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Hey, it's Rob and Kennedy.

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Hello Today on the Email Marketing Show we're talking about how nurturing your email list is a big old waste of time.

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At times I've ended the podcast let's just wrap it all up there still have been lovely. It's been a lovely couple years so it was an email I'm gonna show there's before we get into this bizarre and controversial conversation about nurturing, we've got something that we'd really love to give you completely for free. It's gonna help you with everything you do with email. And that's by increasing the number of people who click on the links in your emails. So we've put together 12 really creative ways to get more clicks on every email that you ever send. In this new download. We're calling click tricks. It's yours totally free as a listener to this podcast today here right now. When you go to email marketing heroes.com forward slash tricks.

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He is 50% hoarder and 50% throwing things away ruthlessly. It's comedy hypnotist Robert temple,

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and he is responsible for naming things. It's psychological mind reader Kennedy

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okay, what's happening with you holding and throwing things away?

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So I go through big phases of each you know, like when you go through phases What's even more perfect just means you're dirty and I'm able to get your tidy you know, so for example, I was looking on top of water prisons two things. I realised there are real response to the public lands from the dead like to happiness days where I used to go around with a bunch beers and sell them once. Otherwise, so I go through the expense of like, not really got the board and stuff

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and I don't know why you're responsible for naming things because you got a puppy wanting to call it Dante. That's a good name, by the way. By the way, you shouldn't be responsible for naming anything.

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I think everybody tends to love the names of our programmes and our our campaigns. I mean, everyone's like article name, but nothing important like dogs and children. Oh, no.

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I mean, obviously if I had a chance to call it like trivial, meaningless things like campaigns. Yeah, just

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keep up with that. That's fine. I know every week on the show, where should we show you how to make more sales and earn more money from your email subscribers? We're talking about email marketing, strategy, psychology tactics, and we share what's working right now to make more sales online, making you the email marketing hero of your business with a brand new episode. Every email marketing Wednesday, make sure you hit the subscribe button on your podcast player.

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And we would love to have you leave us a little review as well. If you'd be so kind. It really does help a lot more than you'd think if you've got a podcast you'll know this if you haven't got this. You've heard it before. And it's not something we say to fill time. Dead Time on the air on these podcasts. Like it really doesn't make a difference. So I'm hop on to iTunes. What's it called? Apple thing? podcast, or Spotify? Who haven't changed the name and just leave a little review with a five star rating it does mean the world it makes us feel good and it means more people get to see this amazing stuff. Do they do they get their children? Rob we've got a sponsor for the podcast this week. We have it's posted on my wall post about what what is post on my wall do basically they combined email marketing with graphic and video design and social media scheduling all in one place. What a

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labour like like if MailChimp and Canva and later all got together got down to it and how to be exactly that. Lovely. That sounds amazing. And they're sponsored this episode of The Email Marketing Show. So definitely go and check them out. Go to email marketing, heroes.com/poster my wall, email marketing heroes.com/poster my wall, check it out. And remember, by supporting our sponsors, you're also supporting the show. So let's get into first of all what we actually mean by nurturing your list. I want to just make sure on the same definition, a lot of people think that one of the things you've got to do is get people into your email list and then spend the next 20 years sort of making them think that maybe one day they might buy from you because you've been such a nice person for ever such a long time. And that's that's a lot of people's entire email marketing strategy.

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I mean, it's hoping, hoping and praying and wishing. So we don't want to do that instal feel sometimes so I'm wondering you talked about a lot is, is that people think that you need more marketing. And because they're sending an email, however often delivers every day, even if three times a day or once a week or once a month. If you're doing the marketing, just doing the things I mean, you got a strategy. I think here's the thing, like nurturing for us is not turning subscribers into customers, which is what lots of people think it is. Lots of people think their nurture sequences, this long term sequence of a million emails that's designed to get people to buy either live or automated. But the way I like to think about it is this right? Imagine I've been out somewhere for the day maybe being a candidate and we've been working on the business or something and and we also end up having a laugh and taking too long anyway, so I text Rachel and say hey, listen, I'm on my way home. Let's get a Chinese for dinner, order in and then we'll I'll be home at whatever time and then she orders it in arrives. I've got back I'm still stuck in traffic picture the seat right the doorbell rings, Alfie goes mental because somebody that door, Rachel opens the door, she gets the Chinese food and she brings it in and I have nowhere to be seen. So she rings me says where are you? So I'm still half an hour away, which is great. I'll take your food. I'll put it in the oven. I'll keep it wanting to get back. Now listen, that food is probably going to be fine. By the time I get home half an hour then it's probably gonna be fine if I get stuck in traffic and I will late but if I get stopped and break down and have to walk home and it takes us five days to get home it's not gonna be good by the time I get home is it right and we've seen nurturing is a bit like honestly taking your subscribers and put them in the oven keep them warm until something gets back. You're not trying to cook them. You're not trying to blast the shit out of them. Just pop in the oven. Just to keep just keep them off. You've got

