It's time for Barbecue Nation with jt so fire up your grill, light the charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.

Now from the Turn It, Don't Burn it studios in Portland, here's jt.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to Barbecue Nation.

I'm jt along with my co host, hall of Famer Leanne Whippen, coming to you from the respective Turn It, Don't Burn it studios in Portland and Tampa.

We would like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef Beef the way nature intended, and also the good folks at the Oregon Dungeness Crab Commission.

That is great stuff.

If you've never had West Coast Dungeness crab, you're missing out, so check them out online.

And also the good folks at Painted Hills.

Well, we got a very.

Excuse me.

We've got a very honored guest with us today, John Marcus, who is an Emmy award winning writer and director and creator of the original Barbecue Pit Masters.

Fascinating guy.

And we're going to get more into that.

And John also happens to be in the Barbecue hall of fame with Ms.

Whippen.

So I always.

Same class.

Same class, I might add.

Same class.

Yeah, I'm always the third wheel.

Yeah, I'm always the third wheel.

When we get the hall of Famers in here, I'm like.

But anyway, John, welcome to the show.

It's a treat to be here.

I've listened, and I really was looking forward to this because I'm a fan of both ears.

So thank you for.

For having me.

And I also think that, Leanne, you and I were in a very special inductee year of the Barbecue hall of Fame.

I agree.

I mean, I'm not to say anything bad about the years that have followed.

There have only been two, correct?

Yes.

Well, there.

Yeah.

Two, Right.

Yeah.

I can do math.

You got to be able to if you barbecue.

And I know you well, so, you know, you do that.

But that was a.

That was a quite an honor and a thrilling phone call to get.

And I would probably be pointed out to me right now by Meathead, because that is his legal name.

Yeah.

He would say to me, well, you know, I got in before you.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Very competitive guy.

Yes, yes.

He's earned the right.

But, oh, my gosh, he can.

He.

He really.

He has not lost the fire.

No.

So let me ask you this.

Did I see that you got your phb?

I do have my php.

I kneeled before Artie Davis, and I.

Want to do that.

I want to go through the process.

I haven't done it.

My dad had it and, yeah, when I saw that, I'm like, that's so cool.

I didn't know that anybody was really still doing that, but it's a cool thing.

Mine came probably eight, nine years ago, and it was a great honor.

And along with Nicole Davenport.

Davenport, who's the Texas steak master and great.

And one of the people that taught me how to cook pit barbecue.

We.

We both got.

I guess you say, like, knighted.

It's like being.

And he has a whole ritual that he does, and.

And it's serious.

And I got this mop.

This mop that he's written, you know, the honor upon this.

Upon the stick of the mop, and I have it framed in my house upstate.

And there's not a person that walks by it that knows what the hell it is.

You really have to stop and say, well, that's a basting mop.

But not in this case.

That's how you.

Yeah, that's cool.

So, John, I wanted to ask you, how's the.

How's the barbecue addiction thing coming with you?

My personal barbecue addiction, you mean?

Yes, yes.

Well, I always say that it was started as a hobby, but now it's a hobby in need of an intervention, so.

Addiction is a good word.

I am still hopelessly addicted to the process of low and slow outdoor smoking of these proteins.

I still love it.

And I have these events coming up.

I'm.

You know, I haul out the.

The rotisseries I have on the trailer.

One of them being a jed that Leanne knows all about.

Yep.

And then I have another smoker that was delivered to me and never worked properly, and I stripped it out and turned it into a jet.

And it's beautiful piece of work.

I won't go into who gave me that smoker.

I know.

But it was sold to me in a way that didn't seem to function.

So I got that done.

It was funny.

I had this pit, and I.

No one north of the Mason Dixon line really knows how this stuff is made.

Barbecue is made.

They do now, more so because of the TV show.

I think it's helped awareness of barbecue.

And now people are doing it.

You can see.

I can see, like, barbecue joints springing up.

But I had this project I wanted to do to convert this smoker, and there were welders in this abandoned warehouse in Hudson, New York, two guys who looked like they could have been part of a heavy metal band.

And they.

They welded in the dark in this big shop, and they got work, a lot of work.

They're very good.

And I drove the pit into the floor, onto the floor of this warehouse.

