You guys are probably right on the edge of when maybe there was one guy in town that was maybe doing some training, but certainly nothing like there is today.

So just tell me a little bit about how you guys went about trying to get better once you realized that that's what you wanted to do.

Yeah, it's.

I can say this, too.

We did.

We probably peaked in eighth grade.

So I was.

I was this size in eighth grade, and so was my brother.

So we were, you know, in the Philly area.

We're getting recruited by all the Catholic League schools.

So it was neat.

You know, we.

We were.

We were, like, really kind of wanted at that point.

But nah, it's interesting.

You know, we did miss that.

We missed that.

You know, the trainer always having someone in town and, you know, you pay 30, 40 bucks, have someone to go work out.

We really didn't have that.

And where we grew up, outside, like, lower bucks, it was just always going outdoor courts and just finding different games.

And, you know, we went to a private school in high school and even grade school, we'd love to go play.

The kids that played in the public schools, like the Pennsberries, the Trumans, like, because we just wouldn't see them that much, so.

And we were super competitive, as you can imagine.

You know, circling back a little bit.

Like, you know, if.

If me and him were on the same team, it's almost life and death because we know the battles that we had against each other when we were playing against each other.

So just always, it just.

It created a different atmosphere, I think.

And I know.

No, it's just, you know, young people have it differently with the trainers and everything scheduled for us, it was just, hey, let's drive around, let's ride our bikes, let's drive around.

Let's have an older guy we know just drive us to the park or walk to the park and just go hoop and just try to measure ourselves in that regard.

Then, okay, if I'm not as good, I get humbled a little bit.

I go back to the driveway or go out front and I'll work on this or work on that.

So there's definitely positives and negatives.

I think one of the positives, in my opinion, is it just kept it a little bit more fresh.

The randomness of it, of going to a park, challenging yourself and being okay with failure.

I think it made it a little bit easier to accept that because, you know, you're just.

You're just playing.

It wasn't scheduled, it wasn't planned.

And then I think some of the weaknesses.

I think the skill level in basketball is so much better because of the way things are now with young.

With young people.

So.

Right.

You know, with any, you know, in any situation, there's always positives and negatives, but, yeah, we just, you know, we'd always just try to challenge ourselves and.

And go out there and be better against people we didn't know and probably similar to where.

Where you were and when you were coming up.

So a little bit old school with that didn't really have that.

We did have awesome, unbelievable.

High school coaches at the time would bring us in the gym and we'd go in there and shoot, right?

But it wasn't, hey, there's these four cones, do this Euro step, pro hop, you know.

But it was like kind of on that ground floor.

So.

I love the way I, the way we had it when we were coming up.

I thought it allowed us to meet different people too.

You had to get outside your comfort zone and I think that's massive when it comes to growth in any, any part of life.

But at the same time.

Yeah.

Would we have loved to have a trainer?

Because I wasn't the best shooter at that point in my career.

Absolutely.

So a little bit of both.

Well, here's what I always say to that question or that, that concept, right.

I love the era that I grew up in where I'm playing pickup basketball and I'm playing against people from all different places.

I'm playing against all different ages.

I'm having to prove myself when I'm 14, showing up as the little kid on the court, trying to be the first guy there so I can play in the first game and then hang around until everybody's done so I can play in the last game.

Even if I don't get in any other games besides those two, I know I'm going to at least get to play in the, you know, get to play in those.

And I think that I wouldn't trade, I wouldn't trade my upbringing in the game for anything that's going on today.

And yet at the same time, I think you make a tremendous point about the skill level of players today.

And I think about, again, I'm old, so 55 years old, we're talking.

It's a long time ago, Ryan, when I'm playing high school basketball.

But you think about the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th man on a high school team back in the era when I was playing and the skill level there compared to what a 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th man on a high school team can do today in terms of handling the ball and shooting it.

I mean, it's not even, it's not even comparable.

I mean, every, every team back when I was in high school had, well, one, two, three guys that were just football players that were going out looking to crunch somebody on a screen or hey man, just, you know, grab some rebounds.

Don't, don't even think about dribbling or even, even, even a put back man, kick that thing back out.

And now everybody's Skilled.

And so it's definitely a different.

It's definitely a different world than the one that you grew up in or the one that I grew up in.

As you said, there's pluses and minuses to everything.

No matter how you.

You know, no matter how you look at.

I think we're always biased towards the experience that.

Towards the experience that we had.

So I would agree with you there that I love the pickup basketball scene.

It's one of the things that I'm probably most sad about for my own kids, that they never really got to experience sort of the pickup basketball and just going and finding a game.

And instead they're always in a gym with dad watching or mom watching and a scoreboard and officials and all that kind of stuff.

And, you know, they missed out on some of the experiences like the ones that.

The ones that you and I had.

So tell me a little bit about your recruitment and the decision that you make to go and play college basketball.

What's.

What's that like to go to?

You know, you end up going to Albright.

What's it.

What's the decision process look like for you?

Yeah, you know, just like, you know, we're talking about pickup and some of that stuff.

AU was kind of just at the forefront when I.

When I was playing.

It wasn't, you know, there wasn't a tournament every weekend.

You know, it was still local AU teams.

I think I played for a team called Lower Bucks Lightning.

So it wasn't a driver in recruitment.

So really, for us, my brother and I was more just a high school scene.

So, you know, we go to team camps, Eastern Invitational and some of those camps like that, right back when those were still a big deal, too.

And we both got recruited a little bit by some local Division 3 schools in the Philadelphia area.

My brother got recruited by a couple more than I did.

And we kind of just, you know, we were late in the process.

I think it was late May, and we just looked at each other.

We're like, hey, like, it sounds so silly when you think about it now.

But no, we.

Honestly, we didn't want to.

We didn't want to live with anyone else.

We're so used to being with each other more.

So just relationship wise and just basketball wise.

And we both just, you know, Albright was one of the few schools that was recruiting us together to come to come to Albright together.

So Coach Ferry still talk to him.

You know, he's a mentor.

He's a great friend.

Still this day, he took us both and, you know, he called.

You know, this is before cell phones.

He'd call our house phone and be like, all right, I'm done talking to you.

Put Adam on the phone.

I'd be yelling upstairs, Adam, come down.

Like, it was just.

It was one of those things.

And he did a really good job and made us feel like he didn't want both of us because, you know, it's tough.

We're both 5, 9, 510 guards playing in the city of Philadelphia.

You know, there's a lot of us out there.

So made that decision.

Looking back on it now as a coach, in terms of playing time, probably not the smartest for, like I said, two guys that had very similar skill sets to go to the same school to play college basketball.

But it's one of those things.

I say this to everyone I recruit to, you know, it's the best decision I ever made.

Yeah.

Do I wish I played more and had a better playing career?

A hundred percent.

But I'm best friends with everybody I played with at Albright College.

I mean, I get on the shore with those guys all the time.

I have a wedding coming up for one of my buddies I played with.

And, you know, just being around my brother for another four years was special.

And I think that's probably a driver and why I got into this profession.

And also at the same time, you know, between Coach Ferry, Coach Brit Moore, who's one of my best friends, he's now going to be coaching against him in the Landmark, which I'm not looking forward to, but he was an assistant at the time, Kevin Driscoll.

I mean, those guys, they just made us feel so comfortable and created such an environment where, no, we loved it.

And, you know, you're going to have tough days at practice where, you know, you're mad at the coach or you're not getting the playing time.

But looking back, I don't, you know, I don't really have any negative memories.

I love my experience there, and I am happy I won my brother, even though, you know, he played a lot more than I did.

And I can admit that now as a 37 year old.

But we all make decisions, and I have no regrets about what I did, mainly for the reasons I just mentioned.

Think, Ryan, what you just said hits home for me when you talked about just what the experience was like.

And it's interesting that there, I think, are a lot of people that had an opportunity to play college basketball or college sports.

And, you know, when you think about what it's like when you're a high school player and the amount of.

I don't even know if pressure is the right word, but right.

