1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,100 Janice Porter: John, Hello everyone, and welcome back to 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,420 relationships rule, where we explore how authentic human 3 00:00:09,420 --> 00:00:14,280 connection is the key in thriving business. Today's guest 4 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:18,840 John Ray is someone whose work truly resonates with my own core 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,340 belief that relationships come first. John is a pricing 6 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:26,300 strategist, a business advisor, and author of this amazing book, 7 00:00:26,420 --> 00:00:32,180 The generosity mindset. He is also the host of the price and 8 00:00:32,180 --> 00:00:35,780 value Journey podcast on which I was a guest last week and had so 9 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:39,860 much fun. In this episode, we're going to look at how generosity, 10 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:43,420 when it's sincere and strategic, can be a powerful force for 11 00:00:43,420 --> 00:00:47,140 building trust, creating impact and growing a sustainable 12 00:00:47,140 --> 00:00:51,160 service based business. Whether you're a solo consultant, coach 13 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,980 or small firm professional, I think you're going to love what 14 00:00:53,980 --> 00:00:56,980 we're talking about today. So welcome to the show. John 15 00:00:57,939 --> 00:00:59,859 John Ray: Janice, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for 16 00:00:59,859 --> 00:01:03,059 having me. Thanks also for coming on my show. You were 17 00:01:03,059 --> 00:01:05,339 fantastic. Wow. Well, 18 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:07,800 Janice Porter: it was fun, and I really enjoyed it. I came off 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,520 that interview on a high because you're a great interviewer, and 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,540 I learned in your book that you like whatever his name was, Ken. 21 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:19,200 Was it the guy that bought the Remington company? You bought 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,600 the company and became a podcast host. That's right, right? You 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,060 John Ray: know, loved it. So much about the company. Yeah, 24 00:01:26,420 --> 00:01:28,520 that's kind of my story on podcasting, 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,940 Janice Porter: right? And you've been, I thought I was pretty 26 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:35,780 proud of 300 episodes. You've done. How many 100 episodes? A 27 00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:38,540 couple of 1000, I think, well, 28 00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:43,900 John Ray: I've, I've done as a host. I've done around 1200 or 29 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:48,580 so. I don't know the exact number. It's around 1200 or so, 30 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:52,900 but now when you get to 300 episodes, you're a champion. So 31 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:54,580 congratulations on that. Oh 32 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:56,860 Janice Porter: yeah, no, I wasn't looking for that. I was 33 00:01:56,860 --> 00:01:59,620 just pretty impressed with what you do, and you did such a great 34 00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:04,740 job as well. Okay, I'd like to dig into this book, because I 35 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:08,160 really enjoyed reading it. And I think it's, it's, there's a lot 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,580 of lessons in it for small business owners and 37 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:16,980 entrepreneurs that that I was reading and going, Oh yeah, that 38 00:02:16,980 --> 00:02:20,900 makes so much sense. And I also, I think what made it easy for 39 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:23,720 me. And what I loved reading were the stories. I love the 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,240 stories. And, you know, that's the whole thing, right? If 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:31,760 people can can identify it with the stories, then it sinks in a 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:38,180 little bit better. So, first of all, I think you were in 43 00:02:38,180 --> 00:02:41,560 corporate right? For many, many years, yes, yes, as most of us 44 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,940 were, and then right leave corporate and and some of us 45 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,300 thrive, and some of us struggle for a while. And I had a guest 46 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:53,380 on my show actually just went live today, yes, today, 47 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,820 yesterday, David Shriner Khan, and he talks about corporate 48 00:02:57,820 --> 00:03:03,060 refugees and how he helps them succeed in business. And so, you 49 00:03:03,060 --> 00:03:06,420 know, a lot of us are corporate refugees and and trying to 50 00:03:06,420 --> 00:03:10,020 figure it out. So you must have figured it out early, if you 51 00:03:10,020 --> 00:03:16,920 then turn to helping other service providers. So what, what 52 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:19,500 was it for you? Did you know when you left corporate this is 53 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,520 what you were going to do? Or did you have a little struggle 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,720 along the way? Oh, 55 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:25,819 John Ray: thank you for giving me so much credit, like I knew 56 00:03:25,819 --> 00:03:30,679 what I was doing. I really I'm so grateful for that. I'm hiring 57 00:03:30,679 --> 00:03:37,279 you as my PR person. Okay? Now, no, of course not. You know, I 58 00:03:37,279 --> 00:03:43,359 had my struggles and and, I mean, I had, you know, there was 59 00:03:43,359 --> 00:03:45,879 a lot, like a lot of people there, in corporate there, there 60 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:51,939 was a lot that I was perfectly suited to do, and I've always 61 00:03:51,939 --> 00:03:56,199 had a mindset around relationships and the importance 62 00:03:56,199 --> 00:04:02,039 of relationships, But that becomes a lot sharper for you 63 00:04:02,099 --> 00:04:07,259 when you're out on your own, in your own business, and you're 64 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:11,219 having to, you know, as the old saying goes, eat what you kill. 65 00:04:12,359 --> 00:04:16,199 You know, there, there's, there's that piece of it. And 66 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:19,799 let me tell you where my nose really got bloodied. It was, 67 00:04:19,799 --> 00:04:24,919 it's, it was in pricing. Yeah, so, you know, I've I've got all 68 00:04:24,919 --> 00:04:30,859 the T shirts, I've got all I've made all the mistakes. And 69 00:04:30,859 --> 00:04:36,499 here's what I learned, is that what I saw is my own problems 70 00:04:36,499 --> 00:04:41,379 with this, and what I also saw is my clients that had problems 71 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,759 with pricing, and that made me passionate about it, and I got 72 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,939 really passionate about it as I dug into it and realized there's 73 00:04:48,939 --> 00:04:54,639 not a lot of places for a business owner to to to solve 74 00:04:54,639 --> 00:05:00,599 that problem. So if you for example, this is just 1v Yet, 75 00:05:01,319 --> 00:05:05,699 the book, small business for dummies. I hate the title, yeah, 76 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:11,759 but, but it's got 250 pages, and a grand total of four and a half 77 00:05:11,999 --> 00:05:17,219 of those 250 pages is devoted to pricing. Wow, yes, says it all. 78 00:05:17,579 --> 00:05:20,719 And it's that those four four pages are