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like warming you want it if you're one of those middle class people the warming cupboard. So it's like a warming cupboard. Yeah, that's the thing though.

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Is that what they call the microwave and crumbling? No, I

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need you to add a warming cupboard in there open Northumberland Easter. Yeah, but the big Sunday dinner and because it's like a gazillion things on a Sunday lunch. Is like a rooster. She put things in the warming cupboard.

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Oh, there you go. Anyway, so you don't want to put them in the oven and just keep them warm. That's cold, we're not nurture is this, this sort of very gentle will keep them warm. We'll keep in touch with that. That's what happens after you've tried to sell them and it hasn't really worked. So again, that's what we mean by nurturing. There's really hardcore sales campaigns that are designed again to buy and then there's lovely long term nurture. Now that's not to say that you do this huge handbrake turn from one into the other, they should glide from one into the other and back again, quite quite simply. So like what happens in our business and we'll talk a bit more about it but somebody joins our list. They go through our email engine is designed to sell them stuff because it's got sales campaigns in various different descriptions. If they don't buy which most people who ever buy do by the way, but if they get to the end of that and they haven't bought they go into what we think of as our closest thing to our long term nurture, which is our day to day emails, but they won't particularly notice. They'll just feel like an offer has come to an end and now they're in this nurturing thing. And you know, once every four or 568 weeks we'll do a sales campaign like sort of live to the list. And again, they'll go from what from daily emails into that beginning

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Beans. And sometimes they're just a sort of ongoing newsletter. But you don't want it to be this huge difference between the feeling of the two. I think the important to say here is when we looked at the data in our, in our business, we found that the people who join our email list well think about why people join your email list. They don't have email lists, because they've got a problem that they want to develop it so they want to do, and they want to learn something from you about that thing. So it's no surprise that we found that if someone doesn't buy our thing from us within the first 60 days beyond our email is the first two months, then their chance of ever buying from us plummets to like, less than 5% chance of anybody ever buying from us. If the first exists, it makes perfect sense. Because within 60 days, if someone's got a problem, somebody wants to learn how to lose weight, how to train their dog to lose the dog training. Example, if they join your email list on a lead magnet for a lead magnet about training their dog within 60 days. Either they've bought your thing to fix the problem with a dog or they bought somebody else's thing to help them train their dog. That's the only two things about because it's not a non urgent thing they want to sell the wrong that's why they're on your email. So so by thinking of it as long term nurture only notice 90 days 180 days a year or something with those people who are doing that are missing out on the time when their subscribers need to be told about the about the product about the service about your main core thing. So that's why in case you're not already familiar, let's quickly run through. Once we joined our email list, the first thing to go through is this score email engine, which is a bunch of five different email campaigns. Each campaign made up of several emails between six and I think 25 is the longest one will take 60 days to go through that. And each phase of that each campaign is a different phase of the score range of appeals to a different type of buyer, a different type of subscriber, your first one appeals to your most urgent buyer who's got the most who's got the most urgent pain who wants to sell this thing immediately. And that's what we call a sales lead campaign say hey, here's my thing. Then we go to the content lead campaign with your buyer for them. And that's where we lead with content. We do education which turns into an offer it's not content for content sake, it's content that leads to an offer so it's not distracting people or adding more overload because I believe that right, then we go into an objection handling campaign at the O of score sales. S see content. Oh, is objection handling people some people can't buy right because I've got an objection they don't believe in that. They don't believe it will work. For them because then the all of score is risk reversal or risk removal. That's where you're making sure that they don't have as much risk. The reason they can't die is because they believe the risk of investing is is way higher than their ability or their chances that they will be able to get the result whether they believe it's not very good. Or it's because they don't believe in themselves. And then finally, it's engagement. E for engagement last last level of score ie engagement once somebody comes out with all of that, and they've been given the best chance to buy the best opportunity to buy no matter what's good about this as the as the business owners, we've all got this installed to the score engine is we know everybody who joins our email list whenever they join day or night weekend weekday in the summer in the winter, and it doesn't matter what you're doing your holiday you're in the office, you're in a meeting, you're recording podcasts, you doing cold doesn't matter. Anybody who's joining your email list is going through sales emails and content, emails and objection handling emails and rescue as long as they're engaged. They're going through this thing getting the best out of it. It's only after that, that we have realised that the only reason they believe that they haven't bought they haven't invested on a book or they haven't purchased. The only reason is because of

