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Eddie: Welcome to episode
37 of the web joy podcast.

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I'm your host Eddie.

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And in this podcast, we interview
guests about their origin story and

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what makes them excited and joyful
to be part of the tech community.

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I hope you enjoy today's episode.

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I said, I'd never get a
Peloton with Sonya Myrie.

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Welcome to the next episode of Web Joy.

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I'm excited to have
Sonya joining us today.

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Sonya, say hi to everyone listening.

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Sonia: Hi listeners.

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Nice to be here.

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Thanks for having Yeti.

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Eddie: Absolutely, my pleasure.

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It's a pleasure for me to have
Sonya on because I was working

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with her at Glassdoor before.

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She left us, but that's okay.

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Nothing against you.

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No.

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Um, but it was a sad day.

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Really enjoyed working with Sonya,
so it's glad to just be able to

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catch up and chat and have this time.

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Yeah.

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I know who you are, but the
listeners don't, so if you don't

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mind, just kind of share who you
are, what you do, where you work.

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Brief

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Sonia: intro.

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Yeah, sure.

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Hi, I am Sonya.

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I used to work with Eddie at Glassdoor.

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I work in product marketing.

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I lead a product marketing team
at Intercom, which is another

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B2B tech company in the Bay Area.

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And I've been at Intercom
for almost a year now.

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A little less than a year.

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So still, still kind finding my way.

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Um, and I've, my career has been
in all various marketing roles.

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I've studied marketing in college, so
I feel like I'm one of those, those

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few people that actually, you know, am
doing the thing that I studied in, in

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undergrad, which makes me way less cool.

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I think . But yeah, I have been in
various different types of marketing

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roles, haven't always been in tech.

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That

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Eddie: is interesting.

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So you kind of went to college
for marketing, got into marketing.

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How did that transition go from kind of
general marketing to marketing in tech?

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Right, and doing product marketing
as opposed to just kind of marketing

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Sonia: in general.

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I worked, my first job outta
college was at Craft Foods.

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I was a brand manager,
which was really cool.

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I got to work on really iconic
brands like craft Mac and Cheese.

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I worked on a one steak
sauce craft barbecue sauce.

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Really.

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Um, yeah, to your point, like very
traditional C P G marketing where.

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As a marketer in those types of
companies, you are actually seen

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more as like a general manager, um,
kind of the way product managers

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are seen in tech companies.

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You're kind of like the
c e o of, of a product.

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But that's where I learned
a lot of fundamentals of how

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to work cross-functionally.

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Cause you're working with folks
in finance, people at the plant,

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manufacturing, the product supply chain.

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Truly like cross-functional role with
a lot of general management, but.

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Marketing where you're figuring out how
to talk and position about position a

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product, um, how you actually distribute
it, how you work with retailers like

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Walmart and Target to actually get it on
the shelves and thinking through pricing.

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So I actually learned a lot of the
fundamentals of product marketing, um,

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in that more traditional marketing role.

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I knew that I didn't, C p G
wasn't like, I'm, I'm kind of at

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Health Net, and so like I knew.

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Working in processed foods wasn't like my,
my calling forever, but learned to wrap

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a lot of really great foundations there.

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And so made my way over, um, and took the
world to consulting into a little like

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brand strategy consulting for a while.

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And then that's kind of
when I transitioned to tech.

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And I'm happy to talk more about like
how I meet that transition, but, I feel

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like a lot of the foundations I got in
that, like those early days that craft

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are like things that I use every day,
even in a completely different industry.

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That's awesome cuz I

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Eddie: was kind of wondering Yeah,
like how different was it to do product

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marketing, you know, in a non-tech company
in the traditional sense versus product

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marketing in, in a more of a tech thing.

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But it sounds like there
are, there are loss and.

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Sonia: Yeah, I mean, it's pretty different
in that like in a more traditional

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company, like C in C P G, like you are
the playing that product manager role.

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So you're figuring out how
is our product performing?

