1 00:00:04,257 --> 00:00:07,467 eddie: Welcome to episode 30 of the web joy podcast. 2 00:00:07,617 --> 00:00:08,817 I'm your host Eddie. 3 00:00:09,087 --> 00:00:13,287 And in this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and 4 00:00:13,287 --> 00:00:17,397 what makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community. 5 00:00:17,757 --> 00:00:21,507 I hope you enjoy today's episode, make debugging more fun. 6 00:00:21,837 --> 00:00:23,787 With Oliver de Albuquerque. 7 00:00:25,376 --> 00:00:28,736 Welcome back to another episode of Web Joy. 8 00:00:28,946 --> 00:00:31,676 I'm excited to have Oliver today with us. 9 00:00:31,676 --> 00:00:35,336 Oliver, say hi to the community and, uh, let 'em know who you 10 00:00:35,336 --> 00:00:37,256 are, what you do, where you work. 11 00:00:37,466 --> 00:00:38,156 Brief intro. 12 00:00:38,486 --> 00:00:38,696 Hey 13 00:00:39,106 --> 00:00:39,306 Ollie: everyone. 14 00:00:39,311 --> 00:00:41,996 This is Ali or Oliver D Albuquerque. 15 00:00:42,086 --> 00:00:44,426 I'm the go to market lead at replay. 16 00:00:44,846 --> 00:00:46,676 Which is a dev tool startup. 17 00:00:46,886 --> 00:00:48,326 We're about a couple years old. 18 00:00:48,596 --> 00:00:52,496 I came from Google, was my last company, was there for six years. 19 00:00:52,496 --> 00:00:56,516 Hel held a bunch of different roles in various kinds of product partnerships, 20 00:00:56,576 --> 00:01:00,146 product partnerships, content partnerships, channel partnerships. 21 00:01:00,236 --> 00:01:04,136 And most recently spent a couple years at Chrome, and before that 22 00:01:04,136 --> 00:01:05,746 I was at a company called G lg. 23 00:01:06,116 --> 00:01:09,356 From the uk, from Oxford originally, but I live in the Outta Richmond. 24 00:01:09,446 --> 00:01:10,286 In San Francisco. 25 00:01:10,556 --> 00:01:11,096 eddie: Nice. 26 00:01:11,276 --> 00:01:15,296 Well, so how did you find your way into tech, right? 27 00:01:15,301 --> 00:01:19,226 Did you just always know this is what you wanted to do, or did you 28 00:01:19,226 --> 00:01:20,726 take a little bit of a windy journey? 29 00:01:20,726 --> 00:01:23,216 Kind of give us a brief overview of what that looked like 30 00:01:23,221 --> 00:01:23,576 Ollie: for you. 31 00:01:23,876 --> 00:01:25,196 Yeah, definitely not. 32 00:01:25,436 --> 00:01:27,986 I graduated in 2011, so I'm 33. 33 00:01:28,271 --> 00:01:33,311 there was, I think Google was, and, and companies like it were kind of had 34 00:01:33,311 --> 00:01:35,681 a really exciting inflection point. 35 00:01:35,681 --> 00:01:40,481 So I sort of always knew that that would be a really good place to land. 36 00:01:40,481 --> 00:01:44,381 Not Google the company, but Silicon Valley would be a good place to land just in 37 00:01:44,651 --> 00:01:47,891 trying to pay rent and build a career. 38 00:01:47,891 --> 00:01:50,411 And, but I sort of took, took a windy road. 39 00:01:50,411 --> 00:01:54,101 I used to do like standup comedy and. 40 00:01:55,056 --> 00:01:59,706 I used to like work at a radio station, and so I kind of 41 00:01:59,706 --> 00:02:01,506 like did a bunch of odd jobs. 42 00:02:01,506 --> 00:02:03,246 I worked a lot when I was in college. 43 00:02:03,251 --> 00:02:04,536 I had like three different jobs. 44 00:02:04,541 --> 00:02:08,166 I, I had jobs helping like physically and mentally challenged 45 00:02:08,171 --> 00:02:10,266 adults and waited tables. 46 00:02:10,266 --> 00:02:15,276 So I kind of always worked a lot and I had that built in, um, which helped. 47 00:02:15,366 --> 00:02:19,356 And then I started this company called GLG was my kind of first proper job. 48 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:21,396 They moved me to Austin, Texas. 49 00:02:21,666 --> 00:02:22,506 That was fun. 50 00:02:22,506 --> 00:02:25,206 I mean it's, I don't know if you know what the company does. 51 00:02:25,206 --> 00:02:31,566 They're sort of this, it's a network of experts like subject matter experts that 52 00:02:31,566 --> 00:02:36,486 they kind of bring into their platform that sign confidentiality agreements and 53 00:02:36,486 --> 00:02:39,126 are sort of readily available to consult. 54 00:02:39,186 --> 00:02:40,776 So they consult on demand. 55 00:02:42,276 --> 00:02:47,846 GLGs customers who, and mainly like institutional investors, wall Street 56 00:02:47,846 --> 00:02:52,556 people increasingly were kind of like a lot of strategy consultants like 57 00:02:52,556 --> 00:02:57,116 Bain, McKinsey, BBC G, like those types of companies would use it heavily. 