My name is Adam Lamb and I am a career coach for chefs and hospitality

professionals@cheflifecoaching.com.

And we have my dear friend and co-host Jim Taylor of Benchmark.

Welcome, Jim.

Yeah.

How are you?

And just to be clear Palm Springs lovely.

Yep.

Yeah.

Working remotely for the next couple of weeks, actually.

So

there you go.

Yeah.

This is, this is episode 1 1 8, transforming Hospitality Leadership.

And in a minute we're gonna be talking to leadership coach Michelle Moreno.

We're gonna be discussing the current state of hospitality leadership and

three things that you can do right now to uplevel your management style.

This lunchbox live stream is broadcast every week on Thursday

at 12 noon Eastern time.

On the Turning the Table podcast page on LinkedIn, YouTube, and the Chef

Life Coach page On Facebook, you can catch the podcast version everywhere

you get your podcasts in two days.

We ask that you share the show with someone you care about who can find this

information useful and leave a review.

As always, the links to any videos or other things that we discuss

will be listed in the show notes.

And before we bring Michelle on, I just wanted to quickly.

Highlight.

So, Jim, it's pretty clear that a lot of the people who watch or listen to

the show are routinely taking aback at our transparency and vulnerability.

talking about high stress situations which I think, which I think is probably

one of the nicest things that anybody ever said, like that what we're talking

about resonates with them and serves as an opportunity to shift their perspective.

And even last night, Woke up and I had this this DM sent to me by a

friend who said, I need you right now.

I'm so sorry because right now I don't want to be that guy.

I need to be seen and heard.

And I said, do you wanna chat?

He said, man, I don't wanna offload on you.

And I said, well, that's what friends are for, we chef.

And my, my message is like, please, for fuck's sake, be that guy.

Yeah.

If you, if you're struggl.

And you need somebody ask for what you want.

I know it's a skill that most of us, you know, are, are very unpracticed at.

But there, there are people who will stand by you and we'll give you some

space so that you can offload mm-hmm.

and so.

Like, I know when I was in my shit, I probably thought the same thing to myself.

Like, I don't wanna call my friends, I don't wanna talk to anybody.

I know I don't want to be that guy who just emotionally dumps.

But if you're not, if you're not willing to be courageous enough

to have that, like, what else?

What else do we have, Jim?

Like what other alternatives do we have for this incredibly high stressed

season that we're like cooking into?

Yeah.

You and I talked about the topic of resiliency before.

Mm-hmm.

and.

You know, going back to 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago when I first started

my hospitality career, you know, we talked a lot about we want to, we

wanna work with and hire resilient people right into the industry.

But, you know, looking back now, what we really were saying in a different way was

we just sort of gonna try and hire people who just don't bitch about what's going on

Right.

And you know, I think looking back now, Bitch about it, talk about it.

You gotta get stuff off your chest, you gotta work through things.

You gotta ask for help.

You know, and, and I think, you know, to your comment a few minutes ago about

what maybe some people are enjoying, watching or listening to what we talk

about is, you know, working on food cost is important, working on building sales is

important, but, you know, hopefully we're addressing some things that are a little

bit deeper than that, that our, you know, trying to improve the, the experience for

the next generation of, of restaurant.

You know, that's, I'm really

passionable, so, and I'm continually blown away because I started

my particular podcast off Life Radio in 2014 and there was nothing like,

nothing like it anywhere, and nobody was talking about mental health issues.

And so I put that away for a while and then when I came back and decided now

this is the way I wanna spend the rest of my time, I was like blown away about

all the organizations that are out there that are focused on mental health and

wellness in the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent time to ask for help.

So please, please, please, please don't suffer in silence.

And just so that you know, at the chef life coaching.com, there's a tab that

says Support that has a whole list of organizations like the Burn Chef

Project, not nine to five Chow with links and phone numbers and all that stuff.

So help is as close as you know, your thumbs.

Yeah.

And to that, Of dealing with high stress , we'd like to bring in our good friend

Michelle Moreno le QAB Leadership.

I'm Michelle.

I'm Hello.

Thank you for having me

both Jim and I were incredibly excited when you said yes.

Because I think and I don't wanna speak for Jim, but I'm always impressed

by your enthusiasm, your positivity especially in a, in a business climate

where it's not necessarily the easiest thing to, to look on the bright side.

