you challenge me so much. Oh my gosh, I love it. By

the way, we're recording already. So I'm not going to cut

this out. I love to be a challenge I love to push for

growth. who know me people who listen to my podcast don't know

that very well, today with David Lee, and we talk about online

dating, and dating in general, stuff that is frustrating us.

And stuff that we finally want to make sense of. David? Aurora,

hello. Yes. So nice to have you here. And I'm very excited to

share your Yeah, your questions, your insides, your frustrations.

We talked a bit about it previously. What would you say

is the number one? Like difficulty when it comes to

online dating? You've been dating ladies online for a

couple of years on and off? Can you see a kind of a red line?

Yes. Well, let me tell you. I think the hardest part is

actually getting a response. Because as a guy, it seems like

it seems like anytime you go to, you know, say parties or

anywhere in person, like there is always an abundance of guys,

and a very few females, and especially online dating, it

seems like and I've talked to different women about this, that

they will get 10s or hundreds of emails a day, from guys. And

from the guy sign, I don't think it's just me, because I got a

pretty good profile, you know, and I think I look okay,

hopefully. But I might get two, three for maybe a week. And so I

think part of the problem is, all these women are getting so

many emails, and they get so frustrated, and just getting

them to respond. Or to, you know, just get that first

message is difficult in and of itself. And then from there,

it's trying to, to hash out a conversation. And oftentimes,

you'll find that, I don't know, 25%, maybe 50% will send a note

or two, and then ghosts, they'll just disappear. But then the

ones that hang on, you can get a pretty decent conversation. And

I kinda get tired of that pretty quickly. So oftentimes, I'll

just give them my number. And they'll oftentimes reciprocate

and we'll, you know, text or whatnot. But it's just that

initial saying, hello, hi there, you know, trying to get them to

notice you and have a conversation just enter into,

you know, a common discourse. Mm hmm. Yeah, I totally see how

that can happen. What can we do about it, though? I think, like

I said, in one of my videos, that the most important thing is

that you have a beautiful, transparent profile where people

really know what they get and who you are. And then there's

also less questions asked and more into more interesting

topics. Like diving more into interesting topics right away.

But I understand the frustration I think you said specifically,

you said have a kick ass profile. Yeah. Yeah, because

that makes sense. Good advice. Because there's so many guys out

there who just put one picture and and the usual you know, I

have a house, I have a car, I have a job. And then you don't

really like the trustworthiness and you don't know. Yeah, it's

not me. You want to know a little bit about that person

first and then engage in a conversation. But I really don't

know what could be done differently about it. Maybe if

they would insert like video chats on an on a date platform,

you know, where people can talk to each other right away and see

each other right away. Then there would also be less

confusion about the physical appearance. I think a lot of

times that was my one and only experience was with a guy.

He looked so handsome on the pictures or not. Do you know

that fake hands fitness. It was a very natural, beautiful

handsomeness without any gym pictures also very classy. And

the conversations when over a couple of weeks of the phone and

over text, and then we ended up meeting. And I was just shocked.

Like, the pictures were nothing like the person might talk. And

I was stuck now with that with that guy for a weekend. Can you

imagine for a weekend? So when Aurora does something a weekend,

what were you guys doing? He doesn't, right? So I was like,

from the off the bus. I was like, This is not good. This is

gonna be awful. I just I just couldn't be myself. I couldn't

believe why how naive I was going to be. Why was I going to

trust that a guy was gonna put his honest, like pictures

online. And I was so burned afterwards that I decided to

delete everything. And that was my career in online dating. And

it went well because you know, we winded as friends we had the

talk. Yeah, I'm not attracted to you. But yeah, we're gonna spend

the weekend together anyways. But Yad, so I could have really

missed out on like, how do you say avoided in my life? And it

was because it was dishonest. And it is so easy to to have a

fake profile or to portray yourself in a very good light.

But then in reality, it's it's so different. And I feel online.

Dating is like games, like just playing games. And to get

something serious out of it, like How was it for you? Did you

ever get a couple of dates out of it? And then maybe a

relationship?

