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 Welcome to the VP Lab Podcast, the show

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 where we bring you actionable health

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 advice from leading minds.

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 I'm your host, Rob, and

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 our guest today is Dr.

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 Damian Downing.

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 Arguably one of the pioneers of

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 functional and

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 integrated medicine in the UK, Dr.

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 Downing joins me for a conversation today

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 about all things light.

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 Expect to learn what the role of light

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 really is in the human body, why morning

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 sunlight is needed to help us get quality

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 sleep, and what mal-illumination is and

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 how we can avoid it.

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 Now, on to the conversation with Dr.

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 Damian Downing.

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 Good morning, Dr.

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 Downing.

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 It's great to finally

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 have you on the podcast.

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 I think this one's been almost a year in

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 the making, so I'm pretty chucked that

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 we're able to finally make it happen.

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 I know today's conversation is going to

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 be enlightening, and yes,

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 that was a terrible pun.

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 I'm sorry, I just had

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 to get it out of the way.

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 Anyway, before we dive in, would you mind

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 just giving us an intro, who you are, how

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 you got in the world as ecological and

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 functional medicine?

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 So obviously, I'm a doctor.

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 Way back in the early 80s, I discovered

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 about nutrition, basically,

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 and then about food allergy.

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 And I set up a laboratory doing food

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 allergy testing, the

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 first one in Britain.

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 And then a few of us got together and

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 founded a society which is now the

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 British Society for Ecological Medicine,

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 which I'm currently the president.

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 We describe ecological medicine as being

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 a systems approach to health, looking at

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 the interactions between the individual

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 and the environment.

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 So inputs from the environment are things

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 like nutrition, obviously, toxins,

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 increasingly environmental pollution, of

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 course, and also general lifestyles,

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 stresses, and so on.

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 OK,

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 then in the middle of the 80s, I

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 discovered the work of John Ott,

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 who's the guy who discovered, described

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 the problem of malillumination.

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 That's a fascinating sort of story, Dr.

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 Darning, and I'd definitely like to chat

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 to you a bit more about the food allergy

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 testing a little later on, maybe.

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 OK, so we've obviously

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 worked together in the past.

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 Well, I mean, you've kindly listened and

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 I've talked about the

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 chemistry that nobody cares about.

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 However, I think maybe what drew me to

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 you as a practitioner was your MO, your

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 your modus operandi.

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 You have a very systems-based approach to

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 medicine, which

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 you've already alluded to,

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 even within the sort of the functional

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 and integrated space.

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 And by that, I mean, again, as you've

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 alluded to, you really do start with the

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 basics, focusing on nutrition,

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 mitochondria, lifestyle and, well,

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 today's conversation, which

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 is which is really about life.

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 Now, of course, we're here to discuss

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 what these photons of energy are and why

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 we need them in their natural state, of

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 course, to be healthy.

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 However, I'd like to quickly rabbit-holt

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 that's OK and discuss your your

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 forthcoming book, which

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 which I think which you very kindly sent

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 me the some notes on in

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 preparation for this podcast.

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 Again, maybe it's just the

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 the want to be author in me.

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 And it's but it's also

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 a question I asked Dr.

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 Jenny Goodman earlier on the year.

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 But what drove you to write it?

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 And why in particular did you choose to

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 focus on light as a topic?

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 OK, so way back in the 80s, I wrote a

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 book called Daylight Robbery, The

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 Importance of Sunlight to Health.

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 And that was really based

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 on the work of John Ott,

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 who's the guy who made time lapse films

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 of plants flowering and that kind of

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 thing for Walt Disney.

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 And you can still see some of

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 his work on the Disney Channel.

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 And the story goes that this

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 back in the late 50s, really,

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 he was getting a bit, you

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 know, rickety and arthritic.

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 And so he used an old bicycle to go down

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 the bottom of the garden

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 and that kind of thing.

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 And then one day he broke his glasses and

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 didn't have a spare pair.

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 So it was without for a few days.

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 After a few days, he suddenly noticed

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 that his arthritis had gone.

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 And so he's so excited, he rushed

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 upstairs, we hadn't been able to do for

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 several years and told his wife.

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 And from then on, he went on to look at

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 the effects of light in all

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 sorts of things on people,

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 on diseases and people, on animals,

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 described a lot of things with animals.

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 I think the most remarkable one was that

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 some animals who normally in captivity,

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 they could be very aggressive, like male

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 rabbits, for instance, and also minks,

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 minks were undertaken notoriously nasty.

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 But he put them in the right light, which

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 then they come from a, you know, a cold

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 northern place, is quite a blue light,

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 and they become friendly little animals

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 and won't savage your fingers at all.

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 So it's clear that there was an influence

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 there of light, a very big one.

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 And what he figured out is firstly that

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 we're all deprived of

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 light because we moved indoors.

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 And obviously, light is the

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 environment we evolved in.

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 But we deprived ourselves of it.

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 And secondly, he figured out that we're

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 getting bad light, bad

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 vibes from our devices.

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 This is before we even

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 invented the smartphone.

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 But he got clearly thinking he saw

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 problems coming from lighting

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 installations in the ceiling, from

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 cordless phones and from TVs.

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 Fair enough.

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 And obviously, that's what they

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 introduced to write the book.

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 Yeah, I do like the sort of

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 the thoughts about rabbits.

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 I grew up with rabbits

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 as sort of family pets.

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 And yeah, and I, yeah, I often think, to

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 quote BX-Trix Potter, that Mr.

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 McGregor had a ride.

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 They're probably best found in pies.

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 They are vicious, nasty creatures, at

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 least from my experience of them.

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 And I'm surprised I

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 haven't ended up with tularemia.

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 I'll tell my mother that she's got to

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 sort of stick her rabbits into his

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 sunlight when she brings them in at all

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 something to that extent.

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 Yeah,

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 anyway,

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 yeah, no, it's definitely something I'm

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 looking forward to reading

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 and for the book, of course.

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 And yeah, I think maybe we could jump

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 into light specifically now.

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 Now, the way I understand it, half the

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 sun's energy is non visible.

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 And then sort of infrared light makes up

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 sort of the other 10% ish.

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 Well, excuse me, infrared light is, I

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 think I've got this

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 right, just half the light.

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 Infrared, you know, rough figures, 50%.

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 And then depends on your climate.

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 Yeah.

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 And then 10% is coming from ultraviolet.

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 I think that's correct.

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 Yeah.

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 And the rest visible, which is just 40%.

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 Yeah.

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 Can you explain how these frequencies

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 interact with our bodies at a cellular

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 level, and why they're important in the

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 context of this conversation?

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 Yeah.

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 Okay.

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 So in terms of, okay, that's what hits

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 the earth from the sun.

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 The next thing you need to know is that

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 green stuff, green spaces, plants,

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 leaves, that kind of thing reflects the

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 near infrared in quite a big way.

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 To the extent that if you're in a park or

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 a forest or whatever, and it's probably

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 why forest bathing is good for you.

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 The light coming into your eyes, there'll

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 be five times as much infrared,

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 near infrared, in

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 particular, as there is visible.

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 But obviously, you don't see it and you

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 don't really feel it.

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 So presumably, that is why, you know,

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 green stuff is good for us,

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 and we like it, and so forth.

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 And then the infrared also

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 has some special properties.

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 The first is that it

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 penetrates very well into our bodies.

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 And we can,

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 things like the cerebrospinal fluid in

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 our brain, and the amniotic fluid in a

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 pregnant uterus, they

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 transmit that infrared very well.

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 And lots of other things transmitted

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 around so that we got our

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 numbers wrong on infrared.

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 And in fact, it seems that about 70% of

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 your cells, if you're an adult, will be

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 receiving some of that near infrared.

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 And if you're a child, and therefore

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 smaller and so forth,

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 it's 100% of your cells.

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 Okay.

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 And then when it gets there, the next

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 thing is that infrared has some

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 particular properties,

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 has a particular resonance.

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 The one that everybody knows about, which

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 is thought to be, well, thought by some

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 people, to be the way that infrared light

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 works, is that it interacts with complex

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 four of the electron

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 transport chain in the mitochondria.

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 So it's a key part of energy production

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 in every cell in the body.

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 And that does seem to be

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 true that that happens.

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 But there is also an interaction or

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 several interactions

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 with water in the body.

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 And since 99.9% of the molecules in your

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 body are by number are water molecules,

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 there's a lot of scope for that kind of

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 interaction could go on everywhere.

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 Would that ends with where light works at

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 complex four, would that be working on

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 cytochrome C oxidase?

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 Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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 Yeah.

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 Okay.

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 And that's the enzyme that then helps to

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 produce energy in the form of oxidative

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 phosphorylation or ATP.

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 Is that correct?

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 Yes, it is.

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 Okay.

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 I think, Dr.

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 Darning, I'd love to also dig into a bit

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 about how light specifically helps to

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 regulate our circadian rhythms, because I

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 do feel that's often

280
00:11:57,125 --> 00:11:58,750
 overlooked by a lot of people.

281
00:12:00,291 --> 00:12:04,333
 It's taken for granted that we need

282
00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:08,333
 sunlight, but how and why is light

283
00:12:08,333 --> 00:12:10,208
 important for regulating our circadian

284
00:12:10,208 --> 00:12:12,166
 rhythms, especially in the morning?

285
00:12:12,375 --> 00:12:14,375
 And then how does that then play a role

286
00:12:14,375 --> 00:12:17,291
 in the way our bodies operate?

287
00:12:18,166 --> 00:12:18,708
 Right, okay.

288
00:12:19,125 --> 00:12:21,625
 I have to go back a bit.

289
00:12:22,666 --> 00:12:24,916
 And we have to talk about melatonin.

290
00:12:25,708 --> 00:12:26,166
 Ah, yes.

291
00:12:27,083 --> 00:12:28,541
 Okay, can we do it that way?

292
00:12:28,541 --> 00:12:29,125
 Okay, perfect.

293
00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:30,375
 Yes, definitely.

294
00:12:30,666 --> 00:12:31,708
 Got a few questions there.

295
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:31,958
 Okay,

296
00:12:33,375 --> 00:12:36,958
 so we thought that when I wrote Denite

297
00:12:36,958 --> 00:12:39,916
 Robbery, we thought that melatonin was

298
00:12:39,916 --> 00:12:40,916
 stuff that was produced

299
00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:42,666
 by the pineal at night.

300
00:12:43,666 --> 00:12:47,666
 And some of it got into the brain and

301
00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:49,583
 helped you to sleep.

302
00:12:49,583 --> 00:12:51,083
 And maybe it was also an antioxidant.

303
00:12:52,166 --> 00:12:55,375
 Now we've had to completely reframe that

304
00:12:55,375 --> 00:13:01,000
 because melatonin is as old as oxygen.

305
00:13:01,166 --> 00:13:01,750
 This is old as

306
00:13:01,750 --> 00:13:04,458
 mitochondria, in fact, really.

307
00:13:05,291 --> 00:13:07,125
 And it's been, as they say, it's been

308
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:09,541
 evolutionarily conserved,

309
00:13:09,541 --> 00:13:11,708
 you know, we obviously need it.

310
00:13:11,708 --> 00:13:15,375
 Clearly, its main purpose

311
00:13:15,375 --> 00:13:18,583
 is to, is as an antioxidant.

312
00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:23,458
 And particularly in the mitochondria,

313
00:13:23,458 --> 00:13:25,125
 because what are the costs of the,

314
00:13:26,333 --> 00:13:30,375
 like, mitochondria, use oxygen and

315
00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:33,791
 produce ATP, is that there's a bit of a

316
00:13:33,791 --> 00:13:35,125
 percent, it's not perfect.

317
00:13:35,791 --> 00:13:36,958
 So there's a bit of

318
00:13:36,958 --> 00:13:38,750
 percentage fallout from it.

319
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:41,666
 So we always produce some oxidative

320
00:13:41,666 --> 00:13:44,291
 radical oxidizing radicals

321
00:13:45,791 --> 00:13:47,416
 by that process.

322
00:13:48,208 --> 00:13:49,041
 Those being reactive

323
00:13:49,041 --> 00:13:50,708
 oxygen species, is that correct?

324
00:13:50,708 --> 00:13:51,208
 Yeah, correct.

325
00:13:51,791 --> 00:13:58,791
 Yeah. And so the amazing thing is that

326
00:13:58,791 --> 00:14:02,750
 melatonin is produced when it's needed,

327
00:14:03,625 --> 00:14:06,375
 where it's needed, which is predominantly

328
00:14:06,375 --> 00:14:07,791
 in the mitochondria.

329
00:14:08,541 --> 00:14:11,833
 And just the fact of producing the ATP

330
00:14:11,833 --> 00:14:15,083
 will trigger the production of melatonin.

331
00:14:16,708 --> 00:14:17,875
 It's a kind of an

332
00:14:17,875 --> 00:14:19,375
 automatic process there.

333
00:14:20,666 --> 00:14:20,875
 Right.

334
00:14:21,166 --> 00:14:21,291
 So

335
00:14:23,083 --> 00:14:26,416
 when we need that most for the whole

336
00:14:26,416 --> 00:14:28,833
 body, we need it when we're active.

337
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,416
 And so the way it's supposed to work, in

338
00:14:35,416 --> 00:14:37,750
 the morning, bright light, particularly

339
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:40,791
 blue light, or high energy visible, as we

340
00:14:40,791 --> 00:14:43,750
 call it, blue and green, hitting the

341
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:46,625
 eyes, sends a signal to the brain.

342
00:14:46,875 --> 00:14:50,333
 This is the suprachiasmatic nucleus we

343
00:14:50,333 --> 00:14:50,958
 don't need to get

344
00:14:50,958 --> 00:14:52,125
 into the technicalities.

345
00:14:52,666 --> 00:14:54,625
 Sends a signal to the brain, it's wake up

346
00:14:54,625 --> 00:14:56,708
 time, time to do some activity.

347
00:14:58,375 --> 00:15:03,625
 And so that switches off the brain cycle

348
00:15:03,625 --> 00:15:05,416
 of melatonin, which we'll come to in a

349
00:15:05,416 --> 00:15:07,250
 moment, and switches on

350
00:15:07,250 --> 00:15:09,291
 the whole body activity.

351
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:13,583
 And you can make that work even better by

352
00:15:13,583 --> 00:15:17,583
 some reasonably vigorous exercise for

353
00:15:17,583 --> 00:15:20,125
 something like 20 minutes in the morning,

354
00:15:20,125 --> 00:15:22,958
 because that will activate your whole

355
00:15:22,958 --> 00:15:26,000
 body production of melatonin.

356
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,958
 And we can record that from

357
00:15:28,958 --> 00:15:32,208
 the blood level of melatonin.

