Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church.
My name is Matt Edmundson.
It is great to be with you on this Sunday night.
I hope you've got your computer.
I hope you've got your cup of tea or coffee or whatever
it is that floats your boat.
Uh, 'cause tonight we have got two amazing gentlemen, so either
side of me, I'm very excited.
to my left we have, the Father of Crowd Church, Dave Connolly.
that's not Dave on the, my left.
Yeah, my left.
Dan, you are All right.
I'm, I'm Josh here.
I'm the one with the beard.
Well, Dave, it's good to have you.
As always, always love having Dave, here.
And on my right we have John.
Good evening everyone.
John, stop hitting the table.
Sorry, my first time folks, I'm looking forward to it.
And stop the microphone.
I'm a novice,
so there you go ladies.
Gentlemen, we've got Dave and John tonight, which I'm very excited about.
We're talking and the reason I'm excited is 'cause you are talking about legacy
I
am tonight, which is great.
and as I was saying, before we went on air to both you
guys, like fathers in the faith.
So talking about legacy with you two guys I'm really excited about.
But before we jump into it, let me say, good evening Rachel.
Hey Raz.
How you doing?
Sharon is in the comments.
yeah, let us know where you're watching from.
it'd be great to, great to hear from you.
Oh, Julie's in the comments.
Oh, dear.
Julie is Dave's wife, lady Burke B is in the comments.
Good evening, Sonya.
Hope you're doing well.
Alright, Mr. C, hope you're doing very, very well.
we'll, we'll let your husband go soon and he'll be home at
some point, this evening.
No doubt.
so yes.
Oh, let me see what this, everyone's just commenting away, which is great.
so very warm.
Welcome to you.
If this is your first time here at Crowd Church, just explain
what happens the way it works.
Just say hi in the comments.
It'd be great to hear from you.
And of course, we also do this thing where if you've got any questions, any thoughts.
Post 'em in the comments.
and we will do our level best to try and get to them at some point,
especially while Dave's doing his talk.
If anything comes up in his talk, write it in the comments.
'cause after the talk we have Conversation Street, which is where we're gonna
go through your questions and comments.
And we were saying it's one of our favorite bits, isn't it?
Conversation Street.
everybody say hi to John, by the way, it's John's first time.
hello.
As we could tell by your microphone, technique
and tapping.
I'm just kidding, starting.
So this is the way it's gonna be, those gentlemen tonight.
So, I'm very, very excited for it, but genuinely, two great men sat
beside me, so we're gonna have some fun.
but we're gonna get, we're gonna get into it a little
bit tonight, so, hi Alice.
Hi.
A good to have you all with us.
Sonia says Hello John.
Hi Sonia.
Talking to the microphone, John.
Sorry.
There we are.
That
what this thing is here.
Okay,
fine.
Give us a drum.
Give us a drum roll.
yeah, don't tap the table.
Okay.
Um, 'cause that just annoys everybody.
Rachel says hello John.
Now let, I should probably say actually, because it is John's
first time, I've known you John, I guess 25, 30 years now.
He's been here 31 years now.
So I've definitely known you 31 years then.
Yep.
and so you came up as a GP
Yep.
And you joined Frontline Church, which at the time was pastored by Dave and Nick.
Nick,
yeah.
and you were friends with Nick.
That's, in fact you were Nick's best man.
Nick and I were med school together in Bristol.
That's right.
he basically led me to the Lord. Yeah.
Which was cool in a kind of roundabout way, and then we were doctors together.
And they moved to Bristol to meet up with Dave and start church.
And we followed three years later.
And, the rest is history,
as they say.
As they say.
And so, yes, we have known each other for a long old time, which is great.
So there's a lot of history, I think, between us.
which is great.
So you're in safe hands is what I'm saying.
John was a GP.
Dave was a nurse.
I was a would-be first aider at some point.
I think that's about as far as I'm gonna go with that one.
Anyway, I was a GP, but managed to have a heart attack and
cardiac arrest three years ago.
And you're still here.
Tell the
story.
God's not finished with me yet.
Yes.
There's a, there's, there's a limit, isn't there?
There's like God's like, no, you're not coming in just yet, dude.
No,
no, no.
You're not quite right yet.
Brilliant.
Dan, do you just want to do me a favor and turn that light slightly?
so it's more on John.
Sorry.
It's very in my face.
and I think we could do with illuminating Brother John a little bit.
There we go.
Wonderful.
Studio lights.
at least we didn't have makeup.
Do they give
you sun tan as well?
Yeah, absolutely they do.
Right.
Without further ado, let's get into this.
We have been, what do you wanna introduce, talk, or do you want me to introduce it?
I'll do it.
You'll do it?
Okay.
I'll do it.
Let's go to Dave.
Good evening folks.
this evening is the fifth and final talk on the subject of money.
And a few weeks ago I was saying that it's not really just about
money, it's about stewardship and stewardship of everything that we have.
It's about the, attitude, that we have towards what God places in our hands.
Not to hold tightly, but to hold loosely 'cause we are only stewards.
It's not ours.
And we, we, if you remember, we talk about our children, but I don't want
to go through all the, the past weeks.
Well, this evening we're gonna talk about legacy.
And just before we started, I was saying to the guys, you know, when we
think about legacy, we think it's something we can't get until the past.
Who's leaving it to us?
Is dead.
And the wonderful news is, in the Bible, that is not the case.
You could receive your legacy from your father whilst he was still alive.
So like with the prodigal son, there was no need for him to leave,
for him to get his inheritance.
He could actually have a, it's called living inheritance.
And I think that is really good.
And I'm sure, I'm sure we'll pick things up, you know, from that.
But, you know, being a, a living, you know, legacy, creating a
living legacy is something you have to be intentional about.
