00:00:03 Alison
Welcome to mental wealth, the podcast to invest in your mind. Here I will help you make sense of your mind and behaviours, giving you the tools to have your best life there is so much to share...
00:00:15
00:00:17 Alison
So let's get into this episode and explore another great topic.
00:00:21 Alison
So welcome to episode 18. And in this episode, we're going to be talking about the inner critic we all have so many thoughts that are flying into our minds, and we don't always feel like we have control over them, and they can often be quite negative towards ourselves.
00:00:42 Alison
And I'm delighted to say that I'm going to share this space and this conversation with Katie Ford. So welcome Katie.
00:00:49 Katie
Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I've loved listening to previous episodes and this is such an important topic.
00:00:56 Alison
Brilliant. So before we start, please introduce yourself, Katie.
00:01:01 Katie
Thank you. So I spent the last 12 years within the veterinary industry. I spent eight of those working in clinical practise.
00:01:10 Katie
And through my own experiences and quite openly and honestly, many of them through trying to navigate in a critic and understanding that instead of having quite a diverted career path which I never saw coming.
00:01:22 Katie
Which led me down the route of training
00:01:23 Katie
As a coach, I'm just doing a Masters degree in emotional wellbeing.
00:01:27 Katie
At the moment and I've started a number of businesses within the veterinary space, supporting professionals with figuring out what's important to them, amongst other things as well. So this is something I'm really passionate about and I talk about on the ground all the time.
00:01:44 Alison
Brilliant, and it's so important for us to talk about it, isn't it? I mean, that's one of the motivations for me.
00:01:48 Alison
To create this podcast was we need to talk about these things so that we can all be like, OK, it's not just me. It's so important, isn't it?
00:01:56 Katie
Definitely, and that was what opened up my whole story, to be honest. Alison was that I used to think it was just me. I had everything externally that I thought that I'd wanted, that I strived for and.
00:02:08 Katie
Inside, I was listening to the inner critic. I had all these thoughts, but I just saw the highlights reel of everybody else on social media, and it seemed they don't listen to this. And it was when I started cheering up with them my.
00:02:20 Katie
On my own social media profiles, and so I'm posting people and kind of almost unmasking that inner critic to say, hey, we've all got one. It does have many similar stories for us and you are not on your own. And I think how quickly that grew as a profile was testament to just.
00:02:35 Katie
How many of us listen to this?
00:02:36 Alison
Yeah, it's so important, isn't it? OK, so let's just think a little bit about the mind.
00:02:41 Alison
Because I think it's really important for us to get a little bit of a sense of.
00:02:45 Alison
Of how it works.
00:02:47 Alison
Even though it's very complex.
00:02:49 Alison
There are things that if we.
00:02:50 Alison
So it'll help us. So one of the things I think it's important to remember is we do have they say on average, I don't know who sat and counted them 60,000 thoughts a day, so.
00:03:01 Alison
where our minds
00:03:02 Alison
Are constantly busy, but what we also know is that about 90% of those are repetitive and that's partly to do with your routines.
00:03:11 Alison
So you might be doing a very similar thing, getting up, having your cup of tea going for a wee. All these things that are going on, it might be.
00:03:18 Alison
Connected to that.
00:03:20 Alison
But we also know that there's a high chance that a big.
00:03:23 Alison
Chunk of those.
00:03:26 Alison
About yourself? Because the human mind is super selfish. It does only know. There's only me.
00:03:33 Alison
And we are quite likely to be hard on ourselves and quite negative. So I think it's really important that we remember that people often say to me, you know, I'm trying to not have as many thoughts and you know that it's not necessarily a goal, is it to have less thoughts. It's not possible. There are thousands of things. Everything we see will trigger some sort of.
00:03:53 Alison
Or everything we hear, everything that we do.
00:03:55 Alison
So it's important to say that.
00:03:58 Alison
We have a.
00:03:58 Alison
Lot. But what we want to pay attention to.
00:04:00 Alison
It is when it's an inner critic, as we're calling it in this episode, when it's not been kind to ourselves and again, human brain is very likely to go down that default button of be negative.
00:04:17 Katie
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that I see quite frequently is when people understand the concept of the.
00:04:23 Katie
Critic, it almost becomes something that we criticise ourselves about being critical of ourselves rather than what we're going to.
00:04:30 Katie
Talk about and through.
00:04:30 Katie
This episode is as being a little.
00:04:32 Katie
Bit more curious as.
00:04:34 Katie
Understanding the mind a little bit more, bringing some more compassion because once you do raise yourself awareness and I'll share a metaphor that I use within a lot of the businesses that I've got.
00:04:44 Katie
In the veterinary space and in a.
00:04:45 Katie
A book that.
00:04:46 Katie
I have too, but at that moment often we go, Oh my goodness, I'm doing nothing but listen to self critical thoughts, which hopefully with that wonderful intro from Alice and May realise.
00:04:57 Katie
But I'm not alone, and it's very common for our mind to have that negative bias. And I know all touching it more likely go through, but at its root, our mind does want to keep us safe. The inner critic wants to keep us safe. It just has some really warped ways of doing that and it.
00:05:12 Katie
Doesn't feel that way in.
00:05:13 Alison
The moment, but hopefully as we talk through.
00:05:15 Katie
This it's really helpful for people listening.
00:05:17 Alison
I think so. So we can get really stuck in that negative thinking and that can come from the past. It can come from things that you've made-up about yourself. It can come from things that you've been told.
00:05:30 Alison
It can come from patterns and habits of our families, of our parents and teachers. Sometimes I hear people who become aware of their thoughts, and they can almost hear that it's somebody else's voice. It's not even theirs. And I think again, it's really important sometimes to separate that too, that two different things. So the brain.
00:05:51 Alison
Does defer to negative, as Katie said, to keep us safe, so it's likely to be like what?
00:05:57 Alison
If the worst case scenario it's likely to do that and we kind.
00:06:01 Alison
Of need it to.
00:06:01 Alison
Do that, but the bit that we want at home in on today is when it's when you're not being kind, you're not being.
00:06:09 Alison
Let you say, curious about well, why am I thinking this? Is it true? What is it that we need to?