358
00:15:32,208 --> 00:15:33,250
 But the stuff in the

359
00:15:33,250 --> 00:15:35,375
 blood is the spillover.

360
00:15:35,708 --> 00:15:39,333
 It's the stuff that's left over.

361
00:15:39,333 --> 00:15:40,750
 I mean, it may be a good idea that it

362
00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:43,083
 goes around everywhere in the body.

363
00:15:43,083 --> 00:15:45,958
 It's the stuff that hasn't been used in

364
00:15:45,958 --> 00:15:47,458
 the cells, and particularly in the

365
00:15:47,458 --> 00:15:51,208
 mitochondria, to mop up free radicals.

366
00:15:52,541 --> 00:15:54,000
 Now, the brain is different.

367
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,166
 Because the brain is about 2% of body

368
00:15:59,166 --> 00:16:01,333
 weight, but it uses about

369
00:16:01,333 --> 00:16:07,333
 20% of the energy molecules,

370
00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:12,250
 it is so intensive that it has to have a

371
00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:16,166
 special system for this.

372
00:16:16,791 --> 00:16:18,500
 And basically, that

373
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,000
 happens when you sleep.

374
00:16:21,416 --> 00:16:24,583
 So what happens when you sleep is that

375
00:16:24,583 --> 00:16:27,125
 your body is effectively paralyzed,

376
00:16:28,458 --> 00:16:29,666
 except for all the bits

377
00:16:29,666 --> 00:16:31,750
 like breathing, of course.

378
00:16:32,666 --> 00:16:35,208
 And that prevents you,

379
00:16:35,208 --> 00:16:36,833
 you know, burning up,

380
00:16:38,583 --> 00:16:40,458
 doing adrenaline driven stuff.

381
00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:45,541
 And in the brain, the pineal switches on,

382
00:16:46,458 --> 00:16:49,208
 and it pumps melatonin right into the

383
00:16:49,208 --> 00:16:50,583
 third ventricle in the

384
00:16:50,583 --> 00:16:51,791
 middle of the brain there.

385
00:16:52,208 --> 00:16:54,250
 And from there, it diffuses all around in

386
00:16:54,250 --> 00:16:56,250
 the cerebrospinal fluid, and

387
00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:58,666
 then into the brain tissue.

388
00:17:00,291 --> 00:17:04,958
 And at that point, it also it connects

389
00:17:04,958 --> 00:17:07,625
 with what we call the glymphatic system,

390
00:17:08,583 --> 00:17:11,708
 right, which is the kind of the lymphatic

391
00:17:11,708 --> 00:17:13,333
 system of the brain.

392
00:17:14,208 --> 00:17:17,958
 And what happens with that is that, at

393
00:17:17,958 --> 00:17:19,458
 this point, synchronized

394
00:17:19,458 --> 00:17:22,041
 with the melatonin delivery,

395
00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:27,708
 you start pumping fluid and toxins and so

396
00:17:27,708 --> 00:17:31,250
 forth, waste products, out of the cells

397
00:17:31,250 --> 00:17:37,583
 into the extracellular fluid there, and

398
00:17:37,583 --> 00:17:40,125
 particularly into these glymphatics,

399
00:17:40,416 --> 00:17:41,916
 which are paravascular.

400
00:17:42,625 --> 00:17:48,125
 So every vein, every artery in the brain

401
00:17:48,125 --> 00:17:52,958
 there has an outer tube around it.

402
00:17:54,291 --> 00:17:55,041
 And there's a flow

403
00:17:55,041 --> 00:17:57,291
 through that of the water.

404
00:17:57,833 --> 00:18:01,416
 And also there's an in, but it is around

405
00:18:01,416 --> 00:18:03,333
 the arteries as well.

406
00:18:03,333 --> 00:18:07,958
 And so the flow there is pumped by the

407
00:18:07,958 --> 00:18:10,500
 contraction of, by the pressure wave

408
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,541
 going through the artery, or when it also

409
00:18:13,541 --> 00:18:17,000
 pumps the stuff outside there.

410
00:18:17,458 --> 00:18:20,333
 And that, of course, is the problem with,

411
00:18:20,333 --> 00:18:22,791
 you know, if your blood pressure goes up,

412
00:18:23,958 --> 00:18:25,916
 so is all the time your blood pressure is

413
00:18:25,916 --> 00:18:28,000
 high, there's less room

414
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,666
 for pressure variation.

415
00:18:30,041 --> 00:18:31,833
 So the pumping action is impaired.

416
00:18:32,791 --> 00:18:37,916
 But so the are the para arterial vessels

417
00:18:37,916 --> 00:18:41,125
 pump cerebrospinal fluid, rich in

418
00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:44,041
 melatonin at that point into the brain

419
00:18:44,041 --> 00:18:46,083
 and melatonin acts as does, or

420
00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:48,083
 does ever, as an antioxidant.

421
00:18:49,833 --> 00:18:55,291
 And then the output circle is that the

422
00:18:55,291 --> 00:18:59,125
 the paravascular, paravenus

423
00:19:01,166 --> 00:19:04,208
 glymphatic system pumps a load of fluid

424
00:19:04,208 --> 00:19:06,208
 with no toxins and so

425
00:19:06,208 --> 00:19:09,250
 forth out of the brain.

426
00:19:09,625 --> 00:19:13,791
 And then it connects with the main

427
00:19:13,791 --> 00:19:15,166
 lymphatic system of the

428
00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:16,541
 body, but only when it comes out.

429
00:19:16,750 --> 00:19:19,333
 A lot of that goes through the nose here

430
00:19:19,333 --> 00:19:23,666
 and connects with the tonsils, which are

431
00:19:23,708 --> 00:19:26,666
 reasonably described as the the toilet of

432
00:19:26,666 --> 00:19:28,500
 the brain, or the drain

433
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:29,625
 of the brain, if you like.

434
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,958
 And so that's sending the because one of

435
00:19:35,958 --> 00:19:39,541
 the points of the lymphatic system is not

436
00:19:39,541 --> 00:19:43,208
 only does a there's a route for bad stuff

437
00:19:43,208 --> 00:19:45,291
 to go out, but it delivers that bad

438
00:19:45,291 --> 00:19:50,250
 stuff, the cells and the molecules to the

439
00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:53,333
 lymphatic system to lymph nodes here and

440
00:19:53,333 --> 00:19:54,375
 everywhere in the body.

441
00:19:54,875 --> 00:19:57,416
 That's where the immune system gets this

442
00:19:57,416 --> 00:19:58,416
 information about what

443
00:19:58,416 --> 00:19:59,458
 it's got to deal with

444
00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:02,291
 and can get activated

445
00:20:02,291 --> 00:20:03,875
 appropriately as necessary.

446
00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:05,625
 So all that stuff comes out.

447
00:20:05,875 --> 00:20:07,791
 So it's a beautifully coordinated system.

448
00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:12,208
 And it happens naturally when you sleep

449
00:20:12,208 --> 00:20:15,375
 and particularly deep sleep, level four.

450
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:24,166
 So that is why you can't detox your brain

451
00:20:24,166 --> 00:20:29,125
 and think or do stuff at the same time.

452
00:20:30,125 --> 00:20:31,583
 Yeah, that's fascinating.

453
00:20:32,250 --> 00:20:35,083
 And it sort of it does just show the

454
00:20:35,083 --> 00:20:37,666
 importance of getting that of why it's

455
00:20:37,666 --> 00:20:39,250
 important to get that natural light first

456
00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:41,416
 in the morning to sort of well to start

457
00:20:41,416 --> 00:20:42,666
 that system going, I suppose.

458
00:20:42,875 --> 00:20:44,458
 I mean, what's your saying?

459
00:20:44,916 --> 00:20:46,166
 A good night's sleep

460
00:20:46,166 --> 00:20:47,500
 starts the morning before.

461
00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:49,625
 Dr.

462
00:20:49,833 --> 00:20:52,333
 Darling, yeah, what are your thoughts on

463
00:20:52,333 --> 00:20:53,666
 supplemental melatonin?

464
00:20:53,958 --> 00:20:57,333
 I mean, everyone and their uncle has an

465
00:20:57,333 --> 00:20:58,416
 opinion of this, obviously.

466
00:20:58,791 --> 00:21:01,500
 I fall into the camp where I don't

467
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,041
 necessarily think it's a bad thing.

468
00:21:03,041 --> 00:21:07,541
 And I definitely utilized it and found

469
00:21:07,541 --> 00:21:09,958
 that there's really no

470
00:21:09,958 --> 00:21:11,291
 detriment, at least for me.

471
00:21:11,291 --> 00:21:13,166
 I don't notice that there's any sort of

472
00:21:13,166 --> 00:21:15,458
 negative feedback loop that seems to sort

473
00:21:15,458 --> 00:21:20,083
 of exist, again, subjectively.

474
00:21:20,583 --> 00:21:24,875
 And I do find, yeah, that it definitely

475
00:21:24,875 --> 00:21:28,000
 helps recovery in terms of aches and

476
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,291
 pains and far more so than playing around

477
00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:34,416
 with things like lapisarcoma glutathione,

478
00:21:34,416 --> 00:21:36,625
 which I think most people associate with

479
00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:38,208
 being the body's master antioxidant.

480
00:21:39,791 --> 00:21:42,000
 Obviously, there's definitely, as I

481
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,375
 mentioned, there's some controversy

482
00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:46,333
 around it, especially in the UK, where

483
00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:48,000
 it's not available over the counter.

484
00:21:50,125 --> 00:21:53,125
 And, but yeah, do you think that

485
00:21:53,125 --> 00:21:56,083
 supplemental melatonin is something that

486
00:21:56,083 --> 00:21:57,625
 should be looked at more

487
00:21:57,625 --> 00:21:59,291
 freely or is it an issue?

488
00:22:00,041 --> 00:22:01,208
 Well, it's a slightly

489
00:22:01,208 --> 00:22:02,166
 complicated question.

490
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:03,041
 Firstly,

491
00:22:04,125 --> 00:22:07,333
 you can boost your own melatonin

492
00:22:07,416 --> 00:22:10,500
 production with red near infrared light.

493
00:22:11,958 --> 00:22:13,458
 And that clearly is

494
00:22:13,458 --> 00:22:16,708
 the that clearly works.

495
00:22:16,916 --> 00:22:18,041
 Now, it's been shown to work.

496
00:22:19,625 --> 00:22:22,791
 We don't have enough studies yet to say

497
00:22:22,791 --> 00:22:25,833
 how good how much so

498
00:22:25,833 --> 00:22:26,833
 forth you need to do.

499
00:22:27,458 --> 00:22:31,166
 But I mean, you could just, well,

500
00:22:31,166 --> 00:22:33,250
 actually, let's start from your point

501
00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:35,208
 there that first thing you

502
00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:36,875
 need is a good night's sleep.

503
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:43,000
 Second thing you need or that can help is

504
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,875
 sunlight and or red light to boost your

505
00:22:49,875 --> 00:22:51,375
 own production of melatonin.

506
00:22:52,666 --> 00:22:56,000
 And the paper that showed this was a

507
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,041
 study on young athletes,

508
00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:05,083
 and they gave them a red light, one of

509
00:23:05,083 --> 00:23:07,791
 those whole body red light maps,

510
00:23:08,833 --> 00:23:11,333
 and take half an hour of

511
00:23:11,333 --> 00:23:13,125
 that late in the evening.

512
00:23:14,541 --> 00:23:18,083
 And then after a couple of weeks, they

513
00:23:18,083 --> 00:23:20,000
 measured their

514
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,166
 melatonin levels in the morning.

515
00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:25,708
 So we don't know exactly what was

516
00:23:25,708 --> 00:23:26,916
 happening in that one.

517
00:23:26,916 --> 00:23:28,875
 But we can see that there was an effect

518
00:23:28,875 --> 00:23:31,541
 that melatonin came up, their sleep

519
00:23:31,541 --> 00:23:34,166
 improved, and their athletic performance

520
00:23:34,166 --> 00:23:36,791
 improved, compared to controls.

521
00:23:38,166 --> 00:23:39,875
 So it obviously works.

522
00:23:39,875 --> 00:23:40,833
 We just don't know all

523
00:23:40,833 --> 00:23:42,500
 the parameters properly yet.

524
00:23:43,208 --> 00:23:47,291
 But I as to taking the supplements of

525
00:23:47,291 --> 00:23:51,750
 melatonin, well, it's clear that small

526
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:54,500
 doses like, you know, three, four

527
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,708
 milligrams, that kind of thing can have a

528
00:23:56,708 --> 00:23:59,416
 definite effect taken last thing at night

529
00:23:59,416 --> 00:24:02,416
 and help with sleep and so forth.

530
00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:10,000
 But it's also interesting that people

531
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,875
 with cancers seem to tolerate a huge

532
00:24:13,875 --> 00:24:16,291
 amount more of melatonin without

533
00:24:16,291 --> 00:24:18,291
 completely zonking out.

534
00:24:20,958 --> 00:24:24,791
 And presumably that is because there's a

535
00:24:24,791 --> 00:24:29,291
 lot of justification for melatonin.

536
00:24:29,291 --> 00:24:31,208
 There's a lot of stuff there that

537
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:33,625
 melatonin can help to mop up.

538
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,583
 So people have given people with cancer

539
00:24:39,583 --> 00:24:44,750
 10s, 40, 50 milligrams several times a

540
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:47,916
 day and got benefits with it.

541
00:24:48,125 --> 00:24:49,666
 But what they don't do is don't give it

542
00:24:49,666 --> 00:24:52,000
 at night, because then it's going to, if

543
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,125
 you, you know, dim

544
00:24:53,125 --> 00:24:54,416
 your attention to body,

545
00:24:56,166 --> 00:24:59,500
 you want it all to be directed there.

546
00:25:00,666 --> 00:25:04,208
 So I don't think that, you know, I

547
00:25:04,208 --> 00:25:05,375
 haven't yet seen, I

548
00:25:05,375 --> 00:25:06,708
 suppose, I haven't yet seen

549
00:25:07,875 --> 00:25:10,208
 a real bad effect from taking

550
00:25:10,208 --> 00:25:11,833
 supplemental melatonin.

551
00:25:12,583 --> 00:25:17,583
 But in a way, it's not fixing the the

552
00:25:17,583 --> 00:25:19,791
 real problem, is it?

553
00:25:20,791 --> 00:25:21,375
 No, of course.

554
00:25:21,666 --> 00:25:21,875
 Yeah.

555
00:25:22,041 --> 00:25:23,500
 It's, again, just

556
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:26,125
 another patch to sort of, well,

557
00:25:27,375 --> 00:25:30,125
 I do find, yeah, again, anecdotally,

558
00:25:30,125 --> 00:25:31,041
 that's quite effective.