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And, and as a product marketer,
you should know all those things.

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You're just not as like accountable
or responsible for those things.

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And I actually, personally, I like
being in more of a supporting and

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contributing role, like working closely
with our, my product manager on those

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things as opposed to like N C P G.

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I mean, if, if the plant shuts
down and stops making craft mac and

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cheese, like that's also your problem,

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Oh no.

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We don't have those problems in tech.

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We can ship our product a lot easier.

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You know, when I, when I wanted to, when
I was working on a new brand of barbecue

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sauce, it took me like a year and a half.

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To convince our VP that we
needed to create a new line at a

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manufacturing plant just to make
a new flavor of barbecue sauce.

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And so I think that's, that kind of speaks
to the, like, I knew I didn't wanna be

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in packaged goods forever, cuz it just
moves at a, a much different pace when

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you can just add a new line of code  to
your, your software and then ship it.

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It's just a, it's just a different,
you know, sense of speed that you.

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There are a lot of similarities in
that you're solving some base, some

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of the most very fundamental questions
in terms of like, who's our customer?

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What is the problem that
we're solving for them?

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How do we, you know, help them understand
that our product service offers the

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benefits that they're looking for?

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How do we frame those benefits?

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And then how do we get it out
into the hands of our customers?

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So a lot of the questions are
fundamentally the same, whether

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you're selling like noodles.

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Or sales marketing support software like I

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Eddie: do now.

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Yeah.

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I guess like you said, people, people
have needs and they think about

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those needs the same way you're
just looking at different needs.

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Right.

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And you're fulfilling different needs.

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Well, cool.

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What is it that, like you said, a lot
of people go to college, they end up

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deciding, Hey, I'm not interested in this
thing, and they actually, you know, make

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a turn and they do something else and you
didn't, which well you said, you know,

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might make you kind of boring, I think.

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It shows that there's something
that has really captivated you about

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product marketing, and so I'm just
curious what keeps you excited?

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Right?

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What has kept you in it kind of this whole

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Sonia: time?

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I think I really enjoy, like, I think
this is gonna sound so lame, but like,

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if I wasn't a product marketer, I think
the next job that I would really wanna do

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is like being a, like a pure researcher,
like I Gen, I genuinely enjoy like doing

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primary re, like getting to talk to
customers, hearing the way that they talk.

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There are problems doing
that with 20 customers.

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Like dissecting the themes out of that,
figuring out where there's commonalities

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and where there's differences, and
where there's segments or groups

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of customers that are the same.

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And so I really enjoy that type
of thinking and more of that

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kind of like getting really
underneath what people are saying.

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Like, I think I could've, I would've
been really interested in like therapy

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or psychology or something similar to, I
don't have, like, I have the patience for

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that, but I think, yeah, the connection
to people and really trying to understand

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the challenges and problems that they
have is really interesting to me.

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And has like, is at the, pretty
much the core of any marketing

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skill that you're gonna do.

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I think there's, you know,
roles out there in marketing.

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You're gonna be in marketing analytics
or SEO or content that are much more

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like, you know, data focused and a
product marketer, you, you certainly

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need to know how to work with data and
how to frame that and craft a story.

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But like as a product marketer,
you're much more of a.

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jack of all trades, like wear a lot of
different hats, which can be one of the

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really challenging parts of the job.

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But for me, I really like
having that flexibility.

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I think if I was like a marketing
analytics person where I was just

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like optimizing a funnel and trying
to get as many leads into the top

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of the funnel and converting them.

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And not to say that it's not strategic,
but you're like you have a craft

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and that craft is is kind of bound.

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Whereas in product marketing, like.

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. If you look at my calendar, I'm in
meetings about pricing and packaging,

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and then I'm talking to r and d about,
you know, what the roadmap looks like,

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and then I'm working with our social team
on how we, you know, what we're gonna

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be saying when we launch a new product.

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And so I really enjoy that
cross-functional, like variety that I get.

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That's cool.

