You're listening to the Driving Confidence podcast for drivers who want to be calm and confident on the road. We will be sharing tips, stories and advice to beat driving nerves and anxiety and build your driving confidence. Whether you are just starting out as a learner or have had your driving license for years, if you want to transform how you feel about driving, this podcast is for you. So on this last episode of Season nine of the Driving Confidence Podcast, we're delighted to invite on Kev Lines and his student Lydia, to come and join us and talk a little bit about their stories. And the motivation behind this is that it can be really hard sometimes to find a driving instructor. With the experience that you need as a student. So whether that's whether you need somebody with experience of anxiety, neurodiversity, or perhaps you've got some other particular needs when you are learning to drive, and there are lots of. Different varieties of driving instructor out there. So you need to shop around and find out who does what, what their experience is, and find the best match for you. Yeah. It's finding one that suits you, isn't it, so that you can learn best. I think that's what we're here for. Yeah, definitely. So thank you very much for joining us, Kevin. Lydia, thank you for having us. Tell me, tell me a little bit about yourself. I've been in driver training for a long time. I mean, my first driver training job was probably 20 years ago. Um, but my background was buses, public transport, and it took me a long time to get into training new drivers. Um, so I didn't really know what to expect, but it was kind of, it felt like a natural progression for me to move on to that, but it was very. It didn't take long for me to realize that there was something more I wanted to do and I wasn't sure what it was. I couldn't put my finger on it until Lydia came along and yeah, she was the inspiration for me going down the path of I. Being able to provide lessons for people who perhaps are nervous, lack of confidence, and even lots of, uh, neurodiverse conditions that people have to deal with in their lives on a daily basis. And driving is one of those things in life. It's kind of a big milestone in your life, so people put a lot of weight on it. And it's scary as well. So you know, you've got the run of the mill neurotypical people that just take it in their stride, get in the car with anyone, and sort of most things is walk off a duck's back. But for a lot of people, just picking up the phone or sending a message to a driving instructor is a massive feat in itself. So not knowing where to start, and that was kind of. Lydia comes into it is we were thrown together purely by chance and it started a journey that obviously has been very positive for Lydia, but also I've learned just as much as she has and that kind of, that was, I mean, what was it, Lydia, about a year ago. You've been driving a year ago? Yeah. Yeah. I start, I passed my test in July and I swear I was learning to drive for some time, like it wasn't. It wasn't a quick feat, that's for sure. So it's been quite a while, but with a big smile on your face like that, it sounds, and looks like you had a fantastic time while you was learning to dress. I had a really good time. Yeah. Well this is the thing like we, but kept saying is that we genuinely got so much out of it because I said to him that I just having like that space in the car and I can't even describe it, like it genuinely. It taught me so much about, not just about learning to drive and stuff like that, but about like you were saying before, that you can just, like, even if it's harder for you to learn to drive and it takes a bit longer, it doesn't mean you can't learn to drive it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong or it doesn't mean, you mean. So it just means that like maybe you need a different method or maybe you just need a different like teaching style. And I feel like that's what I found, like being in the car with Kevin is that. It wasn't a me issue, it was just something a little different. And I don't know if it made you realize, Kevin, but that you can provide something different that people wouldn't get from somewhere else, and that necessarily isn't necessarily available. So I feel like we both had that realization at the same time, which is why it really helped. Like we kind of helped each other a lot with that. Because I didn't feel like, I mean, I taught 17 year olds and it, you know, the same old thing that we hear about how much it cost, how long is it gonna take, you know, can I pass my test in a month? And you get that sort of person and if that's what they need and want, I'm sure there's people out there that can provide it. But for me it was like I wanted to do more. I felt it wasn't just about drop passing a test, it was about. Somebody embarking on a journey that was scary and daunting for them. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to be able to bring them into that world. And, and sort of, it's not, it doesn't have to be scary, like Lidia said, it can actually be fun and it's, you know, it's not prescriptive. You don't have to learn a certain way. You have to, you don't have to do it a certain way. You don't have to do certain things in a certain order. A lot of it is geared just around the learner and how they learn. And a lot of it, it doesn't have to be technical either. You don't, it doesn't. What I found through that journey was. You don't have to be an expert in neuro. Diverse conditions. You don't have to be an expert in all things psychological and things like that. But I felt like I needed to know more than I did. And I dunno if you've heard of it. There's a course Drive Calm, I think it's called. Yeah, there's this couple that do, uh, like a, a drive calm course. Yeah. I dunno if you've heard of it. Um, but it was very good. Tell tell me more. Tell me more. Yeah. So that was my motivation. It was. Meeting Lydia, finding out about Lydia and what her journey's been and feeling like, yeah, I think I could help this person. And it kind of opened up a few doors and it's like, well that's interesting and, and that's like kind of led me to you guys and then kind of everything else has happened in the meantime. So, yeah, lovely. And see we, it's very rare that we get to find out the history behind people that we work with, so, so it's lovely to actually see that Lydia, it's sort of like you becoming a student of care. So that then has brought care onto our training course. So I was gonna say, Lydia, tell us a little bit about, so obviously we know that you've passed your test, you, you started with, with the, the success bit, so there's no spoilers. It's, uh, we, we know that you've passed your driving test already, but can you cast your mind back a bit to those early days of being a learner and what were some of the things that you found more challenging? I feel like the, we were literally just talking about this the other day about like more specific things. Um, but I've kind of like deducted that it was, there weren't specific things. It was more just a general lack of confidence that was the biggest issue and yeah. And obviously that affects everything, doesn't it? So, yeah, under confident, I feel like everything was a bit of an issue, even like starting out in the early days. Just turning a corner was like nerve wracking, or going above like 15 mile an hour was nerve wracking. So I think that was the biggest obstacle, was just the general confidence issue, which I think is the same for a lot of people. And that's the whole point of like why people prolong it and stuff like that, because. And what, uh, Kevin was saying earlier about how even just picking up the phone is like a really difficult for some people because it's just a lack of confidence. And what's great is hearing you say that, but actually just seeing you say it with a smile on your face knowing that you've passed your driving test. And so how do you feel about driving now? Well, I, I do feel really good about driving, but Kevin took me out in his car the other day and it was like the worst drive I've ever done in my life. So like, you're probably sat there thinking like, I don't know, put put it into con put it into context. Okay. Put Lydia Learn in a manual petrol car, and now I do automatic electric car lessons. So it was a complete change of vehicles though. Yeah. Yeah. Completely different. In like my perfect pristine like usual environment. I'd say that I'm pretty confident now. Obviously, like I was saying the other day, that I've not gone on the motorway. However, I have conquered the A one, which I didn't think I would do, and the slip roads. So I'm feeling pretty good about that. Bit more confident these days, but it definitely, like every now and then I'll just like think to myself and I'll do something I. My driver's test because it's just like, I feel like it's just such a big thing and like back in the day it used to be such a big thing that I was like so scared about. And now every now and then, I just need to like remind myself that like I've, I've ticked that one off. It's done. It's lovely, isn't it? It's nice when you can actually say it's authentic. What you are saying is authentic to you and what you've got out of the lessons that you've had. Yeah. Is, is, is is brilliant because you've obviously been taught in a way that suits you and a way that made you feel you could potentially not be confident but still learn. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's it. It's like you don't actually need to be. Confident. You just need to be open to learning. Like obviously you're gonna make mistakes, obviously you're gonna stall every now and then, or you're gonna panic, but that's fine. Like you don't have to be confident from the get go. Like you learn from every mistake you make, probably more so than you would learn from something just being successful straight off the bat. So like it's just taking a different approach and like allowing yourself to be a bit under confident and just still have a little bit of faith in yourself. So I'm, I'm gonna sort of like turn the tables a little bit, if that's okay. Mm-hmm. But Lydia, what do you think Kev learned from teaching you to drive then? Hmm. Good. I wasn't expecting that. Um, I don't know. I feel like, I don't know if it's something that, like you, I thought you already, like, I didn't realize I was the first person that kind of like. Sparked this train of thought and this direction because when I was with you, you seemed very like, confident with it and, but it's just small things like. Um, pulling over for a coffee and stuff like that, like when things are getting stressful. Um, I dunno if you did that anyway, or you realized how much of an impact it made, even just the option. I remember when it was like later in the day and we had. When we had the lessons and I was so tired and so drained and like there were two hour blocks and just you giving the option of like changing