00:06:15 Alison
Do so. Tell us a.
00:06:16 Alison
Little bit more about your experience with that.
00:06:19 Katie
Absolutely. I'd love to and I love everything that you.
00:06:22 Katie
Just shared there.
00:06:23 Katie
As well, so as I would say, one of the things that I've found as I talked more about this concept within my own space than further outside of the battery space too is.
00:06:32 Katie
The idea of.
00:06:33 Katie
Kind of criticising ourselves but criticising ourselves and as time went on and I spoke more about highly evidence topics such as self compassion, which there's a wonderful resource from Doctor Kristen Neff, one of the primary researchers that has put out tonnes of awesome content on that you can find, we can probably pop a link in the show notes to.
00:06:52 Katie
Self compassion.
00:06:52 Katie
Too, there always seems to be a little missing link, so I'll share the metaphor that I view. Certainly it may well help some people.
00:07:02 Katie
It might not.
00:07:02 Katie
Be for other people and that is.
00:07:04 Katie
Absolutely fine and probably very briefly.
00:07:07 Katie
Touching on the fact you've.
00:07:08 Katie
Said. Sometimes we think of this as being someone else's voice for some people.
00:07:12 Katie
Thoughts aren't always words or feel like a voice in our mind. Everybody is different. So we'd ask you think.
00:07:18 Katie
About this in.
00:07:18 Katie
The way that you experience thoughts.
00:07:21 Katie
It's not another point.
00:07:22 Katie
For us to criticise ourselves about if you got, gosh, I.
00:07:24 Katie
Don't listen to.
00:07:25 Katie
Our voice. Yeah. Let's take that pressure off.
00:07:28 Katie
So one of the things that I like to try and explain to people is.
00:07:33 Katie
When we first.
00:07:34 Katie
Start reading our self-awareness which is.
00:07:36 Katie
Is starting to notice more.
00:07:38 Katie
What our thoughts?
00:07:39 Katie
Are how we're feeling and checking in with ourselves. It's almost as if we've been handed the keys to our business. So we started to realise all of the inner workings of what's going on at any one time.
00:07:51 Katie
Now obviously it's been hours the whole time, we just didn't know we were in it. We were just going through life. Things were happening, we were reacting or even responding. Sometimes in certain ways.
00:08:02 Katie
Now what what you imagine is there is one employee that works there and you can't make him redundant. He's there forever. He's been there right from the inception of this business.
00:08:13 Katie
And he actually was head of security at the beginning, but all he can go on is the past. So he can go on just like Allison saying things that maybe he's learned as we've been brought up, perhaps things that he's seen.
00:08:27 Katie
Other people do.
00:08:28 Katie
Things that have happened in the past.
00:08:29 Katie
That he's made some.
00:08:31 Katie
Strange conclusion about that makes perfect sense to him.
00:08:34 Katie
From a safety point of view.
00:08:36 Katie
So let's call him Jim. In fact, we'll call him Germany critic, because that is lines up well with him being the inner critic, one of the biggest frustrations I see is people want to.
00:08:46 Katie
Get rid of it when they understand that.
00:08:48 Katie
It exists like.
00:08:50 Katie
I just need this to be gone.
00:08:51 Katie
It needs to.
00:08:51 Katie
Shut up now and I totally hear you. That is you, because that was me when I first discovered.
00:08:57 Katie
It right I.
00:08:57 Katie
Just need to stop ever having negative thoughts about.
00:09:01 Katie
I'll tell you what that's like playing black.
00:09:02 Katie
And more because that always gonna come.
00:09:05 Katie
Up. So imagine we've got Jim, too many critic, hired a security. He's been there from the start and he can only go off what he's learned previously. He's got his whole set incident logs. Things that have happened in the past things that people have said now he wants to keep us safe but he wants us to fit in.
00:09:21 Katie
As well, because that's safety based too, even going back to ancestry, we wanted to be at a point where we had resources so often as humans.
00:09:31 Katie
So I just compare all the time, taking a little judgement of ourselves to maybe get curious as to.
00:09:38 Katie
Why we might?
00:09:38 Katie
Notice ourselves do that, but again, take the judgement off that it's very normal sometimes for us to have a quick look at what everybody else is doing, so he wants us to fit in. He wants us to.
00:09:48 Katie
Match up and he wants us to stay safe.
00:09:51 Katie
Now, if he thought something dangerous based on the past, he has a big button that he's allowed to press.
00:09:57 Katie
And that is essentially the equivalent of our sympathetic nervous system. Our fight or flight response. And I know we'll touch more on this.
00:10:04 Katie
In a minute, but.
00:10:05 Katie
He says right danger we start to feel it. Maybe our heart rates going up.
00:10:08 Katie
We can start.
00:10:09 Katie
Feeling apprehensive or we can feel on high alert and at that point he felt really loud towards.
00:10:16 Katie
Now he might say ohh there's been a bang. Well that must be this must have happened because this has happened previously or he has some money. Water. He says well, there's a flood in the 1970s. Therefore this must be the same thing.
00:10:30 Katie
So in those moments, we can't really.
00:10:32 Alison
Hear ourselves think, and I know.
00:10:35 Katie
That many people that listen to other episodes on this podcast and maybe dive into this before will know that when our sympathetic nervous system, our fight or flight response has been activated. In that moment, our body just wants us to get away from the danger or to fight it.
00:10:50 Katie
There is no space for rationality at that moment because first of all, our blood flow has been redirected to our muscles to get us ready to go. But secondly, in the interest of survival, it would make perfect sense. Our brain does not want us to make a pros and cons list about whether we should run away from the sabertooth tiger or not.
00:11:08 Katie
It would like us to run now. We still have a similarly functioning brain in the world of emails as they had however many years back. So understanding that in that moment actually helps us to realise that was focusing.
00:11:21 Katie
On how we.
00:11:21 Katie
Could turn that alarm.
00:11:22 Katie
Down so we can actually hear ourselves think and bring on some rationality means that when Jim is shouting.
00:11:29 Katie
Super, Super Loud, we.
00:11:30 Katie
Don't start trying to.