More way, way way, we can't go past the story without getting

some more information. Now. Now my question to you is, how did

you design this whole weekend? With this guy that you hadn't

really talked to? What were you planning on? doing? Like with

your first meeting? You're going to spend two three days with

them?

Well, the thing is that we we live far apart and we talked on

the phone for a couple weeks and texted pretty much every day and

then we were like okay, if we want to see each other We can't

just can't just be for a coffee because the driver so far. Let's

Yeah, try a couple of nights and no sex nothing. Just get to know

each other in real life. And yeah, when sideways because of I

felt like Yeah. being led on how do you say cheated on or

betrayed or?

Any one of those words? Maybe? Okay, so at least you talk to

him on the phone, which was a good thing. So you knew he

wasn't a total creep? No, no, no, no, of course not. No. And

so he gave off a good vibe with this whole conversation and you

felt like you connected over the phone? Oh, yeah. We talked for

hours. Like it was really an hour. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was.

It was really okay. So so not totally not totally weird. No,

but yeah, to spend a whole weekend with a guy that you just

didn't have that chemistry, the unknown, the unknown chemistry

that you never know, until you meet somebody face to face.

Exactly. And I thought I, I feel the chemistry through the phone.

But no, we should have had a video conference like a zoom

meeting. And that would have changed everything. I don't know

how I would have communicated it. But I would have went

through less pain and disappointment from his side

because it was really it was shitty for him.

So please tell me you are at least in a Chateau on the Alps,

or you know, somewhere and I don't know. Somewhere to scenic.

Berlin, Frankfurt, Amsterdam. Yeah,

it was that kind of thing. Like, where'd you go? What was the

town? No, no, no, it

was here in Canada. It was not similar fancy in Europe.

Oh, yeah. Are we working on thinking French Riviera? You

know, something like that? It's just that would have been even

as good as Keanu. And yeah, that would have been less awkward

because would have been people around us and you can just kind

of Yeah. vanish into. But no, it was just the two of us in the

mountains. And yeah, it was very awkward. I'm just, that's the

kind of person I am. I give. I give 100% and then 100% into the

wrong direction. Well, I guess the best thing is, you got a

good story out of it, or a story or regrets or something? Yes. Oh

my gosh. Okay, so on that note, it's funny because you talk

about dating. And you get the carryover from the 50s in the

60s, and they talk about going to meet the girl and taking her

out on a nice date, you know, dinner, and I hate to say dinner

in a movie, but some kind of adventure where you'll both

enjoy the event as well as each other. But like you're saying,

sometimes you don't always get what you pay for, or when they

show up. It's something completely different. And so I

think dating has to have certain what's the word for it, gateways

or benchmarks are milestones along the way. And with the

online stuff, it seems like you have to pass certain checkpoints

is the word I'm looking for. And so the first checkpoint is, will

this person talk to me and you know, text over the internet

dating site. And if you can get a decent conversation, and they

aren't, they aren't totally weird or creepy. The next step

is talking to them on the phone, which you did. And if you can

get a good conversation going, you feel like you mesh well

after that, then it's kind of a meet in person, but it's, I'm

not gonna say what you did was wrong. It was gung ho, which was

awesome. Another way to go about it, though, is to simplify it

not even debt, because a lot of women will just do these dating

apps for free food, I hate to say it free food and and date if

they're in a different town. But simplify it and say, let's get a

coffee, a coffee has $5. And we can be there for 30 minutes or

an hour, you can at least put up with anybody for 30 minutes or

an hour for a $5 coffee. You know, and I hate to say it, but

there's not a lot. There's not a lot of you haven't invested a

lot in the date yet until you you know, get to know them get

to meet them see how they are. And see that unknown that we

were talking about earlier, the chemistry because everything can

look great on paper, and you can sound good mesh, well talk well,

but then face to face that that unknown of, yes, we mesh really

well, this is awesome. We have chemistry or no, we just don't

have it. Well, the question is, why don't you feel Why don't you

want to do this person? And sometimes it's just like, I

don't know. It just isn't there, whatever it is. And you can put

on paper or write down or is just kind of, I don't know, I

hate to say magical. But it's just something that's either

there or

no, absolutely. And that's the mistake I've made. It is that

chemistry that overrules everything like we discussed a

couple weeks ago. You can have your checklist ready. But if the

sent the physical send is not agreeable with your hormones.

