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Ben Betts is the Head Coach of the Boys National High School Basketball team at Combine Academy in Lincolnton, North Carolina.

Betts has accumulated 34 years of experience as a college coach.

After beginning his coaching career at South Carolina State, Betts has been an assistant at the College of Charleston, vcu, Oklahoma, Tennessee State, ipfw, Georgia Southern, Western Carolina and Winthrop.

Additionally, he was the head coach of South Carolina State for a three year stretch from 2003 to 2006 where he directed the Bulldogs to the MEAC regular season crown in 2004.

While at Oklahoma from 2006 to 2011, he met her 2009 NBA number one overall pick Blake Griffin and helped direct the Sooners to the NCAA tournament in 2008 and 2009.

Betts was a four year basketball letter winner at Roanoke College where he helped propel the team to the NCAA Tournament.

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Be sure to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Ben Betts, head coach of the boys national high school basketball team at Combine Academy.

Hello and welcome to the Whopetz Podcast.

It's Mike Clemson here without my co host Jason Sukle tonight.

But I am pleased to be joined by Ben Betts, the head coach of the national team at Combine Academy.

Ben, welcome to the Hoopetz pod.

Mike, how you doing, man?

Thanks for having me on.

All is going well.

Excited to be on here.

So yeah, man, let's get it started.

Terrific, man.

Things are going well here.

Can't wait to have this conversation.

Looking forward to diving into all of the different things that you've been able to do in your long career.

Let's start with Combine Academy.

Maybe some people out there in the audience aren't familiar with exactly what Combine Academy is all about.

So let's start there and we'll dive a little bit into what you're doing in terms of building the program there, sustaining the success that Combines already had.

And then we'll kind of go backwards into, into the other stops that you've had along the way in your career.

But start with Combine.

Tell me a little bit about it.

Yeah, you know, Combine is a private boarding school, all boys school in Lincoln, North Carolina.

It's probably about maybe 20 minutes outside of Charlotte, just north of an area called Gastonia.

And we have a total of athletes, probably about 170, 175 athletes.

We have four sports.

We have obviously men's basketball.

We have baseball, we have golf and we have soccer and.

But the makeup obviously of all of our sports is that, you know, kids have the opportunity there, some unique opportunities as far as preparing, you know, kids for their future.

Especially, you know, you're talking about making that next step as far as going to college.

But then also, you know, it's a place in which everything, you know, for a normal student happens on campus.

And kids live on campus for most of them.

There are some commuters, but kids go to class on campus, they eat all their meals on campus.

So it's really almost like a small college setup.

I mean, to be honest with you.

But obviously from a basketball standpoint, they've had a ton of success here with basketball.

It all kind of started as kind of like a post grad program years ago.

And then it's kind of involved into the national team with the, with the high school team.

And actually the national team is kind of the baby here at combine.

And it's unique in a way, not only from a developmental standpoint where our guys have the opportunity to really get better and get prepared for college, but then also there's so many things that are just built into our guys and they're structured just daily.

And a big part of that is that, you know, from 8am till 6, 7 at night, you know, it's academics, it's basketball and it's all about the developmental piece of it.

And then, you know, we really do some unique things with our schedule.

We play some really good competition.

We are a team that's a part of the overtime elite basketball league which is based out of Atlanta.

And in the ote we're the blue checks.

But then also we play our regular national scholastic schedule with combine and you know, where the combine goats.

So it's a unique schedule.

We'll play 50 plus games and.

But it's a composite schedule where it's.

In which both schedules are kind of intertwined a little bit and.

But playing some really, really neat events.

But the OTE piece is.

It's where we play some really, really good competition and.

But then also we'll play in some neat events, some really good competition on this elastic side as well.

Tell me what made this job, this opportunity, the right one for you?

What makes it a good fit for you?

What attracted you to the job?

Well, you know, I've been familiar with combine for years actually in college, you know, with come here and recruit guys and so there was a familiarity with the program.

But then also with me being an assistant coach at Winthrop University, it was also I'm about.

And I still live in Rock Hill so I commute so it's about 45, 50 minutes away and.

But yet, you know, when the found out that the position was open at that time, you know, even guys who were recruiting the guy off the team last year but you know, started having conversations with, with ownership and, and really, you know, it was about four, maybe five zoom calls and.

But each one of those conversations it just got more intriguing because I had the opportunity to really see what it's like on a day to day basis as opposed to just being that college coach coming to watch a workout and taking off and leaving, but yet really getting a chance to see, you know, how it operated on the day to day and the infrastructure and you know, ownership is fantastic.

Where you know, really explain a lot of things of how, you know, Obviously, combine initially formulated, but then, you know, kind of the vision of where they are now.

And so for me, it was a unique opportunity.

One, and now in this day and age, especially with the game and how the game is changing and you know, there's a lot of things around it now, especially at the college level, but I felt it was an opportunity to really help youth on the front end, if that makes sense.

Because, and I've said this to every one of our guys in our program, any guys that are or considering combine, is that nowadays more than ever you have to be ready to step foot on a college campus.

But you know, having the opportunity to do that at this stage, which I thought was a unique opportunity, just to really help guys grow, develop, really have a good understanding what college is all about, but then also utilize some of my experiences to hopefully share and help them that.

But then also, you know, it's an opportunity for me to be a head coach again.

But you know, here at combine we have some really, really good players, we play a great schedule, but then what we do on the day to day and the just the whole setup and how everything's run and operated is really beneficial for the students that are here.

But then for me to be a part of it, it just seemed like a great opportunity.

Tell me what some of the things that you bring to the table with your extensive background as a college coach, what are some things that you feel like you're uniquely positioned to be able to bring to the athletes that are a part of your program in terms of what you just talked about, which is preparing them to set foot on a college campus, both as a student and also as a basketball player.

Yeah.

You know, the thing about, you know, with me and my experience is I've had.

I've been fortunate to be at a number of places at a variety of levels, but yet.

And had the opportunity to coach a variety of athletes.

But you know, a couple of.

Some of the key components which I think I can really help and is that, you know, not only, you know, obviously the basketball standpoint, you know, developing and just really getting better as a player, the mentality that you need, but then preparing them kind of for what's really ahead in the sense of like the day to day, you know, I tell our guys, you know, you got to be ready physically, mentally and now even emotionally, if that makes sense these days.

But yet, you know, with my experiences that I want to treat it like a college program, if that makes sense.

Because beyond, that's all I know.

Right.

You Know, yet still having the opportunity to operate on a day to day, like, you know, in some scale that a college program would be operating.

So that goes from, you know, not only the academic, the academic component of just helping guys understand the importance of having good balance.

You have to prioritize, you know, what you do, but then you know, the academic piece.

So unique thing about Combine is that all of our classes and the structure of our classes is extremely similar to what the setup is at a college.

Meaning like you're going to take certain classes on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, certain classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

You know, you have that opportunity to, you know, even like at Combine we have dual enrollment so kids can take honors classes, they can take AP courses, they can take dual enrollment courses which can certainly transfer with them to any institutions that they decide to attend.