00:11:31 Katie
Have a conversation with.
00:11:32 Katie
Them or we don't start trying to.
00:11:33 Katie
Beat ourselves up. Oh.
00:11:34 Katie
My gosh, you always criticise yourself so much.
00:11:37 Katie
And we'll come onto that just shortly. But just remember, he said he's just commenting all day long. Like I listen. You said 60,000 thoughts per day. Imagine that employee. I'm sure we all remember one from somewhere that we worked that whenever someone's having fun pipes up and says yeah, but like this happens or don't have too much fun.
00:11:57 Katie
This is going on, so the important thing for.
00:12:00 Alison
Us to remember.
00:12:01 Katie
In this metaphor is Jim, we can't get.
00:12:04 Katie
Rid of him. He doesn't like change because change brings risk. Change brings danger. Change brings the potential for us not to fit in or not to be included.
00:12:14 Katie
So there are two things that people tend.
00:12:16 Katie
To do to deal.
00:12:16 Katie
With them and.
00:12:17 Katie
The first one is the one that we'd say let's not do this one, but it's perfectly normal that people try it at various points, just like I've said, because when I first understand this concept of the inner critic, I thought.
00:12:30 Katie
Please don't ever speak to.
00:12:31 Katie
Me again, I'm.
00:12:32 Katie
Just gonna not positive.
00:12:34 Katie
Only so much in our knowledge is that.
00:12:38 Katie
Jim is trying to tell you.
00:12:40 Katie
That something is dangerous. Something is scary.
00:12:42 Katie
You're going to.
00:12:43 Katie
Do something wrong.
00:12:44 Katie
When you raise yourself around so at first you go well.
00:12:47 Katie
It's not me.
00:12:47 Katie
So I'm not gonna listen to it and.
00:12:49 Katie
You shut him in a room and you say.
00:12:50 Katie
Jim, I am not talking to you, but.
00:12:52 Katie
He is so sure this is dangerous, and even though it's a.
00:12:56 Katie
Really strange and walked away.
00:12:57 Katie
For him to try and tell you it's dangerous.
00:12:59 Katie
He is shouting anything that he can do. He is going to eventually start causing physical damage to the walls of that room that you blocked him in and eventually he'll burst out and see.
00:13:09 Katie
Oh my gosh, won't you just?
00:13:11 Katie
Listen to me. I.
00:13:12 Katie
Really have to shout loud for you to.
00:13:15 Katie
Hear me and to understand.
00:13:16 Katie
Me so as an employee and bearing in mind he's.
00:13:19 Katie
Going to be.
00:13:20 Katie
With us for.
00:13:20 Katie
The rest of our life. Let's consider how useful that feels, because to me.
00:13:26 Katie
It really doesn't feel like it's going to.
00:13:27 Katie
Be a long and useful relationship.
00:13:30 Katie
But the second option is for us to be what I'd call the the compassionate boss, which is supposed to understand that actually, first of all, we can look at turning the volume down on the alarm, remembering the alarms up, fight or flight response is our Oh my goodness, something scary is happening here and we need you to get away from that. And here's realms of what's.
00:13:50 Katie
I mean, what's not is based on the past.
00:13:53 Katie
Things have been told.
00:13:55 Katie
So this would be a really good point on the touch on some of the things that we can do when we are experiencing fight or fight with, we're feeling like a heightened sense because we're listening to these inner critic type stories that you'll have loads of things to share here as I listen and I'll.
00:14:14 Katie
Add in a couple too.
00:14:16 Alison
I think one of the things I think springs to my mind when you were talking Katie is we've absolutely established and it's so important for us to remember.
00:14:24 Alison
That it's normal for us to have these responses.
00:14:27 Alison
Their human brain.
00:14:29 Alison
The emotional response gets involved five times quicker than any logic. That's our first thing. So.
00:14:33 Alison
When we know.
00:14:34 Alison
That it's like OK, I need to settle.
00:14:37 Alison
That bit first.
00:14:38 Alison
And I always.
00:14:39 Alison
Think if you've had a lot of self talk, a lot of inner critic.
00:14:44 Alison
And a lot of fear in your life, I would think of it like an alarm system in your house. We need it for the intruders, but sometimes our alarm systems become very, very sensitive and they're going off for all sorts of things. When the postman pops.
00:15:01 Alison
Something through the.
00:15:01 Alison
Door or the wind blows the blinds and the alarm systems.
00:15:05 Alison
Going off, if you know that that's what it feels like to you and some of.
00:15:09 Alison
These techniques that I share across all these podcasts help us be able to manage that, because that is ultimately all we're trying to do. We can't stop the thoughts, can we, as we said, if we're using Jim as your metaphor, you can't. He's not going anywhere. But what we can do is manage gym or manage that.
00:15:30 Alison
Inner critic and I think that's what's so important for us to remember here.
00:15:34 Katie
Definitely. And I love the point that you made about the fact that so many of these responses are that to be activated are sympathetic, nervous system is before we can even think about it from coming from a medical background as a veterinary surgeon for years, we know it's part of our autonomic nervous system. And part of that is also things like controlling our digestive system. When was the last time?
00:15:55 Katie
Maybe thought gosh I.
00:15:56 Katie
Need to sleep at my intestinal motility? It's not been going fast enough.
00:16:01 Katie
Or maybe it needs to increase the blood?
00:16:02 Katie
Flow to my liver like.
00:16:04 Katie
These are things that happen.
00:16:06 Katie
Without us having conscious thought to them. So this is just a note. If we do something, feel that come up to take the judgement of ourselves because it's not something we chose to do or that we could have.
00:16:15 Katie
Stepped in and.
00:16:16 Katie
Said I didn't want this to appear. It's more like you've said, Alice another. OK, what helps me? What can I do in this moment? Because if we come back to the gym.
00:16:26 Katie
Allergy. That's almost like him saying there's tonnes of danger. I'm just going to press this button at every single opportunity. So the first thing is how can we try and on board some more parasympathetic in part, which might be this?
00:16:39 Katie
Site's coming back to the present moment with mindfulness type activities. Some people like breath work, everybody out there is going to have the opportunity to explore the things that help them as individuals, and I I know you'll likely have lots of resources in the podcast.