So, yeah, it's been a journey for everyone.

You know, that I think I've always been passionate, I idolized this industry but

I made a lot of mistakes in some very stressful years that were pointed out to

me by people I loved dearly and that were, you know, people who were of the team.

And I decided it's time to change and I take to take all the good.

And they need to delete out all the bad stuff.

And that is where, how we've got to QAD leadership today.

So thank you.

I'm curious because I, I, I find that sometimes like

learning what not to do is probably more impactful what to do.

So, yeah.

Can you point to a particular incident that really sticks with you, like when

you were young and perhaps not as mature in your leadership style, is there

one thing that like sticks out to you?

Like, oh gosh, that was so bad.

. Michelle Moreno: Oh gosh, how many,

people, you know, like when we have, cause we had an international company,

so we would have Zoom calls with like, you know, Dubai and London.

And if I'm on one, like you are getting calls out publicly,

you know, to get things done.

And now I look back and think, what were you doing?

Of course they were.

Judging my behavior as they should have done.

Not getting to the point of do you need help?

What is an understanding?

So I think my calling out publicly is probably something I did

often and, you know, loudly,

it's fantastic.

We promised the listeners that we're gonna get to three things yes.

That they can do today to up level their management game.

But Michelle, I think.

Like, how do I know that I need to uplevel my management game?

Like everything seems to be going okay, given the fact that I can give

my power away to the economy or the supply chain or you know, my regional,

like, what if I am not clear that I actually need to uplevel my game?

Well, let's look at facts.

We don't have, re retention isn't strong in our industry, so let's,

let's not be person about about it.

F.

We do not seem to be strong in this in our industry.

Otherwise we would have teams staying with us wanting to grow.

So if people find it difficult to actually look at themselves, you just

need to look at to what's actually happening in your restaurant business.

Secondly, everybody has room to up level and God forbid that I

never don't have room to up level.

I don't want to be sat going.

Yeah, I've.

Right.

I wanna think I've got this, I've nailed that.

I'm doing well at that.

I'm gonna keep checking myself on it.

Now where do I wanna go next?

And so if you wanna be great, you have to, there's always

gonna be an opportunity to at

level.

That retention thing is, is so interesting and I find I should be, I should use

my, choose my words carefully here.

But I find it kind of funny that it's not actually funny,

but I find it kind of funny.

our industry, you know, depending who you talk to, anywhere from 30% to

120% turnover annually in any given restaurant, depending who you ask.

And you know how they look at that information.

I mean, any other industry in the world would say, stop everything

and we need to address this.

Yeah.

If there was a hundred percent turnover in any other industry,

they would literally say, there is nothing else that's more important.

And, and for some reason in hospitality, we just kind of accepted

this as the norm for a very long.

So, you know, upleveling leadership is, I think it's amazing what

you're working on because that's so much of the, the opportunity

and your point of there is nothing more important

is exactly where we're at because this industry creates memories.

Yeah.

Creates memories for our guests, creates memories for us, creates opportunities.

and we're, we're, we're missing out on them opportunities cuz we just

haven't given people the skills to be able to look after other people.

They all know how to read the p and l.

They know how to waste their time writing that budget that they can't achieve.

Mm-hmm.

. And we're focusing on things that are setting them up to fail where

they, we could be focusing them on setting everyone up for success.

You're absolutely right.

I, I wanna give a quick shout out to, you know, some of our loyal listeners,

you know, Moraine, Ray Eli, Amira Doug.

New Hook, please, brother.

I hope you're feeling much better.

None of us knew what was going on, but that's all right.

. Andy Jones, Michael V.

Scott Turner.

Just really grateful for the support and and the enthusiasm that you

guys provide us especially the comments cuz it keeps it all fresh.

and Michelle, you know, you've got a beautiful website.

It's classy.

I mean, geez.

I looked at that and I thought, mm, god, I wish I could do that.

But the thing that caught my eye, a couple things is that you have a lead.

You have a lead gen or a lead generator called making time your superpower.

Yeah.

And the reason I bring that up is because it seems like one of the

biggest objections to learning advance.

Trying to take in more information so you can do your job better is, and,

and this is not universal, but more often than not, I hear somebody say,

I, I, I just don't have time for that.

