Sheila Tarushuk is the co founder and retail business consultant at Petal Retail Advisors.

Today we're going to hear all about what it takes to open up a retail space, otherwise known as a salon or barbershop or booth rental shop.

How do you know when you're ready, when it comes to the money, to the business plan, to the concepts, et cetera.

Welcome back to the Hairdresser Strong show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Sheila Torushuk.

How are you doing today, Sheila?

I'm great.

I'm so glad to be here with you today.

I'm very happy to have you.

So we shout out to Darius for making this introduction happen.

And little did I know that you all are orbits cross with Faith Broderick.

She's, she's formerly at the Georgetown Bid and she sits on the economic vitality committee for Georgetown Main street with me.

And unfortunately we were not able to have your partner, Abby.

So would you give us a little bit of like a quick brief explanation of a little bit about like what is Petal Retail Advisors and what is your like background in the retail space that helps you help other people open up businesses like salons?

Absolutely.

Abby was sad she couldn't be here today, but we kind of share a brain or a lot of things.

So you'll, you'll get Abby through me in some way.

So.

So Abby and I founded Petal Regional advisors back in 2020 because we had both seen through years in our respective careers that the commercial real estate ecosystem is not made for small independent mom and pop individual entrepreneurs.

It's made for big businesses with in house real estate teams where professional real estate people are dealing with professional real estate people all day long.

And the rest of us are just trying to open our salon, open our bakery, whatever it is.

And we have no choice but to engage in this ecosystem to get a space.

But it is at best unfriendly and you can leave a lot of money on the table and at worst it can be very, very financially consequential in not a good way.

So my background is as a retailer.

I grew up in a retailing family.

I went to business school and had my own restaurant.

This was many, many years ago.

So I learned the hard way from having signed a commercial lease just before the 2008 recession.

We signed our lease in May 2008 and we got our building permits the day Lehman Brothers collapsed.

So we really just spent four years creating this wonderful business that was really popular with the community.

It was growing.

We were doing over a million dollars in our last year.

But because of our pre recession lease, we were always kind of behind the eight ball and ultimately our landlord, who was this big multinational corporation that was, decisions were made out of Australia.

We, we were nothing more than a line on a spreadsheet.

So it was super difficult and I learned a lot the really hard way.

So then when I was ready to just have somebody else pay me, I went to work for a specialty coffee company that was growing their retail footprint.

So I came in to grow to go from one and a half to two and a half locations.

And over my seven years we expanded to seven locations.

And so my job was doing all of the business planning for the expansions, the site selection, the LOI negotiation, the lease negotiation, the contractor management, the build out, setting everything up for operation.

So by doing it over and over and over again and having the opportunity to meet Abby on a field, she was pitching us because Abby worked for cbre, which is a big international retail, a real estate brokerage, commercial brokerage.

She was always been a retail broker.

Abby and I met, she was pitching us on a space we didn't take.

But she saw in her experience we were looking at the same thing, which is that it is so hard to get to assigned lease even when you have done it many times before, even if you've got a professional team in house.

So how on earth is any normal person supposed to just do this to get their business open?

When I was growing the spaces for the coffee company, I remember thinking to myself, I am using my entire brain every day, opening this location or doing whatever it was and this is my full time job and someone else is paying me to do this.

I don't know how I did it back the first time, but this is not reasonable for a normal person to be able to manage all of this alone without really having the support that, that you need through the process.

So that's a long way of saying that after my 20 plus years in retail and Abby's, you know, 15 years in retail real estate, we were looking at the same exact problem.

And we knew that there had to be a solution because it's.

We just thought it was wrong that a system that is required for all of us who are just trying to open our business and to serve our community or to do our craft, that from the get go we're at such an unfair disadvantage when it comes to the most financially significant decision you're going to make in your business.

And usually the first one you have to make.

So we just.

We're committed to creating better outcomes.

We create a petal, and that's what we do.

So.

So that was great.

Thank you for that.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna say it.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna sum it up how.

What I hear in your.

In your.

In your explanation is that you have started a retail.

Small business, retail space.

