[00:00:00] Scott W. Luton: Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Karin Bursa with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today's live stream. Hey, Karin, how you doing?

[00:00:24] Karin Bursa: I am doing great, Scott, how are you today?

[00:00:27] Scott W. Luton: We're doing fantastic. So great to co-host another great session and this is gonna be a wonderful one, folks, great show in the queue.

[00:00:35] Scott W. Luton: We're gonna be diving into a research report that offers actionable insights from more than. 3,500 supply chain professionals. It is the 2025 ASCM supply chain, salary and career report. And I think our audience, Karin, is gonna really appreciate the opportunity to put their finger on the pulse of supply chain compensation benefits and really the overall professional landscape.

[00:00:59] Scott W. Luton: And to do help us do all that, we've gotten another than Abe Eshkenazi with the Association for Supply Chain Management. A-K-A-A-S-C-M joining us as we dive in big show hunkering.

[00:01:11] Karin Bursa: Absolutely a really important topic, and I think it gives us some valuable data points that can back up what we're experiencing in the marketplace. Scott, I also think it reinforces one thing that I believe wholeheartedly, and that is it's a great time to be in supply chain.

[00:01:29] Scott W. Luton: That is Karin Bursa official tagline. We're gonna do t-shirts. We got billboards. 'cause it is a great time to be in global supply chain. And you know what? The data supports it, so stay tuned.

[00:01:39] Scott W. Luton: Karin, are you ready to get started?

[00:01:42] Karin Bursa: I am ready. Let's go.

[00:01:44] Scott W. Luton: You are always ready my friend. I wanna welcome in. Our very special guest here today, Abe Eshkenazi, chief Executive Officer with ASCM. Hey. Hey Abe. How you doing today?

[00:01:55] Abe Eshkenazi: Wonderful, Scott, a pleasure to be with you and Karin today.

[00:01:58] Scott W. Luton: It is so great to have you It's been a long time, but I really appreciate the investment that organizations put into this report. we're gonna dive into all that and a whole bunch more. So Karin Abe, got a fun warmup question before we get to all the data.

[00:02:14] Scott W. Luton: How's that sound?

[00:02:15] Abe Eshkenazi: I'm good.

[00:02:16] Karin Bursa: So, uh, we're talking about compensation here today, and to my mind it brought up my, uh, those early paychecks I got right as I bag groceries and stock shelves and, worked a lot harder than what was in my paycheck. But I wanna reminisce a bit. So, Abe, we'll start with you.

[00:02:32] Scott W. Luton: When you, when you think, about one of those early paychecks in your career, what is something you splurged on?

[00:02:38] Abe Eshkenazi: going back to the day when working at 14 to 15 years. old, serving hot dogs, uh, I don't think I had a whole lot of design in terms of what I was gonna do with that $10 paycheck. I think it was either a baseball, mit, or spikes. I think those were one of the, my early purchases that I can remember actually having money to spend on

[00:02:56] Scott W. Luton: these days when you get a baseball, I dunno if y'all both have seen this. Abe and Karin, you buy a new glove. Some of these sports stores will break it in for you. And they've got devices to do that. I used to put that under the, the tire of the car, amongst other things, Abe.

[00:03:10] Scott W. Luton: Um, so spikes and baseball, MITs. Those are great things. How about you, Karin?

[00:03:14] Karin Bursa: Mine was a little different and not, not quite as practical as spikes or a new baseball glove. I think mine was a new pair of boots. And the irony of that is I grew up in South Florida where it was, I. Hot, hot, hot. You didn't have much opportunity to wear boots, but I think at age 14 or so, you know, I saved up and I wanted that pair of very impractical boots.

[00:03:38] Karin Bursa: So, uh, that's where my, my love affair was. Shoes probably started at an early age.

[00:03:43] Scott W. Luton: Hey, we gotta get you and my daughter Gracie together. She loves footwear, loves boots too. So who knows? Uh, but hey, we can't always be practical, can we? Karin and Abe. It's good to splurge sometimes.

[00:03:54] Scott W. Luton: Alright, so Abe, I want, I wanna do this, as we get into this report. Let's start with some context.