written at about 79 00:05:20,719 --> 00:05:25,279 80,000 feet. I mean, there's not much you can do with what's 80 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,539 there. So the point is, is that there's, like no place to go. 81 00:05:30,679 --> 00:05:35,899 And so that's, that's what got me passionate about it. And I 82 00:05:35,899 --> 00:05:38,419 just saw so many people struggling. And eventually, of 83 00:05:38,419 --> 00:05:43,659 course, as I got into it. It ultimately led to the book. 84 00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:45,640 Janice Porter: Yeah, I was just going to say, when did you write 85 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:46,180 this book? 86 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,240 Unknown: Well, it was released at the end of 2023 87 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,560 Janice Porter: okay, okay, so it was a COVID project, possibly, 88 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:58,000 John Ray: no, no, no. It was, you know what it was? Well, it 89 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960 was kind of a COVID project, you might say, in a way. You know, a 90 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,140 lot of us came out of COVID saying all those things that we 91 00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:08,820 think we need to do, that we boxes, we need to check. It's 92 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:12,060 really time to get get at it. And that was what this was for 93 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:15,060 me, is, hey, this is time to get at it, sure. 94 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,200 Janice Porter: Okay, so we met on LinkedIn, which I love, and 95 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,500 what attracted me to read further was the picture of your 96 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:29,060 book in the banner on LinkedIn, because I love the title, the 97 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:33,080 generosity mindset, a journey to business success by raising your 98 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,760 confidence value and prices. So let's start there, confidence 99 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:44,560 and value first and then pricing. Okay? Because the 100 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,820 biggest aha for me was that value conversation. So can you 101 00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:52,060 just sort of save with the big let's start with the big 102 00:06:52,060 --> 00:06:55,960 picture. What does this mean to you and the generosity mindset? 103 00:06:56,140 --> 00:06:59,500 And let's, let's just start there. Yeah, 104 00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:04,080 John Ray: sure. So it's a bit counterintuitive, is it not? I 105 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,360 mean that that generosity, that generosity leads to better 106 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:16,740 pricing, huh? Yeah, yeah, right. And I guess that that helps me 107 00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:20,660 dispense of one misconception right off the bat is we're not 108 00:07:20,660 --> 00:07:26,240 talking about giving anything away, per se. Well, yeah, sure, 109 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,900 you can be strategic in the things that you do for others, 110 00:07:30,140 --> 00:07:34,940 but what we're talking about here is getting out of your own 111 00:07:34,940 --> 00:07:41,560 head and in serving others first and being generous using a much 112 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:48,640 broader definition of that word, look out for others. First, 113 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,000 what? What are their needs, hopes, wants, desires, fears 114 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,120 that you can help them with, regardless of whether that 115 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,760 benefits you in the short run or not. 116 00:07:58,420 --> 00:08:01,440 Janice Porter: And, right? Yeah, yeah, totally agree. Yeah, 117 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:01,860 right. 118 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,480 John Ray: And if you're known as that person, and if you follow 119 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,720 this falsely, by the way, you will be that person. Because the 120 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,420 truth of the matter is, there's not a lot of competition on the 121 00:08:12,420 --> 00:08:13,860 relationship Street. 122 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,480 Janice Porter: It's strange, but true, right? Yes, right, despite 123 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,180 John Ray: all your efforts, after 300 podcasts, Janice, you 124 00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:25,820 know, there's just not a lot of people that really do it. 125 00:08:25,940 --> 00:08:30,260 There's a lot of people that say they're do it, but if you really 126 00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:33,740 do it, you're known for being a connector. You're known for 127 00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:38,720 being a person that looks out for other people. And what that 128 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:44,080 does is it brings people back to you. The universe wants to help 129 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:44,440 you. 130 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,800 Janice Porter: The Law of Reciprocity, right? The Law of 131 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 John Ray: Reciprocity? Yeah, exactly. And 132 00:08:50,980 --> 00:08:53,680 Janice Porter: it's funny, because, as you know, I'm 133 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:58,600 involved with a greeting card company that has been part of my 134 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,720 world for 16 years now, and that's just we, we preach that 135 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,900 all the time. It's like, send out to give. Don't send out to 136 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,660 get because you send out to give, you don't know the 137 00:09:09,660 --> 00:09:13,620 universe will come back 1010, fold, and it won't necessarily 138 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:18,120 be from that same person. So that's the philosophy that I've 139 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,940 I've sort of looked at for free or actually not looked at, but, 140 00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:30,260 but walk that walk for this many years. So in the in the first 141 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:33,440 part of your book, and when you're talking about value, the 142 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:40,840 value that that you have, the sorry, that your value for, your 143 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,400 what you do and for who you are is not necessarily the same as 144 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,640 how you're perceived. It's perceived value. And that's 145 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:55,840 huge, because I realized when I was reading this that sometimes 146 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,840 when I'm talking to a prospect, and I'll admit it, I've been 147 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,080 doing this for a long time. Mind. But there are times when 148 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,360 you go, oops, I shouldn't have done that, or I did it the wrong 149 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,320 way, or whatever. It's never perfect. And when it comes to 150 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,040 talking about, you know, yourself, or about getting 151 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,820 business and or talking those, you know, pricing, all of that 152 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:19,560 stuff, we forget that. It who cares about me. It's what they 153 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:25,100 see and what they want to have happen, and if I don't as the if 154 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:27,860 they're my prospect and I don't understand that, then I'm not 155 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:31,460 going to get anywhere, and I'm not going to satisfy them. So 156 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:37,760 how do you how do you can you teach that like or is it 157 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,800 innate? I mean, that's the thing. 