It was a restaurant, but you went through all of the steps that a person who's listening, who wants to open up a salon or shop going to have to go through.

You went through all this, the full.

From.

From.

From nothing to building up the business.

And then you went.

And then you went to another company and you helped them expand their business through multiple locations.

And so you're bringing your.

Your expertise, it sounds like, is in helping people make sure that they're doing everything that they need to do to maximize their opportunity of opening up their business and not setting themselves up for failure by entering into this space, this unknown space to the majority of us.

Like, I know that I've looked into this a number of times.

I've been through a process a number of times with builders and, you know, the.

The steps.

Like, if I.

If they hadn't approached me and I had approached them, I think that my vibe would have been completely different because they approached me and I was like, well, and I did it once with somebody and once with.

By myself.

And it was always like, well, this is how much money I got.

Are you gonna.

Are you gonna do it for that much money?

So, like.

But I can see how, like, if I wanted the space, how, like, I'd be open to, like, negotiation.

And they.

There was a lot of power.

Power plays happening, and I felt like I was being treated like I was somebody who was not sophisticated, and I felt like I was going to be taken advantage of.

And ultimately, you know, they.

And they change things so many times when we would talk to them, like, every time we talked, they were just kind of pushing and pushing a little more.

Almost like they knew exactly what they were doing.

But, like, so.

Like that.

So.

But that's just, like, one piece of it.

There's also, like, the business plan.

There's also what is the space gonna look like?

You know, how.

How deep do you do you get with people in terms of, like, what.

What exactly type of stuff that you all help people with?

Because, like, what I'm.

What I'm trying to get is out of this conversation for the audience is what do people need to have?

So maybe that's the better question, like, what is it that a person who's listening, who wants to open up a salon or shop, what do they need to have before they open it up and what is that process like?

Yeah, I say to talk about that because it's basically the same for everybody.

No matter what business that you are, how small or large your business is, it's the same, it's the same dance steps to get there.

If I can, I want to address what you were saying before.

Like that feeling that you had of feeling like this feels bad.

Am I being taken advantage of?

Like, are they.

They keep changing it, they keep asking for more.

That's a really common experience, some version of that.

And I, I think it's important to know that that experience is very common and it's it like brokers are not bad.

Like, and I've met a lot of brokers and we have a lot of dealings with brokers, especially ones in the DMV and like they're pretty, they're good people.

But the way that the system is set up of old school brokerage, they work on an entirely commission based system.

Our, the way we do things at PEDAL is different.

But when you work on an entirely commission based system, that means that you only want to engage with business owners who are likely to transact.

So look like they've got what it takes to get to assigned lease because, and we can go into this in a little bit, but the process to assigned lease, it is like at its fastest where everything is falling into place perfectly, which never really happens at fastest it's six months to assigned lease, not to opening.

So it is a slow process and it takes a tremendous amount of investment on both sides to get to assigned lease.

So if a broker or a landlord sizes you up and thinks that like you might not get there, they might start to manage how much effort they're putting into it.

Right?

Because it's like they, that's their business is saying like where do I put my effort so that I can pay my mortgage?

So it's normal to feel like, you know, to feel like you're being treated like you're ignorant because when it comes to negotiating a deal, you kind of are.

And that's okay because like you are not ignorant at your craft, you are not ignorant at what you're doing.

But no one would ever have any reason to to be knowledgeable in the process of retail real estate unless you've had to do it multiple times.

So all that to say what we do is we're like that, that is good, that is normal.

We expect you to not know anything about anything or to know some things.

And we help prepare you so that you are knowledgeable and you are ready to engage and you do have that experience because there's enough that's really stressful about the whole process to getting open.

And there are a whole lot of feelings.

But there are some things that are like, brokers are not usually trying to trick you.

They're trying to get paid, they're trying to get to a deal.

And so they want to make a deal with you, they want to say yes to you, but you have to know how also to get to yes within their system.

So getting to the sign the lease, like getting to an ultimate yes on the right space is.

It's really like finding a marriage between a landlord's operational and financial needs for their property and your financial and operational needs as the business owner.

Like, like, can we have a match here?