559
00:25:31,583 --> 00:25:33,416
 What about as we get older?

560
00:25:33,875 --> 00:25:35,708
 I know this starts to sound a bit woo and

561
00:25:35,708 --> 00:25:37,500
 a bit out there, but it definitely does

562
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:39,541
 seem to be something, at least from my

563
00:25:39,541 --> 00:25:41,458
 view of the literature, that as we age,

564
00:25:41,791 --> 00:25:42,500
 there's some

565
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,291
 calcification of that pineal gland.

566
00:25:45,541 --> 00:25:47,250
 Do you think there's a case to be made

567
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:50,541
 that as we get older, and our 50s, 60s,

568
00:25:50,541 --> 00:25:54,166
 70s, 80s, etc., that maybe a low dose of

569
00:25:54,166 --> 00:25:57,583
 melatonin, even if it's just a dose that

570
00:25:57,583 --> 00:25:59,666
 is equivalent to what's produced in the

571
00:25:59,666 --> 00:26:02,458
 body, so sort of 0.3 to 0.5 milligrams,

572
00:26:03,291 --> 00:26:06,041
 is that maybe an effective strategy that

573
00:26:06,041 --> 00:26:08,625
 people should maybe think about,

574
00:26:09,541 --> 00:26:11,000
 especially from a

575
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,083
 controlling oxidative stress?

576
00:26:16,291 --> 00:26:19,041
 Well, if it's brain you're after, you

577
00:26:19,041 --> 00:26:21,583
 know, brain where the problem is, then,

578
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,041
 yes, and I mean, if you're thinking about

579
00:26:24,041 --> 00:26:28,000
 pineal, but remember, the pineal doesn't

580
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,958
 really have much to do with whole body

581
00:26:29,958 --> 00:26:34,458
 melatonin, so if it's non-brain, then I

582
00:26:34,458 --> 00:26:35,250
 don't see the point.

583
00:26:38,666 --> 00:26:43,750
 I've often given it, when I've

584
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:47,791
 put it on a longish term basis, I've

585
00:26:47,791 --> 00:26:51,416
 always told people to leave it off for a

586
00:26:51,416 --> 00:26:53,708
 couple of days, and like, for instance,

587
00:26:53,708 --> 00:26:55,583
 take it Monday to Friday, leave it off at

588
00:26:55,583 --> 00:26:59,000
 weekends, and that seems to allow the

589
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,666
 dial to reset, so you don't become

590
00:27:01,666 --> 00:27:03,208
 tolerant of it, you know,

591
00:27:03,208 --> 00:27:04,833
 you don't get used to it.

592
00:27:05,583 --> 00:27:08,666
 Yeah, that makes sense, and I suppose it

593
00:27:08,666 --> 00:27:12,000
 almost sort of starts to talk to a bigger

594
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,541
 question about sort of calcification of

595
00:27:15,541 --> 00:27:18,500
 the pineal gland, and why we exclude,

596
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,875
 well, not maybe historically, but I think

597
00:27:21,875 --> 00:27:24,625
 there's been an interest in recent years

598
00:27:24,625 --> 00:27:27,000
 about sort of getting rid of all phytic

599
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,916
 acid in the diet, and to the point where

600
00:27:29,916 --> 00:27:32,708
 we are, yeah, I mean, ask any carnivore

601
00:27:32,708 --> 00:27:35,750
 going, and they'll sit there and sort of

602
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:38,875
 preach the values of never ingesting any

603
00:27:38,875 --> 00:27:42,083
 form of phytic acid, but I do find it

604
00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:45,500
 interesting that, yeah, that by getting

605
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:48,000
 rid of these, I suppose what we would

606
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,375
 call these natural additions to our

607
00:27:50,375 --> 00:27:52,708
 appetite, that we actually may be doing

608
00:27:52,708 --> 00:27:57,125
 some level of damage to cells, to organs,

609
00:27:57,166 --> 00:27:58,541
 and our bodies like the pineal gland,

610
00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:01,208
 where maybe it's becoming, they're

611
00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:02,541
 becoming calcified, because we're not

612
00:28:02,541 --> 00:28:04,708
 getting enough phytic acid in our diets.

613
00:28:05,541 --> 00:28:06,750
 No, you have a point there.

614
00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:10,166
 I mean, I have to say, I still got to say

615
00:28:10,166 --> 00:28:13,833
 that, you know, we wouldn't start, for

616
00:28:13,833 --> 00:28:16,166
 many things, with phytic acid, you have

617
00:28:16,166 --> 00:28:17,166
 to start with sugar.

618
00:28:18,541 --> 00:28:18,750
 Sugar?

619
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:22,791
 Like, sugar is the thing that is most bad

620
00:28:22,791 --> 00:28:25,541
 for you, most destructive of immune

621
00:28:25,541 --> 00:28:27,375
 systems and health in general.

622
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:30,125
 Oh, okay, from that perspective, yeah,

623
00:28:30,125 --> 00:28:32,500
 no, there's an interesting, I don't know

624
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,958
 how much of the online dietary

625
00:28:34,958 --> 00:28:36,541
 space you follow, but there's

626
00:28:38,041 --> 00:28:42,208
 slowly a shift happening to following a

627
00:28:42,208 --> 00:28:46,666
 very high sugar, a very low fat diets, I

628
00:28:46,666 --> 00:28:48,250
 think one of them is

629
00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:49,541
 called the snake diet.

630
00:28:49,541 --> 00:28:54,375
 And the idea is that by increasing, not

631
00:28:54,375 --> 00:28:57,791
 just carbohydrates, but sugar intake, in

632
00:28:57,791 --> 00:29:00,833
 its entirety, you can lose a lot of

633
00:29:00,833 --> 00:29:04,000
 weight purely because you are able to get

634
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,291
 the, you're able to bypass a lot of the

635
00:29:07,291 --> 00:29:09,958
 dysfunction that we see in, in

636
00:29:09,958 --> 00:29:12,333
 mitochondria today, where there's this

637
00:29:12,333 --> 00:29:14,583
 sort of elevated CER response in the sort

638
00:29:14,583 --> 00:29:16,458
 of an inability to burn fat.

639
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:19,875
 And a lot of people are now utilizing

640
00:29:19,875 --> 00:29:25,500
 very high sugar intakes to just improve

641
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:28,958
 energy intake and to improve weight loss

642
00:29:28,958 --> 00:29:31,083
 because you aren't being met by this sort

643
00:29:31,083 --> 00:29:34,083
 of inability to burn fatty acids.

644
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:37,708
 Mechanistically, it does make sense.

645
00:29:37,958 --> 00:29:39,958
 But then, as you pointed out,

646
00:29:41,166 --> 00:29:43,291
 you're going to end up with a lot of

647
00:29:43,291 --> 00:29:46,041
 inflammatory signaling further down,

648
00:29:46,041 --> 00:29:49,958
 increased levels of AGEs, increased

649
00:29:49,958 --> 00:29:51,375
 levels of oxidative stress.

650
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,500
 And so, yeah, not to mention the issues

651
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:59,750
 that would arise with gut issues.

652
00:30:01,125 --> 00:30:01,416
 Quite.

653
00:30:01,833 --> 00:30:03,041
 So, yeah.

654
00:30:03,583 --> 00:30:05,375
 You've made my case for me.

655
00:30:06,166 --> 00:30:06,833
 Yeah, no.

656
00:30:07,625 --> 00:30:09,875
 The whole diet thing I

657
00:30:09,875 --> 00:30:11,666
 do go forth and back on.

658
00:30:12,416 --> 00:30:15,708
 Where do you, a bit of a tangent maybe,

659
00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:17,083
 but where do you currently stand on

660
00:30:17,083 --> 00:30:19,291
 ketogenic diets and their

661
00:30:19,291 --> 00:30:21,416
 efficacy with long term use?

662
00:30:22,583 --> 00:30:26,125
 Well, I would say with the large majority

663
00:30:26,125 --> 00:30:32,791
 of people, it is beneficial to move

664
00:30:32,791 --> 00:30:36,458
 somewhat in the ketogenic direction.

665
00:30:37,416 --> 00:30:41,833
 But I mean, the thing that people have

666
00:30:41,833 --> 00:30:46,125
 said about diets for ages is that you

667
00:30:46,125 --> 00:30:48,250
 shouldn't, it shouldn't be a diet that

668
00:30:48,250 --> 00:30:50,458
 you go on until you've lost

669
00:30:50,458 --> 00:30:52,708
 the weight or lost it, whatever,

670
00:30:53,916 --> 00:30:54,750
 and then you abandon.

671
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,500
 It should be a lifestyle change.

672
00:30:57,416 --> 00:31:01,333
 And you see, that's the thing you have to

673
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:06,458
 bear in mind that our

674
00:31:06,458 --> 00:31:08,666
 lives have changed so much.

675
00:31:08,958 --> 00:31:10,208
 There used to be that we

676
00:31:10,208 --> 00:31:13,500
 had basic healthy food,

677
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,916
 some meat, a lot of veg and hardly any

678
00:31:17,916 --> 00:31:19,250
 grains and so forth.

679
00:31:19,833 --> 00:31:24,041
 Now we've got huge amounts of ultra

680
00:31:24,041 --> 00:31:26,250
 processed food and so on and so forth.

681
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:28,208
 You need to readjust that balance.

682
00:31:29,458 --> 00:31:33,166
 And I think it's the same with sunlight.

683
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:36,708
 We become so deprived of natural sunlight

684
00:31:36,708 --> 00:31:42,041
 and so exposed to unnatural light and

685
00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:44,208
 electromagnetic fields, wavelength,

686
00:31:44,791 --> 00:31:45,833
 particularly, you know, all

687
00:31:45,833 --> 00:31:47,833
 these devices around us here,

688
00:31:49,208 --> 00:31:50,083
 and so forth.

689
00:31:50,083 --> 00:31:53,833
 You've got to, you know, you've got to

690
00:31:53,833 --> 00:31:56,500
 reset that first before

691
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,750
 you can get anywhere else.

692
00:31:58,041 --> 00:31:59,125
 How was that for a segue?

693
00:31:59,625 --> 00:32:00,791
 That's perfect.

694
00:32:00,791 --> 00:32:02,250
 And it brings us straight back on track.

695
00:32:02,458 --> 00:32:02,875
 Thank you.

696
00:32:03,250 --> 00:32:04,291
 I was I was just

697
00:32:04,291 --> 00:32:05,500
 about to get there myself.

698
00:32:05,958 --> 00:32:07,750
 So yeah, no, I couldn't

699
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:09,458
 really put it any better myself.

700
00:32:09,666 --> 00:32:12,083
 I think, just to close that point up,

701
00:32:12,083 --> 00:32:13,708
 it's interesting when you follow people

702
00:32:13,708 --> 00:32:16,166
 in the online space that most of them

703
00:32:16,166 --> 00:32:17,791
 start with an extreme view, whether

704
00:32:18,125 --> 00:32:20,083
 eating just vegetables or just meat.

705
00:32:20,833 --> 00:32:22,500
 Then at the end of the day, they always

706
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,666
 slowly start to come back to center and

707
00:32:25,666 --> 00:32:27,791
 then sort of follow fairly well

708
00:32:27,791 --> 00:32:29,458
 structured omnivorous diet.

709
00:32:29,958 --> 00:32:32,375
 We'll have to have the carbohydrate

710
00:32:32,375 --> 00:32:34,416
 discussion another day.

711
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,833
 Yeah, I think, yeah, let's get back to

712
00:32:38,833 --> 00:32:39,916
 light and this

713
00:32:39,916 --> 00:32:42,416
 concept of mal-illumination.

714
00:32:44,291 --> 00:32:46,708
 To start off with, and I know we touched

715
00:32:46,708 --> 00:32:50,708
 on where it was first coined and where

716
00:32:50,708 --> 00:32:52,125
 John Ott came into the picture.

717
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:56,750
 With this artificial light side of

718
00:32:56,750 --> 00:32:59,375
 things, do you think it's the excess blue

719
00:32:59,375 --> 00:33:01,291
 light that's creating the issue?

720
00:33:01,625 --> 00:33:03,708
 Or is it the absence of natural light

721
00:33:03,708 --> 00:33:07,041
 that's maybe the primary driver there?

722
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:08,750
 Yeah, no, you're right.

723
00:33:08,958 --> 00:33:13,666
 I mean, it is logical that blue light,

724
00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:15,666
 particularly at night and so forth, where

725
00:33:15,666 --> 00:33:20,458
 it's designed to be a wake up trigger in

726
00:33:20,458 --> 00:33:22,250
 the morning, if you're getting it at

727
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:24,750
 night, there's a pretty good chance that

728
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:26,375
 it will disturb your sleep.

729
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,125
 But it isn't really, it certainly isn't

730
00:33:30,125 --> 00:33:33,666
 that blue light is

731
00:33:33,666 --> 00:33:37,083
 essentially harmful for us.

732
00:33:37,291 --> 00:33:39,625
 It is that blue light is meant to be

733
00:33:39,625 --> 00:33:41,583
 balanced with that much

734
00:33:41,583 --> 00:33:44,500
 larger amount of the infrared.

735
00:33:46,250 --> 00:33:48,625
 And it just isn't.

736
00:33:49,833 --> 00:33:52,875
 People like Russell Wright, who's big in

737
00:33:52,875 --> 00:33:56,625
 the melatonin field, makes the point that

738
00:33:56,625 --> 00:34:04,375
 as we moved indoors and come to depend on

739
00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:07,250
 electric light, we've deprived ourselves

740
00:34:07,250 --> 00:34:12,375
 of visible light a lot, but much more

741
00:34:12,375 --> 00:34:16,041
 we've deprived ourselves of the infrared.

742
00:34:17,333 --> 00:34:18,625
 And for a start, you remember the old

743
00:34:18,625 --> 00:34:20,666
 light balm, so we can't use it.

744
00:34:20,666 --> 00:34:21,625
 In-condescence, yeah.

745
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:22,375
 Yeah,

746
00:34:23,416 --> 00:34:27,541
 the reason why you can now get a three

747
00:34:27,541 --> 00:34:31,041
 watt or whatever bulb that does the work,

748
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:35,583
 that used to need a 60 watt one, is that

749
00:34:35,583 --> 00:34:37,208
 all that extra energy was

750
00:34:37,208 --> 00:34:40,166
 going to heat to infrared.

751
00:34:41,083 --> 00:34:43,166
 And so we were getting from the lights

752
00:34:43,166 --> 00:34:44,791
 and so forth, we were getting infrared.

