1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,780 (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Welcome to the Speak and Flow podcast where 2 00:00:02,780 --> 00:00:05,700 we help CEOs and their leadership teams strengthen 3 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,600 communication so they can move together with more 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:13,060 clarity, alignment, and purpose, because I believe communication 5 00:00:13,060 --> 00:00:14,640 is not just a soft skill. 6 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:17,560 It is how your leadership team drives the 7 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,720 growth of your company. 8 00:00:19,740 --> 00:00:23,380 Today's topic is about why do great companies 9 00:00:23,380 --> 00:00:24,440 get overlooked? 10 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,600 In our society and culture of information overload, 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,480 it's not enough just to have a fantastic 12 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:35,180 product or even amazing case studies. 13 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:37,260 We need more than that to stand out. 14 00:00:38,060 --> 00:00:41,460 Joining me for this juicy topic is Borja 15 00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:41,840 Kwan. 16 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:46,340 He has more than two decades of experience 17 00:00:46,340 --> 00:00:50,540 helping companies to grow through strategic marketing, client 18 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:53,280 experiences, and performance advertising. 19 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,520 He's a co-founder of 415 Digital. 20 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Borja uses thoughtful, result-oriented approaches to help 21 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,000 organizations grow in a meaningful and sustainable way. 22 00:01:05,660 --> 00:01:07,960 I'm so excited to dive into this conversation. 23 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:08,960 Welcome, Borja. 24 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:10,840 Hey, Melinda. 25 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:11,880 Thanks for having me. 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,840 Hi, it's so good to just dive into 27 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,940 this conversation. 28 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:17,720 I'm excited to get started. 29 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,580 The first question I'm going to ask today 30 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:24,200 is, there is a busy leader out there 31 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,360 who has stopped to listen to this episode. 32 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,080 What do you hope could change in this 33 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,400 leader's life if the person takes into account 34 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,060 all the things that we are going to 35 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:34,480 talk about? 36 00:01:36,860 --> 00:01:38,840 Yeah, I think I would hope that they 37 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:45,120 come out of this with a better understanding 38 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:51,260 of how important it is to really align 39 00:01:51,260 --> 00:01:55,260 with clients and understanding what matters to clients 40 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:57,640 when you're working in a professional services environment 41 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,560 as we are. 42 00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:01,120 That really requires you to spend time with 43 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:01,620 your team. 44 00:02:04,180 --> 00:02:06,300 They come out of this really with a 45 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,740 clear understanding of what it means to have 46 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:12,700 strong communication, strong relationships with customers. 47 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:17,060 I love that because when you say that 48 00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:20,560 you would like people to have better communication 49 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,380 or relationships with clients, the first thing I 50 00:02:23,380 --> 00:02:24,760 think of, oh, you have to meet with 51 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:25,440 the clients more. 52 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,260 But you said, well, you know, you have 53 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:28,840 to actually talk more with your team. 54 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:31,380 So I'd like to dive into that. 55 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,760 And before we get into that, for the 56 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,280 audience, can you tell them more about what 57 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,160 you do at 415 Digital and what excites 58 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:39,680 you today? 59 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,840 Yeah, I'm one of the co-founders of 60 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,280 the agency. 61 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:45,400 We opened our doors about nine years ago 62 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,400 in 2017, and we essentially help businesses scale 63 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,020 by way of digital advertising, specifically on Google, 64 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,540 Meta, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and a few other platforms. 65 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,000 So we're essentially media buying, buying advertising on 66 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,360 those sites to help them acquire customers. 67 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:09,180 And in addition to media buying, we're also 68 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:12,140 helping them design ads to support their social 69 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:14,840 marketing media campaigns. 70 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:17,360 And you've been doing this quite a bit 71 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,240 for a while. 72 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,240 And so how has the landscape changed? 73 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:21,140 Is it exciting? 74 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:22,440 Is it more common? 75 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:24,400 It is. 76 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:27,620 Yeah, I joined the industry in 98, which 77 00:03:27,620 --> 00:03:30,500 for context, at the time, Google was less 78 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:31,860 than one years of age. 79 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,380 So it was a long time ago, the 80 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:36,840 internet was a relatively nascent concept. 81 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,480 And I would say, of course, yes, it's 82 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,940 changed in the last, you know, 27 years. 83 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:49,540 And I would say, in many ways, it's 84 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:54,700 gotten, I would say, more competitive, more complicated, 85 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:59,180 more entries, you know, more entrance into kind 86 00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:01,660 of the digital marketing ecosystem with a lot 87 00:04:01,660 --> 00:04:02,880 of other platforms, right? 88 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,620 That are now being sort of, I guess, 89 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,220 buying for advertising dollars. 90 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:13,640 But at the end of the day, I 91 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,839 think, well, there's there's a lot of change. 92 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,380 And now with AI, you had asked me 93 00:04:18,380 --> 00:04:19,600 kind of what am I excited about? 94 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,640 I'm excited about having an agency in, you 95 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,280 know, 2026, because I think there's an immense 96 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:26,300 amount of opportunity. 