the lessons because I remember you just asking me like, would it be better if we did it a different time of day or something like that. Um, or a shorter lesson and just like changing bits like that made a huge impact. But I dunno if that like. If that helped you kind of understand how much of an impact this makes and like how much it means to the students when you do this. Like when you just do little ultra and you just like notice things and when you pick up on like the mood change and stuff like that. Like I don't, I hope anyway that like I helped you see that that was massive and that it made a really big impact. But yeah, and also like as I was saying earlier about how that's not a normal thing for like a driving instructor to do, so I think it's really nice that you've like taken this on to go towards like more neuro, neuro-diverse students because it's almost like it's so special and it's so rare to find that, that it's nice to be like, like putting it all on people who desperately need it rather than like every now and. Wasting it a bit. I don't want, that might sound a bit rude, but like wasting it on people who don't need it. How nice is that? Have you noticed Kevs, the picture in Kev now the head's got slightly bigger and bigger. No, we said this, like, he warned me that this would happen. We we're aware that we're gonna, but that's so nice though, to be the, the sense I got from that and I suppose people that are gonna be listening to this is. It wasn't about Kev at all. It was all about you and your needs and what you wanted and how. Yeah. It's great, isn't it? I love that. Yeah. And that is, I would imagine what Kev was learning as you would get as he was going through the lessons. So let's move that. Yeah. With his swap it round. Let's swap it round. So what would you say that you learned from your lessons with Lydia? Uh, stopping and having coffee's a benefit, not, not a disadvantage. We'd bring our own, you know, we'd, we'd come from. It would be cold coffee. Yeah. Like liquid warm coffee at that point. Yeah. I mean, it is, for me it was, I'd got these ideas and long before I'd heard the term be a detective that. Kind of what I was doing. You know, you pick up on things so you know, you can tell, like I could tell if Lydia was feeling particularly stressed about a certain situation and it was Right. What can I do to make this easier? And sometimes it was. Move from somewhere busy to somewhere quieter. It could have been, let's pull up and just have a breather and a chat, and it was just picking up on signals at first. But then when you experience that and you see the impact that that small choice. That I've made. 'cause the thing I, the thing I realize about learners now is they won't ask, they won't say, oh, can we pull over? I had a, a young lady the other day who was really like, she was getting more and more stressed out and I just pulled over and she said, I'm really thirsty. One of the things I do is I carry bottles of water in the boot. And I said to her, hold, hold on a minute. And I got out and I got her a bottle of water and she drunk it with such ferocity. She was that thirsty. She was just clamming up. And I even felt bad about not noticing that a little bit earlier, but the fact I picked up on it, I had a solution to a problem and it solved it, but I might not have not going down this journey and picking these things up. I might have just carried on and just, you're gonna get your money's worth out of the lesson. So we're gonna just keep driving. You're gonna keep doing what we are doing. Whereas sometimes just, just stop him for a minute. And, uh, A-D-V-S-A examiner said to me once they learn when you are parked at the side of the road. There's no point trying to get somebody to do something if they're concentrating so much on what's going on in front and behind them, that their ears just don't work and it would go in as words and come out as mush. So just those moments when you can pull over and have a breather, it worked. So for as far as I'm concerned, if it works, you know, don't break it. Yeah, absolutely. And there is, there's so many driving instructors who have heard other messages, which is about keeping the wheels turning. They're not learning if the wheels aren't turning, and that isn't the way it works for a lot of people, quite rightly, the, the message that you heard from somebody was, if a student is driving and this is a new skill that they're learning, it hasn't become automatic. They haven't mastered it yet, then that means that. All of their attention and focus is gonna be on what's in front and what they've got to do next. So you haven't got time to think about other things and process other things while trying out a new skill. So it is all about that at the side of the road. And I'm thinking about that young lady, you were just talking there who was thirsty. All she'll have been thinking about is. How thirsty she is, how uncomfortable she is. Having a dry mouth will be sending signals to her brain, telling her mouth's dry. Must be feeling stressed, must be feeling nervous. The stress signal will be going up. All the focus and attention will be on the discomfort and the stress signal won't be on the driving. And by, you know you've resolved that just with a little stop some water reset. Off we go again. Mm-hmm. And it seems to me, it seems so simple, doesn't it? You know, like, stop for coffee. Let's just have a drink. Let's have a pause. Let's do this. To me, that just seems so simple. And the