But then, you know, that makeup of the academics and then you tie in, you know, we, we lift weights in the morning at 8 o'clock we have a skills class and then we do their core courses, the English, the maths, the sciences.

And then we come back and we practice from 1:15 to 2:45.

Then we go back and we lift weights as a team again, you know, at three.

And then, you know, like now we're about to get prepared for games, so now we come back and watch more film.

And then, you know, guys get back in the gym at 7:30 at night.

So our guys, they do a lot in a day, probably maybe in some cases or some instances, maybe a little bit more than what a typical college student would do in a day or college student athlete.

So, you know, having the opportunity for me to just those experiences of what we do on the day to day and how we operate.

But then, you know, when you step over into even the recruiting, okay, and now, you know, obviously a big part of what we do is prepare guys in the area as far as recruitment and you know, putting them in position to get some really neat and really good opportunities, but then also helping them along with the recruitment.

You know, it's.

For me, obviously I have a really good perspective on it in the sense that my thing is I want to help those guys, you know, once one get those opportunities, but then help them prepare for it.

But then also with the recruitment process, helping them really understand, you know, of, you know, what when a school is really serious about you and you know, some of the details of the recruitment and then how it all kind of goes along and the decision making process and just kind of things to kind of have your Antennas up about.

And so that, you know, they're able to make or, you know, at least a really, really good decision about the place they're thinking about attending and feel good about it and feel like they're a priority.

But then also know that that process has been fun for them, but then also where it's been, where they've kind of been able to get all the information they've needed to kind of get to that final decision.

Absolutely.

How has the portal affected.

Well, first, I guess we can talk about how it affected you in your last year or two as a college assistant as that comes on board, and then how you're able to utilize that knowledge to be able to help your student athletes at Combine, to be able to sort of navigate that world where as a college coach and I've heard from lots of different people in lots of different conversations that it's much tougher for high school kids than it's ever been, simply because I'm a college coach and I go into the portal and I can find somebody who is already a proven college player and also a proven college student.

Right.

Somebody who can handle being away from home and handle the classwork and all those things.

So just how do you think that the portal has affected kind of the players that you have at Combine and what their process looks like?

Yeah, it's affected them tremendously in a sense that it's made it obviously more difficult.

And I think, you know, especially if, let's say, if you are a recruitable high school student athlete and their families, I don't think still a lot of people are aware or have an understanding on how the transfer of Portland College is affecting them now and how it affects their recruitment.

And, you know, like, it's hard for probably, you know, let's just say right now, 20, 25 student athlete going through the summer, you know, thinking about the recruitment, can't quite understand why, you know, they're not getting the interest that they thought they would, or maybe not getting the level of interest that they're getting at that particular time, whereas.

Or maybe even some aren't getting the notoriety, you know, maybe after their junior year.

And all of a sudden, man, they're.

They're.

They're excited, they're ready to really jump into the spring, and it's just not where they thought it would be.

And what probably a lot of them don't understand is that, you know, this portal, you know, not only just.

It's ongoing once the portal opens, you know, for student athletes in college.

Absolutely.

And you know, now college programs, you know, some, it's just the nature of it, just have it made up in their mind that that's where they're going to recruit from.

It is what it is.

And you know, their recruitment is going to be largely involved with just going in that reporter and recruiting student athletes.

Well, like twofold, like let's say now we have a 20, 25.

It's just, it's, it's the fall you, you ought to be thinking about an early signing period and now you don't have maybe the offers that you thought you would.

And now for someone who hasn't had a really good feel about what this portal is about and how it operates, you know, I think a lot of times they're not prepared even one or two years earlier, if that makes sense, because they just kind of think, okay, it's going to move along and when I become that senior, I'm gonna be fine.

Right.

Get the interest where you have to now really be.

If you are a 26, if you are 20, 27, you have to really be doing all the things to prepare yourself, you know, as you move along for that recruitment process and knowing that, you know, colleges, it's, they're going to look at the student athletes in the portal first.

Just the nature of it.

Now don't get me wrong, some of the higher level athletes, you know, you're going to still get recruited, but then, you know, whereas like even the fall and you got to kind of have an understanding about it if you're a parent or student athlete like now it's probably the biggest window, the fall for the early signing period is probably the biggest window for a high school student athlete to get an offer and sign.

Yep.

When it gets to the spring, you know, don't get me wrong, doesn't mean that you still can't, you know, get that opportunity.

But it, it really might not be what you felt it was going to be or maybe the school of your, not necessarily your choice, but it just, it's going to look different.

Absolutely.

And so the just trying to educate them on that.

And now you have to be, I think, even smart about where you decide to go and know that too.

You gotta be open to all avenues and all opportunities.

And I think that's very, very important.

And I think that what happens a lot is that I'm just using this for an example that kids get so set on.

Oh, I've got to go D1.

I got to go D1.

I got to go D1.

It's okay, nowadays to go Division 2, I'm just being honest because what happens, you know, you go to a place and you're able to just step into a program and play.

And sometimes college coaches use that term, a body of work.

And I'm not saying you have to make that decision.

And knowing that you want to transfer, by no means, but having the opportunity to get on the floor and play and make a significant impact where you are, you know, yes.

That can still create these different paths nowadays to get to where you want to go.

So that doesn't mean that's a bad decision or a tough decision or unwanted decision.

You have to go to Division 2 or maybe go to a school that might not be the level that you thought it was going to be.

But in the day, like nowadays, you have to be ready when you go in as a freshman.

Let's say if you do go division one, anyone, anywhere that you go, you better be ready.

Because now here's where the transfer portal can also affect you in a negative way where all of a sudden it's not going well and you're not prepared and well, you know what?

Now you might, you might.

I'm just being honest.

You might get forced into that portal because you weren't prepared or didn't take the proper steps to really get ready, have the right mentality as far as stepping foot on the college campus and understand what it's about.

Because now there's so much other things, so many other things around it, you know, the nil space and all that stuff.

So, you know, it's just trying to educate and give them as much information and just being very ambient, sometimes brutally honest.

And that's where now you have to be.

Because if you don't, you know, you could really kind of be facing some disappointment, but then also, you know, just kind of man be put into a space where, you know, you don't want to be stubborn and say, well, no, I don't want to do that.

And you just have to have a different mindset and be open minded about it.

Yeah, I think the big thing there is, right, you're able to provide a firsthand view of what that looks like and as you said, to be able to have those brutally honest conversations and be able to tell a player, hey, this is the level that you're at, or this is where your offers are coming from, or this is what you need to think about.

And too often I know you know it better, probably better than anybody, that a lot of times kids don't always have People telling them the truth.

There's.

There's a lot of people that are.

Are selling them a false bill of goods, for lack of a better way of saying it.

Plus, you go on social media and you're seeing this and that, and this person's going here and this offer, and people are posting all kinds of stuff, and kids start seeing that, it starts weighing down on their mind.

And there's just so much.

