Hey, it's Samantha Hartley of the Profitable Joyful Consulting podcast. This is Season four, our last episode of Season four, and it is about networking. I couldn't close out a season about marketing without talking about this topic. And I am crazy excited because I got the OG on the topic of networking Susan RoAne to speak with me today, because we identify as shy or introverted, 90% of adults find a roomful or a zone full of strangers to be daunting, if you've ever felt that way, you are not alone. That's one reason Susan RoAne's classic bestseller, ‘How to Work a Room' has sold over 1.2 million books in 14 countries, I have it on my shelf.

Her book, 'What Do I Say Next’ was also a best seller named by Forbes.com as one of the networking gurus, Susan is an in demand and virtual international keynote speaker who has shared her message of connecting and communicating with audiences worldwide, she's been featured in the New York times, the guardian on CNN, the BBC, all those kinds of places. She was also quoted by Sir Richard Branson in his 10 quotes to make things happen as his number 6.

Her clients include Coca-Cola, my old place, the U.S Air Force, where my father was, the United Health Care Group, Yale University Apple Computer, you get the idea oh and her personal favorite, Hershey chocolate. Please join me in welcoming to the podcast my guest, keynote speaker, best selling author and the mingling maven, Susan RoAne.

Susan, I wanted to open by telling you my most jaw dropping networking story and then we can refer back to it and I would love to hear your most jaw dropping networking story. Mine was several years ago, I was living in Arkansas where I'm originally from, it's the middle of the country, tons of small business there. And I was invited to a Christmas party and like a lot of people, I have mixed feelings about networking, so I walked into this party and I knew a couple of people there, but I mostly didn't know anyone and I was like a little bit dreading it and a little nervous. And I decided to do the thing I call pinball networking, which is when I just go like a pinball from people I know, to people I know, to people I know and I was walked over to some people I knew and they introduced me to the man that they were speaking to and he said, well what do you do? And I gave him my answer to that question and he said, well, come see me on Monday. I went to see him on Monday and within a few days I had a $44,100 consulting engagement. So that is my fastest return and biggest return on a networking in a networking situation, so I would love to hear your takeaways on that and your favorite networking story.

Well, interestingly I'm going to separate out, networking is different from working a room. A lot of people think that they are same thing, they are not. Knowing how to work a room is having social skills which obviously you have even if you apply to business and it's how we mix and mingle and introduce ourselves to people and introduce them to each other and that's the socializing, the networking and really actual networking is the follow-up that we do because here's the other thing, Samantha, you could have said, oh fine, and not just called and not shown up. So that kind of follow up, once you go to that event, that's where the magic lies.

And when I started to write ‘Secrets of Savvy Networking’ my second and still my favorite book, I came up with, if the card you got when you walk the room and you put in your pocket, go to the cleaners in your jacket, you're a one night stand. So we want to prevent a one night stand offish and stand on-ish. So it's really about the follow up, so there are two separate skills I can prove it because I wrote two separate books no repetition because people need to know how do you walk in the room. I love your pinball because that's really you go to the people you know, they'll introduce you to other people but I'm going to give everyone a tip.

Here's another thing to do, because 90% of us self identify is shy, according to research Zimbardo, who started tostada in the Stanford shinies clinic, if you will go into a room, which is how to work a room, if you go into a room and look for the people standing alone. I know a lot of people think, oh, I want to talk to the person with the best title and the person with the most expensive look and the person who forget that you never know who the fore flushers are if you don't know what that word means, look it up and we'll look it up and you'll go flush a whole bunch of people, metaphor flushers, they got nothing but they dress like a million. And then there's some people, as someone explained to me, a client when I worked for one of the major accounting firms and I saw someone not wearing a suit but wearing an alpaca sweater and I made a judgmental comment, the managing partner said, because they were my client, he said Susan, don't judge him by the way he's dressed.