Everybody's constantly asking you if you want to play college basketball, right?

There's the constant stream of where are you going to go?

Who's, who's recruiting you?

Everybody's looking at social media, you're looking at the guys you're playing against, you're looking at where they're going, you're looking at the offers that they're posting, you're looking at schools that you're thinking about and who's going there and all this.

And there's all this stuff and all this pressure and clearly there's in a lot of people's minds, there's the Division one or bust mentality.

And what I've come to realize over time and I don't know if I would have realized this back when I was a kid when I was playing, but realizing it now as a parent, as a coach and kind of looking at the situation and when I talk to people today, I'm always like, look like your experience, whether you play at a Division 3 school, you play at an AI school, you played a Division 2, you played a Division 1, ultimately, guess what, you're going to go to practice every day, you're going to hopefully playing some games, you're going to have teammates, you're going to have a coaching staff.

Like that stuff is universal at every level.

And if you have a great experience at whatever level you're at, then you're coming out of it richer than you could ever imagine.

And I think you just really said that really well in terms of what you got out of it far exceeds anything that you probably could have dreamed about right when you were 18 and made the decision like you're priority when you were 18 of making that decision probably is a lot different than when you look back on what you got out of it.

Ultimately, I think it's the, you know, it's the experience and it's not everybody gets hung up on the level, the this, the that.

And the honest truth is once you decide where you're going to go, there's like your family and maybe like two other people that care at all about, about where you're, about where you're going to go and follow you and pay attention to what you're doing wherever you end up.

And to me it just comes back to, like you said, it comes down to the experience.

And I always think that when you're coaching at the Division 3 level, are you coaching at the NAI level, you're coaching at the Division 2 level.

Like, I've had so many coaches tell me, Ryan, that, look, I'm selling the basketball program.

I'm selling myself as a coach.

I'm selling the experience.

I'm selling the.

My team, your teammate, your future teammates, right?

These are.

The guys are going to be.

You're going to be in their weddings, they're going to be in your wedding.

That's what you really are trying to sell when it comes down to.

Yeah, the basketball is important.

Everybody wants to win and lose, but man, that experience is so important.

Absolutely.

It's.

It's everything.

And honestly, that's what drives me as a coach and that's what I love about the Division 3 level because the impact is different.

And don't get me wrong, I love my opportunity here at the scholarship level, you know, the talent, etc.

Etc.

I can go on and on, but Division 3 level, you know, it's just a little bit more.

It's.

It's more about the.

It's about the program.

It's about the.

You.

You just feel it a little bit different.

Just a different vibe in.

In the gym, in the day to day, in my opinion.

Yep, couldn't agree more.

So when you guys get there to school at Albright, are you guys thinking already that you want to coach or what's your mindset in terms of.

Are you just still thinking about being a basketball player at that point?

Obviously, as you said, your background's a little different.

You didn't necessarily have any coaches in your life that you were watching in your house being like, hey, I can see what the coach's life is like.

I see what all this behind the scenes stuff is.

So what was your mentality going into school?

Were you guys, both you and your brother thinking about coaching at that point or was that something that wasn't on your radar yet?

Yeah, when we went to school, I'll be.

I'll be very honest.

We were.

We were not focused on the right things at all.

My brother and I probably, we weren't the best students and I, I spend this all time too.

Can't run away from it.

Right?

So probably my biggest regret in life too is not doing better as an undergrad.

But really we just wanted to play, want to hang out with our friends and just make the most of our time there.

I tell this to everyone.

If it wasn't.

I know I brought his name up already, but if it wasn't for Brit Moore, assistant, we just really clicked with him, and we just enjoyed being around him and the way he coached and the way he connected and built those relationships with everyone on our roster.

It kind of gave us a pathway of what we wanted to do.

When we were undergrads, I'd probably say junior senior year, my brother and I had some conversations about, like, hey, this is something we can see ourselves doing full time.

And actually, my brother hung on at all, right, when he.

When he graduated and helped him out for a year.

And myself, I made the mistake of trying to work in the real world.

Absolutely hated it for six months.

Probably was awful at it, to be honest with you, too.

And I saw my brother, you know, yeah, the money's not the same.

I was making more money.

But we've never viewed life like that.

Like, I'm trying to make much as much money as possible, and I saw him enjoying it and building relationships with the guys and staying around the sport we grow up loving.

So that's kind of how I got driven back into it.

But during our undergrad years, we probably didn't think too much of it until our junior senior year because we were having such a great experience.

Right.

Did you guys have conversations with your coaching staff about that?

Did you start talking about, hey, we may want to at some point get into coaching or we're thinking about coaching?

Was that a conversation that you had beyond just the two of you?

Yeah, I would say we.

We had our conversation then, you know, Brit Moore, Coach Ferry, those guys pulled Adam aside.

Obviously not going to keep both of us to hang around, but they pulled my brother aside and they asked him, like, hey, do you.

You know, I know you and Bry talk about this a little bit, like, is this something you would be interested in?

And.

And then they, you know, that kind of drove us.

And I, you know, I. I saw him just having fun and enjoying it and just seeing the impact he was having.

Even as a, you know, one year out of school when I was like, this is something I want to do.

And it's funny, I say this to everybody, too.

When you look back, I'm 37 years old.

Almost every decision I've ever made has been based on a game, a sport, right?

And it's silly.

I laugh about it and I smile.

But then, you know, you think about it and you're like, wow, this is how much I love this sport and this game and how much impact it's had on my life, the friendships, the relationships.

So it really is why we just, you know, we.

We put both of Our feet in.

And I'm.

I'm extremely happy.

You know, Coach Ferry and.

And coach Moore and coach Driscoll created that environment.

We're able to have that conversation with my brother to kind of bring me into it as well.

When you get into it and you get back and get the opportunity at Albright to coach for the first time, do you know right away that you're in the right spot?

Obviously, your brother had talked to you about it.

Obviously, you knew that, hey, the real world job wasn't.

Wasn't what you thought.

So clearly, the game is trying to draw you back in.

But what do you remember about that first season, the first couple months on the job, coaching?

What'd you love about it right away?

Yeah.

So really.

So like I said, I'm from the Philadelphia area.

Anyone from the Philadelphia area thinks Philadelphia is the center of the universe.

And I actually made a decision to move out to York College to go out with Matt Hunter.

Took a chance on me, owe him, indebted to him forever.

I think I made $4,000.

I still don't know how I survived, actually.

And, yeah, it was a lot.

You know, he's very demanding, unbelievable basketball coach.

He actually taught me how to work.

And I think moving away from Philly and moving to York, Pennsylvania, is the best thing that ever could have happened for me, because I know I talked about a little bit earlier, too.

It got me out of my comfort zone, put me in conversations with people I don't necessarily know, put me in an environment where, you know, I can't just lean on my brother anymore.

Right.

I'm just used to having someone always next to me, and he wasn't there anymore.

So it grew me up as an individual.

And spending those two years with him told me everything about how to work, being in the office every single day, showing up at a certain time, being productive.

You know, there's a time that Joe can mess around as a college coach, but there's also a time where you got to get things done.

And then, you know, being a young coach around a program that actually had a lot of success, and then when he took over, was in the middle of a rebuild, There were some trying times, and it was the best thing that could happen.

Going through that struggle with him and watching him deal with some difficult conversations, situations, and, you know, at that age, you don't really know anything, and you probably think you have more answers than you really do.

So just having him kind of teach me and be super patient with me was everything.

And he's you know, he's still one of my best friends to this day.

So those two years at York really set the foundation for, you know, my path and who I.

Who I think I am as a coach.

What's an area that, when you look back, you think, man, I really knew nothing about that when it came to coaching.

You're not allowed to say everything because I know everything is the standard answer.

But what, what, what's one or two things that you really felt like you came into it and you were.

Whether it was just surprised that coaches had to do those things or just an area that you feel like you really grew early in your career from where you started.

Honestly, I think from where I started, I, I just think it's some of the, you know, I always say this.