There's a lot of good information out there, don't get me wrong.

But there's also, as you well know, there's a lot of misinformation out there that sometimes can.

Can cause a kid to make, you know, make a decision that maybe they otherwise wouldn't.

And I think you.

You made a great point about.

It's really about trying to find the right fit for you as just an athlete, but also as a student.

Right.

You want to end up in a place where you can.

You can reach your dream, whatever that dream involves.

Obviously, for a lot of the kids that are going to play college basketball, that involves being the best basketball player that they can be.

But it also, for a lot of people involved being the best student they can be and getting that degree and all those pieces and the experience, obviously, that you bring to the table, I'm sure is invaluable and is going to continue to be invaluable for the kids that you coach.

So to kind of go along with that as you've headed into this season, and this is one of the things that I always think is an interesting question, is at a place like Combine, where you have kids who are coming into your program who obviously those kids to want to attend an institution like Combine.

They have goals as an individual player.

Right.

They want to get to college.

They want to maximize their individual success.

And yet your job as the head coach is, yes, to help them individually, but also to put together a cohesive team and to win games.

So how do you, as a head coach, how have you tried to approach that mixing of helping the players to excel individually and help them grow and improve while also building a cohesive team culture that's going to allow you guys to have fun, have success as a group and win games?

Yeah, you know, that's.

That's.

That's a really, really good question and a really good topic, Mike, because, you know, you said it, you know, each one of our guys, you know, chose combine for a particular reason in the sense of.

You're right, twofold.

They look at it and see this as a place where individually they can work and really get better with their game and yet really get to a certain space or a certain place individually.

But then you're right.

Then that whole piece too of obviously they want to win and you know, we want to play together as a team.

Each guy has come from his own situation in a way that he may have been the main guy like a lot of places, you know, and kind of been, you know, the guy in school or.

But now you're in a place in which like you hear about in college where everybody was a guy.

You know, when you come down to combine, you know, one of the things that I really tried to stress to our guys, one, don't take this opportunity for granted individually.

So, you know, individually you have to really come in with a certain focus academically and basketball wise, all the resources are here at combine.

It's about individually what you pull from it and what you put into it.

And so, you know, that's an area that, you know, in a way you have to, you should be selfish.

Okay.

You should really take advantage of all those opportunities, all the resources that we have.

But then now we flipped the page to our team and now it's really about our team.

It's about what we need to do as a team to win.

It's about sacrificing some of your maybe individual accolades and then also maybe sometimes some of your, even your performance area as far as man, really pouring into the team.

And that is, you know, it's, it's.

It's got to have a good balance.

And so that is something, you know, individually, you know, we have conversations with guys and even their families and then, you know, creating that culture in which, you know, guys want to and have to buy into the team because, you know, we're going to play 50 plus games.

So you know, also.

But it's important too now that like all of our guys individually, a good place.

But now, you know, you have to be able to fit inform into those team concepts where, you know, we have to play together, we have to share the ball.

You may have to turn down some shots that you've been typically taking in the past or you may have to play a little bit different role.

But you know, that part is something that each and every day that we have to kind of keep in mind.

You know, still at the end of the day now it's, it's about the team and us playing together as a team in your role.

And.

But then also, you know, we.

The thing that's.

You're not.

Yeah, it is unique because in practice we have, we.

We have a really good roster.

We have good players.

Those guys are going against each other every day.

They're getting better.

They're benefiting from that.

Not only just the, The.

The actual work, the, the weightlifting twice a day, the individual work and the skills class and even with the coaches.

And now, you know, we're going to go as a team and play outside of combine and playing a really, really good league as far as ote.

So now, you know, the unity and us playing together has to be there.

It has to.

And so there's, There's.

I'll be honest, there's challenges to that.

Just as, you know, you have a 13 now, it's 15 guys and next year they'll be on scholarship on a college campus.

So that mindset for me that I've had, same thing in college, you know, that same mindset is here at combine.

And so, you know, there's conversations.

But then also, once again, we take our guys on.

We do a lot of team bond and stuff.

We'll do more and just, you know, work on those areas in which once again, guys understand that now, you know, they're.

They're a part of something that.

That's bigger than them as it relates to our team and just being there at combine.

Do you feel like the relationship building that you've done thus far at combine with your kids is similar to the way you built relationships during your time in college?

Or is there something that is slightly different about it because you're dealing with a different age kid and maybe different goals going into it?

Just how do you think, how do you approach that relationship building with.

With your kids now at combine compared to maybe how you approached it at the college level?

Yeah, you know, and that's where you know, of getting our guys to understand like even now.

And here's where it's a little bit different in a sense because at the end of the day, they're still high school kids.

Right.

So got to get them.

I want them to enjoy the experience, but then have to kind of get them to understand it is.

It's a business a little bit now at an earlier age, especially at a place like combine and.

But yet, you know, spending time with them, you know, I've been one to always not just try to communicate with that guys just about basketball or just about academics, just try to build those relationships on some different things.

Just man interaction and having conversations in which my guys hopefully feel comfortable in knowing that they can just come and talk to me.

About anything.

I think that's important because even now, one of the things I want to make sure that their mental wellbeing is really good.

I want them to have a positive experience and I want them to feel good about everything.

Not just about academics, not just about basketball, but about their experience.

And so, you know, that part is probably kind of a little bit of my approach that, you know, I understand.

I'm going to treat them and communicate with them as people first as young men, but then also, you know, talk to them about other areas.

But at the end of the day, it's about building those relationships just simply on some of the small things.

Communication, trust, you know, accountability, instilling in those areas which are very important things.

But like I said earlier, I still have to remember that they're high school kids, right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

Put on the college campus, you know, freshman.

But you.

What's kind of unique too here about combine, you know, this group, and here's where it's kind of similar now in college, this group I'm only gonna have for one year, probably.

Yep, yep.

So now, you know, it's, gosh, you know, in a year's time, you trying to, you know, and maybe not even a year, whereas, you know, a lot of things, a lot of things have to come together and take place in that short period of time.

You know, when you talk about summer to April, May or so.

Yeah.

Talk to me about the basketball planning process that you went through in terms of how you want to play.

What's the progression for teaching the various things that you have to get in in order to prepare to play a 50 game schedule.

And again, as you said, where you don't have a bunch of returning guys that can kind of guide the newcomers to be like, okay, here's, here's 17 drills that coach likes to do and we know these.

And you got half your team that already doesn't have to be taught that or you, you've just got the way that your practice flows.

And when you have all guys that are coming in new, obviously that becomes more of a challenge.

Just tell me a little bit about sort of the basketball planning process that you went through to kind of prepare for preseason practice and then kind of get into.

When you eventually get into the meat of your schedule and start playing games, what's that process look like in terms of planning for you?

Yeah, you know, it's, it's with our roster, you know, it's kind of went through the spring, summer, but you know, once we got to campus in August, it's been, you know, looking at our roster, kind of figuring out, you know, once again, strengths, weaknesses of our guys, but then also, you know, look at two at depth, but, you know, really having a lot of thought process early on about, you know, kind of once again, the mentality, like you said, about how we want to play, style of play.