00:16:54 Alison
To add to that as.
00:16:55 Alison
Well, Alison, definitely, it's for me. It's about capturing those thoughts, isn't it without.
00:16:59 Alison
Judgement and however you do that, if it is bringing your attention into the now.
00:17:04 Alison
Looking at things that are around you, listening to a piece of music, anything that's going to just give you that moment to just pause and then we want to think about what is it that we are thinking is it helpful? Is it not helpful? Is it part of the plan? Is it something that's so old it's out of date?
00:17:24 Alison
Now and one of the things that I think is really useful is to be able to observe almost that thought and just think.
00:17:30 Alison
Ohh, there's that thought again. Rather than let it take over.
00:17:35 Katie
Yeah, that's it. Just like you say, curiosity of criticism and with the German allergy is when we turn that alarm system down a little bit and we feel able to create that space and just get curious, imagine it's the equivalent of inviting you into the office and saying.
00:17:51 Katie
What was that all about?
00:17:52 Katie
Ohk OK noting it down. That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that we.
00:17:57 Katie
Don't end up down.
00:17:57 Katie
A rabbit hole, so the equivalent of him saying let me play you all these movies about what happened previously. You know, we don't need those. I just. OK. What you telling me? You tell me that I have to keep everyone happy. OK, that's really interesting. Thank you for that. We might feel comfortable enough to.
00:18:11 Katie
Be able to say.
00:18:12 Katie
Where did this come from or who told you that? Because the way that this analogy came to me actually was because when I started a job years and years ago.
00:18:22 Katie
It was a practise. It was a veterinary practise.
00:18:24 Katie
Actually, that had been.
00:18:25 Katie
Owned by a lovely family, they just got a very set way of doing things and they've got a set of protocols laminated and attached to every machine in the.
00:18:34 Katie
Building they.
00:18:35 Katie
Kept the manager. He'd been there the whole time while that family were there and the new boss had come along and this new boss.
00:18:42 Katie
Have a new way of doing things and wanting to make changes now. The old manager was very set in his ways of these are familiar to me. This is safe and this is what we do.
00:18:52 Katie
Both of them wanted good things for the business, but they didn't communicate to you very well in the middle. So it became our frustration from both sides and I sit in the office and I kind of observed this where I knew the manager.
00:19:04 Katie
Really cared about.
00:19:05 Katie
The new boss and.
00:19:06 Katie
Wanted to make sure that she wasn't doing anything that might jeopardise her or the business.
00:19:10 Katie
But the new?
00:19:11 Katie
Manager was like, why is he?
00:19:12 Katie
Still stuck in his ways.
00:19:14 Katie
And actually what we probably needed to do is just.
00:19:16 Katie
Sit and have an open.
00:19:17 Katie
Conversation. So that's kind of what creating this curiosity for me and the analogy that I use is.
00:19:24 Katie
OK, Jim, what's what's happening? What's got? Who told you that? Because often it's from the equivalent of an old boss, an old caregiver. Something someone said to us at some point. And sometimes we need help from someone like yourself or listening to sit down and just say, OK, I'm almost putting a.
00:19:40 Katie
Mediator in here.
00:19:41 Katie
To speak between Jim and me, this is what comes up for me.
00:19:44 Katie
All the time. This is what he says.
00:19:47 Katie
And he's going to.
00:19:48 Katie
Have lots of.
00:19:50 Katie
Shots. You know you should do this by this point. This is what you should be doing in your career. This is what you should valuable or this is what you should value. It's going to pipe up at certain times. You might.
00:20:00 Katie
Find certain things.
00:20:02 Katie
Make him shout.
00:20:02 Katie
Louder for you as individuals, I.
00:20:04 Katie
Know for me if I.
00:20:05 Katie
Drink a lot of caffeine.
00:20:06 Katie
In a critic for me, it's.
00:20:07 Katie
Like he's got a loud.
00:20:08 Katie
Hero. At this point, somebody has.
00:20:09 Katie
Made him extra.
00:20:10 Katie
Loud and certain responses to certain hormones. I know he's something that affects her. A lot of people at different life.
00:20:18 Katie
Ages and actually was just in that down time when maybe Jim isn't shouting as loud or the inner critic or calling him Jimmy analogy that I'm using here. But getting to know us.
00:20:30 Katie
Like what do we want?
00:20:31 Katie
What's important to us, so in those moments where you shouting and telling all the.
00:20:35 Katie
Things that you should be doing to try.
00:20:37 Katie
And get you to fit in, you can sit back and.
00:20:39 Katie
We I hear you, Jim. We're going to have a better conversation about this. I understand. That's what you'd.
00:20:44 Katie
Like us to.
00:20:44 Katie
Do thank you. I'm not shutting you in a.
00:20:47 Katie
Room and shutting you out of the conversation, but.
00:20:49 Katie
This is what?
00:20:50 Katie
We're doing this is what's going to stay.
00:20:51 Katie
The same just.
00:20:53 Katie
As we would do, this might sound familiar to people that have been part of businesses and have maybe managed teams about general change management.
00:21:00 Katie
As well I've just.
00:21:01 Katie
Getting curious what what are the?
00:21:03 Katie
Worries and what are the concerns?
00:21:05 Katie
OK. Thank you for sharing.
00:21:06 Katie
Those remember all these times where things did go.
00:21:09 Katie
Well, and just creating this into a separate character and a lot of people talk about naming being a critic as.
00:21:15 Katie
Being valuable but.
00:21:17 Katie
Realistically, rather than us pushing it away, it's about us just having more useful conversations and sometimes quite rightly, like you said, I listen, you might say that's absolute and utter rubbish. Thank you for telling me.
00:21:28 Katie
That, but I don't need that.
00:21:29 Katie
Day and other times. Yeah. We just got curious because it might be something that we've heard a few times before. Like you said. Oh, here's that loss again.
00:21:30
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:39 Katie
This is something that comes up a lot. Where could?
00:21:41 Katie
This have come from.
00:21:42 Katie
Yeah, you told me this.