Yeah.

So speak to me about what you are doing to address that particular situation.

I think that understanding time and how you can

do a mind shift, mindset shifts on it, releases a lot of pressure that

we put on ourselves that do not.

So there's, there's stress that does exist, you know, and then

you can and can't control it.

And then the stress we create and we have to learn how to understand

it, to be able to change it.

And I think you are completely right as every answer, every

time is we don't have time.

We don't have time.

And it's starting to understand it.

So when we talk about making time, our super.

We talk about what's actually stopping us, first of all,

and it falls into two counts.

One of them is what I call, what they call time scarcity, or time fam.

Mm-hmm.

, where there's things that were, if the dialogue were brought up with, you know, I

don't have enough time with the years on.

I can't believe I'm already 45.

I know it's shocking, but true . Still feeling like a 22 year old.

And we, we as a, as a culture, we put fear of time, like as if the curtain older

isn't great in how much wisdom we've got.

So I think first of all, we have to understand as.

As a society, we enforce time fam and time scarcity on people within our vocabulary.

So it's just there in our subconscious with us just even realizing it and

it's starting to become aware of when are people having them conversations,

when are you using them conversations cuz they don't serve anyone and

they certainly don't serve you.

The other part of that limitness with time is just time distraction all.

Web and emails that we get nowadays, or the notification is someone contacting

me on Slack, on WhatsApp, on an Instagram message, on a LinkedIn dm.

The speed we can get to things like on Netflix.

We have all these distractions in our lives as well that keep us from

doing what really will still assess what will make us purposeful and what

will make us be successful and if we are successful, so are other people.

So they are the limitations with time.

And then it's flipping the mindset to how do I become time affluent?

How do I actually create more time?

Which you can.

And a couple of the ideas in there are things like, you've gotta get

tune off, your notifications, your ding dings, your popups, you know?

Every time you are a focus, every time you are gonna achieve something

great, that sting distracts you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Perfect.

So all your notifications, that's a classic Ariana Huffington, get

rid of your notifications, you know, post I have a lovely table.

If you're gonna focus on something, one post it note at a time, write it down.

Don't have a to-do list.

Yeah.

Have a post it note with one thing you are doing at the time.

Close everything else.

And focus on that.

You limit your distractions.

You stay pure to what you are trying to achieve on it.

And I think it's interesting you, the word priority is thousands of years old.

Yeah.

Thousands of years old.

Only in the last hundred 50 years.

And they've become a plural priorities.

So up until 150 years ago, you could only have a.

Now we have priorities and it, it, it doesn't make sense.

We can only do one thing at a time.

Our attention only goes that way and start understanding what can you

control and what can't you control.

You know, you have to get conscious with where you are wasting your time

because if you are thinking about things that you are either making up

or hasn't happened or isn't in your control, you are using valuable time.

So trying to become time affluent is where you create more time for yourself

and becoming aware of how you behave and what vocabulary you're using.

I think that's absolutely brilliant.

And I'm aware that to some extent, you know, watching this show would promote

folks to be more self-aware, right?

And to use a deeper inquiry as to what's going on, because we're often challenging

the norms in the hospitality industry.

And yet I know from time to time that I just go completely unconscious too.

Like, okay, I have popup blockers and feed blockers on all my devices,

yet there's this moment where I might be feeling, I dunno, maybe tired or

like, not necessarily achieving as much as I'd like to, and then default

to, oh, no, well, let me see what's, what's happening here or on this.

So, Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think I hear you say is like this

is about creating healthy boundaries.

Yeah.

Completely.

Completely.

Increasing your knowledge on the boundaries.

You can actually get hold of working out which boundaries suit you

cuz we can't achieve everything.

Mm-hmm.

. And, and then respecting yourself to create the boundary.

Cuz the resilience part in our industry means because we didn't have

any boundaries within the industry.

So you can't, when we say to people, can you do this?

And they go, I haven't got time.

You are completely right.

The boundaries have been blurred for so long.

We don't know whether we're going two steps forward or three steps back.

And constantly it's more than three steps back because of

these boundaries lines blurring.

This is what needs to like be set in stone to move forward.

So how would you define a healthy boundary

from an unhealthy boundary?

Oh, that's a personal conversation because someone's

someone's one boundary to one.

