Hi and welcome to another episode of Celebrating Small Family Businesses.

Today we are celebrating Sheley and Chris Brien of Brien Contracting,

and also Sheley has her own podcast.

And action, ooh, I went blank, sorry.

More Action.

More action.

That's it.

More action.

And that really was what I picked up from, you know, from listening to you

is that you're very pragmatic about it.

Like you want to get to the the meat and you want the, your guest, or you want to

talk about stuff that's really actionable.

And that was, uh, is that like a theme in your, in your business, in your life?

And Let's go there first.

It's a good pickup, John.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

You know, I think at the end of the day, um, sometimes the worst

thing we can do is inaction.

towards our goals, too many decisions to make, maybe failures that are

holding you back because you can't trust yourself going forward.

Fear of judgment of other people on you that keeps you frozen.

And that's like the worst thing that you can do is just take no action.

And so, you know, the show is all about just taking more action, whatever that is.

removing the labels of good action or bad action.

It's just moving forward.

Whether it works out how you intended or not is irrelevant.

You will always learn something that you can apply going forward.

Yeah, that's kind of one of our themes is If it didn't work, what

did work about what didn't work?

yes, I love that.

Because you've got to have that regrouping, so to speak.

There's always a silver lining.

There's always something that you needed to learn.

Yep.

true.

So true.

So tell us a little bit about how Brien Contracting got started.

And where did you guys come together?

Cause I think, you know, you originally maybe had separate careers.

Yeah,

Chris, what about it?

Talk about it.

it.

, well, let's see, Brien Contracting was started in the 2017.

Uh, that was following a number of years of myself being in the

construction industry, mostly on like the civil, infrastructure

highway and, um, back to 2011.

Uh, before that I was in commercial real estate in most different forms.

So it was just kind of recruited into construction, went from there,

learn what I needed to learn.

And then, um, you know, we, we had a small stint in having a concrete crushing

company and that's a whole 'nother story, but, uh, we started the vertical

construction in 2017, uh, right off the bat, jumping into doing restaurant work.

um, we've been riding through ever since rode through the

pandemic and we just continue to grow and continue to grow strong.

And so it's been a, it's been a great ride.

I love doing it.

Love being in construction, all commercial.

We we've done a few residential projects, but our wheelhouse is

definitely commercial as we prefer to be.

I can understand that.

I would feel the same way about real estate.

Much cleaner.

No emotion.

to the numbers Get to the bottom line

Yep.

So, did, it seems clear that your experience in commercial real estate would

have informed a lot about, you know, when you're doing commercial construction.

What your clients are expecting and kind of what their world is like.

How about the civil construction?

How did that inform what you're doing?

Um, it's, um, it's a completely different animal than the vertical

side of it, but I would say that there is a lot of it's a different level.

I guess.

How would I compare it to like vertical?

It's more detail oriented, , more heavily on the engineering side than vertical.

There's a lot of unforeseen stuff that you're dealing with when

you're getting into the ground and you're going underground where

you pretty much know what you're doing when you go and, you know,

building anything from the ground up.

So it's.

You know, I don't want to say every job is different.

I don't want to say it's all cookie cutter, but it's kind of like just a

repeat process where the civil side of it is kind of different every time.

I mean, you really don't know what you're getting into once

you get through the ground.

So, and there's, it's just different levels of scale too.

So, but I think that helped us tremendously, um, from that experience,

from going from working with municipalities and even federal work

and airport work to transferring in like mainly the communication skills,

the like time management skills, the reporting skills, the documentation

skills are a different level.

So that helps transfer over to the, uh, to the commercial side of it,

where it's kind of not done that way.

It's more wild westish I would call it maybe.

Um, so we're able to keep that formal process of it into our,

uh, our main construction side.

That's really cool.

Yeah, I was thinking that, especially when you mentioned, as soon as

you said, uh, municipalities, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, paperwork, the

project management and the, and the documentation and the communication.

Um, It has to be next level in the, in the civil side, so that

those systems would really fit.

I mean, it

It's day and night.

I mean, yeah, it's the paperwork itself.

You mentioned paperwork.

I mean, just the bidding process alone.

I mean, sometimes it's, it's literally a full time job, just a bit of project

and that side of it, just with the amount of paperwork you have to do.

aren't there consultants that that's their job?

Is there kind of that middleman between

yeah, I mean, there, there are, um, we've, we've ran into a few of them.