58 00:02:57,506 --> 00:03:02,006 And then when I started, we were just launching a business for 59 00:03:02,006 --> 00:03:04,076 companies like businesses to use G L. 60 00:03:04,946 --> 00:03:11,306 And it's sort of a fun, it was like a mini m b A in that okay, you have this ability 61 00:03:11,306 --> 00:03:15,686 to talk to any expert on any topic that is difficult to get access to in a, like 62 00:03:15,691 --> 00:03:18,296 a written report or in on the internet. 63 00:03:18,296 --> 00:03:20,756 Like what would you talk about and what kinds of companies, 64 00:03:20,936 --> 00:03:21,836 what would they wanna learn? 65 00:03:21,836 --> 00:03:27,941 So, You know, I would go to DuPont offices in, in Delaware and talk to their market 66 00:03:27,941 --> 00:03:33,251 intelligence teams and r and d teams that would say, oh, we make a coding 67 00:03:33,251 --> 00:03:37,451 that works really well on airplane seats, but we wanna sell it into car seats. 68 00:03:37,781 --> 00:03:41,771 We wanna talk to experts who know about how to like, how to enter that new market. 69 00:03:41,771 --> 00:03:43,481 And so, It was fun. 70 00:03:43,481 --> 00:03:47,651 Like I talked to life sciences companies, I met with chemicals companies and 71 00:03:47,651 --> 00:03:52,211 then they eventually moved me to San Francisco to start their tech practice. 72 00:03:52,631 --> 00:03:55,331 And the thing that was fun about that was just the early business 73 00:03:55,331 --> 00:03:58,301 building, we had $0 in revenue. 74 00:03:58,301 --> 00:04:01,121 We had, you know, maybe almost one customer. 75 00:04:01,121 --> 00:04:02,681 And the fun. 76 00:04:03,036 --> 00:04:07,356 of that was turning it into a real business and figuring out how to make 77 00:04:07,356 --> 00:04:11,166 it a real business, and I kind of just got bit by the tech bug there in moving 78 00:04:11,166 --> 00:04:15,096 to San Francisco and being in Atlassian offices when they were like less than 79 00:04:15,096 --> 00:04:18,996 a hundred people being in Twilio's offices when they were 40 people. 80 00:04:19,446 --> 00:04:22,806 I want to go work at one of these companies and ended up getting an 81 00:04:22,806 --> 00:04:27,246 offer at Google and joined there and knew I wasn't gonna stay long, but 82 00:04:27,246 --> 00:04:28,416 knew it was kind of a good place. 83 00:04:29,111 --> 00:04:34,211 Try a few things and find maybe what might be some more areas of interest. 84 00:04:34,211 --> 00:04:37,451 I always thought I wanted to work at YouTube, but then, um, yeah, I 85 00:04:37,451 --> 00:04:43,421 ended up kind of like stumbling into developer world and developer ecosystems 86 00:04:43,421 --> 00:04:45,851 and, and just kind of love that. 87 00:04:45,881 --> 00:04:47,711 I love the engineer mind. 88 00:04:47,711 --> 00:04:51,521 I love the sort of community based problem solving. 89 00:04:51,821 --> 00:04:54,671 Like I, there was just all these attributes about it and about 90 00:04:54,671 --> 00:04:57,701 open source projects that I found. 91 00:04:58,271 --> 00:05:01,631 Really exciting and interesting. 92 00:05:01,751 --> 00:05:04,931 So that was kind of where I ended up gravitating towards. 93 00:05:05,021 --> 00:05:08,321 But of course I'm not an engineer learning to be one now. 94 00:05:08,621 --> 00:05:10,691 But yeah, that's kind of how I found my way, I 95 00:05:10,691 --> 00:05:11,141 eddie: guess. 96 00:05:11,261 --> 00:05:15,881 How did you get into go to market stuff? 97 00:05:15,881 --> 00:05:19,071 Is that what you were going to school for or? 98 00:05:19,781 --> 00:05:25,601 kind of how did, did that shift happen and which job did you start working on? 99 00:05:25,901 --> 00:05:28,841 Sales, marketing, go to market, that kind of area? 100 00:05:29,021 --> 00:05:29,291 Ollie: Sure. 101 00:05:30,131 --> 00:05:31,631 No, I didn't go to school for it. 102 00:05:31,631 --> 00:05:32,711 I studied economics. 103 00:05:32,711 --> 00:05:36,521 I was a pre-med major for, for the first two and a half 104 00:05:36,521 --> 00:05:38,081 years, and then I just switched. 105 00:05:38,621 --> 00:05:41,771 Kind of last minute thinking, I want to get done with school sooner 106 00:05:41,771 --> 00:05:44,531 and I have a lot of school loans and I wanna start earning money. 107 00:05:44,531 --> 00:05:49,421 And so I, I took the shortcut and, um, stopped doing, going 108 00:05:49,426 --> 00:05:50,981 the, the medicine route. 