I think everything's connected.

How you do anything is how you do everything as a head coach.

I preach that, even as associate head coach at Millersville.

But back then, when I was young, I probably didn't value the day to day as much or, you know, say, you know, a student athlete showed up two minutes late or showed up, you know, isn't practicing super hard or, or says something strange to coach that probably is not appropriate at that age.

You know, it kind of just goes past you and you're, you know, you know, something's off, you know, it's not right.

It's probably not how things should be, how things should operate.

And, you know, maybe I, you know, I'd see, you know, Coach Hunter at the time be really upset.

And I look, I'm like, oh, coach, we'll have a conversation with them.

And I didn't probably understand the gravity of those small instances that impact actual winning and actual togetherness in a program.

So just going through that, you know, from when I got there in August to May, just seeing how much all that little stuff day to day that has nothing to do with basketball, 99% of the time impacts winning, and that's winning on and off the court.

It just changes your mindset really quick.

But when you're young and no, I wasn't a guy that got in trouble or did any of that stuff, so I probably didn't understand when someone didn't.

Right.

So it just really changed my view on the day to day how important all that stuff really is.

Yeah, I do think that anybody that I've talked to that gets into coaching for the first time and maybe didn't have somebody who already worked in the coaching profession that was a part of their life, I think the thing that always surprises them is the amount of different things outside of actual coaching of basketball that A, you have to do, but also b, as you said, that have an impact on winning and losing.

And I think as a player.

Right.

You.

You never have the perspective really, of what the coaching staff is doing.

I know when I was playing college basketball, I was like, I show up for practice and I'm there for my three hours, and coaches probably get there 15 minutes before I do, and they probably leave 15 minutes after practice is over.

I'm in the shower and whatever I'm going to eat at the dorm, and they're already home.

And obviously nowhere near the truth as to what.

As to what the coaching staff is doing, but I think if you haven't been around it, you really.

You really don't have a good grasp on all the things that go into running a successful program that have nothing to do with the actual coaching of basketball on the floor, which I think is something that, again, a lot of players, if you don't have coaches that you've lived with in your home or somebody in your family, I don't think a lot of players realize the amount of time that coaches put in.

It's just.

I just don't think they.

You have a perspective of that as a player?

Oh, absolutely.

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All right, tell me a little bit about getting an opportunity after you're have.

You've been an assistant, you get an opportunity at.

You're at Albright for a year, you're at York for two, you go to Scranton.

Then you get an opportunity to be.

To be a head coach.

Tell me a little bit about the transition from being an assistant to being a head coach.

Oh, it's.

It's funny.

Carl Danzig's like a second father of me, a head coach at University of Scranton.

I'll never forget my first week where I've been practicing.

Yet I said, hey, man, you want me back?

This is A lot.

And it's interesting, you know, you know, my situation.

Strange.

It was my third time taking over a job, going to Drew, but going back to Abington that first time, like realizing what needs to be done.

You just get overwhelmed with the day to day.

I think, um, and especially at the Division 3 level, because I, I think it's 90% everything else, 10% actual basketball.

@ our level, because you're doing everything.

You're an academic advisor, you're making sure guys are taking the right classes, they're going to graduate on time, making sure you have the right people in the program.

At the same time, when you take over the program, I'm trying to make sure I'm building those relationships with the young people that are there.

At Abington, we had a ton of older guys, a lot of guys have been in the program that just didn't.

Haven't seen a lot of success, but were really, really hungry.

So I think, you know, my energy and whether they were doing the right or wrong things before on and off the court, you know, it's almost irrelevant.

I think it was just, you know, a new face, a new voice, a new energy.

So I really, I've really made sure I was in that office every single day.

They saw me, they understood how important it was to me.

And that's the simplest of tasks.

I mean, it could be sweeping the floor before, you know, practice.

Like I'm going to do the best of my ability.

So I've really tried to pride myself on that, on all that little stuff so they kind of could feel who I was as a person before I ever told them they need to jump to the ball or fight over the ball screen or be up to touch in the ball screen.

Right.

So I really worked really, really hard to build those relationships.

But yeah, to say, not to sit here and say I wasn't overwhelmed and I, I'd be a liar.

And I say this to everyone the first time you take over a job, especially at Division 3, because it's just you, especially these smaller Division 3 schools, everything is on you.

So.

And actually a coach of the psac, the coaching has now gave me some of the best advice ever.

You know, it is what you make it.

And for me, I don't know if this is a good thing, but this is my life.

Like, I, I love what I do.

I love being in the gym.

And if I had, did I have an idea what I was doing those first six, seven, eight months?

Probably not, but, you know, you just keep throwing things at the wall and mixing up ideas.

I think I was a little bit lucky with taking over Abington because I was an assistant for so long and man, Carl Danzig, he is.

He's fantastic.

And he taught me so much, and not about basketball, just how to treat young people and how to be patient when it's time to be patient, how to push when it's time to push.

And I would have never been able to do what I helped that program do.

I hate saying I.

We would never be able to do what we did as a program at Abington if it wasn't for Carl Dantic and spending all that time with them.

But no, it was overwhelming.

There's nothing but, you know, I get emotionally been talking about that year because those guys did everything for me and helped me get to where I got to get to.

But I would have traded it for the world.

And it was an unbelievable experience.

When you went into that year, obviously you had played for coach under several different head coaches.

How did you go about, for lack of a better way of saying it, collecting things that you wanted to be a part of your program, Good and bad things from your head coaches?

Hey, I like this.

Hey, I don't like that.

Hey, if I'm ever in this situation, this is what I would do.

Hey, if I'm ever in this situation, I really didn't like the way that.

That maybe I would try something different.

How did you go about sort of organizing those thoughts?

Were you collecting the old fashioned three ring binders?

Are you going Google Drive?

Are you.

What's.

What's your process for organizing yourself so that eventually, if you were to get that opportunity, which you eventually got at Abington, how are you, how are you preparing for that when you were an assistant in terms of collect.

Collecting basketball things?

For lack of a better way of.

Saying it, yeah, I will say that was.

That is one of the things that helped me big time was being around so many different coaches.

Because like you said, you.

You just.

You find.

You find information, things you like, things you don't like.

How guys speak at practice, how they run practice, what they believe in offensive, defensively.

And I can say this.

I think I got this from my grandma.

I don't throw anything out.

For some reason, it's kind of strange for my generation.

Big believer in three ring binders.

I have a binder from every season I ever coached.

I think I still have every practice plan I've ever been a part of, any notes I've taken on, or whether it was Coach Hunter, Coach Ferry, Coach Danzig, Coach Danzig wrote everything on pencil.

So you can imagine they're starting to, like, that's starting to fade a tad.

All the practice plans, but I still have them all in binders and I would always use them.

I mean, I remember my first week of practice just flipping through binders over the last.

Oh, my God, eight, nine years as an assistant, just figuring out pre practice stuff.

I liked the way, the pacing.

I like that practice.

So just picking up as much information I can.

Another thing I really try to do is I try to write a lot of things down when I hear them.

I don't think I have the best memory, but if I write something down, I'm pretty good with it.

So just collecting as much information as I can from the people that are within my, you know, my circle, the.

My mentors.

And then another thing I. I think that's helped me a ton is just going to a ton of different practices growing up and, you know, level to me is not a big driver in my coaching career.

But the thing I love about going to a Division 1, Division 2 practice is, you know, obviously they're going in the summer, they're going earlier, they're just so much further ahead than you are at the Division 3 level.

So you kind of just pick up a different.

A different pace, a different process because they can.

They can move a little bit different, they can spend more time on certain things.

So you find little details, little touches.

So I've been to a bunch of different Division 1 practices over my eight, nine years.

Moving, moving over the time.

And the other thing that's helped me too is just being a twin is a blessing in a way in this profession because it's created such a larger network for me, just knowing that Adam's, you know, creating this network, I'm creating this network, and then we're so close where we just.

We have each other to bounce ideas off of as well.