It's mostly where we run into the consultants is on like the homeowners

association sides, cause they'll come in and they'll represent a homeowners

association and as a consultant.

And so you'll work through them, but from the, you know, the bidding part

of it, from that side of it, the municipalities, it's better to keep

that stuff in house just because it's such a numbers game on winning it.

It, it, you know, you keep that stuff in house.

So,

I see, I see.

And so Sheley, what, um, you, you had a corporate career for

20 plus years, I think I read.

Mm hmm.

Tell me.

So I had nothing to do with construction at all.

Um, but you know, it's just like going back to, you know, taking more action is.

career was finance and then I went into pharmaceuticals.

Uh, then I went into media and I decided to try to run a restaurant and own a

restaurant at one point, because why not?

And then, you know, all of that experience just built up to be able to like

what Chris was just mentioning about.

Um, you know, that that civil work and the details, you know, when it comes to

having to do that type of work versus general contracting, you know, here

in Arizona, he mentions the wild wild west and and we're talking commercial,

which is more, um, organized, let's say

versus residential

is is truly.

It's like Mad Max

Yeah.

you know, versus like commercial out here.

But I think one of the reasons that we've been able to work with

such large organizations and get repeat work is because of that, like

formality of like my experience of incorporate in the organization.

And I understand how these large corporations are working and the

employees that we work with and what they are concerned with.

Being employees in that organization and Chris's heavy background in organizing

and being able to run these projects, high touch point communication, um, you know,

follow through on paperwork, all of that.

All of kind of the nitty gritty stuff where, you know, you even saw if,

if you're watching this, you even saw his face like, Oh my gosh, the

paperwork in civil was like crazy.

But it was such great experience because it's separating us now from the wild west.

Like we're setting a new standard on what is the expectation For commercial

general contracting here in Arizona.

Yeah.

So,

Nice.

That's actually one thing that Sheley helped me really understand

when she came in and, um, lent her experience to the construction company.

It was working with corporate companies because I never was in the corporate game.

I never worked for big corporations, so I don't really have the experience

with the different levels of things and the different kind of pain points

of your customers that you work with.

And so her experience of being through that side of it, that game

realizing like, what is, why is this one specific construction manager

Really focused on this particular item?

And to me, it's like, why are we doing this?

And, you know, when I talked to Sheley about that, she's like, well, you got

to remember there's different layers upon layers that he's answering to, and

there's always some underlying issue on why they're focusing on that one

thing from a corporate perspective.

So she helps really shed some light on that with her experience

in the corporate environment.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I mean, and that person might be, might be caught in a

vice of politics beyond the job stuff and the, the risk management.

Yep.

Yep.

A

A hundred percent self-preservation

in a lot of these large organizations, right?

And I understand that.

We, we both do.

lot of CYA.

This is so cool.

I

Another way to

put it, Connie.

I

think that's the theme.

Yeah.

percent.

So what, uh, I'm going to jump into the family side of it.

So you, you brought a lot of skills from your various experiences.

Now you're husband and wife working together in the business.

How did you manage that from get go?

And what have you, uh, what have you learned?

I don't even know.

I feel like I just blacked out on that.

We just

Well, you're still married, right?

So that's a good thing.

That's a good thing.

We're still married.

Yeah.

great thing.

Yeah.

Um, I don't know how you want to answer that.

I can answer it if you want me to.

Um, it was, uh, it was a roller coaster, honestly.

Um, we're

hmm.

very strong personalities.

Um, and we both kind of, when it first started, we came in bulls and China shop

and we just were like, do this, do this, let's go this, stay out of my lane.

You stay in your lane.

Like a lot of, there was a lot of.

Like trying to figure it out.

And in the beginning it was like a roller coaster.

Where it would be like, great.

And then we started understanding each other's strengths are

also the opposite's weakness.

So where I don't love to operate in gray, I love black and white.

I'm learning how to operate in gray Like he operates in gray on a daily basis.

So something like that, where I might get nervous, he's okay with like that

level of risk or what's going on.

So being able to lean on each other in those areas or understanding different

communications, or I love opera.

I love systems processes and operations.

And so, wow.

In the field, it's operating in a lot of gray.

We don't have that, but as we bring on additional team, you know, that don't

have the experience that Chris does to, to run some of these jobs, superintendents,

project managers, engineers, to be able to do this, we have to have the

systems to be able to like extract what's in his brain and put it out.

So he sees the value in that, but he doesn't want to do it.

I love to do that.

So like, you know, kind of learning different areas where we can both thrive.