00:21:44 Alison
I think working out sometimes why we think like.
00:21:47 Alison
You do is where the the worth is. You know the thoughts will come, but if we can don't have to dig massively deep sometimes. But just being able to wonder why you do think.
00:21:59 Alison
That sort of I'm not good enough. What is it that's driving that? And that obviously is a much bigger conversation than this, but I think it's just keeping us in mind of we don't have to believe, you know, as Katie said, we don't have to believe everything that we think we can challenge it. We can say thanks very much, but I don't think that's true. Or is that true?
00:22:19 Alison
So where does that come from? Or sometimes?
00:22:21 Alison
No, no, no. I think you know, just saying to yourself. No, no, no. I'm not thinking that I am not going. There is a strategy in itself.
00:22:32 Katie
Yeah, just not today. Stop saying comes up, yeah.
00:22:36 Katie
Not not going into this one we've covered.
00:22:38 Katie
This ground before and I understand why.
00:22:42 Katie
You know, I used to absolutely hate the anarchistic. I used to hate it when it pops up and I think actually, sometimes when we forgive ourselves for hating, it makes total sense that we would because we've listened to it as an equivalent of someone saying horrible things.
00:22:55 Katie
All the time.
00:22:56 Katie
But actually, to understand they're not the message, they're just the messenger. It's just repeating things from previously at some point. And when we sat to understand that.
00:23:06 Katie
We can start to like you said, bring a little bit more curiosity and sometimes just to say.
00:23:09 Katie
Not today. Yeah, I I.
00:23:11
Hear you.
00:23:12 Katie
But we don't need.
00:23:13 Katie
To because like you said already, I listened to 60,000 thoughts a day. If we were to sit and have a conversation, a conversation with you and a critic about every.
00:23:20 Katie
Single one I've let.
00:23:24 Katie
3/4 of those are in a critical, so half of them these are not exact figures, yeah.
00:23:29 Katie
Get anything done except that all.
00:23:32 Alison
Day exactly. And that's the thing with the mind it. There's a lot of repetition, and for me actually consciously thinking about having thoughts that are useful, healthy, you know, not so that we're not stuck in these deferred negative thoughts. Let's pause. Let's think about something that brings you joy.
00:23:52 Alison
Let's think about things that make you feel happy, make you go out into the garden and have a look at something to think about, cause whatever we're looking at or hearing or seeing.
00:24:02 Alison
Thing it we will create a load of thoughts, go out and make something like that happen so that you have a nice thought about a flower in the garden or the sky or whatever you want so that you can start to challenge that constant ticker tape, yeah.
00:24:19 Katie
There's a wonderful.
00:24:20 Katie
Phrase that I love, which is be a creator.
00:24:24 Katie
So often we can sit and just wait for something.
00:24:27 Katie
Good to appear.
00:24:28 Katie
Like, come on. Something's going to happen at some point, or I'm going to have this feeling about thinking about this and it's going to come and.
00:24:36 Katie
Actually, let's step to the other end of that and be the creator in that because when we step into that role of like you said, with the analogy that I just be the compassionate boss, OK, I hear you, Jim, I understand what your role is in this, but I'm taking the reins of my business back. I've decided what's important to us, how my treating the team, how am I looking after myself?
00:24:56 Katie
And inadvertently with that, everybody else in that team. What's important to us? What do we love doing? I always think of it in this way of, like, employee engagement, in a way too.
00:25:06 Katie
If you've got.
00:25:07 Katie
Gym and every other member of the business that.
00:25:09 Katie
Have suddenly been opened up to.
00:25:11 Katie
What? What am I doing?
00:25:12 Katie
With them, am I going to work them 20 hours a day and then suddenly wonder why none of them want to do the work that they do? Or like you said, I was in my going.
00:25:20 Katie
To head out into the garden and say.
00:25:23 Katie
No, this is 510 minutes or.
00:25:26 Katie
However long we need.
00:25:27 Katie
To create something to check in with ourselves, and often I don't know if you find something about with this concept when you speak to a lot of people with regard to things.
00:25:36 Katie
Like, what brings you joy?
00:25:38 Katie
It kind of ends up being quite polarised in terms.
00:25:40 Katie
Of where I need to go away.
00:25:41 Katie
For the weekend, but maybe this is a challenge to find something.
00:25:45 Alison
In 5 minutes that brings you joy. Not very nice, wouldn't it? Because again, we don't need it to be something that's.
00:25:51 Alison
Time consuming, expensive. You know, for me, the mind is mind literally is. It's like a torch, you know, whatever you are looking at or whatever you point it at, it will bring you a thought. It's an association making machine. So when you look at something, you'll see when you hear something, you'll see something and it's so important to remember.
00:26:11 Alison
You actually have so much more control with your thoughts than you think you do, and with the analogy that he's around, Jim, you know he thinks that he's in.
00:26:21 Katie
Charge of that.
00:26:22 Katie
Business because nobody's had the awareness to have those conversations or.
00:26:26 Katie
Nobody's ever.
00:26:26 Katie
Said, you know, you're not your.
00:26:28 Katie
Thoughts. You're the person underneath list.
00:26:30 Katie
And and when you start to step back into.
00:26:33 Katie
That world love.
00:26:34 Katie
OK, I hear you. And yes, we've talked about the alarm system in that moment. Let's look at the things that help just bring back on board a little bit more parasympathetic stimulation and calm things down. But after that, where are you shining that hotch? Because Jim's got his heart out and he's always gonna be looking for the dangerous things.
00:26:52 Katie
That's his job.
00:26:53 Katie
Yeah. So we can.
00:26:54 Katie
Take the reins back and say.
00:26:56 Katie
You know what, what, little thing?
00:26:57 Katie
Brings me joy. I remember once we.
00:27:00 Katie
Have a huge fish.
00:27:01 Katie
Tank in our living room. My other half is.
00:27:04 Katie
Obsessed with this? He he.
00:27:06 Katie
Loves them and you know, I walked past it every day for years and didn't even think about it. And one day, when I was looking for just 5 minutes of OK, I'm gonna create some joy here. It's that. And he went. I've got an aquarium in my living room and.
