Welcome to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast, where every week

Kirsten and Jeanie dive into the essential topics to fuel your business

growth, from copywriting to course creation mindset, to video marketing.

They've got you covered.

Tune in for expert guest interviews on all things marketing and

business, and learn how to work on your business, not just in it.

So get ready to unlock your business potential and take it to the next level.

Referrals are great, but when you're ready to scale fast, you really need a

message that sells to strangers and a strategy that brings them in consistently.

So we're excited to introduce you to Todd and Leah Goetz of the

company, digital Trailblazers.

Thanks for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having us here today.

We're excited to be here.

So I have a couple questions.

First of all, I wanna know how you started your business, and then my second question

is, how is it working with your spouse?

He might have a different answer than me.

I don't know on that second one.

Awesome.

But we started, uh, 9, 9, 10 years ago-ish.

Um, and for us it was really sort of a necessity.

So I was previously a nurse, Todd started as a band teacher, but through our careers

we kind of end up shifting a few times.

And we were in, uh, traveling consulting roles.

We had prayed for children for 10 years.

We finally adopted our first son.

I started staying home full time.

Todd was still traveling though, and he would fly out Sunday afternoons, fly

back Thursday nights, Friday mornings.

And I was a single mom for a lot of the time.

And that was definitely not what we were praying for.

Um, and we had to figure something out.

And kind of a roundabout way, we started fig trying to find ways to make

money online and to bring him home.

We, uh, I think a lot of folks got the gateway drug of network marketing

right, uh, to, to dabble our toes in, to help us think differently.

And through that we found affiliate marketing where things really

started to take off for us years ago.

And from there we learned really good internet marketing skills.

How to generate leads, how to close sales, how to funnel copywriting,

sales calls, all of the core elements that people started asking

us, how do you do those things?

And so we started offering our own courses and that's where everything

kind of really exploded for us.

And we've been helping folks learn how to lean into their

expertise, how to get their.

Their expertise, their experience, their goodness out into the world

coaching in courses, um, since then.

Awesome.

Have you adopted more children?

Yes.

So our second son has never known what it's like to have parents outta the home.

We were able to bring Todd home after, I think it was 18 months

or so, uh, into our business.

And we have a home study completed for number three.

Um, we're awaiting a match, which takes forever, unfortunately.

Um, there's this fallacy, there's so many kids out there, eh, not so much.

Uh, so we're, yeah, we're, we're praying for a, a daughter, uh, sometime soon.

We'll also pray for that for you.

I love that.

My sister has fostered 22 children and adopted five.

All special need children.

And so yeah, the being able to stay home with them has been her blessing.

She's active on TikTok and has a pretty big TikTok channel, and it's amazing that

we have this ability to work online and be at home with our kids if that's the goal.

So, yeah.

Well, this is awesome.

And your topic today, I love this.

We're gonna talk about.

Kind of a difference between warm traffic and cold traffic, because I

think people sometimes don't understand that they're very different and how

you approach them is very different.

I could talk the whole time, but I dunno if Todd wants to jump in on this.

Yeah.

There's a huge difference, uh, between warm traffic and cold traffic.

Uh, you think about whenever you are looking for, let's say.

Let's say your car is broken and you need a new alternator or something.

And so you start asking around, uh, you know, who can help me to fix this?

Or who knows?

Uh, somebody that can, that can figure this out.

And you'll probably have some people that are like, oh yeah, I know Todd.

Todd's pretty good to his cars.

You know, he's a car guy, he can probably come over and help you out.

Right?

And with warm referral traffic, you can be a generalist and have

people say, Hey, Todd's a car guy.

He can help you out.

No matter what the problem is, the thing is when you're trying to reach a cold

audience, it doesn't really work the same way because when you think about somebody

who is sitting down at their computer and they're about to start typing something

into the search bar of Google or YouTube, and they've got a very specific problem

that they want a specific solution for, they want to know how to generate leads.

They want to know how to lose weight without having to live near a gym, right?

They've got these very specific problems that they're looking

for, a specific solution.

And so that's what they're typing into the search bar on Google and, and YouTube.

They're not typing in, uh, who's a good car guy or who

can help me lose weight, right?

It's these very specific search terms.

And the thing is, the more specific search term, uh, the closer they are

to a buying decision, those are the leads that you really want to go after.