753
00:34:45,333 --> 00:34:49,625
 And probably also he's right, in a way we

754
00:34:49,625 --> 00:34:50,750
 were kind of designed

755
00:34:50,750 --> 00:34:52,833
 to sit around a campfire.

756
00:34:53,916 --> 00:34:56,333
 In the main thing, you know, you are all

757
00:34:56,333 --> 00:34:58,416
 facing a campfire, around a circle,

758
00:34:58,625 --> 00:35:00,041
 around the campfire, you're all facing

759
00:35:00,041 --> 00:35:02,833
 the fire, you're all got your chest and

760
00:35:02,833 --> 00:35:04,458
 your heart and so on, particularly it's

761
00:35:04,458 --> 00:35:07,375
 open to the campfire.

762
00:35:07,583 --> 00:35:12,208
 There's a nice bit of vagal

763
00:35:12,208 --> 00:35:14,166
 stimulus from the infrared there.

764
00:35:14,166 --> 00:35:15,750
 And then if you start doing a bit of

765
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:17,291
 communal singing or

766
00:35:17,291 --> 00:35:18,916
 whatever, it gets even better.

767
00:35:18,916 --> 00:35:19,583
 You know, it's perfect,

768
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,083
 vagal work, shall we say.

769
00:35:24,166 --> 00:35:26,125
 And we've lost that as well.

770
00:35:26,541 --> 00:35:28,333
 Yeah, that's an interesting point.

771
00:35:29,041 --> 00:35:30,791
 And I'll quickly before I

772
00:35:30,791 --> 00:35:32,833
 forget, there is some data from

773
00:35:35,791 --> 00:35:37,083
 Yugi Nakashima.

774
00:35:37,083 --> 00:35:39,958
 He's an engineer and I think he's worked,

775
00:35:39,958 --> 00:35:41,625
 obviously out of Japan with a name like

776
00:35:41,708 --> 00:35:43,291
 that, but he's worked at Caltech.

777
00:35:44,083 --> 00:35:47,541
 And he's done some initial

778
00:35:47,541 --> 00:35:51,166
 experimentation looking in, well, he's

779
00:35:51,166 --> 00:35:53,208
 done a few studies actually, and we can

780
00:35:53,208 --> 00:35:54,375
 link them in the show notes in the

781
00:35:54,375 --> 00:35:57,041
 podcast showing that high levels of blue

782
00:35:57,041 --> 00:36:00,875
 light does seem to have a negative effect

783
00:36:00,875 --> 00:36:03,333
 on the skin and that it can increase,

784
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:07,666
 well, oxidative stress in the dermis and

785
00:36:07,666 --> 00:36:11,416
 drive up ROS and that there's obviously,

786
00:36:11,833 --> 00:36:14,458
 from that point onwards, a negative

787
00:36:14,458 --> 00:36:19,166
 association between, well, obviously that

788
00:36:19,166 --> 00:36:21,333
 blue light and then various skin

789
00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:23,291
 conditions, excuse me,

790
00:36:24,333 --> 00:36:26,500
 and obviously people with psoriasis,

791
00:36:27,458 --> 00:36:30,750
 eczema, according to his research anyway,

792
00:36:31,208 --> 00:36:32,708
 may benefit from just

793
00:36:32,708 --> 00:36:34,500
 less blue light exposure.

794
00:36:35,125 --> 00:36:37,791
 Yeah, but they also benefit as, you know,

795
00:36:38,375 --> 00:36:41,500
 every cosmetic doc you come across has a

796
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,291
 room full of different red, infrared

797
00:36:45,291 --> 00:36:48,000
 masks and things like that

798
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,250
 for the face because they work.

799
00:36:50,916 --> 00:36:56,125
 Yeah, so again, you can fix that not by

800
00:36:56,125 --> 00:36:58,541
 depriving yourself of blue light so much

801
00:36:58,541 --> 00:37:01,083
 as by giving yourself decent infrared.

802
00:37:02,250 --> 00:37:03,666
 Get it from the sun, get it from a green

803
00:37:03,666 --> 00:37:06,833
 space, possibly just as good.

804
00:37:07,625 --> 00:37:09,875
 Yeah, no, it just proves the fact that I

805
00:37:09,875 --> 00:37:11,041
 think ultimately we just need

806
00:37:11,041 --> 00:37:13,666
 to get out into the sunlight.

807
00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:17,250
 You raised an interesting point, which

808
00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:18,750
 is, I suppose, the topic of this whole

809
00:37:18,791 --> 00:37:20,458
 conversation, get out into the sunlight.

810
00:37:21,458 --> 00:37:24,208
 You raised an interesting point earlier

811
00:37:24,208 --> 00:37:27,625
 about the vagus nerve and light and I

812
00:37:27,625 --> 00:37:31,333
 know you work a lot with light in your

813
00:37:31,333 --> 00:37:36,500
 practice, having visited you myself and I

814
00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:41,500
 know that you, excuse me, I know that you

815
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:45,541
 also talk a lot about calming the nervous

816
00:37:45,541 --> 00:37:47,375
 system down and we've discussed things

817
00:37:47,375 --> 00:37:49,291
 like stellate ganglion blocks in the past

818
00:37:49,291 --> 00:37:52,708
 and looking at ways to regulate the

819
00:37:52,708 --> 00:37:54,750
 nervous system in that respect.

820
00:37:55,625 --> 00:37:58,208
 Now, would you be open to elaborating on

821
00:37:58,208 --> 00:38:02,875
 how light can help to get you into more,

822
00:38:03,375 --> 00:38:06,500
 get this right, parasympathetic state?

823
00:38:07,625 --> 00:38:10,000
 I think it's got to do with the stellate

824
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,375
 ganglion, but I'm maybe incorrect.

825
00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:18,083
 That's a bit of a one-off, the stellate,

826
00:38:18,083 --> 00:38:19,500
 but it's an interesting story.

827
00:38:20,958 --> 00:38:23,500
 The stellate ganglion is really just a

828
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:30,500
 collection of bundles and nerves in the

829
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,708
 sympathetic immune system, the

830
00:38:32,708 --> 00:38:35,583
 sympathetic nervous system that basically

831
00:38:35,583 --> 00:38:37,458
 runs all runs down here.

832
00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:42,916
 And so it's a fusion of the sympathetic

833
00:38:42,916 --> 00:38:45,875
 nerves coming out of the

834
00:38:45,875 --> 00:38:47,208
 fifth and sixth cervical.

835
00:38:49,291 --> 00:38:49,333
 And

836
00:38:50,833 --> 00:38:53,041
 20% of people don't even have one.

837
00:38:54,583 --> 00:38:56,041
 But you're telling me that.

838
00:38:57,416 --> 00:39:01,333
 There's a technique that they've used for

839
00:39:01,333 --> 00:39:04,500
 years, that amesotis use and so forth.

840
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:10,375
 If you pump local anaesthetic into the

841
00:39:10,375 --> 00:39:13,208
 sympathetic nervous system via the

842
00:39:13,208 --> 00:39:18,333
 stellate ganglion, you can treat things

843
00:39:18,333 --> 00:39:21,625
 like excessive sweating and also

844
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,458
 tachyaglutamism, you know, heart running

845
00:39:24,458 --> 00:39:26,916
 too fast and bad rhythm.

846
00:39:28,166 --> 00:39:30,583
 Which is kind of quite surprising in

847
00:39:30,583 --> 00:39:31,875
 itself, but it does work.

848
00:39:32,625 --> 00:39:38,500
 But it has also been shown now that you

849
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:41,125
 can do the same thing with red light.

850
00:39:41,416 --> 00:39:44,125
 So all you need to do is put it there,

851
00:39:44,125 --> 00:39:45,666
 put the red light there,

852
00:39:46,208 --> 00:39:50,041
 and you get the same effect.

853
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,333
 Presumably because you're dealing there

854
00:39:54,333 --> 00:39:56,541
 with kind of unhealthy

855
00:39:56,541 --> 00:40:00,333
 cells of the nervous system

856
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:02,250
 in general.

857
00:40:03,458 --> 00:40:06,541
 And what we do know that rare infrared

858
00:40:06,541 --> 00:40:08,166
 does, it just makes

859
00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:10,125
 everything work that bit better.

860
00:40:10,916 --> 00:40:13,708
 Probably biocidochromacy oxidase and also

861
00:40:13,708 --> 00:40:17,625
 the virus effects on water and a whole

862
00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:18,833
 bunch of other stuff too.

863
00:40:19,666 --> 00:40:22,708
 What also strikes me about that is if you

864
00:40:22,708 --> 00:40:27,875
 put a mark there, yeah you can get the

865
00:40:27,875 --> 00:40:30,666
 stellate ganglion, which is around here,

866
00:40:31,083 --> 00:40:32,458
 but the vagus nerve is

867
00:40:32,458 --> 00:40:34,000
 going down there as well.

868
00:40:35,333 --> 00:40:37,083
 So you can probably get that.

869
00:40:37,708 --> 00:40:41,875
 And if you irradiate both the vagus and

870
00:40:41,875 --> 00:40:46,458
 the sympathetic, then presumably they'll

871
00:40:46,458 --> 00:40:48,250
 both work better and you'll be in a

872
00:40:48,250 --> 00:40:49,208
 better kind of harmony.

873
00:40:49,791 --> 00:40:52,291
 At the same time, what

874
00:40:52,291 --> 00:40:53,666
 else is here is the thyroid.

875
00:40:54,291 --> 00:40:56,000
 I was about to say exactly that, yeah.

876
00:40:56,541 --> 00:40:59,750
 And there's several studies showing that

877
00:40:59,750 --> 00:41:04,750
 with not very much irradiation with near

878
00:41:04,750 --> 00:41:09,166
 infrared and red of the thyroid, you can

879
00:41:09,166 --> 00:41:13,166
 improve the production of thyroid hormone

880
00:41:13,166 --> 00:41:16,541
 and you can actually treat Hashimoto's

881
00:41:16,541 --> 00:41:20,500
 thyroiditis, which is the commonest

882
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:25,958
 autoimmune disease there is, and which is

883
00:41:25,958 --> 00:41:29,250
 the cause of 95% of

884
00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:32,291
 underactive thyroid production.

885
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,833
 You can improve that.

886
00:41:35,666 --> 00:41:38,125
 You can even damp down the antibody

887
00:41:38,125 --> 00:41:43,041
 levels and the benefit lasts for months.

888
00:41:44,375 --> 00:41:46,666
 So take that on.

889
00:41:46,666 --> 00:41:48,625
 I mean how much else could you treat with

890
00:41:48,625 --> 00:41:52,583
 autoimmune diseases and so forth?

891
00:41:52,583 --> 00:41:53,916
 But stick a light on there.

892
00:41:54,208 --> 00:41:56,416
 I mean fantastic effects.

893
00:41:57,375 --> 00:42:01,166
 Yeah, no, it's definitely a modality that

894
00:42:01,166 --> 00:42:03,291
 more people need to be aware of.

895
00:42:03,291 --> 00:42:04,750
 And like you said, you don't

896
00:42:04,750 --> 00:42:08,000
 need fancy bits of equipment.

897
00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:09,916
 A simple basic red

898
00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:11,291
 light panel will suffice.

899
00:42:12,833 --> 00:42:14,625
 Have you looked into

900
00:42:14,625 --> 00:42:16,166
 these red light IVs at all?

901
00:42:16,666 --> 00:42:18,666
 They're definitely popping up and...

902
00:42:19,083 --> 00:42:20,125
 IVs?

903
00:42:20,625 --> 00:42:22,500
 Yes, have you come across them at all?

904
00:42:23,208 --> 00:42:26,958
 Yeah, I do use IV

905
00:42:26,958 --> 00:42:31,750
 lasers of all colors, really.

906
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,500
 Okay, intervene directly.

907
00:42:34,208 --> 00:42:34,958
 Yeah, yeah.

908
00:42:35,375 --> 00:42:36,125
 Oh, that's interesting.

909
00:42:37,666 --> 00:42:40,833
 Is that light actually, I mean obviously

910
00:42:40,833 --> 00:42:43,291
 that there are photons of light, but is

911
00:42:43,291 --> 00:42:45,708
 that sort of moving through circulation

912
00:42:46,666 --> 00:42:48,833
 beyond just the point to which it's being

913
00:42:48,833 --> 00:42:50,541
 introduced to the body?

914
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,000
 Oh yes, yeah.

915
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:56,375
 I mean, just do it straight and it

916
00:42:56,375 --> 00:43:01,333
 certainly is picked up by the molecules

917
00:43:01,333 --> 00:43:05,708
 in the blood and transported all around.

918
00:43:06,208 --> 00:43:07,958
 You can even do that with...

919
00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:10,000
 Oh, I've got one on here, this thing.

920
00:43:10,625 --> 00:43:12,500
 And what we used to call the laser watch,

921
00:43:13,166 --> 00:43:14,166
 which just shines

922
00:43:14,166 --> 00:43:17,541
 light into the veins here.

923
00:43:18,958 --> 00:43:20,916
 And that carries it all around the body.

924
00:43:20,916 --> 00:43:21,500
 And that certainly

925
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:23,000
 has a beneficial effect.

926
00:43:23,583 --> 00:43:25,666
 If you want to get more power,

927
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:30,125
 more impact, you can use

928
00:43:30,125 --> 00:43:32,041
 photoactivator molecules.

929
00:43:33,041 --> 00:43:36,375
 The most popularly safest ones are

930
00:43:36,375 --> 00:43:39,875
 riboflavin, vinvinibitu and curcumin.

931
00:43:41,958 --> 00:43:44,458
 And you can probably have...

932
00:43:44,458 --> 00:43:49,291
 We talked now about this as antimicrobial

933
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:51,250
 photodynamic therapy.

934
00:43:52,125 --> 00:43:52,708
 And you can get

935
00:43:52,708 --> 00:43:54,375
 results on all sorts of it.

936
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,541
 The guys, they published some papers

937
00:43:58,541 --> 00:44:03,916
 showing that this can work really well on

938
00:44:03,916 --> 00:44:05,666
 infections like COVID.

939
00:44:06,833 --> 00:44:07,958
 There's slightly different techniques

940
00:44:07,958 --> 00:44:12,333
 with COVID, but I think really most

941
00:44:12,333 --> 00:44:19,166
 infections can respond to this and

942
00:44:21,625 --> 00:44:23,458
 they can't become resistant.

943
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:24,416
 This is a problem.

944
00:44:24,708 --> 00:44:25,750
 So, I mean, what I'm

945
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:26,875
 looking at now, this is,

946
00:44:28,041 --> 00:44:29,125
 not stuff for people to

947
00:44:29,125 --> 00:44:30,458
 do themselves, obviously.