109 00:05:51,461 --> 00:05:55,871 No, I didn't learn anything about the types of jobs I would do in school, 110 00:05:55,876 --> 00:05:57,641 but I learned it getting a few. 111 00:05:58,016 --> 00:05:59,756 cutting my teeth on a few internships. 112 00:05:59,756 --> 00:06:03,296 I had an internship for this kind of emergency backup power, 113 00:06:03,356 --> 00:06:07,826 like a construction company that sold generators where I was 114 00:06:07,831 --> 00:06:09,626 doing sales and some marketing. 115 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:13,826 And so we were finding like data centers that were needing to 116 00:06:13,831 --> 00:06:19,406 outfit their data centers with an emergency backup power system and. 117 00:06:19,926 --> 00:06:23,706 I was trying to find company, like what sorts of companies were at the right 118 00:06:23,706 --> 00:06:28,056 stage in terms of outfitting their data center where they would need, uh, like 119 00:06:28,056 --> 00:06:33,246 a full construction team to come in, put the things in and do, you know, and 120 00:06:33,246 --> 00:06:35,286 those things cost millions of dollars. 121 00:06:35,286 --> 00:06:39,096 And so I was, that was my first, I guess, real job. 122 00:06:39,096 --> 00:06:42,876 It was my first college internship, so I knew I could do that. 123 00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:46,086 I knew I could have a conversation with someone who I didn't know very well. 124 00:06:46,676 --> 00:06:50,786 Make it easy enough that they would actually might consider doing business 125 00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,166 with whoever I was representing. 126 00:06:52,166 --> 00:06:58,016 So that was my first job, was sales and did well, I did well at G lg. 127 00:06:58,016 --> 00:06:59,636 That was ended up being my first job. 128 00:06:59,641 --> 00:07:03,536 And then kind of, I think just building an intuition for how 129 00:07:03,536 --> 00:07:08,186 companies work, how people think about what business needs look like 130 00:07:08,186 --> 00:07:11,276 and how do you actually walk people into a process that the rest of the. 131 00:07:12,116 --> 00:07:16,376 Stuff like marketing and stuff like how to do partnerships or how to 132 00:07:16,376 --> 00:07:18,356 kind of do pricing and did it all. 133 00:07:18,356 --> 00:07:23,576 That kind of came along with it once I kind of started to just get going. 134 00:07:24,146 --> 00:07:28,796 That's probably a similar path to many developers who didn't go to school. 135 00:07:29,391 --> 00:07:31,781 when they learned how to be a developer, they learned it afterwards. 136 00:07:31,781 --> 00:07:34,001 And so yeah, I'm similar in that 137 00:07:34,001 --> 00:07:34,331 eddie: way. 138 00:07:34,631 --> 00:07:39,971 Well, so I guess, what is it, you did a bunch of different jobs in college, 139 00:07:40,541 --> 00:07:44,591 didn't really study it, but then kind of got into sales and then moved your 140 00:07:44,591 --> 00:07:46,391 way more into the marketing realm. 141 00:07:46,721 --> 00:07:50,231 What is it that kind of has you excited and keeps you interested in 142 00:07:50,231 --> 00:07:53,441 working in go-to-market type industry? 143 00:07:53,801 --> 00:07:53,921 I 144 00:07:53,926 --> 00:07:56,441 Ollie: think the go-to-market function. 145 00:07:56,831 --> 00:08:02,231 . To me, what's most exciting is I left a very large company to join a very small 146 00:08:02,231 --> 00:08:07,391 company, and that very small company has a lot of talented people in it. 147 00:08:07,631 --> 00:08:08,711 Replay is 15 148 00:08:08,711 --> 00:08:10,631 eddie: people, only 15. 149 00:08:10,631 --> 00:08:11,141 Wow. 150 00:08:11,546 --> 00:08:11,891 . Ollie: Yes. 151 00:08:11,896 --> 00:08:14,111 And they have built something incredible. 152 00:08:14,351 --> 00:08:16,001 It's a very incredible. 153 00:08:16,691 --> 00:08:20,021 technology leap that other browsers have actually endeavored to try to 154 00:08:20,021 --> 00:08:22,211 create as a, as an offering as well. 155 00:08:22,211 --> 00:08:23,531 Chrome has tried this. 156 00:08:23,801 --> 00:08:25,691 Google has tried this, Microsoft has tried this. 157 00:08:25,871 --> 00:08:27,821 The company was born at Firefox. 158 00:08:28,061 --> 00:08:32,681 Really the idea was born at Firefox and that's where the co-founders are from. 159 00:08:33,011 --> 00:08:35,521 And so it's go, it's this high intrinsic value. 