So I've been blessed in that regard too.

But, you know, I'll have a binder heading into Drew to.

I'll have two binders with notes and practice plans going to.

Can't get away from it.

It's just who I am.

How often do you talk to your brother during a season?

Oh, man.

So we had some weird situations where two years we played each other, we split one on one.

He got me the last one, so that stinks.

We did beat him the first time.

I felt really good.

I was hoping we wouldn't have had to play him again.

But then Cabrini had him on the schedule.

He's giving me a hard time because it's a home game.

You know how it is, a coach.

So I was like, damn.

Okay.

So we went and.

But, you know, we had to do what to do.

We got to.

We will never play each other again, I hope, unless it's at the NCAA tournament level.

And then I wouldn't care at all.

But during the season, oh, man, we.

It's embarrassing how much we talk.

We're best friends.

We probably talk two, three times a day, whether that's texting each other, nonsense, just jokes.

But usually in season we'll call each other.

We'll always bounce ideas off each other, especially now that, you know, we're kind of outside the realm of playing.

You know, we'll probably recruit against each other a little bit, being in the Mid Atlantic region, but I just, I don't see us playing.

So it just creates way more conversation.

And I love it because I do think we're similar in the way we look at the game offensively and defensively.

But I do think our coach style.

Our coaching style is a little bit different.

So now he's been a great resource for me too.

So honestly, to answer your question, probably talk too much.

Well, let's put it this way.

There's nobody that you're going to trust more to bounce an idea off of, right?

You know that, you know, you put that idea out there and your brother's going to give you honest feedback and you guys can help one another and, and clearly with your different experiences and just to be able to have somebody that you're that tight with, to be able to pick up the phone and just have them as a resource, I can only imagine is invaluable.

Just thinking about the guys that pick up and call, people that they work for, people that they worked with, you know, everybody's got a network.

But to be able to have your brother that is in a similar position to you and again, has gone through some of the same experiences, and yet, as you said, there's still enough difference that his input can be valuable to you and your input can be valuable to him.

I can only imagine just, again, the value of, of one another as, as a basketball resource beyond all the family stuff and everything that goes in with a.

To, you know, to having a sibling.

So very cool that you guys are able to, you know, again, maintain that kind of relationship despite the fact that, you know, you had to, you had to match up with each other on the, on the sidelines, which I'm sure is, again, a, A Series of.

A series of mixed emotions there.

Without.

Without a doubt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mixed emotions is the perfect way to describe it.

It's.

It was neat for everyone that was involved.

It was not fun for my brother.

And I. Yeah, I'm sure.

I, I can only, I can only imagine what that, what that was like, emotionally trying to figure out how to, how to handle it and how to, how to go about coaching against your brother.

It said had to be tough.

All right, let's move to your next job, which is a pretty unique situation.

There are very, very few people who have experienced what you experienced at Cabrini.

So just give our audience an idea of what that was like, taking the job, and then you get some news dropped on you shortly thereafter.

So walk us through that.

Yeah, I, I, I mean, I was ecstatic.

The Cabrini, that's a brand name, especially being from the Philadelphia area as a destination job for me.

And I said, that's a.

Probably a place I would have never left.

Right.

You know, I'm Division 3 guy, and I.

You could be very successful there.

It's been proven.

You know, Marcus Kahn, John, Zeke.

Those guys are legend, and those guys have done an unbelievable job.

And it was tough.

You know, we had about six, seven weeks.

Worked really, really hard to flip the roster.

Kind of got caught in a rebuild on top of, you know, the school closing, getting that news.

So just a really difficult situation.

I say this to everyone.

I've been asked this a billion times, and, you know, I was obviously on d3hoops talking about this.

People ask about, you know, how it was, what it was like, and the Kate Corcoran know, the AD people don't understand.

Kate Corcoran is one of the best athletic directors I ever worked for.

I, I love that woman.

She's.

She's fantastic.

I have no ill will to anyone involved.

It was just a terrible situation.

Well, yeah.

Am I sure some people knew and information didn't get out a thousand percent.

Would that have changed the decision?

You know, if I had that a little bit before, maybe.

But looking back on it now, it's probably one of the best things that happened to me.

One, it made me a better coach, made me a better person, made me more patient, human.

And those relationships, the student athletes and the young guys that stayed in the program with me, I mean, I love those guys.

I would do anything for them.

And.

Yeah.

Do we lose four starters right off the rip after the news?

Absolutely.

And the competitor, I mean, was I sad?

Yes.

I'd be lying if I told you I Wasn't.

But to know that, you know, we've rallied and had a season and were competitive in a lot of games in a schedule that we probably shouldn't have been playing at that time, where the program was at, it's something I'm actually really proud of in a weird way.

And to be able to get through it, you know, I would have never got it through without the loved ones in my life, too.

I mean, don't get me wrong, they probably heard me complain a lot because it was tough.

And, you know, you want to win games and you get in it to, you know, win and do great things and leave this lasting legacy.

And they know it was only one year and there was no real legacy to be.

To.

To be had and, you know, just really trying to, you know, steer the ship for a year and make sure that, you know, a program like Gaborini has a graceful landing.

I did take a lot of pride in that, but there were tough times.

But it, you know, it made me who I am, and it absolutely made me a better coach.

And I hope that those guys, and they know this, that I'm in their lives forever.

And I hope it made them stronger as well, too, because, you know, going through that kind of adversity, especially as a young person, I mean, that should prepare you for anything.

And yeah, there's tough times whether you're, you know, you're closing or not, but for them, everything's kind of time multiplied by 10.

I kind of worded as with them, but the fact that we made it through and they know I'm in their life forever and.

And hopefully they'll use me as a resource forever.

Something I'm really, really proud of.

And yeah, did I want to be a coach and continue to build that program and get it back to where it was when they were in the national title.

Hell, yeah.

But you know what?

That's life.

And to sit here and complain about it and kind of be the victim, it's not going to do anything for you anyway.

So you got to kind of swing, you know, get.

Make the most out of a tough situation.

And hopefully, looking back, you know, even 10 years from now, I can still feel this way, because right now I still do.

I. I feel like we did the most with what.

With the hand we were dealt, with.

The conversations, like with the guys who decided to stick around.

What were you talking about in the locker room?

Just in terms of keeping guys heads up, keeping their spirits up, making sure that they understood that despite the fact that there wasn't necessarily a long term future at Cabrini, that what they were doing in the moment, that it was important and that it mattered.

How did you guys talk about that when you were in the locker room together, you and the players?

Yeah, you know, first and foremost, it was really important to just create a safe space.

So not that I really, you know, throw it at them every day at practice, but I just tried to remind them how important every single day is indirectly to value that.

And honestly, the value, you know.

Yeah, you don't want to take pride because you want to represent Cabrini the last year, but then the day that was the last time that group was going to be together.

Those friendships will look different, feel different moving forward, because you're not going to see him in the gym every day.

You're not going to be doing two line progression with them every single day to get warmed up for practice.

So for me, it was really pushing those relationship relationships and that brotherhood and valuing our time together because it was so limited, especially for, you know, the team was basically freshmen and sophomores.

So reminding them that, hey man, let's get the most out of this.

And, you know, whether we got better that day or didn't, you know, they need to understand that, you know, it's not going to look the same wherever you end up that next year.

So having those conversations with them and then I thought a really important thing for the group was making sure that I was never negative in that gym.

Every time I walked in the gym, every time I had an individual meeting, team meeting, film session, I was never showing any kind of sadness, any kind of oh, woe is me.

Because guess what, life is hard.

And almost that situation, yeah, it's a very difficult situation, but that's a microcosm of life in a way.

I mean, everyone is going to struggle with something, whether it's known or unknown.

I mean, our situation is just extremely visible.

So for me, you know, I want to make sure that they understand.

Yeah, I'm sad, it's hard, but they need to know, hey, I'm still working 10, 12 hour days to make sure that our scout's right, that I'm mixing up our practice plan every day to keep it fresh, that I'm having conversations with our leadership team about what's going on among the group and how we can get better.