And that, and that's what I want to talk about.
You know, what, what is it to be intentional?
What, what, what are the riches?
What is the wealth that we are leaving?
'cause it may not be pounds, it may not be premium bonds, it may not be property.
but we have much that we can leave, especially as Christians, that
we want to pass on to our children.
Our grandchildren and to anybody whose life that we are touching,
we want to leave with them something that will last forever.
And I, I, I, I will, I will finish with that.
I wanna talk about this creating a lasting impact that will extend beyond some,
that will extend beyond my last day.
And it will be carried by my children and my children's children, you know, and in
the 21st century we don't talk like that.
But you know, the Bible is talk full of talking about your children and
your children's children and, and once for a thousand generations.
Now I don't even know what that would look like.
I don't even know what the math is on that, but it's a law.
But you know, we're talking about intentionally, consistently modeling.
We're not talking about, just jibber-jabbering about
this stuff we're talking about.
We have to model it.
We are quite cheap in many ways, but.
We model what we understand, scripture calls us to do and modeling's wonderful.
'cause if you are modeling a certain lifestyle, people come alongside you.
They see what it's like on your best day and on your worst day.
So modeling this is vital.
And to understand that all that we're talking about is done within a context of
the Bible and what scripture teaches us.
And because if we follow a teacher, sorry, scripture teaches us, we can
have a confidence in how we work that out because we don't have to work it
out just with our own capabilities.
The most wonderful thing that we have, God places us within a body.
He puts people around us and you know, it, it, it can be quite
thrilling that, you know, when you're sharing your life with other people.
You know, Matt just said, you know, he's known John for 25
years, but there's a whole.
Plethora of stories or ies, whatever you want to call it, you know, what
of things that Matt will have learned?
'cause he's seen John and Sally model it, you know, some things, you know,
we just, we see it modeled and, and we're attracted to it, and we see
it repeated over and over again, and that's where the value comes.
Hope that, and that's making sense.
Mm. You know, and we can see, you know, in scripture, you know, Abraham,
the father of the faithful.
You know, we could talk about, you know, how, how the effect on the Levites.
We'll talk a little bit about Timothy loved Timothy, you know, where did
Timothy, you know, we know Timothy being a minister in the New Testament, so, and
we talk about how he, was sort of, he traveled with Paul the Apostle, and,
and Paul had huge input into his life.
But Paul says, this is, I love this bit, John, I'm sure you're familiar with it.
You know, Paul talks to Timothy when he talking to Timothy, he said,
your grandmother, Eunice, what an impact she had on absent father.
And I'm sure we'll come back to this maybe comes to scripture, father's absent, but
grandma is inputting her grandson and it talks about how Eunice, and then,
Timothy's mom, they're both shaping him and value, this is how we get legacy.
It wasn't all about what Paul invested, but about, what.
Grandma and mum invested and I, I just wanna hit some of these characters
and encourage you to look, you know, look at Abraham in Genesis 15 and 20
just outta operating in obedience.
His obedience led to great blessing and his blessing went
on to affect lots of generations.
As I've just said about Timothy, there's the whole thing about, you
know, the Levites, you know, the family of priests legacy upon legacy, Ruth
and Naomi mother-in-law, legacy again.
And, and I, I love the, the Ruth and you, we start talking about
n Naomi and her trust in God, how we secure the place in it.
If, when you read her story, read it, it's a real, you know, amazing story.
And as you track that story, you track the legacy and you see it
weaves in into the lineage of David.
And obviously 'cause it ties into David's, genealogy.
It ties it into Jesus that this is what we're legacy is Clear legacy.
you can track it and it is generational and they were
talking about the faithfulness of, of what that looks like.
But, you know, there are certain things that we have to put in and
I just wanna comment, give you the headlines, like intentional teaching,
be intentional in what we teach our children and our grandchildren.
And I, I just wanna pull in, you know, our extended families.
Again, that was a word we used before, wasn't it?
You know, we we're privileged, you know, to being in a, where we're
really into extended families.
And so this intentional teaching, you know, we're, we're almost
looking for the teaching moments.
We're modeling faith and we can now all tell testimonies and stories
of how we've had the privilege.
And it has been a privilege to see faith, to hear faith spoken and, and
wanting to align ourselves to that.
That changes how you do life.
Be around people in model faith.
It's wonderful.
It'll stay something really deep in, in you passing down testimonies.
Read about it in Psalm 78 and I, you, listen, I'm doing my best to get this bit
right, but I know all grandchildren sleep over at our house on, on a Wednesday.
And, you know, they go through these seasons where, you know,
they'll all be with Julie and they'll say, tell us stories,
testimonies, not, not science fiction.
You know, and it's all about miracles or about how God intervened and did this,
how God healed me when I fell on the mountains of when God did this, how God
supplied finances, how God did this.
And you know what?
These are just children and, and they're happy to hear it and hear it again.
And, it stimulates faith.
Now, I want my grandchildren to grow up in an atmosphere of hearing the testimony of
God and of hearing about God's goodness.
'cause there's enough rubbish and bad stuff happening in the world, you know,
so they can know that God is faithful.
We wanna sow into them as they hear these stories.
How can they, we want them as they grow to know they can pray, and how they can
steward what little God has given them.
'cause God gives us, regardless of our age, if we read scripture,
God comes in his closeness.
And we have to steward that.
But you know, there is a consequence when we don't, in the Bible,
there's a guy called Eli in one Samuel chapter three, and he's got
these sons now, Eli's a priest, you know, and his sons were scoundrels.
You know, they had a legacy that was coming their way, but in fact,
because they failed to follow what God had called them to do,
they didn't receive their legacy.