160 00:08:36,611 --> 00:08:41,501 Amazing technology and it's a tiny company that is trying to figure 161 00:08:41,501 --> 00:08:43,271 out how I can be a real business. 162 00:08:43,301 --> 00:08:47,011 And the thing that gives me joy when I come to work is. 163 00:08:47,471 --> 00:08:49,271 I want to help make it a real business. 164 00:08:49,271 --> 00:08:55,031 I want customers that want to pay us money, that tell their friends, and that 165 00:08:55,121 --> 00:09:00,611 where demand grows naturally and that the company can provide economic security 166 00:09:00,611 --> 00:09:02,261 to the people that are employed in it. 167 00:09:02,266 --> 00:09:07,371 And it helps kind of software development in general become like more joyful place. 168 00:09:07,371 --> 00:09:11,411 I mean, I think the part of our mission as a company is to make debugging more 169 00:09:11,411 --> 00:09:14,351 fun, but for me, I get excited about. 170 00:09:14,671 --> 00:09:18,121 Helping make this a real business and giving economic security to, to 171 00:09:18,121 --> 00:09:19,351 the people that are employed here, 172 00:09:19,981 --> 00:09:20,491 Nice. 173 00:09:20,521 --> 00:09:21,301 eddie: That's awesome. 174 00:09:21,361 --> 00:09:24,241 Well, and that's a funny segue, right? 175 00:09:24,246 --> 00:09:27,871 Because one of the main things we want to do on this podcast is talk 176 00:09:27,871 --> 00:09:29,731 about what brings people with joy. 177 00:09:29,761 --> 00:09:33,391 And so the kind of the topic that you and I had discussed heading 178 00:09:33,396 --> 00:09:36,601 into this that you'd like to talk about was collaborative debugging. 179 00:09:36,601 --> 00:09:39,151 So nice little segue there. 180 00:09:39,271 --> 00:09:41,281 So collaborative debugging. 181 00:09:41,801 --> 00:09:42,671 Is this right? 182 00:09:42,911 --> 00:09:44,771 Like give us a definition, I guess. 183 00:09:45,011 --> 00:09:46,451 Will you, what does that look like? 184 00:09:46,511 --> 00:09:47,471 What does that feel like? 185 00:09:47,801 --> 00:09:48,131 Ollie: Sure. 186 00:09:48,611 --> 00:09:52,661 Collaboration is a multiplayer experience, and for something to be 187 00:09:52,661 --> 00:09:55,571 collaborative, it means that in order to. 188 00:09:56,246 --> 00:09:58,016 Get from point A to point B. 189 00:09:58,016 --> 00:10:01,556 You need each other, you know, another person or at least one 190 00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:07,286 other person to join in and be part of that collective activity in 191 00:10:07,286 --> 00:10:09,416 order to achieve a certain thing. 192 00:10:09,746 --> 00:10:15,506 And debugging, I think, has ordinarily been a single person's. 193 00:10:16,316 --> 00:10:24,296 Show where they debug, where they're getting sent like a bug , or sent an issue 194 00:10:24,356 --> 00:10:28,486 via, whether it's an, an automated test or whether it's, you know, a customer 195 00:10:28,676 --> 00:10:33,776 sees a bug and then tells QA the issue, and then QA share that with a developer. 196 00:10:34,681 --> 00:10:36,981 Wherever the issue, the bug kind of comes in. 197 00:10:37,251 --> 00:10:40,941 It's kind of given to the developer, and then the developer has some 198 00:10:40,941 --> 00:10:44,781 set of information in order to be able to actually debug it. 199 00:10:45,171 --> 00:10:50,271 And today, I mean before replay and before things like time travel, debuggers, there 200 00:10:50,276 --> 00:10:57,831 was so much wasted time and challenge in one, trying to get all the necessary 201 00:10:57,831 --> 00:10:59,661 information to be able to reproduce. 202 00:11:00,326 --> 00:11:06,236 And to reproduce the issue, and two, to actually figure out what was going on 203 00:11:06,236 --> 00:11:08,576 in a very complicated and then fix it. 204 00:11:09,206 --> 00:11:15,296 What replay's, browser and replay's app allows you to do is to basically 205 00:11:15,301 --> 00:11:18,536 record an issue just and share it. 206 00:11:18,776 --> 00:11:19,616 Just like. 207 00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:22,036 You would, lots of other collaborative software. 