Wendy:

And welcome to Hey, Boomer.

Wendy:

There's a show for those of us who believe that we are never.

Elly:

Too old to.

Wendy:

Set a new goal or a dream.

Wendy:

A new dream. My name is Wendy Green, and I am your host for Hey, Boomer.

Wendy:

And with Hey, Boomer, I am on a mission to support and inspire older adults.

Wendy:

As we look for new beginnings, confront endings and transitions, and evolve into who

Wendy:

we want to be.

Wendy:

And how do I do that?

Wendy:

I do that by bringing amazing guests onto the Jay Boomer show.

Wendy:

And I do that by offering coaching, transition coaching to people who are looking

Wendy:

for new beginnings and confronting endings and just want a little help along the way.

Wendy:

So my amazing guest for this week is Elly Katz.

Wendy:

She is the founder and executive director of Sages and Seekers.

Wendy:

This is a nonprofit with a mission to develop empathy while combating social

Wendy:

isolation and ageism.

Wendy:

The Sages and Seekers eight week intergenerational program has changed the

Wendy:

lives of thousands of older adults and the younger adult people that they are working

Wendy:

with. I believe, and I venture to say that Elie probably believes the same thing, that

Wendy:

there are more similarities between the generations than we recognize.

Wendy:

The problem is that we rarely speak to people from different generations and through

Wendy:

sages and seekers, they build conversations and and opportunities for the older adults

Wendy:

and the younger adults to come together in conversation.

Wendy:

Before I introduce her to you, I just want to tell you about two things.

Wendy:

One is about my good friend Christine Baumgartner, and this is for any of my single

Wendy:

listeners who may be frustrated with online dating, meeting the wrong people, or just

Wendy:

frustrated with dating in general.

Wendy:

So Christine is a dating coach and a fellow podcaster for a show called Let's Talk

Wendy:

Dating. She has helped me come to terms with my dating life and how I'm looking for

Wendy:

somebody. Do I want to find somebody?

Wendy:

All of those questions.

Wendy:

And I would recommend her to any of you that are struggling in those areas.

Wendy:

You can check her out.

Wendy:

Her website is the perfect catch dot com.

Elly:

Don't you.

Wendy:

Love that? The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is the coaching that I do.

Wendy:

So let me encourage you to check out the coaching on the Hey boomer dot biz slash

Wendy:

coaching page.

Wendy:

It's a six week program and also the the vitality assessment that you can get from the

Wendy:

Hey Boomer Dot Biz homepage.

Wendy:

So let me encourage you to do those two things.

Wendy:

In fact, you can check them out now while you are listening to us.

Wendy:

And oh my goodness, we have so many wonderful visitors so far.

Wendy:

All right. I am going to bring on my new exciting guest.

Wendy:

I'm very excited to introduce you to Ella Katz.

Wendy:

I'm just so excited to have you on because I've been looking into sages and seekers.

Wendy:

I know some people that are part of it and I can't wait to share your story with

Wendy:

everybody. So I'd like to start with like what inspires you?

Wendy:

It's like 13 years since you started this, right?

Elly:

Yes. Yeah.

Wendy:

So how what inspired you?

Wendy:

How did you get started in this?

Elly:

Well, it's it's actually a very interesting story.

Elly:

I was driving my 16 year old to school listening to NPR, and I heard this

Elly:

gentleman speaking about the state of the planet, and he used the word apocalypse.

Elly:

And I thought, wait, wait, wait, I have a 16 year old.

Elly:

We can't be at an Apocalypse now with with the world.

Elly:

And then, you know, I was white knuckling the steering wheel, you know, what can I do?

Elly:

And he had what I guess you would call a call to action.

Elly:

He said that he felt if everyone on the planet chose something that they were

Elly:

passionate about and did something in that arena that we could turn the world around.

Elly:

And so I remember thinking I was a graphic designer at the time, and that's what I

Elly:

studied in school and had done all my life.

Elly:

And so I thought I.