And if the chemistry is not there, then it doesn't matter if

your checklist is green. Yes, you're a big sent person talk

about that. I'm a big send person because I had that

experience once where it was a friend and I knew he was kind of

starting to have feelings for me. And every time we like,

left, and I went about my day, I thought, huh, yeah, actually,

why not? Like, I don't want to screw up that friendship, but

maybe there's something more. And then we started hugging each

other to say goodbye, and maybe a kiss on the cheek. And the

first time we did that, I was like, Oh no, like this is not

and it was not that he was sweating. It was not that he was

stinking, it was just his natural scent. That was

absolutely not compatible with my with my hormones, let's call

them and then I managed to maneuver myself out and to not

get yet to keep it a friendship and it's it's awesome. Some now,

but I remember that moment, and then I researched a little bit,

and it's indeed a thing. We can forget that we're all animals

and that the natural scent is gonna if we if we believe in it

or not, but it's going to have a say, when it comes to our choice

of partner.

Well, there's one point. Yes, you're right. And maybe it was

just his brand of soap that he used. Do you ask them about

that? No, no, I did not. Oh, yeah. That's funny. And my nose

isn't so great. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But

I it's hard for me to identify with that, because I've never

really noticed, since so much as a turn off or a turn on. I mean,

maybe occasionally. Yeah, but I guess I don't lead with my nose.

Yeah, well, all women smell wonderful. Anyways, so it's,

it's probably harder for you. There was that one? I was just

like, no, no. You like, did you ever get something really nice

and serious out of online dating?

Oh, yes, yes, I have actually the last person I dated, I met

online. And I've had several cases where I've met people, and

it didn't work out. But we remain friends. And so it's

funny, I kind of have distant friends. Many states away in

cases. And it's not like we talk on a daily basis, I just kind of

see their stuff on Facebook. And it's kind of interesting that

you can maintain that. Yeah. But it also needs to be a healthy

relationship if you're going to enter into a serious

relationship with somebody of the opposite sex, because those

kind of those kind of opposite gender relationships can get an

A of your current relationship. Hmm.

Yeah, they can or Yeah, you have to be very clear and, and good

with boundaries. But I think it is possible. It also depends on

the on the people. If there's still unresolved stuff on one

side, then of course, it's not easy to manage. But that's

wonderful. So you had really good experiences with online

dating.

I have, it's been very rare, that it's been weird or odd. But

I will tell you this one story. So I was talking to this one

girl. And everything went well, we texted back and forth. And

then we started chatting on the phone. And she just kept going

and going and going. And every now and then I was able to

interject, and then she would go off again, like this non stop.

And finally, I was sitting there after not speaking for about 15

minutes, and she's going on this this strange rant about

something that's really ticked her off, or I don't even know

what. And so I took the phone down from my head, and I'm

looking at it and I take my finger, and I just press that

red HANG UP button, click. And all of a sudden, I felt so much

better. I didn't feel remorse. I was like, Oh, this is great. And

then 20 seconds later, my phone rings. And I was like oh, okay,

to answer it. Then of course, she starts going off again, that

you hang up on me blah, blah, blah this other stuff and I

finally just went click and block. And that was the last I

heard. Yeah. Yeah, I feel odd odd situations like that.

Yeah, I can totally relate. I know that you want to hear stuff

that we're not agree on. But it might be for Next Episode. I

don't know what it is. But it is maybe insecurity or trying to

mask something trying to maybe she was scared of being

dominated in a conversation by a man. Maybe her last

relationship. Yeah, she was never allowed to talk and you

know now with you You gave her like you're such a kind and open

hearted person that she saw the opportunity to totally Yeah,

open up I don't know if she was really opening up or if she was

just talking. But you have to be aware of the person who is

sitting in front of you. And you can just write, you can just

think about yourself and what you want to do to impress the

other. You have to see how the other person reacts, if it's

being received, and have that kind of sensitivity. Do you

think do you think I'm on a red track there?

