00:00:06 Shreya: Today we are exploring what it means to meet ourselves where we are, not where we think we should be, and not where someone else expects us to be. But right here in this moment. Welcome

00:00:21 Shreya: to the Soul Mirror. I am your host, Shreya and this space is about reflection, awareness and gently uncovering the patterns that shape us. I'm joined today by Charisma Veer, a holistic wellness coach and author who helps people move away from all or nothing self-help and toward healing, self-trust and a better quality of life. She is the author of The Light Switch Myth and Creator From Pressure to Path A Compassionate Framework for change. Welcome, charisma. I'm honored. Honored to have you back in my show.

00:00:58 Kerisma Vere: Hi. It's great to be here. Thank you.

00:01:01 Shreya: And before we dive into the frameworks, I'm really curious. Like, what did meeting yourself where you are mean to you personally before it became a part of your work?

00:01:15 Kerisma Vere: Um, well, for me, actually, it was, uh, um, in twenty eighteen, I, I finally got connected with, um, a really excellent therapist, and she met me where I was at, and I don't think I'd actually really ever had that experience. I was, you know, I think it was like forty eight years old or something, and, and I never had that experience. And it was so powerful because. Because when, when we are trying to do things from who we used to be or who we want to be, it's not really a fit, you know? Um, so for me, meeting somebody who is actually like, um, and it took a while for her to get me to give the answers of what was actually going on in this moment, but she would meet me, like in my current day struggles, feelings, needs, etcetera, etcetera. And it was transformative because it's like, oh wow, there there is help for this situation right here, exactly the way I am today, not based on yesterday or tomorrow. And then gradually over years, I, I learned how to do that for myself too. And it's liberating because when I make plans based on like this moment, who I am right in this second and, um, and my, my love for myself is based on who I am, not who I'm becoming or who I used to be. Then it's this whole new experience of of life and and making plans and decisions that are such a better fit and tend to work out a lot better because they're, I'd like to say, like based in reality, not the past or the present, but like like now. Right. Yeah.

00:02:58 Shreya: Yes. I one hundred percent agree. And also like, there is the cultural idea that change should feel decisive, like, uh, flipping a switch. Uh, you even write about that with. So what do you notice people misunderstand most about personal growth?

00:03:18 Kerisma Vere: Yeah. I think, um, well, well, one like, you know, society and sometimes even what we got internalized when we were younger and stuff like that has that idea that transformation should be instant and everlasting, you know? And if it's not everlasting, then we messed up, you know? And if it's not instant, then we messed up. But it's not us who are messing up. It's. It's that model. It doesn't change. Doesn't happen overnight. It never has, and it never does. And and if we can pull that off, it certainly doesn't last. You know, it's a, it's a momentary illusion that we've managed to create. And then, um, reality comes back and it's like real change, um, takes it's sort of like relationships and, and other kinds of things is just like sometimes we think that we can we can do that super quickly or whatever. But real trust actually takes time. Well, real change actually takes time, you know, and it and it is not it's not linear. And it involves, um, days where we can't do it or days where we go back a little bit because there's something else we needed to learn or, or we're just not, uh, you know, we, um, we have to default automated responses to things based on the ways that we've always done it and when when our energy, our capacity are, um, is low. We're going to have moments where we default back to those old ways. But if we can understand why that's happening and not, um, freak out about it the same way we do under the, um, instant transformation last forever kind of model, then it's like, oh, yeah, okay, I get why that. And it's so much easier to get back on track or to problem solve why it happened. Mhm.

00:05:09 Shreya: Yeah. And I think when someone believes growth should be instant or like dramatic, what tends to happen when their reality doesn't match that expectation.

00:05:22 Kerisma Vere: Well my, my experience that I've seen working with clients and certainly myself when I was younger is just like, okay, so you try really hard at something and you, you may or may not get the kind of results that you want to begin with, but they they don't last. So then what happens is you get you get frustrated. It was. It was already hard. You were already unhappy about the thing that you went to make the change about in the first place. So then you might experience like a little bit of relief from that, those feelings of, um, struggle. And but when it doesn't work, then that comes back. We layer it with guilt and shame and all this self kind of blame stuff that we do, which then reduces our capacity and our energy even more, creates a even greater need for the types of, um, behaviors and choices that that tend to work against most of our our goals and leaves us feeling very discouraged towards trying again. And so we might recuperate for a while, you know, like, back off. I'm not even going to bother trying to go to the gym for a while, because that was just a a failure. Obviously I can't do it. And we we lick our wounds for a while and then eventually we think, oh, maybe I'll try again. But if we try again the exact same way we tried the first time, we're going to get the same results. We're going to repeat that, that that cycle of like, you know, trying to do something in a way that's not actually even possible or realistic, getting frustrated, feeling like a failure and and then taking time before we try again and never reevaluating the actual approach. Um.