They received judgments and so did Eli.
So let's not be, let's not be slow to lead and guide our children, you
know, regardless how old our children are, they're always our children.
You know, how we respond to them is different, obviously.
'cause like I have a 44-year-old son and, you know, he, he's a man, you know,
I don't talk to him as if he's eight.
Sometimes I do and I shouldn't, you know, it's a bit hard.
not because he's being.
And he's a child, you know?
But sometimes you just can't help yourself.
But I can't, you know?
but our kids will always be our kids and we need to want the best for them.
Even if it's enough to correct them, we correct them and leave them to do what
they feel they should do with that word.
You know?
And you, you can look at the whole generational thing in
with the children of Israel.
God was so gracious and so kind.
He promised of the promise of the promise, miracle after miracle.
And it wasn't long before they did their own thing.
And God would warn them.
And he would warn them.
But then, you know, God is a just God.
So after all those warnings, out of love, exile comes a form
of judgment comes upon them.
And that affects generations.
'cause quite often when the children of Israel went into exile, it was
for 70 years and many of those people would not have, come out of it.
So let me just give you some scriptures.
Proverbs 13:22.
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children.
That's grace, isn't it?
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children.
Now you're probably thinking what you, what about me?
It's okay.
'cause it includes you.
Psalm 112, verses 1 and 2.
His descendants will be mighty on earth.
The generations of the upright will be blessed.
Joel 1:3.
Tell it to your children and let your children tell their children and
their children to the next generation.
It requires participation.
It requires that we invest in our kids and our kids' kids and
those extended family members.
'cause it, it is the s stark reality.
If we don't, there is no shortage of people out there.
There's no shortage of voices on, on the,
there's, there's no shortage.
They sound reasonable.
They may even sound godly.
And yet when you look at what they're saying compared to the
way they've got they int mm-hmm.
There's no shortage.
We, we, there's no excuse for us not to speak into the lives of our
children and our children's children.
And to those in our extended family, it's called responsibility, my friend.
We need to intentionally disciple people.
You know, we've been part of church, we've had great youth programs,
but you know, I find myself all the time saying to parents, it's our
responsibility to disciple our children.
Thank God for children's workers and youth workers.
They can have a huge impact on our kids and we really appreciate them.
But it is our job to disciple our children.
There needs to be consistency in how we live our lives.
For all those who are looking on consistency over perfection.
People, when they look at us, they're not looking for perfection.
My friends, they're looking for consistency, that we
live out what we talk about.
Modeling, modeling our values.
Not just talking about this, not just being sort of about finance.
And when Hannah was here the other week, we talked about how God
provides, you know, and if God provides, we need to know what it's
like to be on the end of receiving.
I think that's what we were talking about.
But we also need to be on the end of saying, I'm gonna meet that need.
And you don't have to have, if, if you, if you remember one of
Anna's comment, you don't have to have to meet somebody else's need.
If God's prompting you
mm-hmm.
And she gave a wonderful testimony, you need to go back and watch that online.
we need to steward all that we've got, we need to share, I'm sure
we'll talk about this, you know, live life with open hands steward
what we, God has given us to steward.
We need to realize that God is always faithful.
And as I start to just, land this bit and I am just throwing
stuff out this evening, to try and draw these sessions to a
close, we are passing down a story.
You know, if you've got any Jewish friends, the Jewish people I,
I have met, over the years, they will say, Christians, your
rubbish are telling your story.
'cause you don't sit down and you don't tell your story.
You don't talk about your history.
And and I love hearing testimonies, you know, so we
need to develop that culture.
We're not talking about science fiction, we're not talking about fairytale.
We're talking about what God has done in us and through us and
you know, what we've heard that God has done in somebody's life.
When we do that, we bring in glory and we are proclaiming
God is able to do it again.
And that, you know, will affect our worship.
Now worship is, when I'm talking about worship, I am
not taught about singing songs.
I'm talking about how we live.
Worship is a posture of centring in on God and pushing everything else back.
You know?
it also affects, excuse me.
When we look at our legacy, when we look about how we live,
we'll find that we will start noticing the Holy Spirit.
Just put his finger on things in our lives.
And I just feel to say, I'm talking about dear friends.
We carry a pain.
We carry a hurt, and some of us have been carrying it far too long.
It's not that we're in denial of it.
We recognize it and don't allow the Holy Spirit to come and heal it.
And listen, you won't be scar-free.
A scar is proof that there was a wound there and that, that
reminds you of your testimony.
Allow the Holy Spirit to, to bring healing.
Think about how we live and realize that what God is doing in us and through us and
what wonderful things that God invites us into, they will live on when we go to be
with him, they will live on, I was talking with a man yesterday and he's probably
gonna die in the next couple of days.
And, we had an hour and a half and we laughed for an hour.
Just laughed and we laughed and we cried.
And as we were leaving we just detoured
just about how thankful he was to being able to be part of
what God is doing in the place.
He is with the people God has placed among.
And you know, when he said this wonderful thing, he said, the last year,
it's been the best year of my life.
And, you know what?
I left there and I, I I, I, I was upset 'cause I said, I, I'll give
you the rings to coffee next week.
And he goes, it's okay.
What he has done and what he has been passed on will
live on beyond his days here.
You know, and not all will.
We just remember him, we remember God's faithfulness through him and in him.
And let me just close with this.
You know, I started with, we may not have any grand financial inheritance to leave
anybody, but we can leave a treasure
by leaving something, the memories that people have of us.
Should help shape their lives to trust God.
We have the privilege of walking through things, in church with each other.
We have all the wonderful times of weddings and, and births and
deaths and carriages and families experience deaths of young babies.
And we have had the privilege.
And it is a privilege.