[00:04:00] Scott W. Luton:

[00:04:00] Scott W. Luton: tell us a little about the history of, of this, uh, research.

[00:04:04] Abe Eshkenazi: we started, uh, eight years ago, uh, back in 2017. Uh, we did the first survey, and as you indicated, we have over 3,500 respondents now, and it's a cross section of supply chain professionals. We have entry level as well as senior executives, c SEOs in the mix. Um, what's changed?

[00:04:21] Abe Eshkenazi: Everything has changed over the past eight years. I think that's the easy way to say it. Uh, but if we're talking about specifically on the compensation side, significant benefits and, uh, compensation for these individuals, when we first did the survey, median salary were $78,000 for those individuals.

[00:04:39] Abe Eshkenazi: Eight years later, it's over $103,000 for those individuals, clearly recognizing, as Carol was pointing out, the value and the contribution that these individuals are making. I think, uh, I'm gonna go back to Karin's point about the role and the responsibility of these individuals and how much they've changed over the past, truly five to seven years.

[00:04:59] Abe Eshkenazi: it used to be the only time that you heard from these individuals when there was a problem. Well, we got plenty of problems right now. And these individuals are on the front of, the front lines dealing with sustainability, cybersecurity, navigating global supply chains. These are the true superheroes today.

[00:05:15] Scott W. Luton: very helpful, all of that. But where you finished. Your response is my favorite part. And Karin, we're gonna touch on this later in this review because our fearless folks that makes global supply chain happen every single day. They still are way too invisible, uh, but we're making traction.

[00:05:33] Scott W. Luton: We're making traction. Karin, what'd you hear there in terms of the, everything has changed,

[00:05:37] Scott W. Luton: uh, since they published the first one of these reports.

[00:05:40] Karin Bursa: I agree with Abe. And first of all, congratulations on the eighth edition of the report. Secondly, well done. It's very well documented. The, um, easy to consume, and I love the headline, strong salaries and Stable Careers in a Volatile World.

[00:05:58] Scott W. Luton: Yes, well said Karin. And there's, you know, there's lots of good news in this report and in industry out there, despite the challenges that we still have.

[00:06:06] Scott W. Luton: I'm not sure what y'all had in the first year Abe, but have 3,500 supply chain professionals around the world participate here in the 2025 edition.

[00:06:15] Scott W. Luton: Any insights you can share on that? Uh, that army.

[00:06:18] Abe Eshkenazi: couple that are consistent with what we saw in the prior year studies, but then there's a couple of, interesting changes that. we're seeing as well. Uh, first, who responded? Um, millennials make up the largest group, 56% followed by Gen X, uh, Aziz, and then baby boomers. This really reflects the new demographic coming into the supply chain workforce today.

[00:06:38] Abe Eshkenazi: It is much more diverse than we had probably 10 or 15 years ago. Secondly, when you take a look at the career satisfaction in terms of 2017 versus where we are today, it was 79% in 2000%. Significant satisfaction And commitment from these individuals. They stay on the job. Also, what we saw is in 2017, 57 reported flexible work arrangements.

[00:07:04] Abe Eshkenazi: It's now almost 80%. Again, reflecting the different environment that we're you know, these individuals are working in Let's get down into some of the, specifics here. uh, first on the gender pay gap, uh, in 2017 between men and women, it was 16%. Now we're seeing it's down to 9%. But here's an interesting fact, Scott.

[00:07:23] Abe Eshkenazi: the gender pay gap. Women actually outearn men in the first two years of their, um, performance of their work. Unfortunately, the pay gap inverts the longer these individuals stay in the workforce. So kudos to companies for encouraging And hiring women into the workforce.

[00:07:40] Abe Eshkenazi: We now need to give them the opportunities to lead within the supply chain, not just, you know, include them in, in the hiring. again, we're seeing significant changes in here, but I think on the leadership side, I'd like to see a little bit more commitment to the gender And the diversity of the individuals coming into the workforce.

[00:07:57] Abe Eshkenazi: Um, Scott, I think you probably, Karin and I could remember the majority of the individuals that. came into supply chain came out of finance and engineering. Predominantly white male industries back in the eighties and the nineties. now you have A significant, academic programs and supply chain degrees, so a very diverse workforce coming in.

