Hey, I'm Paige Killian, founder and CEO of everything

with style. I've built a business helping busy moms of

littles get organized in three simple steps. Like many of my

clients, I love being a mom and I also desire more. If you've

ever felt that stirring in your heart, that whisper or really

loud voice that keeps you up at night, then you are in the right

place. Because this is not a solo mission. Whether you're a

little curious or totally ready to be a mom, boss and use your

God given gifts to serve others step into your calling, turn

your passions into purpose, and still make it to the carpool

line on time then girlfriend, it's time to pivot. I've got you

now let's get started

Hey there welcome back to another episode of the time to

pivot podcast. I am so fired up about this upcoming series where

we are going to be talking with some amazing experts in many

different fields have their expertise and I am so thrilled

to start off with the incredible V incomparable sausage dog

loving, wonderful mom BKs agency literary genius and my current

friend, former editor by the way, Jessica Killingly, I am so

happy you're here. I have been dying for this interview for I

don't know how long now. I like

the fact that I'm a current friend. Like if this interview

goes badly, I may get axed,

we'll see how it's gonna play out. You know,

I may I know this, the sausage dog up on our best behavior? I

won't cos he won't bark, it will be good.

Yes, I do have to share with you all that we somehow are a match

made on Earth. And in heaven. As far as I'm concerned. The big

joke is that when I started getting this feeling that I

needed to write a book, I needed to put some thoughts and

feelings that I was having about organization down on paper and

possibly get it out into the world. That Jessica, Jake Hill,

as I lovingly call her, and I'm Pete Hill, by the way, of

course, two killers where you know, we have to be together. So

the big joke is that I'm this Christian who listen, if you

know me in person, you know, I love Jesus. And sometimes it

costs a little Jessica loves to draw all the bombs all at the

time that were questioning like, is this the right time set?

Yeah, she drops themselves appropriately. And the timing is

so perfect, because she is all about lighting a fire under you.

If you want to get something done, you need to work with this

lady, because you're gonna get it done. I feel like I said

something in one of your testimonials about like, a

gentle butt kicking or something like that was you it was like,

kind,

gentle about it. But no, this is true. So because this was our

match was that, you know, Paige is a very upstanding, loving

Christian, and I'm as weary atheist, and I was the one that

was writing more Jesus plays in the margin. Because when she was

drawing on her faith, even when she's talking about tidying up

your pantry, the writing just sparkled. And that was what I

wanted to get more out of her on. So yeah, I was we you know,

we communicated by 90s Hip Hop lyrics, Bible verses and

swearing.

Yes. And that's how the book got written.

Yeah, it

somehow got written, and I'm really proud of it. And

honestly, it just it wouldn't have come to be without you. I'm

just trying to go back and think about how we originally met. I

feel like it was maybe in like, Rachel McMichaels there was some

sort of online Well, I

think Rachel I think Rachel McMichael tech Barbie was the

common thread. So yes, I think I think that is how that is how we

met which so some some what really wonderful online, like

business training and things like that. And yes,

I love that. You just reminded me that we called her tech

Barbie that was that absolutely. You

actually get to meet in person because I did swing through LA

in 2019 on my on my holidays, and we got to we got to hug him

but I got to see how short she is in real life.

I am really short I did were some wedge heels because I was

afraid she would realize how short I was and that I would

have no authority whatsoever. This is by the way how I'm

feeling with my daughter who is now at eye level and she's 12 So

you know, of course because I'm married to Donnie and he's a

giant so of course my children are going to be giants. So But

yes, we did get to meet in person and I know that we are

family now because my son leaned over and took like a bite of

vegetable off your plate and put it in his mouth. And we bought

we were like okay, I'm

totally fine. I do completely fine, completely fine. And for

the record, you are at like Mary Poppins practically perfect in

every way.

So Well, listen, I will, I am really glad that I put you in

the acknowledgments in the back of the book. Thank you for

saying that I'll pay you later. I appreciate

as a patient, as opposed to having people who do that, and

then no time to play. So

Oh, my goodness, no, wait, listen, this is going to be

something that we need to talk about right now. Because you did

mention perfection. And here's what I want to know, if someone

is considering if they have these ideas swirling around in

their head, and they're considering putting it down on

paper and writing a book and getting it out into the world.

Or if maybe they've never considered writing a book, but

people are telling them the stuff that you're talking about,

or the stuff that you're teaching, or the things that you

have experience with up to write a book. I know that a lot of

people have heard you should write a book, you should write a

book. I started hearing that as I was in people's homes, and I

was organizing for them. And I didn't have everything figured

out, please, I still don't know, perfection here. It's really

true. I'm not Mary Poppins, okay. If you feel like you are,

as you put it, and speak more on this, a few steps ahead of

somebody else, and you feel like you have something to

contribute. And you feel like it is an opportunity for you to put

this message into a book. How do you suggest somebody might get

started with that.

So I think the first thing that's really, really important

is to be really honest with yourself. And if someone keeps

saying to you, or you should really write a book, just check

in and make sure that they're not just saying that just so

that you'll stop talking to them and go away. Yeah, just as the

first little moment of self checking. But joking, joking

aside, one of the big mistakes that I see people making when

they're starting to think about and this is a nonfiction book, I

think this is different if it's fiction is that they, they come

to me with an idea that they come to me with the book that

they want to write, which is like, obviously, of course they

would and why shouldn't they. But ultimately, it's actually

about the book that your reader needs to read. And so the first

step is really working out, I have this idea for a book, who

is going to benefit from that, because every book solves a

problem, even fiction, because it's always the problem of you

know, being bored. But every book solves a problem. And

that's why we buy a book, because we want to know

something, whether it's practical something about how to

do something better in our lives, or, you know, some get

some comfort or education or, you know, sense of community.