97 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:29,540 As a founder of a performance marketing agency, 98 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:31,960 a lot of ad dollars out there. 99 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:35,440 A lot of companies need the services that 100 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,640 we provide, we're in a sort of a 101 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,100 period where AI is, is really the hottest 102 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:42,780 topic. 103 00:04:42,780 --> 00:04:45,780 And we as an agency are embracing AI 104 00:04:45,780 --> 00:04:48,880 and, and using it to sort of supplement 105 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,060 the service that we provide our clients, not 106 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:53,500 that it's replacing or displacing our team, but 107 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:56,040 it's something that a tool that they're incorporating 108 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,940 into their day to day to allow them 109 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:01,020 to be more efficient and potentially remove tasks 110 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:02,560 that are more administrative in nature. 111 00:05:02,860 --> 00:05:05,480 So they can, in exchange, focus on building 112 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,900 client relationships and really focusing on revenue generating 113 00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:09,380 activity. 114 00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:11,920 So really exciting time to be in this 115 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:12,260 space. 116 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,640 Yeah, no, I love that you've been in 117 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,300 the space for so many years, and you 118 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:19,040 can then take forward all your experiences to 119 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,620 move into the next era of especially with 120 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:21,960 AI. 121 00:05:22,660 --> 00:05:24,560 And so you would think like having this 122 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,140 background of knowledge of where we've come from 123 00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:32,420 before to today, I think of advertising marketing 124 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:36,340 as more cost effective for companies more than 125 00:05:36,340 --> 00:05:39,120 ever before, because we can reach so many 126 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,320 more people, we have so many more platforms, 127 00:05:41,780 --> 00:05:44,480 but yet great companies, really good companies are 128 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,940 still getting overlooked. 129 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,540 And why do you think that that is 130 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:48,980 happening? 131 00:05:50,380 --> 00:05:52,400 Yeah, I mean, I think you said this 132 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,140 in the introduction, which is, it is not 133 00:05:56,140 --> 00:05:58,300 enough to have a great product or service, 134 00:05:58,580 --> 00:05:58,740 right? 135 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,260 I think when you're doing the marketing, it's 136 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:03,580 a lot about optics, right? 137 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,740 Case studies, sales collateral, a nice looking website 138 00:06:08,740 --> 00:06:10,560 that says all the right things. 139 00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:15,340 And that gets people interested, but ultimately, in 140 00:06:15,340 --> 00:06:18,440 order to win business today in 2026, if 141 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,160 you're a marketing agency, you need more than 142 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:21,400 that. 143 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:25,180 I think that's sort of a basic thing 144 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:27,140 that you need to have to be at 145 00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:29,800 all considered by an advertiser. 146 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,500 I think, you know, a lot of companies 147 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:37,160 get overlooked a lot because of kind of 148 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,300 the inner workings of that agency or that 149 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:40,780 business. 150 00:06:40,780 --> 00:06:45,280 I think, you know, there's sort of perception 151 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:46,400 versus reality. 152 00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:51,560 I think oftentimes, you know, we might think 153 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,400 a client likes the things that we are 154 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,680 doing, or we may think a client is 155 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,960 doing a good job. 156 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,980 But in fact, that isn't the case, right? 157 00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:05,320 We say, oh, wow, this client is really 158 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:05,660 happy. 159 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:07,340 You know, we had a call, it went 160 00:07:07,340 --> 00:07:10,000 well, they didn't say anything was wrong. 161 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:14,080 So the assumption is that things are going 162 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,080 well, right? 163 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,900 But I think oftentimes what you will come 164 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:21,260 to realize, if you really dig deep and 165 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:25,500 you ask the right questions, is that oftentimes 166 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:26,880 there's misalignment, right? 167 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,460 There are probably a lot of clients that 168 00:07:29,460 --> 00:07:32,140 you're working with who you might think are 169 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:36,340 happy with your service, but in reality are 170 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:36,640 not. 171 00:07:37,140 --> 00:07:38,480 And the reason they're not is because you've 172 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,480 never asked or the reason you don't know 173 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:41,880 that is because you've never asked them the 174 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:42,580 simple question. 175 00:07:42,740 --> 00:07:45,580 You've never actually spent time, you've never given, 176 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,760 you know, survey your clients or just had 177 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:49,960 a conversation with them. 178 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:52,960 And so I think oftentimes, you know, a 179 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,420 lot of companies are overlooked because they don't 180 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:59,540 do a really good job of understanding these 181 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:02,820 things and sort of what it takes to 182 00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:05,900 build a good relationship and earn a customer's 183 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:06,220 trust. 184 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:10,460 And it's a lot around communication and the 185 00:08:10,460 --> 00:08:12,820 way that you communicate and the frequency in 186 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:13,780 which you communicate. 187 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,020 And most importantly, what you are communicating to 188 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:18,580 your client. 189 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,060 Yeah, tell me more about that. 190 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,200 So you mentioned earlier to have really good 191 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,800 client relationships, you're going to go to your 192 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,400 team to be responsible on communicating what to 193 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:31,919 the client. 194 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:33,799 So tell me more about what you see 195 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:35,100 people doing that's wrong. 