158 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,200 John Ray: Well, for some people, it is innate, but here's, here's 159 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,460 what we've and you're a teacher, so you'll get this immediately. 160 00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:56,020 We are taught in a way as we're coming up that works against us. 161 00:10:56,740 --> 00:11:02,100 It teaches us skills and it teaches us whatever craft we 162 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:07,260 have, but we are taught we're supposed to have the right 163 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,540 answer. We're not taught how to ask questions right we're taught 164 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:18,120 to give answers. And the idea here is to get skilled in asking 165 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,880 questions. Bingo, to be use the word you use a lot, to be 166 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,580 curious, yeah, to ask questions, to learn where people's heads 167 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:32,180 are, and not just ask a question, but follow up on that 168 00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:37,880 question, right? And so that's the skill we have to develop, 169 00:11:37,940 --> 00:11:42,820 and that is, yeah, I think it is innate for some people, but I 170 00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:46,600 think for a lot of us who are particularly in the professional 171 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,820 services business, where we've got a particular expertise that 172 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:58,120 we're drilled on, and we've done the work for years, and we know 173 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,740 the answers. For a lot of people, we're just used to 174 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,740 spouting those out. And what I'm suggesting is to pump the 175 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:12,660 brakes, and let's get into the head of our clients. And what we 176 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:18,780 will find if we do that, is we will find that they see value in 177 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:20,880 us, that we don't see ourselves. 178 00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:25,160 Janice Porter: And that is okay. Okay, say that Anne, they see 179 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:31,580 value in us, that we don't see ourselves Correct, correct. So 180 00:12:32,060 --> 00:12:35,840 give me an example of that, please. Yeah. It's huge, 181 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:43,360 John Ray: yeah. So for example, when we start asking questions 182 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,980 like, well, let me tell you a story, maybe that's a way to get 183 00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:54,820 at this. So, yeah, so I was with a client. This may be in the 184 00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:57,160 book. I can't remember I put this in the book or not, but I 185 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:06,420 was with a client who I had been referred to, and he's going on 186 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:08,640 and on about all the great things that are going on in his 187 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,940 business. And, you know, after a while, I'm thinking I marked 188 00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:17,220 this page. Oh, you did. Okay, good, yeah, yeah. I'm glad 189 00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:22,520 that's in there. Yeah. He he went on and on about how 190 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,860 wonderful everything was. And I'm thinking, why did I get 191 00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:28,580 referred to this person? Right? What's the problem here? Well, 192 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:33,740 his spouse came in the room, and we did the introductions, and 193 00:13:33,740 --> 00:13:37,340 when she found out who I was, she was like, Oh my gosh, thank 194 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,480 you so much for being here. Like, we need you so badly. And 195 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,780 she just proceeded to, like the truth blew in the room. I mean, 196 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:52,540 right, right. And so the the his problem was not just with the 197 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:57,160 business and all the things that I found out ultimately in the 198 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,340 conversation, his problem was the spouse. She wasn't happy. 199 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,780 And so I wasn't there just to solve his business problems or 200 00:14:09,780 --> 00:14:14,100 walk him through that. I was there to help a relationship 201 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:19,380 that was frayed because of this business. Yeah, wow. And so now, 202 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:24,800 when you start talking about that, that value is enormous. 203 00:14:24,980 --> 00:14:29,480 Yes, I hear you, and you see, if we don't ask the question 204 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,620 questions, like in a discovery call with a client, if we're not 205 00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:36,920 asking questions like, well, you know, how does your spouse feel 206 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:42,040 about all this? See, then we don't find these things out, 207 00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:45,460 yeah, and we don't find out where clients see value, and 208 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:50,980 what we do if we get there, what we'll see is they see much, much 209 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:55,780 more value than we see ourselves, and because all we're 210 00:14:55,780 --> 00:15:01,260 looking at is the job, right, right? That uses our. Skills not 211 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:05,700 the outcomes that come out of the transformation that we 212 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:06,180 bring. 