He isn't a client we would kill to have him a client he was wanted, I live in the San Francisco area. He said he was one early in this Silicon Valley game. He doesn't have to dress for success because he is one, so I learned don't be fooled. You could go down to Beverly Hills and see someone in jeans and think, oh, in jeans and then you find out they cost $500. They have Swarovski crystals in the belt buckle, so a couple of lessons here before you're going to an event like you have a strategy it's like a pinball, the other thing is be prepared. So, you know, you're going to an event, what kind of event, who might be there and this also applies online, oh for goodness sake, I don't care if you read curated news or just get news, get it from a fact based source of course, but come in and know what's going on in the world and know what happened at the golden globe, what happened at the last Super Bowl, what I know I watched it for the commercials and try to get a vaccine appointment during the game, that's what I do. So many topics of discussion just in what you just shared there.

So I'm going to stop and just say, do you see what I just did? I used what this Old English, Former English to do, I used a couple of dependent clauses, prepositional phrases and threw in a couple of things because I know I'm not the only one that watches the Super Bowl for the commercials, but I also threw in something current that I tried to get a vaccine appointment, which people are doing for themselves with their parents or their neighbors, you know, it's a big topic of everyone's discussion now. So what you do is you go into any room or go on a zoom, be aware of what's going on in the room. Can I quote my fifth grade teacher? please..

Mrs. Kurtz said that in order to be a good conversationalist, you have to be well informed and then she said to be well informed, you must be well read and then you'll have something to talk about, Samantha, I don't have pets but if someone has a beautiful golden, so do my friend Hann and Liana I talk about Henry and Pine. If someone has a kitty and I'm not a cat person, I talk about Daisy. So we can borrow parts of people's lives, please write that down, that's in ‘What do I say next’, borrow other people's lives, I don't have kids.

My friends tell me stories, they're in tears, I'm laughing my head off and then I say, Oh, that's so funny could I put that in a book? Could I tell that to other people? Listen to what people say, they give you the punch lines of life and nobody gets insulted if you say, oh, my God, you're so funny that's so witty, who gets insulted by that? I don't think anyone.

So what I love and wonder about what you're sharing are examples of ways that we can bond with strangers and I think the problem is that people feel compelled to make a business connection or make a worthwhile connection. One of the things that I talk about all the time is when people say, I don't want to go into that meeting because it's just going to be a chamber and they'll be all these terrible people and I'm like, it's so easy for you, could go in and then you just look around the room and look for your people, like I can find my people at a chamber meeting because I know who my people are and it's not that they are going to be dressed in funky clothes or wearing a big hat with lights on it, it's like I recognize my people and so if I see someone and I don't feel like a connection spark, I don't even bother having a conversation with them. But as you're saying, when we get to talking about dogs or other people's kids or those things like that and I feel the spark that's likelier to be someone that I want to be connected to, whether it turns into anything or not. So how do you help people understand that, how to create relationships that will be beneficial later like, do they want to go make five new friends that might not have any business relevance for them?

Well that's a personal thing, so sometimes you walk into a room and it's business and I've done it so many times where I've met someone and it's about business, and then we found and this is the key, we were laughing together at the same thing, folks, if you want to know who your people are, they are the people with whom you live, because I had it the other way. There was someone in my life and I think I'm funny, so and this person never laughed even when I thought I was being funny but when I was being dead serious, that person laughed and I go, oh they're going to rekindle that person, No, no, no joy spark there, but I hope my men may have seen my eyes rolling when people walk into a room to say, who can I talk to that I can sell to? Don't do that, because if you walk into any room, whether it's social, because I've spoken to singles groups on how to work or if you have an agenda, it's like I'm here for him and it makes us run away from you. I would like to suggest that we do the homework to know the theme, who might be there, what would be their issues. If you're in your own chamber group, you all belong to the same community, there are people in different professions, you might not do business with them, but you may have a neighbor who says, you know, I'm looking for a graphic artist, I just met a great person, I saw some of their work at the gym and you become I know today they call it the connecter, I'm old school, I call it ‘You the matchmaker’. You matchmake, you put people together.

I joined the BNI years ago partially because I just, giving referrals didn't come naturally. I felt like I didn't have the part of the brain that went, oh, I just thought of someone and over the years, I kind of worked to make that happen but I had thought for a long time that referral givers were born and not made. Do you find that people are, you know, that you can become more of a connector?