benefits that Lydia's obviously got from that were massive. And you can, you can even tell that by the way she was explaining what she, what was happening, which is great. The thing that, the one thing that always sticks with me is. When Lydia would get in the car and she'd, you know, she'd come across as quite tired still. She had the energy. I mean, she always got in the car with a smile on her face and wanting to. Learn to drive, but there were the, the moments when in conversation, you know, I'd pick up on, maybe she's a bit drained today, so it would just be adapting the lesson to do something that would be less taxing, something a little bit more suitable for her at that time. Knocked roundabouts from the roundabouts and the slip. Residential or, or maneuvers, you know, where it's all slow and you can take your time and you don't have to make lots of decisions very quickly. Yeah. 'cause I swear we had like a, there was a solid like few weeks in a row that we just did like, 'cause the, the mood just wasn't there. Like the attention wasn't there. We just did like residential stuff and kind of went back over stuff and cemented that in. And then I remember there was one week where you were like, look, you like you just need to push yourself out, your comfort zone. And then we did the roundabouts like then, but it did like, like we just took some time out and which, and you're not wasted lessons because you're still getting used to the car. You're still like cementing in stuff that you already know. And I thought that worked really well. And I wish at the time, I wish at the time I'd have had the confident wheel and the fault logs and the, what's the zones one. Learning zone. Learning zones. Learning zones, because I think Lydia would've really benefited from those tools in the car. And that's, that's if I had to take, if I had to say what's my one negative experience of that, it would be that I didn't have those tools at the time because I think that they would've really benefited Lydia and that would've worked. Yes. How did you feel when you passed? Um, a little bit confused as to why I, I felt a bit surprised, so I felt like I just flu it. I'm not gonna lie. Um, but yeah, good. I kind of stuck to the same routes after that. I just did let the same route back because forwards like, and ended go any further. I felt good. It was weird, but I kind of felt like for a while before the test. I was thinking like, I just wanna nip to the shop. Do you know what I mean? Like, why do I have to have someone next to me? Can I just go down to like to the next village? So it's nice, felt ready for it. But yeah, definitely wasn't expecting it. I felt ready for it. Yeah. And also that, oh, I just wanna nip to the shop. Why do I need somebody next to me now? That is a fabulous sign that you are ready to go and pass your driving test, isn't it? When you've got that feeling that. I could just nip down. I could do, when about breaking the law, that's when you know you're ready. Yes. Yeah. Rephrase that. Able to do it, but just that feeling that, oh, if I was allowed to, I could do that. Yeah. And that just shows that actually you trusted in your driving ability to be able to do that trip once you passed your driving test. 'cause you felt that sort of like that you wanted to do it and you were ready to do it. And how have you built your confidence up since? Have you been increasing your roots, Lydia? Have you been doing more gradually pushing out of your comfort zone? Yeah, I'd say I like to do something a little different. Like, like I was saying, I kind of was doing the same route over and over and I was just getting a bit, 'cause I like driving in terms of, I find it really stimulating because that's why I wanted to do like a manual because I just like to do more. Do you know what I mean? Like, I, I just like to do a lot. So I found, yeah. So I just did lots of, I'd go a different route home or I'd do something that had like a roundabout or I'd go, I, when I did go on the A one the first time, you'll probably hear me mention the A one a million times because I'm just so pleased that I can get on it when I did the first time, I think it was a bit too soon. Um, and that kind of nagged me out a bit. So then I left it for a bit and then I did it after, but I found. I just feel like it just happened so gradually, like I get more confident over time and like this time, like I'll put the music on. Do you know what I mean? I'll put my own music on and not listen to the radio, and it was just like small things like that to just like step up like every few times. Yeah. Great. And is that just that taking your time with it, there is no rush, is that just gradually doing it and like you say, you, you maybe did the A one a little bit too early to start off with and then you left it a bit, did some other things and then came back to it. Yeah, and it is just a perfect example, isn't it, of how you build up gradually over time, a piece that suits you. Also watching other people then drive after. Things that I'd like queried or I'd be a bit like, oh, I wonder how I do that. Then you are more aware of what other people do when they drive a car and you're in the passenger seat. So I found a lot of, like my queries were kind of answered by then and, and I was saying to Kevin the other day that even just like waiting at a junction and waiting for a space, like I'm sitting there like sweating, thinking it's been like a solid, like three full minutes. I should have left by now. But then