It's, it is really sad, but to be able to be part of their journey.
And, we, we just wanna leave behind something that's,
that points all the time.
It, we're not asking people to, to look to us.
'cause we don't have anything besides what God is doing in us.
That when we leave, when we die, and even whilst we live.
Our words and our actions on our D are just pointing to him.
'cause the Holy Spirit is waiting
to connect with each of us, my friends.
There is a legacy for you to live in and that legacy needs to start now.
You start building your legacy to pass on now.
God bless you.
Brilliant.
Wonderful.
Thanks Chief.
Well, we're gonna get into it.
and in fact I'm gonna start off with the very last comment we've just
had from Ellis as a young person, open bracket, 22, close brackets.
it's interesting to see, and no offense older people talking about legacy.
which I thought was an interesting comment.
I dunno, Alice, if I'm one of the older people, I'm, I'm just kind
of like in the middle, I guess.
but no, I love that.
I, I love talking, with you guys about this because the thing that I love
Dave, about what you drew out, was this idea that legacy is more than money.
Right?
And what you leave behind is, is almost as important, I suppose,
as what you've, as the rest of it.
Right.
and, and hence the reason we call it legacy.
and I, I like this idea of thinking about it as of legacy
as being more than money.
although obviously we'll come back to why it's part of it.
what do you think, John,
when you mentioned the word legacy, the word deposit popped into my mind.
Very good.
We are drop being something.
Something in, I mean, an example for me, I've, I've been married
for 50 years to an amazing woman who's put up with me all that time.
And probably, from the first couple, after the first couple of years, we
started to have people live with us.
And it's been hundreds of people that have come through the feeling being to provide
a, a harbor, a home friendship, love, fun.
I've got four sons, six grandchildren now.
And interestingly, my youngest son called our vision through all that time
of having people live with them, with us.
And when they got married 10 years ago to Alice, who came into our
home as a. As au pair who was struggling with a variety of things and we just
loved her, accepted her, she became a Christian, she married my son.
and they've caught that vision for extended family and caring for
people and reaching out to people.
So somehow there, there has been that deposit that, that seed of
care and hospitality and caring.
So that for me is an example of leaving something by example.
in their lives.
That's a really, really interesting point Alice actually put here.
I can relate to it as being on the receiving end of it from my
grandparents who are the best I could have ever asked for.
Whilst also being convicted that I too can build and leave a legacy.
and it's interesting, isn't it?
I think that's, that's really, really great.
Catherine said, is God's legacy for us always something positive, or
could it be something we don't want?
Well, excuse me.
We have to have some context for that.
you know, God talked about the children, you know, of Israel.
He had a plan and a purpose for them.
You know, when he leads them out of, Egypt, you know, they go on a
journey that should have took 11 days, took 40 days, that wasn't down to God,
that was down to their disobedience.
Even though God did miracle after miracle after miracle, it wasn't long before they
were looking to and force something else.
And those things that they were looking for were not good for them.
So God, I suppose to break on them and challenge them.
So that's why they wondered.
It's almost as until they come to an end of themselves and,
so I think, you know, God.
It is good.
But there's a, a word that you may want to, sorry, who was that coming from?
Catherine.
You know, there's a, there's a wonderful word about God being just, and that, you
know, when God says something, he, you know, he expects us to walk in it, but he
is also merciful and gracious and kind.
So it just means that if God says, do this and we don't, that's called sin.
That sin needs to be covered and God covers it through sending his son Jesus.
So have a look at that word, just what it is to, for God to be a just God.
Dion's put, it's funny that we talk about legacy in such positive terms,
but things like generational trauma
Yes.
Is also a type of legacy.
Totally.
Something left behind by parents or people who have influenced us.
It's true.
Any thoughts on that, John?
Yes.
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
We.
My eldest son wrote us a text once and, having had some counseling
for something, rather a number of young people or in the people in their thirties,
having counseling is, is extraordinary.
Mm. And he wrote to us a, a lot of stuff, and Sally and I, we sat there
and thought, what is this about?
The history was totally different to, to what we
mm-hmm.
We thought.
And so clearly we do our best, we do our best as parents, we,
we are learning on the job.
And, and sometimes we get it wrong, but
the
important thing is to be able to have these conversations.
And at times we sit around the, the dinner table and, and
there's an open conversation.
Sometimes it's really hard to hear what our kids are saying.
But it, but that is set something as well, that's a, an unhelpful deposit,
which is what you are alluding to there.
But we need to be able to, to be open to discuss these
things, pray into these things.
Forgive one another.
And move on.
I mean, that, that's, you know, God bless you for, for bringing that up.
'cause I, I think it, it does ping a fuller picture.
You're absolutely right that people are left with a legacy.
I, I call it more of a case to be honest, because it, it
usually fallen people, broken people, and this is now an excuse.
Do things that bring gray hairs Yeah.
And great damage to us.
Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.
But it's, it's sad to think a parent would intentionally want to say
something or do something that would damage their children, but you know.
And I, I don't want to give platitudes I here type of thing, but, you
know, broken people break people.
You know, and, as John's saying, you know, when, when our kids have
said X to us, you think, you know, that's really not what I meant.
That wasn't what I was, that wasn't what I was aiming for.
And then you, we have to be in a place where we apologize and
I would use the word repentance.
And address it.
But that's a, that's a really, really important point.
Ano another aspect of that.
One of my sons, I had a, an interesting kind of a, re
relationship with him for a while.
He's, he's a very creative guy.
but it became evident that, he, was, sorry,
tapping the table again, folks.
Sorry.
that he was in a gay relationship and had experienced these feelings from the
age of 14, and he'd kind of been through church a bit, but couldn't, couldn't hack
it, and was, was in a lonely place at times, which broke my heart really.