Like, it's like stress.

There's two levels of stress, isn't it?

There's a stress that can push you on with passion and it excites you, and

there's a stress that ruins you, you know?

I think you have to be able to take time, let it marinate.

I think sometimes we're too quick to respond, you know, let it marinate.

Take time and work out.

What, what can you do?

First of all, what, even if you start journaling to start going,

that was too far for me today.

That was too far to me.

And you start learning about yourself, I don't think it's as easy

as I'm gonna put that boundary in.

Cause everybody's boundaries are different.

Different, and people need different things at different times in their lives.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, so how do you go about helping people get over that hump?

Because everyone is dominated by their phone and their email and.

Like you said, even things like Netflix, but you know, the notifications or

the, the urge to check do I, if the notifications are turned off, the

urge to check to see if there are any, you know, anything new coming in

the the inbox and that kind of thing.

How do you help people get through that?

It is the tools.

You have to turn them off.

You know, you have to, like for example, I don't have a phone in my bedroom at night.

I have a classic alarm clock.

You know, you have to put in like little rules for yourself

to be able to start managing it.

I think it's also what do you do collectively?

Things are difficult on your own.

So what can you do as a group?

So emails, you know, when people.

They have a chat and then they have a response and that, you know,

you could pick up the phone and have a conversation much quicker.

You know, there'd be no room for confusion.

We've socially connected with each other and supported each other, and so what

can we do as a group that can impact it?

Or then nonsense emails.

Thanks.

They're no great.

I'll get back to you and it just feels overwhelmed for other people.

I hope we're all polite people.

I love you lot.

I don't need to tell you 20 times a day in an.

You know, and so what can we do collectively to, to do it?

Cause it is difficult on your own, but if we actually go at it like a tribe

between how we run our industry, we can probably get further on.

Yeah.

On your website you also talk about this very fascinating

concept called Embodied Leader.

. And, and I'm not quite clear whether or not I understand what that means.

So I'll be the dummy in the room and praise my hand.

Like Michelle, like, what do you mean by embodied leadership?

I mean, aren't I already embodied?

I mean, look at my corporate form.

Like, what exactly are you talking about?

Beautiful.

Yes.

I, the, the idea comes from, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

, our, our words have power.

I do not underestimate them, but what, what the power is,

is how we ize them words.

So we have words that we, physical, we can't, we can't be angry

and say happy words, you know?

They just, you know, our, our body aligns with the words we're choosing.

It's, it's naturalist from the moment we're born.

You know, it's very difficult to be that.

That in control of it.

And I think also our body tells a story constantly, even when we're not talking.

So again, from mistakes, when I was in the bad mood, everybody knew about

it and I hadn't opened my mouth.

You know, that gray cloud of shoes on geo, you know?

And I think that my whole, again, everything I wanna do is I wanna help

you not make them, don't to not make the mistakes I made along the way.

And understanding that leadership and our industry cuz it's a

performance, that's what we're in.

If you are, whether you are even back house or front house, we

are socially, we are connected to each other with an energy.

That's what drives the passion of our industry.

Yeah.

And so the embodiment is in any form of leadership is keeper in our in.

It's like up there so much more because if the volume level is

turned up in our industry mm-hmm.

, we're not sat in a little office where everyone's quiet, you

know, we are, we are there.

Yeah.

That's step that reminds me of a concept of a somatic response, which is Yeah,

which is a physically embodied response.

Very often during moments of stress, there's an opportunity to do ETF tapping

and things of that sort because it.

Only because we've gotten used to living in our heads and talking from our

heads as opposed to actually relating to what's actually going in our body.

Yeah.

How do you feel, Jim?

What can you smell?

What can you touch?

What you've, you know, all of that.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

You, I mean, this stuff is all fascinating to me.

And we were talking about something right before the show started,

Michelle, that I'm really curious to hear more about, and I think it was

one of your, your top three steps.

Something like that to help people move forward in their leadership.

But this concept of small talk, can you get into, I, I think it's amazing how you

take something that some people either don't even think about, some people don't

like, you know, some people have a hard time with, but everybody does every day.

This concept of, can you talk to us about this concept of how small

talkin helped improve leadership?

Yeah, of course.

And this goes on to like having time as well.