00:07:00 Shreya: Yes. I think it almost like we are conditioned to treat ourselves, uh, as projects instead of people like that. Pressure can quietly turn into shame sometimes. Also, and I think shame makes it harder to move. And also like when someone struggles to meet themselves where they are, what deeper patterns are usually underneath? That is it. Is it like fear? Is it trauma? Is it conditioning?

00:07:28 Kerisma Vere: Well, in my experience, um, a lot of it is is, um, people haven't actually had the opportunity or freedom, even, um, to create an attuned relationship with themselves where they understand their own feelings, needs, and reasons why they're there, trying to create the change. And a lot of that kind of, um, thinking that we're talking about, I see it a lot in people who, um, have low self-esteem or low self-worth, and that the kinds of changes that they're trying to make are really tied up in, um, what they think society or their friends or family or other people, um, expect of them or even themselves, that it's kind of like an effort to be good enough, you know, like that, that, um. Oh, I could feel good about myself if I did this. I could feel good about myself if I did this, rather than, um, taking the time to actually, um, learn how to offer yourself unconditional love right here, right now, before any of those changes, and then getting in touch with what your own values are and and things that you want to change for your own reasons, because they're deeply personal to you. And then bringing in that concept that, okay, I'm going to, um, oh, you have a plan and you have a plan and you have a plan. So I'm going to study all those. I'm going to learn about all of those. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to take a little bit from each of those, and I'm going to make them suit my life. Like, like for me, I like to think of as a as a coach, I deal with a lot of different lifestyle types of, um, goals that people have. But say, say you're wanting to, um, eat better, right? You know, me proposing a plan that involves, um, ten hours of prep every week to somebody who works sixty hours a week or has three children, that's not going to work. Right. And that's the kind of society that we live in is it's like, oh, well, here is a, there is a prescriptive type of plan. Now apply it. And, and then it doesn't fit people's lives because we're each unique individuals with different circumstances, different emotional realities, different energy levels, different priorities, different situations. So we need to be able to have that discernment of of taking the different information, um, hopefully evidence based kind of strategies and then running it through our own, um, filter of like, how do I make this work for my life? You know what? What is like, I'm trying to eat better, but broccoli is not in there. You know, I won't eat broccoli. I can sometimes get myself to do it for a little while, but then it always blows up in my face. But I have like, I have cabbage and I have cauliflower and I have carrots. I have all these vegetables I do like, but you see what I mean? Like trying to get myself to eat broccoli. What that would be about because society says, broccoli is good for you, but is it good for you? If it's not something that I like and it it takes a Herculean effort to get myself to eat.

00:10:49 Shreya: Yeah. And I think this broccoli example is really great to understand. Um, and I think many people can relate to also and like how does like trauma informed work shift that dynamic? Like what changes when we stop asking what's wrong with me and start asking like what happened to me?