And they looked at it and they said, well, what does it do?

And I said, well, the purpose here is to cook meat with smoke and embers over low temperature.

But I have these ideas.

And that was the first time they'd ever seen a pit.

Wow.

And that was great for me to have to put into words what it should do.

Right.

And they did a fantastic job.

They did a fantastic job.

And it's one of my favorite things to cook on now.

That's great for you.

Good for you.

What?

So that.

Is that the long winded answer to am I still addicted?

Yes.

Yeah, that's okay.

That's okay.

And we promise no intervention today.

Okay.

But you're going to have to come and find me, Jeff.

But.

Okay.

All right.

I'm pretty good at finding people.

Okay.

What prompted all this for you?

What prompted your interest in barbecue and low and slow and then graduated up to putting it on television?

It was, it was an unexpected turn in my life's events.

I mean, I been busy writing for TV and, and still write now.

I write mostly for the theater.

I mean, I'm primarily a writer.

And, and, and I was writing a project up at my house.

I, I had.

Or had a pilot ordered with Al Franken, the alumni of Saturday Night Live.

Right.

Bestselling author, former senator.

At the time.

He had been, he had been a writer and a performer on snl and he'd also published these books, a couple of them.

And I didn't know anything about barbecue.

I grew up in Ohio, middle of Ohio, which now they have an awareness.

Right.

And you, both of you must know people in the Midwest now who are.

Barbecue in the upper Midwest, like.

Right.

It's not so much in Ohio.

A few.

Yeah, a few.

I don't know what it is about my state.

Maybe it's the fact that it's the gateway to the Midwest or it's the crossovers, I don't know.

But it is not a big deal there in any way.

A couple of places in Columbus now, and I'm sure in Cleveland as well.

Yeah.

Michael.

Michael Simon would beg to differ because isn't he Ohio?

Yeah, he is.

Yes.

I remember as a kid there was a place in Cincinnati called Montgomery Brothers where you could get mail order ribs from them.

They were on.

They had a restaurant on the river there and you could go and get like spares there and all of it was parboiled.

Oh, geez.

But you know you love what you grow up with, right?

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

That's what you love.

And so I didn't know what this cuisine was.

And Al, during one of our writing sessions, he saw a unused Weber kettle on my.

On my patio.

It was just shiny and new because I didn't use it.

I bought it because I had a house, and I thought I should, but didn't use it.

He said, you don't know this about me, John, but I'm a grillmeister.

Wow.

I make the best ribs in New England.

And I thought, like, what?

That was a very confusing title to take, you know?

Right.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But we set about making his ribs, which involved marinating them in hefty bags with a couple of pounds of sugar and a bushel of garlic and gallons of soy sauce.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

And he wanted me to get that charcoal grill as hot as possible.

And he cooked those in 25 minutes.

Wow.

We sat down to eat, and I'm ignorant of what it's supposed to be.

We sat down to eat, and I couldn't even chew them.

And he ate all his.

And he ate all mine.

That, you know, they.

I'd gnawed on him a little bit.

He just finished them all.

And a switch went off in my head.

What is this?

Why is it a beloved cuisine?

And who the hell can I find to show me how to do it?

Yeah.

And all research at that point pointed to Paul Kirk.

Oh, sure.

Paul Kirk, the baron of barbecue.

Yeah.

Oh, we've all had dealings with Paul.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

He's a character, too.

He was.

He's.

Oh, my.

He's an original.

Yeah.

And.

And, you know, also a pathfinder.

Let's call him that.

I mean, he.

His book on rubs and sauces, I think is one of the best books, a How to books of barbecue.

I don't know how you guys feel about it.

I have it.

And I agree.

I have it.

I agree.

Yeah, yeah.

Simple, straightforward.

This is what you can do.

And so I called his home.

I got the phone number because the Internet was new then, but I got Paul Kirk's home phone number, and his daughter answered the phone, and she was in a terrible mood.

And I introduced myself and said, I want to learn how to do this.

And Paul seems to be the guy I can learn from.

And she said, well, he's got me.

He's got me in the house all day making his damn sauce.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Yeah, I know.

And I can't stand doing this.

And.

And.

And, look, look, I don't know who you Are.