So for every manager that says, I don't have time for a one-to-one,

you know, we all know that human beings, we need to be seen and heard.

And again, in our industry struggling, we need to be spending

more time being seen and heard.

So, The power of small talk came about because what can we do in our businesses

daily while we're polishing the cutlery, while we're taking the bin side where

we, where we're having family meal to be able to create these moments.

So the power of small talk is just that.

What are we doing?

Chatting with each other, looking each other eyes.

Seeing each other and how can we, the benefits of small talk

is, is creating belonging.

It's creating respect.

It's creating connection, and what can we do?

It's two simple things like going in every day and making sure you know

every single person's name and you say hi to everyone, especially as a leader.

You know, don't be coming anywhere near me.

If you're a leader and you don't know everyone's name in your team,

don't be coming anywhere near me.

Walk right back out.

Like basics, respect.

Hello, how are you?

How's your day?

Our job as well to inspire and excite people.

Yeah.

You know?

So can I ask you a a, maybe there's a, it's funny cuz I'm

gonna ask you this question and it, it.

about somebody who I worked with for a very long time.

Yes.

That was maybe one of the worst small talkers I've ever experienced in my life.

Yeah.

And it came across as ingenuine.

So this person, and we used to joke about, and two, you know, with this

person, but we used to joke about it all the time, is his go-to line was what's

going on in your neck of the woods?

Oh wow.

And he would literally say that to everybody in an

attempt to create small talk.

Yeah.

And I think he genuinely was trying to.

. But it, it kind of became across as the, as though it wasn't genuine.

So how do you help somebody who's maybe not comfortable doing that?

Because you're right, there's so much power, there's so much opportunity,

there's so much, you know, it's a way to show people that you care about

how they're doing, but how do you help people who are maybe going, I don't

even know what to say or what to ask.

I think one, don't ask the same question to every single person.

If you find out something, if you don't, you need to, A part of the Paris Mode

small talk is making sure you see every.

One as an individual.

So you should be already trying to find something out about their lives that has

nothing to do, maybe with the work itself.

And so if you actually, if you are somebody who finds it not so

comfortable anyway, you have to find out things personally about someone.

So then you can go back with a genuine question.

How was your weekend with your, your mother?

Did you have a nice holiday?

So there's questions that are.

To that other person.

The other thing you have to think about, if someone's an introvert,

their key skill is listening.

Listening to understand.

Do not listen to respond.

Keep your mouth shut and pay attention to what's being said.

Listen to understand.

Do not listen to respond.

So if you are that type of character as well, use your superpower

as an introvert to listen.

Cause you'll pick up a lot more about what's going on than

somebody like, than me there.

You know, ferociously running through

a room.

. The other thing that strikes me is you know, I've had conversations with

service staff and trainings where, you know, coming to the table and

says was, how was everything tonight?

You know, generalist like that.

To me, that just shows that sh that he or she's not really

concerned about my experience.

However, if I walk up to the table and I see a, you know, a nice 10 ounce

piece of tuna seared half eaten, Can use that on a pickup and like, oh, so

how was the tuna like to be able to dial into something that's specific to them.

And Michelle, I, I can't tell you how like thrilling this is because I

recognize that, you know, the benefit of small talk, first off small talk,

it minimizes what, what the impact is.

Because really what I think you are telling us to do is not only to bring

our whole selves to work, but also allow everybody else to bring their whole and

to recognize that in the moment, right?

Yeah.

Completely, completely.

It.

And with every, we know and we support the Bo chef, you know, this small talk are

the moments that we might catch someone, I'll get upset now that we may catch

somebody that is having a tough time.

And by us taking this moment to think, that is part of my job to see

people, to hear people to listen.

We might catch them when they do need something.

And your point as well, Adam, is you've got to be specific.

You, you can't just say thank you to people.

What am I thanking you?

Thank you for running into my section with me and jumping

in when we were in the weeds.

Thank you.

Like get specific.

We've got, we're ever gonna layer one or we're go in layer 2, 3, 4.

Oh.

The problem is when you go general it, that's when it

feels inauthentic, right, Jim?

Yeah.

It's like you're not really like, of course, did he or she actually see me?

Or is this kind of like a blanket strategy in order to keep me quiet or calm or

whatever that Yeah.