Yes, exactly. Because when it's when we're dating, you know,

we're having a dialogue, it's not a monologue. And there have

been a few people that, that just get on this constant thing

where they just talk, and don't allow the other person to talk.

But conversation and relationship is all like

dancing. You know, you'll have a leader, and then a follower. And

there's a given a take a push and a pull, you Converse through

your hands, and your your body and dancing. Just like in a

conversation, there's a push and pull a given a take. Yeah, it's

not so much like, I think they say, oftentimes, it's like a

tennis match. Yeah, but sometimes it's not, you know,

because the conversation is always going for it, sometimes

it goes left or right or over the net over the fence and you,

you end up in a completely different spot than where you

thought the conversation was gonna go to first place. Same

thing that we're doing here, we've got no idea where we're

gonna go with this. And so we just do it on the fly. But I

think it's so great. Because as you talk and converse, it, it

ignites different areas in your brain and different ideas. And

you really create conversation, instead of just having a back

and forth. And that's what's so great about conversing, and

allowing the other person to talk, and relationships, because

you never quite know what's going to happen. You just go

with it and create life with that other person. Yeah.

And then maybe the other extreme, except if I'm really

excited about it, I got to correct myself. But I'm more of

a observer first. Because I want to know, who is that person?

What is that person about? And if you don't listen, you miss

out on so many details. If you just talk, you don't learn

anything new. You just I don't know, it's very ego driven. I

feel when a person is talking too much. Because they want to

kind of have an effect on you. But that's not how you win

people over you win people over and making them feel a certain

way and listening and not talking that Yeah, I agree.

Totally. Yeah. Is there something we can? That's all I

gotta say about that? Is there one one thing that I've been

going? Yes, yes. Sorry. No, you continue. Okay, so I have picked

up on this channel. And I am going to advertise it right here

is called charisma on command. And this guy will go through

different topics in social situations, like exactly like,

what you're saying is, as you enter in a conversation, you can

do things or say things or even have body movements, that can

elicit positive feelings or negative feelings in other

people. And in order to do that properly is kind of an art. And

if you haven't learned it as a kid, you certainly shouldn't as

an adult, but speaking in a way and, and interacting in groups

in such a way that you welcome others, and give them a good

sense of self worth a good sense of self assurance, and just that

they are important than being included. Hmm. And so I think

how we interact is is huge. And that oftentimes is how, you know

you can you can make or break relationships in common

conversation. So done, right. It's pretty beneficial for all

parties involved. Mm hmm. Oh, I just got a message here that we

have 10 minutes left. What I want to say to that is, Did I

get it right that you learn body language from that platform? You

were on there? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, like the first thing

that pops to my mind is like, wow, that's totally odd because

I feel the body. In general, the body is always the last instance

the body is at the mercy of the brain. The emotional well being

and mental well being, and to learn how to move, and maybe

it's just me because I know I suck at choreography, dancing

and stuff like that. I can only if you tell me express joy with

your body, then I know exactly what to do. But when you tell

me, put your red right, left, your left arm there, your right

like there, then I don't know what to do. So maybe it's just

one. But I find that very interesting, that approach

because if I was to focus in more on my body language, and to

be more aware, I would also focus in how do I want to make

people feel? Do I want to make them feel secure, and welcome

and integrated? Then I know, I know, if I have that in the

background of login back of my mind, I wouldn't know how to

express it physically. But if you were to tell me now, to make

a person feel good, you have to touch the right arm, not the

left, many. But not too much, I would get so awkward, and I

would not be able to speak properly. And I would not be

able to like I think I would totally freak that person out.

But that's

just me.