Oh, I think you can, you know, I thought, to share with you is about Ivan Meisner, who founded the BNI. I just did a clubhouse, if you don't know what a clubhouse is, is a new billion dollar valuation, audio only, so you don't have to wear makeup and comb your hair, nice little feature and I invited Ivan because he's a buddy of mine and I watched this happen in real time before I heard it happened. One of the women was saying, oh, I have so much social media, I can't even handle it all and Ivan just naturally piped up and said, you know, I really don't do, he even admitted I don't even know how to ping you on this, I have people that help me and he says, I have a wonderful person, it's their business. He said, I'm afraid you're going to have to email me because they don't know how to do that, he said, and I will recommend someone who could do that for you, so I think that's been one of BNI business networking international. Here's what I consider it, networking is a lifestyle, not a work style, you think today I'm going to networking business and get my stuff some leads and leverage my silo's, whatever that means, you're wrong, it's really about, do you think of yourself as Gilmer, are you generous? And I don't mean do you get money, though, that would be nice, what I mean is, do you give time? Do you give support? Do you give leads? Do you give information? And I think Ivan has helped structure BNI so that people who like yourself are not like my ex aren't inclined to do that, more inclined but I'm going to say something that may ruffle a few feathers

I have never met anyone who disliked networking who was the recipient of good referrals, though they love networking, if they get a lead that turns into a $50,000 client or speaking gig. So when they say, I don't like networking, they actually love networking, what they don't like is the networking part, it is work.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite Edison’s quotes, I'll see if I can remember it now. Most people miss out on opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work. And I've always loved that quote, even though I'm a believer in smart work and not hard work, I love that quote because the idea of like, by the way, you might have to do a little something involved with it and I love this distinction that you're making between networking, which for a lot of people, like activates their I'm shy and it makes me feel needy and all of these crazy things that go along with it, If you can just think of it as like going out there and making friends with your people in the room and you know discovering new people who might be your people, just taking that activity and then there is the different part of this, which is following up on all that stuff. So can you talk for a minute about like what goes into that after I leave with those business cards in my hand and they don't go to the dry cleaners, what do I do with them?

Well, first of all, I'm glad you just said they have business cards, I can't tell you how many people here in the Silicon Valley have said to me, oh I haven’t done business cards in 8 years. You're bragging, so let's just say I'm a VC person and I need a card because I'm visual and tactile, because I want to hold it, I want to look at it and you go, oh, I'm sorry here is my pet peeve, Oh let me take a picture and you can look me up on LinkedIn. I actually was the first woman keynote at LinkedIn itself here for the women engineers in Tech and afterwards, I was talking to a woman who I thought was one of my people, and I said, oh, do you have a card? And she looked at me and she said, Oh, no, you can look me up on LinkedIn and I have used this story for the last years in every keynote because my line to that is really you just gave me homework.

I'm so glad you call it that and it's what I say to people all the time is do not give someone a task, don't give them homework. What I would have said, and I don't know if you would also dislike this is let me find you real quick and add you on my LinkedIn.

I think adding people to LinkedIn is all well and good, but a lot of people do that and then you never hear from them again. You've got to plug the vacuum cleaner in and push it around so they've plugged it in but then they didn't do the part two of it.

That's what I just did this morning, thank you. And that's it, like I've been staring at it and I go, it's not doing the oh, got to plug it and move it. Let's give the definition of work, work is defined as the expenditure of energy and if you're going to go online into a zoom or a WebEx, if you're going to go into any room, even at the grocery store that's a room you are expending energy, so don't go anywhere that you don't bring, your energy, your spirit, your smile, when I do my keynotes, people will say, oh, this is what made it ok to go over to this person. They smiled and I'm going to jump on what you said about people are shy and we now have the new group that says that they're introverts and they all hide behind this, so I'm going to give another Susan RoAne, don't do this, don't label other people and don't self label.