208 00:11:22,041 --> 00:11:26,266 Just like if I wanted to write a blog post, I might put it in a Google Doc 209 00:11:26,416 --> 00:11:29,146 and then share it with you, and then you might make some edits to it. 210 00:11:29,686 --> 00:11:33,076 Replay is kind of taking that same collaboration foundation of being 211 00:11:33,496 --> 00:11:36,916 built into the web where you can share it and people can have access 212 00:11:36,916 --> 00:11:42,736 to it via url, but what sharing is the entire session that the browser 213 00:11:43,336 --> 00:11:46,156 just made, meaning it's not a video. 214 00:11:46,736 --> 00:11:51,146 It's actually a recording of the whole browser session where you see every 215 00:11:51,146 --> 00:11:54,326 line of code that's being executed in the course of that recording. 216 00:11:54,626 --> 00:11:58,556 And when a developer receives that from whoever, whether it's through, 217 00:11:58,556 --> 00:12:03,296 uh, your test that you have set up in CI where the test failed, or 218 00:12:03,386 --> 00:12:06,956 through a customer sharing a bargain issue, and they get a replay of it. 219 00:12:07,361 --> 00:12:11,381 They can do so much more to actually figure out what, what was going on. 220 00:12:11,381 --> 00:12:15,041 Cuz there can be some comments that the person who created the recording 221 00:12:15,041 --> 00:12:18,671 can share that says, here, I tried to add to cart but it failed. 222 00:12:18,851 --> 00:12:19,931 What's going on? 223 00:12:20,081 --> 00:12:22,391 And then the developer can then go in and see. 224 00:12:22,706 --> 00:12:25,406 All the network requests that were coming through at the time that that 225 00:12:25,406 --> 00:12:28,076 person clicked, tried to add to cart. 226 00:12:28,556 --> 00:12:30,626 You can see every line of code that was being failed. 227 00:12:30,626 --> 00:12:33,656 You could see the elements panel, you can inspect components. 228 00:12:34,046 --> 00:12:37,316 Everything that's happening in the code's execution, you 229 00:12:37,316 --> 00:12:39,206 can see at that point in time. 230 00:12:39,566 --> 00:12:42,386 And you can rewind and go backwards and forwards to see. 231 00:12:42,836 --> 00:12:45,386 What failed and what actually led to the cause. 232 00:12:45,506 --> 00:12:49,736 Very long-winded way of describing it, but that's really the collaboration 233 00:12:49,736 --> 00:12:53,876 comes in the power of being able to record the replay once and then have it 234 00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:58,376 live forever and use comments and all sorts of other things that, that we have 235 00:12:58,376 --> 00:13:03,356 built in that allow you to basically see what's going on, diagnose it, and. 236 00:13:03,851 --> 00:13:04,211 move on 237 00:13:05,021 --> 00:13:10,721 . eddie: So what I'm hearing is you all are basically like wizards from Harry Potter. 238 00:13:10,721 --> 00:13:15,386 I mean, this sounds like magic , so there's some interesting stuff going on 239 00:13:15,521 --> 00:13:15,791 Ollie: there. 240 00:13:16,121 --> 00:13:16,511 Yes. 241 00:13:16,691 --> 00:13:18,191 We employ wizards. 242 00:13:18,281 --> 00:13:22,451 One of my favorite people at replay is a guy Mark Erickson, who is a 243 00:13:22,451 --> 00:13:24,341 maintainer of Redox, and he joined. 244 00:13:24,836 --> 00:13:28,226 , um, and is one of our front end engineers and he is a wizard. 245 00:13:28,226 --> 00:13:31,766 He's written a lot of pieces on how to debug and is kind of 246 00:13:31,766 --> 00:13:33,116 a thought leader in the space. 247 00:13:33,386 --> 00:13:33,656 Yeah, 248 00:13:34,106 --> 00:13:37,046 eddie: that's so funny because when you were talking about rewinding, fast 249 00:13:37,046 --> 00:13:38,606 forwarding, I was like, that's funny. 250 00:13:38,606 --> 00:13:41,306 That sounds a lot like the Redux tools. 251 00:13:41,426 --> 00:13:46,796 Like that was the first kind of debugging platform that like I ever saw where I 252 00:13:46,796 --> 00:13:50,906 could actually click a button and like rewind time and fast forward time, and. 253 00:13:51,521 --> 00:13:54,851 it makes complete sense that he would want to, regardless of if you all 254 00:13:55,001 --> 00:13:58,391 built that before he came, like of course that's something he would wanna 255 00:13:58,391 --> 00:14:01,151 be a part of or would've fit into. 256 00:14:01,271 --> 00:14:01,601 Ollie: Yeah. 257 00:14:01,781 --> 00:14:07,241 I mean, the next generation of what the redux dev tools is gonna live in replay, 258 00:14:07,511 --> 00:14:08,771 eddie: that's incredible. 259 00:14:08,776 --> 00:14:08,961 Now. 260 00:14:09,801 --> 00:14:14,241 I imagine there's like an SD case, someone installs, like that's I'm 261 00:14:14,241 --> 00:14:16,281 sure pretty standard and normal. 