Elly:

Well, I hope other people are listening because I don't really have the time for

Elly:

this. And then as I dropped my son off and I drove home, I started to think, well, you

Elly:

know, he said, What are you passionate about?

Elly:

And I loved ever since I was young, I loved talking to older adults.

Elly:

I felt they were underutilized and disrespected.

Elly:

And it just always was upsetting to me because I thought they were fantastic human

Elly:

beings. So I'm driving and I get home and I thought to myself, Yeah, I could do something

Elly:

with older adults.

Elly:

And so I went into my office, I sat down, I thought about what do older adults want?

Elly:

And I thought, well, they don't want to be 16 again because I don't want to be 16 again.

Elly:

Right. But that energy, that youthful vitality that young people bring into a room

Elly:

is just so life affirming and engaging.

Elly:

And so I thought maybe I could do something with older adults and teens and I knew

Elly:

nothing about education.

Elly:

I'm not a gerontologist, didn't know much about older adults.

Elly:

And so I just decided I'm going to go to some schools, see if I can get some kids

Elly:

interested in meeting older adults, and I'm going to go to some senior centers and see

Elly:

what they say.

Elly:

And I finally found some in the same town that would match and that said, yes, let's do

Elly:

it. And I'm not kidding you, Wendy.

Elly:

It was amazing, the very first meeting.

Elly:

I mean, I said to myself, I don't care if the kids don't like it, they're going to sit

Elly:

there and do a mitzvah because, you know, they need to show respect and and appreciate

Elly:

this other generation mitzvah.

Wendy:

Would you describe that for us?

Wendy:

People who don't know, Och.

Elly:

Mitzvah is a good deed.

Wendy:

A good deed.

Elly:

So I think it's Yiddish.

Wendy:

It is.

Elly:

Yeah. And so I just thought, you know, that they should do something wonderful.

Elly:

But what was fascinating to me is that they were enjoying themselves.

Elly:

These 17 and 16 year olds were laughing and asking questions.

Elly:

And my husband was doing documentary filming at the time, and I called him and I said, You

Elly:

have to bring your camera down to the senior center, because this is this is weird.

Elly:

These kids really like it.

Elly:

And so from that moment on, I was hooked to, you know, to continue to bring generations

Elly:

together. And now, of course, we're in our 13th year.

Wendy:

And wow.

Elly:

It is fascinating and wonderful every single time.

Wendy:

Wow, wow, wow.

Wendy:

So so this man on NPR telling this story inspired you and you know how many of us hear

Wendy:

things like that and go, yeah, that would be good, but you did it.

Wendy:

I mean, what kind of fears did you face when you said, Well, I'm going to do this?

Elly:

That's a great question.

Elly:

You know, Wendy, I'm a pretty fearful person.

Elly:

I have a lot of, you know, moments of anxiety and fear.

Elly:

But I.

Elly:

Think. I really felt like it was something that needed to happen.

Elly:

And so I had more determination than I did fear.

Elly:

You know, it became sort of like when you go fishing and you throw out the line and you

Elly:

want to see what you get back.

Elly:

I just. Called, you know, as many people as I could.

Elly:

And what was fascinating to me, I was very lucky because when I started Sages, the

Elly:

Seekers, I lived in Boston and and the schools there are very.

Elly:

Competitive and they're very good.

Elly:

And I couldn't get into public schools at the start.

Elly:

So I went to the best private school and I was very lucky they signed on.

Elly:

We're doing an after school program.

Elly:

And so I thought, I'm going to go to another private school and I'm going to tell them

Elly:

what we do. And I'm going to say, Look, this school is doing it after school.

Elly:

Why don't you put it into your English department and they put it into the English

Elly:

department. Then I went to another private school and said, you know, these guys that

Elly:

they're really interested in this social emotional learning program and, you know,

Elly:

maybe you could put it in your history department.

Elly:

And so that's the way I sort of made my way through the school system to build up a

Elly:

reputation. It was exciting, way more exciting than graphic design, I'll just say

Elly:

that.

Wendy:

And then the senior center supported you, too, so you used the word social emotional

Wendy:

learning. Now, I. I would guess you didn't even know what that meant when you started.