And so if you've been getting all of your.

Customers and clients through referrals and just warm traffic.

If you want to start building and scaling your business to cold traffic, you need to

change your message to match what they're searching for in Google and YouTube.

And it sounds very simple, but being competitive with

it is much more difficult.

I love the fact that we can figure out what people are

typing into that search bar.

I think that's something we didn't know that.

You know, years ago, and when you tell people now, like you can actually find out

not just what they're typing in there, but how many people are typing it in there.

Yep.

Is that something you help your clients with to figure out, you

know, what search terms are the best for their particular offer?

Yeah.

Well, and it's not necessarily just being found in search, but it's also

if you're doing a webinar or something like that, like you need to be, be able

to communicate your message in a way that sets you apart from everybody else.

If you are saying the same things as everybody else and you're.

Saying the, the things that people have already heard before, then it's

like going to a, a restaurant and all the menu items look very similar

and people can't tell the difference between one and and the other.

And what that causes in is indecision.

And so if you get people on sales calls and they're saying to themselves, they're

giving you the objection of, oh, I need to think about it, or, this sounds great, but

I'm not sure, or it sounds very similar to this other person, so I wanna check them

out, I wanna do some comparison shopping.

They're, it's very hard to nail 'em down to a decision of yes or no.

Right?

That's a pretty good clue that you really haven't done a good job of messaging

and setting yourself apart and clearly distinguishing yourself as different

and better than the competition.

I. So in order to start hitting that cold audience with a message that's

really gonna resonate, what we found, like there's a lot of different things.

Like you could listen to Russell Brunson and he's got his perfect webinar and you

know, there's other people have these copywriting formulas, but what we found is

that the thing that will really help you.

To basically, uh, burn all the other bridges to the goal, right?

To have people see you as the only solution to the problem,

what's called depositioning.

And this is something that we learned from a guy that used to work on and one of the

advertising agencies on Madison Avenue.

If you, if you've seen the show madman, he actually worked at the advertising

agency that that show is based off of.

And he's the one that we really.

Learned this concept of depositioning from, and basically what it is, is that

it's not enough to just tell everybody and all the features that it has and how

personalized it is and how systematized it is and uh, and all the things that

you get, it's not enough to do that.

'cause everybody does that.

What you have to do is deposition the competition.

In other words, you have to clearly articulate.

Why their solutions are not going to be sufficient in getting them to their goal.

You have to describe what they're lacking or something that they, uh, that they

don't have, that you do have that really eliminates them from consideration.

And when you can effectively do that, that's how you create a

message that will get people closer to our goal of joining your offer.

I love the fact that you're kind of taking the offer of your competitors.

Explaining why it won't fix the problem.

Yeah.

That's, I think we're doing with our newest offer, Jeanie, but I don't think

we've ever done it with our past offers.

Yeah, definitely.

And was Madden, was that David Ogilvy?

No, it was actually a guy named Marty Marion.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is interesting.

I think sometimes people get so excited about their offer because,

you know, they're excited about their business and they're excited

that they've created something.

But the reality is, you know, it's, I say it's easy to create offers.

It's harder to sell them.

Yep.

I think this is the problem people have is it's that messaging and there's

so much messaging out there is how do you really have that clear voice?

And that's something that you help people do.

How do you help them do that without making it sound negative?

Yeah, so it's not necessarily that we're saying nothing else will ever work.

It's more along the lines of, hey, these things can be helpful, but they lack

something that you obviously are missing.

Which is the reason why you haven't gotten all the way to your goal yet.

A really good example of this, you know, especially for people who are probably

more our age is, is P 90 X, if you remember that, that exercise program

that was marketed really well in the, uh, in the early two thousands, they

had this concept of muscle confusion.

That was their unique mechanism, right?

That was, that was a thing that they did that was unique from other people.

And the way that they explained it was that.

Every other workout program would work to a certain point, and then

you'd have this plateau effect, right?

You'd do the same workout every day for 30 days and you'd get some good

results, but eventually it would start to plateau and uh, it didn't matter

how much more you worked out, what happened is that your body would get

used to the work and it would adapt.

And then you'd, you'd stop seeing that progress.

And so they call that the plateau effect.

That's the effect that happens with every other program.

But what P 90 X does is it overcomes that plateau effect with muscle confusion.