So really it was trying to keep the situation as normal as possible in an extremely unnormal situation and just keeping our.

And keeping that positive, that positivity and no.

Yeah.

When we won, did we Celebrate a little bit harder than we probably would have in a normal year.

Absolutely.

But I also wanted to know how valued they were.

And they did some really special things as a group in a really quick time.

And.

And the support we did get from the alums and the community, the Cabrini alums, that was special.

I've never seen anything like that.

And how much they supported the young men in our program.

I'll never forget that.

When that season ends and obviously everyone knows that they're going to have to move on to someplace new.

Yourself and all the players, how did you, in addition to working on your own job search, how did you help your guys to find their next landing spot?

What was that process like for you?

It was emotional.

There was a lot of ups and downs, because the reality of it, some of those guys were never going to play again and.

Or get the opportunity to play again.

And it breaks your heart, um, because, you know, timing in life is everything.

Situation, et cetera, et cetera.

But, you know, we had individual meetings with, with each and every.

Every single guy and told them, hey, you know what, what's important to you?

What school as your major do you want to stay, you know, in the Philly area?

You know, where do you see yourself?

And then they, you know, told them when we, when they came in, they have a list of five to 10 schools.

I called a ton of schools last year and was just extremely transparent.

And that's hard because you get caught in that fine line of selling your student athlete because you care about them deeply and you love them, but you also got to be honest with.

With colleagues and other coaches because that's your reputation too.

So there were some very difficult conversations.

And I think I. I learned a lot about myself and, and this industry as a whole during all that.

But at the end of the day, I was doing everything I can to get our student athletes to different programs.

And, you know, you also have student athletes that probably want to try to get to a higher level, and having those conversations is hard.

And who am I to tell someone that, hey, you know, don't try.

I mean, you should always try, but you also got to tell them the truth, too.

Right?

So just a lot of operating in that gray area with our student athletes and having some tough conversations, but also being truthful with them too.

So I'd like to, you know, I think I'm pretty sure 55, 60% of our guys fail new homes and still text with a majority of them, you know, bi weekly, monthly.

And I'm really proud of that, I mean, is it ideal for some of them?

Is their playing time look a little bit different at certain places?

Probably, but I'm just happy they're getting education and continuing to play the game they love.

Tell me about your job search.

Yeah, that was tough.

After Cabrini was tough and I think I just said it.

But timing in this profession is everything.

You have one good year, you exceed expectations, you break school records, you're really, you have it, you have that juice, you have that aura and it just moves different.

The job search moves different.

So it's really interesting for me, you know, after going from Abington to Cabrini, I had some good options and, you know, my name just carried a little bit more weight.

Right.

I can say this now.

After Cabrini, we didn't do great and yeah, you know, as many Division 3 jobs didn't open up in our region and you know, the area that I want to stay in within a 3 hour radius, 4 hour radius of Philadelphia, maybe a little bit further.

It was a little bit of humble pie.

Right.

You go from being really confident, feeling really good, and it was hard.

And for me not to sit here and say I wasn't emotional about it and just couldn't really get anything going.

I had some, some phone interviews and great coaching jobs.

I just, just couldn't get anything moving.

And if I didn't have the support system and the coaching mentors and friends in this profession I had, I, who knows, maybe I would have been out.

Right.

Um, so yeah, it was extremely emotional and tough and, you know, I'm blessed.

Coach Stitzel, Casey Stitzel, my brother worked for him a long time ago.

The timing was perfect.

His two assistants got head coaching jobs at Division 3 institutions and he knew I was head coach and I was looking to stay in it.

And he, you know, there was just a natural trust because we knew each other as friends first.

He gave me a great opportunity and I loved it.

He taught me a lot, taught me a lot a lot about life.

And he's an unbelievable manager, manager of people.

I've never seen anything like it.

He's probably the best I've ever seen do it.

And you know, it's funny, I think in the PSAC division too, you're managing a lot of big personalities and he was great and he taught me so much about that.

And making that call to the guys at Millersville to let them know I was leaving, it was emotional, it was hard.

Like every coach would tell you, that's probably one of the worst parts about the jobs.

Because especially going back to assistant, you know, I'm not the heavy end anymore.

I can build those relationships, and I did really enjoy that.

I will say that for that year, those guys were coming to me, that they stopped coming to me when I was head coach.

So it was really hard.

I mean, they have great people in that program.

It's one of the best Division 2 programs in the region.

They're going to be trending towards the country.

And that's all because of Coach Stitch on the people he brings in.

But, no, that process was very difficult until I got settled in there.

And, you know, I love that.

Probably do anything for them in that program, but moving three times in three years was not enjoyable.

I do love Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Big proponent of the city.

It's great.

But knowing I have to move again here in the next couple of weeks, it's a lot.

It's been a lot.

So just a different journey.

Everyone has their own path, so it just works the way it does.

Right?

Having been a head coach and then going back to being an assistant, you just mentioned that one of the things that's different is that relationship with players.

Right?

Players are going to be much more likely to come to the assistant coach and ask questions, confide all those types of things, because again, ultimately, as the assistant coach, you're not the one making that decision about who plays and who doesn't play.

But when you think about your two experiences as a head coach and then coming back to being an assistant, did you learn anything as a head coach that made you a better assistant?

Did you look at the assistant coaches through a different lens that helped you to become a better assistant When.

When you go back to Millersville?

No, absolutely.

And Casey.

Coach Ditzel and I. Casey and I talk about it all the time.

It was hard.

The two.

The first two months were very difficult because, you know, you're in charge, you know, you're doing things your way.

You have your thoughts, and then, you know, obviously I'm trying to feel him out as a head coach, as assistant, you're just going to do what's kind of, you know, expected of you, right?

What you're kind of told to do and what you're expecting and just do what the expectations are.

So for me, those first two months, we're tough.

We're just, you know, and coach gave me a ton of freedom.

So I'm not.

I'm not saying I, you know, I wasn't coaching the offensive defense, but, you know, just everyone does things their own way.

It doesn't make it right or wrong.

There's a lot of different coaches that win a dot a lot of different ways.

So we, you know, we worked through that.

But yeah, you know, what helped me the most was, was in game because I knew what he was going through.

I thought I was really emotional.

As an assistant at the University of Scranton, it's something I've really worked hard to get better at.

You know, the highest to high highs, the lowest of lows, you know, getting upset with guys or maybe they're not following the scout, you know, thinking the ref is really out out to get you, when really that's not the case at all.

But then, you know, coming from the head coach role to the assistant coach role, you know, I really just tried to stay super positive for coach.

And if he looked over at me and.

Because as a head coach, sometimes, you know, you get that look where maybe you're losing it a little bit because you just think things are going against you or guys just started locked in.

I really just tried to be, you know, super positive and just say, coach, hey, let's try this.

I think, you know, he's going to be okay.

Just stay with him.

You know, just.

Just in my voice and my tone was so much not as frantic because I.

Because I've done it.

I've called those timeouts.

I've been in those really hypersensitive situations as a head coach or just trying to keep that easier.

Keel was a little bit easier for me going around the second time.

And I think that day to day, being that bridge from head coach to player, because I've been in that mode, like going back, back being assistant again, I thought I did a much better job having the relationships with the players, but also kind of being able to communicate to Coach Stitzel, you know, what they think, what's good, what's wrong, and kind of being that in between of that buffer zone just in a much more productive way instead of just siding with either side because that's what they want to hear.

At that time, I thought I could work that situation much better because, you know, as head coach, you're always going to have some guys a little upset with you.

Right.

You're determining playing time.

And that's.

That's part of that experience that we were talking about earlier.

So I thought I could work that and massage that situation a little bit better because I understood what Coach Stitle was going through because I've done it for two years.

Yeah, it makes sense.

I mean, I think that that's one of the things that as an assistant coach, if you've never been a head coach, I don't think you necessarily understand all of the decisions that have to be made.