But if you want to learn from my dad, write him a check for $500 and you can go cook with them.

That's what I did.

Yeah.

And.

And I got on an airplane and his directions were, rent a car at the airport at Kansas City and drive to Lenexa, Kansas.

And at Lenexa, there's a Lenexa barbecue battle, which is the oldest contest in the U.S.

and I was on Paul's team, and Paul's team consisted of me and Paul.

He found himself a sucker.

Yeah.

And he, and he was himself.

It was like he gave me a hard time about things.

He, you know, to him, what's this?

He thought of me as a New Yorker, even though I'm an Ohio guy.

Like, what does he know and why, you know, And.

And it was sort of a baptism by fire.

Sure.

Yeah.

And then I got to meet the really wonderful people associated with the kcbs.

Carolyn Wells was there, Artie was there, all that crew, that original crew.

So it was a really fortunate introduction to the field.

And I, I'm forever grateful to Paul, but I'm even more grateful to Al Franken for serving me shitty ribs.

There you go.

There you go.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to be back with John Marcus and more stories from the barbecue wars.

As far as him coming up through the ranks, you might say, on Barbecue Nation.

Stay with us.

Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.

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Welcome back to the Nation.

I'm JT along with hall of famer Leanne Whippen.

If you want to find us, we've got links on all the main site to get to all the different sites that Leanne and I have.

And it's just barbecue nation, jt.com.

yeah, you can get to her sites, her social media, my sites, my social media, all that stuff.

It's all good.

Well, we're talking with John Marcus today.

Not only a Hall of Famer, but an Emmy winning writer, director.

Feel.

I don't want to say theologian.

What's the right term I'm looking for there, John, as far as proselytizer.

Yes.

Yeah.

Barbecue.

And.

So did your friends in the, in the writing circles, in the media circles, if you will.

Did they look at you like, what in the hell are you doing?

You know, I have a friend.

I'll tell you two examples.

I have an old.

One of my oldest friends here is a movie director named Joe Rubin.

And we know each other quite well.

Where he's my eating buddy, and he knows food.

And we.

In Manhattan, we go out to eat.

We're always complaining about the meals we get here.

Everything in Manhattan is like a disappointment, basically.

I hate to say it, but you.

You get charged a lot of money.

These restaurants are touted as fantastic.

You gotta go.

And then you go.

And then it's sort of, like, disappointing.

But Joe said that when I began the hobby, he would have bet his whole bank account that I would have lost interest in a month.

He.

And he couldn't believe, you know, I was bringing home some equipment I was starting, very simple.

I started with a Weber Smokey Mountain.

And because Paul said, don't spend money.

You don't need money.

Don't spend a lot of money on the meat, and don't spend money on equipment.

Just learn how to do it a very simple way.

Great advice.

I give that advice often.

And.

And Joe was surprised to see that the hobby grew and grew and the equipment got bigger.

The, you know, friends were coming up to my house to try it.

But the person that was the most surprised by this sudden change in my life was my psychotherapist.

He.

He was a Freudian, so he doesn't talk much.

He's no longer with us.

He died at 91 years of age.

He.

He actually spoke up during one of my.

My sessions.

Imagine.

I mean, I'm lying on a couch.

Because that's old school.

Right?

And.

And out of the middle of nowhere he goes, where the hell did this barbecue thing come from with you?

And it was a great thing to hear him say because I had to figure that out.

You know, I'm paying this guy good money to lie down there and talk.

And.

And it was a good thing to think about on a personal level.

That barbecue for me is about creating community.

Community.

And in your colleagues, the people who you learn from, who cook community.

And the people that get to come and eat food like they could not have anywhere near where they live.

Yeah.

People like I.

I mostly serve Yankees.

Right, right.

Like you said, it's the.

You're well above the Manson Nixon line.

So the man.

Yes, I'm well above it.

First time I've heard it call that.

And that's right.

And.

And when you have people.

People go, like, I've Never had this before.

I've never had anything like this.

Because we all know that at a certain level of this food, cooking it, and you guys do it, and we know people that do it, that it is.

It is an otherworldly experience.

You get to taste things like nothing else around.

Do you find, John, that one of your greatest pleasures is when you're.

You've got friends over whatever, and you're serving ribs.

Tri tips, doesn't matter.