The minute we say I am too tired, we feel exhausted, the minute we say I'm shy, you stand in the corner, the minute we say, you know, I'm not worthy, I don't know why I've been watching that commercial a lot or some of it great Mike Myers and Dana Carvey. You are worthy, and I think that's the thing in networking, people think, oh, I don't want people to think I'm needy well, guess what? We all need you, we all have different skills. And if you for one minute think you don't have skills and then you sit there and fix a computer and fix a toilet and cut your own hair and change the oil in your car, and you can code and I'm sitting there going, I can't do any of that. What I want everyone to do and I want you to do it with pen and paper or you could use pencil, but it has to be where you're using motor skills, because this is how we remember. This is homework, I'm sorry Samantha, every time you hear someone say something that sounds like a compliment, oh, that's really good, oh you did that, write it down.

I want you to keep a list because we don't know what we're good at until we hear other people say that. Second part, because we're not like having so many in face interactions, in person interactions, did I mean, in your face, what I also would like, and I've done this with a number of groups I've spoken to in the responses have been so interesting. Ask people, tell them, Susan Rowen wrote ‘How to work a Room’ and ‘Secret to savvy Networking’ give me an assignment. I'm supposed to ask the people who I respect, see throwing in that little compliment, that I respect and really like and trust what they think my two top skills are traits.

Well, first of all when you say you like respect and trust them, they are going to rise to the occasion you'd be so surprised and I've had other clients, including the CEO of one division of a company, he said I had no idea they thought that of me. So don't ask people what you need to improve, you know what, you already know what you need to improve. We look in mirrors and we see things that go, I wish I could ask people, what are my two best traits, quality skills? Write it down.

Super love it, super beautiful, I think that's the kind of thing that people might feel like they need to be especially brave to do, and I feel like just have a brave day and do that this week. And sometimes it's too scary face to face and luckily, almost nothing is face to face anymore. So I think that's a thing that you can do by phone or email or in a zoom or something but I definitely think that's a great one to do. And I would start with familiar people who are maybe kind of safer and easier to do that and then kind of expand and be braver with it and when you invite someone to answer that question, very often it makes them brave enough to ask you the same thing, so I just love that that question.

You know and this may sound like it has nothing to do with it but really I thought about it when I was writing ‘What do I say Next.’ You know how when we talk to little kids, we are so engaged you did that, you do that all by yourself, wow you're a really talented artist and then we grow up and this is how we talk to each other. That's lovely, on my face isn't moving, so that lovely sounds like an insult. We need to embrace some of the joie de vivre that we engage with little kids and keep that ‘oh wow’ factor in our voice, in our respect for other people's accomplishment and in on our faces because even if you're not seeing people, if you're just talking to them, whether it's on clubhouse or on the phone, people can hear your joy.

Definitely, I love that as well, Susan, you have such a generosity of spirit and it comes through in the expertise that you're sharing as well is and how you are being and I really appreciate that. And I think it speaks to what makes people successful when their networking is, you know, an authentic desire to connect with others and that generosity, so I appreciate you bringing that to us.

I wanted to say this to everyone who's going on a zoom. Here's Susan RoAne saying, when you get the invitation, look at your calendar, don't wash your hair that day because you know, we've used that as an excuse an awful lot oh, I'm sorry, I have to wash my hair that hour. What you do is you look at your calendar and even if you'd like to say no, say yes, that was one of the traits when I was writing ‘How to create your own Luck’ my you never know book. The people created their own luck, but they wanted to say no but for some reason they said yes and because that they were in the room, they were in the relationships, they were able to be in a position to avail themselves of opportunities, had they said no, it would never have crossed their path.

Yeah, I think that's really great, it's a really great point I have you know, I'm a big fan of the shirt that says, I'm sorry I'm late I didn't want to come and so I'm definitely a person who would rather not especially with love in person events and I do, I wouldn't say I forced myself, I would say I invite myself to take advantage of in-person networking opportunities and I try to say yes to almost all of them and I just want to get your take on this.