Wendy:

You're right. There's been a huge learning curve for you.

Wendy:

So. So what do the kids and the adults get out of this program?

Elly:

Great question. Well, you know, I really appreciate that you asked me did I know what

Elly:

that meant And and I didn't.

Elly:

And that was also a wonderful piece is that I was learning so much about.

Elly:

The education system, you know, and what was important and what was being left out.

Elly:

And there is I mean, and especially now that 13 years ago the smartphone did not have the

Elly:

grip that it has now.

Elly:

Right. And so now empathy I mean, Obama did a speech at Dartmouth, I think, before I

Elly:

started Sages and Seekers and he before he was president.

Elly:

And he said that he felt the empathy deficit in the United States was worse than the

Elly:

fiscal deficit.

Elly:

And I started to do some research and I found out that since 2010 there has

Elly:

been huge decline in empathy for college students.

Elly:

And can you imagine now with the smartphone where they can avoid emotions and I've talked

Elly:

to students now and they say, oh, well, we break up.

Elly:

On a text message because we don't want to feel the emotions of the other person.

Elly:

Let me start with the the value for the older adults enrolling and participating in

Elly:

eight weeks. The way we have designed our program allows an older adult to do two

Elly:

things that they don't have the opportunity necessarily to do.

Elly:

One is to have a life review, which Robert Butler, who's a psychologist who's no longer

Elly:

with us. He said that he felt every older adult should do a life review before they

Elly:

pass. And I didn't really understand it.

Elly:

I thought, oh, yeah, okay, whatever.

Elly:

But when I watched what happened to some of the seniors, you know, the sages, I

Elly:

totally understood that they were coming up to me afterwards and saying, I had an

Elly:

epiphany. You know, I thought I used to, you know, hate this.

Elly:

And I looked at high school in a negative way.

Elly:

And now, you know, their perspective is different.

Elly:

They're not in that moment.

Elly:

And so when you look at something from a different time, you are able to understand

Elly:

the value and not just the, you know, the pain of it.

Elly:

And and my favorite was I had a woman who stopped me.

Elly:

She was leaving on her walker and she said, Ellie, I had an epiphany.

Elly:

And I said, Scoot over, Peggy, I need to hear this.

Elly:

And she said, All my life I thought my father hated me until I told my student the

Elly:

story of growing up in Germany during the war.

Elly:

And I realized that my father had to put food on the table for five people, and that's

Elly:

why he never paid any attention to me.

Elly:

And he was a composer.

Elly:

And so she understood something.

Elly:

And she was, I would say, mildly depressed.

Elly:

And she never came in and did this after that, You know, every week she would come in

Elly:

like that. But following that, she was really quite, I think, freed.

Elly:

And so I saw that happen for many, many sages and also the ability to do general

Elly:

tivity, which is to hand your hard earned lessons to another generation is really quite

Elly:

important. And so the the sages are able to do that and it gives them value and also

Elly:

relevance because they're sharing information with someone who's a teenager.

Elly:

So they're learning and they feel more relevant for the teens.

Elly:

I'll tell you, it's very different since COVID, before COVID, you know, it it is an

Elly:

incredible tool for developing empathy.

Elly:

I don't know if you know this, but you cannot teach empathy.

Elly:

It's something that has to be developed or, you know, like experienced.

Elly:

And so that's what happens when they sit with an older adult.

Elly:

And so I thought, well, you know, that's that's great.

Elly:

This is social emotional learning and and this big value that they're getting.

Elly:

But what.

Elly:

I learned during COVID when the students would enroll program after program, they

Elly:

would finish one, and then the next one that started two weeks later, they enrolled again.

Elly:

Oh, yeah.

Elly:

And I truly understood and I think you even talked about conversation as to quote you,

Elly:

conversation is a path to building empathy between individuals.

Elly:

And I think the conversation, the fact that they could actually because we were on Zoom

Elly:

at that time, that they could look into someone's eyes and someone was listening to

Elly:

them, someone was hearing them, someone was agreeing with their pain and their suffering.