196 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,580 Yeah, so we spend a lot of time 197 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:41,100 in training and development as a professional services 198 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:41,820 organization. 199 00:08:42,220 --> 00:08:45,540 Ultimately, clients measure us on two things. 200 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,440 Number one, it's the results that we generate 201 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,580 for them, which is really helping them grow 202 00:08:51,580 --> 00:08:53,600 more revenue, more customers. 203 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,900 But in addition to that, it's the relationship 204 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:00,080 that we have with them, you know, and 205 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,940 it's important in our business to have a 206 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,180 good relationship with your client. 207 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,520 Because if you do not have a good 208 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,760 relationship, and the results are not good, you 209 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,980 oftentimes will not get a second chance. 210 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,680 If the results don't meet expectations, but the 211 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,080 relationship is exceptional. 212 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:16,980 Oftentimes, they'll give you another chance. 213 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,180 So it's really important to do both. 214 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:22,300 Obviously, hitting their numbers is number one, but 215 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:24,160 you should really be aiming for both of 216 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:24,640 those things. 217 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,120 And so we spend a lot of time 218 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:33,220 on developing our team soft skills, really working 219 00:09:33,220 --> 00:09:35,940 with them on account management. 220 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:37,200 What does that mean? 221 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,500 When you're working with a customer, what is 222 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:41,580 important, right? 223 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,380 You know, for us, we always say day 224 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:48,400 one, when we work with a client, or 225 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,900 we're onboarding them, it's sitting down with them 226 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:54,400 and understanding from them, how do they measure 227 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:55,400 us as a vendor? 228 00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:58,400 What is the success metric or KPI that 229 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,520 they look at in order to determine if 230 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,980 this is a good vendor relationship or not? 231 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:07,280 Because we are an expenditure on the P 232 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:07,960 &L for them. 233 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,400 So I always want to know, how do 234 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,400 you view this as successful? 235 00:10:13,660 --> 00:10:14,960 What is it that I need to be 236 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:15,500 looking at? 237 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,220 So I just can check at any given 238 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:19,520 time that this is working well, right? 239 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:21,680 And then we want to establish what those 240 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,980 goals are, what the KPIs are, and then 241 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:27,420 we can sort of monitor that, right? 242 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,740 And so that's part of it. 243 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,520 It's kind of the numeric side of things. 244 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,960 How do we sort of know we're doing 245 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:33,500 well or not? 246 00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:35,520 But then in addition to that is in 247 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,300 business and when you're building great relationships in 248 00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:42,020 your personal, professional life, how do relationships flourish 249 00:10:42,020 --> 00:10:42,880 or prosper? 250 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:46,620 It's usually because you're doing a good job 251 00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:49,000 of communicating with each other, right? 252 00:10:49,540 --> 00:10:51,920 If you're not good at the communication, usually 253 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,840 relationships fall apart, right? 254 00:10:54,020 --> 00:10:55,060 In your personal life. 255 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,180 And this really carries over to business. 256 00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:58,180 It's the same idea. 257 00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:00,520 We're dealing with humans or we're working with 258 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,960 human beings every day. 259 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,980 So really, the art of communication, the ability 260 00:11:05,980 --> 00:11:09,300 to communicate effectively clearly is so important in 261 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:13,440 our business because I've come to realize whenever 262 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,360 there's an issue with a client, I'm usually 263 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,980 finding that the friction point is tied to 264 00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:25,400 bad communication or non-existing communication, right? 265 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,280 And so what that means is we have 266 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,960 to know what our clients want to know 267 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:31,260 about. 268 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:32,740 We have to make sure that they are 269 00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:35,340 aware of all the things that we're doing 270 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:38,080 for them because it's not their job to 271 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,360 know all the things that we're doing. 272 00:11:40,820 --> 00:11:42,560 They have many other responsibilities. 273 00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:44,740 They have many other priorities. 274 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:48,440 So for us, it's really understanding, okay, what 275 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,620 is the information that they want us to 276 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:51,660 provide to them? 277 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:52,860 At what frequency? 278 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:54,780 And then we need to be really good 279 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:55,420 at doing that. 280 00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:56,160 Right. 281 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,140 Oh, I love that. 282 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,700 I know it is quite nuanced, depending on 283 00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:02,780 the client, but I think your overall intention 284 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:04,660 is what does a client want to hear, 285 00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:05,960 right? 286 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,600 And then also when you do communicate the 287 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,100 what they want to hear, you also have 288 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,880 to have the right communication skill, meaning when 289 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,080 you say skill, it means like the nuance 290 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,080 of listening and connecting, you know, and when 291 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,860 I'm saying the things that they want to 292 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:25,180 hear, whether it's the number or the outcome, 293 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,760 am I using it from a connection standpoint, 294 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:28,200 right? 