So after 30 days, you start to see that plateau effect.

And what P 90 X does, that's different and better than the competition is that

they give you a whole new set of exercises that works your muscles in different ways.

And so it confuses the muscles and it spikes another 30 days of growth.

And so once you see that plateau effect that happen after another 30 days,

they give you another set of exercises, spikes another 30 days of growth.

And after 90 days, P 90, right after another, uh, after 90 days, you have

three times the results that you would then, uh, versus a normal workout.

And so that was their way of depositioning competition and showing

you why their method was different, better, and so very similar to that.

That's what we, one of the very first things that we do with our clients

is to help them to figure that out.

Exactly how do we deposition a competition and show that.

Others why you are different and better than than everybody else, and it doesn't

necessarily have to be something that you invented that nobody else does.

A lot of times it's just something that maybe everybody

does, but nobody is saying.

Another good example of this was with the beer company.

I think it was Schitz or Schitz.

I never drank beer, but I think it was slight beer

slits.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But anyways, they, uh, there's a story that, uh, they had hired a marketing

consultant to come in and help 'em with one of their ad campaigns.

So they were giving you a tour of the, of the beer factory, and there

was a part of the beer making process that he didn't really understand.

He saw that they were taking to bottles and like shooting air

in them or something, or steam.

And he asked them, well, what's going on over here?

And the guy that was giving him the tour was like, oh, well

that's just sterilizing process.

We sterilize a bottle so that the beer stays fresh for longer.

And the marketing agent was like, oh, well that's it.

That's our angle.

We're gonna say we have the freshest beer because we sterilize our bottles.

And the guy that was giving him the tour was like, well, yeah,

but that, that's nothing special.

Everybody does that.

And he is saying, well, it doesn't matter.

Nobody else is saying it.

We're gonna be the first one to say it, and that's gonna be our angle.

And they did it and it worked.

But a lot of times it's just a matter of doing things in a certain way

or saying things in a certain way that other people aren't saying it.

So interesting.

Yes.

It's so funny because we have a program launching next week, and

it's for virtual bookkeepers.

Mm-hmm.

And you know what I have found as a business coach over the years is

a lot of smaller businesses, they can't afford 65 to $95 an hour.

So they say they're gonna do their books on their own and they don't.

And then come January, they're stressed all the way through tax season

about getting everything together.

And when we were thinking about our positioning for this, you know, my goal is

I want entrepreneurs to fall in love with their money and to become empowered CFOs.

And one of the things that.

Can help them do that is having, not just having a, a very affordable virtual

bookkeeper and being able to pick the best software for yourself, but also,

um, through some market research.

I found out that so many people felt really dumb asking their

bookkeeper or their CPA questions.

One lady that I interviewed was doing 5 million a year in revenue, and she

said every time she talked to her CPA, she felt like she was being scolded.

Right.

So that was, it was very eye-opening.

And so we're trying to put along with the messaging that, you know, your

virtual bookkeepers on your team and they're gonna really empower you to learn

how to understand your profit and loss statement and your balance sheet, and

really be there to support you in making the best decisions to improve your, you

know, your revenue and your bottom line.

So it's been interesting.

Just learning what other people were struggling with when we first started

this process, but I think we have a lot more work to do around our messaging.

Jeannie

always, there's always more work to do around messaging.

So how do you help your clients when they first come to you and say, Hey, you

know, I need to attract a cold audience.

You know, where do I start?

So a lot of folks wanna start at the end, which is like, I

wanna jump into paid out, right?

Or I want see this the end solution.

And the reality is there's so much that we have to do before we get there

because if that messaging is in dialed in, if we haven't done what Todd

just walked you through right then.

No one's gonna resonate with the ad. It's not gonna work.

You're not gonna convert.

All those sorts of things.

And on top of that, they also need a really good sales system.

I can't tell you how many people think, well, I'm just gonna put together a

really good ad. And then they spend all this time and money and it's like going

to a checkout page and you're like.

Okay, and it's like a thousand dollars or something.

You're like, this clearly is never going to work.

Pause.

Let's set up some systems.

People need a bunch of touch points.

You need to walk them through a process to go from not knowing who

you are to actually being nurtured, qualified, and then moved into a sale.

So there's a lot of those different elements and people are like, I just.

Any more sales.

So can you help me get traffic?