00:27:21 Alison
People pay to go to the aquarium.
00:27:24 Katie
Wherever and they just.
00:27:26 Katie
They're here and it's huge. I mean, obviously I'm.
00:27:29 Katie
A veterinary surgeon, so welfare is on points.
00:27:31 Katie
On that side of things.
00:27:33 Katie
Looking to go. This is such a resource in itself. How calming to sit here and to watch them and there will be little things for everyone that we walk past and we become so normal because we've not.
00:27:45 Katie
Shown that light.
00:27:46 Katie
On those things.
00:27:47 Alison
Yeah. And I think that's it, isn't it? You know, trying to deal with negative, especially repetitive negative thoughts about ourselves.
00:27:54 Alison
People get very overwhelmed with. I can't do it because I've always thought like this about myself. I've always felt this way. But actually what we say.
00:28:03 Alison
Getting right through this chat is it's that pausing, isn't it? It's that finding something just to change that track.
00:28:11 Alison
It's like turning the.
00:28:12 Alison
Track into something else and then consciously when you've got rid of that emotional response, think about what is it that you're thinking? Do you believe it? Is it even true?
00:28:23 Alison
Who might it be? And some of the other strategies that you've shared?
00:28:26 Katie
Definitely like you said, I think that's a.
00:28:28 Katie
Huge piece because.
00:28:30 Katie
When there is information out there with regard to touching on some of these topics, often the normal when people try and do that is that normal when the equivalent of the alarms going off and they can't do it at that point, none of us can, because when you're feeling in that heightened sense of awareness.
00:28:45 Alison
We do have.
00:28:46 Katie
What we call cognitive distortions, we.
00:28:48 Katie
Do have like you've.
00:28:49 Katie
Said our thoughts might align with how we're feeling in.
00:28:52 Katie
That moment and the one.
00:28:53 Katie
Is associated on top of the other because we're scared, we're feeling fear.
00:28:58 Katie
Because whatever responses come up at that moment, our mind is just firing more thoughts about why to be fearful. So that's why it's useful for us to look at, OK, how?
00:29:07 Katie
Can I do?
00:29:08 Katie
The things that.
00:29:09 Katie
Help me and.
00:29:10 Katie
Then maybe have those coming to the office. Jim, let's have a chat.
00:29:13 Katie
About this afterwards, but not in that moment.
00:29:15 Katie
Yeah, yeah, I find that frequently. Things like, for example within the industry that I've spent a lot of time in, mistakes are a hot topic. We know that in a safety conscious industry, mistakes are something that seem even more scary cause it can mean life or death. Yeah. At the same time, we've got messages that come along.
00:29:34 Katie
Say we shouldn't make it.
00:29:36 Katie
Or we should grow from our mistakes. We should learn from our mistakes, and often in that moment, when we've made a mistake, it feels uncomfortable. And what we need is some compassion and some kindness, and to treat ourselves as a human. Maybe speak to a friend, do the things that help.
00:29:50 Katie
Us again, we might.
00:29:52 Katie
Be bringing on some of those things that just bring some calm back.
00:29:56 Katie
And then having the conversation when it feels right about. OK, So what are we going to learn from this? How do we grow? Because often that pressure comes to right. We need to learn something from this because this is what we've been told. And that first moment isn't always the moment whistle learning cause it feels uncomfortable. So I think this is a huge piece for us to covering Jen Millers, actually.
00:30:16 Katie
I've been that that pause checking in with what we need, looking after us in our nervous system as well.
00:30:22 Katie
And then looking and reflecting when and whatever timing that is for some people that might be 15 minutes later. For some people, that might be the next day. For some people, it might be two hours and there's not a set time on that.
00:30:33 Katie
Either is a.
00:30:34 Alison
No, but I think it's important, isn't it, to say that managing it in a critic can only be done all the time.
00:30:41 Alison
It's not something you suddenly just wake up and say, right? I'm going to stop thinking like that about myself. As strange as my mind is, I still have thoughts that are linked to my childhood, to things that have been that I used to believe to be true, and I think that's the other thing to remember, isn't it, that some of these thoughts?
00:30:59 Alison
Are still murky.
00:31:01 Alison
So the just in case, I guess it's the gym, isn't it? It's the just in case we might need to pay attention. Somebody might have told you that, you know, don't be too.
00:31:10 Alison
Show off or something as a child and that that thought of I can't possibly be that it's so complicated sometimes. What and where our thoughts come from.
00:31:20 Katie
Oh, absolutely. And like we said, we've also got.
00:31:23 Katie
To live our.
00:31:23 Katie
Lives too. If we wanted to dig into every single.
00:31:29 Katie
Like initiation of a thought, at which point, wherever.
00:31:32 Katie
They anchor down to we'd never.
00:31:34 Katie
Do anything else as well, so maybe.
00:31:37 Katie
Like you said.
00:31:38 Katie
As we do new things that's potentially going to bring up beliefs that we didn't even know.
00:31:43 Katie
That we had seated.
00:31:44 Katie
There. But just like we would do if we're.
00:31:46 Katie
Working with an employee or a.
00:31:47 Katie
Team member, we don't expect that.
00:31:49 Katie
On the overnight with like a light switch and that relationship has completely changed.
00:31:54 Katie
And when we?
00:31:54 Katie
Sit and think about that with the inner critic.
00:31:57 Katie
But I'm very similar to you.
00:31:59 Katie
Always and I've spent.
00:31:59 Katie
I've done a lot of work. I've started to.
00:32:02 Katie
Work a lot on who I.
00:32:04 Katie
AM and what I choose, but at the same.
00:32:05 Katie
Time it still pops up on a daily basis.
00:32:07 Katie
About various things and sometimes.
00:32:10 Katie
That might shout louder than others.
00:32:13 Katie
But it's just like.
00:32:14 Katie
You said curiosity. Compassion. Am I ever.
00:32:17 Katie
Going to get to the.
00:32:18 Katie
Point where I'm like, yeah.
00:32:19 Katie
Seeing a critic piping up this.
00:32:20 Katie
Is wonderful probably.
00:32:22 Katie
Not because again.