That book exists for the reader, not for the writer. And so, you

know, people say, Oh, I've always wanted to write a book,

it's like, yeah, that's not gonna be the reason anyone's

gonna buy it, though. Nobody cares that you've always wanted

to write a book. So that book,

you could do it for your own therapy, which it did turn out

to be for me, but you're right. Is it? You the author, or who

Yeah,

so that that is a whole other different kettle of fish,

actually, which I think is a really important thing to say.

Because, you know, actually, sometimes, if you want to write

a book, and you don't care if anybody ever reads it, like then

brilliant, just knock yourself out, do it. It's very

therapeutic. It's very cathartic. We talk a lot about,

I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert, possibly that first

said this about writing from the scar and not the wound. So if

you if it's if it's to be read by other people, then that sort

of processing and healing, if that's relevant to the subject

matter, kind of needs to have happened. But if you're writing

it for yourself, and only yourself, then like, let it be

warts and all, it's only going to be you that's reading it, let

it be part of your healing journey. And you know, all of

that is super, super powerful. But if you want it to be read by

other people, then it's really about how is this going to be

helpful for somebody so often, people come and say, oh, you

know, people always say to me, I really want to write the story

of my life. It's like, nobody cares. Nobody's waking up in the

morning and thinking, Wow, I wonder what page was like in

college. Right? But when you can use your story, to teach them

something about themselves. And you know, Paige in college,

being really resilient and working however many jobs and

starting to write plays and doing all of these things, and,

you know, still being able to fit into her kind of college hot

pan sportswear that she can, that then becomes that then

becomes something that is becomes relatable thing I always

say is a story about you has to be a story about me. And so,

often, the sort of slight twist that I have to make with

somebody, when they come to me with a book idea is just helping

them look at it from a slightly different angle. So nine times

out of 10. The book idea that you think you want to write

isn't the book that you actually want to write, or what isn't the

book you're actually going to write. And so that first step of

thinking about who your end reader is, and writing it For

them, is probably the most important. First thing that you

can do, I will acknowledge that that often brings up a ton of

fear. Because it's one thing to think about, I'm going to write

a book. And that in itself is scary anyway. But you know, I'm

gonna put put these words down the page, once you start to now

visualize another human being reading it, and seeking it out

and paying money for it, and it being something that they've

bought, because they think it's going to help them. That's a

whole other like World of impostor syndrome that you've

just opened a can of. And that I think, is then why so many

people say, I'm going to write a book, get all excited, and then

not do anything about it and sit on 10,000 words on their laptop

for a very, very, very long time, not looking at anyone in

particular.

Mine did sit on my laptop for quite a while, especially

whenever you were telling me that I needed to really clean

with a part of a chapter that I was really struggling with, you

remember Legos in the bedroom,

I will never forget, like Legos in the bedroom is burned into my

brain, because I knew that like we needed to take you to a place

that, again, it's not about so much the facts of what's going

on for you. It's not like, you know, sometimes people talk to

me about like, all they want to write about difficult family

relationships, or you know, but like they're worried about the

other person. And it's almost not so much about the fact it's

about what you went through. How do you help yourself get through

that? What are you thinking? What are you feeling in that

moment? How did you navigate that situation, because that is

the gold dust that someone can learn from because they aren't

going to have the exact same problem as you. But the way that

you approach the solution to that problem will be the thing

that's incredibly relatable. And so that is the moment when you

you're using your story to sort of teach someone something about

their story. And that is incredibly powerful when you're

able to do that.

And I could not agree more. I absolutely agree. And you

actually gave me when you gave me lots of great advice along

the way. But you gave me some advice, honestly, from one mom

to another because I had really, really little whenever I first

started writing, which I want to say was in 2017, I think which

feels like another lifetime ago, certainly another pandemic ago.

And you said to me, you are not going to be you know, it's not

like a Ernest Hemingway moment where I'm gonna get to go off to

a cabin and write beautifully for months at a time or go to

the Ritz Carlton, although I do joke and I talk about hotel

heaven, and how I did book A Night at the Ritz Carlton One

night in Pasadena so that I can get away and experience a little

bit outside of my family and do some writing and some quiet

time. But you said to me go out and live your life. Because if

you are truly talking about a book that is going to reach

those busy moms of littles, they want to know that you wrote

this, in the middle of being a busy mom, with littles, they

want to know that they can relate to you and connect to

you. And they want to feel your struggles, because they are

their struggles. You don't want to be this person who's up on a

pedestal, who's like, you're disorganized, I'm organized, I'm

going to tell you how to get organized in three simple steps.