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the timing. The timing isn't right. And it's only then we're gonna go into long term nurture. It's only then we're going to start actually picking up that last 5% of people. So let's talk about what that actually looks like then that is your day to day email newsletter and we say day to day because it might be daily, it might be three times a week, it might be a bit more random than that. It might be once a week. It's whatever it's going to be and we've done tonnes of episodes talking about what we think about frequency with email in our business that's daily. So every single day people receive an email at some point randomly across the course of the day from us and again, the job of those emails is to build this relationship further. That is to nurture the person but remember the difference go back to the oven analogy. The job of that email is to keep them warm. One of the major benefits that daily emails have is sure they make sales we make sales every week from our daily emails from a combination of the super signature that's in our emails to the links that are in our emails generally got the proper calls to action, but the other part of it is to keep those people warm until the next time we do a big promotion. So for example, every year in about June currently, we do our online event inbox. And that only happens once a year so we can only talk about it in the lead up to that event. We only talk about it for the two weeks before the event begins. But we need to we do need to do something to truly nurture those people. Between them joining our list and buying or not buying and inbox coming around. If we just left them to go cold and we didn't put them in the oven. We just left them on the kitchen bench by the time inbox comes around, they're not paying attention. They've gone off. They don't taste all that great. It's gonna be handled. So that is why keeping them warm comes into play. It's popping in and just checking on them every two minutes. That's what we're looking to do with this. That's what nurture actually means, like the real definition of the word nurture. So that's how we apply it to email again, they come into our business, they go through a whole email engine loads of people by loads of people don't the ones who do whether they do or they don't. They now go into this nurture bit where we send them emails and whatnot. And then when we do have something coming up like an event or challenge or summit or webinars something where we want them to take massive action. We've kept them warm. We haven't left them outside to go cold, where suddenly we're going to turn up in their inbox again they go Whew. So we've got the best of both worlds. We get sales really fast, which is what any business needs to survive. And then we're able to take all of those subscribers and customers and maintain that relationship. Keep them warm. So how do we do that? We do that with all the things we talked about storytelling, giving them insight into your day to day life. People literally, I know it sounds loopy, but people literally want to know what it is that happened to you today. What is it you did yesterday? What was it somebody said to you yesterday? What are some what was some largely innocuous random thing that happened to you yesterday and what can they learn and benefit from that in the same way that we start every podcast episode with a little random fact about ourselves. People seem to care and take attention and pay attention to what it is that we're talking about that stuff. Again, this all fixes the timing issue too. So if the reason why somebody didn't buy from you when they were going through that email engine is literally just because the timing is so wildly wrong, because they're going through a major change in their life. They are you know, having a baby getting married, they're doing something but they just can't or, you know, if we sell email marketing stuff, and somebody doesn't want to do email marketing right now, or they don't have an email list right now, there's only a certain amount of marketing that can fix that. And if it just won't get it as a high enough priority for them yet, that's fine. We're just gonna keep showing up and being there for them, giving them interesting insights and tidbits until it's time for them to buy. And then finally, you're looking for a penny drop moment. Through this podcast through our Facebook group email marketing show through our daily email newsletter through everything that we do. We're constantly just teaching the same thing from different angles. Obviously, there's lots of things that we teach within the same thing, but there's we're basically just continually saying the same things over and over again until there's a penny drop moment for each person who goes oh my god, I suddenly get it. So we've never explained this nurturer thing as being a bit like putting subscribers in the oven just to keep them warm until somebody gets home. And we probably never will again, I mean, because it sounds terrifying. But there'll be loads of people who listen to this episode and go, Oh my god, I suddenly get it now, because we've explained it that way. Whereas on next week's episode, or the week after we'll explain something else we've explained before, but we'll explain that with a different analogy or a different story and somebody else will get that. It just takes the right analogy, the right story, the right metaphor, the right lesson, the right book, for you to suddenly have this penny drop moment and go oh my god, I suddenly get it now. I'm fully on board. I totally get it.