And one father's day, he rang me and having kind of, in a roundabout way,
found out about, his, his sexuality.
I bit the bullet and, and spoke to him about it.
And he was pushing me away emotionally because.
He thought that I would reject him because of my Christian faith,
but he got exactly the opposite.
I don't, I don't profess to understand it all, but I love him deeply.
And, and we love deeply him, and his partner.
And that's what it's about.
I'm not judging.
There's no criticism.
Jesus is the one who, who brings conviction if that's what's needed.
He, he breaks into lives and he loves people.
And we had a real sense.
We just love, and that has brought us so close together.
So a legacy of acceptance.
Of love.
So, so important.
Thanks for sharing that, John.
Sorry.
And anybody who knew, knew you, knows you, John would not be.
You know, surprised by your response.
You know, and that's why I saying, you know, you, you get to
know people and how they value and how they, they function, you know?
So, nobody else would be, and I think sometimes, you know, people hold
us off because they think we're gonna reject them, so they think, well, just
in case they don't, and the older off, you know, but anybody who knew, knows you
would know what your response would be.
I'd be shocked if it was anything different,
you
know?
And that's, that's a value.
'cause it's nothing that just comes out.
A value is there at the very core.
What else can come up with that value?
Mm, well, something, I wrote down some notes here that, you know, we are
loved by a God of just incredible love.
The, the, the, not the inventor, the creator of love and of
care and passion for people.
And, as far as I'm concerned, that people are so much
more important than things.
You know, friendship, relationships, more valuable, more precious
than anything material.
Is I'm, I'm just taking all this in.
Chaps.
True.
You to carry on.
It's fascinating listening to it and, and seeing the response in the
comments as well, which has been great.
it's.
I, I guess one my question to you both, right?
'cause John, you've done the lodger thing, right?
As you talked about, Sharon and I have done that.
We, we feel like we're coming to the end of that season.
You've done it.
It's like we've all done that, right?
So we've done these things, which are very intentional, about
incorporating people into our community.
you know, because it's a very Christian thing to do.
It is very, very Christian.
I'm, I'm kind of curious though, what, as you, I maybe, John,
you've got some thoughts on this.
'cause you, you did, have a heart attack.
You did need to be resuscitated, which I assume brings your thoughts about
mortality rushing to the front of your head, maybe sooner than you'd anticipated.
It's about,
what, how are you in.
Following that event.
'cause I, my ki, my eldest Josh, he's about to get married.
So you guys are in a different life stage, right?
you've had this experience, which, you know, God bless you, we
were all praying, but what do you do, or what do you think about now?
What are you intentionally doing as a result of that where it comes to legacy?
Or do you still not really think about it as much?
Well, it's interesting.
Speaking of Josh, I won't go into all the details, but I
didn't wake up one morning and Josh and Alice and the kids were
Sorry.
This is your Josh?
Not my Josh.
Not your Josh?
No, my son Josh.
No, no, no.
they were visiting and about to go back that morning.
But cut a long story short, I didn't wake up.
I was gurgling and on my way, and Sally called him.
to Josh, who's a pediatric physiotherapist who jumped on me, CPR.
We happened to carry a defibrillator with us.
My dad had problems, so they gave me a whack with that one.
And, and I know nothing about all of this.
I woke up in the reanimation ward.
It's a great name, the French he reanimated, which is kind of, you
know, sort of special care or whatever.
totally.
I
like reanimation message special care.
I'm very confused.
I think I rang, Al Marshall three times to tell him I'd had a heart attack.
They go, oh yeah, John.
We know, we know.
But, but there's that special relationship there with Josh to
have that experience together.
I did pay for half of a new iPhone as a, as a thank you, by the way.
Um,
legacy.
Legacy,
legacy.
But.
But all my relationships with my four sons are very different.
And we, you know, we value them for, for who they are and they, and,
it's gotta be at their own pace as well.
I think it's important.
You know, we, I don't preach to them.
I love them.
Hopefully set some example.
I mean, they, they, they actually mentor me as well.
Like, they tell me to get off the roof when I was changing tiles
and, you know, get down from that ladder dad, you know, that're kind
of, bubble wrapping me a bit.
But I used to get away with it.
There you go.
I, I'm sure you didn't listen to them one little bit.
Not really.
I do occasionally.
But what about you?
I, in terms of, you know, I, I, I was reading in the notes for
this, you know, 'cause I put the, the, the notes together and I came
across this, I'd never come across it.
The Levite retirement plan, where the Levites would
retire from manual labor at 50.
And then become in effect the mentors and.
For the younger generation.
now you guys, I think have always, I dunno whether it's been
intentional or whether it's just been something you've just done.
It feels like you've always mentored the generation coming up behind you.
How important is that, do you think, still going forward because you go,
well, we should definitely mentor the 20 year olds because they need
a lot of help and the 30 year olds, they want a little bit of mentoring
in between trying to make life work.
but I suppose who mentors you and, you know, are you, are you
guys being intentional about the whole mentoring thing going forward?
Yes.
Expand.
I think everybody, I don't use the word mentor.
I, I appreciate what you, for me, it's all about accountable relationships.
And there, there are, there are people who.
I have in my life who, you can call them best friends or, or what my kids
say, I haven't got any best friends.
And I'm like, okay.
but you know, there are people who my go-to people and they're usually
over specific things, you know?
but I, I, I think if I can just go back a little bit, you know,
when we were talking about, you know, people living with us, I think, I'm
not sure if any of us would agree.
I think we, you're calling them lodgers.
Expectation.
But I think we're, we actually treat them as extended family, don't we?
I think that, and I think, and I think there is a difference because one just
is about financial reward and the stories we could tell are quite phenomenal.