And they smile and they look at you and they kind of mutter about how good it is and, and that I, I find that, personally, I think Leanne does too.

That's one of my greatest joys in life.

I.

I agree.

I agree totally with that.

I'll add to it that the night before I'm going to be barbecuing because as we know, it's a full day affair.

Often the actor getting his product the night before I go to bed with the smile.

I put my head on a pillow, knowing what I get to do the next day.

Yeah, Yeah.

I can't say I feel that way at a contest.

No problem.

I don't do contests anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

But I did a party.

I did a party last weekend for if I love you, I will do barbecue for you.

I cooked a wedding reception for two people.

I love someone who I adore.

Her husband was having an 84th birthday party and he likes my ribs.

That.

Which are competition style.

Who doesn't like those, right?

Yeah.

And it was a full day cook.

I had to have two pits working to get the food done because there were 40 people.

And it was one of the great days.

It was such a good day.

I mean, I get pleasure from a script, but, you know, the thing about a script is it's years in the making and it's heartbreak and disappointment, but a good smooth cook is like, almost like a nice.

Like you're getting to take Ambien or something.

Yeah.

I never thought of it that way, but that's true.

I just.

It is medicinal.

I mean, I find cooking in general, it takes my mind off of things and I find it relaxes me.

And.

Yeah, it's like chill mode, except in competition.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it's very therapeutic.

Back to your shrink, John.

But I think it's very therapeutic because I get lost in that world.

Everything else is shut out for a period of time.

Right.

It's like, it's like you kind of disappear because you've got so many tasks.

What?

You know, I've had people come up and stay with Me during a cook at my house, and they have no idea all the moving parts in making barbecue.

Right.

It's.

It's.

It's a day of prep.

It's a day of cooking.

It's a day of cleanup.

And it's a little dangerous sometimes to work with these hot surfaces.

And, sure, you know, I'm always getting injured when I cook, but I see the little scars and burn marks here and there as my badges of honor.

Yes, yes, yes.

So.

But it is.

It is.

It's hard to communicate that to others.

But, you know, I've gotten to the point that I don't even mind the cleanup anymore.

I did for a long time.

And when I had a.

Well, I had a.

Excuse me.

Gosh.

I had a catering company, and so I always had people to help, you know, clean up and all that, and I don't anymore.

And I just find it buys me, if you will, an extra day of solitude or an extra half day.

Whatever it takes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, Jeff, I would say to you, if you gotten to the point where you don't mind cleanup, now I'll tell you where I live.

Okay.

I'll even get a plane ticket.

That's.

Okay.

All right.

Hey, we're.

I steam clean my own pits.

You know, I.

I used to have someone come and do that, but I just decided, you know, it's good for me to do it.

I really feel it is actually a character builder.

Oh, yeah.

To learn how to do it in a way that you don't.

You know, you still maintain your patina and your.

Yeah, absolutely.

Hey, we're going to take another break.

We're going to be back with Emmy winning John Marcus Barbecue hall of Fame.

I almost said Pitmasters hall of fame.

And we're going to talk about pit masters when we come back.

Stay with us.

Hey, everybody, it's jt And I have eaten.

If you've ever looked at me, you know that.

But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab.

If you want to learn more about Oregon Dungeness crab, just go to oregondungeness.org and find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.

Check it out.

Welcome back to the nation again.

We'd like to thank the folks at Painter Hills Natural beef.

Beef the way nature intended.

And little drum roll here, Leanne.

Pig powder.

Pig powder.

My Dad's dry rub.

John, you know pig powder?

I do.

I know it.

Yeah.

So, yes, pigpowder.com you can get 24 ounces right now.

They were out of stock, and I'm working on some label adjustments, and then the little guys will be in.

But one best rub on the planet, and a lot of competitors use it and people in general, and you can get it on Amazon as well.

I still think you should send autographed photographs with an order of.

Well, it's funny.

We have John on the show now.

I remember when we were shooting these pictures for barbecue pit masters, and I have a big log with a hatchet in it that I had to throw over my shoulder for the photo shoot.

And I'm like, how are they going to get that hatchet in there?

Well, they took like, a chainsaw and then grooved it and then put the hatchet in there.