I'm like, we can help you get traffic.

But the precursor to that, making that traffic work in a way that's actually

gonna lead to sales is, is the messaging.

It's a sales system that actually is gonna move people through to a sale,

and then we can get into paid traffic.

And so we do love paid traffic, but we love really the combination.

So you're not just relying on paid traffic, but you create this

ecosystem with a combination of.

Paid and organic.

So you're doing a lot organically and you're using paid to get more reach,

to get more exposure to amplify your message, um, and to really target

the folks that you wanna work with.

Yeah, and this is one of those things that has been heavily researched in

marketing and sales over decades.

This whole concept of multiple touchpoints.

And the thing is like when you look.

Through your Facebook timeline and you get these ads that come up of the

marketing guru that's, Hey, you know, I've got this secret strategy that if

you just implement it, you're gonna make a million dollars and blah, blah, blah.

And if it doesn't work, you don't pay.

And it's just like this one secret strategy.

And people buy into these things expecting that I'm gonna do this one thing and this

one thing is gonna build my business.

And through decades of marketing research, we know that that's not true.

If you implement one strategy, maybe that's a webinar.

Maybe that's YouTube ads, maybe that's whatever it is, right?

That one thing is basically encompassing one touch point in your system where

we know from research we need somewhere in between seven and 12 touchpoints.

In fact, Google I think, did a very comprehensive study.

I think that's the latest one that came out.

If you Google it, this 7 11 4 rule, they found that take somebody from a old

audience to a paying client or customer.

On average, you need to engage 'em with about seven hours of content,

uh, across 11 different touch points and four different platforms.

Right, the seven 11 forum.

And so if you buy into one of these five or $10,000 coaching programs that

teach you how to do this one, you know, really cool thing that's gonna make you

million, well, that's one touch point.

You just blew $10,000 of your marketing budget on one touch point.

Congratulations.

You need 10 more.

So when we think about.

This ecosystem and then seven hours of engagement.

When we think of the, about this ecosystem that we need to put together

and really a customer journey, right?

Taking 'em from point A to point B and all the different touch points

that need to happen with that.

Yeah, we need that top of funnel stuff, the organic content, the

Facebook ad, you know, that's, it's all the, like the top of funnel stuff

that's reaching the cold audience and getting them into your ecosystem.

It's getting 'em onto your email list, getting them to

follow you on social media.

Right.

It's that first touch point, and now we need more content and more

platforms to engage 'em with.

That might be a Facebook group, uh, that might be a text message that

they get from you that might be booking a call and showing up to Zoom.

Uh, there's a bunch of different things that you can do, but it's

a matter of stringing it all together in a way that makes sense.

That's actually gonna take them from.

Someone who's never seen you before or, and has no idea who you are,

to suddenly being a paying client.

It's so funny, I had just, I was on a podcast interview the other day

and the host brought up that rule.

Mm-hmm.

And I think the part he said that so many people kind of freak out

about is seven hours of content, of seven hours of connecting with you.

I think that's where, you know, that concept of you have to have a YouTube

channel or a podcast or something so that you can create long form content,

valuable long form content, and then that gives you that seven hours that

hopefully people will find, and I'm sure you've experienced when people do watch.

That much of your content, when they do connect with you,

they're pretty much sold on you.

They, they know you.

And that is what I think is so powerful about video is that they really build

that know, like, and trust before they even really had a conversation with you.

Absolutely.

And I think, uh, even just a simple way before launching, I mean, we've

done a lot on YouTube over the years.

YouTube is a lot.

If you really wanna succeed on YouTube, there's a lot of.

Prep work.

There's a lot with shooting and post-production, all this kind of stuff,

and not necessarily the first strategy I'd recommend for someone who's trying

to generate leads for the business.

But a simple way to do this, if you've going live on Facebook, if you've

got a Facebook group that you're nurturing and building, or even just

on your personal or your professional page, going live, taking a topic.

Poor, like 10, 20, 30 minutes.

People, I've had so many folks who, you know, in our group, we

take kind of the, the highlights or the key concepts that they need

to learn to build their business.

And we put it in the guide section.

People will binge the guide section.

Guess what?

They're getting their seven hours, right?

They come, they, they book a call and.

It's, it's just a, a formality, if you will, at that point to get them into

the program because they're pre-sold.