But again, it's privilege.
But, you know, for, for me, I am really intentional.
I had a wake up call a couple of years ago that I had a heart condition.
It's not compulsory.
I
don't want one,
but I, I was, I was, I had something called a widow-maker, which was just
for your heart's, not a good place.
And I thought you might survive one or two.
Well, I had seven in, I think just over a day and a half.
And, I was, I'm the stenting and it wasn't working at all.
And he said, if I try and put another one of these in the way
your heart is, you could die.
And I remember, you know, I didn't say thank you, God,
that wasn't what I was thinking.
But again, Al Marshall was somewhere in around and, and I just remember,
lying back while they were getting ready.
I'm like, there's not an option.
You know, do what you need to do.
And I, I just remember intentionally.
Just praying.
And I just remember saying, thank you, God.
Thank you for Julie, for the kids and.
And just for allowing me to be part of what you have done.
You know, to be able to go to different places.
To be, you know, with people, to see you do amazing things in people's lives.
You know, just to be there.
Just, just to see you be you and for you to do that, which only you can do.
lying on that table.
Table, you know, I just had this in one minute.
My eyes were shut and I really thought when I opened them again, I
could be right before the one I left.
And something happens, doesn't it?
Something happens when it's not about getting to a certain age.
You know, Jeff is nothing about age.
No, no.
You know, 'cause we all know, people know children and families who you
know, so life is quite fragile.
But you know what?
You, people may die young, but they never die early.
God's time is perfect.
The church, Imma, at the moment, the pastor's wife had a
40-year-old healthy young mum or two, just didn't wake up one day.
And nobody knows why.
But you know what, in, in that moment, where we were just
absolutely sure that this wonderful, godly woman did not die early.
But she did die young.
Yeah, that's
true.
You know, so, you know, my, we do need, we need people.
Let's be, we're talking about relationships.
Relationships that we sow into, that we give into, that we receive from, you
know, and, and we, we do with open arms.
You know, 'cause we do have some crazy folks.
You know, you know, I'll show up in a minute.
I, I was just telling somebody this morning that the day after I
gave my life to Jesus, I remember being in somebody's house.
I remember, and they're all lovely, godly people.
And I remember going to the, to the, the toilets in their house.
And I looked in the mirror and I saw me.
And I smelt me.
And I just thought, what are these lovely people wanting this street?
Boy, you
mm-hmm.
Who smells in their home.
And as it came out, and as I was leaving later that evening, the lady said to me,
he said, we just love you being with us.
You know, and that just,
mm.
And this lady, it's one of those people say the, you know, you don't have the
soft side, do you just say it as it is.
And, you know, that just, I, I, I, that really did something in me.
And that's where I wanna be.
It's interesting coming back to this word legacy again, because to me it sounds of
something which is permanent and lasting.
But can be sewn in a, in a very mo quick moment, thinking of a couple of guys you
mentioned, our, Marshall for instance.
But I walked through some stuff with him very early on before his marriage.
Another guy came up to me in church about a month ago and he'd lived with us.
Interesting time with him, got some great stories,
which he won't want me to tell.
And, and he came up and just said, thank you.
Thank you for that time when you, you know, you took me in there.
And you, you, you just sow something.
You know, like that.
And I remember, sometimes I, I, I get called, I'm fairly, unlike Dave.
Unlike Dave, I'm pretty practical and done all sorts of stuff.
I got a call,
I dunno what you're trying to say, John.
I just
dunno, I dunno what, what he's trying to say.
Speaking truth.
Guilty.
Guilty,
guilty, your Honor.
And he called me about 11 o'clock at night for some disaster going on in his shower.
so I went round and together we fixed it.
And there are other times when people have, have had a need, you know, and it
might be really inconvenient sometimes.
but to respond, it just something Yeah.
In that person that they, they matter.
They're valuable.
You care, you'll go out of your way.
And that's a precious thing to be able to do.
We can all do that.
Yeah, true.
I mean, I started off being, well, selfish an only child.
Okay.
We only children must stand together.
You know, the ty the typical thing about being an opening child is not true.
Some of us are reasonably balanced now anyway.
Thank God I've
not seen any of them.
but the joy of giving and getting alongside and being there
for somebody else is fantastic rather than having your own way privilege.
Good.
So let me just go back to the comments, chaps.
'cause there's a lots, there's lots going on here and I need
to catch up a little bit.
in some respects you've asked, this answered this, Ellis said,
for those who have, who never have kids, how can they still leave
a legacy to others around them?
Is it different or is it harder?
Who wants to answer that question
Different.
I, I, Alice, I, I think it's just different.
It's giving,
yeah.
It just, it is giving, and may, I've written down here, leg,
legacy can be a legacy of Prayer
Of presence.
Yes.
Of participation.
And provision.
Nick Harding would be very, it would with four Ps. Yeah.
It's true.
We can, we we're there for each other.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and, and, and the, your legacy is made of, of things that are valuable.
That's what we, the, the, the, the things that cost us the value.
Well, that's what we wanna give people.
We wanna give them valuables things.
Other people may think they're useless.
It's one of those, isn't it?
Where again, you mentioned the Bible verse, you know, the good man leaves an
inheritance for his children's children.
We, I read, I've read that for years and thought, oh, I've, I've gotta
make sure I'll leave him some cash.
but it's the, in the, in the Hebrew, it's much more than just wealth, right?
It's, it's, it's the, the whole family story.
It's the whole identity.
and so seeing it beyond that is important.
Dion said in the comments, I have really struggled with Christian mentors.
I think that they can off, I think what they can offer and my expectations
are mismatched and I'm always left disappointed, not having my needs met.
Thoughts on that?