And I remember holding it, and it was getting heavier and heavier and heavier.

Anyway, John, what possessed you to do pit masters?

I mean, you created it and you directed it.

It was your babies.

Did you see a need for it?

Was it more out of love for your love for barbecue?

Or what was the.

As they would say in Hollywood, what's the thought behind this?

What's the thought behind it?

Well, to really get to the thought of barbecue pit masters, we got to go back to All Star Barbecue Showdown, sure was suggested to me and co executive produced with me and actually starring Chris Lilly, the great Chris Lilly, who, when I was doing.

I was recording a radio show at Big Bob Gibson in Decatur, Alabama, with Chris.

They graciously allowed me to come and interview people.

I was doing a thing, a segment called Good Ribbon for Al Franken, who had a liberal radio show at the time.

And we would.

I would go around the country.

I took my love of barbecue, the beginning of it, and I would interview people about who has the best ribs and where we are and talk about barbecue as part of these political segments.

And at the end of the segment, Chris pitched me, why can't you do Iron Chef for barbecue?

So the whole idea of a competition show posted that way was something that Chris had suggested to me.

And then together we developed it into a TV series and sold it to the Outdoor Life Network, which had a maple leaf.

A maple leaf logo in the corner.

And it actually had been nicknamed the Hook and Bullet Network.

I remember back in the day.

And this is.

This is about a decade ago.

And we did the show, which was just basically kind of a competition piggybacked on Another competition.

And that's how the show began.

But then I decided at a certain point, Chris went off to do his things and I decided, well, what would it be like to do a documentary style show about teams competing and follow real teams around actual contests?

And that's what gave life to barbecue pitmasters.

So.

And that show is still in reruns even though they.

They turned it back to a competition series.

And everywhere I go in the world of barbecue, I hear the same thing, which is, John, everything after season one sucks.

How did you connect?

I get that, too.

And a lot of people.

A lot of people want to know if you're going to bring back the old style one.

Yeah, I, you know, I do the show again with in a heartbeat because that's the show.

That's really what the pure, authentic show was supposed to be.

And I loved what we did with those stories and we were pretty true to the field.

When you say, having been absolutely part of that show, Liam.

Yeah.

It was not scripted.

It was.

It was the real deal.

It was well edited because there was a lot of footage, obviously, when you're doing overnight cooks and traveling and this and that, but.

And it wasn't like we had to win every contest.

It was the journey of doing what you do whether you win or lose.

You know, that's right.

And that gave it a drama and you liked everybody.

But the reason the network canceled it and decided to revamp it is they were upset that our members weren't winning every week.

That's why they canceled it.

Well, your people aren't winning.

And I said, well, that's the heartbreak is part of the whole thing.

If we're going to do a real show, this is what really happens.

And it's interesting whether they win or not.

Right?

Well, that didn't work.

You know, John, I wasn't on a barbecue reality show.

I was on a food show, which shall rename, remain nameless because I thought it was horrible.

But when I went in to do the shoot and we were down in Georgia and we were doing the shoot, I figured out about 20 minutes into this deal that they already had their winners picked and this.

And I was.

And when I.

When I really found that out is when I went to get the supplies for my original recipe, you had to send in three recipes.

Okay.

And I went to do this, and they said, oh, you can't do that one, because we've never seen that type of thing at a state fair.

And I said, well, I live on the west coast and I've Traveled all over the country many times, been to a lot of state fairs.

And I.

You could see this at any state fair.

No, you can't.

So I had to do my second one.

Then they mislabeled it intentionally as a breakfast item, which it was not.

And in fact, one of the judges said, well, where's the syrup?

And I said, there's no syrup in this thing.

And so it really, you know, kind of.

Well, one, it offended me, but nobody cares about that.

But two, I just thought, what a disservice to the viewer.

Well, they, unfortunately, the worst of television and I buy worst.

I'm talking about the ethics and the approach to the audience that some networks have, which is they think less of people, they feel things have to be dumbed down or relatable.

And no hit show has ever been developed with those condescending attitudes toward an audience.

No hit show comes out of that.

It shows.

And, and the fact that our show, you know, season one of Pit Masters is still there and still, it just shows you that it, we were, we never tried to manipulate anything.

Leanne, you know, I know you're going to give me the right answer here, but you were.