213 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:15,240 Janice Porter: And in what you just described is having the the 214 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,780 skill as well. I have to call it a skill of being a really, 215 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:21,680 really good listener. We know we have to know how to ask the 216 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,000 right questions, which takes curiosity. I believe that we 217 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,360 have to do that. And then it's about asking, and then it's 218 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,960 about listening, and really listening. And I already today, 219 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,840 heard you say a couple of things about me that, and we don't know 220 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,580 each other that well. We've had maybe three conversations, but 221 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:46,180 you have come back to me with I know you're a curious person, 222 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:49,180 Janice, so you've done your homework, and you know I'm a 223 00:15:49,180 --> 00:15:52,120 teacher, and you know you've said these things to me that 224 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,260 make me notice, that you've paid attention. So those things are 225 00:15:56,260 --> 00:16:00,660 important in having that conversation, to think he 226 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:04,800 understands me. He knows where I'm coming from, and so I think 227 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,900 the questions and the listening skills are super huge. So how do 228 00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:19,440 you then show that you well, because you go from the value 229 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,140 conversation where they spill their beans here and in this 230 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,740 example you've given, and now you've got to bring it around to 231 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,100 how you can help them that will not just help the business, but 232 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:36,140 everything else. So is that in the same conversation? Is it? 233 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,540 Does money get talked about in that conversation? Yeah, 234 00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:44,440 John Ray: that's a great question. It so it depends on 235 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:51,160 the client. What I would say as a general proposition is your 236 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:59,200 ability to price is either constrained or enabled by the 237 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,200 depth of the value conversation that you're willing to have with 238 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:12,120 a client, and sometimes that value conversation is a couple 239 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:16,680 of conversations, maybe even more, that you have over time. 240 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:22,580 If it's a client, a current client, you're always having a 241 00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:28,760 value conversation, I think is it's ongoing, is, you know, 242 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,940 because you're checking in to see where the client sees value 243 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,700 in the whatever transformation You're helping to enable. So 244 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:44,920 that's, I think it really depends on your willingness to 245 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,500 have the conversation. But then, of course, some clients are 246 00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:51,460 impatient, right? They want to get to what the bottom line is, 247 00:17:51,460 --> 00:17:55,060 what the pricing is, and that kind of thing. And you can be 248 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,440 herded into that because you kind of want to get there too. 249 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,380 You want to start talking about what the scope is and all that 250 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:10,500 kind of stuff. So it really there's some conversational 251 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,580 muscle that we have to develop here, and it takes some 252 00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:18,660 practice. This is why I call one reason. I call my podcast the 253 00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:22,340 price and value journey. It's a journey. We're learning these 254 00:18:22,340 --> 00:18:23,780 things, right? That's true. 255 00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:26,840 Janice Porter: True, knowing when to speak price and when to 256 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,780 when is the right time or not. Sometimes, though, they come in 257 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:32,300 at the beginning, and you talk about this in the book as well, 258 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,240 and they say, so how much do you How much do you charge? And you 259 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,960 don't even know them. And you know that, right? So you have a 260 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,460 great answer for that. I think you already used it once. It 261 00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:43,420 depends, right? 262 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,220 John Ray: Well, yeah. I mean, if I understand your your interest 263 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:52,900 in that, it here's the deal. All my clients are a little 264 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,560 different, and they have different needs and and 265 00:18:56,620 --> 00:19:02,520 concerns, and we need to have a conversation about your 266 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,240 business. And first of all, even just to decide whether I'm the 267 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,140 right fit, because I may not be the right fit, yeah, and, and if 268 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:16,380 I'm not, I'll find a good place to refer you, but it requires a 269 00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:23,960 conversation, and, and, and so that I can help you understand, 270 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,380 like, what, what the best prescription is, I guess, for 271 00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:32,060 your business, and then the pricing comes out of that. 272 00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:38,900 Janice Porter: So with the type of clients that you work with, 273 00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:46,360 are some of them in businesses where they're kind of in and out 274 00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:49,900 with clients, like maybe they do, you know, a few hours work 275 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:55,360 for them, and then it could be done. So because I feel 276 00:19:55,360 --> 00:20:00,240 sometimes that the work that I do is is just a blip, a. Along 277 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,060 the way for these people to get them, you know, say, looking 278 00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:08,340 better and and using LinkedIn more effectively, because they 279 00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:11,580 don't really know how to use it. But I think sometimes it takes 280 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:15,840 more time, or could take more time than it does, because they 281 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,380 go as I have done in the past, where I've spent money on 282 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:23,780 something to learn a system or something, and then I don't go 283 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:31,400 back for the follow ups or the, you know, the the extra classes, 284 00:20:31,460 --> 00:20:36,500 because I think I know what I'm doing and I don't. So how do you 285 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:40,300 think there's, there's opportunity there that, and how 286 00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:43,000 would you go back to that opportunity so that you are 287 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,580 making those clients more long lasting clients, and therefore 288 00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:53,440 better at being referral partners for you? Possibly, 289 00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,200 John Ray: yeah, that's a great question. So there are some 290 00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:08,700 service providers who have short term engagements. And part of 291 00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:17,700 what I think you have to develop