And then also understanding that you have to, as the head coach, live with slash handle the ramifications of those decisions.

Right?

As an assistant, it's easy to sit and say, hey, we should do X or hey, player Y should play more minutes, or hey, player Z should play less minutes.

And it's easy to say that as the assistant coach.

But when you're the head coach and you have to make those decisions, then there are ramifications all the way down the line and oftentimes things that assistant coaches don't even think about.

And I think once you become a head coach, to your point, I think you become more aware of and empathetic of not just the decision itself, but everything that goes around the decisions that are made in a program.

It's never just, well, if we do A, then B is going to happen.

Well, guess what?

If you do A, there's B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I.

There's all these things down the line that are impacted that I think as an assistant coach, you're not, you're not always aware of it if you haven't been in that head coaching seat.

And I think head coaches understand that.

And sometimes it's difficult to convey that to an assistant who hasn't been a head coach because they just don't, they just don't get it, for lack of a better way of saying it.

I can speak to that myself.

I was a long time at the beginning of my career, a long time high school varsity assistant.

And I look back on it now and think about some of the suggestions that I made or things that looked like a really easy.

I'm like, what do you mean?

Like just, just do that.

And I remember my head coach saying, well, yeah, we could, but, you know, and then going through and listing all the potential consequences of that decision, good and bad.

And yet you just as an assistant, you don't process it in the same way because it's not going to be your name attached to the decision.

You're not going to have to answer for that decision.

You just get to sit over on the side and smile and be like, yes, you know, whatever.

And the head coach is the one who has to deal with it.

I think that that value of, of being in one position and going back to the other, I think there's value in both directions and that you, you learn A little bit more about what the other person's role is.

And I think you value it more and you understand it more, and it makes you a better.

Whether it's a head coach or an assistant, having been in that.

Each of those roles before, if that makes sense.

No abs.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

All right, so now let's jump to getting the job at Drew.

At Drew.

And we talked about it off the top, and you mentioned just a little bit about the process of.

Of how the job comes open your ties to it, what made it attractive to you.

So for those people who.

Just to kind of give you a timeline, Ryan's announced as the head coach, we're in.

We're conducting this interview on July 16th.

Ryan got the job officially right.

On Monday the 14th.

So we're.

We're 48 or 48 hours into the job.

So what are the.

What's this 48 hours been like in terms of the things.

Boots on the ground.

What have you.

What have you done with this?

48 hours just to kind of get the thing rolling in the direction that you want it to go.

What.

What's some of the first things that you've done here in the.

In the.

In the first hours?

Yeah, it starts with building those relationships.

So, you know, get in front of the.

Get in front of the returning student athletes.

Calling them some zooms, just.

Just kind of letting them know who I am.

And.

And the situation a little bit different.

Right, because they had success last year.

Coach Mike McSloy, man, he.

He killed it.

Did a great job.

He's a great guy, and he deserves, you know, credit to him.

He's.

Ithaca does a great job, too.

So it's just different because, you know, they're a little bit anxious.

They want to continue to win.

So trying to make sure, you know, building those relationships, kind of let them know who I am.

So that's kind of been my main focus right now.

And then the other piece, you know, building off that, they've had success.

They got a lot of returners back who have.

Have done a lot of good things over the last couple of years for the program.

So a little bit different than Abington and Cabrini.

Not as stress at trying to find, you know, late incoming potential players.

For us, it's more so maybe finding a piece here or there that can plug in for some of the graduating guys.

So I've been, you know, absolutely, you know, calling my friends and reaching out to student athletes that I knew from my time at Millersville, you know, trying to fill a hole here.

And there and then it's just.

It's just.

It's figuring out the staff.

So, you know, two guys that alums of the program, they're on staff.

So just getting to know them better, you know, build that trust, build that rapport, figure out what they want to do with their coaching career so I can be a mentor for them and help them and just try to get on the same page as quick as possible.

So that's really what it's looked like so far.

And then, you know, building those relationships across campus.

So obviously having, you know, conversations with admissions development alumni, just.

Just let them know who I am and shooting some emails off and letting them know that, you know, I'd love to meet face to face when that time comes.

Hopefully in the coming weeks.

As you know, moving can be very tricky.

So trying to figure that out and then just working through that progress.

But right now it's just building those relationships, kind of getting everybody on the same page of what our plan will be here moving forward, and then trying to find some late last pieces.

But it has been a whirlwind these last 48 hours.

I know we talked about a little bit earlier in the week, but all exciting.

And the one thing I will say, the young men that Mike recruited in this program, and they've been great from the start, throughout the interview process to now, just their care level, they're understanding the program.

You can tell they're still hungry, and they just want a league championship, which you can't ask for much more.

So they've been very welcoming to me, making me feel like, you know, I'm already a part of it, so.

And that's hard, and that's different in every program, in every situation.

So kind of just doing that and just building that relationship and then working towards a little bit more every single day.

So starting with the players and those conversations you mentioned that you want the players to be able to get to know you, obviously you're trying to get to know them.

You want them to try to get to know you.

Clearly, whenever there's a coaching change, returning players, there's a little anxiety there, right?

You have guys maybe who had a good relationship with Coach McLoy, maybe they were in the lineup, they're getting minutes all of a sudden now they're looking at it going, well, the new guy might have a different opinion, maybe somebody at the back of the roster who didn't play as much.

Maybe they're looking at it.

They're super excited because, hey, it's a new Opportunity.

I get a chance to impress the new guy and maybe move my stature up in the program.

But when you're talking to them and you say that you want them to get to know you, what are the one or two key things that you're trying to get across about who you are as a person and as a coach to the guys on your team?

In other words, how are you selling yourself to them in terms of your vision of the program?

And, you know, you're clearly still getting to know them from a personnel standpoint and how they're going to play in the team and all that kind of stuff.

So I don't want you to dive too deeply into that.

But just what are you selling about yourself to those guys that are returning, that you're trying to get it off on the right foot in terms of them believing in you?

Yeah, a big thing for me, and I hope you can hear this on this podcast.

I love what I do.

I have an energy about me.

I promise this isn't fake.

It's just who I am.

And I want every young man that's in our program to understand what I'm about to, what's important to me.

And.

And I'm a big transparency guy.

So it is very interesting where the program is because they did graduate some key pieces.

And like I said, there's guys that are returning, but their roles are a little bit different.

You know, we'll most likely be asking more of that.

Right.

So just having those conversations with saying, hey, you should be hungry, right?

Yeah.

You guys want a championship, but don't you want to be the guy out there shooting, you know, shooting more shots or averaging this or doing this?

So just kind of, you know, introducing those ideas to the guys returning and saying there's plenty of opportunity and letting them know that, you know, I'm going to have a passion and pushing them and helping them get to where they want to get to.

You know, we're losing, the program's losing all league guys, and letting them know, hey, I'm going to do everything I can to push you and get you to that level and help this program maintain the level it has done under Coach McSloy.

But really, for me, in those conversations, it's trying to be as human as possible and not necessarily as coach, you know, letting them know who Ryan is and not just Coach Ryan, Coach Van Zells, and let them know how excited I am, because I think they should feel my excitement for the job, too, because you mentioned it.

They were a little bit anxious.

So they don't want someone coming in here just like, oh, yeah, I got the job, guys.

Hey, you know, we'll meet here.

No, I want them to know, hey, like, I'm ecstatic to be the next Head Bend basketball coach at Drew, and I'm going to do everything I possibly can every single day I can to get you where you want to go, not only on the court, but also in life.

And, yeah.

Is that always going to go smooth?

Absolutely not.

But they need to know my care level, my passion and my transparency, my honest, and those are honesty.

And those are all kind of the things that we talked about in those conversations.

And I let them know that, yeah, new coach comes, new opportunity.

And, you know, and I, you know, they played really fast and press, and there's probably a lot of things that will do very similar that they did last year based on what the roster is, but at the same time, it's going to look different, it's going to feel different, it's going to sound different, and they need to understand that.

