This week I am stepping inside one of the most famous buildings in the world.

Not literally, unfortunately, but standing for over 200 years, it's become a symbol of American politics, democracy, and the free world.

Billions of dollars are spent vying for the opportunity to live there.

So I want to know how and why it was built, its evolution over time, and if its perceived importance is really all for show or if there's a greater purpose at play.

As I ask, what is the White House?

Welcome to America, a history podcast.

I'm Niamh Heffernan, and every week we answer a different question to understand the people, the places, and the events that make the USA a what it is today.

To discuss this, I am joined by the President of the White House Historical association, who in his 11 years as president, has expanded the association's cultural and educational programming through award winning books, popular video series, and virtual and in person events, as well as their own podcast, the White House 1600 sessions, which I'll link to in the show notes as well, and the People's White House Experience, which is celebrating its first birthday in September.

And it looks stunning.

And I'll send you all the information for the website on that as well, so you can check that out once you've listened to this episode.

He's also the author of three books, including the 2021 anthology, James Hoban, Designer and Builder of the White House.

It's a pleasure to welcome to the show Stuart McLaurin.

Thank you, Liam.

It's an honor to be with you.

Yeah, really great to have you on.

And I always know I'm in the company of an esteemed guest when it takes me that long to introduce someone.

So I'm really looking forward to this.

Well, I am as well.

I was intrigued by your introduction.

And, you know, we're a rather young house by European standards, but we're very proud of the White House and I'm happy to unpack and share a bit of its history with you today.

Yeah, I can't wait.

And I guess, you know, just to kick off that discussion, we should probably talk first about the construction of the White House.

So I wonder if you could shed some light on how and who approved it when this was signed off and, you know, the whole background behind the building of it.

Certainly.

Well, it was 1790, a few years after the American Revolution and the adoption of the American Constitution, which established our full form of government.

And the Congress of the United States was meeting in Philadelphia, where it was established.

At the time, George Washington was our first president and The Congress passed something called the residence act in 1790 that gave George Washington, or whoever may follow him as president, 10 years, from 1790 to 1800, to create a new federal city, a city that was just to be the home, the central home of the American federal government, in a way, uniting the northern states and the southern states of the colonies to a place here along the Potomac river in what we now call Washington, D.C. so that's a rather short period of time to locate the property, lay out the city itself, and begin construction of what we now call the U.S. capitol, where the Congress meets, and at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, what we now call the White House, the home of the President.

Were there any other cities that were in contention for the White house?

Because Washington, D.C. wasn't always the capital of the U.S. was it?

No, in fact, our initial capital was New York and then to Philadelphia.

But there was tension between the northern states and the Southern states.

Of course, that wasn't relegated to just the time of the American Civil War, but it was always the case, based primarily on economic issues.

You had the agrarian farming community of the American South.

You had the more industrial Northeast of the United States.

You also had a difference in ideology.

So those who wanted a more central federal government to this young nation and others that wanted more states and the authority of the states to govern their own affairs.

And through sort of a grand bargain, the 10 square miles was settled on, which took property from the state of Maryland and the state of Virginia and created 10 square miles along the Potomac river, which had just been really farmland up until that time.

It gave it a geographic centrality along the East Coast, a little bit more of a Southern feel, which it has maintained up until rather recently, actually.

And that's how it was settled upon.

There was no bidding or auctioning or proposals submitted from other cities to be the new capital.

It was really a finding the land and building this new place to.

To serve exclusively for the purpose of being the new capital city.

And considering the time that this was all happening, when America was still very much a collection of states and there was very little federal infrastructure, let alone a Treasury, who paid for all of this?

Well, the Congress appropriated about $400,000 in the currency of the time for the creation of the congressional meeting space and a home for the President.

And so that was the initial funding, and it was actually the Congress who completed the necessary funding for the creation of those two primary buildings that anchored the city, one for the Congress and one for the President.

And in terms of then, its actual construction and this might be where perhaps you're going to correct my own British history lessons about America.

But there's a lot of stereotypes around who built the White House.

I mean, was it slave labor that.

Built the White House in some measure?

Yes, there was.

George Washington, the first president, actually made a southeastern tour, swinging through the southeastern states in 1791, just a year into this, 10 years that he'd been given to create the federal city.

So he came down from Philadelphia, through Maryland, to Virginia, North Carolina and into South Carolina, which is where he was introduced to a young Irish immigrant by the name of James Hoban, Irish Catholic, had left Ireland because of the penal laws of the time, did not allow a Roman Catholic to attain the very highest levels of their profession.