when I sit next to someone now in the passenger seat, I see that people will wait like five minutes. Like you are waiting for a gap. There's no time wrong or anything like that. You literally just need to find a gap and it's people waiting for as long as they need to because the gap needs to be there. But it's just stuff like that when that kind of like built my confidence up a lot. But again, it's something I feel like it, you just don't really notice it until you need to notice it. If you get what I mean. I, what I've heard from what you were saying there is post-test was exactly the same as what you did pre-test. Yeah. You know, if something was, do you know what? I'm just gonna hold back. Yeah. So if it came to the lesson a little bit, do you know what? I'll just hold back and then go for it again another day. And that's exactly what you've been doing post-test as well. So there is so much to be learned from lessons that you probably unconscious of that you've taken forward into your post-test as well. Which is, which is brilliant, isn't it? And that's the idea, isn't it? That you are learning your strategies. Yeah. In your lessons that are gonna help you when you are on your own. That's, you know, that's, that's what's what it's all about. That's what it's all about. Yeah. That's why I sing, uh, Kevin's praises literally all the time. And I'm like, not shy about it because, but even just a simple way of, if you feeling like a bit tired and you're feeling a bit sluggish, take the easy way home, even if it's a bit longer. Just stuff like small things like that that really help, um, to just, yeah, to just cater, cater it to what you need at the time, and that's fine. And again. Learning all the time. So E how do you feel you as an instructor now? I say as a instructor, you're not just a instructor, but how do you, yeah. How do you feel now sitting here and someone saying all this, knowing that you've been through the journey and they continued the journey on their own, but you are still part of that journey. How does that feel for you? I mean, it's humbling. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I am trying very hard not to blush at the moment, but, um, oh, the one thing I will say, just going back to when Lydia mentioned the A one and she's not done that weight, the section of a one that she's been driving on is I. You can separate a motor away in that section of the A one with a cat whisker, they're very similar fast, you know, fast moving slip roads. It's the only difference is they've got green signs rather than blue. Hmm. So I think Lydia, if she's can smash that part of the A one, she'd be able to, I would say smash most parts of the motorway network. I say maybe not the best term say most because Yeah, I that not literally Lydia smash it up. Please don't do that. But thank you. I appreciate that vote of confidence. Yes. Going back to your original, like I. I always strive to do the best I can and I know that I'm not perfect and we, I have days where at the end of a lesson I think, well, I could have done much better there with that person, but I. Don't beat myself up about it because I am a human just like we all are. And you know, Lydia has her good and bad days. I have my good and bad days, but I always try and bring my A game to lessons and when it. Does go well and when I feel like we've both really got something out of it, that's the satisfying part of the job. And to know that there are people that go on after test and they're still applying the stuff that they've not necessarily learned. Because I don't consider myself a teacher in the industry hear the phrase facilitator. 'cause a lot of what Lydia's done has come from her. I've just facilitated that to happen, so it doesn't surprise me. Um, from Lydia's point of view is she's going out and applying all this stuff post-test because what she was doing before test, it was all very like reassuring stuff. I never felt with her that I'm a bit worried about this and I'm a bit worried about how she'd cope with this because I knew that even if she'd come up against something. That was perhaps different or a little bit more challenging than something she's come up before. I always felt that she would be able to figure it out and she'd be able to work out what she needed to do. But not only that is try and keep calm throughout of all it. It's different. It's unusual, it's scary, but look at all these skills. I've got to be able to deal with it, and it certainly sounds like that's what she's been doing. Is there anything for either of you that we haven't talked about that you wanted to share on this episode? Is there anything that you wanted to cover that we haven't? Um, now for me it's just mainly the main thing that I wanted to put out there was that when you've got, I. People that want to learn to drive and just think it's too scary to do it, that it's not as scary as you might think it is. I'm not saying it's not scary, but what I'm saying is it's not as scary as you think it might be, and if you can find the right person and don't be afraid to do your homework, do your research, find somebody you think, and even if you find that person. And within the first couple of lessons, you don't feel comfortable and it doesn't feel right. Don't feel afraid to say thanks very much, but it's, you know, it's not for me and find someone else. 