Elly:

And that was a whole new piece that I recognized before that in person in the

Elly:

in-person program was it's, you know, it's always evident that the kids are able to

Elly:

learn that you can live through failure.

Elly:

And, you know, because we have sages that are, you know, 70 to 80, they may have failed

Elly:

into businesses and.

Wendy:

That.

Elly:

The amount of wisdom that they share is phenomenal.

Elly:

So it's what I like to say is sages and seekers is not a mentoring program.

Elly:

Nobody has power over the other person.

Elly:

They come in with equal information to share and in sharing they each grow and they begin

Elly:

to shatter the stereotypes of ageism both ways.

Elly:

The systems come in or say to me, Why would I sign up for that when my own grandkids

Elly:

don't want to talk to me?

Elly:

It's it's amazing to sit with somebody from another generation And some of the stories

Elly:

that, you know, each of them tell are just wonderful, fabulous, moving, funny,

Elly:

everything.

Wendy:

Yeah, I bet.

Wendy:

So. So you mentioned the life review and all.

Wendy:

Is that part of the eight week training that you do or the eight?

Wendy:

I mean, how does that work?

Elly:

Well, when people enroll in sages and seekers, the only orientation or onboarding

Elly:

that we give them is just the rules.

Elly:

You know, like you, you can talk about anything you want if both of you are in

Elly:

agreement. And so I think the best way to describe it is during the eight weeks we have

Elly:

a curriculum, but it's very loose.

Elly:

What we're doing is talking about what it is to be human.

Elly:

The sages share their stories.

Elly:

Some of them, you know, are funny, some of them are very moving.

Elly:

And so the students are learning, you know, they're they're learning how to open up as

Elly:

well. And I think that really, you know, we don't say, well, this week we're going to

Elly:

talk about social media or this week we're going to talk about, you know, how difficult

Elly:

it is to be to not be seen when you're older.

Elly:

We don't do that.

Elly:

And we really just allow them to come together and talk about what's on their mind.

Elly:

And an example is when we were in Boston and the week after the.

Elly:

The marathon bombing.

Elly:

That's what the kids wanted to talk about and that's what the older adults wanted to

Elly:

talk about. And so they talked about and I'm sure all sorts of issues come up.

Elly:

You know, you talk about your fears, you talk about public places, you talk about the,

Elly:

you know, the mental health, all sorts of things come up.

Elly:

And that, I think, is what makes sages and seekers so powerful is that it's allowing

Elly:

people to address what is important to them or what is scaring them.

Elly:

A lot of kids talk about, you know, the the pressure of getting into the right college.

Elly:

And, you know, I don't want to disappoint my parents and and all of those things.

Elly:

And so here you have someone who's 80 and can say to them, you you need to choose to do

Elly:

something that you enjoy, not that you think you should do.

Elly:

It's just an incredible melding of resources, actually.

Wendy:

So, you know, I'm a little trepidatious hearing that.

Wendy:

It seems so uncontrolled.

Wendy:

Right? It's just happens as it happens.

Wendy:

So like, I think as a sage, I might be nervous.

Wendy:

Like, what if we sit there across from each other on Zoom?

Wendy:

And what do you want to talk about?

Wendy:

I don't know. What do you want to talk about?

Wendy:

And you both kind of sit there.

Wendy:

How does that work?

Wendy:

And it is it's is it a group or is it one on one?

Elly:

Great question.

Elly:

So in person we have between eight and 15 sages and eight and 15 seekers and it is one

Elly:

on one. But we are together.

Elly:

This is, I think the beauty of sages and seekers is that part of it at the beginning

Elly:

of each one is we're together as a group and in that group we bring up questions

Elly:

and topics and there are always, you know, like I might say, you know, let's spend one

Elly:

minute talking to, you know, a sage and a seeker talking about would you support a

Elly:

clothing company that.

Elly:

Made their clothing in a sweat shop.

Elly:

And it was fascinating to me because I had a sage, a 96 year old woman who raised her hand

Elly:

and she said, I wouldn't.