And I, I think at the end of the day, and we've had to say this on multiple times

is like, always have the same end goal.

always do.

We just have very different ways of getting there sometimes.

And not one way is right.

And not one way is wrong.

They're just different and having tough conversations when sometimes we need,

like, just need you to listen, not try it.

And solve the problem, just listen so that we can, you know, figure

it out and it's still going on.

I mean, it's still going on, but you know, we just celebrated 19 years married.

Um, so, yep.

And, uh, it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun.

It's hard.

It's hard.

It's work.

Yes.

But it's wonderful.

I'd say two things on the family side that I'd like to highlight would be

one that we definitely make time, um, right now it's a little difficult

because of summer vacation with the kids, definitely make time to do like

date nights, or we have like a standing day date on a Friday, usually around

like, Usually at least for us in construction, a lot of times by the time

Friday rolls around, everyone's cutting out by two o'clock in the afternoon.

we usually do like a lunch date, uh, around noon or one and just the two of us,

and we either, sometimes we talk business, sometimes we don't, we just, sometimes we

just talk about the travel we want to do.

And so like at the end of the week, that really helps kind of

just like, you know, relax, you know, it's everything's so crazy.

We can just reconnect, um, with the stuff that we want to do.

And, uh, that I feel like strengthens.

us.

And then with the kids, it's keeping them involved in what we're doing.

So they're at an age right now, they understand that really

young, they're, they're 12 and 14.

Um, so they understand when they see us working in the office and we're doing

things and we definitely involve them.

I try and get my daughter involved in doing estimating and, you know,

doing measurements off plans.

My son's at the age now where I actually take him to work a

couple of times and I'll have

Cool.

know, do demolition or Drywall or paint.

And he likes being around all the guys working.

So keeping them involved in the process is like, then it becomes more of like this,

this family kind of business that we hope it to be down the road as we grow this.

So

Oh, that's very smart.

So, lots of things there.

Sheley, you mentioned the male dilemma.

That's that, am I trying to solve this?

Or is this one of those times you need me to just listen?

It took me a long time to learn that, didn't it?

I was automatically trying to fix it.

I'm still learning it.

Like I think, but we both are.

Yeah.

know,

You

just have to"Listen!"

yeah.

True.

Yeah, it's because it's like the emotions are running high and it's

like, how do we make that stop?

Surely it's got to be, you know, that we fix it, but no, it's not.

So that's,

Yeah.

I think, you know, that could be expanded, of course, into a lot of other things,

but that communication, figuring that out and being willing and able to

say, Hey, I just need you to listen.

You know, recognizing that.

And not letting it escalate a different direction.

Huge.

Huge.

Well, and it's, you know, when you think about, back in my corporate days, I

talk about crucial conversations, right?

You'd have to have a, a crucial conversation.

It's like nothing was a problem.

It was a challenge, like all these things, right?

But it's different when it's your spouse,

Mm hmm.

there's emotions, there's history, there's love, there's, there's

all of these things going on.

And sometimes like.

We speak too quick before processing exactly what is going on.

And the more that we can communicate and have those times, like Chris

was talking about the day dates, we also have a Tuesday business

meeting, just the two of us.

So it's like we've scheduled out these times and these are the times

and they're set in the calendar.

So when

someone tries to schedule with us on those days

or those times, it's like, no unavailable.

Like we are unavailable because we already have something on the books for us.

And, and I think, um, I think I either did a post on this or maybe even a podcast

episode, just how to make sure that if you are working with your spouse, like

your marriage is the most important part of the partnership over the business.

I think that is like keeping that in mind that it, nothing like our

family, our most important possessions don't like nothing is without us.

And so that's like number one above all else.

Even

wise.

Very wise.

Yeah, because, I mean, ultimately, uh, uh, family, whether it's

marriage or, or family relationship, The business can go away, right?

But you're still there, you're still there and you're still family.

And you, you know, you, you don't want to have to be repairing that.

no way.

No

need that.

You know, if something changes with the business for whatever, I

mean, sometimes, you know, we were, we were in the citrus business.

That's, that's a dying industry here in Florida.

So we, we had to shut it down.

And at 50 years old, I'm.

Like, the thing I thought I was going to retire from, the family business, I had to

start over and figure out, okay, now what?

So, it can happen.

Yeah, we're on plan F.

But, you know, we've got Literally, we are on plan F.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

More practice.

More practice.

Right?

It's all practice.

It is all practice.

Oh yeah.