That's awesome.

Now you guys also talk a little bit about borrowing other

people's traffic or audiences.

I mean, we've done this for years, since we very first started

offering our, our first programs and audience growth and development

is something that just, it takes.

Time.

It absolutely takes time and it takes more time than you ever think it's

going to when it's a, it's an ongoing process we all have to do, but there is

a a bit of a shortcut that we should be leveraging in our businesses, and that's

getting in front of other people's.

Audiences a big strategy that we use.

We're currently using it right now as we speak, but we teach our clients and,

and folks to work with as well Is what podcast guesting, getting in front of

other people's audiences if they've built an actual audience with their podcast.

And you can just jump on, share your expertise, get in front

of people, and then the people that actually resonate with you.

They can opt into your lead magnet.

They can go follow you on social, they can go snoop you out.

So podcast guesting, guesting is a great strategy for this.

But this could be anything from just, um, collaborative things in

sharing your Facebook group with each other, finding someone who has the

audience that you wanna serve and doesn't directly compete with you,

but can have a collaborative thing.

Then you can get.

Go live with each other in each other's groups.

You can do summits, you can do giveaways.

There's all kinds of ways to do this, but it should absolutely be

part of your traffic strategy in addition to your own content and

potentially some paid traffic as well.

Yeah, and the nice thing about using other people's audiences is that it's

not just the audience that you're borrowing, it's also their authority.

And so, especially if you're brand new and you don't have a lot of client

stories or a lot of testimonials that you can provide and that

have all the social proof you are.

For example, like us, uh, I've got a bachelor's in music.

Leah has a bachelor's in nursing.

We aren't exactly known as, when we first got into this, we weren't

known as great marketers, right?

So when you go on somebody else's podcast, they're bringing you on.

They're presenting you to their audience as experts, and the

audience automatically accepts that.

You don't have to try to convince people why you know what you're

talking about or why you're legitimate or anything else like that.

You're getting the authority from the host who's already built that authority

with the audience that they've built.

Earlier you guys talked about, you kind of started off with network marketing

and the move to affiliate marketing.

I think people don't realize that you can also offer that affiliate relationship.

We interviewed a woman the other day who's making, you know, 250,000 a year.

From just affiliate marketing.

So she, she promotes things that she really believes in.

So if you find somebody who really believes in what you're doing

and offer a percentage of that revenue, that person can really make

those sales for you more or less.

Absolutely.

That is the magic of affiliate marketing, and that's how, I

mean, that was our, our very.

Our first six figures in the online space, uh, it was absolutely through affiliate

marketing and it's a great place to start for folks that don't yet have an offer.

Um, they can just learn the marketing elements that they need

to and not worry about delivery.

But it's a great collaborative, um, opportunity for folks who have an audience

and they don't offer what you offer.

Well, okay.

There's a person that I trust who can do a really great job with

you and you can, um, you know.

Figure out what that percentage would be of the sale.

I

love that.

Well, if people wanna get in touch with you and work with you, tell us

a little bit about how do you work with your clients, and then how

can people get in touch with you?

We are very hands-on with our clients.

So when it comes to working with us, everything is super

customized, so we don't have a, you have to be at this level.

We have a, okay, here's the core principles and the things

that we need to, to deal with.

Where are you and how do we get you to that next stage?

And then we walk with you through those next stages.

So it really starts with a conversation with us to see where are those gaps

and how do we, how do we fit and, and, uh, work to fill those gaps for.

Checking us out, right?

We have, uh, our Digital Trailblazer podcast, which Kirsten has actually

been a guest on in the past.

It is a great place to connect with us, but, um, digital

trailblazer.com is our website.

We've got really great resources, freebies in there for you, plus opportunities

if you do want to have those next conversations, but tons of content so you

can get your seven hours in ahead of time.

I

love that.

Well, Todd and Leah, this has been so informative and so fantastic.

We're so grateful that there are people out, you helping clients who need that

kind of help and, um, and that you came here and shared some of those

really smart tips and tricks with us.

So thank you for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having us.

It's been fun.

Thanks for listening to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast.

If you enjoyed listening to this episode and you are ready to leverage video

marketing on all online platforms, or maybe even start your own video

podcast, then you need to check out the Done for You and Done with You program

at the marketing va advantage.com and take your business to the next level.