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Eddie: One of the things that
we often talk about in this

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podcast is what brings us joy.

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So taking a little bit of a, a
shift away from your journey, I'd

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just like to ask like, Hey, what
is it something that kind of brings

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Sonia: you joy?

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I was mentioning this earlier,
but I, so I'm a, I'm a mom.

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Um, I have a 20 month
old and before I had a.

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I should just say one and a half , not 21.

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. I feel like that's very confusing
for people to have to do the math

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and in their ties, almost two.

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I think that before I had a kid, I
was like really just an active, like

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I hiked a lot and did yoga, but I
feel like when you have a kid, you

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tend to be confined, especially in
a pandemic to your house a lot more.

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And so I, I said I would never
get a Peloton, but I did it.

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I broke.

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I was like, I need to be able.

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Do fitness in my house and that was
one of the options available to me.

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Um, and so I got a Peloton and I recently,
there's a app called Apple Challenges.

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It syncs with your, with your Apple Watch
and there's different like groups that you

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can join and it like tracks your exercise
and your steps and you can basically,

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like I'm in a group of like a bunch of
Bay Area moms and we're like climbing the.

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Of other Peloton users
and Apple Watch users.

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I think there's like a high degree of
overlap between like I have a Peloton

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and I have an Apple Watch . Obviously.

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It's been really fun.

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It's been really motivating for me
to just like open up the challenges

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and see like there's, I'm in a, my
group is, my cohort's like eight

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people and like my goal is just to
not be number eight for the day.

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Eddie: That's a good

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Sonia: goal.

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Yeah, it's been motivating.

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Forced me to get on my Peloton and you
know, I know that the Peloton company

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is going through, they're going through
quite a lot of challenges actually.

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That's a, that's something that
like, is just very interesting to me.

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Just tracking the company's like
trajectory right now and just, you

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know, just seeing what they're up to
is I, I think, really fascinating and

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I have a few friends on their product
marketing team and just interesting to

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chat with them about what they're up.

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I used to kind of laugh at those
kinda like gamification, not

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laugh at them, but just, I never
really needed that motivation.

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But I think now being a mom where I could
like easily, you know, put my kid to bed

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and be like, oh, I just wanna lay down.

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It's a really good source of motivation
for me and it's, it's really simple.

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So, I'm really

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Eddie: enjoying that.

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So you feel like you didn't need as
much of that motivation before, cuz

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you probably, you know, had more time
available and things like that, but

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,  
Sonia: more sleep available

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Eddie: for sure.

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Yeah.

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So, okay, so now that you kind of
are feeling the, the sleep crunch

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and the time crunch, it's like
you have that little thing on your

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wrist like taunting you, like, hey,
yeah, you don't wanna be in last.

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Sonia: Oh yeah.

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I never had an Apple watch
before I became a parent.

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This is probably the worst advertisement
for being a parent . But yeah, I didn't,

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wasn't really into the whole connected
fitness thing before, but now I like

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really enjoy seeing my stats on the
Peloton and I try to break my record

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and I think I'm a fairly competitive
person, , and so I don't know why.

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I guess I was never into it before.

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. I really like being able to see like,
like my resting heart rate over the

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past six months has gone down and it's,
it's like super motivating to stay up

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and health, health and wellness is like
really, really important to me in general.

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Um, so it's a good way to
stay on top of it for sure.

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Eddie: That's interesting.

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Yeah, it, I find it interesting how.

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Some gamification.

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Things do work and some
don't depend on the person.

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Most gamification stuff
doesn't work on me.

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for some reason.

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I don't know why, but, um, du lingos
gamification has worked for me like.

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I am on like 352 days of Spanish
right now, and thank you.

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And it's like, no, gamification
stuff has worked on me, but for

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some reason I am like, I'm like,
I will not let this streak break.

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Like I'm gonna keep my, my Spanish streak.

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Sonia: Yeah.

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I feel you on this.

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That's how I am.

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The Peloton has a
similar streak situation.