So I love what you said about the kids too, that you're, you're involving them,

keeping them informed, you know, kind of letting them see behind the curtain.

They know what's going on.

They can understand, you know, when there's stress, what's causing it.

They're not just like, you know, some families want to hide the business or

hide their stresses from their kids.

You know, that's kind of, I think, an old school thing.

But.

That didn't, that didn't usually work well, right, because then the kids

don't know, they feel something's wrong, but they don't know what it is.

Right.

yeah.

And they don't really know, like they see us, maybe me gone more or working in

the office a lot, even on the weekends.

Um, and think that we're maybe neglecting them.

I don't, that's the last thing I want them to feel.

So it's like we obviously carve out time to spend specifically with

them, but like, I would like to bring them in here and show us what we're

Mm hmm.

you know, breaking this down here, Jax.

Here's what my son's name is Jax.

Here's what we're doing.

Here's what we're working on.

What do you think of this?

And ask him questions and try.

He, he sometimes glosses over and you can tell he's super bored and doesn't want

anything to do with it, but it's just.

Involving him in the process.

It's like going out and playing catch in the backyard.

It's just the time that we're spending together is what's important.

And he's also getting more than what you think he's getting.

Yeah.

especially because our kids are much, much older now and, and the feedback that

we're getting is, Oh, they heard much more than what we, what we, you know,

more than what we wish they had learned.

Like video recorders from two years old on.

Yeah,

They're like little elephants.

Right.

yeah.

And I'm hearing it coming out of the one son who has his own children, the

exact things that we were saying back.

In the day and it's kind of like and I'm looking and he's going and he's

just rolling his eyes going Yeah, that should not have come out of my mouth

So have you found that have you caught yourself doing that have

you like oh my god I just heard my parent come out of my mouth

I maybe once or twice.

I can't think of it, but I do, there's kind of a couple of things I think I

Wait till you get to the real teenage years.

It may happen.

It may happen.

I don't I can't predict the future but Don't be surprised if one day

something comes out of your mouth.

You think It sounds like an echo from your past.

Oh gosh, I'm sure.

I am sure.

So Sheley, how did you get into the health aspect of this?

Um, well, I have a really unique story just with health in general.

Um, it is, uh, just personally when I was in the financial industry, I built

a big, big book of business, and then I decided I don't want to do this anymore.

And I moved over to pharmaceuticals.

Well, at that time I was just working so hard, um, long

hours, You know, stacked ranks.

So I always wanted to be first, like doing all of these extra things that I

just let my, I neglected my health and unfortunately my body had gotten so weak

that I wa uh, went blind in my left eye

Wow.

essentially a virus, um, that I, we all have, right?

That of, or I would say 40 and above, um, because now they have

a vaccine for it as chickenpox.

Well, as an adult it can come back as shingles.

It's the same virus.

It just comes back out and it came out of my optic nerve.

And

Wow.

Mm-Hmm.

just weak and couldn't.

We all, if we, if you had chicken pox, you have the virus, you have the virus

for the rest of your life, your body does a good job of keeping it dormant.

It arises out of stress or when you're not taking care of yourself.

And so it came out of my optic nerve and, um, left me blind.

And so when that happened, it just kind of started a cascade of, of things of like,

okay, I got to think a little bit bigger.

I got to take care, better care of myself.

And, you know, then I went into the pharmaceutical industry and I learned a

whole bunch, um, just about the medical industry and whole being a patient myself

with kind of a unique background and.

Various other things, you know, um, something obviously we teach our kids

and we do for us in the business too, is just being an advocate for yourself.

And so, you know, that comes to your health too, not just even being

an advocate for your business and, and showing how great you are for

your business and advocate for your team, but it's even for yourself.

And so.

Um, you know, it, I think a lot of it can be handled just with some education

and understanding proper nutrition as well as the importance of exercise and

just expanding our minds, you know, um, like reading and podcasting, listening,

listening to, I'm a podcast host, but also listening to very specific podcasts.

I, I always protect what I listened to.

Just as much as I protect what I ingest in my food is, I think it's

one of the secret weapons that we can use as business owners.

Is the better we take care of ourselves, the better we can

perform every day in our business.

Um, the

Mm-Hmm.

we can be, the better, you know, team that we can be when we take care of ourselves,

like we, and you know, we used to lift heavy and we've done fitness competition.

We used to do all this, but now we're like older and we've done it for a

long time and we're like, Oh my gosh.

This hurts now.

And I don't want to go that hard anymore.