Elly:

I stopped buying Hershey chocolate when I heard there was some issue going on.

Elly:

And then, you know, the kids were saying, well, you know, this fast clothing stuff.

Elly:

And so all sorts of things come up.

Elly:

But the basis of it is that human connection and how we treat each other and what makes us

Elly:

human and what makes us tick and what makes you sad or what makes you happy.

Elly:

But there's guidance.

Elly:

There's guidance.

Elly:

And then after we meet.

Elly:

Together for 15 minutes.

Elly:

Then you are broken off in pairs and the students actually choose who they want to

Elly:

work with. So somebody might.

Elly:

If you were to enroll during the speed dating process the second week, you would

Elly:

tell them what you do with Hey Boomer.

Elly:

And they would say, I really I want to do a podcast.

Elly:

So they might choose you because of that.

Elly:

They might choose you because you remind them of their favorite aunt.

Wendy:

So okay, so on online now because of COVID, you had to go online.

Wendy:

So now you're international, I understand, right?

Wendy:

Yes. Yeah. So online now, do you also have that group experience and the speed dating to

Wendy:

get to know each other?

Elly:

Yes, it's the same program and that's why we keep it small online.

Elly:

It's only eight and eight because if the screen is filled with, you know, all these

Elly:

tons of people, it's not intimate.

Elly:

And the point is to really get to know someone else.

Elly:

So we do the first getting helping to break down the stereotypes and then they speed date

Elly:

and then they're paired with somebody.

Elly:

So what we do is the first part is all in a group.

Elly:

You see everyone on the screen and then they go into breakout rooms with the person that

Elly:

they've chosen to talk to, and we give them a topic if they are desperate so you don't

Elly:

have to worry. You could do it and you all have.

Wendy:

Plenty to talk about.

Wendy:

Yeah, I just know teenagers can be like, Whoa, I have nothing.

Wendy:

So yeah, but, you know, there you go.

Wendy:

There's a bias of mine that I need to overcome, right?

Elly:

Yeah. That's so great.

Elly:

You could see that.

Elly:

Yes, I do.

Elly:

I have to tell you, it's because I love this story.

Elly:

I asked my neighbors.

Elly:

There are couple to please go to the Larchmont Charter School because it was sort

Elly:

of nearby and I needed two more sages.

Elly:

And so the the gentleman said, well, he he's he was in the film industry forever.

Elly:

And, you know, the film industry is pretty hot right now with saying you can't say

Elly:

certain things, you can't do certain things.

Elly:

And so he didn't tell me this, but he was a little bit nervous at the end.

Elly:

He said to me, I just want you to know, I was really nervous.

Elly:

I didn't want to get a female speaker and I didn't want to have to talk about sex.

Elly:

And so apparently she came in one week and he said, How was your weekend?

Elly:

And she said, I had a fight with my mother.

Elly:

And he said, Really?

Elly:

Well, what was that about?

Elly:

That was his problem. He never should have asked.

Elly:

But. Right. She said, you know, my mother says I'm not old enough to sleep with my

Elly:

boyfriend. And so they had a really wonderful, meaningful conversation about

Elly:

that. But Jim never told me until afterwards.

Elly:

He said my two worst fears came true and lived through it.

Elly:

And he's actually starting this same the program at the same school on Wednesday.

Elly:

So it couldn't have been that bad.

Wendy:

That's fantastic.

Wendy:

That's fantastic. Now, there was some research that you had conducted to see about

Wendy:

the pros and cons and what people are learning and getting from this.

Wendy:

And and I imagine you had to do that for some grant money.

Wendy:

But what tell us what what you found out through the research.

Elly:

Well, I reached out to Mary Helen IMMORDINO Yang.

Elly:

So if anyone is in the education field, they will know her.

Elly:

She is in education, but she's also a brain scientist.

Elly:

And so she was.

Elly:

Fascinated by sages and seekers because of the storytelling aspect.

Elly:

And she said, I'd really like to study this to get more information.