Because everybody's situation is different and what you need as a business owner and what they need as a business owner don't always align.

And that's fine.

That's why most deals don't happen.

But the ones that do are because we were able to figure out how we can make that work.

That's the negotiation, right?

So it's like we're not in like a power standoff, we're in a can we figure out how to make your needs and my needs align?

And the only way to feel empowered in that process is to know exactly what you need so that you can ask for it clearly.

And if they say yes, great, you're setting yourself up for success.

And if they say no, you can say, okay, thanks, bye, moving on.

So it's, you don't, you don't have to feel any kind of way about it.

It's just like, this is what I need.

So what we do and what someone really needs fundamentally is what we call being transaction ready.

So the transaction really begins at the time that you would start looking at spaces.

So that is when you would work with your broker, your tenant rep broker, the person who's representing you because someone's definitely representing the landlord making sure that that space is leased.

If you call a four lease sign, which you shouldn't do, that's, it's not asking you to call, it's asking your broker to call.

So don't call those signs the person, because the person who is the number listed is the landlord's broker.

Landlord's brokers are like, like drug sniffing dogs.

They can tell within three sentences if you have done this before, if you're likely to transact.

And the first telltale sign that you're not ready to transact is if you are calling as the business owner.

Because when you're prepared to engage in the system, your broker is calling for you.

Does that.

You know, I've interviewed a number of salon owners who they worked with like a person like, but they're in, like, a smaller town.

You know, they're not in a big city.

They're not working with these, like, big properties and.

Or these big property companies.

So is there any difference, differentiation between like, type of properties or, like, geographic locations?

That's a great question.

No, because if there's only.

If there's only one broker, it's the landlord's broker, and the landlord's broker is representing the interest of the landlord, not you.

There's no requirement legally that you have representation, and there's no, there's no law that says you can't have representation.

So it is in your best interest to be represented in the transaction, because otherwise there's no one else looking out for you.

Also, they.

I, you know, on this note of having somebody to look at the, at like terms, even when you're just early in the, in the conversation, you're not even like, signing anything.

Like, I know that there's all these different terminology and there's all the, these different ways that they have of charging you for different things.

And so, like, I just kind of was like, I'm not gonna have this conversation with you.

I'm.

Here's the cash out of my pocket on a monthly basis to cover everything.

So I don't want to have this conversation about triple net and square footage.

And it's like, no, no, no, no.

Cash in, cash out.

Of course I was able to talk to them like that because they approached me and it wasn't like I was approaching them.

I'm sure that they would be like, I don't even want to deal with this guy.

Well, I would say that your situation and your good experience is wonderfully unusual.

That is, I'm glad.

I'm thrilled that that's how that worked out.

That is not usually how it works out for lots of reasons.

And that's sort of what I'll get back to.

But it doesn't matter what area you're in, because when we're talking about retail spaces, retail spaces are like a sub part of commercial real estate.

Commercial real estate or any.

It's real property that is held for the purpose of making money.

So like someone owns that property to make money either through rents, through appreciation of the asset, both through the sale.

So they're holding it to make money.

When you have a lease, you have a legal right to that space.

So a leasehold right is something that is really important because it has its own legal designation, which means that you have rights.

Like, yes, you have obligations, but also you are protected whatever happens with that property or that property owner.

So that's incredibly important when you're running a business that you've got protection for yourself in that transaction.

So, you know, versus like if you just have.

I don't want to go to the front of this rabbit hole, but like an agreement, a license agreement to operate in the space, you do not have those same rights.

So at least affords you secure rights to do your business in that space for a period of time.

So that is a lease.

That's a lease in a teeny tiny town of one stoplight.

That's a lease in D.C. in Manhattan.

All leases end up in court if things don't work out.

So it doesn't matter if it doesn't seem like a big deal.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't seem like a lot of money.

You are legally obligating yourself to both terms and money over a long period of time.

Excuse me.

And you don't really know what's going to happen.

No one can predict the future.

And commercial properties change hands.

Sorry, I just, because, just because I'm.

I'm paying attention to the time, I want to make sure we get to something.