So he certainly would not have called it that.

But really an early pursuer of the the American dream, came first to Philadelphia and then settled with other South Carolina.

In South Carolina, with other Irish builders in particularly, designers, draftsmen.

And it was there that he started building.

And it was where he met George Washington, who had noticed some of his buildings.

A year later, Washington, through a process, it was a competition, but I think Washington had his finger on the scale of it, selected Hoban and brought him to this federal city where he set about to build this new President's home.

And of course, you need several things to do that.

You need the labor.

And as you suggest, they did engage slave labor.

The government did not own the slaves, but they hired from slave owners in the region, enslaved persons.

We've to this date, our research has identified just over 200 of those who labored in what is now Lafayette park, just north of the White House as the construction area.

There were also free laborers, both white and black.

There were artisans brought from Europe.

We have records of eight stonemasons from Scotland who came over, also artisans from Ireland.

And so they lived and worked in this community, really around this place we now call Lafayette park, north of the White House, to build the President's house.

And it took eight years before John Adams, John and Abigail Adams, the first American president, actually moved in in 1800.

George Washington, ironically, never lived in the White House.

The only President not to have done so, but he was certainly instrumental in selecting the exact spot of land, hiring that young Irishman, James Hoban, and then really overseeing the process of building the house.

So what year was the White House completed?

So the cornerstone was laid in 1792.

John and Abigail Adams moved in as the first occupants in November of 1800.

But even at that time, the house was not completely finished.

In fact, there's a story, perhaps lore, but we hold to it that the East Room of the White House, the largest room in the White House still today, was so unfinished that Mrs. Adams would actually hang her laundry to dry in the East Room space.

It wasn't actually until the house was rebuilt after that fire started by those pesky English that came over in 1814.

Sorry about that.

It took three years to rebuild and in 1817, when James Monroe moved in as the President at that time, that the real the White House really was finished and completed.

So it took some time, but it was inhabited by John Adams and James Madison before it was, and then, of course, before it was burned and then rebuilt.

I'd really love to get a picture of that original White House.

What did it look like?

Are there any kind of major differences between the concept of the White House as it was initially built and what it is today?

Terrific question.

If you are familiar at all with Leinster House in Dublin, which is a great old Irish country house, when James Hoban would have seen it and known it, it's now the seat of the Irish Parliament in Dublin.

That facade of that building essentially is what the House, the White House would have looked like when it was occupied by the Adams.

The North Portico that we're so familiar with, with the pointed front, was not added until the presidency of Andrew Jackson.

And of course the South Portico, the rounded side that faces the South Lawn, where the President's helicopter lands, and the ellipse facing the Washington Monument that was added during the presidency of James Monroe.

So the core house, the main House, as it was when Hoban completed that first phase and John Adams moved in, is really very, very similar to what you see in the facade of Leinster House in Dublin.

And actually just thinking a bit sort of wider, you know, beyond the White House itself having been to D.C. the whole city is so.

It feels so perfectly planned out where you've got the White House, the Capitol, the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial.

And I mean, it obviously wasn't planned specifically for those buildings when the White House was first conceived, but it just, it felt like there was maybe a real long term plan there for, for the city in terms of how everything was laid out with the White House kind of sitting central to that.

Well, actually, the initial plan of the White House or the city, of the Federal City was created and laid out by a Frenchman by the name of Pierre l'.

Enfant.

He had his own challenges with some of the relationships that he encountered.

But the grand avenues that you see today, that are still in place.

Pennsylvania Avenue and the others that outlined the city and the streets of the numbered streets, the Alphabet streets, a very orderly city broken down into quadrants, northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, is really the general plan that l' Enfant had envisioned.

And then, of course, it was adapted.

Even where the White House is Now built at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, there were grand avenues that L' Enfant had designed to come directly into that square in front of the White House that never were completed.

So there was an initial design, and then it was adapted.

And the only thing that were the only things that were really set at that point in time, that initial building period, were the location of where the Congress would be, the Capitol, and.

And the location of the President's house where it is today.

Yeah, that's interesting.

And so going back specifically to the White House, you know, you touched on the fire, and obviously from that there had to be a fairly major kind of renovation.

But what were the other sort of huge or most significant renovations that occurred at the White House?

Well, it's a wonderful question, and it's one that I love to tell the story of, because there is a wonderful element in the White House itself that creates a structure for us to do that.

If you were to enter the North Portico of the White House, you're in the entrance hall, and as you walk up, there's a long red carpeted hallway that runs from east to west.