That's true.

We, I stood up for the Pit Masters and, and, and, and Brian Catalina was somebody who understood that and he had to get his show done.

But we, we didn't have to compromise the truth ever, right?

What it takes to cook this food.

And that's what made it, the grittiness of it and the heartbreak of it was really interesting.

And I, I don't know if I've told you this, but year four of barbecue Pitmasters, when it was full on game show, just a friggin game show.

I asked to have a meeting with the head of the network at Destination America, which I don't think exists anymore.

It's another name now.

The network.

Got some American destination.

Oh, okay, maybe, I don't know.

Well, I had a, I had a lunch with this gentleman and this is the first time in my career I've, of course, I've never worked in a, on a barbecue show my whole other career.

But I asked him, after the salads were consumed if he would please cancel the show.

What did he say?

He looked at me like, who's this fucking lunatic I've got?

I said, look, I'm here to offer any possible ways to take what it is now and make it better, but if you guys don't want to listen to any of these ideas, please take it off the air.

And he just looked at me, you know, chewing his lunch and said, no, we're not doing that.

And lunch was over soon after that.

Yeah, because I thought they were hurting the field because it was dumbed down by people that felt like America can't get certain things.

And, you know, it's typical.

There are networks where they respect the intelligence audience, but I.

I sadly say this was not one of them.

Well, some of the.

I don't want to get off in the weeds.

We'll do that in after hours.

But one of the things I've noticed on the barbecue shows is they've become very much the same.

Repetitive.

They're very repetitive.

And, yeah, you see somebody in their trailer injecting their briskets or doing whatever, and I know it works for them.

That's fine.

But then they go to the next trailer and the next trailer, and it's the same thing.

And like you said, John, they're not really.

They're not really sharing cook techniques.

They're not really sharing any inside baseball, if you will.

It's just like, oh, yeah, I do this and I'm up at 4 in the morning and blah, blah, blah.

And, yeah, I find them kind of boring.

It bores me to death.

And what they're doing, it's like, you know, back in the day when the word was Xerox, which they don't use anymore because no one's Xeroxing.

But if you get to the seventh or eighth copy of something, it just starts to look a little faded and worn, and you can't really read it.

That's what happens.

It's like, we're going to copy that original show, and let's face it, they all copy that original show.

If you look at that very, very expensive Netflix barbecue show, there are a lot of elements of our show that are on it, and God bless them for doing what they're doing, and at least they're spending a lot of money in the production.

But it feels like we know it all already.

We know this, and there are ways to show it anew, which is what I would love to do next if I.

If I did another one, is there are ways to, like, make the stakes higher, to have more fun with.

With process and method and.

And to learn things and to have certain experts on and.

But I don't know where I'm gonna sell that one.

Yeah, that might.

That might be a little tough.

Yeah, it's.

It's a.

Well, as you know very well, and I know Leanne knows TV is a kind of a ruthless business at Times and all you, you know, to.

I think, to mimic what we're saying.

John, all you have to do is look at Hollywood and all the remakes they make of movies.

Nobody wants to write an original script.

That's the way I.

Well, they want.

They're out there.

The scripts are.

But nobody wants to fund it.

Yeah.

Because they're afraid of the low, you know, low box office and go with what, you know.

And by the way, we have to do that because we need to make the money to do the independent things.

But.

But they're not making the money as much anymore.

So there.

Now that independent side is really drying up.

Yes.

It's rare to get to see something.

It happens.

I'm always hopeful.

I'm always hopeful, but there's a lot of stuff out there that I just don't understand why they're making it.

Yeah.

Are you seeing AI impeding on your creativity in the business you're in as far as writing?

The answer to that is yes, and only because I think it's a dirty secret that it's out there.

I mean, we went on strike for weeks and weeks because of AI and we're told we got some regulation as part of arc, our settlement, as part of our new contract.

There is some regulation, but there's often no way to know it's being used.

They may hire you as the original writer to go in and write a script, but they're going to put it through AI All AI does, it's hoovered up every script there is.

I'm an AI.

Yeah.

You know, the things I've written are an AI and they're going to just really, like, regurgitate it.