But before, just to move on, like, basically what I'm hearing is if you're going to sign a lease, you better have representation.

Don't go signing a lease without representation.

So when you talked about transaction ready, like for someone out there, like, could you kind of like, as we kind of in, kind of come up on the end of this, could you like go through some sort of like checklist of things that you want to make sure that you have so people can kind of walk away from this conversation understanding not only what we've explained, what you've explained so far and what we've talked about, but also like, what are these material, like things that they need to have?

Yeah, I'm going to start sort of at the end, at the finish line, and then work backwards in order to be transaction ready.

Which means like you are ready for a broker to start showing these faces, you need to have three things.

You need to have a working knowledge of how commercial real estate, how this process is going to go over the next 6, 10, 12 months.

You have to understand how that's going to work.

You have to be familiar with the terminology.

You need to be familiar with the flow.

So you really need to know what's about to happen.

You have to have a business plan, a comprehensive, well thought out, well planned out business plan, which is not something that you can have chat do for you.

It's not something that you can even write in a weekend.

It takes a lot of thought and effort.

And so you have to have a really comprehensive business plan with financial projections as well, and you have to have all your money.

So part of the business planning process is figuring out how much can my business afford in rent each month and how much can I afford to spend getting this place up and running.

That second question of how much I can spend to get up and running, that takes some research, it takes some effort, and it is pretty much never, don't be scared.

It's pretty much never less than like $200,000.

And that's not because like, oh, no, Sheila, like, I'm not, I'm just, I'm not going to build out anything.

I'm not going to do it.

Like, I'm talking about a space that's like basically turnkey.

So there are just a lot of things that you've got to pay for along the way.

Things that you would never think about unless you really had to.

So give us some examples.

Sure.

Like exterior signage.

You see signage that lights up on the outside.

Those are like $12,000.

What?

I know.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, exactly.

At the time of lease signing, you're paying a security deposit and sometimes prepaid rent.

So you're not like you are paying like rent times, at least free.

Like in the beginning, you have to pay for a lawyer.

You need to pay for pre opening marketing.

You need to buy all the supplies, you need to pay for utilities while the space is being built out.

There's just our capital budget.

Have like 47 line items.

It's a lot of stuff.

So you have to have the money and you don't have to have like a bag of money, but you have to have what, 99% assurance that like when it's time to say, now I need the money because I've got to write a check for it, that it's going to be there for you.

So.

And it takes a while to get to that place when these things are ready.

Because backing up what has to happen even before you've got those sort of three things in your bag, right?

Your knowledge, your business plan, and your money.

The business planning process is something that does and should take a little while.

Like, how long do you think just throw it out?

I think it.

I think reasonably three, four months, if you're really focused on it.

Because there's things that you have to think about and write about, but there's a lot of processing that you have to do, right?

It's like.

It's like you have an idea.

Everyone has an idea of, like, what my vision is, what I want to do.

But in the business plan, we are not only articulating exactly what that is clearly and in a compelling way so that, like, some old guy who works in an office can understand it, right?

So you have to explain the business.

You have to explain exactly what you need in this space.

How many bowls do you need?

What kind of electrical requirements do you need?

What kind of extra plumbing?

Or do you need extra rooms?

Do you need private rooms?

Do you need places where you can have events?

Do you need to be able to have a liquor license because you want to be.

You know, all of these questions and everything that needs to go into the space goes is planned in there as well.

So we need to know a lot about the space itself and what it's going to look like.

What are the vibes going to look like?

Like, what's the overall esthetic on the fun side and on, like, the more boring side?

Like, how much square footage do I need for.

Like, to mix color for enough people who would be doing it at the same time with this many bowls?

And if I have this many bulls, how many power outlets do I need?

And if I have this many people operating electrical equipment at the same time, do I need extra electric?

So, like, these are sort of things that we're thinking about in the planning.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

So we're talking about the space itself, physically.

We are talking about who's on your team, right?

There's you, but also who.

Who's going to be doing your books and accounting?

What lawyer is going to be helping you with the lease?

Who's your architect or your designer?

Who are your advisors?

Right?

So who.