And you know, some of those things goes back to, you know, thoughts, ideas that I've had in college, even when I was a head coach.

And some of those things, as far as the planning and the prep work, as far as how we're going to go about our day to day, how we're going to go about our practice, how we're going to go about our workouts, our skill work, you know, just really trying to get guys better.

Some of the basic stuff, yes, we have some talented guys, but, you know, still so much of, once again, these guys are coming and they've kind of, not necessarily you have to reprogram them, but yet still work on some of the basic stuff.

I mean, still for even really good players, it comes down to dribble, passing, the shooting, I mean, just some of the basic stuff and being able to do those things at a really good level.

But then, you know, once again that you take personnel and just really kind of look at how you can put them in a position to be productive and looking at their strengths and really kind of hone in on those strings and.

But yet figure out some things too, like each individual guy, just one or two things that, you know, they need to get better at.

Because, you know, like now we've had like our guys got here in August and you know, we probably let them get settled with classes.

We did some workouts and stuff, but you know, we got going with practice.

And the thing about, you know, here, combine and like, you know, you have other things that are going on, so you have to be able to adapt.

For example, you know, you may go into a week of practice and obviously, I don't know ahead of time, but then come Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you know, you have three guys on visits.

So now my week goes from Monday to Thursday.

So now guys who, you know, look at how we want to practice, how we're going to, you know, so your plan and changes because things like that do pop up.

But you know, also, you know, I have to take into account really like combine.

I have to take into account that, like, you know, when it hits the fall lab period and coaches can come to the gym, well, how to kind of account for that in some ways because, you know, once again, the makeup of the practice and giving our guys the best opportunity for coaches to see them.

And you know, when coaches come to the gym, yeah, they, they don't mind seeing a few drill work, a few things of drills and that kind of thing.

But, you know, they want to see guys in live action.

So, you know, just making sure that those segments are in place when we know there's going to be a heavy load or consistent load of coaches coming by to see guys.

And so, you know that part.

And then after, you know, some of that settles down, you're really getting ready to get prepared to play games.

And that's where, you know, even that combine, you know, we have, you know, we go from one one o'clock roughly, maybe guys have classes up to maybe one, but sometimes we will start maybe around 1:15 and we go to about 2:45 then.

So now you really got to maximize that, that amount of time.

And sometimes it may mean, you know, shortening some areas or maybe not doing certain things to make sure that you get X, Y and Z in.

But then it comes down to, once again, some of those basic things to try to make sure our guys are doing a pretty good job at it and then continue to build on it and, you know, get them, you know, like right now.

And we're going to open up on Friday, play two games.

But we are probably nowhere near as far as having all the things in as we need to, which that's kind of the case for a lot of teams this time of year.

Right?

That's the way.

That's the way it goes.

All right, so that's kind of the overarching plan of kind of how you prepare and get ready and look at your roster and figure out what you're going to do.

What about day to Day?

You're planning a practice for tomorrow.

What's the process look like for you sitting down?

Are you at the computer?

Are you a pen and paper guy?

Are you looking at the previous days practice footage?

Just day to day.

How do you plan a practice?

What does that look like?

Where are you sitting when you're doing it?

Is there anybody else with you?

Are you planning yourself before you share it with assistants?

Just what's the process you go through?

Yeah, so, you know, I'll get in the office.

Like, you know, obviously this is a game prep week.

So obviously before I left the office, just jotted down some things I knew we had to get in that we may not have gotten in today or may not have covered that well, or maybe just need some more work at.

I'll jot down those things.

I'll continue to watch our game prep film of our opponent.

Um, but then when I get in the morning, in the morning, it's about building that practice for my warmup to what we doing and I break down as far as our skill work to make sure that what we're doing is applying is stuff that's going to be once again a part of our game prep the things, a couple of keys, whether it's on offense or on defense.

But then, you know, even tomorrow it's going to be a little bit different because now we're going to be one day out.

So now I want to shorten some of our segments and so there's a priority as far as what we're going to do, the amount of time we're going to spend on it.

I know there's a certain amount of time that I, I want to have.

I want to have a cutoff point that, okay, this is where we're going to end it and there's going to probably be two maybe live segments.

Then you know, we're going to walk through some things.

There will be some other stuff like the drill, the ball handling and the shooting and stuff like that that's going to be good for our guys individually.

But then I really wanted to kind of really put a lot of focus on what we're going to be doing as far as offensive execution and then how we're going to be defending some things as it relates to our defense and then any kind of special situations which we'll talk about like our press offense and even our press defense and we may touch on a little bit of out of bounds.

Those would be some things that we probably wouldn't do as much of on a regular day, especially under out of bounds or even working on our press offense.

But you know, we know at least some things that, you know, we just got to make sure, maybe even get a quick, a quick late game situation in just so you know, we prepared anything may or may rise in the game that we need to be prepared for.

Just so obviously we may not work on it for 20 minute segment, but you know, as far as the day before, we can't do everything.

But at least we can touch on some of the things that are going to be key components as far as our game and make sure that we kind of get our guys prepared for it.

And then we'll probably just have a little short brief walkthrough on our Opponent and then we'll wrap it up and probably do a short film session.

How do you anticipate using film with your guys during the season once things get going?

Yeah, you know, the film piece, we're going to use that quite a bit.

And even the last few days this week, we've been able to dive into some film and watch some film, and we'll utilize that a lot.

I mean, we have our synergy accounts and stuff like that, so, you know, we'll be touching on it.

I'm not one to go with long, lengthy film sessions, but yet be able to kind of put together some edits and clips for our points to be focused on and try not to give our guys too much.

At the end of the day, I still have to remember, once again, they're the high school guys and, you know, man, sometimes they just want to get out of there and go get on the video game, but I have to just make sure that, you know, there's a couple of things that, once again, that can be reminders for them and things that would kind of stick with them in that mind trying to throw too much at them.

Just give them a couple things to think about.

More team stuff versus individual stuff or just how do you balance those two out?

Yeah, yeah, definitely more team stuff.

Definitely more team stuff.

And, you know, whether it's, you know, just some things that, once again, key points, you know, like it may be from our last scrimmage, just some things about us defensively or even offensively, but definitely, certainly more team stuff.

And then, you know, we'll, as we now kind of get into, you know, games and now more of our season, we'll even bring guys in individually for some.

Some quick sessions, you know, on both sides of the ball and do it from that standpoint as well.

And even sometimes, maybe even position groups.

Got it.

Makes sense.

And I think, again, the use of film, like you said, there's a.

There's a fine line right there.

Right.

Because, I mean, we all know what a good teaching tool film is.

And yet at the same time, I think you make a great point, especially when you start talking about with high school players, the attention span may not always be as long as we as coaches would.

Would like it to be.

And so you have to make sure.

You have to make sure that you give them the appropriate length of whatever it is that you're trying to do, or else you're going to lose all the effectiveness that you.