Elly:

And so her premise and of course it's true and she's famous now, is that unless

Elly:

emotions are involved, you really cannot learn something.

Elly:

So in other words, when people are lecturing or just trying to teach something, it's very

Elly:

difficult for many people to learn.

Elly:

And she said she noticed when she taught in Dorchester, in the Boston area that the kids

Elly:

would come in and they would put their heads down on their desk every day and not look up.

Elly:

And she said one day she came in and she started to tell them a story.

Elly:

And she said, first the heads came up and then the hands went up.

Elly:

And so she went back to Harvard to study the brain.

Elly:

And what she found out was that when you hear a story, it lights up parts of the brain

Elly:

all the way into the brain stem that do not get lit up in normal learning.

Elly:

Hmm. Yeah.

Elly:

So so she did, in fact, study us.

Elly:

And the surprising thing for me, I anticipated empathy being the big, you know,

Elly:

the big deal.

Elly:

And she said the number one outcome was a greater sense of purpose for not only

Elly:

the students, but that's a big deal because we have so many students that are

Elly:

contemplating or attempting suicide and huge anxiety.

Elly:

But if you have a purpose that.

Elly:

You know, diminishes all the all the anxiety and things because you're focused.

Elly:

And the the next piece was empathy.

Elly:

And the third piece, which was really interesting, is a greater interest in civic

Elly:

engagement. And I think that speaks a lot for older adults because if we I mean, we

Elly:

must have really great stories and be fun to be with if we're inspiring young people to go

Elly:

out there and be with other people.

Elly:

And I think, you know, the way the smartphone is in technology is that there's a

Elly:

whole other movement.

Elly:

You know, I want to work from home.

Elly:

I don't want to engage.

Elly:

And so this to me is huge.

Wendy:

That, yeah.

Elly:

That that we as boomers and beyond can young people to want to be out there to want to see

Elly:

more than they can see on TikTok and Instagram and things like.

Wendy:

That. I think the purpose then also is a strong motivator for the sages, right?

Wendy:

Their sense of purpose too.

Wendy:

Yeah, it must.

Elly:

Yes, exactly.

Elly:

And also this really got me.

Elly:

They were given a cognitive test at the start and then at the finish.

Elly:

And in eight weeks their cognitive abilities went up.

Wendy:

Which is that right?

Elly:

Yes. Wow.

Elly:

Yes. So.

Wendy:

So you sign up?

Elly:

Yes. We want everybody because we have so many students that need they need someone to

Elly:

to talk with.

Elly:

Harvard did a study that said that 92% of students felt there was no one they could

Elly:

confide in in their schools.

Wendy:

That's really sad.

Wendy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elly:

And so, you know, the.

Elly:

What I've heard is that even therapists are very hard to find right now for adults and

Elly:

students. I mean, we're not therapists as older adults, but we've seen a lot.

Elly:

And I think it's very grounding to hear, you know, the stories of successes and failures

Elly:

and, you know, picking yourself up and and all of these things are just so incredibly

Elly:

important.

Wendy:

So if I wanted to do this and I do so I would just go to your website to sign up.

Wendy:

Or how does that work to you?

Wendy:

Like, do you do a background check on people or how does this work?

Elly:

Okay, so you do enroll on the website and.

Wendy:

Which is pages and seeker's spelled out dot org.

Elly:

Yes. And you can choose if you're interested in the in-person programs.

Elly:

If you live in LA.

Elly:

We have some there are some in Boston, there's some all over the country.

Elly:

But we don't you know, we don't keep track of when they do the program.

Elly:

But we can help you out if you're in these two areas.

Elly:

And but online, it's so easy, you know, you don't even have to leave your home.

Elly:

You can enroll online.

Elly:

You pick which day, which time.

Elly:

We have four days a week, Monday through Thursday.

Elly:

I think right now we even have Friday programs and then you choose the time that

Elly:

you want, you enroll.

Elly:

We only do background checks on in-person programs and you don't have to go get

Elly:

fingerprinted. It's all done.

Elly:

We send you what you need to fill out and then that's done.