295 00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:29,640 Am I connecting to the client? 296 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,400 And that's huge because you could just say 297 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,040 the number and say, oh, I told them 298 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,140 the number, but if the client didn't feel 299 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:41,340 that sense of connection that you care, then 300 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:43,600 the relationship is broken or not. 301 00:12:44,220 --> 00:12:45,440 It has, yeah, you wrote it. 302 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:47,020 Yeah, exactly. 303 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:50,000 I mean, it's really getting validation along the 304 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,000 way, too, from the client, right? 305 00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:55,960 You know, like I want feedback is what 306 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,380 I'm providing you today valuable to you. 307 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,840 And then I want to revisit that every 308 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:01,480 periodically. 309 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:03,120 I want to say, hey, you know, it's 310 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:03,780 been four weeks. 311 00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:05,560 Does this information still matter to you? 312 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,180 Or do we need to change it to 313 00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:10,740 something else that maybe now is more important 314 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:11,580 to you? 315 00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:14,820 So it's like making sure that you're always 316 00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:17,160 asking the client or giving them the opportunity 317 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,100 to give you feedback and, and also is 318 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,320 the information I'm providing you making sense? 319 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,620 Don't just assume because sometimes people aren't going 320 00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:28,100 to raise their hand and ask a question. 321 00:13:28,420 --> 00:13:30,600 So I like to just get sort of 322 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,240 validation along the way. 323 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,220 Do you have any questions? 324 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:34,380 Is this clear? 325 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,480 You know, is there something missing? 326 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,800 Have I not giving you something that's important 327 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,600 to you? 328 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:43,200 Have the priorities changed? 329 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,360 It's really just having the ability to, to 330 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,320 always know kind of what is important because 331 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,820 that that's, you know, that changes from time 332 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:52,380 to time. 333 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,720 And also, what we've learned is it's not 334 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,080 a one size fits all approach when it 335 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,740 comes to client services or customer service or 336 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:05,300 working with clients is every client is is 337 00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:05,760 different. 338 00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:09,220 They have a different set of experience. 339 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:13,160 They have a different list of priorities. 340 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:16,060 They like to be communicated to differently. 341 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,140 So it's really understanding for each client what 342 00:14:20,140 --> 00:14:21,660 it is for them, right? 343 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,620 Because we've oftentimes reported or provided reports or 344 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:30,380 updates to clients that they never read or 345 00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:32,480 cared to read because it wasn't something they 346 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:32,960 wanted. 347 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,200 We just assumed because we did it for 348 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,240 another client that this is what they wanted. 349 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,300 And that isn't really the right approach. 350 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:41,540 It has to be bespoke. 351 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:42,520 It has to be custom. 352 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:44,840 It has to be, hey, this is, this 353 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,900 is a different client than the other client. 354 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,680 I need to go through the same process 355 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,400 I did with them and just start over. 356 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:51,140 Right? 357 00:14:51,820 --> 00:14:54,560 So it's, it's understanding that, you know, you 358 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,720 really have to cater to that individual who 359 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,340 may have a different set of requirements for 360 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,800 the way that you communicate with them and 361 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,040 the information that you communicate with them and 362 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,420 the frequency that you communicate with them. 363 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:10,980 Would you say that this is what sets 364 00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:11,580 you apart? 365 00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:15,920 Like I would say, yeah, I think it's 366 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,180 one of the competitive differentiators. 367 00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:19,300 I think, you know, we're in a highly 368 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:20,320 commoditized space. 369 00:15:20,540 --> 00:15:21,400 I think there are a lot of people 370 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,000 that do what we do can talk about 371 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,880 all the great clients they've worked with and 372 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,440 the amount of money they managed. 373 00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:29,920 And we have all of that, but I 374 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,080 think ultimately no different than when I go 375 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,560 to a restaurant or I stay at a 376 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,400 hotel or I'm on an airline, you know, 377 00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:38,860 and I have an example of this and 378 00:15:38,860 --> 00:15:41,380 over the weekend where I was staying at 379 00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:43,060 a hotel and I made a request and 380 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:46,580 that request was very detailed and they came 381 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:47,400 through and delivered. 382 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,480 And I sent the general manager of that 383 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,740 property an email yesterday and I said, Hey, 384 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:53,400 I want you to know, I made this 385 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,560 request, which is a non-standard request. 386 00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:57,000 They did that. 387 00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:00,100 And that to me is what made that 388 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:00,880 stay memorable. 