is staged work for clients. So 292 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:22,520 what I mean by that is and develop options around those, 293 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,020 okay, so that's another thing I talk about in the book, is just 294 00:21:27,020 --> 00:21:30,020 the power of options, you know, using a good, better, best 295 00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:35,300 model. I love that, yeah. So what you can do is you can take 296 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:42,940 that, that model of of your the journey you take clients through 297 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,920 and in your business is a great example where you can do a 298 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,420 profile overhaul, but that only takes them so far on LinkedIn, 299 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,880 right? But there are some other things that you can do, which in 300 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,080 terms of helping them learn how to connect, build their network, 301 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:06,660 that kind of thing, right? And then there's, you know, how do 302 00:22:06,660 --> 00:22:09,600 you know what to post? How do you do that? How you know? How 303 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,600 do you create content that's that's resonant, right? How do 304 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,680 you make comments that help build your network? I mean, so 305 00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:23,540 this is something a lot deeper, right, right? We've just 306 00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:28,700 described a good, better, best model right there. And so what 307 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:35,360 you can simply do is create a model that has these three 308 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:42,040 options. And the good is for folks that are just getting 309 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,700 their sea legs on LinkedIn, you might say, or have ignored it 310 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,760 for quite some time, right? They're just not ready to take 311 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:54,520 the full plunge, right? But what happens is, is that you've those 312 00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:57,580 good clients, the ones that you've done that profile 313 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:03,840 overhaul for, they're sitting there waiting yes to the next 314 00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:08,640 level, whenever they're ready. Yes and giving your skills at 315 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,100 relationship, uh, tending, shall we say, you're going to be 316 00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:20,100 following up with them in a in a non salesy, elegant way to say, 317 00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:23,360 hey, hey, not bugging you. Just here when you're ready. 318 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,220 Janice Porter: Yeah, yeah. It's good to say that it's good 319 00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:34,760 because I have the good better, best. It's always good for it 320 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,500 can always be overhauled. It can always be tweaked. But I think 321 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040 I'm just like everybody else. I think I'm leaving money on the 322 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,760 table. I think I need to, you know, there's only so much time 323 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,920 in the day. And it's funny I say that I just I'm going into a 324 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,160 weekend this weekend where we're looking after my granddaughter, 325 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,440 who's five, and my daughter told me last night that she went she 326 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,340 woke up at 230 in the morning last night, never went back to 327 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:07,380 bed. And I'm like, seriously, this child doesn't sleep, yeah, 328 00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:10,440 so I'm thinking about time in the day. It's time in the night 329 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,340 as well, right? Anyway, no, this is all good. This is all good. 330 00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:15,720 So Well, 331 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,360 John Ray: let me, let me make one other suggestion, if I can, 332 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:27,920 is that this is what you what you're developing. Here is 333 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:33,380 something that you're agnostic on. Where people come out is 334 00:24:33,380 --> 00:24:36,560 that you don't care the way you're going to price. It is you 335 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,980 don't care whether they pick good, better or best. It's just 336 00:24:39,980 --> 00:24:43,360 like when you pull into Starbucks, they could care less 337 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:49,060 what what particular drink you get. They could care less even 338 00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:51,280 though they've got preferences off what they make the most 339 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,900 money on, right? So that's where your head needs to be, because 340 00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:58,900 if you're that kind of professional of value, which you 341 00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:03,720 are, um. Um, people are going to come back to you. They're going 342 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,080 to come back because, hey, this is so good. And I've gotten 343 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,500 results out of this. I need more. I need more than what, 344 00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:13,320 what I signed up for, right? 345 00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:15,720 Janice Porter: No, I love it that that's that's so true. It's 346 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,980 like, and at the same time, if they just, for example, chose 347 00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:23,540 the good option, and then you spent that time with them, 348 00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:26,840 they've built the trust. You've built the trust with them that 349 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,240 will will also open that door to doing some more work when the 350 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:39,440 time is right. Yeah, they trust you for sure. So we've talked a 351 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,120 little bit about price already then. So there was something 352 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:49,540 else. So I was thinking about one of the stories in here. Oh, 353 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,040 no, just a minute I 354 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,160 it was something 355 00:25:55,900 --> 00:26:01,920 I should have marked. Oh, okay, this is an interesting piece. I 356 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,380 thought selling to your own wallet. I liked that. Can you 357 00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:09,720 speak to that? Do you want me to read anything here? 358 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:16,620 John Ray: No. I mean, yeah. I think a lot of us that have done 359 00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:19,920 this kind of know what we're talking about, right? That what 360 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:29,180 we're doing is we've, we've got, we're pre judging whether the 361 00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:34,280 client is going to think this is, quote, unquote fair or not 362 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:41,140 fair. I hate that word in this context. We we're deciding for 363 00:26:41,140 --> 00:26:45,880 the client whether they can afford it or not, yes, yes, or 364 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,420 whether they've got the budget for it or not. And a whole big 365 00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:55,360 proportion of small businesses don't even keep a budget. So 366 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,780 please don't tell me it's not in your budget. You don't even have 367 00:26:58,780 --> 00:26:59,740 a budget, right? 