948
00:44:31,583 --> 00:44:36,458
 I'm looking at things like Lyme disease,

949
00:44:37,583 --> 00:44:39,750
 Borrelia and the other bugs there, which

950
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:44,208
 people end up on antibiotics for weeks,

951
00:44:44,541 --> 00:44:47,250
 which is not a great thing.

952
00:44:49,583 --> 00:44:53,833
 And so you can combine the antibiotic

953
00:44:53,833 --> 00:44:59,416
 therapy with the photodynamic therapy.

954
00:44:59,416 --> 00:45:00,791
 I think you can achieve

955
00:45:00,791 --> 00:45:02,500
 the same result much better.

956
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:03,791
 Well, there's evidence that you can.

957
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:05,291
 Yeah, I think there's

958
00:45:05,291 --> 00:45:06,291
 antibiotic therapies.

959
00:45:06,583 --> 00:45:08,375
 Obviously, they have their place.

960
00:45:08,583 --> 00:45:12,541
 But when people start to run them for

961
00:45:12,541 --> 00:45:14,500
 months, if not years on end, you're

962
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:17,375
 ultimately going to end up with, God

963
00:45:17,375 --> 00:45:20,125
 knows how many other issues, all sorts of

964
00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:21,041
 bad fungal infections

965
00:45:21,041 --> 00:45:22,291
 developing, et cetera.

966
00:45:23,250 --> 00:45:25,750
 Obviously, we can't have a conversation

967
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:29,833
 about photodynamic substances and

968
00:45:29,833 --> 00:45:32,291
 photoelectric substances without touching

969
00:45:32,291 --> 00:45:36,583
 on methylene blue, which is definitely in

970
00:45:36,583 --> 00:45:37,916
 vogue at the moment.

971
00:45:39,666 --> 00:45:41,333
 Now, I think that it is an

972
00:45:41,333 --> 00:45:44,083
 incredibly useful compound.

973
00:45:44,541 --> 00:45:47,333
 I think that there is something to be

974
00:45:47,333 --> 00:45:50,166
 said about it causing disruptions in

975
00:45:50,166 --> 00:45:53,333
 people with already healthy functioning

976
00:45:53,333 --> 00:45:56,000
 electron transport chains.

977
00:45:56,625 --> 00:45:59,375
 And that has probably been used a bit too

978
00:45:59,416 --> 00:46:01,375
 willy-nilly to be blunt about it.

979
00:46:01,666 --> 00:46:04,500
 However, as a tool, I think it's

980
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:05,458
 incredibly effective.

981
00:46:06,416 --> 00:46:10,333
 I do, again, especially at the doses that

982
00:46:10,333 --> 00:46:12,041
 some people are starting to take it out,

983
00:46:12,458 --> 00:46:16,750
 worry that you start to inhibit certain

984
00:46:16,750 --> 00:46:21,250
 enzymes like MAO, which can maybe create

985
00:46:21,250 --> 00:46:24,250
 issues with histamine and

986
00:46:24,250 --> 00:46:26,000
 other similar reactions.

987
00:46:27,416 --> 00:46:29,666
 What do you think about methylene blue at

988
00:46:29,666 --> 00:46:31,041
 the moment, just broadly speaking?

989
00:46:31,541 --> 00:46:34,250
 It took me a while to be persuaded of the

990
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:35,583
 merits of methylene blue,

991
00:46:35,833 --> 00:46:37,833
 but I did come around to it.

992
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:41,375
 And I pretty much agree with all you say.

993
00:46:41,625 --> 00:46:44,083
 I mean, it's the first

994
00:46:44,083 --> 00:46:48,625
 ever synthetic drug, really.

995
00:46:49,875 --> 00:46:53,541
 And it's not a naturally

996
00:46:53,541 --> 00:46:55,083
 occurring thing in the body.

997
00:46:55,083 --> 00:46:58,000
 So it's not, it's not also

998
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,458
 molecular in the strict term.

999
00:47:02,583 --> 00:47:04,000
 But nonetheless, it does have some

1000
00:47:04,208 --> 00:47:05,375
 remarkable properties.

1001
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:06,541
 And of course,

1002
00:47:07,708 --> 00:47:11,958
 red light and lasers would activate

1003
00:47:11,958 --> 00:47:15,333
 methylene blue as well, vice versa.

1004
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:21,000
 And there are a lot of circumstances in

1005
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,541
 which it may be beneficial to shift more

1006
00:47:25,583 --> 00:47:26,958
 electrons around the body.

1007
00:47:27,708 --> 00:47:34,041
 But actually, it's a case of, as the

1008
00:47:34,041 --> 00:47:37,208
 Irish say, if I was going there, I

1009
00:47:37,208 --> 00:47:38,333
 wouldn't start from here.

1010
00:47:39,208 --> 00:47:41,500
 What you should be starting with is the

1011
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:44,291
 sunlight, having its interaction with

1012
00:47:44,291 --> 00:47:49,000
 structured water and enabling the general

1013
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,541
 flow of electrons around the body and the

1014
00:47:53,541 --> 00:47:56,625
 zeta potential, the negative charge that

1015
00:47:56,625 --> 00:47:58,166
 keeps our blood cells apart.

1016
00:47:59,250 --> 00:48:00,166
 That's a perfect answer.

1017
00:48:00,541 --> 00:48:01,291
 And again, you're setting

1018
00:48:01,291 --> 00:48:02,666
 up my segues for me today.

1019
00:48:03,125 --> 00:48:05,000
 The next thing I want

1020
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,541
 to talk about is water.

1021
00:48:07,833 --> 00:48:10,083
 Now, I know there's this synergy between

1022
00:48:10,083 --> 00:48:10,750
 light and water,

1023
00:48:11,041 --> 00:48:12,500
 specifically structured water.

1024
00:48:12,750 --> 00:48:14,500
 And I think most people would likely

1025
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:16,250
 agree with this, at least from an

1026
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:17,500
 intuitive standpoint.

1027
00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:21,000
 Before we sort of dig into this a bit

1028
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,458
 more, though, would you mind helping me

1029
00:48:23,458 --> 00:48:25,083
 and the audience to understand what

1030
00:48:25,083 --> 00:48:27,666
 exactly structured or easy waters it's

1031
00:48:27,666 --> 00:48:30,458
 sometimes also called actually is?

1032
00:48:30,958 --> 00:48:33,083
 And then why specifically that's so

1033
00:48:33,083 --> 00:48:34,125
 critical to our health?

1034
00:48:34,666 --> 00:48:34,875
 Right.

1035
00:48:35,875 --> 00:48:38,583
 Okay, so I have the struggle now, because

1036
00:48:38,583 --> 00:48:44,125
 the guy who isolated vitamin C, Albert

1037
00:48:44,125 --> 00:48:46,708
 Schenk-Yorgy, I have no idea how to

1038
00:48:46,708 --> 00:48:48,041
 pronounce it, I still don't know.

1039
00:48:49,291 --> 00:48:52,375
 Anyway, 60 years ago, he got very

1040
00:48:52,375 --> 00:48:53,416
 interested in water.

1041
00:48:53,958 --> 00:48:55,791
 And he remarked that

1042
00:48:55,791 --> 00:48:58,250
 there are a number of

1043
00:48:59,708 --> 00:49:03,083
 references stating that all sorts of

1044
00:49:03,083 --> 00:49:04,875
 liquids, not just water,

1045
00:49:05,916 --> 00:49:07,625
 can become more structured

1046
00:49:08,666 --> 00:49:10,083
 when they're in contact

1047
00:49:10,083 --> 00:49:12,500
 with a suitable surface.

1048
00:49:13,333 --> 00:49:14,458
 But let's take the water

1049
00:49:14,458 --> 00:49:16,708
 because it's more clear there.

1050
00:49:17,375 --> 00:49:19,875
 Water is all to do

1051
00:49:19,875 --> 00:49:22,500
 with charge and things.

1052
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:24,083
 If it was something to be water soluble,

1053
00:49:24,708 --> 00:49:26,875
 it needs a bit of charge.

1054
00:49:27,458 --> 00:49:29,041
 They're either positive or negative.

1055
00:49:30,375 --> 00:49:36,875
 And what we now understand is that if you

1056
00:49:36,875 --> 00:49:42,458
 put water in contact with a surface that

1057
00:49:42,458 --> 00:49:43,958
 has a little bit of

1058
00:49:43,958 --> 00:49:46,375
 charge there, doesn't it?

1059
00:49:46,375 --> 00:49:48,208
 It could be negative or positive, quite

1060
00:49:48,208 --> 00:49:50,625
 honestly, it will take on a shape.

1061
00:49:52,041 --> 00:49:54,708
 And it will become what various people

1062
00:49:54,708 --> 00:49:56,166
 have called liquid ice

1063
00:49:56,166 --> 00:49:57,291
 and that kind of thing.

1064
00:49:58,916 --> 00:50:01,583
 And Schenk-Yorgy remarked that there are

1065
00:50:01,583 --> 00:50:04,625
 two melting points for water.

1066
00:50:05,291 --> 00:50:06,208
 One is

1067
00:50:07,541 --> 00:50:09,291
 zero degrees centigrade

1068
00:50:09,291 --> 00:50:11,666
 where solid ice becomes liquid.

1069
00:50:12,583 --> 00:50:15,291
 And the other is somewhere between 30 and

1070
00:50:15,291 --> 00:50:17,916
 40 degrees, so somewhere around our body

1071
00:50:17,916 --> 00:50:23,500
 temperature, where this liquid ice will

1072
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,416
 melt and become water.

1073
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:26,666
 But you don't go

1074
00:50:26,666 --> 00:50:30,250
 outside these parameters.

1075
00:50:31,541 --> 00:50:35,000
 Water in contact with a surface will form

1076
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,791
 just a monolayer, just one layer of

1077
00:50:37,791 --> 00:50:40,208
 molecules of water

1078
00:50:40,208 --> 00:50:42,416
 taking on a hexagonal shape.

1079
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:47,083
 Ordinary solid ice has a hexagonal shape,

1080
00:50:47,083 --> 00:50:49,041
 but it has it in three dimensions.

1081
00:50:50,291 --> 00:50:54,166
 Liquid ice has a hexagonal shape, but

1082
00:50:54,166 --> 00:50:57,541
 only in two dimensions, right?

1083
00:50:57,541 --> 00:50:58,541
 So the successive

1084
00:50:58,541 --> 00:51:01,833
 layers don't bind together.

1085
00:51:03,916 --> 00:51:08,375
 And what happens when you do that is that

1086
00:51:08,375 --> 00:51:11,791
 the ratio of hydrogen into oxygen becomes

1087
00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:17,625
 different because of the hexagonal shape.

1088
00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:20,875
 So it chucks protons out.

1089
00:51:21,125 --> 00:51:22,625
 So that's the first reason why it's

1090
00:51:22,625 --> 00:51:26,208
 called EZ, exclusion zone water.

1091
00:51:28,125 --> 00:51:30,666
 And so the surface on the surface there,

1092
00:51:30,666 --> 00:51:33,458
 it has a negative charge and the bulk

1093
00:51:33,458 --> 00:51:34,541
 water, as they call it

1094
00:51:34,541 --> 00:51:36,583
 outside that, has a positive charge.

1095
00:51:38,875 --> 00:51:42,375
 Now, what can then happen is that

1096
00:51:42,375 --> 00:51:44,500
 infrared light in particular

1097
00:51:45,875 --> 00:51:49,291
 will cause more layers of

1098
00:51:49,291 --> 00:51:52,208
 structured water to build up.

1099
00:51:54,666 --> 00:51:57,833
 And you can even get from that, you can

1100
00:51:57,833 --> 00:52:00,083
 get a flow of the

1101
00:52:00,083 --> 00:52:01,833
 protons and so forth outside.

1102
00:52:01,833 --> 00:52:04,833
 You get flow in the bulk water,

1103
00:52:05,541 --> 00:52:06,708
 spontaneously get flow.

1104
00:52:08,083 --> 00:52:11,791
 But you'll also in the hexagonal water,

1105
00:52:12,291 --> 00:52:14,333
 you'll get a flow of both

1106
00:52:14,333 --> 00:52:16,666
 electrons and protons along it.

1107
00:52:16,666 --> 00:52:20,250
 It's a very good conducting system.

1108
00:52:21,875 --> 00:52:26,083
 And it seems that if you like, I call it

1109
00:52:26,083 --> 00:52:27,458
 an electron superhighway.

1110
00:52:29,125 --> 00:52:32,958
 And that enables communication everywhere

1111
00:52:32,958 --> 00:52:34,000
 throughout the body.

1112
00:52:34,375 --> 00:52:36,958
 And when you think about it,

1113
00:52:38,333 --> 00:52:41,875
 because there's so much surface inside

1114
00:52:41,875 --> 00:52:43,000
 the body, we're kind

1115
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,125
 of all surface, really.

1116
00:52:46,958 --> 00:52:49,833
 And so all these surfaces, the cells and

1117
00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:51,375
 the molecules, you know, big proteins and

1118
00:52:51,375 --> 00:52:54,375
 so forth have a lot, can accommodate a

1119
00:52:54,375 --> 00:52:59,208
 lot of structured water around them.

1120
00:53:00,125 --> 00:53:02,708
 And the whole interstitium, the bit

1121
00:53:02,708 --> 00:53:06,291
 outside the actual cells, is full of

1122
00:53:06,291 --> 00:53:08,041
 molecules that will do that.

1123
00:53:08,041 --> 00:53:09,416
 And some of them, of course, are

1124
00:53:09,416 --> 00:53:11,500
 collagen, the thing, the

1125
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:13,166
 stuff that holds us together.

1126
00:53:13,791 --> 00:53:14,666
 And without collagen,

1127
00:53:14,750 --> 00:53:16,250
 we become a blob really.

1128
00:53:18,416 --> 00:53:22,375
 And so this is a super conducting system.

1129
00:53:24,041 --> 00:53:27,583
 And this actually makes a lot of things

1130
00:53:27,583 --> 00:53:30,500
 work better, including the mitochondria

1131
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:31,833
 and their energy production.

1132
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,375
 Yeah, no, I can imagine if you've got

1133
00:53:34,375 --> 00:53:36,708
 electrons that are flowing more easily

1134
00:53:36,750 --> 00:53:38,875
 through a medium, you're going to have

1135
00:53:38,875 --> 00:53:40,791
 improved cellular communication, you're

1136
00:53:40,791 --> 00:53:41,500
 going to have improved

1137
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:42,625
 mitochondrial function.