389 00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:02,040 It wasn't housekeeping. 390 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,360 It wasn't food and beverage. 391 00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:04,420 It wasn't the pool. 392 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,440 It was that little detail. 393 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,800 So I think in our business, it really 394 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,480 is about, you know, the experience a client 395 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,680 has in their interactions with us. 396 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,300 It's, you know, trying to create that connection, 397 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,720 make them feel like we care more than 398 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,380 someone else and that we take this seriously, 399 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:28,200 right? 400 00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:30,360 The profession that we are in and that 401 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,220 we're going to go above and beyond, because 402 00:16:32,220 --> 00:16:34,460 I think a lot of people, you know, 403 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,480 there's a lot of agencies out there and 404 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,520 some are great. 405 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:40,240 And unfortunately some are not great, but really 406 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,460 it's all about like what I found is 407 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:45,760 just connecting with that client and making them 408 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,480 feel that that experience is unique with 415 409 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,040 digital. 410 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,920 And by unique, I mean, Hey, these guys 411 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,420 really take the time to understand our business. 412 00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:54,680 They ask the right questions. 413 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:55,720 They do the homework. 414 00:16:56,180 --> 00:16:57,920 They are prepared for every meeting. 415 00:16:58,380 --> 00:17:00,960 They follow up with a list of notes 416 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:01,980 and action items. 417 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,119 They're very organized and structured. 418 00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:07,540 They have a very formal process in terms 419 00:17:07,540 --> 00:17:10,119 of systems and things like that. 420 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,480 And people really like that. 421 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,640 You know, the discipline comes across. 422 00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:14,980 Oh yeah. 423 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:15,720 I can see that. 424 00:17:15,819 --> 00:17:17,300 I can sense that also within you, the 425 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,040 way that you have laid it out too. 426 00:17:19,619 --> 00:17:21,240 And so how do you also communicate that 427 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,540 to the external, your clients, external new clients? 428 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,440 Yeah, it's hard. 429 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,020 Yeah. 430 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,500 Well, I guess there are two, it depends. 431 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,480 Is it a inbound or is it a 432 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,040 lead that came from inbound or is it 433 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:36,400 outbound? 434 00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:39,700 Inbound is usually, Hey, Melinda referred a customer 435 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,780 to 415 digital and Melinda spoke highly of 436 00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:43,000 us. 437 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,500 So this prospect is already warm. 438 00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:48,640 So they believe her because they trust her 439 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:49,300 and she's credible. 440 00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:52,020 So already that's a different approach. 441 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:55,120 Those folks, you've vetted for them, right? 442 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:58,220 So that's a little bit different for where 443 00:17:58,220 --> 00:18:00,740 it becomes really challenging is if it's not 444 00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:02,780 a referral, if it's just someone that we 445 00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:06,060 have gotten through our outbound efforts, they've never 446 00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:06,740 heard of us. 447 00:18:06,940 --> 00:18:10,040 They've responded to a cold email that we 448 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:10,940 sent them. 449 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,960 And that's when you really have to try 450 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,800 to create differentiation in what is a very 451 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,560 busy competitive space. 452 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:23,560 And usually with someone who's been burned by 453 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,860 an agency and has had a bad experience, 454 00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:26,280 right? 455 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,740 Because you're already fighting that uphill battle. 456 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,580 And it's understandable for them to feel that 457 00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:32,880 way. 458 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,500 So we immediately or I immediately sympathize with 459 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:37,740 them. 460 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:38,320 Yeah. 461 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,260 You know, and I say, Hey, that's extremely 462 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:41,900 frustrating. 463 00:18:42,740 --> 00:18:45,300 You work with an agency who promised all 464 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:46,700 these things and they didn't deliver. 465 00:18:47,180 --> 00:18:48,980 I can only imagine how frustrating that is. 466 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:50,660 It isn't the first time I've heard it. 467 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:56,580 And you basically try to explain with them 468 00:18:56,580 --> 00:18:58,580 how it would be different with you. 469 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,440 And then really the only way to have 470 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,680 success in that process. 471 00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:04,380 And even if you do this, you're still 472 00:19:04,380 --> 00:19:06,460 not going to bat a thousand is to 473 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:08,740 deliver some value free to them. 474 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:11,680 And that value that you deliver to them 475 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,940 has to give them a sense of what 476 00:19:15,940 --> 00:19:17,400 it would be like to work with you 477 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,200 before they work with you before they sign 478 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,820 a contract or, or, or commit. 479 00:19:22,380 --> 00:19:24,740 So for me, my approach is always give 480 00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:27,600 them something as a deliverable that will give 481 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,320 them a taste of what the experience will 482 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,220 less with us will be like so that 483 00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:35,480 they can kind of get a glimpse. 484 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:35,760 Okay. 485 00:19:35,860 --> 00:19:37,360 These guys are really thoughtful. 486 00:19:37,660 --> 00:19:39,320 They're academic in their approach. 487 00:19:39,780 --> 00:19:41,220 They take time. 488 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,500 They really understand our business. 