And like, Oh man, we're doing yoga.

Like what, like, but it's evolving with what we need.

Right.

Like.

while in the past, like lifting heavy was kind of a release too,

because just stress and everything.

Now it's

Mm-Hmm.

exhausting.

So we need a different something like, what is that going to be?

Um, you know, my daughter and I ride horses, like that's a way for me to kind

of go take care of myself too, you know, um, planning vacations, like all of

these things are around health and it's not just like physically how you feel.

It's.

you know, or the physical appearance of how you look, that's actually

probably last on the totem pole.

It's everything else, you know, that's inside.

um, health is just something that, you know, I've just like we bring

our kids along and learning, um, the business and plans and all of that.

I teach them what carbs and fats and proteins are and, You know, my son is a

gymnast, like how important it is with him building muscle to eat proper stuff, you

know, how they, you know, what is, what is a good snack that's nutritious versus not.

And of course they eat ice cream and chicken nuggets and mac and cheese.

Of course they do.

It's not about restriction.

It's just about understanding.

Yeah.

Mm-Hmm.

just it.

Like they know when they're tired, it's like, okay, we're going to bed.

Like your body just needs to recharge, you know?

Listen to your body.

Yeah.

Huge.

I, I did a bunch of research into different diseases at one

point you know, what causes this?

And there were two themes that I found.

One theme was that all the major diseases that I found, somewhere in the discussion

said, scientists or doctors really don't know what causes this, blah, blah, blah.

And, we think, and there's this associated, blah, blah, but, but it

was, there was always that theme.

And then the other theme was Lifestyle factors.

There's four lifestyle factors, right?

Rest, movement, nutrition, and I said rest, you know, sleep,

and then also managing stress.

Those four things, they universally said those four things have more

impact on your prevention and your health than any medicine, anything, any

medical treatment that anybody can do.

And they're all in your control as a patient.

Yep.

Exactly.

Who knew?

It's

The basics.

right?

Like, it's just, it's just knowledge, you know, if you're going to look at a

PNL and if you're going to look at like.

You're marketing, you know, launch or whatever, and, and how that performed,

it's just data to tell you what's going on so that you can make changes.

Our body just needs that same, same information too, that, you know, once we

understand it, we can make adjustments, you know, like some days, like, Even

on vacation, we'll be working, right?

Small business is what we do, um, is that we'll be working.

But then some days I'm like, you know what?

I just need to, I need to be done.

Uh huh.

to be done for the day and that's fine.

Then we come back and even stronger than that.

So I think that there's so much behind it, but, um, what you said, those, those

four points are incredibly important.

Incredibly.

I mean, when you see construction.

Guys out on the site.

I don't know anyone else that looks like him.

Uh huh.

one, you know, and it's like they worked and ate nutrition or like fast food,

like a hundred percent of the time.

And, and I get it sometimes when we are busy and it's hard to have choices.

Um, but it's a choice not to take action and plan ahead and like

plan your lunch and, you know, have nutritious options available at your

fingertips rather than the bag of chips.

Like these are all just choices, but it comes from education.

And I love that you did the research on that.

I'm sure, Dr.

Google was scary enough when you started down that path.

Um, but I think it's, it's just the more knowledge you can get, then you can

make educated decisions for yourself.

In our work with, um, with small family businesses, one of the things

we do is ask about self care, you know, what do you do for self care and

talk about that because , I consider it an essential business function.

It is a management function.

If, if you, especially as a business owner, it If you drop out, I mean,

can the business run without you?

Like, like Chris, if you took a month off, would it just keep

right going without you there?

Yeah.

So, so that's, you know, I, I've tried to put that in front of the,

the client and say, okay, what, what happens if you fall out?

Right.

So if it's not like, oh, well, we're fine, then let's talk about

self care and what are you doing?

And make that a priority because that's every bit as important as cashflow.

Well, and the thing is, is that so many people, um, and I get it,

uh, business owners, leaders and organizations are so driven and focused

on their end goal that it's like, Oh, I'll take care of myself when.

I'll do that when.

I got to do this and then I'll do that.

Like it's always like something else is the priority over it.

And as soon as, you know, um, you make that shift and actually go, no, I'm the

priority and then everything else will be better because I am the priority.

It changes the game.

Like it truly changes the game.

And there's periods of time where we've been able to be even more

focused on our health and wellness.

And then times that, you know what, the balance was off and that's okay.

And we had to focus more on the business and there were more things going on.