262 00:14:16,611 --> 00:14:19,731 Ollie: We have basically two elements of replay. 263 00:14:19,736 --> 00:14:23,781 You have the replay browser, which you need to download just like you 264 00:14:24,221 --> 00:14:25,491 download Chrome and any other browser. 265 00:14:25,941 --> 00:14:28,971 We have a fork of chromium and we have a fork of Firefox. 266 00:14:29,246 --> 00:14:32,906 And then you launch that browser, you can record a bug. 267 00:14:32,906 --> 00:14:38,996 So you can like put the webpage in the browser where the bug ha is occurring, 268 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:40,886 or, or, and then you record it. 269 00:14:41,126 --> 00:14:44,456 And then after that you basically have a shareable URL 270 00:14:44,456 --> 00:14:46,406 link, which then you can share. 271 00:14:46,406 --> 00:14:50,066 And then if you are spending all your time in Chrome, then you 272 00:14:50,066 --> 00:14:51,536 can actually view that record. 273 00:14:52,201 --> 00:14:56,071 in another Chrome tab, and then by replaying that recording, 274 00:14:56,071 --> 00:14:57,861 that's the replay app. 275 00:14:58,081 --> 00:15:03,511 And the replay app is a web app that basically has everything that like Chrome 276 00:15:03,511 --> 00:15:06,751 dev tools has in it to basically debug. 277 00:15:07,051 --> 00:15:11,221 And so you kind of, the, the browser is used to record it and then the app, the 278 00:15:11,221 --> 00:15:16,891 web app is used to debug that recording and you have kind of a viewer tab. 279 00:15:16,891 --> 00:15:19,861 You have a dev tools tab, and you can see everything that's going. 280 00:15:20,386 --> 00:15:21,346 . That's really cool. 281 00:15:21,526 --> 00:15:25,066 Another thing that I wanted to share a little bit, as you were talking about 282 00:15:25,276 --> 00:15:29,416 kind of the go to market function and what am I, what brings me joy and what I'm 283 00:15:29,416 --> 00:15:35,116 excited about, there's been, you know, in the history of developer tools, there's 284 00:15:35,596 --> 00:15:45,976 a really interesting history of how projects for developers begin, how they. 285 00:15:46,811 --> 00:15:51,251 Fanfare how that, how fanfare gets built and how people find use of it. 286 00:15:51,431 --> 00:15:56,951 And there's a long road of kind of tools that never maybe saw the light 287 00:15:56,951 --> 00:15:58,991 of day, but had a lot of potential. 288 00:15:59,321 --> 00:16:03,071 And there's projects that kind of remained open source and, and saw a lot 289 00:16:03,076 --> 00:16:08,651 of demand and then people could build lives li you know, earn a living out of 290 00:16:08,651 --> 00:16:10,511 being a developer that knew that part. 291 00:16:10,991 --> 00:16:13,931 project, like you could be a React developer, and then there's lots 292 00:16:14,201 --> 00:16:15,541 which was born out of Facebook. 293 00:16:15,546 --> 00:16:19,181 But I think what's interesting about the go-to-market function in dev tools is 294 00:16:19,181 --> 00:16:24,071 because there's this kind of interesting history of how developers came to 295 00:16:24,071 --> 00:16:28,511 life and how they actually sustained themselves and became real businesses. 296 00:16:28,661 --> 00:16:30,341 That's actually a very hard leap. 297 00:16:30,396 --> 00:16:34,746 To make, how do you turn something that is super valuable for developers and 298 00:16:34,746 --> 00:16:38,826 could actually make software development so much better for, you know, the 299 00:16:38,831 --> 00:16:42,036 millions of people who are trying to build and actually make it easier for 300 00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:44,286 more developers to become developers? 301 00:16:44,556 --> 00:16:46,296 How do you turn that into real business? 302 00:16:46,296 --> 00:16:51,156 And that's kind of the something around, the one thing I think about 303 00:16:51,156 --> 00:16:56,151 with respect to being a go-to-market leader at replay is, That's a hard 304 00:16:56,151 --> 00:17:00,471 leap to, to make, and, um, that's what I'm hired to, to try and do. 305 00:17:00,621 --> 00:17:00,771 That 306 00:17:00,771 --> 00:17:02,451 eddie: sounds really exciting, right? 307 00:17:02,451 --> 00:17:09,051 Because so often developers use tools and those tools disappear or they get 308 00:17:09,051 --> 00:17:13,311 bought it by another company because they want to get those developers 309 00:17:13,316 --> 00:17:17,031 that built it, and oftentimes it ends up going into disrepair. 