489 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,620 You know, they, they've spent a lot of 490 00:19:46,620 --> 00:19:50,020 time without us even committing to anything to 491 00:19:50,020 --> 00:19:51,780 kind of do this for us. 492 00:19:51,820 --> 00:19:54,480 And that's kind of one way that we, 493 00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:56,080 we try to spend a lot of time 494 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,420 upfront with those types of prospects by doing 495 00:19:58,420 --> 00:19:59,420 work for free. 496 00:19:59,820 --> 00:20:02,620 And it doesn't always work because sometimes they 497 00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:04,560 just want that and they, they, they still 498 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,060 don't work with you, but it's really the 499 00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:08,580 only way you're going to try to get 500 00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:11,820 trust from someone who has never known you 501 00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,140 before. 502 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:12,980 Right. 503 00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:13,440 Oh yeah. 504 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:13,880 Yeah. 505 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,540 Well, that just speaks to the amazing company 506 00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:17,940 that you are to be able to offer 507 00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:21,100 some, some support to, to clients who are 508 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:23,760 interested and, and to show that what you 509 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:24,260 can do. 510 00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:24,660 Right. 511 00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:26,700 And so, um, and to do it, even 512 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:28,120 if you're, you're not certain if they're going 513 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:28,720 to say yes, sure. 514 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,980 So that's, uh, that's amazing that you do 515 00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:33,080 that to build that trust, you know, get 516 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:33,640 that opportunity. 517 00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:36,640 And so, and, um, so I mean, I 518 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:42,580 hear a lot about communicating, communicating consistently, communicating 519 00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:45,200 to just a cold lead, to a warm 520 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,940 lead, all the way to clients, um, that 521 00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:50,940 are already in your world and having that 522 00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:53,260 consistent communication across the board. 523 00:20:53,540 --> 00:20:56,740 So for organizations, um, that just think of 524 00:20:56,740 --> 00:21:00,100 communication, and it could be fragmented. 525 00:21:00,580 --> 00:21:04,180 They may not have, um, it's so consistent. 526 00:21:04,780 --> 00:21:07,560 What would be possible for companies if they 527 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,100 really thought about communication with a purpose, right? 528 00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:12,760 We're and it's streamlined all the way from 529 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,660 marketing sales to client fulfillment, um, and experience 530 00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:18,480 and sustainability. 531 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,580 What if that whole thorough line was consistent 532 00:21:21,580 --> 00:21:23,700 in the way we shared our messages and 533 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,620 the way we acted upon our messages and 534 00:21:25,620 --> 00:21:27,960 the way our clients receive our messages what 535 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,820 impact could that make for organizations? 536 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:32,120 Oh, it would be so nice. 537 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:32,540 I know. 538 00:21:33,780 --> 00:21:34,240 Wow. 539 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,020 Everything you said sounds perfect. 540 00:21:36,340 --> 00:21:38,140 I mean, uh, is that reality? 541 00:21:38,780 --> 00:21:41,080 Um, you know, you're, you're not looking for 542 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,480 perfection because I think perfection, uh, gets in 543 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,640 the way of good and it's oftentimes like 544 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,780 very difficult to do what you just said, 545 00:21:49,780 --> 00:21:50,080 right? 546 00:21:50,620 --> 00:21:53,800 But, uh, obviously the most successful businesses or 547 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,760 brands do exactly what you just said, right? 548 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,600 Uh, there's a lot of consistency across the 549 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,580 board and that requires a lot of investment 550 00:22:01,580 --> 00:22:06,760 in education and, uh, uh, you know, training 551 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,960 and development and all of those things, right? 552 00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:11,420 To make sure that everybody's sort of singing 553 00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:12,720 the same tune, right? 554 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:15,840 So I think for us, we, we do 555 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,360 spend a lot of time as a team 556 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,340 talking about these things, right? 557 00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:21,260 Like, what do we want the client's experience 558 00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:21,680 to be? 559 00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:22,660 What is our mission? 560 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,860 Uh, you know, what are, um, uh, the 561 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:28,880 expectations clients have of us? 562 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,960 Like we really try to be as transparent 563 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,840 as we can to the different groups within 564 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:34,400 the organization. 565 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,380 And we're not Apple. 566 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,060 We're not a big company. 567 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,240 We're a small company. 568 00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:41,020 Um, so it's a lot easier to do 569 00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:43,680 when you only have 20 something people in 570 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,480 your organization. 571 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,340 This isn't an organization with thousands of employees. 572 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,340 So I don't want to make it sound 573 00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:52,600 like, um, doing it at this size is, 574 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,580 is a monumental lift. 575 00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:56,080 But at the end of the day, it 576 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,460 still requires effort and in some level of 577 00:22:59,460 --> 00:23:00,280 formality. 578 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,780 But yeah, what we try to do is 579 00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:04,520 just everybody, uh, there's a lot of transparency 580 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,600 within the organization. 581 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,620 We spend a lot of time together having 582 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:09,840 these conversations in terms of what we want 583 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,600 the messaging to be, what we want the 584 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,920 customer experience to be. 585 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,900 We're very specific with, Hey, in terms of 586 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,300 comms, what do we want you to be 587 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:19,740 communicating with the clients? 