[00:08:18] Abe Eshkenazi: So the capabilities and the, competencies of the individuals are really interesting right now because you have individuals that are digital natives coming into the workforce, but yet a lot of the leadership did not grow up with a digital environment. So there's opportunities for reverse mentoring for those, you know, individuals coming into.

[00:08:37] Abe Eshkenazi: Opportunities are abundant within the supply chain. We used to think that the lack of a significant, or a, you know, one career path was a limitation. Now we see it as an advantage for these individuals coming into the workforce. There are a significant number of roles as the study points out in terms of how to enter the supply chain and where you can lead and where you can enhance not only your capabilities, but your organization's performance.

[00:09:02] Scott W. Luton: that is just your last response could be a webinar in and of itself. Uh, there are some big important themes and opportunity to, to one of your themes there, It does abound. Uh, Corin, uh, he really shared, I think, some interesting insights, from the 3,500 Folks, that participated. What stood out to you?

[00:09:19] Scott W. Luton: I.

[00:09:20] Karin Bursa: one of the most interesting facts is the pay disparity, the gender pay disparity, and the fact that they've identified that early on. So from a recruiting stage, early in careers, they are attracting females, but at some point we're either losing them to other roles or the pay disparity flips. I'm so encouraged, number one, that the gap is getting smaller. Um, but number two, we need to, with the flexibility that's available and all of the roles that are available today, we need to keep this talent in our resource pool and keep them incented and look for those opportunities. To continue to advance them and look for equality from a compensation perspective. But the bottom line is, the first thing that Abe mentioned is so exciting to me. The fact that the median compensation is over a hundred thousand dollars a year and that is in the report shared that that's 52% higher than the national average in peer, engagement. So outside of supply chain So that underscores all these conversations we've been having for years about it's a great place to, to invest.

[00:10:34] Karin Bursa: It's a great place to build your skills. This report backs that up in a number of different ways.

[00:10:42] Scott W. Luton: Yes. Facts, not feelings. Right. Karin, that's one of your, on your other mantras.

[00:10:46] Karin Bursa: Yes.

[00:10:47] Scott W. Luton: so you're taking all my, talking points that stood out to me. So, so, but I wanna add, I wanna pick up on something else. Abe shared that I feel. My bones. He talked about a lot of folks that are just into the industry or digital natives, while a lot of folks in the C-suite. Different generation. We aren't, born technologists. I'm telling you my son Ben, who's in sixth grade, uh, he did some stuff on his phone the other day that you would've thought that? a, Uh, a highly engineered tech firm would've done. And it just is so intuitive to him, right? Where I'm trying to still figure out how to navigate chat GPT and, you know, play tic tac DO on our computers, but.

[00:11:28] Scott W. Luton: It illustrates that gap and it also illustrates lots and lots of opportunities. And of course, supply chain has to lean into, and help bridge that gap. And that's how we're gonna gonna transform and make industry work so much better, not just for consumers, but equally as important for the employees that make up the global army.

[00:11:47] Scott W. Luton: Of supply chain talent. So, uh, we got so much more to get into. so let's do this, Abe. Um, there's so many takeaways here, but if you had to narrow it down to say three of your top key takeaways, what would that be?

[00:12:00] Abe Eshkenazi: I think the first is what Karin pointed out, uh, competitive compensation. We are paying individuals for the contribution that they are making to their organizations. It's interesting when we publish this report and I go to a lot of the schools and I share with them the report and their eyes just widen when they see the, you know, the compensation I'm telling them, I say, yeah.

[00:12:19] Abe Eshkenazi: Day companies pay for value. And they said, well, I'm going to, go get my certification. I'm gonna get into supply chain. And I'm saying, well, let me explain to you the process here is that you make your organization better, then you get the compensation. It isn't, we're gonna pay you just to come on. And so the contribution that these individuals are making is commensurate with their pay.

[00:12:38] Abe Eshkenazi: Companies are paying for value, and I.

[00:12:40] Abe Eshkenazi: think that's what we're seeing here is that these individuals make a difference. Secondly, job satisfaction, 82% of these individuals indicating a high level of job satisfaction. That's significant, especially when you're talking about recruitment and retention for organizations.