00:11:11 Kerisma Vere: Yeah, I like that. Like the critic, you know, is was, in my opinion, was designed to help us survive, you know, and it did a brilliant job of trying to identify where I fell short, what I needed to look out for, um, where I needed to do better, was all in an attempt to make sure that I stayed alive, that I had a roof over my head, clothes on my back. Um, relationships. ET cetera. ET cetera. ET cetera. But it doesn't take things into context. So it's plans for me of you should try harder or you should do this, or you need to, or you screwed up or you failed. It's not taking the situation into consideration. Whereas the compassion based lens that we often see applied through trauma aware, um, types of applicational, um, approaches is like, oh, okay, so you got a really crummy sleep last night. You had an upsetting phone call when you woke up. Um, the milk was spoiled, so you weren't able to have your oatmeal and you didn't make it to the gym. So could we offer ourselves some understanding today? Just didn't go the way we wanted it to, right? Yeah. So. And then. And then if we could do that and understand, like, that's not a personal failing. That's life happening, right? You know, and there's there's valid reasons. It's not that we want to lose accountability. And so we might want to go okay. Well so today didn't work. Let's try tomorrow what could I. And what could I do I'll get some milk so that I can have my, my, um, oatmeal in the morning. I will, um, I secret I get non-dairy milk because I keep it in the cupboard and it never goes bad. So. But I will, um, I'll go to bed a little bit earlier in hopes that I'll be able to get a little. Bit more rest, and maybe I'll put my phone on do not disturb till I get home from the gym just so that nothing can distract me, right? But I would only be able to make that particular plan on days that I don't have, like other commitments that are going to interfere with it. So it's it is really like that compassion lens asks you and it asks you how you're feeling. Right? Like, um, after after today, I'm taking the rest of the day off because I've been going through some stuff and, um, I've been working really hard lately, and I know I need some downtime. I, I'm also aware, like, there's, there's, you know, like, I haven't been to the gym in a while. And then there's other things pulling at me. But but I'm aware today's not the day to push towards those things. Today's the day to meet myself where I'm at and give myself, like, a little bit of extra emotional tenderness, um, to just kind of like, help me with the stuff that I am. And in doing so, I will more than likely have way more capacity tomorrow. So that then when I do go to like add something in, like going to the gym or whatever, my chances of being successful at that are are much greater because it's not like if I were to try to do it today, I'm drained. It would be super difficult to do today. Whereas if I focus on self-care today and do it tomorrow, I mean, gym is self-care, but if I focus on a more restful kind for the rest of the day, you know, probably my energy and capacity is going to be greater tomorrow, and then that's going to make doing it. Um, not only a little bit easier, but more enjoyable, which is where the sustainability that I talk about comes from, that meeting ourselves where we're at, which is a real trauma informed, um, premise, you know, and choice. Like, I don't have to, um, I have a plan that involves going to the gym, but I don't have to. I have choice. I get to say, hey, that's not what I need today, you know? And for these other choices that I make to be equally, um, valid. And then in terms of coaching, to answer your question, it's amazing. You know, people are expecting they we set goals, they come back, they say, well, I didn't do it. And I'm like, oh, what happened? They think they're going to get in trouble. And it's one I've been working with for more than a year. And she still thinks she's going to get in trouble, even though not once have I ever given her trouble. I always want to know, like why? And then she feels heard and seen. And we work through the reasons that got in her way. And usually by the next week, she's doing whatever it was that she wanted to do, you know, because we met her where she was at and she got choice and she didn't get berated or anything like that, and that freed up this, the emotional and energetic space to be able to, um, keep working on the thing that she was working on that was important to her. Does that make sense?

00:15:55 Shreya: Yeah, definitely. And I think not only it makes sense, I think it, uh, this reframe really feels powerful because I think it moves us, uh, from like, self criticism to, uh, into curiosity. And I think curiosity is more softer. I think it creates a space for us. And also like for someone who is listening right now and who feels stuck between where they are and where they think they should be, how can they begin shifting from pressure to a path?

00:16:30 Kerisma Vere: Um, okay. Well, I have a few simple things I often suggest people start with. And, you know, one, um, Sort of. It'll. You know, I always. It's easier if I can work with people one on one or even in a group to get a better feel. So I can give you, um, more specific strategies that would fit your situation. But like, one is to just pause one or, you know, like one time of day to start and just ask yourself, how am I feeling? Um, check in with your your physical sensations. Are your thoughts racing? Are they zoned out? Are they very anxious? What's what's going on in your mind? You know, are you, uh, ruminating about things? What's going on in your body? Are you are you tense? Are you relaxed? Are you feeling detached? Are you feeling kind of sick? Are you feeling hungry or thirsty or tired? And what's going on emotionally? You know. And when I first started doing that, I was almost always struggling. I was almost always feeling, I'm trying so hard and this is not working. And I was feeling I was just feeling struggle, you know, and and and stress and struggle and fear and, um, I would choose in that noticing to just place a hand on my heart and say, hey, I hear you and know this is hard. I know you're trying. I love you. And that was it. Like, that was the beginning of meeting myself with unconditional love. It wasn't actually to, like, push myself to do the whatever it was, to acknowledge with myself how difficult it felt to not be able to do it, or to want to do it, or to have all the feelings that came with all the amount of time that I had felt this way, that went into, um, when I hadn't been able to do it, and it was just like, okay, I know, I know, this hurts. I know this is hard. I got you, you know, and that from that place first is awareness. And then there was that pause where I would offer unconditional love. And then there became choice. It's like, okay, well, if this is important to you, How can I support you in that? And then that's where I bring in other coaching tools. Like like the inchworm. Like breaking it down super, super small. Because taking tiny, tiny steps will get you across the room. Taking no steps won't. Right? But, um, taking a step, pausing, taking a step. So often people will make the the, um, because we're so desperate to make that change. We think we have to make huge steps, you know, because we're we're trying to get rid of that, that struggle that we have as quickly as possible. But it that's impossible doesn't work. Whereas if we just set little tiny steps and if you're not able to take those steps, try making them even smaller. And then what I'll often do when I can't even take any steps towards the thing that I want, I will just close my eyes and picture my feet facing forward. That's it. Facing forward. And this starts to build an internal environment that frees us up from the guilt and the shame and the suffering, to be able to have the energy to start to take those small steps and those small steps, build agency and confidence and hope, which then give us more energy and capacity to continue taking those small steps.