One of my beliefs about networking, many marketing strategies are what I would call farming, it's like you're planting seeds that will be recouped one day. So, you know, building your brand, doing a podcast like this when these are things that kind of build your brand over time and, you know, you can have a pretty amazing farm, but you're not going to be eating out of that thing the first day I've always called networking a grocery store and when I lived in a place where I could go to frequent in-person events and did go to them often, if I was ever like, you know what, I kind of need new clients, I would go to a networking event and I would leave with leads that quickly turned into clients. So I think of networking is like a grocery store, if you need clients right now, like go be visible and say yes to all those kinds of opportunities.

In fact, it's so funny as I've been at it this a while but before I even wrote ‘How to Work a Room', I was teaching networking and I called it and I even found it in a file. The program is called ‘Visibility Marketing’ because there's nothing more assuring to a person who might want to hire you than to see you and you have a flavor of who you are and how you operate and how you speak and whatever their gut level reaction is, I will be honest with you my world is full of amazing people because I showed up, I went somewhere, some of the people in my life who are more dear to me than anything are people that started as clients and quickly transitioned to dear friends. One of the women who read ‘How to work a Room' called me and said, I think you have to work with my company and we did the event in San Francisco and she said, I'm going to take the bus home at night and I said, it's on my way to the bridge, I go, you're not taking the bus at night, my own value system but I was taught because my father always gave people lifts but I said, would you come with me to Sacks? I have to pick something up, she goes oh happily. Well, I saw another jacket I liked and she said oh, you must have it but she didn't pay for it, I did but actually she did pay for it because she hired me. That was 23 years ago, I'm now Aunt Susan to her daughter. So, you know, you don't know where things will go and the one thing I would say that I, it's not my secret sauce because it makes it sounds like business and that I cook, which I don't but one of the things I think about myself is when I meet good people.I have Velcro in my veins, I will make that extra phone call, I will check in and this relates to networking.

Back in the day, we only had the phone or letter, we didn't even have a fax. Now you can ping someone, you can Instagram something to them, you can linkedIn with them, you can Facebook, you get text, you can tweet. So many options to stay connected and I think we're so lucky to have those options.

So for people who are listening, who feel like I'm a really good networker, I'm a strong networker, what are your rather than a talking about kind of some beginner tips, what are for people who are like, I'm great at networking, what are your tips for them to be, like, amazing over the top even better?

You know, there are a couple of what I consider the difference between savvy and those that aren't savvy, the savvy among us who are really great networkers, I might add, don't think that they're networking, they're just being, they instinctively do what is good manners, what is good follow up. So one tip and it's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine, the savvy networker thinks, so I can walk into a room and I can turn people into clients. I say to people, what you make happen for yourself means nothing to me, the savvy networker makes things happen for other people, that's who is the really good networker, that's number one.

The second thing is, the savvy networker keeps people in the loop. It's not just I walk into a room, I meet people or I go somewhere and I could turn them into a big client who cares? The Seven Network goes back to the person who made the introduction, goes back to the person who makes the referral and said, hey, I just need to let you know and I'm going to share this, we were introduced by a longtime friend, Susan Harrow. And once samantha, you and I had our wonderful fun conversation, I sent her an email,, oh my gosh, thank you so much we had such a great conversation and we booked a time, because it would be, I think, rude and I'm going to be judgmental, stupid of me, if I did not keep the matchmaker the connector in the loop.

So that's one of the shows, it's like at a higher level. The higher level people also instinctively know not only that they must acknowledge, but what is to be acknowledged, I mean, if you get a birthday present and it has a bow, thank you is not even up for discussion but a savvy person knows they got a lead, they got information they needed, they got some acknowledgment that really meant a lot to them, they got advice or they had an issue and they had someone who just listened and they came to their own conclusion and solution, but, you know, when you have someone that listens to you and allows you to work things out, we usually pay them 250 an hour, so that person saved you money. The least you could do is say thank you, so I think this really savvy level person knows what to do and they also really instinctively know who to introduce to each other.