It's like, listen, I like a good egg McMuffin as much as anybody, but I'm telling you, you eat the other McDonald's stuff and it feels like, wait a minute.

This is all the same thing right between the bread.

It feel.

It's the same.

And I think Steve Martin used to do a joke where it's like, well, you know, for McDonald's, they just have this big, like, you know, lever that they pull and the same thing comes out.

Yeah.

Better.

But, yeah, no, I.

I worry that we don't have an audience that objects to that.

That's the problem.

Yes.

Don't have an audience saying, like, no, no, no, no, don't put that on me.

I don't want it.

But they, you know, they're okay with it.

For some reason, they feel like they don't know.

Very possible.

Very possible.

Hey, we Got to take another break.

We're going to come back and talk with John some more here on Barbecue Nation.

Stay with us.

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Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.

We'd like to thank Gorilla Grills, Heritage Steel, and Hammersaw knives there.

And we're talking with John Marcus today, the original wizard behind Barbecue Pit Masters.

Also with Chris Lilly, if I can.

With Chris Lilly.

Yeah.

Chris Lilly.

I bet you I know something that.

That you don't about Chris.

John, please.

I'd love to hear it.

It's related to underwear, isn't it?

Yeah, it's related to underwear.

Oh, no.

I want to be part of this, Jeff.

Really?

Let's talk about it in after hours.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you a great Chris thing, because, I mean, Chris is, to me, one of the senses of barbecue.

True Zen masters of barbecue.

And I once walked into.

We were in a competition somewhere.

I got.

I had the opportunity to cook on his team with Don McLemore and Don's friend Bill.

And these are great memories.

Great memories.

And Chris was standing alone in a tent with a brisket, and the brisket was just.

Just him in the brisket in his small tent.

The brisket was lying on a cutting board, and it was coming to room temperature, and he was just staring at it.

And I didn't say anything.

I just watched for a couple minutes, and then finally I said, what are you doing?

And Chris said this in all seriousness.

He said, I'm letting it talk to me.

Okay?

It's telling me how it would like to be cooked.

It's telling me the spots that'll finish first.

It's telling me what kind of heat I should be using on it.

And it's telling me how long it's going to need.

Are you sure you're shrinking?

I want one of those briskets.

Yeah, you want a talking brisket?

I want a talking brisket.

Oh, man.

I can't tell you what brand it was.

I think it might have been a creek stone, but I think there are a few talking briskets out there.

Next time he's on the show, Leanne, we're going to have to bring that.

Inquire about the talking.

Yeah, talking.

Well, he.

Yeah, I think he'll.

I think he'll remember that.

I think he would, but I've had many great cooking experiences with.

With.

He's very generous as to what he knows.

I have my Gedmaster because of Chris.

Actually, I have a couple of them.

Sometimes he'll call me and he'll say that I don't need one now, but there's one out there and I'll.

And I'll go get it.

You and I have one.

Gotta get the trailer too, though.

Gotta get the trailer, too.

The enclosed trailer, the one that closed trailer.

It's all coming as one, huh?

Yeah.

It's got a three compartment sink and a hand sink and a refrigerator.

I mean, you got.

It's.

It's like the, the extras that you need.

Absolutely.

And is it sitting in Florida, you know, Jeff?

Oh, yeah, it's in my parking lot.

It's in my parking lot.

It's in your parking lot.

Yep.

And you can also buy my Silverado.

If you'd like that.

Toes it.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Well, see, I, I think.

Let me interject something here.

See, John, I think he should get that trailer and then bring Leanne up and you two do a cook and film it either in Central park or Rock Center.

Central Park.

I'm sure they'd love that.

Times Square, whatever you could get it in.

And I think that would just be a hell of a deal.

Yeah.

Oh, I'd love to.

I cook with Leanne anywhere.

Yeah, I would cook with you anywhere as well.

Yeah.

All right, well, we'll figure this out.

So anyway, yeah, it's all good.

I think that John, by the way.

You know, we talk about these GED masters real quick.

Yeah, fantastic.

They're amazing cookers.

And they're.

It's, it's.

It's a wonderful story.

The inventor and the creator of Gedmaster and why he did it and how he did it.

Dennis.

Yeah.

Who was a.

Who was a paralegal or was in Kansas City.

I think Dennis is.