And then hope your life is better by hope you buy all my

books than give them to all your friends, that was never going to

happen. And the advice you gave me was so great. You said go out

and live your life, you're going to get inspiration from your

life. And you're going to bring that back and your your mind is

going to be spinning, I can't tell you how many times I was at

a cafe and I grabbed a napkin and I jotted things down because

my kid did something that felt like a parallel for why we

needed to get organized in some way. And, and then there was,

you know, this internal struggle that I was having with something

going on in my marriage and parenting, and it would be one

o'clock in the morning and I would jump out of my bed and I

would jump on my laptop and I would write this stuff down and

you encouraged me to take messy action, you encouraged me to

live in the discomfort and write about it. And again, as you

said, bring my faith in because that's just authentically me. I

have want to trust God bracelet as we speak. It's authentically

me and you were like, more Jesus more 90s Hip Hop references

because I know you love that page. And you just kept

encouraging me to live my life as I was writing, not just

disappear somewhere and take this expertise and put it down

on paper and hope that somebody would buy it, because it wasn't

going to happen that way.

I think that's what thank you for that sounds like the sort of

smart thing I would say but but the thing that the thing that I

remember from working with you on that, aside from the fact

that I tell you what else should have been in the acknowledgments

was thanks for all of the Starbucks Wi Fi that you moved

from parking lots while we were on calls.

I really absolutely should have I do think in Facebook Lives I

think Starbucks each day because I would be sitting there because

I couldn't drive to the kids school parking lot because we

didn't have service. And so, yes, I do think on Facebook

Lives, I acknowledge that I was bumming all the Starbucks Wi Fi,

yes. But it was part of the

taking messy action and just kind of getting it done. But I

think I remember, you know, one of the things that like, the one

of the things I love when I'm working with somebody, if I'm

working with them, one to one that I can, like, I can talk to

you. Um, yeah, that's how we also became really good friends,

because you know, I'm talking to you about your life, and things

that you maybe wouldn't occur to put into the book, of being able

to show you but no, this is the thing. And I am, of course,

thinking about you eating your breakfast off the garage floor.

You still remember that story, when I flipped my bagel with

cream cheese upside down, landed on the ground. And I was like,

You know what, I have to get some sort of food into my body,

because I have a long day. And I've got to go to work after I

get off of the other work. So I'm gonna pick this up, I looked

at it, I blew it off, and then I scarfed it down. And I It was

delicious, which was exactly

the point of the book really, in a way because it's like, it's

it's about taking imperfect action. And you know, being

living the hot mess expressing but still taking pride in, you

know, you were taking care of yourself, and you were taking

care of your commitment. And I would be willing to bet that

your garage floor is the kind of garage where you can eat food

off anyway. But that was it was such a part. To me hearing that

story was such a perfect example of your very philosophy that I

was like, that's the thing that needs to go in the book. And so

I think sometimes people are kind of surprised that the story

comes to them in like, it's not this sanitized version, they

think they're going to sort of tell this kind of story. But

it's actually the bits around the edges, where you give

yourself permission to kind of lean into that, as you did. And,

you know, my gratitude to you is that you kind of trusted me to

let me take you on that journey and tease that more out of you.

And you know, joking aside on the Legos in the bedroom of, you

know, take you to a place where it was a bit more vulnerable and

occasion a bit more personal. But knowing that we were always

doing that within, it was uncomfortable, but always but

never to the point where it would be I would, you know,

stressful. And it was always within the importance of the

message of your faith inside it, which then kind of you know,

became the heart of the book. And that and that was the

beating heart of the book of how you when I was talking to you

about it and realizing that, you know, the reason that being

organized and tidy. And all of those things isn't just about

having tidy shelves, it really spoke to your core values as how

you show up as a human how you show up as a mother, as a wife,

as a neighbor, as a Christian, as a teacher as an organizer,

all of those things. And that was what's so powerful. And so

to find those stories, and some of them were very, very funny,

like, in cream cheese off the floor. Yes. And some of them

weren't, you know, some of them like there was a time when when

I can't remember what it was do what is about that lock

themselves in the car.

Do on Christmas Day locked, right?