00:32:24 Katie
Jim for me has a job to do. He's got.
00:32:26 Katie
To try and.
00:32:26 Katie
Keep me safe and they.
00:32:27 Katie
Do want him to pop up when the time is right? If.
00:32:30 Katie
He could go back.
00:32:31 Alison
To his security job. Please still.
00:32:33 Katie
Do tell me if there's.
00:32:34 Katie
Danger. But like you said.
00:32:36 Katie
Those things that actually are are hurtful, whether that's a conversation we feel able to have ourselves or whether we want to have someone else on board.
00:32:45 Katie
To help us with that.
00:32:46 Katie
That can be really valuable in.
00:32:47 Alison
Itself, but it definitely definitely takes time and patience, I think as well needs to be added in there if we are going to think about.
00:32:57 Alison
Are inner critic and the thoughts that we have about ourselves.
00:33:02 Katie
Definitely. And also I think with time you'll start to get aware about the times when that inner critic might shout louder. And that helps us just to bring a little bit more compassion to ourselves as well. We might know as we're maybe stepping into a new job role at gym or being a critic, we'll have lots of societal stereotypes that the cross referenced to as well.
00:33:22 Katie
Again have been created.
00:33:23 Katie
All the time, as we've been growing up as we've gone through.
00:33:27 Katie
University for some people, through the schooling system might say, Oh well, the people that should be in your role should look like this in this and actually again stepping back and curiously being able to say who told you that where.
00:33:39 Katie
Does this come?
00:33:39 Katie
From and then maybe.
00:33:41 Katie
Even feeling empowered enough to shine a light on some of the people like you that are doing the things that you want to do.
00:33:47 Katie
The top one was that reeducation of saying I hear you and that you think that I don't know. C3 executive should look like this as this, but we're gonna watch this YouTube video about this really inspiring, ****-*** person that has come from a a totally different background.
00:34:03 Katie
And that can be really empowering in itself for us to start to rewrite some of those things too and.
00:34:08 Katie
Just reeducate but.
00:34:09 Katie
Yeah, let's know when that might pop up and and meet ourselves and compassion and understand, understand why.
00:34:16 Katie
If it does as well.
00:34:17 Alison
And I think just to add and when we are able to notice the opposite. So if you, we've all got that inner critic, we're all likely to be saying I can't or I'm not good enough or only any of the thoughts that we can potentially.
00:34:32 Alison
I think something else is so important as a as a strategy really is that when you have been kind to yourself, when you have actually given yourself a break, make sure you pause to celebrate that too.
00:34:43 Katie
Yes, I love that 100%.
00:34:46 Alison
Because the the way that we change our inner critic overtime is not just to, as we've said, fight it and get cross with it is to pause is to think about maybe where it comes from or challenge it say no, not today. I'm not going down that road but then the opposite to that is.
00:35:03 Alison
All the work, it's the.
00:35:05 Alison
The being kind to yourself, it's treating yourself like.
00:35:07 Alison
You would treat your.
00:35:08 Alison
And if we if we spoke to our friends like we speak to ourselves often, we probably wouldn't have any friends.
00:35:15
So yeah.
00:35:16 Alison
All this is is to be celebrated. If you are able to make that shift, to actually think something good about yourself, do something that's positive towards yourself and it's not just positive thinking, but it is.
00:35:29 Alison
Partly pausing and going. Do you know what?
00:35:32 Alison
I did good.
00:35:32 Alison
There I actually thought of the good thing about myself and pause to notice because I call that the mind gym. It's like you're strengthening yourself all the time and I think that's so important. Isn't.
00:35:45 Katie
Oh definitely. I almost because so often in life we go through on autopilot almost to an extent because when we are cognitively thinking with those logical, rational, aware parts of our mind that it does take energy. So I'm sure we've all been there sometimes where you've got in the car and you've started driving and suddenly you wake up.
00:36:05 Katie
And you're at your destination.
00:36:06 Katie
And you haven't really thought about.
00:36:08 Katie
It and we've kind.
00:36:09 Katie
Of almost gone into that that automatic.
00:36:11 Katie
State of mind and.
00:36:13 Katie
A nice thing to do sometimes if.
00:36:15 Katie
It feels right.
00:36:15 Katie
Is creating a better time to reflect at the?
00:36:18 Katie
End of the day. Like what?
00:36:19 Katie
Did I do for me?
00:36:20 Katie
Today, because some of those.
00:36:22 Katie
Things we haven't consciously acknowledged and that's just further evidence, isn't it for us to say, OK, yeah.
00:36:27 Alison
I did that for.
00:36:28 Katie
Me and that was something that I did that is evidence that.
00:36:31 Katie
I'm looking after me.
00:36:32 Katie
Even if I didn't shine a light on that at the.
00:36:34 Katie
Time when?
00:36:35 Alison
I did it. Yeah. I'm a big fan.
00:36:37 Alison
Of people pausing.
00:36:38 Alison
And I one of the products that I've got is a journal, a three month.
00:36:41 Alison
Journal and it forces you because you're filling in the questions to think about setting your intentions for the day. So again, helping the inner critic, how would you like it to go? How would you like to be? It's not your To Do List and at the end of each day you pause and you think about what your wins were or what went well. And again it's it's it's written with the brain in mind.
00:37:02 Alison
So that you actually do help yourself if you have got a an inner critic. So that's definitely a product that's available. If people feel like it, they would could do with some direction in terms of managing this, this kind of topic that we're talking about today.
00:37:19 Katie
Oh, I love that I'm a huge fan.
00:37:21 Katie
Of January and Aaron.
00:37:22 Katie
Spending that bit of time just to look back over the day, celebrate the wins. One of the things I love to do is to challenge myself, and I do this without my clients to to find the smallest possible one that you would never have chosen to celebrate previously because.
00:37:37 Katie
Again in our.
00:37:38 Katie
Mind, we've got a set of.
00:37:39 Katie
Things that we're celebrating.
00:37:40 Katie
And to be honest, you know, for me for a long time it was probably birthdays, holidays.
00:37:45 Katie
And I don't know Christmas or weddings or something.