Your listeners, in their mind's eye, will recognize this as the corridor that they saw Barack Obama walk down to the podium when he announced that Osama bin Laden had been killed.

It was the same corridor that you saw President Trump recently walk down to announce the bombing in Iran.

So that's a very optically familiar place in the layout of the White House.

But right where that entrance hall meets that red carpeted cross hall in the floor is an oval, and in that oval are inlaid four dates.

And those are really four key dates of White House history.

It's the date of 1792, which is the date the cornerstone was laid.

1817, when the house was rebuilt after the British fire.

1902, a major renovation of the interior that was done by Teddy Roosevelt, President Roosevelt, at the turn of the 20th century.

And then 1952, when the house had fallen into such a state of disrepair that President Truman had to move out for almost four years.

And the entire interior of the house was gutted and rebuilt with modern infrastructure.

So those are the really the four key framing dates that we talk about as the major dates in the history of the White House and its evolution as a building.

I guess it's sort of a two pronged question here in that was the White House always designed to be a dual kind of office and living space?

And if so, how.

How were they able to create that separation?

Because, you know, we, we see a lot of the White House on tv, but that they're very much the bits that we're supposed to be seeing, right?

Well, of course, in our mind's eye, the White House, the building is a very large place, but it's not.

One of the comments that I hear most often in taking someone through the house is how small it is.

It's a rather intimate space.

It's six floors because it's somewhat deceiving.

There's some mezzanines and hidden areas, 132 rooms, but it still has an intimate feel to it.

Initially, it was built to be the home to the President and his family.

The office to the President and his staff were on the same floor, the same second floor level of the White House.

And as the President's staff grew and evolved, you get to the turn of the 20th century and Teddy Roosevelt had a large rambunctious family and they were living at the west end of that second floor.

On the east end was the President's actual office with his most senior staff.

And Mrs. Roosevelt finally said to her husband, the President, we cannot all coexist on this floor.

Something has to change.

So at that time, there were some greenhouses on the west end of the residence building.

Those were raised and the building, a building was built that has evolved into what we now refer to today as the West Wing of the White House.

That's where the Oval Office is, the Cabinet Room, the Situation Room, the Press Briefing Room, and the most senior age to the President.

It's really just a stone's throw from the main residence itself.

In fact, First Lady Barbara Bush used to tell the story of sitting at one of the White House windows and watching her husband, George H.W.

bush, walk home from work through the colonnade.

She called it, living above the store.

So it was envisioned to be the home, the office.

But in modern times, it's evolved to be this ceremonial stage upon which the United States welcomes our most important visitors.

It is a museum.

That White House is open for tours most Tuesdays through Saturdays.

They are able to get in five or six hundred thousand people a year to tour this house.

So that's quite a bit of activity that takes place in this rather small building.

But over time, the place, the space where the family lives and then the area where the President offices with his senior staff, those have been separated into what we call the residence, the main white building with the columns on the front and the west wing, which is off to the side.

A more shallow building, still small, but that's where the oval is and where the senior staff operate from.

That's really interesting.

And so you say it's a, it's a small building, but I mean, compared to my little sort of two up, two down that I'm living in, I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind the upgrade is all I'm saying.

But kind of on that note, who's actually responsible for keeping everything maintained and, you know, tidy?

There's a wonderful group of people.

They are called the residents staff at the White House.

They are in place regardless of who the President and for first lady may be.

They do not change when a President changes.

They are there, they belong to the house and they serve the house, about 100 of them.

And they're led by a position called the chief usher.

Little antique term here, but it is essentially like the general manager of a very nice hotel.

And reporting to that chief usher would be the curator which handles all of the art, the objects of the White House collection.

Chefs, butlers, plumbers, electricians, all of those who care for the house in every way, then the all those who care for the family upstairs as well.

So all of that infrastructure is managed by that chief usher and they operate it on a day to day basis.

Of course, it's the President's political staff who manages the events, the press conferences, the state dinners, all of the things that are orchestrated to operate the official presidency.

Of course they have to work hand in glove with the career staff who are there.

But it's an amazing process and I really do credit those hundred or so people who work there.

Regardless of the political affiliation of a President or the ideology of a president, they're there to serve the country and to serve the House.

And it's really a remarkable system.

Yeah.

And I'm going to make the assumption that of all the changes that happen within the White House when an administration changes hands, it's probably, you know, the chief usher and all of the maintenance staff that are probably the most likely to keep their jobs.

Because why change all of them when they know the ins and outs and every nook and cranny of the White House?

Right, that's true.

And there is quite a bit to know.

And the changes do happen suddenly.