588 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,980 What frequency even most recently, maybe two months 589 00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:26,640 ago, we introduced one new thing where we 590 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,820 made it a requirement for our, our account 591 00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:34,900 managers to send one win per week to 592 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:36,140 each of their clients. 593 00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:39,420 It didn't need to be anything huge. 594 00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:42,280 It could be a small victory, something that 595 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600 you want to highlight every week on a 596 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:45,660 Friday to your client. 597 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,060 It actually doesn't need to be a Friday. 598 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,360 It just was a requirement that, Hey, once 599 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,560 a week, in addition to all the other 600 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,020 comms, emails, Slack, zoom, uh, weekly calls, whatever 601 00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:56,400 it is. 602 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,080 I want you to send one email to 603 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,360 your client highlighting one win. 604 00:24:00,420 --> 00:24:00,900 Yeah. 605 00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:01,640 Right. 606 00:24:02,180 --> 00:24:04,680 Even that to me is, is important. 607 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,640 And we rolled that out, you know, eight 608 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,000 years into the business, eight and a half 609 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:09,720 years into the business. 610 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,800 And these are things that you're constantly trying 611 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,400 to experiment with and, and you're learning new 612 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,280 approaches to, to, to, to working with clients. 613 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,880 And, and also I always say, it might 614 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,540 be that some clients delete that message, never 615 00:24:24,540 --> 00:24:25,780 read it, but that's okay. 616 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,640 That's not the point. 617 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,460 We're still going to do it because we 618 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:30,200 do know a lot of clients will value 619 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,840 it and, and, and read it. 620 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,300 And we've gotten a lot of feedback from 621 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:33,580 clients. 622 00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:34,500 These are great. 623 00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:35,260 Keep them up. 624 00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:38,500 So that's kind of good validation points. 625 00:24:39,060 --> 00:24:40,900 So like, even things like that and, and, 626 00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:43,980 and introducing other ways to connect with clients, 627 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,780 share information that we think is, is, is 628 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:47,800 interesting to them. 629 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,360 Also, again, another, you know, another thing I 630 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,620 say to our team is it's really on 631 00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:56,460 us to pat ourselves on the back. 632 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,940 Our clients aren't always going to sing our 633 00:24:58,940 --> 00:25:00,460 praises and that's okay. 634 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,200 We're, we're the ones who are providing the 635 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:03,560 service. 636 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,960 So oftentimes you only hear from a client 637 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,520 if things are not going well. 638 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,340 Sometimes we have great clients that praise us 639 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:14,020 too, but more often than not, you know, 640 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,720 it's the service business, right? 641 00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:17,880 And so what I tell our team is 642 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,380 it's really up to us to highlight all 643 00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:23,960 the great things we're doing, you know, all 644 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,320 the great things that we've done, whether they're 645 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,020 small, medium, or large, they all count. 646 00:25:29,740 --> 00:25:33,540 So I really encourage the team and it's 647 00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:35,860 not something that people are very comfortable with. 648 00:25:35,860 --> 00:25:38,320 If you can believe it, they don't like 649 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,420 it because they think it's bragging or they're 650 00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:42,820 paying themselves a compliment. 651 00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:45,380 And I learned a long time ago early 652 00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:48,220 in my career that it's, it's up to 653 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:50,120 you to highlight all the great things you're 654 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,100 doing because everybody else is too busy too. 655 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:54,680 And it's, it's really your job, right? 656 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,580 As much as we all want a manager 657 00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:58,620 and a client to praise us all the 658 00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:00,160 time, it's just not realistic. 659 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,580 So I was taught early, Hey, if you 660 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:04,580 did something great, make it known. 661 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,060 And I, and, and if you're worried about 662 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:09,800 it coming across as bright, believe me, nobody 663 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,040 on the client side or your managers, like 664 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,840 if anybody ever said they were, I always 665 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,100 tell my team, if you come to me 666 00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:17,840 every day and tell me you're doing great 667 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,480 things, believe me, I will never say to 668 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,000 myself in my head, this person is so, 669 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:24,480 all they do is brag about what they 670 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:24,640 do. 671 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,820 I'd be like, this is great. 672 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:26,800 Give me more. 673 00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:27,980 I thrive on that. 674 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:28,440 Yes. 675 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:28,960 Yes. 676 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:29,260 Yes. 677 00:26:29,260 --> 00:26:29,520 Yes. 678 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:29,920 Yeah. 679 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:30,480 I agree. 680 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,580 I agree because we're making progress. 681 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,460 It's positive. 682 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,240 We need positive energy. 683 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,100 We need positive energy. 684 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:39,580 And it may be that it might not 685 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:40,460 just be an update. 686 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,600 I did x, y, z, like what is 687 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,860 the shift that we're making? 