'cause I've had people come to me that have said they've tried other people and not got on. And I said, that's not necessarily because they're. Bad instructors. It's not because they don't know what they're doing, it's just sometimes one person doesn't gel with another person and it's neither of their fault. It's just that that doesn't work. And admitting that early and saying, look, I just don't feel comfortable with it. And finding somebody that you do, it's like, don't just keep throwing money at driving. If you don't feel comfortable, 'cause you've got to feel comfortable. Like Lydia said, she enjoyed her lessons and that's what it should be about you. It shouldn't be something that scares the living daylights out of you on a weekly basis. You should be able to come into lessons with a bit of fear. 'cause let's, let's face it, we're not gonna completely eliminate that. You are gonna come into it feeling a little bit overwhelmed with a bit of lack of confidence. But if you can find that person that can just crack through that wall and help you on that journey, and that's certainly where I, what I got from Lydia, is I felt like I'd. Not cracked it, I'd like kicked my foot and booted the door in. Uh, if we're gonna look at analogies, and it was, for me, it was an eyeopener. It was like, this feels good, this feels good that somebody is getting this out of it, that perhaps may not have done otherwise. And I've gone on to since Lydia and helped other people in very similar situations. They're the, they're the ones that I enjoy the most. You know, they're the ones that makes the job satisfying is that you're able to help somebody that found it hard to get onto that journey in the first place through whatever it is. Fear, lack of confidence, anxiety, worry, that's gonna be hard. So if it's gonna be hard, I'm not gonna do it. And, um, yeah, that, that's all. I want people to know that there are. People out there that won't shout at them, won't talk every time they do something wrong. And when things do go wrong, it's finding a solution to the problem rather than make it a problem. You know, nothing's, nothing's not able to be overcome. Love that. Love that. It's really nice isn't, yeah. And Lydia, have you got any words of wisdom out there for any other, anybody who's a learner or maybe a full license holder who's feeling nervous or anxious about driving or learning to drive? Um, I, I feel like it, it's just nice to like, for people to know that it's very normal to be super anxious and like super nervous about. Like we said earlier, just picking up the phone and stuff like that, that's so normal, but you just need to remember that your lessons like learning to drive is about you. It's not about you being there to like impress a driving instructor or to party test. It's about like you need to find the right person, as Kevin's saying for for you. So it's almost like you are auditioning the driving in instructions when you're going in. And you shouldn't be ashamed, like you said, to then say, actually this isn't right for me. And I know it's hard these days because it's hard to get a driving instructor these days. So like few and far between. So you kind of feel like, oh my God, this is the one that I've got, so I have to stick with it. Well, no really, because it, like in the end of the day, you are investing in your future. You're gonna be such a more confident person. And if you take like. I don't know, 80 hours with someone who doesn't work for you. Like that's just so not worth it. It's a lot of time. It's a lot of effort. It's a lot of like, like probably criticism in your own head for not doing it properly, whereas you could just, just hang on, like wait to find someone for you and that's totally fine. Like take the pressure away from just like. Learning. It's not about passing a test, it's about learning to drive. So it's just to like enjoy the journey because I feel like everyone is so focused on like, oh, how many hours did it take you to learn to drive? And like everyone's like, oh my God, I only did it in like 10 hours. But everyone's so focused on that. But that's so superficial. It's just not about that. It's about the drive that you become at the end of it. And I think that if people just. See it as more of a journey rather than as like a goal, as like just an achievement to tick off. It takes a lot of the pressure out of it and it kind of means you can start tiny and you don't have, it's not like when you go and learn to drive and you book that first lesson, like that's it. You are, you need to start learning to party test. It's like, that is like step one, that's like little baby step and then you can move on and then you can go up. Um, and it's more of like a gradual slope. Day instructor turns around and says. I know it's difficult because they are also expensive and stuff like that and, but I just think if you are underconfident, it's so worth the investment to one, like shop around for someone that works, and two, to just take your time, like it will cost a bit more. And that's just like across, you're gonna have to bet, unfortunately. Like I know that sounds really bad, but it's such. It's worth the investment and even if you space the lessons out and you just do it over a longer time, but maybe like just an hour or something like that instead, it's just worth it. Like time doesn't really mean anything. When it's learning to drive, it's different for everyone. That's so nice. Yeah. Isn't it? That is. I have no idea what I, in a weeks talking, it was beautiful. Yeah. I just wish. And I'm hoping, I mean, this is why we do the podcast because it, it gets to so many people that we don't know about. And I think yeah, if people could just listen to what you've just said. Yeah. Um, however long this podcast is, but even just this last five, 10 minutes you've been talking. Yeah, I just think that's gold. It's gold dust that you just mentioned there. It's absolutely brilliant and it's beautiful to hear and see you say it with a smile on your face and yeah, it's great. It was really good. Yeah, I can't say now you've outdone me. I can't say anymore. I was just thinking is we must remember. How can people find you if they want to? 