All the time you put in preparing that film is going to go out the window, if it's too long and you're not getting out of it, what you, you know, what you hoped that they would have.

So I, I completely can relate and understand that.

The nice thing is, is I always joke because again, as an old guy.

Yeah.

I think back to when I was playing and watching film and college when in the late 80s, early 90s and you got the VCR and coaches clicking the button and it's going three minutes past the thing he wanted to review too, and you're watching.

It's just as it's such a brutal process back in the day versus how simple it is today to be able to.

With the systems that you have and to be able to watch film.

You can be so much more efficient with your use of film.

And I think that's a huge thing that if you look at the advancements in coaching, I think just the advancement in technology and the ability to use film is, is huge in terms of coaching knowledge, that the, the, the, the knowledge of the game in the coaching profession has grown tremendously because of the ease of use of film.

Without question.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's the thing too.

Like, you know, now you can do.

You can send stuff to guys to their phone.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah.

They can watch as much as they want.

Right.

I mean, that's the thing, is it's all there for them.

Anybody who wants to watch more, it's always available, which is not.

Right, right.

Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

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Learn more@gc.com hoop heads that's gc.com heads all right, let's work backwards now.

Let's go back to when you were a kid.

Tell me about your first experiences with the game of basketball.

We're going to kind of work our way back up to up the combine.

But just what do you remember about your first experience with the game?

What made you fall in love with it?

Yeah.

So growing up back home, back in the day, you may, Mike, you may have had a Couple of these experiences.

Well, you know, we.

We had a dirt court back there in the backyard.

You know, we.

We made our own goal.

We bought the rim, made the whole ship, so.

But my dad made mine with a wooden pole and cut the.

Cut the fan backboard out of a piece of plywood.

So.

Right there with you.

There you go.

Right there with you.

Right there with you.

Right.

So my dad was big into, like, woodworking, so he built the backboard.

And we just.

Man, we built that thing and just.

Just, you know, just once again with our own.

That's what we did.

And.

But we would play in the backyard every day.

Every day.

And I had cousins and stuff.

We'll play and, man, we'll get all dusty and dirty and go in the house before dinner, and then, you know, mom, dad yelling at you, man, don't come in the house with those dirty shoes on.

All that kind of good stuff.

But, you know, it was about just.

You just played.

You just played, and you played with anybody that came by the house or your friends or whatever.

So I can remember I was 8 years old, and my dad took me to register for the sandlot team, which was.

The little county that I was in was junior high.

And I remember him taking me and getting registered, and that's how it all kind of started.

And it was just playing from there and had a lot of fun.

And, you know, back then, you know, you knew everybody in the neighborhood.

And my coach lived up the road from me, and his name was Reverend Harris, and he would come pick me up and take me to the games every Saturday morning.

And we played right there at the junior high school.

And so that's where I really got a strong interest as far as playing and having fun with it.

And played in junior high school and got in high school and played.

And, you know, obviously, as you move up higher and higher, you get a little more serious about it.

And then had the opportunity to go to college.

Played at a small college called Roanoke College, and had a great experience there.

Some great coaches.

Ed Green, Paige Moyer, you know, and that's where probably, you know the whole thing about coaching, especially after my senior year in college, I was going to take a job, come back to my high school and teach and coach.

And I really got interested in the coaching thing, and that's kind of how I got started my college.

My college coach at the time, Paige Moyer, knew the coaches at South Carolina State, and that's how I started as a graduate assistant.

But you didn't.

You weren't Thinking coaching as a high school player at all or when you went to college, what were you thinking about as a career wise or were you just a clueless 18 year old like the rest of us?

You know, I was always into education.

My mom was a school teacher.

There was always been a strong emphasis in your academics and going to school and getting your education and that was important.

So, you know, I think probably the piece especially, you know, as I got to probably maybe my junior and senior and in college I felt at the time that I was going to go teach school.

Yeah, okay.

And then probably, yeah, get into coaching and.

But the whole college thing, I had another buddy of mine who was two years ahead of me.

He did a graduate assistant ship and he was got on a position at Maryland.

And so I really, you know, I went to some camps and stuff and there and just, I got really enamored about the whole coaching thing.

And at that time, one of the main ways or at that time to get into college coaching was go be a graduate assistant.

And so I remember like, you know, after my senior year, my college coach at the time, as I mentioned, Paige Moyer, we jumped in the car and we went to my first final four.

And it was a big thing then to man the whole facade.

You go to the final four, you go to the host hotel, you work in the lobby, you see who you can meet, you get the name, get the information, you get back home, you write them notes.

And that was those guys.

I, they didn't know who I was.

Just sending notes back to everybody.

Kids today don't know how easy they have it.

Just, just firing off a bunch of emails.

It's, I mean, it's crazy.

I think back to, so I graduated in 92.

Okay.

And when I grab, when I graduated, I really thought that what I wanted to do.

And so what's interesting about hearing you say kind of when you started thinking about coaching.

So when I was playing, I never once ever thought about being a coach.

Honestly, like never crossed my mind.

No, not even for a second.

Like I was just a player.

Like it never crossed my mind.

And then I graduated and it's kind of like, you know, I don't know, like I, you know, I think my playing career is over.

I'm probably not going to get an opportunity to go, go play anywhere.

And now how do I stay involved in the game?

And so the year that I came out is the year the NCAA cut back from two gas to one.

And so, so I sent out like, I remember my, my roommate, my College roommate had a dot matrix printer and like an old like Tandy Radio Shack computer, you know, with the green letters that you could, you know, so, so like I'm typing out these letters to every coach.

I probably sent like 180 letters out just on this dot matrix printer and trying to find the addresses and all this stuff.

And so I sent all those out and basically everybody came back to me with, hey, we'd love to have you, but we're going from two gas to one.

And everybody had them staggered at that time.

So, you know, so you'd have a guy for two years.

And so they were kind of offset.

And so basically there was no, there was no openings.

And so I didn't get anything.

And then I went home and I kind of worked around.

I remember I went and I was looking around to try to get a job, like a real job.

And I had this interview and just like, your mom was a school teacher?

My mom was a school teacher.

My dad was a college professor.

And so I had never seen anybody work in the summertime.

And so I go to these job interviews and I had a.

I had an interview with Nestle, like the big food corporation.

I don't even remember what the job was now.

And I just remember I went to the interview and then they called me back for a second interview and they're like, well, we think we want to hire you and you're going to start.

This was probably in, I don't know, like late May, early June.

They're like, we want you to start on the 1st of July.

And at first I went home, like, great, you know, I got this job, you know, I go home, I tell my mom and dad, I'm like, you know, they're going to hire me, whatever.

And then like, I went to bed that night, I started thinking about, I'm like, they want me to put on a suit in July and go to work.

Like, I've never seen anybody work in July.

Like, it's just, I've never seen anybody do that.

I don't know that I want to do that.

And so then I ended up going back to school and getting my teaching certificate and just going the high school coaching route.