It's all about relationship and I would say people who or I mentor who I see,
I want to know, I wanna walk with them.
I want to get to know a little bit about them.
And you know, I have said, look.
You know, I can walk this with you and talk about this with you, but I'm not
necessarily the best person to walk through this specific thing with you.
but I do understand what, what you're saying, but, you know, look for
people who you see something that is so godly that you can connect with and
try and find somebody who has got time.
You know who or who will make time because it will cost them and it should cost them.
What should a mental relationship look like, John?
Do you think
it's example being an example?
Being honest?
Being sort of feet of clay as well.
You know, we're not perfect.
we can get things wrong.
We can say the wrong things.
We can go to bed too late.
We can get up too early.
We're human.
But to get alongside and be faithful.
Yeah,
be faithful.
Hang in there and be honest, because you mentioned your needs not being met.
I, I don't mean this in an offensive way, but sometimes there's a
difference between needs and wants and we don't get our wants answered.
And
there's often a good reason for that because our wants could
lead us in the wrong direction.
but gets get, find just someone who believes in you, who empowers
you, who, wants the best for you.
And you sense that.
But it's gonna require a bit of something from you too, to be honest.
You know, to be able to hear some difficult things and see
that in, in those things being highlighted, there can be release.
There can be healing.
There can be wholeness, there can be moving on.
You may have to forgive, you may have to hear the positive words,
not the rubbish and negative words that get so fed into our minds.
And all these influence out is out, excuse me, influences out there.
I guess some people are very positive, but boy, can they
lead you in the wrong direction.
Yes.
Yeah,
totally.
So feeding the wrong things.
So we need ears to hear the right things.
And be able to filter that.
Pray for wisdom.
I often pray very little for material things.
I pray for wisdom.
You know, to know how to, to respond to live.
I mess up.
Boy do I mess up at times.
But, it's a journey.
That's good.
I think the, the other thing that I'd say in terms of mentor relationships.
from my experience is don't expect them to be perfect.
Right.
Because they're not going to be, and you have to make allowances for that.
They're not gonna call you when you think that they should, you know, they're not
gonna ask you how you were when you think that they should, because they've
got their own stuff going on as well.
Right.
And I think, I learned, it's the interesting thing I learned more about,
my parents when I became a parent.
Right.
You just, you just do, don't you?
and I think you learn more about mentor relationships when someone mentors
you, when you mentor somebody else.
And you see that and you do that.
So, I definitely would.
Encourage, encourage that.
Let me just,
can I just say, Dave meant said, he doesn't use the word mentor, but
just remembered the Holy Spirit, the one who comes alongside.
And I think that's what we need to do.
We need to come alongside.
Yes.
We don't pull along, we don't drag along, we don't push.
We come alongside and we are willing to walk
On that journey.
We, you know, I like the, the know the whole, you know, Jesus disciple
model is one of discipleship and you know, they just walk with Jesus.
They listen, they spoke how he spoke, they said what he said,
they lived how he, he did it.
And I think, you know, we live in, in a day where lots of people,
they disciple people to themselves.
So they're almost saying, be like me, rather than be like Jesus.
And, and, and that's when we sometimes, you know, that's what they, the issues
come, but I just encourage you to.
Connect with people, just people who just love Jesus.
And you get along, get close enough to see if it's real, not perfect.
You know, I, I I'm going for consistency, not perfection.
You know, and, you know, I'm me, you know, and I just want to be real
In, in my consistency.
And, and people will value the things I'm consistent in and, and they
may pray for the things that I'm not so,
you
know, good at, you know, for me and, you know, make me a better person, whatever.
But I'd want them to pray, make me more like Jesus.
Than their what, you know, their expectation.
That's a
good point.
One of the things I think too.
that, for me comes outta this, as you were talking.
God is a generational God.
He is,
he identifies himself in the Old Testament as, the God
of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Right.
A good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children.
It's like, I mean, you mentioned the thousand generations.
It's just like it's God's never just about you.
He's about the generations that come after you.
Right.
And those that you impact on.
And I was reading the other day, Paul's writing in his letter, and
he, he, he's writing, to the church and he says, and he's writing
this from the prison in Rome.
And he says, I want you to know that everything that has happened to me.
Advance the gospel.
I mean, I'm paraphrasing slightly.
And so it's like he understood that God had called him to go preach
the gospel, but he's in jail.
I'd be like, God, there's a wall between me and my calling right now.
He's, he's, he's, what, what can he do?
He writes a letter.
We still read that letter 2000 years ago, and I wonder when he wrote it.
Did he realize the legacy of that?
Just what he could achieve in, in prison in many ways.
And that seems to be God, he just, you don't always remember the name, but you
remember there's something that's passed down through the generations, isn't there?
and God is very much a generational God, so, go
on.
Sorry Matt.
Just with that, you know, like, you know, for Paul, and I think this where
we sometimes get mixed up, you know, Paul wasn't focusing on where he is.
Oh, even who he was with, he was focusing on what has God called me to do.
And whether, you know, Paul's one of those people wanted to spend loads of
time talking to you when I get to heaven.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Must too.
Because got a bit of an attitude, you know?
And, like myself and, get
on really well,
but, well, I wasn't gonna go that far.
I'm for Peter.
I was not.
You,
you, Peter on, well,
Peter to the lamp.
Paul,
I mean, that's, that's obviously after many, many thousands of years with
Jesus course before you start typing.
But you know, Paul, he says, I've been beaten X number of times.
I have been thrown, I have been in prison, I have been shipwreck,
I have been nearly drowned.
I have.
And you know what?
I am sure that, well, there are scripture we see in scripture.
There's ties, like what he's done in.
mm-hmm.
You know, he's wary.