'cause obviously you don't cover the whole of the uk, but if people wanna get in touch with you, where are you? How do they find you? Everybody. Everybody needs a kev, by the way. I just thought I've mentioned that. Yeah. I say this all the time to people. I'm literally like, I don't know how. Look, I think I even wrote it in the review on your Facebook page. I was like. Everyone needs a Kevin. Like I just can't even describe it. Blessed that I got one by accident, so thank you. I literally said that to everyone. Like one day you'll find Kevin on the podcast. It's like a London bus, isn't it? Like you wait for. But where can people find me? So, um, I'm on Facebook, Instagram, I'm on TikTok, but I don't really do a lot on TikTok. I don't think that's kind of my jam. Although people say to me, you gotta do videos. 'cause that's, that's what the younger generation want these days. But yeah. Um, at drive links, so that's D-R-I-V-E-L-I-N-C. S 'cause I'm in Lincoln Shear based in Lincoln, in Lincoln Shear. Um, I've also got a website drive links.uk that's got lots of information about the confident driving anxiety and stress and all that stuff. All that goodness is in there as well. So, yeah, that's where you'll find me. Can, sorry, can you say. Yesterday when you were talking and you said that there was that person who called you up and you could tell they were really nervous and they were like stuttering. And then on the phone, on the other side of the phone, you were thinking, keep talking because this is, this is the kind of thing that I want. Do you know what I mean? I can't remember if you remember saying anything. Yeah, so, so I'd had a phone call from someone and they were so nervous even just ringing up that I could barely kind of understand what they were saying 'cause they were stuttering and falling over their words and apologizing. And I just said, Nope. Just carry on and just 'cause it, it's, they're the sort of people I want to engage with. You know, you, you get people ring up and a lot of the time you get how much of your lessons. Uh, we all get that, and that's just the nature of the job. But I want to be able to let them be themselves first. So the ones that ring up and they say, hello, is that Kevin or Hello? Is that Drive links? And I'm like. That's me. And then there's a silence. It's anything I can do to help. And they'll start to talk and it will be mumbling and falling over their words. And they're like, like, I'm really sorry. And I'm like, Nope, just take your time. Because in my head I'm like the, this is the person I want to talk to. And I want to give them the time just to say what they've gotta say. And, uh, yeah. So I kind of know, I mean, I don't take calls very often. Obviously we're driving instructors, so we spend most of our time in the car. So, you know, I do prefer a message or an email or, or a, an inquiry through the website. But when I do call and talk to people on the, the rare occasions when I actually am there to answer the phone, you know, I know. As soon as somebody's on there and they sound really nervous and they're stumbling over their words, I just say, take your time and just sit there and listen. Listen to what they've got to say or what they want to know. And even like I said to Lydia, I'm just sitting there going, I'm happy to sit here listening to it. I, I'm, that's the sort of person I wanna work with, you know? That's so sweet. I just think that was so nice. Yeah. Straight off the bat. And they're probably like so embarrassed and stuff like that, but straight off the bat you're thinking absolutely. Like this is exactly the kind of person that you wanna work with. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. They're so nice. Yeah. That's amazing. And there's not many people like that. No. You know, that's, that's one of the, it's genuine people that we know. You see, we, we are big him up now as well. Yeah. But he's very genuine in what he does and he, he just wants to help people. There you go. We'll keep that bit in as well. You, we'll keep that bit in. So I think that probably just about brings us to a close. So guys, thank you so much for your time this evening to record this episode. I'm sure that it will be really helpful for other people listening out there to, to have that motivation to either get started or to find the right person for them. Find a Kev. Find A, find a. But yeah, everyone needs a. So that brings us to the end of season nine. We know that this season has been a little bit different, but we hope that you've enjoyed it and while we take a season break, we'll be publishing some shorts from old podcast episodes. So we are leaving you with some hints and tips to keep going with, And so until next time, have a great day. Whatever you're doing. Thank you for listening. Find out about the different ways that you can work with us on our website www. confidentdrivers. co. uk and begin to transform the way you feel about driving.