00:37:49 Katie
Like that, but actually we always laughed at.
00:37:52 Katie
One of the companies that I run we.
00:37:53 Katie
Celebrate out the dishwasher.
00:37:55 Katie
Everybody I did wanna do it and I emptied.
00:37:57 Katie
It, and it was brilliant.
00:37:58 Katie
And just finding those little things to shine a light on, isn't it? But actually you might not notice before.
00:38:03 Alison
Yes, absolutely.
00:38:05 Alison
Because from a brain perspective.
00:38:07 Alison
It doesn't know the difference between an amazing massive achievement and you're just doing something. It will go along with it. You know, this is the this is our challenge, isn't it? There's the mind does believe everything that we are focused on. So if you are pleased with yourself because you've emptied the dishwasher, your mind will be like, OK, great doesn't have to be a great big degree that you've just passed or a great big piece of work. And I think this is where we missed.
00:38:32 Alison
Fix with the.
00:38:32 Alison
Mind so often because we're so focused on all the big stuff and actually, you know, you'll hear me say in these podcasts, you know, what's the one small thing that you can take and what's the one small thing you can take action on? And I think that in itself, it doesn't have to be something that's if if in this episode there's just been one part of what we've shared, take that.
00:38:53 Alison
And have a go at running with that.
00:38:55 Katie
And laugh out yet small things make big changes as much as quite often we persuade ourselves that we don't. And yeah, it's incredible. I mean, I know you've certainly done this as well, but there is so much science behind what we're talking about here that backs up how true this is. And similar to what you were saying about our mind, doesn't know the difference between.
00:39:15 Katie
Something that we've imagined and something that's happened often. If for example, we got the inner critic who's playing a big movie about what might.
00:39:23 Katie
Happen we can kind of feel similar to the IT did, so it feels very real and like it might actually happen and it might be true, but that can be where having these conversations and creating a pause can be really valuable because I'll tell you the way that I used to have a conversation with my inner critic without really realising there was an inner critic or that any of these things.
00:39:43 Katie
This seat would be.
00:39:44 Katie
A thought would pop up saying, well, what if this?
00:39:46 Katie
Goes wrong and rather than me saying.
00:39:49 Alison
Which is what?
00:39:49 Katie
I do now. Thank you for telling.
00:39:51 Katie
Me. That thank.
00:39:51 Katie
You for making me aware of that. I understand why you might think that's a risk or why I might have done something wrong, but I did the best that I could with what I had in.
00:39:59 Katie
This moment, et cetera.
00:40:01 Katie
At that point I would have.
00:40:02 Katie
Said. Oh gosh, what if that does go?
00:40:04 Katie
Wrong. No, you're right. And I say and then.
00:40:06 Katie
This will happen and then.
00:40:09 Katie
I'd say ohh that would be awful.
00:40:10 Katie
Wouldn't it? And then this might happen.
00:40:12 Katie
And before you.
00:40:13 Katie
Knew it. You felt the feeling as if I was being hauled up in front.
00:40:16 Katie
Of the Royal College about to be struck off because.
00:40:18 Katie
I watched this whole movie about.
00:40:20 Katie
And sometimes it's just almost like yelling cups in a movie to step back and almost do the matrix like 360 round it. What actually is? Hang on one second, waking up and then saying how do I want this to play out? I hear you. And maybe we might check in with ourselves and see, you know, what actually.
00:40:40 Katie
This is a moment where I do need to pause and breathe and come back.
00:40:44 Katie
To this moment.
00:40:45 Katie
Or perhaps this is a point where?
00:40:46 Katie
We say yeah, no, not today.
00:40:48 Alison
That's not happening. Thank you for telling me that could happen. You always tell me that.
00:40:52 Katie
Could happen, yeah. Might investigate that further, but like.
00:40:55 Katie
You said using an understanding that.
00:40:58 Katie
Our mind is fascinating things, and when you understand how they work, it kind of makes sense how they work and we can harness that.
00:41:05 Alison
Yeah, I'm a big fan of that.
00:41:06 Alison
I think to.
00:41:07 Alison
Me a lot of my realisations were because I started to understand that it wasn't just me, it was part of the patterns. Part of the way that we're why it we're all unique. But we've all still got these patterns and I think it's that's why I share these. That's why we have these conversations in this podcast because I want to help people see that for themselves.
00:41:25 Alison
So important. Ohh, thank you so much for coming and creating this episode with me today. It's such an interesting topic and one hopefully that.
00:41:36 Alison
Everyone can relate to and everyone can take pause and think about how are.
00:41:41 Alison
They going to manage that?
00:41:42 Alison
That, you know, chitchat that goes on who, who, who gave us permission for that chitchat, to just click on whenever it fancied.
00:41:51 Katie
Ohh and thank you so much for.
00:41:53 Katie
Having me and.
00:41:54 Katie
I know there'll be lots of fantastic episodes.
00:41:57 Katie
To come as well, but it's.
00:41:58 Katie
Been such a cool conversation and hopefully if people.
00:42:01 Katie
Realise that's what they.
00:42:02 Katie
Listen to, you know, a little less along with that and realise.
00:42:05
There are things.
00:42:06 Katie
That we can do and obviously support.
00:42:08 Katie
Out there, if people need that.
00:42:10 Alison
Definitely. Thank you. Brilliant. Thank you so much. So in next week's episode, we are going to talk about success and different types of success. What's success might mean for you and my guest next time is Emma Hine. So I'm really looking forward to sharing that episode with you. But for now. Thank you, Katie, for today.
00:42:31 Katie
Thank you for having me.
00:42:35 Alison
Thank you for listening and sharing in this episode of Mental Wealth. Remember, you can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. My last question to you is, what is the one small thing that you can take action on from this episode? Message me on Instagram.
00:42:53 Alison
Or through our website with questions you'd like.
00:42:56 Alison
Me to explore.
00:42:58 Alison
The links in the show.
00:42:59 Alison
Notes. I'll be back with more tools and tips to make sense of your mind in the next.
00:43:03 Alison
Step of.
00:43:04 Alison
The in the meantime, be kind to yourself. Bye for now.