688 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,900 What is the progress that we're making that 689 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:47,720 keep on giving me more, not just an 690 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,200 update of your activities. 691 00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:50,220 Exactly. 692 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,480 And it could be something that isn't good 693 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,360 news, but Hey, by the way, I identified, 694 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,060 yeah, this is, this is broken, but, but 695 00:26:58,060 --> 00:27:00,320 I identified it before the client did. 696 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,620 So I wanted to let the client know 697 00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:03,960 and, and here's the fix that we're working 698 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:04,160 on. 699 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,800 And here's when it's going to be done. 700 00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:06,300 Yeah. 701 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,240 Like, you know, because that tells me that 702 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,580 people are looking out for clients and they're 703 00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:11,560 getting ahead of it. 704 00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:13,940 And when it comes to me, when I'm 705 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:15,860 the customer and someone does it, I'm like, 706 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:18,000 Oh my God, I, you know, my, my 707 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,700 accountant, Oh, I noticed this, this, this problem 708 00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:21,240 in the books. 709 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,080 Oh, I, I, Oh, I wouldn't have known 710 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:23,300 that. 711 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,600 Thank you for being another set of eyes 712 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:25,920 for me. 713 00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:28,440 So it just also reassures me that they 714 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,560 are looking at these things in our detail 715 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,040 oriented. 716 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,340 So the update doesn't always have to be, 717 00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:35,800 we hit a, you know, a milestone or 718 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,680 a new record day or something. 719 00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:39,480 It could just be like you said, it 720 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,320 could be anything, right? 721 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:42,120 It's just, it's not a task per se. 722 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,020 It's just, here's something that I think is 723 00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:46,880 meaningful and worthy of communicating to you and 724 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,200 why. 725 00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:49,000 Yeah. 726 00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:51,320 Well, it sounds like you're doing a lot 727 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,880 of at least intentional, like you're creating good 728 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,440 habits at four 15 digital, you know, you 729 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,340 said you're small, you're 20, you know, 20, 730 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,460 but it's still like you're creating these good 731 00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:03,560 habits so that you can scale effectively so 732 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,040 that all of these good habits, you take 733 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,260 it forth as you continue to scale the 734 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:09,140 company, which is so important. 735 00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:09,560 You have to. 736 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,020 Yeah. 737 00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:13,100 You know, developing these habits and being consistent 738 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:17,400 with the habits is, is really important and 739 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,280 honestly easier said than done. 740 00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:23,560 It requires constant work and we've made mistakes 741 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,000 along the way and we're just trying to 742 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,520 iterate and get better. 743 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:27,820 Right, right. 744 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,460 No, that's the best way to do it 745 00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:31,440 because you're iterating and getting better with the 746 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,400 clients that you have and keeping them in 747 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:33,600 mind. 748 00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:34,780 One last question. 749 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,220 That was so amazing. 750 00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:40,140 That's so true. 751 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:40,980 What you just said. 752 00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:44,400 And so this last question is if the 753 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,680 company, when organizations take all of this consistent 754 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,020 communication, purposeful communication to count as a scale, 755 00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:53,340 what could that do for the legacy of 756 00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:53,860 the company? 757 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,540 So what could this do for the legacy 758 00:28:55,540 --> 00:28:56,240 of your company? 759 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,720 I mean, for me, it, you know, my 760 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,120 legacy is if someone talks about my company 761 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,440 in a favorable way that we doing business 762 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,520 with 415, they're ethical, they're hardworking, they're results 763 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,920 oriented, they helped my business grow. 764 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,500 Those are, those are the things that I 765 00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:19,800 want to leave behind is, you know, the 766 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,860 reputation we have and that these customer experiences 767 00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:26,900 were memorable and that we actually made an 768 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:27,420 impact. 769 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,320 And I think all of these things that 770 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,100 we're talking about are what allow you to 771 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:33,220 create those outcomes and leave that type of 772 00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:33,580 legacy. 773 00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:34,840 Exactly. 774 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,820 When, cause it's not when you're in the 775 00:29:36,820 --> 00:29:38,860 room speaking about it, it's when the people 776 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,820 that are around you, your team, your clients 777 00:29:40,820 --> 00:29:41,940 are speaking about it. 778 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,700 That is what sets the legacy. 779 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:47,780 Well, I, I am so glad that we 780 00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:48,780 had this chance to talk. 781 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,500 I thought it was very powerful, rich with 782 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,880 so many wonderful insights and appreciate your time, 783 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,460 Borja. 784 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:57,940 My pleasure. 785 00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:58,940 Thanks for having me on.