But I just think about, again, had the NCAA not made that ruling on the gas, like, I probably would have ended up, ended up getting a GA job and gone that route.

And my life would have been, you know, who knows what path I would have been on.

But it's just interesting again how different people come to coaching when some people are Drawn plays up on a Napkin when they're 8 years old and they know they're going to be a coach even while they're playing.

And then there's other people like me who.

I never even thought about it for one second while I was playing.

And all of a sudden my career's over.

I'm like, well, now I gotta figure out a way to stay involved in basketball.

So let me see what I can do to try to get a basketball job.

So it's just, it's interesting how we all come to those positions.

Yeah.

And you're so right.

Like the past, now, even this.

It's a lot different to get into college coaching.

And that is.

There's just different avenues to go about it and.

But, you know, it's.

The game has changed, the profession has changed, but still, in a lot of ways, it's still the same.

A lot of it is about networking and.

Yeah.

You know, and all that good stuff and.

But it's.

It's been, it's been.

It's been.

It's been really good for me.

I've enjoyed it.

It's been a lot of fun, met a lot of people.

That's the thing how, you know, just even in basketball, how so much it just goes full circle.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Yeah, it really is.

Tell me about that first job search.

When you graduated from college.

What do you remember about trying to find that first job and just the people that helped you to get there And.

And then when you got that first experience coaching, obviously you thought, hey, this is what something that I want to do.

But thinking back to that, did, you know immediately, like, once you got that job, you were like, man, this is.

I know, I know I'm in the right place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, that process was obviously getting the feel and just trying to reach out to many.

To as many schools and coaches or anybody that my, you know, college coach knew and my assistant at the time, who was my assistant coach, and just really trying to, you know, just really basically just get your name in front of some, some, Some head coaches.

Did a lot of camps, working basketball camps, and just trying to network and meet as many people as I possibly could.

You know, the thing that was also unique to me with the graduate assistantship is that, you know, obviously getting into college coaching, but also it was important to me at that time to get started with my graduate degree.

But now, you know, I didn't complete my graduate degree because, you know, you get into coaching and, you know, you think, well, you're Going to have all this time and, you know, so much of your time as a ga, you might as well.

Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah.

I was going to grad school and.

But, you know, getting, once I got into it, it was, it was fun.

But also I got a real, real idea about, hey, uh, this thing's gonna take, it's gonna take up a lot of your time.

Yep.

It just does.

And so you're not gonna have the typical, you know, evenings you come home, relax and get a chance to unwind for the next day.

It just doesn't go that way.

Uh, you know, and certainly college coaching a lot still a lot of what you do is even when you get home, when you're not on campus or when you're not at the office.

So that was just, you know, not necessarily an adjustment, but, you know, it's, it's just, you have to understand that it's gonna, it's gonna take a lot of your time.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

There's no doubt that in order for you to be able to be successful.

Right.

I've talked to so many coaches, Ben, on here, just about doing the best possible job that you can in the job that you're in and how important that is.

And so many, so often I think that people outside of coaching or people who are young, maybe they're players, maybe they're a manager at the college level, somebody who's just trying to get into coaching.

You know, so often there's this aspirational thing of like what you see on tv, right?

Like, you see all the big, not big time coaches and you see that, hey, they're, they're making all this money and this, and this is what people that, who are not in the profession or aren't familiar with the profession think that all that stuff happens automatically.

And you and I both know that the amount of time that you have to pay in terms of just putting that time in, doing the work that you're supposed to be doing and going above and beyond what your coaching staff needs you to do.

Like, that's what propels you in your career is doing a great job in the moment where you're at.

And I think it's, there's a, there's a tremendous lesson there for, for young coaches.

Right.

That it's not, it's not, as you said, it's not a 9 to 5 job.

It's not like, okay, I just, I turn it off, I leave the office and, and I go home.

Like coaching, as we all know, is, is nothing like that.

And Again, especially as a young coach, you gotta put the.

You got to be willing to put the time in.

You got to be willing to.

To work for little to no, right?

Little to little.

Little to no money and be willing to move right.

And I think those are probably, if I had any lessons to.

To teach from what I've learned through the course of the podcast.

I think those are some of the biggest ones that as a.

As a young assistant coach at the college level, and I don't care what, whether you're Division 1, 2, 3, NAI, wherever you're at, those are, I think, the lessons that, that I've learned from talking to people on the podcast, that if you're a young coach and you want to excel in the profession, those are some of the keys to moving your career forward.

I don't know if those have been your experience as well.

Yeah, yeah, no, you're right.

I think, you know, definitely you hit right on some really, really key points.

And just, man, being someone who's not afraid of hard work, I was fortunate.

I was able to work for a coach that gave me a lot of responsibilities.

And so I got a chance to learn a lot about the profession, not only just from basketball, but, you know, I had a chance to work on scheduling, budget, team travel, all those things.

And that really helped me, especially moving forward, and that helped a lot.

And then just understanding, too, about just being loyal, being someone that you can trust, being someone that, you know, that's going to be dependable and yet, you know, still to someone that's going to be, you know, not necessarily a role model, but, you know, lead by a good example and have good character and those things and.

Because I think those are the things you said.

Right on.

Especially if you want to, or you're thinking about advancing and moving forward in this profession, you know, you've got to have those things in place and, you know, not just.

And being able to do a variety of things.

Um, you know, like, some guys just get so excited and it's great.

The recruiting is a big part of it, but nowadays, you know, even staffs now, you know, just different areas of being able to, you know, to play a development piece, being able to really connect and have good relationships with the guys and.

But then also position, skill, work, and being, you know, eager to get in the gym with guys, but then also being able to work in an environment that, you know, you're going to have to be inclusive with other people, especially on a college campus, like a director of basketball operations and, you know, all those positions nowadays, there's so many.

I mean, gosh, you can kind of, man, just kind of jump on the staff and move around a little bit and.

Right, Exactly.

Yep.

You could have a whole bunch of different job titles.

Right?

That's right.

That's right.

So, you know, those things are, you know, like you said, it's really vitally important when you're talking about really trying to extend your career in coaching in.

Your experience, and you've been on a lot of different staffs with a lot of different coaches.

What makes up a good staff?

And I'm not necessarily talking about the basketball acumen of the staff, but when you have a group, just like, you know, when you have a team that's cohesive, that's together, what are some things that on the staffs that you've worked for that everybody's been on the same page, you're all pulling the, you know, rowing the boat in the same direction.

What are the characteristics of a staff that works well together in your experiences?

Yeah, I think, you know, definitely being on the staff in which, you know, especially as an assistant, you know, you got to put your ego aside.

I mean, you got to.

Once again, it's kind of a little bit like the player we talked about, of man being able to, you know, once again, you have to really be bought in and working with guys and then trusting in each other.

I think, like, even nowadays, it's important that you all get along and have good camaraderie, away from the office, away from the gym where, you know, your coaches, you enjoy this man being with each other.

Because I think at the end of the day, as an assistant coach and even as a head coach, your staff has to be.