[00:12:56] Abe Eshkenazi: We all love to keep our employees, especially our top performing employees, we're seeing that supply chain professionals, not only our committed to their organizations, but they're committed to their jobs. And that's an extraordinary, high satisfaction level. I Lastly, the value of our certifications professionals with our certifications enjoy a 20% medium increase over non-certified individuals.

[00:13:19] Abe Eshkenazi: That's significant, and I think this is one of the areas that organizations are paying for competency and capabilities. And over time what we've seen is a lot of individuals coming into the workforce companies aren't really satisfied with what they're bringing in terms of their capabilities. They tend to be overweighted in technology and analytics and underweighted in real world experience and critical thinking.

[00:13:43] Abe Eshkenazi: Those are dangerous combinations when you take a look at the digital transformation that's occurring in the industry right now. You need to understand and critically evaluate the data before you accept the numbers or the data coming out of the systems. And this is where we're seeing a significant contribution from these individuals to their organizations.

[00:14:02] Abe Eshkenazi: They're at the frontline. They're sitting at every level of the organization. We've said this, um, on a number of occasions, there's only two functions that have to know everything that goes on in the company. The first is finance, the second is supply chain, and we're seeing that these individuals are now being recognized for the value that they bring to their organization.

[00:14:21] Scott W. Luton: I like it, Abe. And I like that last point too. Uh, all right. Of, of those three things, Karin, I wanna pick up on that last one because we know that organizations have to, they gotta invest. I. In their workforce and, and lots of data is out there. at Gartner Supply Chain Symposium in Orlando, just a, a couple weeks ago, I stole this nugget, uh, based on Gartner research.

[00:14:41] Scott W. Luton: By 2028, 60% of supply chain digital adoption efforts will fail to deliver promise value due to insufficient investment in learning and development. Uh, it's a shame. we gotta change that. but Corin, based on. All three of Abe's key

[00:14:57] Scott W. Luton: takeaways from the report there. What would you want to speak to here?

[00:15:02] Karin Bursa: I love that we can quantify the added benefit of seeking certifications and training, um, because a lot of times the individuals do this on their own time, um, because they believe it's valuable for their career. I think this research shows that yes, in fact it is. It's, it's valuable.

[00:15:20] Karin Bursa: Not just in delivering the role they're in today, but preparing them for the future or preparing them for expanded management roles.

[00:15:27] Karin Bursa: So I think that's critically important. the other thing I think is really important and and no surprise based on all of our conversations over the years is technology. And technology is not just for technology sake. It's to augment what our talent. Talented team is doing right. Let's automate the routine activities so that they can engage and be creative problem solvers so that we can get the right products to the right customers at the right time at the best possible cost. that is where we're getting to today. And I think with the advancements in artificial intelligence and cloud computing, machine learning, et cetera, we need to embrace that So if you are not tech savvy, spend time. Understanding those capabilities. If you are tech savvy, make sure you have context for those technical skills that you understand what's happening in the supply chain.

[00:16:22] Karin Bursa: Get out there, get your hands dirty. Meet with customer suppliers. be in the production facility. You will be, so much more value to your business.

[00:16:31] Scott W. Luton: yes to all of that. and folks, if you're in college, you know, we've got our now generation series we've been doing for a long time. If you're in college, you're undeclared. There's a tremendous opportunity here in global supply chain as evidenced by all this data that we're sharing and tremendous upside, right, to be advanced.

[00:16:50] Scott W. Luton: And, it's almost like the old books back in the eighties, choose your own adventure. You remember those books where you could actively make the choices

[00:16:57] Scott W. Luton: to develop, you know, kind of build the future. There's a big element of that in global supply chain.

[00:17:02] Scott W. Luton: okay, one more thing. My key takeaway, I. One of them, Abe and Corin, uh, only 31%

[00:17:08] Scott W. Luton: of respondents believe that their supply chain contributions are recognized by the average consumer. That tells me, Karin, we've got A lot more work to do.

[00:17:17] Abe Eshkenazi: Yeah.

[00:17:18] Scott W. Luton: work.