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Like there's a little blue check, you
get a little blue check for every day and

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it's like, I ha see, you know, they show
you a month at a time and I see like blue

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check, blue check, blue check, and like
the thought of one  not being checked blue

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is like really, really scary to me now.

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But yeah, I'm not the type of per like,
getting badges and points and yeah,

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that's like less, less interesting to me.

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But give me like a box that I
have to check and I will get it.

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Eddie: That's awesome.

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That was really cool.

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Yeah.

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I think one thing that helps me,
I have an Apple watch and I don't

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tend to focus too much on the
rings because there's no rest days.

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So if you lose one day,
your streak is broken.

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Yeah.

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Du Lingo has occasional rest days that
you build up by, like you get points

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when you do stuff, and then that gives
you a freeze, and then the freeze gets

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you a rest day if you accidentally.

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So I like that.

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I think I have a problem with the
streak programs that don't give you any

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breaks because it's like, that's just

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Sonia: impossible.

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Yeah.

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And that's not like, especially if
you're thinking about like health

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and wellness, like you mm-hmm.

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, you need to have a, and like Peloton,
there's ways to like work the system.

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They have like meditation and they have
stretch, like a 10 minute stretch and like

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you can, you know, that's good for you.

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You should stretch on your rest days.

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But I That's really cool that they
have, so do you basically have to

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be like, today's a rest day and
then you pay in points or something?

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Or how does it work?

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Eddie: So you have to stock up on refills
so you can get like two freeze refills.

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Mm-hmm.

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. And so you just basically have them
as long as you've paid for them

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with your points, you've got them
in your little backpack or whatever.

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And so then if you miss the day, , then
it'll use that freeze, and then it'll

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message you like in a push notification
like you've run out of freezes.

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Like, you better do it.

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Or it's all for, not

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. 
Sonia: Oh.

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Oh, wow.

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Well, next time we'll have to do
this interview in Spanish because

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I am also, I'm actually reading
children's books in Spanish.

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Right.

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They're, they're not like
awesome toddler books.

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They're like, like probably
a fifth grade level.

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Um, my, our, our nanny for our.

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Um, only speak Spanish and I, I'm
like a, I would say I'm a solid,

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you know, advanced beginner, maybe
like early inter intermediate.

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Um, but she like recommended that I
read some books in Spanish that are,

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00:14:24,242 --> 00:14:28,982
they're crafted so that they use the
same like 200 words over and over again.

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So it's like a very boring, like it's, you
don't read it for the plot . Yeah, but it.

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I guess a studied approach for learning a
language that if you are exposed to, if,

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if you know, like I think it's something
like 150 to 200 words in a language, you

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00:14:46,512 --> 00:14:50,502
know, 90% of the things that you need to
say, I'm totally getting these numbers

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00:14:50,502 --> 00:14:51,972
wrong, but something along those lines.

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00:14:52,152 --> 00:14:56,532
80, 20 year old, and so I've
been reading those books and it's

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00:14:56,532 --> 00:14:57,732
been really helpful because it's.

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00:14:58,242 --> 00:15:01,062
Using the same words over and over
and anyways, next time we'll have to

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do this in Spanish and see, see how

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Eddie: it's going.

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There we go.

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00:15:03,852 --> 00:15:07,662
I, I probably wouldn't be able
to, to do half of the conversation

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00:15:07,667 --> 00:15:09,042
in Spanish, but I could try

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00:15:09,672 --> 00:15:09,792
Yeah.

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00:15:10,842 --> 00:15:11,592
Awesome.

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00:15:11,592 --> 00:15:15,792
Well, as we wrap up today, one
thing we always love to do is we

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00:15:15,792 --> 00:15:19,362
love to support each other and
hear like, what are people up to?

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00:15:19,362 --> 00:15:19,602
Right?

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00:15:19,602 --> 00:15:23,592
Is there anything that you're involved
in or that you're working on that you'd

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00:15:23,592 --> 00:15:25,392
like to share that people might find?