And Michelle, to your point, what you're talking about there, And I, I love

how you, you talk about it in terms of the, call it small talk, because that's

kind of, that is what it is, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But you know, if you say that the term small, talk to somebody,

there's usually not a positive connection to that terminology.

But that's what it is.

And I think, you know, Adam, we've talked about this lots before, and,

and Michelle, you and I too, about the importance of protecting the employee.

Yeah.

Protecting the people we work with, protecting the, the experience.

You know, people aren't okay with just a 2% raise in a pizza party anymore.

They wanna work for somebody who's gonna protect them.

Yeah.

And it sounds okay.

It sounds cheesy protection, right?

But it's true.

You get, you have to make sure

you take care of people and protect their experience.

Yeah, I, there's, after, after article, blog post research studies, it all comes

back down to like the top three things is staff wanna feel appreciated seen.

and have a clear channel of communication and.

If we're not attempting to see them beyond what they do for us in that

particular moment, like I said, it could come across as being disingenuous,

like they don't really care about it actually would probably hurt worse to

hear that, to know that like he, like that person's trying to make an effort,

yet they won't even go all that way, but.

I won't believe it.

The point, because I wanna be conscious of time because this is all about solutions.

Michelle, you gave one the benefit of small talk.

So gimme two other ideas that someone can walk outta here after

listening this and actually put in a practice to uplevel their, I'm

not even gonna call it management, their, their leadership skills.

Yeah.

And these are life skills, but we going on nicely to what

you said about appreciation.

The number two step I would give you is gracious feedback.

Yeah.

People need feedback and we need to show appreciation.

And there's two ways to appreciate, there's one on one appreciation

cuz some people like it small, they, they're more humble, they

don't want it called out loads.

And there's other people who want it like in pre-meal.

You know, they wanna have all or it the team effort, you know, like

motivation is driven successfully by teams, not by individuals, you know?

So I think it's gracious feedback or you need to be in the moment given feedback.

That's the good stuff.

The appreciation.

Think of it individually and think of it publicly when and when also.

You should have a culture of that given feedback of going, I believe in you.

I think we can get you toed.

We're probably at QR at the moment.

It's my responsibility to help you get up there and these are the steps

we need to do to get you there.

And I'm doing this because I believe in you cuz I'm investing in you.

Feedback allows people to grow.

Feedback allows people that I'm going to invest in you

because you deserve to be more.

Otherwise, if I don't want feedback, no problem at all.

You know, again, out the door,

you know, but, but you did say it was like gracious feedback, right?

A way of which giving it so that, you know, I'm always struck

by like how many skill sets we actually employ in this industry.

And one of them is, In order to be heard or understood, you have

to speak in a language that that person will will get it right.

So,

yeah.

And on their own you only give constructive feedback graciously

on graciously their own.

Never in public, I don't care how busy it is, there's a time and a place.

You know that the moment you, the moment you publicly give constructive feedback,

even if graciously you've just made that person feel embarrassed, it's not gonna,

they're not gonna get anything from it.

You've wasted your time, you've made them feel bad.

You have to wait until you are on your own to give the constructive feedback, whereas

the praise go for your life publicly

as you like.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

And number.

This is a leadership journey, which comes back to what

you mentioned earlier, this, I have three stages of leadership

and first stage is self leadership.

Yeah.

Until, until you become self-aware, until you can self-manage up, down,

left, right, whichever way you wanna be.

You have to know that wherever you are in your career, it doesn't matter if

you've just started, you are on your journey of leadership cuz it's your life.

You are leading, you are on your journey of leadership.

So stage one, know about what do you want, what do you wanna be,

who do you wanna be as a person?

Leadership is not about hierarchy.

Leadership is about wanting to drive something forward and wanting to be part

of it, and to watch your self leader.

, become aware of it.

Wherever you are, whatever age you are, self-awareness, self-management,

what you need to learn about yourself.

The second part of the leadership journey is the power of influence,

connections, networking.

You know, especially when you are in that mid management level or you working

between departments, you that influence.

You can have, you know, whether you're an introvert or an

extrovert, know your superpowers.

That that really can move things forwards as a community.

Yes, and we need to, I don't think I networked enough now.

Jim kindly is showing me how to LinkedIn network and it's flying.