1138
00:53:42,625 --> 00:53:46,000
 And as I recently spoke to, as you know,

1139
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,583
 Jillian Kralth, and she was talking

1140
00:53:47,583 --> 00:53:50,625
 specifically about the other roles that

1141
00:53:50,625 --> 00:53:53,791
 mitochondria play beyond just energy

1142
00:53:53,791 --> 00:53:55,291
 production in the body in

1143
00:53:55,291 --> 00:53:56,541
 the spruce production of ATP.

1144
00:53:57,041 --> 00:54:00,083
 So no, it makes complete total sense.

1145
00:54:00,291 --> 00:54:02,125
 And thank you for bringing up that point

1146
00:54:02,125 --> 00:54:03,416
 about superconductors.

1147
00:54:03,416 --> 00:54:07,083
 I know that's something that Jack Cruz,

1148
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:09,750
 bless him, goes on about a lot when I

1149
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:11,000
 actually understand a

1150
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,000
 word of what man's saying.

1151
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:16,291
 That was great.

1152
00:54:16,541 --> 00:54:17,625
 Thank you very much, Dr.

1153
00:54:17,625 --> 00:54:17,833
 Darling.

1154
00:54:18,125 --> 00:54:20,291
 I'll admit I may have to re-listen to

1155
00:54:20,291 --> 00:54:21,666
 some of that, but I got the gist.

1156
00:54:22,041 --> 00:54:22,625
 So thank you.

1157
00:54:23,708 --> 00:54:27,208
 I'd like to move on to this concept of

1158
00:54:27,208 --> 00:54:29,041
 zeta potential, which I know sort of

1159
00:54:29,041 --> 00:54:31,916
 underlies a lot of what you've just said.

1160
00:54:32,583 --> 00:54:35,791
 Now, again, I'm to quote A.A.

1161
00:54:35,791 --> 00:54:37,875
 Milne, a bearer of very little brain.

1162
00:54:39,208 --> 00:54:40,541
 So I don't understand the

1163
00:54:40,541 --> 00:54:42,291
 concept, it's an instant parity.

1164
00:54:42,291 --> 00:54:44,250
 But what I do understand is that it's

1165
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:46,791
 essentially a negative charge that keeps

1166
00:54:46,791 --> 00:54:49,291
 cells separate and flowing.

1167
00:54:50,750 --> 00:54:53,833
 Maybe beyond this point, though, I sort

1168
00:54:53,833 --> 00:54:54,916
 of fall into the I'm

1169
00:54:54,916 --> 00:54:55,791
 a bit dense category.

1170
00:54:55,791 --> 00:54:58,291
 So I don't understand it entirely.

1171
00:54:59,416 --> 00:55:02,208
 But could you help us to understand what

1172
00:55:02,208 --> 00:55:04,625
 zeta potential is, and how this

1173
00:55:04,625 --> 00:55:06,500
 combination of light and water then I

1174
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:08,000
 suppose makes life possible?

1175
00:55:08,875 --> 00:55:09,958
 Yeah, if you've come

1176
00:55:09,958 --> 00:55:13,958
 across live blood microscopy,

1177
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,500
 dark field microscopy.

1178
00:55:17,166 --> 00:55:19,750
 So to one or the first, if you're sick

1179
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:21,708
 and you go and somebody takes a sample of

1180
00:55:21,708 --> 00:55:24,125
 blood and looks at a microscope that way,

1181
00:55:25,458 --> 00:55:27,541
 one of the first things they're likely to

1182
00:55:27,541 --> 00:55:30,166
 say is, oh, look, all your red blood

1183
00:55:30,166 --> 00:55:31,625
 cells are clumping together.

1184
00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:34,291
 Now,

1185
00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:36,583
 you've got positive

1186
00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:37,708
 charges, negative charges.

1187
00:55:39,125 --> 00:55:41,666
 Like charges repel each

1188
00:55:41,666 --> 00:55:44,416
 other, opposite charges attract.

1189
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:47,208
 Right.

1190
00:55:48,791 --> 00:55:53,083
 So the zeta potential is the negative

1191
00:55:53,083 --> 00:55:56,750
 charge on the surface of the red blood

1192
00:55:56,750 --> 00:56:00,041
 cells that keeps them apart, stops them

1193
00:56:00,041 --> 00:56:01,416
 clumping, and therefore

1194
00:56:01,416 --> 00:56:03,375
 makes them flow much better.

1195
00:56:05,208 --> 00:56:08,166
 I mean, there's a load more to that, but

1196
00:56:08,166 --> 00:56:10,083
 that's basically it.

1197
00:56:10,750 --> 00:56:13,791
 And where it comes from is the

1198
00:56:15,416 --> 00:56:18,791
 the structured water on the surface,

1199
00:56:18,791 --> 00:56:23,375
 which is is negatively charged and the

1200
00:56:23,375 --> 00:56:26,083
 positive charge goes away from that.

1201
00:56:27,916 --> 00:56:34,958
 And that is obviously helped by infrared

1202
00:56:34,958 --> 00:56:37,000
 light, building up the

1203
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,208
 layers of the structured water.

1204
00:56:42,833 --> 00:56:45,958
 But it's also helped by ultraviolet,

1205
00:56:47,333 --> 00:56:49,666
 which increases the

1206
00:56:49,666 --> 00:56:52,166
 negative charge in those layers.

1207
00:56:55,291 --> 00:56:59,416
 And of course, there's Stephanie Seneff,

1208
00:56:59,958 --> 00:57:01,666
 this is at MIT, isn't she?

1209
00:57:01,666 --> 00:57:03,833
 She's a brilliant writer and thinker

1210
00:57:03,833 --> 00:57:06,041
 about these sorts of things.

1211
00:57:06,041 --> 00:57:10,541
 She reckons that one of the main purposes

1212
00:57:10,541 --> 00:57:17,875
 of cholesterol is to provide the sulfate.

1213
00:57:18,875 --> 00:57:20,791
 Because cholesterol is a

1214
00:57:20,791 --> 00:57:22,833
 lipid, it's oil soluble,

1215
00:57:24,208 --> 00:57:27,250
 typically it's in the

1216
00:57:27,250 --> 00:57:29,708
 membrane of the cells.

1217
00:57:30,708 --> 00:57:31,250
 And typically the thing

1218
00:57:31,250 --> 00:57:32,833
 is called lipid rafts.

1219
00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:34,708
 On there, it doesn't

1220
00:57:34,708 --> 00:57:36,666
 wander off in through the water.

1221
00:57:37,625 --> 00:57:37,833
 Right.

1222
00:57:38,208 --> 00:57:40,250
 Well, if it's there on the surface of the

1223
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:42,500
 cell, the membrane of a cell, then the

1224
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:45,791
 sulfate charge it brings with it will

1225
00:57:45,791 --> 00:57:49,875
 provide a negative charge to the to the

1226
00:57:49,875 --> 00:57:51,500
 cell as well will boost

1227
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:53,083
 negative charge if you like.

1228
00:57:53,083 --> 00:57:57,458
 So that makes everything flow better and

1229
00:57:57,458 --> 00:58:01,000
 improve the oxygenation and everything.

1230
00:58:01,583 --> 00:58:01,791
 Right.

1231
00:58:02,916 --> 00:58:05,958
 And so, I mean, that's all about

1232
00:58:05,958 --> 00:58:09,000
 providing electrons.

1233
00:58:09,625 --> 00:58:11,375
 And you see the ultraviolet has a role

1234
00:58:11,375 --> 00:58:13,000
 there as well as the infrared.

1235
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,500
 And, you know, the biochemists say that

1236
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:21,000
 we need they say that we pH.

1237
00:58:21,708 --> 00:58:28,000
 So we urinate out hydrogen ions, protons,

1238
00:58:29,041 --> 00:58:30,125
 positive charges.

1239
00:58:31,625 --> 00:58:34,458
 And also they make the point that

1240
00:58:36,666 --> 00:58:40,500
 we need all of these things.

1241
00:58:40,500 --> 00:58:42,000
 We produce water by

1242
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,500
 mitochondrial activity.

1243
00:58:44,916 --> 00:58:47,541
 And that water is guys pure water and

1244
00:58:47,541 --> 00:58:50,041
 it's some what we could

1245
00:58:50,041 --> 00:58:52,291
 call deuterium depleted water.

1246
00:58:52,291 --> 00:58:55,875
 So it doesn't have the deuterium the

1247
00:58:55,875 --> 00:58:57,250
 message that messes

1248
00:58:57,250 --> 00:58:59,291
 up with the whole ATP.

1249
00:58:59,625 --> 00:59:02,791
 Deuterium, which is a

1250
00:59:02,791 --> 00:59:05,666
 double hydrogen molecule,

1251
00:59:07,625 --> 00:59:14,791
 it makes the structured water layer

1252
00:59:14,791 --> 00:59:16,708
 there, particularly around the

1253
00:59:16,708 --> 00:59:18,625
 mitochondria more viscous.

1254
00:59:19,416 --> 00:59:22,250
 So it slows down the energy production.

1255
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:24,958
 I think Stephanie was at

1256
00:59:24,958 --> 00:59:25,875
 Senate that you mentioned.

1257
00:59:25,875 --> 00:59:27,166
 I think she's done a lot of

1258
00:59:28,208 --> 00:59:30,416
 works directly into this idea of

1259
00:59:30,416 --> 00:59:31,666
 deuterium depletion as well.

1260
00:59:32,291 --> 00:59:34,208
 And I know we're getting off

1261
00:59:34,208 --> 00:59:35,375
 on a bit of a tangent there.

1262
00:59:35,916 --> 00:59:38,500
 But yeah, how if you were just to

1263
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:40,041
 elaborate on what you were just saying,

1264
00:59:40,333 --> 00:59:43,708
 why is a deuterium such an issue when it

1265
00:59:43,708 --> 00:59:46,041
 starts when it comes down to the sort of

1266
00:59:46,041 --> 00:59:48,250
 flow of electrons and mitochondrial

1267
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:49,333
 function in general?

1268
00:59:50,375 --> 00:59:55,000
 What mitochondria do is using this

1269
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,541
 electro, the complex is the big molecules

1270
00:59:57,541 --> 00:59:59,750
 of the electron transport chain.

1271
01:00:00,125 --> 01:00:05,083
 They build up protons, positive charges

1272
01:00:05,083 --> 01:00:10,500
 in the inter-membrane space.

1273
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:11,000
 They have a double

1274
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,291
 layer thing on top of them.

1275
01:00:15,291 --> 01:00:19,333
 And inside there, they build up protons.

1276
01:00:19,333 --> 01:00:21,666
 So it's exactly like a battery.

1277
01:00:21,666 --> 01:00:22,750
 I mean, it is a battery.

1278
01:00:23,416 --> 01:00:23,625
 Right.

1279
01:00:24,083 --> 01:00:29,583
 And then those protons go back into the

1280
01:00:29,583 --> 01:00:33,625
 inside of the mitochondria through this

1281
01:00:34,041 --> 01:00:37,333
 molecule called ATP synthase, which has a

1282
01:00:37,333 --> 01:00:43,416
 three-way symmetry if you like.

1283
01:00:44,291 --> 01:00:45,583
 It rotates.

1284
01:00:46,125 --> 01:00:50,708
 Every time a proton is pushed through

1285
01:00:50,708 --> 01:00:52,750
 that, it rotates the head of

1286
01:00:52,750 --> 01:00:57,333
 the molecule by 120 degrees.

1287
01:00:58,291 --> 01:00:58,791
 And that

1288
01:00:59,875 --> 01:01:03,166
 upgrades one molecule of ADP,

1289
01:01:03,166 --> 01:01:07,375
 adenodiphosphate to ATP, triphosphate.

1290
01:01:07,666 --> 01:01:10,041
 That's our main energy currency.

1291
01:01:11,208 --> 01:01:14,541
 So this is a very small thing.

1292
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:20,041
 I've still got a video that somebody in

1293
01:01:20,041 --> 01:01:22,000
 Japan actually managed to put a

1294
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,750
 fluorescent marker on it and film it

1295
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:29,375
 going around by 120 degrees at time.

1296
01:01:31,208 --> 01:01:32,208
 It was a wonderful thing.

1297
01:01:33,791 --> 01:01:35,750
 But this is very, very small.

1298
01:01:35,958 --> 01:01:38,291
 It's the opposite of stuff

1299
01:01:38,291 --> 01:01:39,750
 that's visible from space.

1300
01:01:40,833 --> 01:01:42,500
 It's barely visible at all.

1301
01:01:44,458 --> 01:01:49,000
 And it is therefore easily clogged up by

1302
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,458
 stuff getting in there, like deuterium,

1303
01:01:52,458 --> 01:01:55,583
 which is just a molecule that's just that

1304
01:01:55,583 --> 01:01:58,375
 bit too big for the whole process.

1305
01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:03,458
 So it slows down the rotary action.

1306
01:02:04,916 --> 01:02:07,708
 Yeah, I think there's a case to be made

1307
01:02:07,708 --> 01:02:10,250
 again about why reducing carbohydrate

1308
01:02:10,250 --> 01:02:13,625
 consumption can be an effective tool to

1309
01:02:13,625 --> 01:02:16,583
 help reduce deuterium as well.

1310
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,541
 As I understand it, following a lower

1311
01:02:20,541 --> 01:02:24,333
 carbohydrate actually diet actually helps

1312
01:02:24,333 --> 01:02:26,041
 to reduce the

1313
01:02:26,041 --> 01:02:28,625
 deuterium levels in the body.

1314
01:02:31,583 --> 01:02:31,791
 Dr.

1315
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,000
 Darling, I know we've only really

1316
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,208
 scratched the surface today, but I also

1317
01:02:35,208 --> 01:02:37,333
 know that you probably have patients in a

1318
01:02:37,333 --> 01:02:39,208
 life beyond just keeping me and the

1319
01:02:39,208 --> 01:02:40,000
 audience entertained.

1320
01:02:40,875 --> 01:02:43,958
 So I'd like to pivot to maybe talking

1321
01:02:43,958 --> 01:02:47,750
 about what we can do to optimize our

1322
01:02:48,583 --> 01:02:49,958
 lighting environments and

1323
01:02:49,958 --> 01:02:51,458
 subsequently our health.

1324
01:02:52,041 --> 01:02:53,083
 Now, I know there are a

1325
01:02:53,083 --> 01:02:54,166
 lot of parallels here.

1326
01:02:54,708 --> 01:02:57,250
 And of course, we've got to touch on the

1327
01:02:57,250 --> 01:02:59,666
 piece about EMS because they obviously

1328
01:02:59,666 --> 01:03:01,833
 are going to play a

1329
01:03:01,833 --> 01:03:03,250
 large role in it as well.