[00:17:18] Scott W. Luton: That's our

[00:17:18] Scott W. Luton: mission here. And, uh, I know that Abe, I know that's a big part of y'all's mission, ASCM, and, uh, hey, at least we've hit 31%. Maybe by next year we can double it. We'll see. okay. So, Abe, let's do this. what was one of the most surprising elements to this year's edition of the report?

[00:17:36] Abe Eshkenazi: I think we have to put in a context as was pointing out, you know, what are the lives that these individuals are leading right now And what, you know, what's influencing their, career paths as well as their compensation. And despite the increasing global economic uncertainty, and I think we can identify from geopolitical wars, Ukraine, um, the Sue Canal, you name the hoods, uh, this is a very complex environment and the disruptions are ever, you know, layered today on top of CVID 19, which is really the spark supply chain industry continues to provide stable career paths for these individuals and high job satisfaction.

[00:18:13] Abe Eshkenazi: Uh, if you're looking to elevate your career or advising others on what they can do, the industry needs qualified, capable individuals that wanna make a difference, and that what stood out to me is that these individuals are committed to making a difference in their organizations and they're committed to staying through it.

[00:18:29] Abe Eshkenazi: And spite of all the challenges that we've thrown on 'em, you know, not only internally but externally that they've had to deal with. These individuals are. committed to their organizations. To me, I think that's the thread that keeps this industry going are the individuals that power supply chains.

[00:18:47] Abe Eshkenazi: Uh, I couldn't be more impressed and just really appreciative for every supply chain professional in terms of staying on the job through every one of the just disruptions in serving our consumers and our patients' needs.

[00:18:58] Scott W. Luton: Karin, uh, whether it's that or something else you saw, what was something that surprised you from the report?

[00:19:05] Karin Bursa: Well, there was one call out in the report?

[00:19:07] Karin Bursa: Abe, about the culture gap, Um, and about the fact that there still is a lot of opportunity, I think for. Us to appreciate

[00:19:17] Karin Bursa: internally the value proposition that the, um, supply chain professionals are bringing. So there is a 62%, I believe is the number positive company culture. and

[00:19:28] Karin Bursa: I

[00:19:28] Karin Bursa: think that in part we've gotta remember that supply chain professionals are by nature problem solvers. They look at complex situations. they're constantly thinking about, how do I do this more efficiently? How do I serve the customer? How do I keep everything moving? that wears on you a little bit, but I think sometimes they do it so well. it's not as appreciated in their companies as maybe it should be. So I think we still got lots of opportunity just to create an environment. folks are recognized for that day-to-day contribution for keeping things moving, not just the big challenges, but when things are going good, it's

[00:20:11] Karin Bursa: because they're doing their job and they're showing up and they're looking at

[00:20:14] Karin Bursa: innovation on a regular basis.

[00:20:17] Abe Eshkenazi: Scott, you and I have talked about this for years, and that is having supply chain professionals getting a seat at the table.

[00:20:23] Abe Eshkenazi: Being the strategic leaders that they are, we now have a seat at the table. We now need to use our voice at the table because we haven't trained these individuals to be in the C-suite.

[00:20:34] Abe Eshkenazi: And so they're being forced into, you know, a very visible role right now as Karin's pointing out. They were trained for. They were trained for problem solving and efficiency and effectiveness. Now we're asking add on additional strategic responsibilities, and now we need to train them to use their voice at the table and to be the true leaders that they are.

[00:20:55] Scott W. Luton: Well said to you both. And I would just add one more thing. Um, two things actually. You know, Corin, we've talked about this, when supply chains are doing well. They're not found in the headlines, so they're not, they're not getting the recognition right. but secondly, and there's always outliers in any study out there, but Abe, I saw, uh, on one of the pages, uh, and folks, again, check it out, your your own copy.

[00:21:16] Scott W. Luton: in terms of hourly work weeks, I think, and 2% in the US and 2% in Europe had claimed more than 60 hour work

[00:21:24] Abe Eshkenazi: Yeah.

[00:21:25] Scott W. Luton: again, there's outliers, but I also remember my time manufacturing where. We had some really long weeks based on the problems we were trying to solve and, other projects and whatnot.