368 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,180 Janice Porter: No, if you if you feel there's enough value, 369 00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:05,640 you'll find the money, right? Isn't 370 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:11,160 John Ray: amazing how that works and and actually, budgets are 371 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:17,040 priorities. Priorities change, yes, priorities Yeah, they 372 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,160 change based on value and value that's perceived. So that's how 373 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,800 you have to think about that budget objection that people 374 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:25,340 give you. 375 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:27,380 Janice Porter: Yeah? Some people, somebody once said to 376 00:27:27,380 --> 00:27:32,780 me, it's not that I can't afford it. I choose to say, or I say I, 377 00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:37,400 I choose to spend my money somewhere else, right now, 378 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,560 right? Yeah, yeah. 379 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,380 John Ray: So, so you know, if people want it bad enough, 380 00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:47,320 they'll find the money. Even if it's not in the business, 381 00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:48,460 they'll find the money. 382 00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:50,260 Janice Porter: Yeah, so true, isn't it? 383 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:57,700 John Ray: Yeah. So what we've got to get to a point is service 384 00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:01,860 providers, is that we're not prejudging what people can 385 00:28:01,860 --> 00:28:05,580 afford, how they'll pay for it, anything like that. The question 386 00:28:05,580 --> 00:28:13,740 is, the comparison here is the the value that that I'm 387 00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:20,660 delivering as a service provider relative to pricing that takes 388 00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:24,680 just a little piece of that value and that suddenly, this is 389 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,260 an investment. It becomes an investment. It becomes a a 390 00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:33,800 linked exchange that I'm delivering value, and you're 391 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,520 getting a big outcome for the price that you're paying. 392 00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:44,920 Janice Porter: So in so many, oh, I'm sorry, someone's trying 393 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:54,580 to get hold of me in so many service based businesses that 394 00:28:54,580 --> 00:29:00,120 threw me off. I Yeah, 395 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:18,060 okay, I was thinking about the trap of hourly pricing. And when 396 00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:25,640 you are providing a service, and you're, you've already brought 397 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,840 the value conversation, and you know, you understand where the 398 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,600 clients coming from, and what the transformation needs to be, 399 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,040 and how do you get because it's, it's a stickler for me sometimes 400 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,620 trying to think of, okay, if I'm not charging by the hour. How do 401 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:45,520 I set my pricing? So can you speak to that? 402 00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:55,780 John Ray: Yeah, yeah. So the where you need to be is this is 403 00:29:55,780 --> 00:30:03,060 where the questions come in. Is getting. Clients to verbalize 404 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,500 where they see value in transformation and how much that 405 00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:12,780 value is. So let's go back to our example of the guy whose 406 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:17,640 business supposedly had no problems, right? And suddenly it 407 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,780 does have problems, and the biggest one is his business 408 00:30:20,780 --> 00:30:27,500 partner, his wife, yes, so, you know. So when you when I hear 409 00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:34,520 that, what the way I should have responded to him is to say, you 410 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,260 know, hey, what would it look like, and if you had a lot more 411 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:44,920 peaceful home life. What would that look like? And you see, you 412 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,960 start people down the road of thinking about what 413 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:55,060 transformation looks like and feels like, and how it changes 414 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,560 things for them. And you, what you get to is a point where it's 415 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,800 not just about how much more money the business made, or or 416 00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:07,680 like if you're accountant, how much taxes you saved, or 417 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,360 something like that, it's it's not just the the outcome of the 418 00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:16,500 engagement, per se. It's what you're able to do because of the 419 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:25,400 transformation that is much bigger than the work itself. So 420 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,400 what does peace at home look like? It's priceless, right? So 421 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:37,640 what does that do? What that does is it, it, it's a much 422 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,040 higher value. It's it's value that's priceless, of course, but 423 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,500 it increases willingness to pay 424 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,280 Janice Porter: Yes, yes, I see. So 425 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,000 John Ray: here's a little cheeky example for you. You don't 426 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:01,200 think, when you factor in what the cost of college education is 427 00:32:01,260 --> 00:32:05,940 yes, condoms certainly don't seem more too expensive anymore, 428 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,780 right? So see, this is the point. It's like, you've got to 429 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:16,860 get to a point where people are thinking about the long term 430 00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:21,200 implications of the transformation and what that 431 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,500 enables them to do with their business, with their with their 432 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:32,900 lives. What does it mean that I can take the family to Rome, 433 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:37,520 Italy, where we've always wanted to go instead of, you know, the 434 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,540 usual vacation we've always done, right? What does that 435 00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:44,500 mean? Yeah, right. So, see the it's these things you've got to 436 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:48,400 get to, and when you can get to that, it just changes everything 437 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,000 in terms of willingness to pay and the kind of pricing you can 438 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,680 achieve. I 439 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,540 Janice Porter: think we've come full circle, because I think 440 00:32:55,540 --> 00:33:00,040 that's that, again, goes back to the value conversation first. 