I'm not like that. Those are kind of those those were sort of

scary, scary moments. Like I still remember these stories

like five years later from having what you know, but

they're all in my head, I think

I have to say, I feel absolutely honored that you are actually

bringing up these stories. And this is a perfect pitch for my

book. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So I

mean, you, you if you I'm sure everyone who was listening to

this has already read this book, because they must know like,

adore you. But this is do you know it was such a joy to me, it

was a joy to work on. Because you're a beautiful writer. And I

know you I always talk about how your first draft is going to be

a mess. And you know, I said to you one day all except yours,

yours wasn't and you were like you clung to that badge of

honor. And your your first draft was very clean. But where we got

you to was just a kind of more expanded version of it. But it

was such, it was such a joy to work on for me because of

watching how it how you flourished. And it was so funny

because we were talking before we came on air and you were

talking about all the speaking that you're doing out and I can

remember I was on holiday in in the on this on the coast in the

UK. And we were just sort of doing too and froze. And we're

deciding whether or not to work with me and all of that kind of

stuff. And I had things vision of where I could see where you

were going to go. It was immediately clear to me where

you were going what you were going to be doing in five years

time

you believed in me before I believed in me and I was always

this down. I was like how does she How could she even know that

was obvious to me. It was absolutely obvious to me. But

that's the thing is that we can't always say that about

ourselves. And I think that's so interesting when you know when

you're talking about pivoting. It's that moment, I think when

someone can see something in you and I could see that's where

you're going. And so it's so funny when you describe what

you're doing now because I'm like, yep, tick, tick, tick. I

called it all. But the pivot comes when you start to see it

for yourself. And I think it'll be really you know, when you

look at what your pivot has now been it's that glimmer of like,

oh, this now fits different inside and maybe actually these

things that you know somebody's that about my I can now get

that. Do we

hear? Hi go

family, you're well versed in how to deal with the sausage dog

barking

exactly. You guys have to know that. Before we started this

podcast recording, you mentioned that the old sausage sausage dog

named Elvis, by the way, which this Memphis girl totally

approves of, might be barking and I said, Oh, this is perfect,

because I have the most amazing editors and you know them, you

know, the people at the podcast boutique, shout out to Liam. And

even I've mentioned to you, I was having headphone issues. And

I've just scrapped the headphones completely, because

they were like ticking and screaming in my ears and like

what is going on? On the Day when I have three podcast

episodes to record? Why is this happening? And I said, You know

what, let's just keep it real. That's how we are here. And by

the way, when we're taking messy action, and we are in the middle

of a pivot, it is going to be a disaster sometimes, and you got

to keep pushing through

podcast boutique have their own residence was a joke. Hello,

Frank. We well versed in dealing with Elvis, who was his thoughts

on tidying up. Anyway, yes, perfectly. And so when you start

when you start to see that inside of yourself, that's I

think that that glimmer of like, oh, maybe this is now when I

need to start looking at doing something slightly different.

And sometimes it takes other people who are around you, like

you say, and I and I'm so glad to hear you say that. Because I

do like to be the person when I'm working with somebody that

it's like, I'm going to believe in you and your ability to do it

before you're ready to do that for yourself.

And you're honestly the gift that keeps on giving. Because

now that I've accomplished the book, and the book is in the

world, the fact that we had that interaction together makes me

feel like I can actually do more I can accomplish other hard

things I can lean into the scariness and the unknown and

the uncertainty. Because I did do this big hard thing. It

turned out really well. You never know if it's going to turn

out well, you got to take a chance. You don't want to be the

person who regrets taking a risk because it might not work out

well, because a lot of times the lesson is actually in all of the

messiness. It's not in the tidiness and that is something

that I learned from you so long ago, not only was I able to put

these thoughts and feelings into a book, and have that serve

others, which really was my goal, I was going through some

tough stuff, and I found the organization. And the way that I

was working through these things, and asking for help, was

a pivotal part of my life. And I knew that that could help other

people because it it really worked for me, I now have been

able to take the lessons that I learned with you in writing a

book and apply them to other parts of my life. And that has

been a gift and I'm so grateful for you.

Well, that's lovely to hear. And I you know, the magic in writing

a book is never it's never just about the book. And you know,

for me book coaching is just, it's just coaching by stealth,

you know, I, I separate book coaching in my mind from regular

coaching and air quotes, because to me, but coaching is working

actually on the text with somebody. And it's actually more

mentorship and teaching and sort of saying, Okay, this is how we

do it, which isn't really what coaching is. But there is an

enormous amount of actual coaching in what I do. Because I

think I think the two important takeaways from that are, it's

sort of to do with your relationship with yourself. And

if you keep saying to yourself, I really want to write a book,

and then never doing it. Because it's difficult and it's hard.

You are quite you are sending that message to yourself that

like I'm like, I'm not I don't have my own back. I don't, I'm

not kind of in integrity with myself, of saying I want to do

this thing and then not doing it. And that's not that's not

something that you should judge yourself for. Because you should

meet yourself with absolute unconditional love, always. But

it's you know, it does start to, you know, when you're able to

sit in the discomfort of doing something, then that's kind of

when some magic happens, because you start to see what you're

capable of. And the thing that I often talk about around

confidence, for example, that nobody starts out writing a

book, thinking, Oh, my God, this is going to be amazing. And I

say nobody, and I'm talking about people who have written 10

books, everyone stops the 11th one going, this is going to be

an absolute dumpster fire. It doesn't matter how many times

you've done it, you're still you're still worried. But you

know, Confidence comes not from thinking, Oh, I've got this, I

can do this. It comes from thinking, I'm going to be okay

if I try and fail. And knowing that you'll be okay if you don't

do it. And the thing is that you can you can't ever find that out

for yourself. If you don't take the steps. If you don't take the

steps and mess it up then you then you never know. And we

think that we're protecting ourselves by saying oh, well, I

don't want to try because then if I fail, but the win coming

from trying, regardless of whether you fail or when you

succeed is so much greater in terms of how we see ourselves.

lives, and our sense of self worth and our self identity. And

that really is for me, like the magic in the book is obviously

brilliant because the people who read it are hugely inspired and

forever changed by it. But it forever changes you as an

individual because it changes your self concept of what you

are capable of. And you know that it's lovely that you say

it's the gift that keeps on giving, because that's how I

kind of see it. Because, you know, writing a book is hard in

some places in times, there's never going to be you're going

to throw your laptop in the seat at some point. But coming out

the other side of it, and dealing with the messiness of

it, and remembering to be really, really proud of yourself

when you've done it because that's the other thing is like

and I'm very, I held my hand up to being really like, Okay,

what's next, and not taking that time to sit in the celebration

of it. Those are brilliant things to just sort of do for

yourself your own kind of personal growth.