Well, that's when I think, as we said, like, some people are just born with that and then I notice for me and for other people who are close to me who I would call kind of maybe referral partners formally or informally, you know, you just know people who know you well enough that they're like and they make connections and what is such a pleasure for me is, is the kind of connections that you were talking about, like Ivan Meisner, like I know somebody who can help you with that or, you know, I'm I have a VA who is amazing and she might have an opening or things like that. I love those kinds of connections that just make your life easier and of course, that turns into more I think everyone benefits more, whether it's literally profits or just lives more joyfully.

And I want to underscore, you said I think everyone is looking for more profits. The other part is you can have a lot of profits and not live joyfully and you really want, everyone says oh, balance, balance. Well, some days it's like a teeter totter, some days you're up here, some days you're down here. But if you live joyfully so I'm very specific, I cannot be with anyone that doesn't have a good sense of humor, it just doesn't work for me at all. And there have been some people I've met who don't and I find I don't know if you have literal nuts in your stomach, but they give me nuts in my stomach.

On the other hand, sometimes that person is really funny, is really kind, is really interesting, knows a lot that you don't know, but is really painfully shy, so I am going to kind of not erase everything I said, I'm going to give a caveat and this is going to come up funny be a two timer, that means give people a second chance. You don't know if they're nervous, you don't know if they found out that mother fell and may have to go into a nursing home, you don't know if the kid did bad on the SATs, people could be preoccupied. Give people a second chance, now do we give them a third chance if they're not and this isn't baseball, three strikes and you're out, you know, and this is what I learned from the people who created their own luck, they didn't burn bridges.

They did not burn bridges and I have the story of someone who was she did not burn a bridge and it allowed her to walk back and then be the choreographer for them, so try not to burn bridges. And I'm going to just kind of quote all of our grandmothers who all said this to us, you never know, we don't know who is going to show up in second part of second decade, and this is a this is a this is a story was told to me by a client who at the time was at PAC pearl and she didn't have a big title. Her title was director and two people that wanted to do work with Pacific pearl saw her title on her name tag and an event, so they just hurried off to go to talk to someone that said vice president and that type. And they had the proposal and what you never know is what a company does with their titles because she was in charge of this whole division. They walked into the room of the woman they had walked away from to make their proposal, she didn't forget them. Yes, who didn't get the contract. So don't mistake that almost every bank hands out vice president titles a dime a dozen, but other companies might not, you need to have a conversation to find it. And by the way, please don't go anywhere on Zoom or in an in-person room and make one of your first three questions. What do you do?

So what are the first three questions?

Ok, the first one should be an observation, and this is how we make conversation, observe, ask and reveal. Conversation is a trifecta, it's those three traits together. If you're always asking questions, you're the grand and not so grand inquisitor, I mean, by the way, when someone asks me a lot of questions, brings out my Chicago, I give them four questions, for tradition's sake and then the fifth question, where they added nothing, I looked at them and I don't know if I say it, though I think I might have. What's it to you? Why are you grilling me? Do I look like a piece of steak, you know, really? It was Dale Carnegie that said, ask people a lot of questions so they can talk about themselves, their favorite subject, don't do that. Maybe not so many, it’s not a conversation about what you do is you have to bring yourself into the room because people want to know they're talking to a person, not a 20 question expert. A lot who are like that, all those bots been programmed, someone like that.

So Susan, you have been in business for 40 years. Is it this month or in January? No, it's this year, and I'm celebrating all year. It started in June and 40 years since I walked into the San Francisco City Hall and filed my business papers but I'm a former teacher and the teacher layoff, so when this guy said to me as I was filling out the forms, he said, you know, when you make your first $250,000, you're going to have to pay sales tax, he said it to a teacher $250,000 we don't make and like, you have to like, live in three different, I looked at him and said from your mouth to God's ears, I'd be happy to pay taxes. We hope so. Yeah, that would be my goal. But it's been an interesting odyssey, if not an odd odyssey, because the business started and I want to say this for people that have had this experience. Because I was laid off from teaching when they massively laid off twelve hundred teachers, but I turned it into a career change workshop for teachers and then I had one hundred people on a waiting list, it's too long of a story to tell and I want you to remember this word, Sally Livingston, my femtor and I called her my mentor and she said, How can I be your mentor? I'm your femtor and she said to me, my dear girl, you have a 100 on a waiting list you have a business. Come with me Monday night to women entrepreneurs to hear the fabulous Patricia Fripp speak. And, you know, it didn't matter what plans I had when someone you admire, trust, respect and adore says that you will change your calendar and I went that Monday night, and I'm pleased to say over 40 years, Fripp and I are now best of friends, but it didn't happen overnight. Yeah. So you get good advice from people that sound good that your gut says, hmm, I think she must be right, do it.