So kind of just putting that all out there and getting ahead of some of those.

Some of those things where whenever there's change in anything in life, especially in coaching, there's going to be a little bit of friction at times.

So you're trying to kind of build those relationships so that when things do go a little bit awry or things feel a little bit different for the returners, that they're comfortable enough to talk to me about it.

Right.

So just kind of letting them know who I am.

Is there a question or two that one of the players asked that stood out to you as being interesting, particularly astute, something that kind of caught your attention, that maybe you were like, oh, that was interesting that that particular player asked me that.

Is there something that somebody asked that kind of made you think or.

Or piqued your interest about more about that player?

Maybe just.

Just brought up something that you're like, oh, that's an interesting guy there.

Well, it's interesting.

Most all the interviews I've been on and young people I've met that, you know, heading into a program, they all ask, how.

How do you like to play?

What's your style?

It's funny, they've had a ton of success doing it.

So two of the young men in the program were like, hey, are we pressing?

And that was just so specific.

Like, I usually don't get specific, specific questions like that.

And I was like, well, that's when we did a cabrady.

I'm very familiar so we will continue to have this conversation.

But.

And that's what's the difference between taking over a program that's had success compared to situations that I took over at Abington and Cabrini where they just, you know, it didn't necessarily really matter, X and O's.

They just wanted change, something new where these guys have had success doing it one way.

So it's more of a conversation.

It's kind of the way I've worded it and thought about in my mind where it was so specific in what they were asking it did.

It kind of like took me back.

I was like, oh, okay.

Like you have a absolute definite interest in how we're going to play full court defense.

So let me ask you along those lines.

Clearly you have a way that you like to play.

So in an idealized world, tell us the way that you'd like your teams to look and then how much do you adapt that year to year based on your personnel?

Clearly at the college level you can recruit and try to get guys that fit to your system, but as you know, every year your personnel is slightly different and maybe you got to tweak some things.

So I guess give me the idealized version of Orion Van Zell's team and then maybe give me an idea of how much do you kind of tweak around the margins with that year to year.

Yeah, I consider myself a defensive guy just because I did it so long.

It's friend.

I was a coach of defense.

So toughness is first and foremost.

There's got to be a certain competition level.

And by toughness it's not talking honestly, it's discipline.

And I think coaches that have coached against teams I've coached, they feel, you know, they think we're pretty disciplined, pretty organized.

There's a rhyme or reason for what we're trying to do.

Defensively, I do believe in picking up full court, having a presence.

And honestly it's not so much, hey, we're going to play crazy and run around and run and jump and trap, everything.

It's more of having a presence and setting the tone.

Especially on the road.

Playing a Saturday game at 3 o', clock, it's letting that opponent know, hey, hey, we're here.

You're going to feel us for these next 40 minutes, right?

So that's a big thing for me.

Big believer in man, the man.

I just, maybe I just don't teach zone well.

I just don't believe in it.

So.

Big believer in man.

You know, it's pack line principles just probably more aggressive in the gaps.

You know, I never been a middle baseline guy.

It's more tendencies on the perimeter, specifically in the slots, wings, you know, just sitting on strong hand, especially at Division 3 level.

I always word it in scouts.

I think a lot of guys in Division 3 are fastball guys.

They, they're really good at one thing and if you can take that one thing away, it really limits who they are.

And obviously we'll have some different packages and how we guard, different actions that we see most especially within the league that we're playing in.

But defensive guy first, all about competition level, all about care level.

And that, that kind of goes hand in hand with playing man to man defense and pressuring the ball and being in the gaps aggressively and stuff like that.

But I know you talked about it, adapting to what we have.

I think offensively that's, that's my style.

It's been interesting over the last three years being at the University of Scranton, we always had really good forwards.

Being at Millersville this past year, you know, we had, we had a young man, he was mvp, the bsac.

He just signed a contract to play professionally over in the Netherlands.

He had to touch the ball, right.

So you're controlling the game a little bit more, a little bit more half court sets, a little bit more.

Hey, you know where the ball's going.

But we're going to dictate what you do when that ball gets in the post, around, around how you play it.

Because he was that good.

And I, and you know, I built comfort with that with Scranton, but when I was at Abington and Cabrini, when I had to be head coach, you know, we didn't necessarily have that inside guy, so played a little quicker.

And I fully envision us to do that at Drew as well.

Just play a little bit more pace.

Whoever gets it off the glass, we're going, getting in.

The simple actions that fit our personnel.

Big believer in ball movement, shot selection, those are the non negotiables with me.

Shot, shot discipline is everything.

I think it's the hardest thing to coach in today's game is, you know, a good shot for so and so is a bad shot for someone else.

And making sure that the team understands that is really, really difficult and takes constant reinforcement and I think that's positive reinforcement.

I don't think it needs to be negative.

But I'm a big, you know, our team's got to move the ball and how we create those advantages where that single side ball screen quick or, you know, pistol action or Something where we're throwing ahead and we're trying to crush the baseline off the balance and get some 45 cuts.

I'm a big believer in that stuff.

And then that allows natural freedom, allows guys to attack closeouts.

So we'll always adapt offensively based on the personnel and obviously the IQ level of our team.

I think the guys were turning for Drew.

I think they have really good minds for the game based on what I saw.

So it allows that game to kind of flow more naturally.

We're at Abington.

I think I just had to control the game more because we had a lot more one on one guys.

So I had to put those guys in position to, to go by and allow that freedom too.

So I think it takes a lot of work, especially you know, in the summer and the non conference and the non traditional season to work really hard to adapt.

But at the same time I think it's more fun to play that way because I'm catering to their strengths and I don't want to recruit any student athletes and say, hey, you're playing my side.

It's just, I just think that's kind of boring, it's kind of cookie cutter and I just don't think that accentuates strength.

So yeah, defensively we're always going to have a certain way because that's what I believe in.

But offensively we'll always shift around some of the few beliefs I do have.

Let me ask you about the ball movement piece of it because I think that when you talk about teams that are successful and I don't care about what level of the game you're talking about, the teams that are the best teams are the teams where the ball moves.

Everybody's unselfish, the leading scorer knows if they move the ball that on a given possession the ball is going to come back to them because everybody believes and plays the same way.

You've seen tons of teams that are like that.

You've coached teams that are like that.

You've probably also seen and been around teams where getting ball moving, getting somebody throw the extra pass, it's like pulling teeth and you just can't, for whatever reason, teams just don't, just don't do it.

So when you think about instilling that in your team, the first part of it obviously is recruiting guys who you see and know and understand that these guys like to move the ball.

But then clearly when you bring a group of guys together, you have to be able to teach that, to emphasize it.

So when you think about day to day in a practice setting, how do you go about making sure that your guys understand how much you value the ball moving, how much you value the extra pass, how much you value the team?

Part of playing together, where it's us collectively getting a good shot, not necessarily one individual player getting a good shot.

I think it's just, it's, it's the, it's the reinforcement of it and it's every day.

There can't be an off day with it.

Um, and that's a combination of on floor.

I'll be honest.

You know, I times we've had really good possessions at practice.

Whether it's 5vo and we're going up and down and the ball's swinging and it's popping and bodies are moving, and whether it's 5v5 and you know, we're in a controlled segment, I'll blow the whistle and I'll go nuts.

I'll be the biggest cheerleader and be like, hey, that's who we are and that's what we want to be.

That's a great shot.

Make or miss, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if the shot even goes in.

It's just more about the quality, right?

So I think that's a piece.

I think the film is everything.

Whether you're showing five great clips of, you know, paint touch, maybe a redrive, maybe a one more shot, and, you know, showing five to six clips of that and letting, you know, each individual student athlete know what they're doing well to help the team, not necessarily just helping themselves, then having those one on one and those small group conversations and saying, hey, yeah, I know you can get your shot off.

And you know, that's a good shot.

Maybe in a shot clock situation, but we're coming down and let's get something easy, let's get something good.