We know when they're going to happen with an inauguration.

And it's actually on Inauguration Day that the bulk of the change actually does happen.

The outgoing President will go to Capitol Hill with the incoming President just before noon.

And as soon as they leave the house, the entire place goes into almost a fire drill pace.

I was over there on this past Inauguration Day to watch this happen.

So it's out with the old and in with the new.

And furniture's moved and paintings are changed and there's some repainting, a little bit of recarpeting that takes place so that when the new President and First lady return later that afternoon, everything has changed.

Their furniture is in, their clothes are in the closet, and life begins for them that afternoon as President and First Lady.

So how much autonomy does the President and First lady have in decorating the White House?

Are they allowed to put their own stamp on it?

That's a really great question.

So much of what we do and how that is done is governed by custom and traditional and customarily, there's a suite of rooms on the residence level that is the family quarters.

And in that space, they can do as they wish, bring in whatever they wish and make that their home.

The State floor, where we have the traditional rooms that you may be familiar with.

Red room, green room, blue room, state dining room, east room, cross hall.

Those are very traditional, very well maintained by the resident staff at the White House.

But it was Mrs. Kennedy who founded our organization in 1961 who put in place a process that is still in place today.

And that is the curator.

There had never been a curator to take care of the art, the objects before.

So in 1961, she hired the very first curator.

She created an advisory board of heads of historic homes and museums and galleries and architects and designers that simply serve as an advisory group to the President and First lady who may be considering some changes to the interior.

And then she created the White House Historical association, which is our organization.

We are privately funded.

We do not have a dollar of government taxpayer money whatsoever.

We're essentially like the friends of a museum group.

So when a President or first lady identifies a restoration project they want to do or a replacement project of some wall coverings or carpets or rugs, or if something is identified as having been in the White House before then, we will fund that with non taxpayer dollars.

We to keep the White house at what Mrs. Kennedy wanted.

And that's a museum standard.

So there's nothing that's ever frayed or worn or tired.

It's all fresh and maintained as if it were a museum.

In fact, the White House is an accredited museum, but when you go through it today, it's the very best condition on every single day as we can keep it.

Now, the President of the United States is the President of the United States, and they can make changes or additions that can be contrary to that custom and tradition I spoke of.

But virtually always that custom and tradition is honored and maintained.

Just to ask maybe a slightly personal question for the White House Historical association, but, I mean, you said you're fully privately funded, but I think preserving the history of something as historically significant as the White House feels like there's a justification there to perhaps warrant some sort of government funding.

So I guess, where has that decision come from to stay privately funded?

Well, no doubt the government is deeply involved to take care of the building itself, the infrastructure, of the physical plant, of the building.

Building is the government's responsibility, and the grounds are the responsibility of the government in the form of the National Park Service to take care of those 18 acres of the White House grounds.

But in the United Kingdom, in France, any other parliamentary system, or even here in the United States with our Congress, if we had to go to the Congress for these monies or.

Or in your case, go to Parliament, then inevitably there would be a political conversation that ensues.

Is that too much to pay?

We can't afford that at this time of economic challenge.

Why should the President's House receive that?

Or someone may say, oh, there's an artist in my state.

You must use that artist.

We in the system that was created by Mrs. Kennedy, take that totally out of the equation so we can maintain the House without having to go to the Congress and have it reported in the press that the President or the first lady want this money to make this change or to paint that room or to buy this carpet.

We can do it on behalf of the American people and maintain it without costing the government money.

And we can also do it faster than the government may be able to do it.

I love our friends in the United Kingdom.

I love our friends in France.

And yet, in the past year, I've been to 10 Downing Street, Buckingham palace, the Elyse Palace.

And so I'm sensitive to how they do have to seek funding from the government to maintain these beautiful spaces that the leaders live in.

And that can be uncomfortable and in a political dynamic.

And so in our situation, it is completely removed from the calculations.

Now, I do think that if Mrs. Kennedy had not done that, it would be impossible to do now, because the Other party would say, oh, you want to create a system that only benefits you and not the other party of the president who was in before you?

Well, she did it at a time when there were no political concerns about such a scenario.

We've now existed for 64 years.

We've worked with 13 presidents and first ladies, and that is the system that works.

And we're very honored to do that on behalf of the American people.

And you do some great work.

And obviously there'll be links to your association in the show notes as well.

So I'd encourage anyone listening to this to go check out all the amazing work that you do just to bring it back specifically to the White House.

Before we wrap this up, I'm keen to know, in terms of legacy and impact, what difference has the White House made to America?