I don't think I networked enough when I was younger and I would genuinely.

Say you need people, you never know what they can do for you.

And the last part would be that then you get to classic leadership,

which is other leadership, where you are responsible for people.

They'll ask yourself the question, do I wanna be responsible for other people?

Not everybody likes it.

Such a great question.

Yeah.

That's so good.

So I wanna be, I don't, some people don't want it.

Don't do it.

There's other ways.

Do

Lee, I, I talked to somebody last night that where they

were in a position that where they really loved, they really excelled

and managed and said, well, okay, so they do really well over here.

Let's put them over here.

And their not only their, like, their response to the employment,

like they went into depression, like they couldn't handle, like, it

was a different mindset for them.

And you know, Michelle, to your point that, you know, leadership's only job

is to nurture relationships within the.

I don't think can be like, like that should be ringing in.

Everybody's there all the time.

Your only job Yeah.

Is creating relationship.

Yeah.

And you know that thing of other leadership, the moment you become this

classic team hierarchical leadership Yeah.

It is not about you.

It is about them.

And that is where we get it completely wrong.

It is about them every single moment.

Right.

Yeah, I well said . Now, now that's so true.

Again, I gotta be, you know the bad guy on the dock and just say,

Hey, I think we're out of time.

Which is such a shame because if, Michelle, I'm pretty clear that Jim and

I could be here a couple hours with you talking about this kind of stuff, and I

know that there's things that I wanted to dip into that we didn't have time for.

So first off, I would respectfully ask, can we invite you back?

Would you like to come back on

the show?

It's like Brittany Brown when she has a costume.

Yes, I would, yes,

I would.

Cause I, Jim, I don't know if it's just me, but I get, I get the impression

that Michelle, once she gets that motor running, man, there's no stopping her

Yeah, there's, and from what I know of Michelle, she's got

a ton of value to offer and there's lots more where this came from.

So, I mean, I think.

15 different questions ready to go for you for the next time, so

Absolutely.

Hopefully we can have you.

Yeah.

And we didn't even get into like your work experience, the fact

that you've worked all over the world in many different situations.

For a time you were even kind of like living that jet set.

Lifestyle that a lot, that a lot of people would aspire to,

only to kind of discover that.

Yeah.

You know, that's cracked up to be.

Yeah.

Look, it's gorgeous parts of it, but I was a, I was a woman at

board level, being the only woman in many board meetings and you know, I, I, you

know, I've got that bits of passion for me too, to get more women up to that area.

So yeah, there's, there's pros and cons.

It was glamorous and fabulous and I was na you know,

. Adam Lamb: So in a sentence, what

. Michelle Moreno: I am determined

industry great and to make people want to love it so they can have the

memories that may even close that.

I have been lucky enough to have myself

falling back in love.

I'm just putting this in the chat cuz that's just grew you.

Oh.

I feel like that's a song outta.

Jim, anything, any last words for Michelle?

I mean, now, now her motor's running.

Like, I don't know how she's gonna go

to sleep, but that's, yeah.

Well, Michelle, thank you so much.

I think the, my big takeaway is the small talk saying, I mean,

I, it just takes a different spin on, on what that whole concept is.

I think I personally believe in never saying no to a conversation, whether

that's with someone I don't know, or with somebody you know, at the

staff level, or an employee or some, a colleague, whatever that might.

You know, I think I, I've got a new lens to look through in terms of the small

talk things, so thank you for that.

Yeah.

Well, thank you.

Thank you Michelle, for your time and your expertise and your enthusiasm and

yes, we're so excited to have you back.

And I just want to reiterate, so there's the benefit of small talk.

There is I'm just looking back at my notes.

The benefit of gracious feedback.

Correct?

Yeah.

And then number three is the three stages of leadership and being conscious enough

to know where you're at in that space.

Where if you're in the lower echelon, then that's probably a time for seeking

out mentors or or other leaders to kind of emulate and network with.

And then as you move forward, then it becomes much less about you and

more about the people that you.

So kind of tying that all up in a bow and thank you very much for that

wisdom and we really look forward to

having you back.

Thank you so much for having me, Jen.

You have a luck day

. Adam Lamb: Thanks Michelle, and we

Thursday, 12 o'clock Eastern time on Turning the Table podcast page.