[00:21:34] Scott W. Luton: And that speaks to me lots of different things, but. One of the things that speaks to me is that shows we still have a tremendous opportunity to make work easier and really lean into technology and what it can do to not only deliver more for our customers, which again is North star of any, uh, supply chain out there, but make life easier and more successful for our precious team members.

[00:21:58] Scott W. Luton: Right. that's a drum. We're gonna keep beating until I sign off for the final time here, Abe and Karin. Um, okay. this data deserves like a six hour webinar. No one would enjoy that except me. Maybe, but we'll save that for another time. Um, Abe, how can folks connect with you and the ASCM organization?

[00:22:19] Abe Eshkenazi: Um, easy enough at ascm org, uh, you can get access to, um, not only the content and before about the students. Student membership is free. And it's also unfettered. We have firewalls for the students. They can get all the information and all the content that we have online without, um, signing up or having to pay any fees.

[00:22:39] Abe Eshkenazi: We know that it's often tough for students to, to balance their budgets. So here's an opportunity for them to get engaged and to start their path on their careers at the right, you know. Organization and we welcome them. Uh, this is a great opportunity. We believe that's the future of supply chain, are the students.

[00:22:57] Abe Eshkenazi: We need to enable them. We need to provide them the opportunities.

[00:23:00] Scott W. Luton: It is on us as an industry and as, uh, practitioners, as leaders. And, you know, uh, Karin, you and I are very familiar with ASCM over the years. when I think of a free value proposition, uh, the networking, the access to resources, being able to attend events and connect the dots, which is always challenging for any, especially new people to come into the industry.

[00:23:22] Scott W. Luton: but, uh, Karin, what would you add to what Abe shared about plugging in with ASCM?

[00:23:28] Karin Bursa: I think that the facts back up our feelings, and that is the facts are as the research shows, that when you invest in education, in certification, in programs, you can expand your earning potential. So the, this particular year's survey says by 20%, that is substantial. How many

[00:23:48] Karin Bursa: of us wouldn't wanna pursue a 20% increase

[00:23:51] Karin Bursa: in our compensation?

[00:23:53] Scott W. Luton: well said. Uh, half of that is a great, a great year annual, uh, increase. And Karin, I think you snuck in your patented key takeaway in that response there. Am I right?

[00:24:05] Karin Bursa: I did a little bit. It is a great time to be in supply chain, but I love it when the facts back up our feelings. So,

[00:24:11] Karin Bursa: when our intuition tells us. That it's a good time to be in

[00:24:14] Karin Bursa: supply chain. That's one thing when we can look at numbers like this and it validates the need for education. This particular report also shows that it's a great place for folks coming out of high school with a high school diploma. It's a great place for them to build a career. So college is not necessarily a requirement, but leaning into honing your skills and education and understanding how your piece of the supply chain activity supports the whole business. Critically important.

[00:24:49] Scott W. Luton: big thanks. Uh, Abe Eshkenazi, CEO, with the Association for Supply Chain Management. Abe, thanks so much for being here.

[00:24:57] Abe Eshkenazi: My pleasure, Scott.

[00:24:58] Scott W. Luton: And Karin Bursa, the one and only. It is a great time to be in global supply chain. As always, great to host these shows with you.

[00:25:05] Karin Bursa: Thanks for the opportunity, and again, thanks to the ASCM team for putting this research together and sharing it with our audience today.

[00:25:13] Scott W. Luton: Right. Use this, get that promotion, get that first job. This kind of gives you a path for advancing and making more money. Lots of opportunities folks. Be sure to connect both with Abe. With Karin, and most importantly, big thanks to everyone here. Big thanks to Amanda and Joshua behind the scenes, helping make production happen.

[00:25:30] Scott W. Luton: But thanks to our global audience for tuning, in, sharing. Uh, but you got homework folks. Take one thing that Abe or Karin shared, just one thing put it in action. Share it with your team. Share it with your family. Share it with your aunt Edna up in Iowa. Whatever you do, make it actionable, right?

[00:25:46] Scott W. Luton: 'cause deed's, not words, that's the name of the game. With all that said. On behalf the Supply Chain Now team, Scott Luton, challenging you to do good, get forward, be the change that's needed, and we'll see you next time. Right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks.