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Speaker: Motherhood is all consuming.
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Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much, and
there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.
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Speaker 2: It's a privilege of being your child's safest space
and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.
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Speaker 3: The truth is, I can be having the best time
being a mom one minute, and then the next time questioning.
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My life choices.
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Speaker: I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four
Littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy
middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.
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If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside and
then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such
thing as a best way to do any of this, and we're leaning into that truth here.
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With the mix of real life and what the textbook
says, expert Insights and Practical Applications.
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Each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate
in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.
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This is the lo and behold podcast.
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Lo: If you are currently expecting a baby, or maybe you've had
one in the past, I'm sure that you are very aware of the fact that
doulas can significantly impact birth outcomes for the better.
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And if you didn't know that, well, now you do.
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It is very, very true and it is also very evidence-based that they can
just remarkably change what happens in your birth with a lot of specificity
related to rates of induction or rates of cesarean, things like that.
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They play.
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Obviously a massive role.
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So if it's something that you can afford or you can add to your birth
plan, it is something that I almost universally would say Yes, go for it.
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Go for that doula.
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Today I got to talk with Sarah Osborne.
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She has been a full-time birth doula for 17 years
and has attended over 900 births as a doula.
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She is also a birth photographer.
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I love her birth photography, a childbirth educator and a doula mentor.
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If you are considering being a doula and you have any interest at all in
some sort of mentorship, definitely check that out via Sarah's website.
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Sarah lives in the Pacific Northwest, so there's a little
hometown love connection with her that I obviously love as well.
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She lives with her husband and her three big kids, and of course.
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Her two cats.
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I so enjoyed this conversation with Sarah today, not
just because we broke down some basics for you, right?
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I want you to know what a doula is, what they can do, what they can't do, why it
matters, but also because in this convo, we kind of delve into navigating the work
that doulas do in the birth world, and then social media and how there's kind of this.
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Overriding narratives between what people think about doulas or how
they speak about doulas, and then also how a doula has to kind of
show up and present themselves in the world when those narratives
are flying around above our heads, whether or not they're true.
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I found this conversation super interesting.
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You'll see that Sarah has just a beautiful heart for birth for the families that she
serves, and I think that comes through very clearly as you guys listen to us chat.
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Hi, Sarah.
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I am so excited to have you here with me.
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Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself a little
bit and then we'll just jump into our conversation.
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Sarah: Yeah.
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I am Sarah Osborne.
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I have been a doula for 17 years full-time.
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I've attended over 900 births as a doula.
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I'm also married, I have three kids.
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I live in Washington State.
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Lo: Sarah and I share that little connection so we know each other kind of professionally.
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And I would say like friendship now too.
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But as soon as I found out she was from Washington State, I feel like my heart
just like lit up a little bit because I just, I, I still love where I'm from.
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Yeah.
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I'm actually gonna be back there soon.
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Present day.
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We're recording this right before the 4th of July, and I'll actually be up
there over the holidays, which is like the best time to be in the Northwest.
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So.
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Yeah, I felt like a little kindred spirit.
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Yeah.
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Which probably makes no sense, but just from that right away.
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So.
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Okay, so before we started recording and hit record,
Sarah and I were just talking about kind of like.
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Why she does what she does.
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And I had said that, I recently had, I woke up, I had a friend
call me, she's pregnant, she thought she was going into labor.
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I said, I'll be your person in the middle of the night to watch your kids.
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So she called me at 2:00 AM I ran over to her house, was
there, she ended up actually coming home the next day.
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It was false labor.
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But I was exhausted.
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I was telling Sarah, I was so tired.
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And so I kind of was just saying like, man, I, I hated
being on call as a nurse and I hated working nights and.
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I obviously like, loved the work, but hated that part.
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So essentially what I'm getting at is one, Sarah, you're amazing.
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All doulas are for doing this work over and over and over again.
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And then two, how did, why, how'd you end up here?
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I know you've been doing this for a very long time.
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Sarah: Yeah.
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How'd
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Lo: you get here?
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Sarah: Well, how did I get here?
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I mean, I started slow, right?
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Yep.
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I, I, I knew I wanted to be a doula.
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When I learned what a doula was.
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Lo: Mm-hmm.