310 00:17:17,581 --> 00:17:22,711 And so I think that's great for you to be able to be someone who is helping 311 00:17:22,861 --> 00:17:28,621 ensure that this tool is sustainable and profitable so that developers can actually 312 00:17:28,626 --> 00:17:33,091 rely on it rather than something that is just gonna grow cobwebs in the corner. 313 00:17:33,211 --> 00:17:34,231 Ollie: Yeah, exactly. 314 00:17:34,236 --> 00:17:36,391 It's very, it's important to our mission. 315 00:17:36,396 --> 00:17:40,741 It's how we're trying to build a high integrity with the choices we 316 00:17:40,741 --> 00:17:44,671 make, what we open source, what we, what we can make available, like 317 00:17:44,761 --> 00:17:46,291 what tools we want to build into. 318 00:17:46,921 --> 00:17:50,961 There's a lot that goes into the decisions from a product positioning 319 00:17:50,966 --> 00:17:54,961 and from a product development standpoint that we hope will mean 320 00:17:54,991 --> 00:17:59,881 this thing is a long lasting thing that can live in all sorts of contexts 321 00:17:59,881 --> 00:18:01,711 and help developers everywhere. 322 00:18:02,326 --> 00:18:05,476 We wanna be runtime agnostic, we wanna be browser agnostic, we wanna 323 00:18:05,476 --> 00:18:10,216 be framework agnostic so that as the sort of web development evolves, 324 00:18:10,216 --> 00:18:14,086 there's this kind of foundational way in which you can debug most very 325 00:18:14,086 --> 00:18:16,816 easily in all those different contexts. 326 00:18:16,996 --> 00:18:20,086 And yeah, it's very, you know, we're built by developers. 327 00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:23,866 The dna n a and the lifeblood of the company is developers that really 328 00:18:23,866 --> 00:18:28,486 give a shit and that want, um, to make tools that make people's lives easier 329 00:18:28,486 --> 00:18:30,736 and want to bring a lot of joy to. 330 00:18:31,346 --> 00:18:33,506 To the software development process? 331 00:18:33,806 --> 00:18:36,926 eddie: Is there free trials or free tier? 332 00:18:36,926 --> 00:18:40,196 If someone heard all this and they're like, this is so awesome, I have to try 333 00:18:40,201 --> 00:18:42,536 this out, uh, how do they try it out? 334 00:18:42,536 --> 00:18:43,376 How do they get involved? 335 00:18:43,526 --> 00:18:43,976 Yes. 336 00:18:43,976 --> 00:18:46,406 Ollie: If you're an individual developer that's just trying to build 337 00:18:46,406 --> 00:18:49,856 your app and you can use this thing, then yeah, it's free for individuals. 338 00:18:49,856 --> 00:18:54,091 If you are a contributor to an open source project or a maintainer to an open source 339 00:18:54,091 --> 00:18:56,521 project, it's free for you to use as well. 340 00:18:56,521 --> 00:19:01,721 We wanna support all open source projects that could use replay in any context. 341 00:19:01,721 --> 00:19:05,861 So please reach out if you, uh, are trying to use it in that way. 342 00:19:06,111 --> 00:19:06,801 We have. 343 00:19:07,226 --> 00:19:10,256 Paid plans for teams and companies to use it. 344 00:19:10,256 --> 00:19:14,881 You can sign up and set up a team and that kicks off a 30 day trial, which 345 00:19:14,881 --> 00:19:19,761 we're happy to extend we're super early so we know things can take time to kind 346 00:19:19,761 --> 00:19:22,181 of get materialized within companies. 347 00:19:22,696 --> 00:19:25,886 And then we have a paid model depending on how many users and whatnot. 348 00:19:25,886 --> 00:19:29,466 And we're just coming out with, our test suites offering, which is 349 00:19:29,466 --> 00:19:34,186 adding replay to ci, so that you can debug failed tests or flaky tests. 350 00:19:34,336 --> 00:19:37,336 eddie: That's awesome, especially for those tests that like the 351 00:19:37,336 --> 00:19:39,316 code works, but the test doesn't. 352 00:19:39,766 --> 00:19:40,996 Why the heck is that happening? 353 00:19:40,996 --> 00:19:42,316 And yeah, there you go. 354 00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:43,516 Now you got the magic. 355 00:19:44,396 --> 00:19:45,206 Ollie: Yeah, exactly. 356 00:19:45,206 --> 00:19:49,016 You can run, there's a couple test runners that we're starting with Cyprus 357 00:19:49,016 --> 00:19:52,526 and playwright, and we'll add support for puppeteer as well, and, and then 358 00:19:52,526 --> 00:19:54,686 eventually the others, but exactly. 