He's just depressed at one stage.
And, and it's funny, he's depressed because he's being with all these
gentiles and they're getting saved.
The Hebrews who are present or just ignore and he's down.
So he goes off to the side and he does a bit of work on the side and God,
and God continues and God just comes alongside and says to him, listen, you
don't have some fear for your life.
As long as you keep proclaiming me.
You know, and, and I think we just, our, our legacy is in who we are and in, you
know, what God is, is, is, is doing.
Through
us.
And you know, what about that jailer mass?
You know, we we're talking about, you know, generation.
Yeah,
yeah.
The gospel was for you and your household.
You know, what about the scriptures that are talking to
nations that is calling nations?
You know, we look around the world and we see God calling nations
terms of like in Iran and Yeah.
You know, and in China and Nigeria we're talking huge pop, you know,
number of the population who would turn into, so it's not just generation
that's beyond my little brain.
By the way,
here's, here's an interesting thought I just had about a reverse legacy.
Look at the story of Joseph.
How much was put into Joseph?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What he went through.
Wrong attitude.
God had to do some character work on him.
False accusation.
Prison.
But still had that gift that God had given him.
Absolutely.
And he is the salvation.
Yeah, absolutely.
His
family.
Absolutely.
No, that's really good.
Alicia has put in the comments, I think Paul and me sometimes had
the occasional Ecclesiastes day.
We just
now that's good.
We might have to make the, if you're not
an of what?
An, an lamentation.
Lamentation Wednesday.
Lamentations Wednesday.
Just a practical thing, if I could throw in here about Legacy.
my son Josh, he bought for me.
Have you heard of StoryWorth?
It's an American thing where.
They ask you a bunch of questions, you answer them, they produce a
book and it's your life story.
All right?
Like, this is your life if you like.
He bought me that.
So I did it for about a year and wrote down, answers to their questions.
Like, what would advice would you give to the next generation?
Yeah, yeah.
Blah, blah, blah.
And anything you wanna say?
I think that's a really good idea.
I know quite a few people have done a life history.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
You know, for their grandchildren.
Oh, that,
well, Sharon's grandma did one.
Alright.
My
dad dad's
written the book.
Say again?
My dad's written a book for, for his grandchildren.
Of all the stories that have happened.
Your dad's done it and he's got plenty his Yeah.
That's a great thing.
That's a
real,
yeah.
You know, we, we were talking about testimonies before, you know, when I
was talking like, dance Dad.
As an evangelist, missionary, I dunno what you'd call him, but when you listen
to his stories, it just is faith in you.
And you think you may have never wanted to go on mission.
We used to have a guy in church called Dave Lee, you remember Dave?
Oh, Dave.
Oh.
You know, I would just wanted to be a local pastor.
And I remember talking with Dave and he, he says, yeah, that's great.
And he said, Brandon's gonna pray to God.
You know what you have, and he's gonna open the door.
And I'm really so passionate about, oh, you know
Being in Ukraine or wherever Yeah.
You know, which, but it was what I saw in him.
What I saw.
And, and, and people like, you know, Dan's dad and there's a number of other people
that we have, you know, working overseas.
Just sta something.
They, they put a investment with their legacy in you.
But that's a, I love the book idea.
It's a great idea.
It's, it's a really great idea.
And I love.
Grandma's book sort and found great.
Just stuff about growing up in the war and mm-hmm.
Anyway, it's not available on Amazon.
at least I don't think it is.
gentlemen, we are fast run out of time.
So, we are gonna switch over to Live Lounge.
I'll put in the comments, the link.
go.
No, I will put the, I'll put in the comments.
The link to Live Lounge.
This is where, we'll just get together on Google meets just a bit like Zoom.
I'll put the link in.
it's go dot Crowd.
Do Oh, spell it right.
Church slash meet.
come join us in there.
come say how's, it's John and Dave.
it'd be good to see you in there.
yeah, we're gonna go to that in just one second, huh?
Next week.
Oh, is that what that means?
Sorry.
You guys can't see.
I just got Dango, next week.
Thanks Dan.
it
was
a prophetic dance.
Prophetic dance.
Say again?
Link has appeared.
The linked
has Hasn
appeared, has it not?
Oh, okay.
yeah, next week I'll fix the link as well.
Next week we are gonna be looking at the start of Easter.
So we've got Easter going up next week and the week after, aid
I think is doing next week live.
John, you getting off
permission to go to the toilet, sir. Thank you.
It's many of us.
Certain age.
I'm maybe 71.
I'm going,
I'm going after.
You
couldn't have waited another 30 seconds for me to close the show.
This is brilliant.
you gotta love John.
So yeah, next week we're talking about Easter with a, the week
after we're talking you are doing the talk the week after, right?
about Easter as well.
So next two weeks we are focused on Easter.
After that we are jumping into a series which I'm super excited about,
called Jesus a Revolutionary.
And we're gonna look at about 31 different things that Jesus did
that's very can cultural even today and quite revolutionary.
So, yeah, looking forward to it.
you've put Crowd Church slash me in the comments.
It's not that link.
Oh, it's Go Crowd Church slash meet.
So, Dan will now put the right link in the comments.
It'll appear.
so yeah, do come join us in Live Lounge.
I'm not gonna ask John 'cause I definitely don't want
to go where he is right now.
anything from you in closing?
Chief
I, you know what?
One of my favorite episodes of episode is that one of my favorite,
live streams we've done for Crowd.
This has just been mental, just cannot keep up.
You just knew it was gonna be a little bit like this, and that's the fun of it.
So, that's it from me.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world.
Of course.
Hopefully we'll see you in Live Lounge, but this has been a real treat for me.
God bless you.
That's it.
Bye for now.