Who's going to help you do this?

And then, like, what are you about to enter?

What is the market you're about to enter?

What does the hairstyling market in D.C. look like now?

What trends are on the rise?

What is changing?

What is happening nationally that is going to be, like, in the environment into which I'm walking?

Into who are all my competitors and how am I going to set myself off separately.

This is all stuff that.

These are all things that you don't just need to know or feel good about.

These are things that you need to be able to put on paper and commune and be led out, like, readable to and consumable.

So it's not like you can just, like, scratch your ideas down on a piece of paper.

You actually have to put it together in a way that's exactly right.

Like the bank, whatever.

Yeah.

And just to rattle off the other ones, how are you going to marketing daily operations, where the money's coming from?

What's your growth plan?

So there are all these things, and it's like you need them because they're the answers to the test for everybody else.

But all of these things that you have to think through, like, they're going.

You're going to have to encounter that.

Right.

You will have to use electric at the same time.

So it's like, are we gonna be able to do what we want to do or not?

Like, we have to know how big the space is going to be or we're going to have big problems.

We have to know who our competitors are and how we're going to differentiate ourselves or we're going to have problems.

So it's like you need and want to know all the answers so that you can be successful.

But the business planning process is really the only time that, like, you would ever do that is go through this stuff.

So it's in your best interest to just pump the brakes and say, I need to spend a little time on the thought process.

Because especially knowing that, like, when I'm going to actually start looking for spaces, I've still got probably a year ahead of me that I can just, like, chill out for a second and spend the right time planning.

Because commercial leases are five, ten years long, and the goal is that you're there longer than that.

Right.

Or that you're selling it to somebody there longer than that.

So, like, we say that on the continuum of serious life events, the decision to sign a commercial lease is in between getting married and having a baby.

It is literally harder to get out of a commercial lease than it is to get out of most marriages.

Because you can't just like, you want to be married tomorrow.

Right.

You know what steps that you would take.

You can't decide that your business isn't working so you want to be done.

Or like, you won the lottery and you want to move to Paris, like, whatever it Is like, you are committed.

Do you, do you have any.

You know, it's just like, as we.

We're still in the wrap here, but like, I'm so curious to know, like, have you had anybody come to you that was like, in like a.

A deep, like, issue, like a horror story?

Like, kind of like, you know, kind of like scare us, scare us straight here.

Kind of scare us into.

Into not wanting to, like, take this road by ourselves.

Yeah.

Or at least do it, not do it unprepared.

Yeah.

I mean, the truth is, is that it's.

It's really sad.

Like, it's really, really sad because the result is always.

It's what happens when things are.

When you've got big problems that come from the.

At least should provide you maximum security, maximum flexibility.

Right.

And if you are signing something that you didn't know how to figure out if you could afford it because you didn't do projections or you didn't know that you were going to have to pay rent before you open for business because you didn't have a broker help you figure out what your timeline needed to be so that your rent commencement date didn't overlap?

Like, there's a lot of stuff that you.

Is not obvious of how you protect yourself.

So the horror stories look like periods of time when the business owner is stressed, increasingly stressed.

Right.

Because it's like if you don't have enough money coming in, but you still have to pay for bills, so first you become financially stressed, and when you become really financially stressed, then you also get sick and it really hurts your relationships and you end up losing whatever it is you put in and you're obligated to whatever it is you've committed.

Which means that, like, if you cannot honor what you've committed to financially, then that can lead to personal bankruptcy, which is not the worst thing in the world.

But, like, no one does it because they want to.

Like, it is, you know, and when it affects money, it affects.

People get divorced.

Like, this is just the reality is that when, like, things fall apart, they fall apart big.

And so.

And it can come from just things that, like, you, like, you don't know what you don't know.

Right.

There are always going to be things in business ownership that we wouldn't have known.

We planned as well as we could.

We wouldn't have known until it happened.

But in retail, real estate, like in what we're talking about, there is a lot that can be known, but you wouldn't know it if you'd never done it.

Many times before.

So it's like you want to be guided so that you can just do what you want to do, which is to make a successful business.