359 00:19:54,686 --> 00:19:59,066 You see that a test failed and you'd have a replay, a recording of, of that where 360 00:19:59,066 --> 00:20:01,676 you can jump in and see what went wrong. 361 00:20:01,706 --> 00:20:02,936 Why did the test actually fail? 362 00:20:03,541 --> 00:20:03,931 . eddie: Nice. 363 00:20:03,961 --> 00:20:05,521 Well, that's music to my ears. 364 00:20:05,581 --> 00:20:09,271 Cypress is my favorite test runner, so I'm glad to hear that They, uh, 365 00:20:09,541 --> 00:20:10,651 they're supported by it already. 366 00:20:11,341 --> 00:20:11,821 , Ollie: yes. 367 00:20:11,821 --> 00:20:16,591 We just are hiring our, our first product manager is came from Cyprus 368 00:20:16,596 --> 00:20:19,891 and we have the, their first technical account manager that joined Replay. 369 00:20:19,891 --> 00:20:20,881 So Nice. 370 00:20:20,911 --> 00:20:23,961 We know those folks and, and are big fans of and what that building. 371 00:20:24,411 --> 00:20:24,891 eddie: Well, cool. 372 00:20:24,891 --> 00:20:28,311 As we, you know, wrap up today, you know, as a community we love to support 373 00:20:28,311 --> 00:20:31,341 each other, uh, so we'd love to hear, you know, is there anything that you've 374 00:20:31,341 --> 00:20:33,231 been involved in that you want to share? 375 00:20:33,231 --> 00:20:36,081 I mean, obviously replay, check that out. 376 00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:38,091 Uh, if you all are interested. 377 00:20:38,391 --> 00:20:41,481 But is there anything else that you'd like to throw out there to share with 378 00:20:41,481 --> 00:20:42,051 Ollie: the community? 379 00:20:42,201 --> 00:20:45,421 You know, we love React and we love njs. 380 00:20:45,966 --> 00:20:49,626 We're very involved in those, uh, projects and, and, and others. 381 00:20:49,746 --> 00:20:53,766 So I'd say like, if you are, you know, we just, we, Brian Vaughn is another, 382 00:20:54,036 --> 00:20:57,546 uh, member of our team who, um, helped build the reactive tools and came 383 00:20:57,546 --> 00:21:01,926 from Facebook and, and so you can find us in those, in those projects. 384 00:21:01,931 --> 00:21:06,036 And, and we also have a, a discord, um, as well we, we build in public. 385 00:21:06,036 --> 00:21:08,826 So come on in and we'd love to chat with you. 386 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:10,656 eddie: Well, yeah, that sounds great. 387 00:21:10,656 --> 00:21:12,816 It's great to hear you have a discord and. 388 00:21:13,451 --> 00:21:14,381 . Yeah, I'll have to check that out. 389 00:21:14,381 --> 00:21:15,401 Anyone else interested? 390 00:21:15,401 --> 00:21:17,411 Feel free to jump in there. 391 00:21:17,411 --> 00:21:22,151 I will, uh, have links to kind of everything we talked about in this 392 00:21:22,151 --> 00:21:24,131 episode, uh, in the show notes. 393 00:21:24,131 --> 00:21:29,111 So if you're interested in that, check out the show notes for easy to click links. 394 00:21:29,621 --> 00:21:31,001 And, uh, yeah. 395 00:21:31,181 --> 00:21:34,031 Ollie, I appreciate you joining the podcast. 396 00:21:34,031 --> 00:21:35,231 It's been so fun chatting. 397 00:21:35,501 --> 00:21:35,681 It's 398 00:21:35,681 --> 00:21:37,001 Ollie: so great chatting with you too. 399 00:21:37,051 --> 00:21:37,891 Thanks for having me. 400 00:21:39,457 --> 00:21:43,717 eddie: Thank you for joining us for episode 30, make debugging more 401 00:21:43,717 --> 00:21:46,027 fun with Oliver de Albuquerque. 402 00:21:46,417 --> 00:21:48,997 You can find out more about Ali on his Twitter. 403 00:21:49,447 --> 00:21:50,797 At Ali. 404 00:21:51,247 --> 00:21:52,207 De Alba. 405 00:21:52,717 --> 00:21:57,097 You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode, as well as a link 406 00:21:57,097 --> 00:21:58,987 to Ollie's Twitter in the show notes. 407 00:21:59,467 --> 00:22:02,887 If you enjoyed this episode, help others discover it as well. 408 00:22:03,337 --> 00:22:06,247 Just give us a shout out on your favorite social media platform, 409 00:22:06,307 --> 00:22:10,057 maybe tag a friend or a coworker that you think might enjoy it. 410 00:22:10,747 --> 00:22:13,957 And don't forget to follow us wherever you hang out online. 411 00:22:14,317 --> 00:22:16,357 Or you can subscribe to our newsletter. 412 00:22:16,627 --> 00:22:17,857 To stay up to date. 413 00:22:18,337 --> 00:22:21,307 Thank you for listening and have a great day.