A quick reminder, you can now get my book in four different

ways. Head over to Amazon and search up, I've got you

girlfriend, the subtitle is why getting organized and living the

small life is not a solo mission. You can find it there

on ereader. That's through the Kindle app, paperback,

hardcover, and the audiobook. So if you're enjoying this podcast,

I have a feeling you may love the audio book. Again, it's

called I've got you girlfriend, why getting organized and living

the small life is not a solo mission. Thanks so much for

making it a best seller. And back to the show. So hearing you

talking about how book coaching, and another type of coaching is

different, I would actually love for you to talk now about what

you are doing and how you are pivoting in your business. And

what it is that you're working on these days, because you

weren't doing the type of book coaching that you were doing

with me, I wanted people to hear from you who was such a great

source of strength and encouragement for me. I wanted

them to hear how you can actually start writing that

book. And when you're coming up against writer's block getting

out into the world. And for me, by the way, I talk about like

getting 1% better. And I talk about how somedays, the way that

I was able to write the book was simply to just open my laptop,

if I committed to opening my laptop and sitting down in front

of it, I automatically was getting some things written,

sometimes they were big, huge chapters or to other times, it

was just deciding what I wanted to write about and do a little

brainstorming. Either way, it was helpful for me to just shoot

for that 1% better, I didn't get so overwhelmed. So you really I

feel it kept me on track when that writer's block would come

up. So there was a lot of that type of coaching, where we work

together, please now talk about what you're doing these days,

what type of coaching you're doing how you have kind of made

this pivot in your life and why you feel like that could be

relevant in serving your clients at this point.

I will do I'm just going to quickly address if I can the

thing about writer's block, though, because I think it was

really interesting what you what you said there. Because there

are there are sort of two sides to that coin. And like I love

the 1% thing. And it's so so true. It's like It's like going

to bed putting your gym kit out next year, but so in the morning

and just

prepping it the night before. So that ready? Yes.

And so just to say that quickly there at the top there, there

are two ways of tackling that because there are there are

technical practical ways in which when you're planning a

book and you're outlining it and you're getting your all your

material ready, so that when you're when you sit down to a

writing session, you always kind of have something to do so that

that's like technical. When I talk about book coaching, that's

a sort of some sort of practical thing. But the other thing about

writer's block, which I think does speak to more of the kind

of like the life coaching mindset coaching that I also do,

you know, it's it's about understanding that this this

applies to anything that you're procrastinating over really is

to is to understand, to be sit and be kind to yourself about

why rather than beating yourself up about like, oh my god, I'm

procrastinating. And here I am watching Netflix again, or, you

know, on Instagram is to take the time to sit and listen to

yourself as to why you're doing it because you are doing it

because you're telling yourself oh, I don't have any ideas. But

actually, what's underneath that is the kind of fear of what

happens when you keep digging a little bit deeper. And when you

actually allow yourself to be like, yeah, it's gonna be scary.

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm afraid that somebody might say it's going to

be rubbish. And that you you allow yourself to actually teach

through that. That means that you can sort of when you sit

down to do something that you don't really want to do, you can

meet that your brain is going to be like, I don't want to do

this. And you can be like, yes, thanks brain. I know this is

uncomfortable. I know why we're doing this. But we're just

gonna, like, you know, let's just write 10 words and that 1%

thing, but it's sort of understanding that

procrastination that writer's block is serving a purpose. It's

kind of keeping you safe from something. And so when you were

A cat what that is, and it's not going to magically disappear,

but it can start to help you kind of move through it with a

bit more compassion for yourself. Anyway, that was that,

what am I doing now? So my I suppose I've kind of had sort of

bookended pivot if you'll forgive the book related,

and I love the I love the pun, here we go, I had an I had an

original

pivot, which was when I left corporate, I'd spent 20 years

working in the publishing industry. And I left around the

time that my son started school, just to kind of like shake, you

know, how do you manage all of that. And so that was when I

started, not one. But two businesses, I first of all,

started my own coaching practice. And so I also started

our literary agency with two friends of mine and former

colleagues, we'd all work together in publishing. And so

for the last kind of six or seven years, I've run those in

tandem. And we were all kind of doing other things. So I had

this pivot from being in corporate to being not one but

two business running entrepreneur, which like, the

idea that I would be a serial entrepreneur is kind of like

weird and never thought that was gonna happen. And so that's what

I've been doing for the last sort of six or seven years. And

it's been amazing and wonderful and awful, and scary, and

hilarious and profitable, and depressing and old, like just

the Absolute Whole ragtag bag of what being an entrepreneur is

like. So as I said, within the literary agency, or three of us

sort of do do sort of other things as well. One of them, one

of my partners is a CEO in a PR comms agency. And so in 2021, we

actually merged our agency or literary agency within the the

kind of PR agency to kind of give us a little umbrella. And

that allowed us to be able to take on some staff and all those

sorts of things. And so we've been doing it kind of

progressively, it's been growing, the agency has been

growing, you know, as I've been running my business, I also

master certified as a life coach as well. So I've been doing that

for the last two years, you know, just that small thing that

you decided to take on as everything because you get up in

the morning, and it was for long, but worth every minute.

And so literally, literally just in the last few months, we've

kind of collectively, it was sort of a collective decision,

but going in tandem with me, really thinking about, you know,

what do I want to be doing in five or 10 years, you know, we

spoke earlier about like me being able to see your direction

of travel. And for me, that was obvious, but it's hard for us to

be able to do it for ourselves, you know, but I did stop and

think about what kind of an agent do I want to be? Am I Am I

giving the time that I want to be? And am I moving in the

direction of travel? What what do I want to be doing in five or

10 years. And you know, the realization that actually, for

me, the agency is the main thing. And so I've literally

just decided we've collected that I'm going to step in as the

managing director of the agency and run it on a day to day

basis, which is, like, incredibly exciting, slightly

terrifying. So I am now not doing book coaching, I'm

literally just wrapping up with my last few clients, I am always

going to do one to one like mindset, personal life coaching,

I would never like if I was a billionaire, living on an island

in wherever it is a glamorous place to live on an island, I

would still be doing live coaching with people because

it's something I love it more than anything just sitting with

people I tend to work with kind of high, like high achieving

women who are, you know, really like smashing it in one area of

their life. And then I'm like, wait a minute, why isn't every

part of my life like this and the kind of dissonance that

sometimes creates and it's like, let's just sit and look at your

brain because you have a normal human brain. And it's like

throwing up all the roadblocks, which I love doing that. So the

agency is my is my main like, I feel a bit like, oh my god, if I

got a job again,

look at you where

I'm still very, very much like nobody knows where I am. I like

to be mysterious.

Yeah, you're still down, like with your head down. I think

you're gonna be amazing in this role. And to be perfectly

honest, I mean, I can see that this is going to be something

that you thrive in. You're an incredible leader. People trust

you, you give great advice. You give sound thoughtful advice.

And you also are coming from a place of service, which is

always something that's been important to me, I feel like you

come from a place of service, it feels to me like you are a

person who that just lights your soul on fire, and you're meant

to do it.

Yeah. And it's funny because I think like If you'd said that to

me 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago, I would have been

like ruined and I'm like whatever. And and it takes time.

I think this is the thing like you know, sometimes pivots can

feel like the moment the work have a moment like you just have

this split second decision, but often they are the product of

kind of years of things bubbling under and there may be one

catalyst that finally switches it But the rows work to do and I

think I had to do some work around some other stuff to kind

of clear clear away the clutter. Like it's all that's, you know,

your your words are never too far away. But you know, clear

the clutter to see the blessings. I mean, that is

literally actually what I mean she's in heaven now that I'm

literally verbatim quoting her book back to her this is, this

is her idea.

I'm geeking out I'm the I'm trying not to step on your

words, because they're all so good. But I am geeking out that

you are literally pulling lines actual line

is gonna make the marketing cart Isn't it like where I'm

absolutely where, you know, I mentioned that I mentioned that

there was going to be a one minute clip that we put out

there and you're like, really, I just got off my peloton, you're

going to put me on video now. But no, now, so many great

things are happening in this episode, I'm just going to have

you all over like my book page on my website, and just this

said this that I'll do and Jessica said this too, thank you

very much. But here's the thing, you guys, this is a true

testament, when Jessica is in it with you, she is in it all the

way. And then that just makes absolute sense that you would be

doing what you're doing now. And that you would never stop with

the coaching because it's so innately you and you really do

walk alongside the author or whomever you're going to be

helping now you walk alongside them and make them feel like you

are 100% in it with them.

And I you know, I still see everything sort of is still very

kind of woven together. And, you know, I realized that, you know,

what excites me about stepping forward fully into the agency is

I'm still working with authors, but there's also you know,

there's a business now, you know, there's a business to

grow, and it's very, you know, the the agency is, we're still

it's a sort of thing, we've been doing it for five years, and it

still feels like it's still very, very new, it's, I can see

that there's going to be you know, it's one of those things

that sort of takes time to bet in. At the same time, I have no

doubt like I'm about to turn 50. And I have no doubt that in a

decade, what we're doing, within the agency, what we're doing

within publishing is going to be unrecognizable, I think we're

going to see a pace of change, you know, AI is obviously going

to affect things a lot. And that really excites me like the idea

of moving the agency through that period of change. And then

over the next 10 years and beyond like that, that feels

like a really cool, exciting thing to be doing. And to be

bringing authors along with it and to be bringing, you know,

the majority of the books that I work on are nonfiction because,

you know, like books, books, change people's lives. And, you

know, they help us with with so many things, and I'm really

passionate about that. But I have actually also started to

come back into fiction a lot as well, because, you know, it's,

it's just everything so, so that feels very exciting. And, you

know, I still have my I still have my program that I have a

kind of literally I created, you know, over the last six years,

my, my, my my crowning jewel my life's work of the last six

years was creating authority blueprint because I wanted to be

able to bring exactly that, you know, when you're saying, well,

where should people start that step by step thing that walks

them through the process? From the Oh, my goodness, I have just

this first idea. Do I even know if it's right? All the way

through to? Okay, the books came out today. Now what do I do?

Like how do I keep it selling? So it's like a year after the

book has come out? Am I still doing the thing, because I've

worked in the industry for so long. And I have the you know,

the 36,000 view of every single part of the process,

particularly the marketing and publicity part at the end

because that was what I was doing when I was in house. And I

would just wanted to sort of pour all of that in. And you

know, I essentially wrote it as if I were writing a book so that

I could use the thing as as a vehicle for teaching in itself.

So I do know the pain of sitting down and writing 60,000 words

that have to be in some coherent order. Because I have lived it

myself. So

absolutely. And you again, you were there every step of the

way. With me, I remember when you told me the type of word

count that we needed to be looking at. And I think

originally it was something like 50,000 And I was like, I don't

know that I could ever do something like that. And I think

we ended up having to go in and cut mine because

there was never any doubt for me I was like this this is a woman

that will like you get you get 1010 One minute audios from like

on your on your times. I was like, workout will not be a

problem for you.

I had to start a podcast because there were so many things to say

I couldn't just it wasn't just done

so much gold. Like this is why when you know, do you know what?

It's funny actually, because my I suppose I might like my hunch

is like I will see somebody I won't come across somebody

online or on meat. And I'm like, there just needs to be more of

you in the world. And that's my that's my kind of like hunch on

somebody. And you know you're one of those people I met you

and I'm like there just needs to be more page in the world.

Oh my goodness.

Can you know that somebody has got something to say in a way

that really resonates with people and helps people and

that's my Yeah, and when I know like yeah, we need to have more

of you in the world. That's That's my That's how I That's my

spidey sense.

Gosh, thanks for saying that. You know, it looks like now I'm

excited to hear you say you're excited for what's coming with

publishing and that type of industry because I feel like

I've got another book in me, which you told me years ago, he

do not just have one book. And you I know that there is more to

come. And certainly as there is no new podcast. Now, there is a

new book underway. I have been sort of writing I am,

I'm always right.

Well, I mean, if that's not a mic drop moment, let's make sure

we put that into an audio.

i i Actually, I love being but I'm not I'm wrong about lots of

stuff like owning a dog. For one, I was not a dog. But no, I

do have lots of testimonials that just say Jessica is always

right, just do what she tells you. Which is, which is bad,

probably quite bad for my ego. But no, I'm wrong about a lot of

things. But when it comes to other people in their books,

I was gonna say I feel like you are spot on when it comes and

listen Is that not exactly the person that we're reaching

today, or multiple people who were reaching today, you need to

know that you are the person in your field with your expertise,

there needs to be more of you in the world. If you keep feeling

like there is something on your heart that you cannot shut off,

find an amazing mentor, find the people that you need to help you

get to the next level with this. Because if you can't shut your

brain off, and you can't stop thinking about this thing, you

were meant to do it. And you may not know how to do it without

other people. So bringing in experts, I'm so grateful that

you were someone who just I'm gonna say God dropped in my

life. He really did bring you to me at the right time. And I was

so open to the way that you hoaxed the way that you served

the way that you felt and you tapped in to my brain. I love

that you've said that about when you're working with people, you

say, hold on, let's dial it back a second. And let's talk about

how your brain works. Because it's it's giving you clues as to

why maybe one of these areas in your life is not doing well, and

you're soaring in another and for you to bring in the brain

stuff and really call things out that we need to see that maybe

we can't see. I really loved that part of working with you.

It was certainly the kick in the pants that I needed on multiple

occasions. And like I said, You are the gift that keeps on

giving. Because here I am now all these years later talking

about, I think I might have another book in me. And you did

call it and you were right. And let's see how it goes. I'm just

trying to wrangle you back into book coaching just for me. But

I'm, I'm always I'm always at home to mouse's and mcgloin

the mouse ears and the drinking wine out of them.

I have the photo on my wall and I'm looking at the photo right

now you don't

do it. We have to explain what we're talking about right now. I

cannot believe you still have that photo. Oh, she's getting

out to get it. Okay, let me tell you guys, I reached out to

Jessica in you know, I think this was Legos in the bedroom

time when I was writing Legos in the bedroom, that chapter in my

book. And I was really struggling. Oh my goodness. It

just like a life size photo. That's the set. She just pulled

this photo up. It is a giant photo of me in mouse ears. This

is like my daughter's Disney Mickey Mouse ears and a mug that

has wine in it because I reached out to her and I said Jessica, I

am so stuck. I am struggling. A lot of these other chapters came

to me I don't want to say easily but there was a flow to it. And

I am stuck. And she was like listen, you and everybody else.

Okay, anybody who wants to try and write a book, there's going

to be times that this is going to come up and what did you tell

me? Well, some

sometimes it's about working doing the thought work on

impostor syndrome and all that. Sometimes it's about putting

some mouse's on drinking some wine. Yes, out of a mug berries

up there is a prescription for every thing that ails you. And

sometimes it's mouse isn't wine in a mug,

there is something about that physical silly thing that you

told me to do that Jumpstart. It's like it pulled me out of my

head I was so in my head. I'm always in my head. I need to get

out of my head and let the words get down on paper or whatever

that next thing is that I'm working on. Let it happen

naturally. And for me, I feel like God's got a plan if I'm

going to be totally derailed. It's going to be because I

wasn't supposed to do this one thing this way that I thought I

was when I had it all in my head. It's because I was meant

to get pulled out of this. Whether by swear words or loving

swear words at the appropriate time, or mouse ears and drinking

wine out of a mug, but you pull people out of the stuckness and

you get us into the messy action which if your work When with you

oftentimes ends up being something beautiful in the end,

and I could not be more grateful for you being on that journey

with me, it's meant everything in my life has changed for the

better knowing you.

Oh, thank you. Well, this is why I keep this photo, literally

life sized photo of you on my wall next to my desk, because

that's exactly what I need to remind myself of.