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Which
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Sarah: is when I was pregnant with my second baby.
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Okay.
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That's when I found out doulas are a thing.
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I actually hired one for that birth and ever since I learned
that was a job, I was like, oh my gosh, I totally wanna do that.
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But I had to wait, you know, for like timing to be right and all of those things.
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And so I started out slow, you know, like got my training and all of that, but.
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It takes time to, like, I have clients hire you
and, slowly work into like a full-time practice.
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But I just never quit and I loved it.
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And so, you know, it just, it's slowly built over the, I
think my goal in my first year was to go to like 12 births.
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Okay.
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In my first year as a doula, which is kind of a lot actually
like, but like one a month is what I was thinking and I did it.
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And then from there it just like, you know, snowballed.
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So, yeah.
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So I was a full-time like solo doula Okay.
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For the first 12 years.
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So like, everything was just me.
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I was the only doula on call and now I have a collective where I
work with two other doulas and my workload has not gone down at all.
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In fact, it's probably increased, but it seems like it has.
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Yeah, I do have like that load of sharing, like some
on-call time and you know, other responsibilities.
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So yeah, it's pretty great.
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However, I do, I do pretty much live on call.
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Lo: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It feels like you are.
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Sarah posts like this little thing on her Instagram each time
she says, I'm basically, I'm birth bound, like headed to a birth.
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And obviously our algorithm doesn't feed us
everything actually immediately when it's happening.
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But I source sometimes I see your account.
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I'm like, she's been at 12 births in the last four days.
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How is this possible?
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So it does seem like you are just helping a lot
of families and that you are, I guess, just.
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In it consistently.
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Yes.
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Like you're saying that there's not a lot of breaks or pauses or still miss, so, yes.
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Yeah.
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So that I, in that answer too, I, there's a
couple things I want to zoom in on really quick.
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One of them sounds maybe a little bit fundamental, but why don't you just
explain to everyone what a doula is and kind of those boundaries of this is
what I can do and this is what I can't do, so people understand that difference.
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Sarah: Yeah, that's a great question.
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So.
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A doula, how I describe it mm-hmm.
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Is like a labor coach.
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So I am like your, the parent's personal hired person to be labor support.
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So I'm helping with position changes, comfort measures, pain, coping
ideas, education, information, making sure you know that they know.
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All the pros and the cons.
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Yeah.
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And like, you know, have, feel like they're getting all the information to make
informed decisions and that they're communicating well with their care provider.
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And, you know, there's also like a little bit of advocacy in there,
but also as a doula, like legally I cannot speak for someone.
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So I'm never gonna tell a doctor, you know, don't do,
I'm not gonna speak to the doctor and say, don't do that.
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Instead what I, this is how I explain it to clients, is I say, instead, I will just ask a
question in front of everybody and say, so say the doctors wants to cut the cord, right?
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And maybe they want a delayed cord clamping.
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This is just my example.
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Instead of me talking to the doctor and saying like, don't do that.
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I'm instead asking.
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In front of the doctor to the parents, like,
oh, it looks like he is gonna clamp the court.
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Are you ready for him to do that?
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Like, is that okay with you?
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Did you wanna wait?
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So it's like bringing to the parent's attention, like, oh, this
might be something that wasn't in your plan, and giving them the
chance to speak up because maybe they don't care and I don't care.
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Right, right, right.
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Like I just want them to, yeah.
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Make their own decisions, but it's also like when I say it out loud,
then usually the doctor's like, oh, whoa, wait, maybe I need to wait.
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Yeah.
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Lo: It's actually like that specific piece of it is like
obviously the labor support hands on stuff so valuable, right?
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Yes.
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But that part right there, I actually think is almost one of the most
valuable pieces because in the hospital we just do the things we know to do.
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Right.
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And I'm guilty of that too.
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So I'm not saying, oh, put me on a pedestal and all these other nurses.
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Down there like.
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The placenta comes out, we hang that bag of pit, we're ready to run that Pitocin, right?
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The cord clamps are on that delivery table.
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That's just part of the delivery process, right?
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Like there's all these things and yes, we should be pausing and saying and
confirming with those parents each time, but the reality is, is we're not.
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Yeah.
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And we should be.