Has to be on the same page and has to be echoing the same thing and has to be ready to pour into the team.

It can't be about, you know, one particular coach.

If you're an assistant, you certainly have to have a good understanding and make sure that you're relaying that message or that mentality with your head coach.

And.

But then also, if you're the head coach, you have to also make sure that, you know, once again, that you getting everybody included in their own way, but then also making sure that you, you know, have an environment that that man, your coaches will just come in and work their behinds off for you each and every day.

And I think that's like, you know, some of the same things that you're trying to implement in your team, you have to implement those things.

And in Your staff, because they have to be able to have an incredible, you know, work environment together and but yet, you know, have battles too, because even as on those staffs, you all have your own roles.

So you know, you have to accept your role, you have to work and certainly do your role at the highest level.

But then I think it's important to nowadays, nowadays even more you have to have a staff and that's everybody.

To be able to pour into those guys.

You have to.

Because now, you know, you talk about, let's use an example like the transfer portal.

A lot of this is just being able to recruit the guys that you have to make sure that they're in a good space and that they want to stay and they feel good about staying and feel good about where they're at and then you know, once again helping their well being, helping them in that, in every facet of their lives, whether it's basketball, academics, mentally, all those things are very, very important when you're out of staff.

In your experience, do you.

Did you like better when you had a defined role and maybe I don't know if this question is going to make sense to you, but a defined role where let's say like okay, Ben, you're in charge of our defense or you're in charge of our special situations, or did you prefer to kind of have your hand, and I'm talking about again on the practice floor, your hand in where every coach is kind of coaching everything, for lack of a better way of saying it.

So I guess a defined role versus I'm sort of overseeing the whole thing.

Obviously as a head coach, you're the CEO, you're overseeing everything.

But as an assistant, how did you feel about just again, having a defined role versus it being maybe less defined and kind of putting your hand in a lot of different areas?

If that question makes sense.

Yeah, you know, I like probably more just maybe that defined role because I think that helped.

Not that I couldn't do other things, but that helped me to really focus on what I needed to focus on.

But then also it helped me to focus on what I needed to deliver to the players.

So that, you know, and that's where I think when guys understand that and can accept that, then that's where I think it's a direction or directive to the players that they know, okay, where they're not hearing 10 different things, they may be hearing five different things from one person and that can be where their focal point can be.

But also I think that helps the coaches too as well.

Because I think when you started getting into this, that, that and that I got this, then all of a sudden I think that's where.

Now it can be a breakdown in the message that's going to the players.

But then also I can think it could be a breakdown as far as what's really getting done amongst the staff, if that makes sense.

Well, it does, absolutely.

So I, I think that part, being able to have those certain areas that you can focus on doesn't mean that you're not.

That you're not good enough in other areas, but.

Right.

For sure.

It just means, okay, you need to be.

That's your area and that's where you need to really be really good at it.

And making sure that.

Because I think it still, at the end of the day, it all, man, how we're getting it to the players and you know, to making sure that their messages are clear so they can.

There's no confusion.

That takes out the, you know, the breakdown where once again, something just didn't get communicated to them.

Right.

Or, you know, they don't know who to go to for answers sometimes.

Right, right.

Little game of telephone there.

Right.

All right, let me ask you this.

So when you were the head coach at South Carolina State, it kind of goes along with the same topic of conversation.

Was it easy or hard for you to delegate as a first time head coach?

Because I think one of the things that I always find to be interesting is we'll talk to coaches and a lot of them will say, you know, my.

Either my first job or my first couple years in the job, I kind of felt like I had to be in everything.

I wanted to be a part of this and this and this and this and this.

And then as time goes on and I feel more comfortable or maybe I'm my second head coaching stand or whatever it might be that I realized that as I released some of those things to my assistants, who obviously I've hired because of their expertise and what they bring to the table, that it made me a better coach and it made my program stronger.

So when you think back to your time as a first time head coach at South Carolina State, just how was that delegation piece for you?

Did you find it easy?

Hard?

Just how'd you go about that, thinking about how you worked with your staff?

Yeah, you know, I think probably the area of that, probably early on I did a lot of just wanting to or just laying out the system.

So I did a lot of that.

But also at the time, you know, I was a first time Head coach and had a new staff that was new to them.

So for me, I did a good amount of things, but yet there were areas I knew the importance of being able to delegate.

And the reason, one of the reasons that I felt like it was easy for me is because I always worked for coaches that handed me stuff, delegated things to me, and sometimes it was a lot of things.

Once again, having those opportunities to do a lot of things I felt helped me.

But then also, as when I became a head coach.

Okay, I know certain things.

Okay, Yes.

I have to delegate that to my assistants and, you know, and then have the communication there to make sure that things are getting done.

So that part.

But when it came to probably just me wanting to lay out the basketball piece of how I wanted things done, how I wanted workouts to go those first maybe month, I did a lot of that, you know, myself.

But then eventually, yeah, once I got a feel and got to know my coaches in areas and stuff like that.

Yeah, absolutely.

In practice and stuff like that, man, I handed stuff off and let them take it.

And so that part, I know early on, so like I said, was probably, I was probably maybe a little more hands on than maybe typically that would have been.

But then once I got going, it was definitely, I was very comfortable and delegating those things.

Yeah, it makes sense.

I mean, I think again, when you step into that job for the first time, you kind of look around, you're like, man, there's, there's a lot, There's a lot.

There's a lot to this job.

Right?

So when you think about the overview of, of your career, what's something that is a non basketball requirement for a coach.

So I'm thinking of an administrative something that's not directly basketball impact, something that you like to do and maybe something that you, that you didn't like to do as much on the administrative side of it from, from a coaching perspective.

And you could think about your time as a head coach or just as an assistant, something administratively that you like to do and maybe something you're like, yeah, if somebody else could take that off my plate, that would be that, that'd be great.

Yeah.

You know, I tell you what, at the time when we got into coaching, one of the things you had to do it and was film exchange.

All right, so like at the time, you know, the graduates is not drive.

Drive to the, drive to the FedEx, drive to the FedEx box and meet somebody at some clandestine location.

Oh, my God, I'll meet you at McDonald's and drop the tape.

That was worse.

Film exchange was worse.

You know, now it's just a matter of sharing stuff, uploading.

You can sit your desk and do everything and everything's good, for sure.

Film exchange Peaks was probably because you had to get filmed.

You had to.

And you know, but yes, you had to sometimes, obviously call two or three guys just to make sure because you were relying on guys sending you the film.

And so sometimes there were things out of your control that obviously the film, man, getting there was.

Could be a disaster.

So.

But I can remember that being something.

It was like, gosh, if I had it my way, man, I would just.

If there was a way to do it, definitely.

Gosh.

But it's certainly, you know, in the game that's evolved tremendously now from those, you know, vhs.

Absolutely, absolutely.

The thing that probably the most is just like on a college campus, you know, just interacting with a variety of people, you know, whether it's people in the dining hall or people in housing and.