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00:15:26,227 --> 00:15:28,537
Sonia: I am part of a
community called Share Bird.

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00:15:28,537 --> 00:15:30,487
It's a, they have a community
of product from product

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00:15:30,487 --> 00:15:32,347
marketers and product managers.

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00:15:32,677 --> 00:15:38,197
It's a great community where you can, um,
there's a lot of AMAs and a lot of really

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00:15:38,197 --> 00:15:43,147
good insights that I feel like you can't
get on other kind of community forums.

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00:15:43,237 --> 00:15:45,877
Uh, people are kind of giving
really candid responses for how

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00:15:45,882 --> 00:15:47,797
they approach certain situations.

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00:15:47,797 --> 00:15:51,367
I use it all the time if I'm like, I
can't, I, how do other people approach,

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00:15:51,367 --> 00:15:53,467
you know, influencing the product roadmap?

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00:15:53,472 --> 00:15:54,667
I, I, that's a bad example.

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00:15:55,102 --> 00:15:56,182
It's a great forum.

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00:15:56,212 --> 00:16:01,102
Um, and I've done a few, uh, AMAs, um,
in the past and I'm doing one actually

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00:16:01,102 --> 00:16:03,202
in a few weeks, which will be great.

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00:16:03,232 --> 00:16:08,272
Um, my topic is on actually how product
marketing and product management work

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00:16:08,272 --> 00:16:11,062
together and how they're different and
how they're similar awesome sort of thing.

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00:16:11,122 --> 00:16:13,492
So if you're interesting in product
marketing or product management,

332
00:16:13,792 --> 00:16:15,022
that's definitely one to check out.

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00:16:15,022 --> 00:16:18,622
But yeah, there's a lot of really great
product marketing leaders on there sharing

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00:16:18,892 --> 00:16:20,692
insights, and I think it's a great way.

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00:16:20,957 --> 00:16:24,617
Like learn from others at other
companies and, and kinda how

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00:16:24,617 --> 00:16:25,427
they're approaching things.

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00:16:25,427 --> 00:16:28,337
So, um, that's my plug for, for that.

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00:16:28,547 --> 00:16:29,327
That sounds

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00:16:29,387 --> 00:16:30,017
Eddie: good.

340
00:16:30,077 --> 00:16:32,987
Well, Sonya, thank you so
much for joining us today.

341
00:16:32,987 --> 00:16:36,287
It's just been a pleasure to,
to chat, see what you're up to,

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00:16:36,317 --> 00:16:39,047
kind of catch up and uh, yeah.

343
00:16:39,047 --> 00:16:39,947
Thank you for joining

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00:16:39,952 --> 00:16:40,337
Sonia: us.

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00:16:40,427 --> 00:16:41,987
Yeah, thanks for having me, Eddie.

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00:16:42,137 --> 00:16:43,187
Happy to chat anytime

347
00:16:43,925 --> 00:16:46,565
Eddie: Thank you for
joining us for episode 37.

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00:16:46,895 --> 00:16:50,135
I said, I'd never get a
Peloton with Sonia wirey.

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00:16:50,465 --> 00:16:53,435
You can find links to everything
we've talked about in this episode,

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00:16:53,675 --> 00:16:57,155
as well as a link to Sonia social
media accounts in the show notes.

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00:16:57,635 --> 00:16:58,865
If you enjoyed this episode.

352
00:16:58,865 --> 00:17:00,665
I help others discover it as well.

353
00:17:01,145 --> 00:17:04,745
How about giving us a shadow on your
favorite social media platform and tag

354
00:17:04,745 --> 00:17:08,375
a friend or coworker that you think
would especially enjoy this episode?

355
00:17:08,945 --> 00:17:12,635
Don't forget to follow us wherever
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356
00:17:12,635 --> 00:17:14,405
our newsletter and stay up to date.

357
00:17:15,005 --> 00:17:17,945
Thank you for listening
and have a great day