I know what I'm talking about. I can I now should come and join this membership or I should buy this thing or I should register for this webinar. Because suddenly I now know that this is for me, and it is relevant. And it does make sense, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be well, it's gonna make sense and that's the thing. So make sure that you don't make some of the common mistakes that people seem to deal with as long term nurture thing, right. That is first of all, seeing it as long term right? See it as a thing that that people will join your email list and you're going to try and engage them over over the long term. You're not right, we have to have to remember that this nurturing thing happens after we've done our best foot forward and show people the best opportunity to buy what it is that we do. Next thing want to do is make sure that in our long term when we are doing that long term nurture thing to fix the timing issue, as I've just said, want to make sure we are mentioning the thing we sell I'm always amazed. How many calls email newsletters I get, who don't have, it'll be telling me the updates and what they'll be working on. It will work on a really exciting thing. They don't tell me what the thing is. They don't tell you how I can I can register my interest or indicate my interest and they don't tell me anything. I can go and buy. Right? So just make sure you make sure you have that in making sure there is some kind of call to action in every email because even if you're selling something you want to make sure you're constantly training your email subscribers to click the links in your emails. If you don't, you're training them out of doing nothing right? And make sure not just like randomly send them random links or random stuff. Really, really, really important. Okay, just don't drone on and be boring. But once we got to just make sure that the whole time with our long term nurture, we are telling people new fresh ways of understanding what it is that you're going to do for people what's the transformation you can give that person you might put off five key framework features advantages, benefits transformation, right? We've got to remember that everyone wants a slightly different nuanced transformation and until they hear the right words which fit with the little with with a gap in their mind that they're trying to fix and trying to fill, but nobody takes action. So the long term nurture is about showing up somebody know that they are who you are. So when they're hunting around for the person who solves that problem, you're right there until their inbox and so that they understand from different angles at some point there's a penny drop moment where they go that's why I get it. No, I get it now, you'll be amazed at how long it takes. We've said things on recent Web classes we've been delivering to people who are extremely experienced marketers, very successful, extremely smart. And we said you know the same things what we've been saying for a long time, but we said in a brand new way, which we were really pleased with and then we're even more pleased with this person messages to say, Oh my God, you've been saying this for years. And it's only when you said it in this particular way that it clicked exactly how we're going to do it and how it fixes a huge problem we've been having for years in our business and that was amazing moment to have validation that it is about showing up with the same message in different ways. That's what you get to do in this clinical people in new and new ways. So think of it think about your nurturing is that really what happens to keep on top of people's minds and saying you say the same things in new ways. After and only after we've,

we've said we've given people the best opportunity to buy through our main score. Email engine. Yeah, so here we go. There we go. Awesome. Any final thoughts or any wrap up words? Rob? No, I just think this is a really interesting, important conversation and

it's a huge game changing distinction between how most people lots of people do email marketing

versus how sales driven email marketing is done like sales intensified optimised. Email marketing needs to Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's get into this week's subject line of the week subject line of the week, fluffy got Rob. This one is a sneak peek in brackets at the slides. And it was a webinar we had coming up. We'd love to do this in any sort

of webinar type of campaign is to sort of grab a screenshot or a photograph of an interesting slide from the presentation, throw it into an email, and then just lead with answering like, Hey, listen, I have a little sneak peek at what I'm working on. People love to look at that stuff. I thought you'd put like a new play park in your back garden. There's a picture of you next to the slides just next to the swings. Sneak peek at the swings doesn't have the same. It has a very different connotation. This swings all right and it has big subject line of the week subject line of the week. So listen, if you haven't already, please we would love it. We're collecting reviews of the show over on Apple podcasts. So if you've not yet or you're not sure if you have made a review, after review, it takes like two minutes, maybe less 30 seconds to leave a review of the show over on Apple podcasts. It would be great to read your thoughts. It helps Apple see that

we're doing a good job here and spread the word about the show. And yeah, it'd be really good to have our podcast Apple podcast and leave us a review. That will be absolutely lovely of you we'll see you next week. We'll do it all again with a brand new episode of the show. Goodbye