Or the academic advisor, because those people are very important in your guys day to day and making sure that those things, you know, that, that, that's part of that experience, you know, nowadays, once again, that may not be someone or people that I interact every day with, but, you know, when you want to make sure that those kind of things are in order, you know, that, you know, that just helps everything kind of to kind of run smoothly.

But those would be, you know, just having the ability and opportunity to do that.

Whereas even, like now that's kind of changed some, you know, for most nowadays, you know, you can kind of work in your area.

You may not even have to leave the arena because so much can be done over email or, you know, for example, like zoom calls and meetings.

Right.

For sure.

Yep.

Where there used to be a lot more interaction on campus, you know, when you were a coach back then.

And I kind of missed that a little bit, to be honest.

And in my last, you know, years, just being able to.

I enjoy just going up on a college campus and just man, walking from one building to the other and interacting with people and that kind of stuff, because those kind of things are just kind of really getting a chance to kind of for people to get a chance to know you, not just see you on the sidelines and things like that, just interacting and getting a chance to build some relationships, you know, with people on campus and even in the community.

Community and stuff like that as well.

I just feel like the energy on a college campus, like I've had The opportunity to go and visit some schools.

My daughter's a junior now that Denison here in the state of Ohio and going and visiting schools with her.

And then my son is a freshman at Ohio Wesleyan so he's going to start his season here in a little bit.

So excited for that.

But going and doing college visits with him and walking around on college campuses.

Ben, like honestly, I could say I'm there.

I'm like, man, I'm jealous of you guys.

Getting the chance to just go back into this environment where there's so much energy and just.

Right.

So much opportunity in front of the young people who are there.

And I just, every time I step on a campus I'm just like, man, it's, it's so fun to be there.

Sometimes I look back on my own experience.

I don't know if you've ever done this, but I look back on my own experience.

I'm like, man, I wish I would have taken advantage more of, of some of the things that my university had to offer as opposed to.

I was kind of again just, I mean I was a really good student but you know, I was, I was a good student in the sense of I gotta do my schoolwork and get it done and get my grades and, and do all those things.

But the, the learning piece of it, you know, if I go back and think about 54 year old me taking the same college curriculum that I took back when I was a kid, how much smarter I would have come out of it, you know, how much more I would have learned that I did when I was, you know, between the ages of 18 and 22.

I just think the opportunity again like you said, to be on a college campus and to get out and interact with people, it just always to me feels like a place where there's just, there's just an energy and a level of opportunity that you don't see very many other places in society.

And I can completely relate to what you were just what you were talking about there of getting out and the ability to interact with other people on campus that are again, hopefully going to be supportive of your program.

Right, right, right.

That's true, that's true.

You know, I get so much of just so much like nowadays is social media piece and you know, it's not some places, I'm sure there's more than others, but just that interaction and, and you made a great point about how that can just simply generate, you know, more support and people in your stands, the students and that kind of thing and gives Them the opportunity maybe to do something a little bit different and what they're doing in their day to day as well.

Yep, that's awesome.

All right, I want to wrap this up by going back to where we started at the beginning, so getting back to combine and ask you a final two part question.

So part one is, when you think about the next year, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

You're about to tip off on Friday, play some games for the first time.

So your biggest challenge.

Then the second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do every single day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge first and then your biggest joy.

Yeah, biggest challenge is obviously, you know, just kind of really getting a feel about where our team, where we are.

Um, we've had a chance, we played a few scrimmages and stuff like that.

Um, I want to see growth in our team.

Um, I want to see something that's a little bit different from our team than what we displayed, you know, in our scrimmages.

Uh, obviously the end goal is to compete and win.

Um, I've always tried to kind of keep a perspective of, you know, of a season that, you know, you really try to see some growth, see your teams getting better.

So, you know, this week learned a lot about our team as far as, you know, the mentality, how they are and prep stuff and you know, as it kind of gets closer to games now, obviously the challenge is to see, you know, where we are as a team, you know, whether it's seeing that togetherness, seeing how hard we play, seeing, you know, over some things that, you know, that, that we'll get a chance to see in a real live game setting and see how our team responds with some adversity, to see how we respond with some success.

But yet I want to see growth.

I want to see us getting better.

I want to see us, you know, hopefully having carryover.

That's a challenge for me.

Of all the things we've been kind of talking about and working in practice and, you know, and then coming out of those situations, you know, once again, do we see those things?

And I think that's going to be the challenge for us, especially early on.

We're going to play two really good teams and you know, the unique thing about us is like they're two back to back games.

So right away, you know, we're going to, it's not going to be a situation where we going to have a lot of time to come out of Friday's game and okay, let's take couple days and really kind of folks know we're going to have to flip the page and go right to the next game.

So it's going to be unique and a little bit different.

As far as opening your season, you know, you open it up with two back to back games as opposed to, you know, you have one single game and you get a little time to prepare a little bit more for the next.

So I just want to kind of, the challenge is kind of see if we're ready for that.

The other thing is that up to this point.

Thank you.

Just what I like for our guys is that, you know, I never, I've never forgotten why I got into coaching.

And that's to help our youth, to help them grow, help them to grow as young men, help them to have learned some of those life lessons throughout the game.

And so even, you know, if it's something within a day that I see, you know, where I felt like, man, a guy has gotten better in some areas just in his life, then those are good things.

You know, I see those things or if I go on campus and I just happen to see one of the professors and they just may say, well, this, this guy, you know, he had a slow start, but right now he's doing better, he's doing well in class, I like him, you know what I mean?

And just, you know, man, just, just getting interaction, getting feedback about them, Just knowing some things that hopefully we've talked about or shared with them that, you know, or some things that, you know, they can display, you know, as people.

And then, you know, I think individually to just, you know, our guys, we've had a number of guys that have committed over the last few days and now getting to that point where even others are making big decisions, that's going to really have an effect on their livelihood moving forward and their choice of school.

That's fun to see because in the past I've been on the other side of that.

Having that young man and just recruiting him, his family to be a part of our program.

But just to see it from a different perspective and still be with that kid every day and now, you know, helping with that process as far as, you know, getting ready for that opportunity.

That's good stuff, Ben.

I mean, it really is.

And I think when you start talking about what coaching is all about, right.

It's about having an impact on young people.

And I always say that it's a privilege to be able to use the game of basketball.

Yes.

To be able to do that.

There's, there's no way that I can ever give back to basketball what, what it's given to me.

And so to be able to hopefully be able to have an impact on, on young people through the game of basketball, there's, there's nothing better than that.

Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share how people can connect with you, find out more about what you're doing.

So whether you want to share, email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah.

Thanks Mike.

And obviously, you know, certainly anyone wants to visit our website, which is combineacademy.com obviously you get a chance to see a lot about our program and what we're all about as far as ownership, management, the staff and all of our programs and teams and what we do on the day to day.

And certainly my email is bets betts combine economy.com so feel free to reach out obviously with any information that maybe I need to send or can send and just start even sharing your thoughts.

Ben, can I thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight.

Staying up late, really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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