441 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:07,560 So, right? So, so when you work with a client and help them set 442 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,340 their pricing strategies, like, how do you pick numbers out of 443 00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:15,900 the air if they're not based on, you know, an hourly piece, is it 444 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:20,420 just adding more things, or is it just the perceived value? If 445 00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:21,320 that makes sense. 446 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,700 John Ray: No, that does make sense. It's actually both so it 447 00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:31,820 so it's certainly getting at where clients perceive value, 448 00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:37,400 sharpening this the saw when it comes to asking the questions 449 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,280 that uncover where clients see perceived value. But frankly, a 450 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,860 lot of clients that I work with, what they what they don't see is 451 00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:51,460 all the different ways they and different kinds of ways they 452 00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:56,140 deliver their service that have value. I mean, for example, how 453 00:33:56,140 --> 00:34:02,040 fast is this engagement going to work or unfold? How fast will 454 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:02,820 that, right? 455 00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:04,560 Janice Porter: Okay, that's another example in your book. 456 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,400 Yes. Okay, 457 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,940 John Ray: so speed, yeah. So Janice, are you and I working 458 00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:17,520 over? You know, we're my hair is on fire to take, take care of my 459 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,820 LinkedIn issues, yeah, and I need as much of Janice as I can 460 00:34:22,820 --> 00:34:24,800 get for the next two weeks. Yeah, 461 00:34:24,860 --> 00:34:27,140 Janice Porter: I had a client recently that just did that. She 462 00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:30,080 wanted to. She paid the top price, she said, But I have to 463 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,700 get it done by the end of March. 464 00:34:31,879 --> 00:34:34,819 John Ray: There you go. Yeah. So somebody that's in a hurry, 465 00:34:34,999 --> 00:34:42,039 yeah, they've got a higher willingness to pay. Am I working 466 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:45,699 with Janice or am I working with Janice's assistant? You know, 467 00:34:45,759 --> 00:34:49,839 there's, there's another one. What's my access to Janice? 468 00:34:50,739 --> 00:34:57,279 Okay, do I do I get email access? Only Can I call you 469 00:34:57,339 --> 00:34:59,919 baby, what? What's my access? See, they're all sorts. 470 00:34:59,999 --> 00:35:02,519 Different ways that the service is delivered. 471 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:04,800 Janice Porter: Yeah, that's perfect. And I think you also 472 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,200 had an example in the book as well about, I think it was the 473 00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:17,580 was she? It was either the the bookkeeper or it was the 474 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,860 organizer, where you had a chart in there and you showed the 475 00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:25,580 percentages, and you, you, you, you're a finance guy, so you 476 00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:28,640 looked at the money as well. But the the chart was good. And I 477 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,880 think that's, there's so many good things. I said there's so 478 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:38,180 many good things in this book. So am I right there? Yeah, okay, 479 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:39,080 well, yeah. 480 00:35:39,140 --> 00:35:42,880 John Ray: Well, and here's one example that I used in in in the 481 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,540 book too, that that might be helpful is, you know, I had a 482 00:35:46,540 --> 00:35:50,560 garage door problem. Oh, I love this story, yeah. And long, long 483 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,340 story short is, you know, the guy came out right that 484 00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:59,260 afternoon, and, you know, he could have charged me a whole 485 00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:03,720 lot more than He charged me. He still overcharged you. Well, he 486 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,880 his, his, well, his problem was, is that, is that he didn't ask 487 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,480 enough questions. Yes, understand why I was motivated 488 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:18,900 to get it done that day. Yeah, and so. And the motivation was, 489 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,680 my wife wanted this thing done now, 490 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,640 Unknown: do it now. Do it now. And so I would 491 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,460 John Ray: have paid a lot more than He charged me. Yeah, he 492 00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:30,020 could have paid me a rush charge, 493 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,620 Janice Porter: yes, yeah, yeah. Or, you know, 494 00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:35,480 John Ray: put that on my invoice. I would have paid it 495 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,840 gladly. Or he could have said, you know, if you want to save 496 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,640 some money, we can get out there next week. Yeah, and yeah, 497 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,220 Janice Porter: but you know, I It's funny because you just made 498 00:36:45,220 --> 00:36:47,920 me think of something that I'm not going to go into in this 499 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,060 conversation, because it's just makes my blood boil. But what I 500 00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:55,720 noticed about it was, when you're first dealing with some 501 00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,140 people, and it's the first exposure, it's the first 502 00:36:59,740 --> 00:37:02,940 transaction that you're going to have, and that's exactly what it 503 00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:05,460 turns out to be as a transaction. And then something 504 00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:08,220 goes wrong, and now you try to get it fixed, it's murder, 505 00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:12,060 trying to get it fixed. Murder. Nobody cares. Nobody owns it, 506 00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:16,200 and nobody will call you back. And it goes on and on, and 507 00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:20,660 