Elly:

So it's pretty effortless except for showing up.

Elly:

It's very important if you enroll in a program that you attend all eight weeks

Elly:

because because it's one on one, you're leaving someone alone.

Elly:

You're leaving someone.

Elly:

Without someone to speak with.

Elly:

So they show up and then and it works both ways.

Elly:

Then the person who shows up and you don't show up, they're diminished.

Elly:

You know.

Wendy:

I guess that has happened before.

Elly:

It has happened. It has happened.

Elly:

And and sometimes, you know, it's very valid.

Elly:

But sometimes.

Elly:

Oh, I forgot.

Elly:

And that's you know, we remind, though, we call we remind we do everything we can do to

Elly:

make it work.

Wendy:

Well, there's a couple of people listening that have participated or are participating.

Wendy:

So I would love to hear.

Wendy:

Let's see, Deb says 8 minutes for the first chat with a new person each week and 40

Wendy:

minutes for the in depth with the Seeker I am matched with for seven weeks.

Wendy:

That's been her experience.

Wendy:

So I guess the 8 minutes for the first first chat is the online dating kind of thing.

Elly:

Well, the first week, the first week it's all the speed dating, but each week.

Elly:

Thank you, Deb, for bringing that up because I feel if you if we're really going to impact

Elly:

ageism, then what we've got to do is let them see not just one older person is

Elly:

interesting, but all of them are interesting.

Elly:

So that's the eight minute every week you get to sit with someone in the group for 8

Elly:

minutes so that you can get to know other people.

Elly:

And it's it's really we added that because we could see there were so many people who

Elly:

were not paired that were fascinated by each other.

Wendy:

And do you ever come together back together as a group like at the end and Debrief or

Wendy:

anything we do?

Elly:

The last week is a debriefing, but the seventh week, the week before the final one

Elly:

is tribute week and the students are asked to write a tribute to their sage.

Elly:

And we ask them, Please don't write their history.

Elly:

They know when their husband went to war, they know how many kids they had.

Elly:

They know where they went to school and what they do all day long.

Elly:

What we want to hear is how were you impacted?

Elly:

How did they change how you are going to move forward in the world?

Elly:

And that if if this is Deb's first time, just wait for that, Deb, you're going to love

Elly:

them. It's really you know, many times there's tears and tears.

Elly:

You know, it's it's great.

Elly:

It's it's great to be acknowledged for who you are and what you bring to the table.

Elly:

And so that's what we're asking students to do.

Elly:

And it's a great lesson for them.

Elly:

I mean, we've had kids use their tribute as their college essay even.

Wendy:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Wendy:

What a great idea.

Wendy:

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy:

Oh, we have another Deb who has signed up and she goes, I can't wait to get started.

Wendy:

And Martha says she thinks, you know, and I, I agree.

Wendy:

This is probably true that it's easier to talk to someone other than your own

Wendy:

grandparent. Sometimes, you know, we feel the judgment or we feel the concern, or maybe

Wendy:

it's going to get back to mom or dad or whatever.

Wendy:

And so to have a non.

Wendy:

Relative who is older and also a sage to speak with, I think probably very valuable.

Elly:

Yeah, well, that's a great point.

Elly:

And I think the other thing, Wendy, that I usually tell people when they say, well, why

Elly:

would I sign up when my own grandkids won't talk to me is when you talk to your own

Elly:

grandkids, you are invested in their future.

Elly:

You're coming at them.

Elly:

With questions like, Are you studying?

Elly:

Did you apply for college?

Elly:

Where are you going to go? What are you thinking about?

Elly:

Who are you hanging out with?

Elly:

Are you doing drugs?

Elly:

How many hours are you on your phone?

Elly:

I've read about that.

Elly:

And and so we the fascinating thing to me is a lot of sages who have done the program have

Elly:

told me that it has improved their relationship with their grandkids because

Elly:

they ask deeper questions.

Elly:

They want to know more about them.

Elly:

And same with the kids.