00:19:54 Shreya: Yes. What you said, like it feels like a code, like taking tiny steps will take us into a room, but taking no steps will not. And the best part about it? It feels like a permission. And also like growth is not linear all the time. We we circle back, we regress, we forget what we learned. So when someone slips into old patterns, how can they avoid turning that into evidence that they have failed?

00:20:24 Kerisma Vere: Well, again, for me, what I try to do is identify am I looking at it with the critic lens, which takes things out of context and is just judgmental? It makes it personal. I failed, I messed up, I must not want to do this. I, you know, um, it it'll make it all about me and it'll make it very, very personal. And it just it's not it's not taking the situation into consideration. Am I using that voice or am I using the compassionate voice that Will is really willing to look at the situation and go, oh, wow. Okay. Um, yesterday was the anniversary of so-and-so dying or this is going on or. Oh, right. You know, in in the back of my mind, I've been beating myself up again or. Oh, like, if we can bring that context in, I use tools of radical acceptance, which is accepting something that we're, uh, we don't necessarily want to accept, but in acceptance, we can then actually do something about it. Right? So I I'll use radical acceptance for whatever it is, and then I will, um, I will I will just use that compassionate based. um, approach of like, okay, I get, I get you're upset about this because it's important to you. So how do I help you do this? You know, because, you know, if you've ever dealt with a child or a friend, if you just, like, berate them for whatever mistake they made or or setback they're having or whatever, like, you know, they're just going to hang up the phone on you or close the door on you and, um, not talk to you until they've got it sorted out. Right. Whereas if you I think most of us do is we go, oh, wow. You know, I know how hard you're trying. We'll get it next time you've got this right. We want to go, like one step beyond with ourselves to you'll get it next time to like, actually asking, you know, how can I help you? Right? What what what do you need? This is clearly important to you, or you wouldn't be so upset. So how can I help you achieve that? And that might be actually getting help from somebody else, right? It might be, um, doing a little bit more educating. Sometimes it's just a matter of like, you know, offering ourselves some grace. Like, okay, you know what didn't happen today? Let's try again tomorrow. Mhm.

00:22:46 Shreya: Yes. I think I think that's such an important distinction. And this is again a very wonderful conversation. I think whenever I talk to you it feels like a permission itself. It's, it's a very warm space and the knowledge and the wisdom you share, it's really like I, I have no words for that. So if after this, my listeners want to connect with the, uh, which I'm sure they will, uh, then what's the best way?

00:23:15 Kerisma Vere: Uh, sure. I'll just say what you were saying about the conversation. That's the that's the biggest feedback I'm getting on the light switch myth that just got an award finalist award in the Indies today. Um, contest. But yeah, like, you know, we all need that freedom and permission. But please connect with me at Towards Wellness. That's my wellness. um, the books are on there. The ways I showed up for myself Journal, which is another really great way to, um, simply start to move towards this kind of, uh, relationship with yourself. And, um, there's social links and other ways I'm always happy to talk to, to other people. And, um, so you can find out all about me or my coaching or the books, um, or even just sign up for the newsletter at Towards Wellness.

00:24:07 Shreya: Yes. And I will again make sure to attach all these details and links below so that the listeners can find them easily and get in touch with you. And for my listeners, thank you for spending this time with us on This Old mirror. If something in today's conversation resonated, then sit with it, notice it, maybe even write about it. And remember meeting yourself where you are, not where you are is not giving up. It's the beginning of Honesty and honesty is where healing starts. Until next time, stay aware, stay gentle and keep looking inward. And do not forget to hit the follow button. Subscribe and feel free to share your thoughts because your ears deserve premium content. Thank you.