It didn't mean that it stopped a hundred percent, but it was definitely.

I think the word balance is a joke anyway, but it was definitely way off kilter.

And so, you know, the thing is, is that it's never been gone with us being

priorities or taking care of our health.

Like I'm, I'm a huge advocate.

You know, we've got two athlete kids.

We're, I would consider it athletes, like things that we do.

It like, it's very important.

Like I have all the dinners planned for the week.

We have very nutritious food all the time.

Cause I'm like.

At very least we will be fed well in the sense of like it will give us the proper

fuel and energy to be able to do the things that we all do as a family, which

is, is a lot like we pull long, long days.

And so I think that, um, it's important that you bring that up because it isn't

talked about a lot, you know, amongst, um, small business owners or entrepreneurs.

Yeah, because there's always something that's, you know, pulling you away

if you don't make time for it.

If you don't put it on that calendar.

If you don't,

You'll just go right by your time to go to the gym and keep working.

and if you have to go at five o'clock in the morning, you're there with

all the doctors who are just getting

Yeah.

go in.

So it's, it's fine.

yeah.

there's a theme you, you're probably both familiar with.

It was called the tyranny of the urgent, right?

The there's, there's urgent and there's important and the urgent stuff is

that stuff that always feels like, Oh, I have to take care of this first.

And there's a never ending supply of that stuff.

It just never, it's never over.

The, the inbox is always full and, and it, of course depends on what you assign

as urgent, but, um, yeah, you've gotta, you, you've, you've gotta shift that

and figure out, okay, what's important, and we're gonna do that first or make

that, and, and BI love what you said about balance, Sheley, that, um, you

know, because it's, it's, it's like this, it is like the rollercoaster

you talked about in the beginning.

It really never stops.

Right.

You, you've got times, you said there's times Chris, when you guys are spending

less time with the kids, you don't want 'em to feel like you're neglecting them.

But you bring them in and you show them, Oh, we got all this

going on, and it's temporary.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

It's definitely phases for sure.

There's times when you're really busy and you got to focus and there's

times when it's less busy and you can, you know, do it, you know,

take advantage of other things.

So absolutely.

Well, an emergency on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

That's our favorite saying.

There was a, service department at some business that we, and they said,

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Which was a

huh.

take on it.

That's true.

So very true.

Very

And especially in a small family business, because you're constantly being bombarded

with the phone, the emails, the, you know, somebody walking in, whatever it

is, and trying to just carve out that even two minutes to take a breath.

As we well know, sometimes it's difficult.

Oh yeah.

And especially

I think a of it

industry.

Sure.

I have more, I have more control over my schedule than Chris does.

You know, he has more forward facing with the clients in the field and the

clients either being our subcontractors that we're working with, um, Our team

and or our client or the property manager, like so many people.

Um, but for me to what I have found, and I know that you do do this to a point.

I just have more ability to do it is like today is Tuesday.

Tuesday is my meeting day.

I literally stack up all my meetings because I can't, if I have

too many meetings throughout my week, I can't get any work done.

And so I will just block out certain days.

And I'm like, these are the days that I have meetings every other day.

It's mine.

And if I do take a meeting, it's not till the afternoon.

And that was a big mindset for me.

Cause I'm a morning person.

So I'm going to get everything done in the morning.

I want to check all those boxes and move right on.

Right.

But I wasn't getting any work done.

And so I had to really take control over my schedule and be like, okay, meetings.

Like I had three meetings, three hour long meetings today already.

And I'm like, okay, let me like push those all on one day.

And if we can't get it on that day, that's fine.

We're going to go out next week or the week after.

I'm not going to flex my schedule.

I think the more that we protect our time, it allows us to not only get the important

work done, not take care of the fires, but get the important work done and also stick

to the other things that are important to us, you know, running this business is, is

obviously very important, but our family and us and like having the date, having

the dates, having the date night, having the time to go to the gym, having the time

to spend with the kids, like, Those are important, but we have to take control

of our schedule to be able to do that.

And there's times where my schedule is out of control and summer vacation.

And then times when, you know, it comes back in line and I can, I can,

um, just be more protective of it.

proactive versus reactive and trying to be as proactive as possible when you can.

But there's times, like you were saying, when, you know, when something

happens, you have to react, you have to, you have to respond at least.

But Cool.

Was there any particular tool, going back to how you figured out your

strengths, uh, was there any assessment or tool or process you went through

to, to help identify your individual strengths or did you just kind of

figure it out from buttin' heads?