Elly:

One at the very beginning, I had a student during the debriefing and he stood up and he

Elly:

said, I wish I could talk like this to my own family.

Wendy:

Yeah.

Elly:

And now, you know, you know, I don't know why we don't think we can talk about, you know,

Elly:

really important things and and things that are on our mind.

Wendy:

And I think, like you said, we're so invested that it makes it less safe sometimes to talk

Wendy:

to your parents or your grandparents.

Wendy:

So let me ask you about a takeaway, Ellie, because unfortunately, we're getting close to

Wendy:

the end here. So what advice would you give to someone who might be inspired like you

Wendy:

were, but who is like, I'm just a graphic designer, How can I do something like this?

Elly:

I'm so glad that you asked that.

Elly:

I, I really think the idea of an encore career, like stepping up again and.

Elly:

Feeling the power that you have as an older adult with your years of experience and

Elly:

wisdom and finding something that you're passionate about.

Elly:

I think that's the key, is if you're passionate about it, you're not going to have

Elly:

the fear and the the defeat and all those things you really.

Elly:

Feel like you're on a mission and if it doesn't go anywhere, you've grown.

Elly:

So I say.

Elly:

It doesn't matter what your background is.

Elly:

Step up.

Elly:

Find something that is exciting to you.

Elly:

You can always call me.

Elly:

They can call me. I have a million ideas of what I want to do.

Elly:

You know, when I hand over sages and seekers to somebody else.

Wendy:

So here you go. She just invited you to call her.

Wendy:

I'm going to give you her email address.

Wendy:

You can reach her at E, Kat's k a Z at Sages and Seekers dot org and you spell it out

Wendy:

Sages A and D seekers dot org.

Wendy:

So you can reach Ellie that way.

Wendy:

You can check out her website at sages and Seekers dot org and I love some of the

Wendy:

pictures on there. Oh my gosh.

Wendy:

It makes me wish that there was some in person.

Wendy:

But I imagine as I'm looking at what Deb says, you know, the bonding happens in person

Wendy:

or not in person. It just happens by.

Wendy:

Fabulous. Thank you, Ellie.

Elly:

Wendy, I really appreciate it.

Elly:

It's always fun to talk about something you love.

Wendy:

So I know. Right?

Wendy:

And to find that passion.

Wendy:

I totally agree with you on that.

Wendy:

I mean, this has been my passion.

Wendy:

This, you know, Hey, Boomer, sharing stories like yours, coaching people who are looking

Wendy:

for how to live into their passion.

Wendy:

Great. I want to give a quick shout out to the Greeneville podcast Company for their

Wendy:

expert editing and production of the Hey Boomer podcast, which is available on all of

Wendy:

the podcast apps.

Wendy:

Also, I wanted to invite you to download the Vitality Assessment from Hey Boomer Dot Biz,

Wendy:

and then if you find that you are a little diminished in your vitality and you want to

Wendy:

get excited and pumped up and move forward, then let's talk on the Hey Boomer slash

Wendy:

coaching website.

Wendy:

You can schedule a complimentary 20 minute session, which generally long goes about 30

Wendy:

minutes. And it's it's a lot of fun.

Wendy:

You'll get some insights from that as well.

Wendy:

And who is coming up next week?

Wendy:

Next week it's another Wendy, I know we're going to have trouble figuring out who's

Wendy:

talking. Her name is Wendy Battles, and she is the host of a podcast called Reinvention

Wendy:

Rebels. But that's her part time job.

Wendy:

She also works at Yale University as their cybersecurity awareness expert.

Wendy:

You imagine? I know.

Wendy:

But the Reinvention Rebels is all about women over 55 who have like you, Ellie, and

Wendy:

like I, you know, like, found their next passion, found their next thing that that

Wendy:

they are just so excited about doing.

Wendy:

So she has so much energy.

Wendy:

I just can't even compete.

Wendy:

But I always like to leave you with the belief that you can live with passion, you

Wendy:

can live with relevance, and you can live with courage and remember that you are never

Wendy:

too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.

Wendy:

My name is Wendy Green and this is been.