And for me, if it's in the first 5, 6, 7 seconds of a possession and it's wide open, that's still a good shot.

Let's take that one.

So I think it's, it's using all those different avenues, but I really just think it's celebrating.

I think it's letting the guys know how important it is to me as the head coach.

So then they see it and then once they see there's a little bit of success to it and that it's actually helping us win, let's say segments at practice, I think they start, they all start to believe it and that's how you start to develop that trust.

I think trust is everything.

And like we know with any good relationship that takes time.

So just that positive reinforcement over the every day, every drill, every segment, I just think that builds that trust to let them know that, hey, this is, you know, as a coaching staff, myself as a head coach, this is how I believe we're going to win and hopefully getting them on that same page and let them know, hey, that's how they should think we should win too.

So, and you know, it sounds great when we sit here and talk about it and sometimes it doesn't go as smooth.

So just trying to be creative too and finding different ways to let them know that, hey, this is, this is how we want to play.

And honestly, it's probably the most fun way to play.

But having those conversations too helps alleviate some of that stress of guys concerned about maybe getting a certain number of shots.

Because as we know, in most situations, if things are going right, your best guys are going to get the most shots anyway, even if you play that free flowing ball movement style.

But it's also just making sure that they understand that as well.

Yeah, I think the key to what you said there is you can't take a day off from that.

Right.

If that's, if that, if that is a point of emphasis for you and that's something that you want to make sure you instill, then you have to bring that every single day and make sure that your guys understand or celebrate it when they do what they're supposed to do and get the kind of shots that you want to get.

And if they're not, then you call them to the table on that and make sure that it, that, that they get to it and what they need to do.

You mentioned a little bit about just your use of film to be able to show great possessions, to be able to show things that players are doing well.

So when you envision whether it's what you did it, whether what you did at Abington or what you did at Cabrini, in terms of using the film with the players, how much film are you sharing with the players and what's your methodology for doing that?

In other words, how much of it is whole team watching together?

I know you just mentioned a second ago you're doing some individual and position work film in a given week, let's say during the season, how much film are you sharing with the team and what's the format for sharing it?

Yeah, I think during the season, team wise, we're looking team film every two, every three days.

It's probably encompasses the three practices that we had never go longer than 25 minutes.

We just, as we know young, young guys just say they lose it and that's okay.

I probably did too.

And I don't think it can all be negative and I don't think it could all be positive.

I think it's got to be a little bit of both.

Try to work really hard to let each individual know if I'm calling them out.

Hey, everyone's made that same mistake before.

And then let's say a guy is struggling or a guy's losing a little bit of confidence.

That's where in season especially we'll do some of that individual stuff and try to build them up.

Things we've done in the past that I've done in the past is, you know, make highlight films of guys.

Maybe they're just having a bad stretch and putting their favorite song.

I'll text their buddies, hey, what's, what's their favorite song?

Whether they go with a basketball highlight video or not.

Put them on there, send them 30 clips of them helping us win games and making shots and just showing them actually enjoying themselves.

So I think they get caught in that trap and they end like we talked about.

The first question asked me, they lose that joy and that's a big thing for me.

So for me, team stuff is probably every three, every two days.

And then obviously once you get in the games, you start to get a little bit more opponent heavy.

Try to still work in some practice stuff as well.

Just gets so much harder at the Division 3 level because the lack of staff and the lack of resources.

But and then individual stuff in small groups, we're looking at least once or twice a week.

All the way through to individual is more probably when guys are struggling, they just need a little bit of pick me up, to be honest.

What's your top priority between now and when your guys get back on campus in another month or so?

What's the top priority?

What do you, what do you need to get done as a head coach in the next month, five weeks before your guys get back on campus?

Get organized, get organized.

What the schedules look like, what our class schedules look like, what our practice times are going to be, what our lift times are going to be, what's going to be our tough days in terms of classes.

And then also after that, setting up.

And by getting organized means setting up individual meetings.

Like all, all the stuff, the day to day stuff that takes a lot of work, takes a lot of time.

That's everything to me because then it lets us Kind of work towards our goal and allows us to establish our expectations, who we want to be as a program on and off the court.

So for me, I'm trying to get up there as quick as I can.

As we joked about earlier, that's not easy.

But then that allows me to get, you know, the lay of the land, how the day to day works in the office and just allows me to get organizing and make sure that I'm ready to go.

So the guys are ready to go when they arrive on campus.

Final two, part question, Ryan, part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, you're 48 hours into your new job.

So based on the landscape that you've seen to this point, what do you see as being your biggest challenge over the next year or so?

And then the second part of the question is, when you think about what you get to do every day as a college basketball coach, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

Yeah, biggest challenge.

You know, like I said, I'm pretty transparent person.

Mike McCloy did an unbelievable job.

I already said it.

No, continuing that standard that Drew men's basketball is the landmark conference, is a really good league.

There's really good programs, really good coaching.

I think looking at it and, you know, I think every coach puts a little bit of pressure on themselves to do well.

It's probably part of the reason why we do this.

We enjoy it.

So the biggest challenge for me is just keeping this program at the level it's been at and trending in the right direction from winning the league and winning 20 games the year before that, like, trying to maintain that level.

Yeah.

Could there potentially be some dips because of loss of graduation?

Yes.

But that's not an excuse.

Right.

And that's part of the reason, part of the thing that actually excites me about the job.

So that's probably the biggest challenge.

And for me, the reason why I do what I do, I love what I do, is I just love the relationships.

I love watching young people get to where they want to go in life.

And coaches can sit here and say, yeah, I want to make sure my guys get overseas.

I mean, it could be just getting a job selling insurance.

As long as they're happy, they have a family, they got kids, they're living a life that they're super proud of and they're happy.

That makes me emotional.

I had a young man when I got this job at Drew sent me six texts.

Alex Salata at Penn State Edmonton.

He had me crying.

He's doing such great things.

And we went through a lot together that year.

And to me, that's why I coach.

And I probably wear my emotions on my sleeve a little bit with that.

But I also want the guys in the program to know that, like, that stuff's important to me.

Yeah, we want to win games.

Like I just said, our biggest challenge is keeping that thing going.

But for me, like, if we graduate these seniors, these juniors over the next two, three years and they're doing things they love to do, that's a win in itself.

And that's, that's why I coach.

It's why I make sure I'm up every day trying to not only get the program better, but also make myself better too.

So to give them everything I can.

Well said, Ryan.

I think it goes back to earlier in the conversation when we talked about the experience.

Right.

Your goal there, your passion is to provide your guys with an experience that they're going to take with them for the rest of their life, Their life.

And have, it's going to have an impact.

20 years from now, 30 years from now, they're still going to look back, they're still going to pick up the phone and call you and say, hey, Coach.

And again, as somebody who's coached a game and been around it, you know how valuable those phone calls are and those emails that you get from a guy that you coached five years ago or you coached 10 years ago, there's nothing more meaningful because you don't always necessarily, you believe that you're having that impact in the moment, but sometimes it's easy to forget.

And then, boom, it takes one of those, one of those way back phone calls just from somebody that you know that played for you, that's sharing something or is reaching out to you when you have some kind of success.

And it's really what it's all about.

And I think that impact and being able to use the game is truly, I think the most important thing when it comes to coaching is using the game that we love, that you grew up beating up on your brother in the driveway and in the basement and everywhere else, just playing.

You're just playing hoops because you loved it.

And now you're getting to use that game that you loved as a kid to be able to have an impact on other young people.

And to me, when I think about the coaching profession and the game of basketball and just being able to give back to, to the game and give back to the, to the people who are a part of it.

I think that was very well said on your part.

So before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people get in touch with you?

Find out more about your program at Drew, Email, website, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, so I actually just got a Drew email address, so that was big time.

It's R. Van Zelstrew Edu and then on Twitter.

I'm pretty good with social media, especially Twitter.

It's at Coach Ryan VZ and I usually use that a lot too.

So those are probably the best two ways.

Perfect.

Ryan, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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Podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.