1330
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,333
 But if you would be open to providing a

1331
01:03:06,333 --> 01:03:08,666
 framework that the audience could maybe

1332
01:03:08,666 --> 01:03:13,708
 use to optimize the environments in which

1333
01:03:13,708 --> 01:03:15,916
 they live, they operate, I think that

1334
01:03:15,916 --> 01:03:16,916
 would be very helpful.

1335
01:03:17,541 --> 01:03:19,125
 Obviously light being the focus.

1336
01:03:20,333 --> 01:03:21,875
 And again, I know there are many moving

1337
01:03:21,875 --> 01:03:24,958
 pieces, but when working with patients,

1338
01:03:25,250 --> 01:03:27,333
 how do you counsel them in this regard

1339
01:03:27,333 --> 01:03:29,791
 and tell them to see

1340
01:03:29,791 --> 01:03:31,291
 the width of the trees?

1341
01:03:32,208 --> 01:03:32,416
 Okay.

1342
01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:36,833
 So the first thing you need to understand

1343
01:03:36,833 --> 01:03:40,083
 is that it's not an absolute, it's not a

1344
01:03:40,083 --> 01:03:43,208
 binary, a black and white thing that you

1345
01:03:43,208 --> 01:03:46,875
 have to get all the devices, RID or

1346
01:03:46,875 --> 01:03:50,041
 whatever, and be totally free of EMFs.

1347
01:03:50,041 --> 01:03:51,416
 You can't really do that

1348
01:03:51,416 --> 01:03:53,708
 in the real world anyway.

1349
01:03:54,916 --> 01:03:58,833
 And actually, you don't need to because

1350
01:03:58,833 --> 01:04:01,750
 it turns out every bit helps.

1351
01:04:02,625 --> 01:04:05,708
 One of the most interesting studies in

1352
01:04:05,708 --> 01:04:09,375
 this regard was one that Trevor Marshall

1353
01:04:09,375 --> 01:04:12,583
 did about 10 years ago, where he gave

1354
01:04:12,666 --> 01:04:19,000
 people a hood that screams out

1355
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,416
 electromagnetic fields, or at least some

1356
01:04:22,416 --> 01:04:24,333
 of them, it partially screams in her.

1357
01:04:24,916 --> 01:04:29,500
 And he asked them to wear this for four

1358
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:31,125
 hours sleeping and four

1359
01:04:31,125 --> 01:04:33,166
 hours waking in the 24.

1360
01:04:33,708 --> 01:04:35,166
 So that's one third of the

1361
01:04:35,166 --> 01:04:38,125
 time they were using this thing.

1362
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:41,833
 These were people with active, they were

1363
01:04:41,833 --> 01:04:45,000
 on treatment for autoimmune diseases,

1364
01:04:46,083 --> 01:04:47,583
 cold assortment of them.

1365
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:53,166
 Right. And so they did this for three weeks.

1366
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,875
 And 90% of them experienced an effect.

1367
01:05:01,291 --> 01:05:01,625
 Now that

1368
01:05:02,666 --> 01:05:06,375
 is really surprising to me that, I mean,

1369
01:05:06,666 --> 01:05:08,416
 the best that can have done

1370
01:05:09,583 --> 01:05:13,500
 is to reduce their EMF exposure by 25%.

1371
01:05:15,500 --> 01:05:19,208
 And yet it has an effect.

1372
01:05:19,875 --> 01:05:21,708
 And it is not surprising to me that it

1373
01:05:21,708 --> 01:05:23,291
 wasn't always a good effect, because

1374
01:05:23,291 --> 01:05:26,416
 we've learned this about electro

1375
01:05:26,416 --> 01:05:30,041
 sensitive people, certainly, that you

1376
01:05:30,041 --> 01:05:31,041
 have to be very careful

1377
01:05:31,041 --> 01:05:32,583
 about switching it off.

1378
01:05:32,583 --> 01:05:33,666
 You know, every body's

1379
01:05:33,666 --> 01:05:35,125
 just got adapted to it.

1380
01:05:35,125 --> 01:05:38,166
 Maybe it's like food allergy is the, you

1381
01:05:38,166 --> 01:05:40,166
 know, the other side of

1382
01:05:40,166 --> 01:05:42,041
 food allergy is an addiction.

1383
01:05:43,458 --> 01:05:44,916
 Quickly on that one, do you think that's

1384
01:05:44,916 --> 01:05:46,500
 having a sort of an immuno that's

1385
01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:47,291
 obviously driving an

1386
01:05:47,291 --> 01:05:48,875
 immunological response then?

1387
01:05:48,875 --> 01:05:49,958
 Would that be correct?

1388
01:05:49,958 --> 01:05:51,291
 There's people who are electro

1389
01:05:51,291 --> 01:05:52,375
 magnetically sensitive?

1390
01:05:52,958 --> 01:05:53,166
 Well,

1391
01:05:55,291 --> 01:05:57,000
 certainly an inflammatory response.

1392
01:05:57,541 --> 01:05:58,208
 Yeah, that was it.

1393
01:05:58,208 --> 01:06:00,166
 Sorry, I was just trying to maybe

1394
01:06:00,166 --> 01:06:02,583
 understand and paint a picture for the

1395
01:06:02,583 --> 01:06:05,541
 audience as to what happens when people

1396
01:06:05,541 --> 01:06:07,583
 are electro magnetically sensitive, that

1397
01:06:07,583 --> 01:06:10,833
 that's sort of upregulating many of the

1398
01:06:10,833 --> 01:06:12,166
 immunological processes

1399
01:06:12,166 --> 01:06:13,916
 that then drive inflammation.

1400
01:06:16,416 --> 01:06:17,041
 Okay, perfect.

1401
01:06:17,041 --> 01:06:18,291
 Yeah, sorry to interrupt you.

1402
01:06:18,875 --> 01:06:19,750
 No, no, no, it's okay.

1403
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:23,458
 So I think that what you need to do, that

1404
01:06:23,458 --> 01:06:27,000
 we should all do, is at least try and

1405
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:33,708
 limit EMF exposure, get less bad vibes.

1406
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:37,500
 And, you know, the way to start that

1407
01:06:37,500 --> 01:06:41,958
 obviously would be your sleeping area,

1408
01:06:42,625 --> 01:06:46,541
 you know, no phones, no anything there

1409
01:06:46,541 --> 01:06:50,666
 that's emitting whatever, Wi-Fi, if you

1410
01:06:50,666 --> 01:06:52,083
 have to have it far, far away.

1411
01:06:53,458 --> 01:06:54,041
 And so forth.

1412
01:06:54,041 --> 01:06:55,625
 So there you're getting, you should be

1413
01:06:55,625 --> 01:06:57,208
 getting, you know, maybe eight hours

1414
01:06:59,416 --> 01:07:02,166
 of relatively free things.

1415
01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:04,500
 And the other thing you should be doing

1416
01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:07,291
 is getting more sunlight.

1417
01:07:10,083 --> 01:07:12,791
 And ideally, first thing in the morning,

1418
01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:18,291
 when you activate the adrenal, the

1419
01:07:18,291 --> 01:07:21,875
 adrenaline driven sympathetic system, and

1420
01:07:21,875 --> 01:07:24,458
 with some exercise, you can bring your

1421
01:07:24,458 --> 01:07:25,875
 melatonin level up nicely.

1422
01:07:27,250 --> 01:07:29,375
 Yeah, back to the melatonin piece again.

1423
01:07:30,791 --> 01:07:31,875
 That's very sort of sound advice.

1424
01:07:31,875 --> 01:07:36,333
 And I think there's definitely some tips

1425
01:07:36,333 --> 01:07:37,166
 and tricks there with

1426
01:07:37,166 --> 01:07:38,875
 regards to EMF exposure too.

1427
01:07:38,875 --> 01:07:41,500
 And I think maybe utilizing things like

1428
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:44,125
 magnesium supplementation in the evening

1429
01:07:44,125 --> 01:07:47,541
 to sort of help offset that, that those

1430
01:07:47,541 --> 01:07:50,166
 calcium, those calcium voltage channels

1431
01:07:50,166 --> 01:07:52,625
 are, are good ideas.

1432
01:07:53,333 --> 01:07:55,833
 And yeah,

1433
01:07:56,250 --> 01:07:58,125
 we don't have time to go into that.

1434
01:07:58,125 --> 01:07:58,250
 There are a long list of
 things here that

1435
01:07:58,291 --> 01:08:04,125
 things that can help in this regard.

1436
01:08:04,125 --> 01:08:06,750
 And he has absolutely right magnesium and

1437
01:08:06,750 --> 01:08:09,041
 vitamin D, of course, still important.

1438
01:08:10,583 --> 01:08:12,375
 Just because we have discovered this

1439
01:08:12,375 --> 01:08:14,458
 other stuff about light doesn't mean that

1440
01:08:14,458 --> 01:08:15,666
 vitamin D went away.

1441
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:21,708
 So this is one of the hood type things that you can put on.

1442
01:08:21,708 --> 01:08:25,791
 I'm not going to put it on because it

1443
01:08:25,791 --> 01:08:28,666
 completely mess up the earphones and the

1444
01:08:28,666 --> 01:08:29,833
 glasses and so forth.

1445
01:08:30,583 --> 01:08:33,041
 But it covers the whole, you can get

1446
01:08:33,041 --> 01:08:35,541
 beanie hats that do the same thing, but I

1447
01:08:35,541 --> 01:08:37,083
 don't see the sense of that.

1448
01:08:37,083 --> 01:08:40,791
 We don't want to just scream the top

1449
01:08:40,791 --> 01:08:42,250
 third of your brain, do you?

1450
01:08:42,250 --> 01:08:45,208
 And also, a good point,

1451
01:08:46,208 --> 01:08:48,541
 you know, let's get the, while we're

1452
01:08:48,541 --> 01:08:52,041
 getting good light to the stelaganglin

1453
01:08:52,041 --> 01:08:54,000
 and the vagus nerve and so forth in the

1454
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:55,541
 neck, let's also screen

1455
01:08:55,541 --> 01:08:57,500
 some EMF's away from the neck.

1456
01:08:58,416 --> 01:08:59,666
 That makes sense.

1457
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:00,666
 That's what's good.

1458
01:09:00,666 --> 01:09:01,500
 Take the thyroid as well.

1459
01:09:01,750 --> 01:09:01,958
 Yeah.

1460
01:09:02,625 --> 01:09:02,833
 Yeah.

1461
01:09:03,125 --> 01:09:04,958
 The other thing I

1462
01:09:04,958 --> 01:09:07,000
 wanted to show you is this,

1463
01:09:08,208 --> 01:09:08,916
 which is a space blanket.

1464
01:09:09,125 --> 01:09:13,083
 Which is a space blanket, you know, sort

1465
01:09:13,083 --> 01:09:14,125
 of thing they give you

1466
01:09:14,125 --> 01:09:16,000
 at the end of a marathon.

1467
01:09:18,083 --> 01:09:18,333
 Okay.

1468
01:09:19,291 --> 01:09:22,583
 And there's a guy online called Peter

1469
01:09:22,583 --> 01:09:24,458
 Vito who figured this out.

1470
01:09:24,791 --> 01:09:26,500
 He published a thing saying,

1471
01:09:27,625 --> 01:09:32,000
 maybe this is the second best light

1472
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,500
 therapy device there is.

1473
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:37,041
 The first one being the sun, obviously.

1474
01:09:37,750 --> 01:09:40,291
 So what he worked out is this thing will

1475
01:09:40,291 --> 01:09:43,458
 reflect EMF's, photons,

1476
01:09:43,458 --> 01:09:45,666
 whatever, back into you.

1477
01:09:46,833 --> 01:09:51,208
 And we're all producing biophotons, as

1478
01:09:51,208 --> 01:09:54,458
 they call it, all the time on UWEs,

1479
01:09:54,458 --> 01:09:56,166
 ultra-weak photon emissions,

1480
01:09:57,250 --> 01:09:58,500
 they also call it.

1481
01:09:58,708 --> 01:10:02,708
 And they range from ultraviolet to

1482
01:10:02,708 --> 01:10:04,041
 infrared, with something

1483
01:10:04,041 --> 01:10:05,333
 of a peak in the yellow.

1484
01:10:05,625 --> 01:10:07,166
 But normally you can't see them because

1485
01:10:07,166 --> 01:10:08,375
 it's much more light around.

1486
01:10:09,250 --> 01:10:11,416
 But you can reflect them back in.

1487
01:10:11,416 --> 01:10:15,708
 So use this and just wrap it around

1488
01:10:15,708 --> 01:10:17,750
 yourself outside like clothing.

1489
01:10:18,416 --> 01:10:20,541
 You don't want to put it next to the skin

1490
01:10:20,541 --> 01:10:25,041
 or the metal will just conduct the heat

1491
01:10:25,041 --> 01:10:27,083
 away from your body.

1492
01:10:27,500 --> 01:10:29,583
 But you put it outside, I think, or just

1493
01:10:29,583 --> 01:10:32,333
 under or above the top sheet or under the

1494
01:10:32,333 --> 01:10:34,291
 bottom sheet or something like that.

1495
01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:38,041
 It will work fine that way.

1496
01:10:38,041 --> 01:10:40,166
 I mean, he says if you do it under the

1497
01:10:40,166 --> 01:10:42,625
 under sheet, then get some earplugs as

1498
01:10:42,625 --> 01:10:43,791
 well, because it keeps doing

1499
01:10:45,250 --> 01:10:46,041
 sort of sound.

1500
01:10:47,125 --> 01:10:50,791
 But he got some benefit from it.

1501
01:10:50,791 --> 01:10:51,916
 He said that, you know,

1502
01:10:51,916 --> 01:10:53,625
 it's a strange effect.

1503
01:10:53,625 --> 01:10:55,208
 It's not like just being warm.

1504
01:10:56,208 --> 01:10:58,416
 There is a definite effect there.

1505
01:10:58,708 --> 01:11:01,916
 I now started using it with patients.

1506
01:11:02,375 --> 01:11:06,625
 I got one guy who was not only

1507
01:11:06,625 --> 01:11:08,041
 electro-sensitive, but actually

1508
01:11:08,041 --> 01:11:10,000
 photo-sensitive, light-sensitive.

1509
01:11:12,333 --> 01:11:16,750
 And so he hadn't been out for months

1510
01:11:16,750 --> 01:11:20,583
 because he seemed to react to the light.

1511
01:11:20,625 --> 01:11:26,708
 He started using this for seconds.

1512
01:11:27,083 --> 01:11:31,583
 He began with, I think, 20 seconds a day,

1513
01:11:31,916 --> 01:11:35,041
 built up gradually day by day until he

1514
01:11:35,041 --> 01:11:37,541
 was doing it for 75

1515
01:11:37,541 --> 01:11:39,583
 minutes several times a day.