Like, if I said, hey, can I have a hundred thousand dollars and I'm gonna burn it over here in this pile and then make you really sad for the next few years and, like, would you do that?

No.

So, but like, you, there are so many consequential decisions that you're making.

And it's not because you're not capable or not smart at all.

It's just because, like, it's specific.

Like, like, don't ask me to cut anybody's hair down.

I've gotten my haircut I don't even know how many times.

But I couldn't do it because I don't have the training to do it.

I don't have the knowledge.

Like, I mean, there are lots of things like that.

So just because it seems like I just call the number and they're going to pick it up, and I start looking at the space.

Even though it's not obvious that you're not prepared to enter this system, you're not prepared to enter the system.

Right.

Like, I can't go into a hospital and say, like, I'm here to operate.

They'd be like, no, you're not.

But it's not like that.

Can you, like, one last thing I want you to tell us about before you tell us about where people can find you if they want to reach out to you and hear more.

And also I want you to tell them a little bit about the dream space thing that we were talking about beforehand.

But the one thing that I want you to tell us about, and of course now I'm forgetting on the spot, so I'll ask you if I remember.

So why don't you tell us where people can find you?

Also tell them a little bit about the dream space, because I think there might be some people on this listening to this or watching this that might be interested in hearing more about that.

Yep.

Okay, so petal retail.com, you know, we're at, you know, pedal reach out to all of our handles.

We got a YouTube channel with all sorts of videos about all the terminology that you were talking about and all sorts of things.

We've got a.

A blog and a newsletter that is pretty entertaining, we think, and it's pretty educational.

So you can find that on our website and sign up for that.

The thing that is, that comes before even the business plan is to know that you're ready to do this.

Like, you don't really know until you know and you've answered all the questions.

So my best advice is to say, like, if you think you want to open a salon or go to, to get a brick and mortar space, like, you can say yes to yourself.

You just say yes and just keep getting more information because, like, you don't need to tell anybody in your life.

You don't need to tell anybody that you're thinking of it.

Like, you don't need to ask anybody's opinion.

But you think, like, if you have this idea, then you say, I'm going to get some more information.

I'm going to find out how this process is going to work.

All right, I'm going to get some more information.

I'm going to try to calculate how many bowls I would need and how much revenue would come in from, from that.

Okay, now I'm going to try to calculate, like, you can do so much work on your own and all you're doing is just trying to get more information.

Because truly, like, you don't have to commit until you sign that lease.

So all along you're gathering information to see, like, is this going to work for me?

So don't count yourself out.

Like, don't say, like, should I or should or not, should I?

Like, just say yes.

Say yes to yourself.

Keep getting information and then you'll know, like, is it yes for me right now or is it maybe yes for me in a couple years?

Is it yes with a partner?

Like, what does this, Is it yes in a different city?

Like, what does this look like?

So don't try to answer the question yes or no.

Just say yes until you're just like, no, I want to do that.

Dream Space is our accelerator.

It is our tried and true program where we, where people come in who have never signed a solo long term lease before.

Which means, like, if you have been in a salon suite, it's for you.

If you have only ever been an employee at another salon, it's for you.

If you're like, if you've never signed a long term lease alone before in a space that's just yours, and if you don't have anything operating right now, Dream Space is for you.

We do all the things that we talked about, being prepared.

We teach you what this is going to look like and the terminology and to be prepared for the process and how you need to do that.

We work hand in hand to make your business plan with you.

You're going to do it guided by us and we're going to be talking about things that you probably have not thought about because, like, why would you ever want to think about, you know, H Vac loads in your life?

So we're going to talk about all that kind of stuff.

And then also at the end of Dreamspace, we connect you with our financing partner, Mid Atlantic Small Business Finance, where she's basically a loan matchmaker.

So what we do is use Mid Atlantic to help find a lender to make this happen for you because it does take a lot of money.

And all along we're talking about, you know, what you're going to need on your end to make that happen.

But like, at the end of Dream Space, you can have the knowledge, the business plan and the money and then we can take you out to go look for spaces.

Nice.

Awesome.

I remember the thing that I wanted you to tell them.