I know he's not Making them now.

But he's right.

He's out there.

He sold the rights to make them to James Britt.

Yeah.

The ring of fire.

He patented the ring of fire.

He knew if he could do that, he might be able to sleep while making barbecue.

Now everybody uses a version of the patented ring.

If a lot of people figure out ways to adapt that to whatever, they're right.

But.

But, you know, anything that can give you an old fashioned taste is really interesting and a great way to go.

And barbecue.

And with that, I mean, you know, on the Gedmaster, it's the rendering fat falling on this hot baffle.

Yep.

Which I think is black iron in most of them.

I have a jed that it's black iron and heavy is all hell to deal with.

And these things.

These things are just accidents waiting to happen.

But they know how they cook well.

But I have one on a trailer, a small trailer.

Not an enclosed trailer, but a small trailer that Dennis made the trailer as well.

And I had to drive to North Carolina to pick it up.

It was just, you know, there was a trucker, a very nice gentleman, who called me to let me know it was available.

And then I sent him a check for it right away.

And then he.

The check arrived back in the mail, and he called me and said, when I thought of selling it, I started to cry.

Oh.

And my girlfriend said, don't.

I don't want you crying all over the place all the time.

So keep it.

So he kept it.

And then a year later, he called me and said, I'm ready to let it go.

Did he let the girlfriend go too, or.

I think the girlfriend stayed.

Okay.

All right.

I think so.

She sounded very nice, actually.

But.

But why an orange trailer?

Because that was not Dennis's paint job.

That was the first owner, and it was an orange trailer because the guy that first bought it, he.

His day job was painting Popeyes chicken franchises.

Oh, no kidding?

Really?

Popeyes orange.

He used the Popeyes orange on the Jedi.

On the.

On the jet trailer trailer.

I ain't gonna touch it.

Yeah, Original.

After all your adventures to this point in your life, John, what barbecue, what do you think your greatest one is?

Is it pit masters?

Is it hall of fame?

Is it the people?

What is it?

I'd have to say I think the greatest adventure was flying to Kuwait to cook for the troops.

Yeah, that's got to be the greatest adventure of all.

Going to a military base that was eight miles from the border of Iraq during the drawdown in 2010.

In November 2010, and cooking for.

In two locations for a total of 5,200 soldiers and Marines.

I'll never forget that.

And very emotional thing to do.

And a hundred of them in each location stayed up with us all night to do the food.

There you go.

Awesome.

There you go.

I've been over in that area.

It's not what you'd call a garden spot.

No, not at all.

Not at all.

And it's like something sprung up in the middle of nowhere.

Right.

You know, it's amazing what we're able, what we're capable of doing, you know, this country and, and those folks have to be fed every day.

And this was the first time in a year that they had gotten a home cooked meal.

Yeah, those MREs get a little old.

Old.

Yeah.

That's a nice way to put it, Leanne.

They get a little old.

Yeah, they do.

I was going to put some other adjectives in there.

Even when you go to the mess hall and eat, you know, and it's amazing how they're able to feed all these people.

But the mess hall where they're preparing the food is.

It's.

I think they have to work from frozen.

They work from.

Yeah, just, just the whole.

Yeah.

Herculean task.

But we were cooking at Camp Buhring and the sun was coming up and it was 110 degrees at like 5:30 in the morning, and soldiers carrying their automatic weapons were walking on the horizon toward us because it was time to either help or to get to, you know, participate or even line up for the food.

And.

And that's what happened.

And that, that's a site I'll never forget.

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

John, you're gonna stick around for after hours, for a few minutes, whatever you want, I'm here.

Okay, great.

All right.

Are you in Midtown right now?

I'm in.

I'm on West 72nd Street.

Okay.

See, I told you I could find you.

Yeah, you can find me.

Well, that's narrowing it down, Jeff, but you need a little more than that.

Well, that cuts it down by at least 3,000 miles from where I live.

So anyway, we're gonna get out of here.

Thank you, John Marcus, for being with us.

Definitely on the invite list, anytime, any place.

That's for sure.

And Leanne and I have got to go, but John is going to stick around for after hours.

So remember our motto here.

Turn it, don't burn it, go out, have some barbecue, cook it and have some fun.

Take care, everybody.

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