Love that, is there anything that you wish you knew 40 years ago that you're glad that you know now? Have people around you who have good B.S. detectors, so when someone says, if you pay me $10,000 a month, I'll make you a best selling author overnight, I'm going I am the best selling author, trust me it don't happen overnight. You know, I want people to be able to see through the people that are nothing more than snake oil sales people and the people that tell you you should do things have at least three people from different parts of your life as your kitchen cabinet. That you trust, that you know, love and adore, they want you to succeed, they may not be colleagues, they might be like for me, one of your best friends from high school who ended up being a CEO. One of my sorority sisters who ended up being the Accountant CPA for midsize businesses that she shared their goals, have people who care about you and it's nothing in it for them as to whatever you do know, no silver will cross a palm. Does that sound skeptical? It doesn't sound skeptical at all. It sounds like reality and I think it never hurts to be reminded that you need to have people around you that you can really trust and turn to.

Seth Godin was on a podcast recently and just talked about making sure you get feedback from people who know what they're talking about so that you don't get discouraging feedback from someone just because they have no idea what the realm is. And I am your Seth Godin is great, I think it was either for best interest and he wrote something years ago about his mother, who was a volunteer and what she did and I thought he was writing about my mother, who after my brother had polio, my mother worked with a lot of people in Chicago to coordinate the first the mothers march, the March of Dimes and I saw someone who really was the volunteer and what they did and we went door to door, we raised money, and then there was the vaccine. When my brother already had polio, my mother could have said I have other things to do but she said she didn't want any family or any child or adult to go through what we went through. So I also learned from that, that I have to be present. What I wrote Seth Godin said I thought you were writing about my mother and he wrote me back and I had the pleasure of meeting him, we were both at the program together. He actually endorsed, I think, the third version of ‘How to work a Room.’ And he is a different thinker and he was he on, was it on a Sunday morning show or 60 Minutes and he was wearing different socks roman email but I love it and people respond. So I'm going to give people another hint, if you see something or hear something you like, let that person know, speak up, you think well no they will not care? Do you have any idea how many tweets I've sent to Bette Midler? I mean, she says she sends the funniest tweets. I'm sure she wants to hear from me, people that I respect, Michael Beschloss, Laurence Tribe, let people know, but we also can't just do it for the people in business. We must bring that to our personal lives, we must let people know. I just need to let you know that because of you saying this to me, I went out and did this, I want you to see the picture of it. The more we can let people know what they mean to you, what they did, how it impacted you, that's how we grow relationships.

Absolutely, and that's also, I think, how more of those wonderful things happen, you're nurturing the cycle of those things. Susan, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. I know that you are available as a virtual speaker, you have obviously we will put in the show notes your books so people can go and find those and was there something else that you wanted us to mention today?

No, but I would say this, if anyone watching, listening has a burning question, I'm going to give you my email or it'll be in the show notes, don't let it give you heartburn. What you do is you email me and I learned this is a teacher, we will come up with a solution together. So Susan@SusanRoane.com I do work with people individually, I do coached some authors but primarily, if you've got a question, we're going to figure out a solution.

Awesome, so generous of you and so already I can tell on Brand for you, from what I've learned in just a short time I've known you, although I've known of you for a long time, because as I mentioned, ‘How to work a Room’ is essential in anyone's business library and now that I've heard about the other ones, I clearly need to get those too. So, Susan, thank you so much for speaking with us today everything you shared is so timely and relevant to today in being a good networker and just in being a good person. So I really appreciate that you shared that. Thank you, thank you, it's my pleasure.