I and I know we're, we only got a few more minutes.

Can you just real quick tell people what a personal guarantee is inside of a lease?

Yes.

A personal guarantee is your promise to pay.

So when you go to buy a car, you are, and you're like financing it, you are basically signing a personal guarantee.

You're saying, I'm going to make these car payments whether or not I have my job or if I lose my job.

Right.

If you buy a house, you're saying, I'm going to make these mortgage payments whether or not I lose my job or I can't pay it, whatever.

I'm obligating myself to it.

That same thing happens when you're talking about a commercial lease.

When your business signs a lease, it's your business entity that is signing.

Your business entity is, has no assets, has no credit history.

Right.

So it's like, we call it like baby with a credit card.

So you can get, you could get a credit card for a baby, but like, the parent has to be like, I'm the one who's paying the bill.

So your business is the baby and you're the parent who has to pay the bill.

So what that's saying is that if this business struggles or can't make it out or, you know, doesn't isn't able to pay its bills or honor the terms of the lease.

I am, I'm taking responsibility.

You can't walk away from it.

No, no.

And just for frame of reference, like when I was working for the coffee company, it was not until we were negotiating, I think like maybe location 5 and the company already had, it was like millions of dollars of wholesale business as well.

And the company had been around for 15 years.

That's the level you have to get to, to where you can have a corporate guarantee.

Right.

That's where the business has enough to honor it otherwise.

So basically the llc, because I think there's a, there's a lot of people who think oh, I'm protected because I have an LLC or I'm incorporated and so I'm not on the hook, I can just walk away.

But no land, no lease.

I mean I don't know if zero.

But like how I understand and you can correct me if I'm wrong there people aren't going to let you sign a lease as a business.

And I think I might probably just saying what you just said, you will not be allowed to sign a lease as a business.

You will have to sign it as a person, which means they can come after you for the full, full term of the lease.

Yeah.

Tell us you will sign it as a business.

Okay.

There's basically an attachment and exhibit in the lease that is the guarantee.

You are going to guarantee it personally.

So, so, but effectively it means the same.

Now landlords are always going to ask for what we call a full guarantee.

Right.

They're going to put up, they're going to say I want you to guarantee the whole thing.

A good broker is going to help you negotiate a limited guarantee.

Right.

So we're going to say like okay, but we're going to limit it to like you know, two years.

Like if I got a 10 year lease, it's two years maximum.

And this is a whole topic for another day.

Yeah, yeah, a lot there.

But the point is like, like there is, yes.

Like you are protected legally.

Right.

If someone slips and falls, they can't sue you personally in your business but you are obligated personally to the financial and legal obligations that you're making in your lease.

So that really is to say that because these are so long term and because like you can't hi.

Really from them, it's in your best interest to make sure that you are prepared to sign.

And like on top of that, it's the confidence that is the most important thing that we see because every single one of our clients almost to.

Yeah, every single one.

When we get to the point where they are about to sign this 50 page lease where they've been, we've been working on it for a year or more, everybody is over it, Everybody is over it.

All we want to do is to get open.

There is always like a crisis of confidence, right.

There's always like, is the universe trying to tell me that this is a bad idea?

I don't know.

Am I a little bit scared?

And it's normal and natural to have that before you.

You know, like, cold feet before a wedding or something.

It's normal to feel that way.

But it's the business plan that we go back to and we say, all right, let's.

Let's flash all the numbers by a third.

Let's see what it looks like.

And then we're like, okay, okay.

It's okay.

Like, my assumptions are right.

My math is right.

The need in the market is still there.

I'm so capable, and it gives you the confidence as best as you can possibly have that this is a smart decision and that it's.

It's worth the risk.

And, like, that.

That's invaluable.

That's a great.

That's a great place to wrap it up.

Thank you so much for taking time.

I.

And I appreciate you being flexible to run over a little bit.

And.

And I look forward to having.

I feel like there's so many more conversations.

I have questions that I wrote down that I was like, I know we can't ask this, so I'm sure we should definitely do this again, but until next time, thank you so much, and I'll talk to you later.

Great.

And I'll stop recording.