anyway, that's what I'm dealing with. So it's very annoying, and 508 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,980 you can't do business that way. Oh, you know, well, but yeah, 509 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,520 John Ray: well, people do and they don't forget that. What 510 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,120 they forget is like, who's going to refer you if you do business 511 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,020 that way? Yeah, you expecting clients to refer you? Who's 512 00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:42,400 going to write your Google reviews that you're COVID, that 513 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,940 you're trying to build up. Yeah, who's going to do that? I mean, 514 00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:49,540 there's, there's all sorts of ways this comes back to you. 515 00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:55,420 Yes, exactly, yeah. And so why? Why do business that way? 516 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,840 Janice Porter: I love this conversation. I think we I'm 517 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,560 going to have to have you back, because we could go on forever, 518 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920 but I'm going to have to wrap it up, and I would like to ask you 519 00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:11,100 couple of quick fire questions at the end. One, do you I 520 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,220 noticed you quoted a lot of books that I recognized in your 521 00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:19,740 book, some of the good ones from way back and still, classics. Do 522 00:38:19,740 --> 00:38:22,280 you read today? Do you read business books? Do you read 523 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,580 novels? Do you read in book form? Do you read audibly? 524 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,380 Listen? Do you watch? What do you 525 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,460 John Ray: do? I typically read what I do, but, but I also I 526 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:37,760 like Audible for on the go, it depends on the book. 527 00:38:38,060 --> 00:38:42,280 Janice Porter: Okay, okay. Do you listen to podcasts? Oh, yes, 528 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,900 absolutely. What's your favorite one? 529 00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:46,540 John Ray: What relationship rules? Gotta 530 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,560 Janice Porter: get it right though. It's relationships rule, 531 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,280 yeah, there 532 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:59,080 John Ray: you go. There you go. Though, yeah, yes. I love, I 533 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,700 love podcast, and I love listening to, seriously, I do 534 00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:09,180 listen to the to the I get hooked on podcast host and what, 535 00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:13,020 just like any other podcast listener. And so I've listened 536 00:39:13,020 --> 00:39:17,580 to a number of years. I love them. And so, you know, I That's 537 00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:21,500 what gets me a lot of the podcast I listen to, I end up 538 00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:25,640 Janice Porter: talking to fans. Yeah, that's another piece, 539 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,100 actually, that I loved in the end of your book about 540 00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:32,000 podcasting as a marketing tool, because it is. It's amazing what 541 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,420 the where it takes you and the people that you meet. So I love 542 00:39:35,420 --> 00:39:39,080 that, and I think that's how we met, in a sense, because we both 543 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,940 had a podcast and it was an opportunity for us to talk. So 544 00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:46,720 thank you, John, thank you for being here. Last question, best 545 00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,900 piece of business advice you would share with my audience, 546 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,480 which is the same as your audience, really, business 547 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,240 owners, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, service providers, 548 00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,960 John Ray: just understand that clients see more. Value in you 549 00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:05,760 and what you do for them. Then you see yourself, and if you 550 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:12,000 understand that and make that a part of how you communicate, how 551 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,320 you deliver your service, how you position your service, your 552 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,980 business development, it will change everything. It'll change 553 00:40:19,980 --> 00:40:25,040 your pricing. It'll change how you market, how much you have to 554 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,120 market. It will change everything in your business. So 555 00:40:29,180 --> 00:40:30,980 to me, that's a powerful idea. 556 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,220 Janice Porter: It certainly is. Thank you so much. Thank you for 557 00:40:34,220 --> 00:40:39,920 being here today, and I know that it's about showing up with 558 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,720 intention, clarity and service, and in a world where Trust is 559 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:48,340 everything, your your insights offer a blueprint for building 560 00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:53,140 client relationships rooted in value and respect. If we want to 561 00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:57,280 learn more about your work, John, where can they find you? I 562 00:40:57,940 --> 00:41:00,300 will put it in the show notes, of course. Well, 563 00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,180 John Ray: thank you. And first of all, thanks again for for 564 00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:06,900 having me. It's just been such a delight my pleasure. Yeah, I 565 00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:09,480 really have enjoyed our conversation. And thank you 566 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,860 again for your great work. So you can reach me on my website 567 00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:19,320 is one place to connect. John ray.co, J, O, H, N, R, A, y, 568 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,500 dot, C O, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm John Ray one on 569 00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,940 LinkedIn. I write a lot about these issues on LinkedIn and 570 00:41:28,940 --> 00:41:33,860 post there. And then my podcast, as you mentioned, is called the 571 00:41:33,860 --> 00:41:37,760 price and value journey, and you can find that that podcast 572 00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:40,900 wherever you access your 573 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:45,040 Janice Porter: podcast, so perfect, and your book The 574 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,720 generosity mindset, the 575 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,900 John Ray: generosity mindset.com to learn more about my book, 576 00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:50,860 perfect. 577 00:41:50,860 --> 00:41:53,080 Janice Porter: Thank you so much. John, again, it's been a 578 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,140 pleasure talking to you and thank you to my audience, please 579 00:41:56,140 --> 00:41:58,960 remember to stay connected and be remembered. You.