There wasn't a specific tool.

No.

There was no tool.

There was no tool.

I think it was a lot of conversations.

A lot of, um, A lot of fighting.

And like, and like ego, like setting the ego aside.

Yeah.

Like.

You know, I love systems and processes, like I said, and I hear stuff

that's going on in the field, but I'm not in the field experience it.

And so I hear this and I'm like, let me come in and fix

it with a process and a system.

And that's not my lane because I'm not living that.

And I don't understand, I don't understand the gray of what's going on in there.

And so, wow, I think that's the solution.

I really don't have the experience to prove it's the solution.

And so I had to kind of like step back and be like, well, wait a minute.

Like he knows this best now that I'm coming out there

and we're building a team.

Well, now it's a little bit like we have the ability to create kind of the

Brien Contracting process in how we work with clients, start a project and

a project punch list, like all these different things that now we can give

tools to our team to be like, Hey, make sure you hit every check mark on this.

Otherwise we're going to miss something on a punch walk or something.

So it's, it's through trial and error there.

I don't know.

I don't know that there's, I mean, you could do like a strength finder.

You could do like the disc.

You can, we know we're drivers.

Uh, we, we know that like we could, but like, I think it's

understanding that and letting the other person shine when they're good.

And owning it when you screw up.

Yep.

Yeah, that's, I think it's been hard.

I will say that I've had business partners before and from like a standpoint of roles

within what you do and what areas that your expertise is and your strengths are.

I said, I think it's, it was harder to figure that out with a spouse than it was

with just someone who you partner with.

Um, because I feel like when you, when you partner with someone in the business, you

both feel like you're bringing different strengths already to the business.

So when you form it, you're like, well, I'll do this and I can do

this and we can put this together and partner up and go on it.

And it's kind of where you guys start as opposed to when you're doing it from.

We're, we're kind of operating and then you bring in your spouse and

like Sheley came into construction and then I feel like it's a lot harder to

work your way through, uh, who's good at what, who's going to handle what.

And then you combine that also with.

If you have an intertwined personal relationship outside of the business,

it's one of the more challenging things I think I would say it would

be when you're doing a partnership for sure is it's, it's tough, it's tough.

You've got history

of communication.

that you've got to balance.

So,

Lots of history.

What's a tip that you would offer to other small family businesses when

they're trying to sort that out?

I would say over communicate crystal clear on, uh, not only whatever

topic or discussion or how you, like how something, I guess I want

to say feels, but like almost like openness from one person's end.

So like the communication, just using us as an example, the breakdown we've had

is like what Sheley said, from what's going out on site on a daily basis.

Where she's operating in the blind, she doesn't know what's happening out there

and what's going on and it happened so quick for us that I come home or she finds

something out and she wants to talk about topic A, but I'm, I'm already on topic Q,

because we've solved that, something else

come up.

We moved on.

We change order.

We change the schedule.

Now this is happening.

And now we're here and all that blew by her.

And so for me, it's like, are we to figure it out?

We're moved on, but she really wants to understand what happened and what we're

talking about and where we're going.

And is it, is it bad?

Is it good?

Is the risk is what's not.

And it's still like going back and rehashing that.

So it's like, it's communication.

It's just, it's so, it's so much just, and not like, I can, I can tend to be

feel like, well, I've already done this, I've already talked about it and you

don't know what's going on, so I'm not going to really address it with you.

But like, that doesn't really take into account, like what, what she

needs to know and what she has to make her decisions based on what she does.

So, uh, it's just over communication and not trying, trying very, very hard

not to think that take things personal.

I think what you, what you said at the end is the most important is that

like, it's just not take it personal.

You know, like if I say, we could have done this better, or

we could have done that better.

It's not Chris Brien could have done it better.

I'm like, what did we learn?

How can we be better?

And ultimately we are building this to fire ourselves.

Like we want a legacy company, but we want to fire ourselves.

We still will be at here, but we want to bring up such an

incredible team and culture

that they don't need us, you know what I mean?

Like they don't need us.

And, and that's what we, it's like raising our kids.

It might be a bad analogy, we want them to be equipped to make great decisions

and they're going to screw up, but like, that's okay, learn from it, move on.

And so it's like, as we do that with the team, it's just like, not take

anything personal and know, what was it for me is to remember we, we always

have the same goal, like our same goal.

It is the same.

And some days I think my, my way is a better way.

And if that's true, I'm going to stick to my guns in it.

But some days he might say something.