It's so incredibly good. I mean, I take a photo of it's

just the most beautiful photo of you as well, you just look so

cute. Well, which

is hilarious, because I was like, how do I make this a black

and white photo to hide the bags under my eyes from not sleeping,

because I want to get this book written. But I'm also a mom. And

I'm also teaching second grade at the time, and also doing all

of these things. And I was like, we're going to switch it to

black and white and Austin, the photo over to her, me and Kelsey

are striking wine from

that that's such a good point. Because like so many people are

like, I haven't got time to write a book. And it's like, no,

you haven't got a compelling enough reason to make the time.

And the time thing is this is normally when I stopped

swearing, the time thing is not a real reason. The time thing is

fear. And it's completely normal. But it's just own that.

Because if you've been saying for a really long time, I want

to write a book you like stop saying if you haven't, because

otherwise, just you're not going to, but it's never gonna,

there's never going to be enough time, there's never going to be,

you're never going to suddenly have this like six month window

open up in your calendar where you think, Oh, I can go in and

have a cabin in the woods. Now, you do it messing the way you do

it in a Starbucks parking lot mooching off their Wi Fi.

Absolutely. And you're better. Yeah, that's how it gets

written. Absolutely, oh, my goodness, I could go on and on

for hours with you. I do believe that we have driven this point

home, which is that if you've got something in your heart

constantly that you're thinking about, and you feel like writing

a book is your next step, lean into it, find somebody who can

help you with a tell me.

I will loop back to where we started, which is this idea that

you only need to be a few steps ahead. You don't need to be the

expert, you don't need to have all the answers. You don't need

to have finished your own story. You don't need to be at the end

of your journey. You just need to be a few steps ahead from the

people that you're helping and this book is you reaching your

hand back to help them do something a bit easier, a bit

quicker than knew how to do and they learn from what you learn

and that and that's all you know, the the imposter syndrome

that kicks in HVAC, but who am I to write this book? Who am I to

tell the story? Who are you not to? We need your story and we

need your voice and we need your unique way. You know, just like

I was I was the messenger that you needed with all my swearing

and what have you. You know You are the messenger that someone

out there needs and they won't ever get. They won't ever get

that if you don't sit in the discomfort and just try and just

see where it will take you um believe in yourself and have

your own.

Absolutely tell everyone where they can find you if they want

to follow along with what you're doing reach out to you have some

help from you.

The best place is Instagram Jessica Killingly at Instagram,

you can see what Elvis looks like. And he's a regular guest

star on my Instagram stories. I have my own Paul COVID Just call

the authority show which is pathetic, shall we say we've we

haven't had any episodes for a while there are some episodes

planning but I'm trying to get myself like into the groove of

my new job role and then we'll see where we go but I'm gonna

carry on doing it because I'm gonna carry on talking about

books and publishing. And I do have the the authority blueprint

so if you want like a self study course that's just going to take

you from nuts to soup. Soup to nuts, sorry.

That's okay. We could just flip flop it, you can call it

whatever you want. It's

put it this way. It's a middle that's classier than bagels

scraped off the floor. The most important thing to take away and

I'm transparent and I just want to let you know how I eat my

bagel. It is off the garage.

Try to be bougie like this is why I'm bringing this up because

she is incredibly bougie and incredibly chic. And she's

always drinking beautiful smoothies and having expertly

diced veggies and things like that. So this is where I like to

you know, keeping your real.

Thank you for keeping me real. Sometimes these days it's more

of like tequila when I'm like gripping but how about tequila

in a mug these days?

That's yeah, that's for your later editing stage. That's when

that's that's when things are

but the good news is that my Isabelle is a whiz in the

kitchen now and so she's making those beautiful smoothie so I

get to have

those and I thought I thought you're saying she was doing the

Kenya polls so

No, not quite yet. Although she will be fun when happy hours are

a possibility but no, no, not for years for a decade. And

then you can and then she can learn you can teach her

everything you know. Oh my

gosh. Yes, Luke suddenly flashbacks to college. Okay,

moving on. I feel like this is a good place to go. Killingly,

I always take things We

do we'll get we'll get off of this call and we'll continue

laughing about inappropriate things. Okay, but truly check

Jessica out on her podcast, I still go back and listen to it,

I find so much value in it. And I know that I'm going to be

circling back to a lot of your teachings as I am working on

book too. So thank you, again.

Make sure you have the authority blueprint because that's going

to be the thing that walked through. But listen,

congratulations to you. Congratulations, because the

book has been out for a super long time. But you know, you did

it. We did it. You did it. You got it. You got it done. You got

it out there. You got it selling beautifully. You've you've done

and not just the book, all the other things podcast brilliantly

successful podcast speaking, all of those things, you made them

all happen. And I'm incredibly proud and incredibly honored to

have been a little part on the journey and helping it happen.

Thank you so much. I'm very grateful as well. All right, you

guys check out all of the show notes. The links that I'm going

to have in there and find yourself a Jessica Killingly

because she's the best. Thank you so much, my friend for being

on here. And I will talk to you very soon. Bye. Bye. Thanks for

listening to another episode of the time to pivot podcast. If it

was helpful for you. I'd love for you to head over to Apple

podcast. Hit that fifth star and write a review. One with me to

speak at your next event or work with me one on one to get

clarity around your gifts, how to serve others and go from

stuck and stressed to focused and fulfilled. Reach out on the

contact page at everything with style.com and connect with me on

social at everything with style mom. Thanks again for listening

and sharing the podcast and mom boss remember this. Your gifts

are meant to be shared. Don't keep them to yourself and stay

in your comfort zone. This is your time to pivot