1516
01:11:40,291 --> 01:11:42,166
 At which point he said, you're going to

1517
01:11:42,166 --> 01:11:43,750
 have to move on from here, otherwise

1518
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:44,250
 you're not going to

1519
01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:45,458
 have time to have a life.

1520
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:50,333
 And so he started going outdoors as well.

1521
01:11:50,625 --> 01:11:53,166
 And lo and behold, he tolerated just for

1522
01:11:53,166 --> 01:11:56,541
 a few seconds to begin with, but

1523
01:11:56,541 --> 01:11:58,000
 gradually more and more and more.

1524
01:11:58,875 --> 01:12:01,666
 And so last thing I heard from him, this

1525
01:12:01,666 --> 01:12:04,708
 is a year after starting this project

1526
01:12:04,708 --> 01:12:08,458
 with the space blanket, is that the

1527
01:12:08,458 --> 01:12:13,208
 sunlight is having, sunlight is starting

1528
01:12:13,208 --> 01:12:15,291
 to have a profound

1529
01:12:15,291 --> 01:12:17,375
 effect on my energy levels.

1530
01:12:18,625 --> 01:12:21,041
 And I think this is going

1531
01:12:21,041 --> 01:12:22,458
 to be a real breakthrough.

1532
01:12:23,416 --> 01:12:23,958
 That's incredible.

1533
01:12:24,666 --> 01:12:26,625
 I was just doing a quick Google while you

1534
01:12:26,625 --> 01:12:28,666
 were talking and looking into sort of how

1535
01:12:28,666 --> 01:12:30,041
 space blankets were made, because

1536
01:12:30,041 --> 01:12:32,541
 embarrassingly I didn't know.

1537
01:12:33,041 --> 01:12:34,791
 And I wonder if there wouldn't be all

1538
01:12:34,791 --> 01:12:37,041
 some sort of Faraday effect with, by

1539
01:12:37,041 --> 01:12:38,833
 using them to potentially, if you're sort

1540
01:12:38,833 --> 01:12:40,791
 of sleeping at night.

1541
01:12:42,333 --> 01:12:45,291
 And if you're sort of trying to offset

1542
01:12:45,291 --> 01:12:49,500
 that EMF exposure in the evening, maybe

1543
01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:52,750
 it would be a useful

1544
01:12:52,750 --> 01:12:54,041
 tool in that regard too.

1545
01:12:55,041 --> 01:12:57,750
 I was looking at some day to the other

1546
01:12:57,750 --> 01:13:01,000
 day on Faraday cages and they were

1547
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,458
 started to talk about why they may be

1548
01:13:03,458 --> 01:13:06,083
 detrimental from the point of view of you

1549
01:13:06,083 --> 01:13:08,791
 actually offsetting all electromagnetic

1550
01:13:08,791 --> 01:13:10,916
 frequencies, including the Schumann

1551
01:13:10,916 --> 01:13:12,958
 residence, which as you know, all too

1552
01:13:12,958 --> 01:13:14,791
 well is rather

1553
01:13:14,791 --> 01:13:16,333
 beneficial when it comes to life.

1554
01:13:17,333 --> 01:13:21,583
 So there may be some issues there, but I

1555
01:13:21,583 --> 01:13:23,041
 mean, that is a

1556
01:13:23,041 --> 01:13:24,291
 discussion for another day.

1557
01:13:24,625 --> 01:13:27,250
 The whole discussion around

1558
01:13:27,250 --> 01:13:32,916
 electromagnetic sensitivities beyond just

1559
01:13:32,916 --> 01:13:36,208
 WiFi and all these electric magnetic

1560
01:13:36,208 --> 01:13:39,208
 fields, excuse me, that are just so

1561
01:13:39,208 --> 01:13:42,958
 profoundly affect our health, both

1562
01:13:42,958 --> 01:13:44,625
 positively and negatively.

1563
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:45,541
 Excuse me.

1564
01:13:46,250 --> 01:13:47,625
 That's a very good thing

1565
01:13:47,625 --> 01:13:50,708
 with that, the Faraday issue.

1566
01:13:51,458 --> 01:13:52,500
 I hadn't thought about that.

1567
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:53,375
 It's a very good idea.

1568
01:13:54,375 --> 01:13:56,416
 Well, I'm glad I was able

1569
01:13:56,416 --> 01:13:59,333
 to be of some value today.

1570
01:14:00,750 --> 01:14:02,041
 Little brain still working.

1571
01:14:02,541 --> 01:14:03,750
 Little brain still working.

1572
01:14:04,625 --> 01:14:04,833
 Dr.

1573
01:14:05,041 --> 01:14:07,041
 Darling, I'd love to end off with just

1574
01:14:07,041 --> 01:14:08,583
 asking a few rapid fire

1575
01:14:08,583 --> 01:14:09,750
 questions, if that's okay.

1576
01:14:10,833 --> 01:14:12,958
 Okay, so your thoughts on structured

1577
01:14:12,958 --> 01:14:14,416
 walkthrough devices, are they a bit

1578
01:14:14,416 --> 01:14:16,375
 gimmicky or they have potential?

1579
01:14:17,041 --> 01:14:20,083
 I have yet to be convinced that the

1580
01:14:20,083 --> 01:14:25,041
 devices will work, but I have to say that

1581
01:14:25,041 --> 01:14:26,541
 I no longer regard it

1582
01:14:26,541 --> 01:14:28,125
 as absolutely impossible

1583
01:14:29,291 --> 01:14:30,125
 that they work.

1584
01:14:31,291 --> 01:14:33,458
 So I honestly don't know,

1585
01:14:33,458 --> 01:14:35,000
 ask me in a year or something.

1586
01:14:35,625 --> 01:14:35,833
 Yeah.

1587
01:14:36,750 --> 01:14:36,958
 Perfect.

1588
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:39,875
 From a clinical standpoint, what's the

1589
01:14:39,875 --> 01:14:42,958
 one light based therapy or tool that you

1590
01:14:42,958 --> 01:14:45,041
 use that you feel moves the needle the

1591
01:14:45,041 --> 01:14:46,416
 most for most people?

1592
01:14:47,541 --> 01:14:52,833
 Well, for me, it would be the endo light,

1593
01:14:53,458 --> 01:14:56,041
 the laser watch thing.

1594
01:14:56,958 --> 01:15:02,083
 But if you look around, the most widely

1595
01:15:02,083 --> 01:15:05,625
 used one, and presumably it hasn't be

1596
01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:08,666
 because it works, is the

1597
01:15:08,666 --> 01:15:10,916
 cosmetic infrared masks.

1598
01:15:11,916 --> 01:15:13,041
 Yeah, that's a good point.

1599
01:15:13,500 --> 01:15:15,375
 If you'd asked me that question, I would

1600
01:15:15,375 --> 01:15:16,375
 have just said bog

1601
01:15:16,375 --> 01:15:17,708
 standard red light panels.

1602
01:15:18,041 --> 01:15:19,666
 But yeah, I suppose the

1603
01:15:19,666 --> 01:15:21,958
 masks also are a good option.

1604
01:15:22,625 --> 01:15:22,833
 Yeah.

1605
01:15:23,166 --> 01:15:28,500
 But either of those are a better entry

1606
01:15:28,500 --> 01:15:32,041
 level thing than doing one of these.

1607
01:15:32,333 --> 01:15:35,750
 So if you're not spend too much, you can

1608
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:42,000
 get the small infrared light mats for, I

1609
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,791
 don't know, 60 quid these days.

1610
01:15:44,750 --> 01:15:46,833
 Yeah, no, they definitely have come down

1611
01:15:46,833 --> 01:15:48,125
 in price and they're not nearly as

1612
01:15:48,125 --> 01:15:49,833
 expensive as they previously were.

1613
01:15:50,958 --> 01:15:52,166
 Okay, two more.

1614
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:54,875
 What do you think about blue blocking

1615
01:15:54,875 --> 01:15:56,625
 glasses and their use in the evenings?

1616
01:15:57,625 --> 01:15:59,750
 Well, it's all right.

1617
01:15:59,958 --> 01:16:02,458
 But you could also use

1618
01:16:02,458 --> 01:16:07,375
 infrared light to balance it out.

1619
01:16:08,125 --> 01:16:08,500
 Yeah.

1620
01:16:09,541 --> 01:16:10,000
 This is true.

1621
01:16:10,333 --> 01:16:10,500
 Yeah.

1622
01:16:11,125 --> 01:16:11,833
 Replace all your bulb

1623
01:16:11,833 --> 01:16:14,458
 with incandescent options.

1624
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,375
 And I use one like the full spectrum

1625
01:16:17,375 --> 01:16:18,583
 light I've got up here,

1626
01:16:18,583 --> 01:16:20,541
 so I can't really show you.

1627
01:16:20,791 --> 01:16:22,291
 Just don't tell a green piece.

1628
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:23,250
 Right.

1629
01:16:24,083 --> 01:16:24,791
 Yeah, I'm afraid so.

1630
01:16:25,666 --> 01:16:25,916
 Okay.

1631
01:16:26,416 --> 01:16:29,083
 And the final one, maybe this is a

1632
01:16:29,083 --> 01:16:30,291
 complete dual topic and

1633
01:16:30,291 --> 01:16:33,041
 just something of an opinion.

1634
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:35,625
 What do you think about all this

1635
01:16:35,625 --> 01:16:36,833
 engineering that's

1636
01:16:36,833 --> 01:16:38,125
 currently going through the news?

1637
01:16:39,083 --> 01:16:40,000
 Glad you asked.

1638
01:16:40,583 --> 01:16:45,000
 I've done a submission for the ultimate

1639
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:49,250
 news service on this and with colleagues

1640
01:16:49,250 --> 01:16:55,125
 I have and also for BSCM.

1641
01:16:55,125 --> 01:16:56,583
 The best measure is this.

1642
01:16:56,583 --> 01:16:56,958
 Firstly,

1643
01:16:58,291 --> 01:17:02,333
 it's not doing the work that we

1644
01:17:02,333 --> 01:17:06,041
 absolutely have to do in reducing climate

1645
01:17:06,041 --> 01:17:08,541
 change and so forth,

1646
01:17:08,541 --> 01:17:09,791
 even turning it back.

1647
01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:16,041
 Even if it works on climate change, it's

1648
01:17:16,041 --> 01:17:21,333
 just a fix and who knows how long it

1649
01:17:21,333 --> 01:17:24,375
 will, you know, would be of any benefit

1650
01:17:24,375 --> 01:17:27,791
 to in terms of global warming.

1651
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:31,208
 Secondly, of course, there's the law of

1652
01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:32,833
 unintended consequences.

1653
01:17:33,166 --> 01:17:34,791
 You know, stuff will happen

1654
01:17:34,791 --> 01:17:37,375
 that we never thought about home.

1655
01:17:37,625 --> 01:17:39,250
 So who do you think of that?

1656
01:17:39,875 --> 01:17:41,708
 Like, I mean, the obvious example of that

1657
01:17:41,708 --> 01:17:43,666
 is microplastics going on.

1658
01:17:44,083 --> 01:17:45,708
 But most importantly, there's good

1659
01:17:45,708 --> 01:17:48,500
 evidence that sunlight

1660
01:17:48,500 --> 01:17:49,958
 is essential to health.

1661
01:17:50,708 --> 01:17:52,916
 That I mean, we've known for 100 years,

1662
01:17:53,250 --> 01:17:56,541
 at least, that the nearer the equator you

1663
01:17:56,541 --> 01:17:57,916
 are, the less your

1664
01:17:57,916 --> 01:17:59,125
 chance of getting cancer.

1665
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:02,791
 And we know that ultraviolet light

1666
01:18:02,791 --> 01:18:06,833
 exposure is basically good for you.

1667
01:18:06,833 --> 01:18:10,250
 They say that depriving yourself, living

1668
01:18:10,250 --> 01:18:14,125
 up in northern places like this,

1669
01:18:15,541 --> 01:18:17,041
 depriving yourself of

1670
01:18:17,041 --> 01:18:21,041
 sunlight is as bad as smoking

1671
01:18:23,416 --> 01:18:25,541
 for your health and your life expectancy.

1672
01:18:27,166 --> 01:18:29,458
 And so you can fix that.

1673
01:18:29,458 --> 01:18:29,958
 So it's a very bad idea.

1674
01:18:30,208 --> 01:18:31,083
 Yeah,

1675
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,250
 no, I'm glad you, that's your view.

1676
01:18:36,250 --> 01:18:37,250
 I definitely share

1677
01:18:37,250 --> 01:18:39,208
 your views there as well.

1678
01:18:40,291 --> 01:18:40,500
 Dr.

1679
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:42,166
 Downing, if people would like to work

1680
01:18:42,166 --> 01:18:44,666
 with you, or if you view your books,

1681
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:46,708
 where's the best place they can find you?

1682
01:18:47,416 --> 01:18:49,083
 Oh, well, the,

1683
01:18:50,666 --> 01:18:55,500
 I'm on land, it's drdaneandowning.com.

1684
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,458
 But the book will be out later this year,

1685
01:19:02,708 --> 01:19:03,791
 and I think it's going to

1686
01:19:03,791 --> 01:19:05,916
 be called Coherent Health,

1687
01:19:07,083 --> 01:19:09,958
 The Power of Light and Water.

1688
01:19:10,166 --> 01:19:12,250
 Just look for Coherent Health.

1689
01:19:13,083 --> 01:19:15,000
 A bit later on, you'll get that.

1690
01:19:15,416 --> 01:19:18,875
 Now, the book is about stuff that you can

1691
01:19:18,875 --> 01:19:20,000
 do for yourself and

1692
01:19:20,041 --> 01:19:21,291
 should do for yourself.

1693
01:19:22,041 --> 01:19:24,041
 I'm not trying to sell my services.

1694
01:19:24,958 --> 01:19:25,750
 Okay, that's perfect.

1695
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,208
 Well, we'll be sure to link to all of

1696
01:19:28,208 --> 01:19:29,500
 that in the show notes.

1697
01:19:30,041 --> 01:19:31,791
 And thank you so much for your time.

1698
01:19:31,791 --> 01:19:34,416
 It's been a pleasure to pick your brain

1699
01:19:34,416 --> 01:19:35,250
 and to learn a little

1700
01:19:35,250 --> 01:19:36,916
 more about light and water.

1701
01:19:37,583 --> 01:19:38,166
 Yeah, great.

1702
01:19:38,208 --> 01:19:39,333
 Thank you very much.

1703
01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:40,458
 I've enjoyed it.