I'm like, damn, I never thought about that.

Like, that's actually a really good point.

We should do that.

Like being open to hear both sides, like the, the, the good and the bad.

And like, remembering like, no matter what it is, it's not personal.

We're just trying to get towards our end goal.

like, how do we do that?

How do we learn from each other and make it so it's just easier.

And it's, it's community.

It's everything, everything in businesses, communication.

Thank you.

It's a touchdown.

Yes, it

yeah, yeah,

We like to say that information flow precedes cash flow.

It's a leading indicator.

It's the root that's the flow of the blood in the business is the

information, the communication.

And everybody wants it the opposite way.

They want the cash flow first, and then we'll talk to you.

Well, they want to measure by the cash and it's really a secondary thing.

The money is an after effect.

absolutely.

Yep.

hundred percent.

A

I love the over communication.

Um, I hadn't, we, we don't necessarily refer to it like that, but it, but

it does appear like that when you're really doing it when you're thorough.

You know, like, it's like, Chris, did I understand?

Now, I heard you say this and.

I want to make sure I got it right.

So did you mean it this way or did you mean it that way, right?

That asking clarifying questions when you can explain somebody

else's position to them in a way that, yeah, wow, you really got it.

I hadn't thought of it that way.

Now you're communicating, right?

And, and then, and then when it, when both people feel understood,

then the person, it's almost impossible to take it personally.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

A hundred percent.

And

And setting boundaries.

That's something new that we've tried to be working on is like setting

communication boundaries for things like, this is like a boundary for me.

Don't cross it.

Like, otherwise it's going to like, we, you know, not like from a negative

standpoint, but just like when we're having conversations or we, we, things

are getting heated or whatever, like that, it's just kind of like, okay,

that's just let you know, that's kind of getting into personal territory.

We, I know you didn't mean it that way, but let's, kind of rephrase

it or Let's talk about something else or something like that.

So that is where I'm looking.

Yeah, no, and that's just something new, right.

Is, you know, we're getting new experience, new

perspective every single day.

And so we're evolving as who we are, that it's like having those.

Um, communication boundaries as far as like, okay, like when it's hitting

a personal note and maybe I'm working through something personal or he's

working through something, something personal and what I said triggered

that and it's like, I need to respect that he's working through that and

it's like, okay, let's rephrase.

Or let's take a break or let's come back or whatever.

And, um, I think that's just, I think that's a marriage too.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And, and, and how you describe that, I mean,

Oh

is like, I'm feeling this way rather than you made me feel, right?

And, and, and it's totally different energy.

And if it's, I'm feeling, and I need, I need to take a break

from this subject for now, right?

Yeah.

Wow, okay, you know, I mean that that is that brings out the caring of the other

person and that's you know Where your relationship then can really come in?

In corporate they're gonna like so what what?

right So what about what you're feeling we got jobs to do get over

it and there's 12 people standing behind you ready for your position

Oh Yeah, and we've worked a lot on on communication in as far as what what words

mean Because what, what a word, I think, would mean one thing, Um, he would come

along going, Where did you get that from?

No, that's not, you know, no, it means this.

So then we go to the dictionary and go, okay.

This is, let's go the synonyms and let's go through it.

And then we finally go, all right, we can agree on that one.

Yeah.

And that doesn't happen every day, but, it's a great illustration

of how much we behave to the meanings of the words that we have.

And, and, and just like we're speaking the same language, basically

languages, we've agreed that this, this collection of sounds is a word

and the word means this, right?

But, but sometimes.

Yeah.

people have very different meanings for and it may be like you were

saying something from something in the past You know, I say dog, right?

And if you're thinking A German Shepherd that was snarling at you and I'm thinking

a little Chihuahua, you know lifting its leg on the whatever very different mental

pictures very different emotional reaction to that memory and And so the conversation

can go sideways and you don't even, unless you ask, you don't know that you're

using different definitions for the word.

And West Coast is different from East Coast.

Because we've lived in the West Coast, and we've lived the majority of our

time here in the East Coast, but still the words don't sometimes translate.

No.

They're different.

And so, it's, it's always fascinating.

We love language.

Yeah.

And I think we're getting time.

We are, yeah, getting close to time.

Yeah, you need to go.

You've got to go.

This has been amazing.

Thank you so much for spending this time with us.

I want to make sure we put in the show notes how to reach you guys.

So thank you again for spending this time with us and we will look

forward to a future conversation.

Absolutely.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for having us.

Bye.