Well, in 2026, America will celebrate its 250th anniversary.

To Americans, that sounds like a long time.

To British, French, Italians, that's a very brief snapshot of American history.

But in that time, the building of the White House has come to be an iconic representative of enduring freedom and democracy in our nation.

Certainly, there are billions of people around the globe that won't ever come to our countries, won't visit the White House.

Most of those, Liam, won't even meet an American in their lifetime.

But they know the image of that house and what it represents.

Are we a perfect nation?

No.

Do we have perfect leaders?

No.

Are there decisions that are made that in hindsight things could have been done differently or better?

Yes.

But we believe in and we have pride and confidence in this still young, still growing, still emerging nation, but yet a nation that is representative of people who've come here from all over the world.

And the White House is a symbol of that country, of these 50 states, states of the history that in our short period of time, from the American Revolution, where we had been British subjects, to then we were in a revolution with the British, and then we fought another war of 1812 against the British.

And then you advance to the 20th century, where we were the strongest of allies in World War I and World War II, and now the most, the closest of friends in the global community.

And the evolution of that relationship, the ebbs and flows of that relationship, and the leaders who have represented us over time, standing tall in our country among all of that is that building the White House.

And it stands today, and it belongs to the American people.

And a president comes and the president goes.

And they may be there four years or eight years, but there's always the next one that comes in and picks up that mantle and continues this experiment called American democracy.

And that's a great point.

But there will always be critics, won't they, who say buildings like the White House and even other state buildings around the world, they're just statement pieces.

They're just for show.

They cost a lot of money.

What do they, what purpose do they really serve?

I mean, is that true or.

I mean, I realize you're a bit biased with your answer.

Well, you know, every time I walk into the building, I am still filled with the same sense of awe and respect as the first time I went in as a young boy in the fifth grade visiting with a school trip.

And I'm over there and I see it on, in the eyes and on the faces of visitors, not just Americans, but people from around the world.

And it's, we're in the White House.

This is the White House.

There is something magic, maybe a little mysterious.

Definitely a sense of power in those halls, in those spaces that endures.

And even though our country is young, the building itself is only 225 years old.

It is a strong symbol in our country and it does have meaning and it does have purpose.

And people refer to it as, we're going to the White House.

We have a meeting at the White House.

And on the news, well, today the White House said, well, the building didn't really speak, but the White House is the imprimatur, the place, the voice, the, the image, the dynamic of the presidency itself.

And that is the stage from which our president does operate.

And to us, it's a very important building, but it's still just a symbol.

The importance is in the structure of the government itself and the people who vote and support that government and undertake their acts of citizenship, election after election after election.

Yeah, that's a, that's a great point.

And before I let you go, I think it'd just be fair to give you an opportunity to talk about your own podcast here because, you know, you talk about this and a lot of other stuff about the White House in the White House 1600 session.

So tell me more about it.

Well, thank you, Liam, very much, and I've certainly enjoyed having this conversation with you.

And likewise, I enjoy conversations I have with guests on my the White House 1600 sessions, which can be found on our website, www.WhiteHouseHistory.org.

i've done maybe about 110 episodes now, starting in January of 2017.

We release them monthly and they're all available most of them have a video visual component that goes with them because there's so much about the White House that is visual, and we want people to see that as we take people behind the scenes and unpack these stories of the history of the House.

So I would certainly invite all of your listeners to check out the White House 1600 sessions.

It's also available where you download podcasts as well.

But if you come to our website, you will find not only that, but a treasure trove of rich, wonderful resources to find further tell the story of the White House that we've been talking about today.

That's great.

Thank you so much, Stuart.

And it's been a real pleasure having you on the show today to talk about the White House.

I think we're nearly 80 episodes into this podcast and we've never actually talked about the White House, which feels criminal.

So I'm glad we've finally been able to.

Liam, you're welcome to come and visit.

And given that you're British, we just ask that you leave your torches at home.

But we'll still take the tea.

I think we'd love to have you.

We'd love to have you.

I will.

I will hold you to that one day.

And yeah, thank you to everyone that's listened to this episode.

If you've enjoyed this podcast, do please leave us a rating and a review wherever you're listening to this.

And if you.

If you give us a follow as well, all future episodes will just appear in your feed and.

And additionally, if you follow the links in the show notes, you can support the show from as little as $1.

So if you really enjoy what we do and you want to help us keep doing it, please do check that out.

I'm hoping that I can keep Stuart on the line to record a quick bonus episode which will be on your feeds very shortly after this.

But in the meantime, thank you so much for listening and goodbye.

Sa.