Well, here's the thing. I mean, you do it already, but you just

don't notice you're doing it. And it's simple stuff. And it's

stuff that you can build on and learn. For example, you got

three people talking in a tight circle, right? A fourth person

comes up, what do you do? Open up, you might back up, take a

half step back. Yeah, exactly. turn towards them, you might

introduce them to your friends. But you might wait until the

person who's speaking has finished speaking. And then you

introduce them and bring them in. You know, it's simple things

like that. Things like if you are in a group, and you have

your hands in your pockets, and you're trying to make yourself

as small as possible, and not be noticed, as opposed to having

big arm gestures or talking with your hands or, you know,

something simple as making eye contact, just like what you do

with your videos. As you're talking to people in groups, you

do the three second stare? Well, as you're talking, you stare at

one person for three seconds or so, and then go to the next. So

they feel like they're you're talking directly to them, and

including them all in conversation.

Ah, see. So I could totally learn from that. And I get it, I

get it now.

And I'm guessing you do a lot of that stuff already. Right?

But totally unconsciously. And at the same time I do maybe

stuff that pisses people off to

see, I was the same way. I was like, Are there things I'm doing

that are just not right. And so I've started to go through this

and see what might be causing people to just be standoffish.

And one thing I knew specifically that I was doing is

what I would tell subtle humor. Subtle humor works really well

in movies like The Naked Gun, or airplane. But in conversation,

the problem is that people weren't catching on to it. And

they didn't know if I were if I was making fun of them or being

sarcastic or being joking. Yeah. And so what I've learned is that

I need to back off from that and give what's called a towel.

That's something where you make a joke or say something

sarcastic sarcastically and then you say laugh after it or use a

different voice to portray that. That idea. being like, yeah, you

know, I don't always go to the store, but you use a different

voice. I don't always go to the store, you know? Yeah, make it a

lot more drastic and out of character. They know. Oh, that's

not to be taken seriously. he's joking here.

That's something that's also very interesting when you don't

know when you just don't know and you know, a person has

width. But you It makes it fun. So, but I know what you mean,

like some people are. It's not sarcasm, but they are cynical.

And then it's, yeah, you heard people and yeah, it's a

different way. But is it playful sarcasm then? I think it's a

good thing to to have. But very, very interesting. How was that?

can be so charisma, something. charisma on command, charisma on

command. So if and the reason I started listening to this is

like I have never when I grew up, I didn't really have good

social skills. And I think oftentimes I was off putting,

and I'm sitting here going, I need to learn this, these cues

that most people, it comes naturally to. Okay. And so it's

really been a struggle, but also a learning experience to go

through conversations and in the middle of it, be racking my

brain for those that knowledge of stuff, where it's like, okay,

maybe I should do this or say this turn this way. And

sometimes it gets exhausting. Yeah, but honestly, I mean, it's

something that I need to learn, because I don't do it naturally.

But it comes easier as I'm starting to learn. But yeah,

it's called charisma on command. There's some great videos. And

so I highly recommend it for anybody who wants to be good in

conversation.

That is so sweet. That is very, very cool. I will put that in

the show notes, too, for anybody who's interested. And, yeah,

we're coming to an end here. Shoot, that was 40 minutes

already? And is there anything you would do? So we had body

language and awareness, we had listening skills? Is there

anything else that you would say is an absolute must when you

when you meet somebody first?

Well, when you first meet them understand that they are just

another person like you, and they deserve grace. And people

our age, you know, we're in our 30s and 40s. We've messed up,

we've relationships, and we're single and just trying to get

by. So I think oftentimes, people pull off too quickly. You

know, they think that swiping left is just another way to get

to the next, the other fish in the sea, right? There's always

more efficiency, there's always more people well, sometimes

there's not always more people. And so I think people need to

just go a little bit easier, and give somebody a chance. If

they're not, nobody's going to be 100%. But if you can get 80%

of what you're looking for, it can be a very good relationship.

don't discount people if there's one or two things missing, or if

they're too tall or too short, or whatever. And then just give

them grace. You know, we're gonna mess up, I mess up all the

time. Just give people a second or third chance to say, you

know, let's try it again. Because I'm really bad at this

thing called dating and sometimes at this thing called

life and just go with it.

Ah, that's such a beautiful closing, David, that's come. I

know. It comes from the heart. And I know it will be well

received out there. Thank you so so much for making the time. And

yeah, for being here on the show with us today.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. This is this is a great show

and you're doing a lot of good stuff for people out there.