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And I think in an excellent nurse and excellent provider, they are.
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Right.
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And you can feel that difference and you can see that difference
when you are delivering with someone like that, right?
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But since most aren't.
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Maybe they're in a hurry.
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Maybe they've got two moms delivering at the same time.
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Maybe they have to run to the, or whatever the, I'm gonna say excuse might be.
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Mm-hmm.
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The truth is they're, you're just not always gonna get that like pause and
that informed choice with each of those things, and it really should be there.
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So I think so much of the gift of a good doula is exactly
what you just said, is just making that pause happen.
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Right.
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Like being the person in the room who hits that
button, because sometimes they think the nurse is well.
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Won't speak even if they want to.
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You run into that issue of the doctor, like why are you always overstepping?
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Or you might have that feeling from the, I'll say like head provider
where they're saying, why are you constantly kind of questioning.
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The things that I'm, you know, suggesting to
the mom or that's our normal standard of care.
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And so I think as a nurse that can be a little bit of a dance.
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'cause you are obligated to those relationships and your protocols as well.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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But your doula's only obligation is to you.
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Yeah.
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Like your job is to serve that family and so you don't have.
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To worry about Right.
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What the nurse or doctor thinks of you.
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And that's a gift.
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Right, right, right.
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For sure.
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Sarah: Yes.
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Yeah.
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So, and there's, there's just so, there's so much, I mean,
like, I feel like that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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Yes.
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But yeah.
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Yeah.
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Lo: So really quickly too, I, I do want people to know a little more What's it look like?
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Hey, prenatally, this is what I do for you versus in birth.
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'cause so many know Yeah.
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You, you show up at my birth.
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But there.
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What's that look like leading up to labor birth?
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Sarah: Yeah, so every doula is gonna work a little bit different, right?
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In what that looks like.
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But, for me, I do like, I usually have a Zoom call to like interview
with someone and see if it's a good fit and we wanna work together.
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And I think that's really important.
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I actually just read on a, on a Facebook group
yesterday that there's a doula who doesn't do that.
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And it kind of shocked me.
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Lo: Yeah.
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Sarah: Because I'm like, how can you just let someone hire you
and you have never chatted with them like that is seems not great.
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Lo: Mm-hmm.
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Sarah: Because it's, it's a mutual thing.
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Like it's not just them interviewing me like I wanna know, am I good fit for them?
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Do mm-hmm.
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Do we vibe, you know.
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So there's that.
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Once someone, one wants to move forward, they hire me.
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That's like contracts, money, all that stuff.
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And then usually I give everyone, like, I have
a separate number aside from my own cell phone.
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That's like my, my on-call number.
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And so they have access to that right away to ask me questions.
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If they need like, resources, information.
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If they're wondering about like, books and classes or they read
something scary online and they're like, oh my gosh, is this true?
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Like, what do you know?
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All of that.
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Like, I'm just there.
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Basically I say, I'm your Google now.
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Like, don't Google anything and just text me instead.
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Yeah.
217
00:13:01,982 --> 00:13:02,072
Yeah.
218
00:13:02,122 --> 00:13:05,332
And then I just do one prenatal visit in person.
219
00:13:05,392 --> 00:13:05,422
Okay.
220
00:13:05,482 --> 00:13:07,192
A lot of doulas do two to three.
221
00:13:07,467 --> 00:13:07,757
Okay.
222
00:13:08,377 --> 00:13:14,617
But I'm so busy and I find that my clients are busy and they're
usually working and they don't, we just don't need to do two.
223
00:13:14,647 --> 00:13:15,487
So, yeah.
224
00:13:15,547 --> 00:13:20,287
So I just do one and it's typically between 30 and 32 weeks.
225
00:13:20,677 --> 00:13:20,767
Lo: Mm-hmm.
226
00:13:21,247 --> 00:13:21,427
Sarah: Yeah.
227
00:13:21,507 --> 00:13:22,317
And it's pretty long.
228
00:13:22,347 --> 00:13:23,817
It's like a, it's like two hours.
229
00:13:24,327 --> 00:13:24,627
Lo: Okay.
230
00:13:24,867 --> 00:13:25,287
Nice.
231
00:13:25,317 --> 00:13:26,727
It's like an intensive, right.
232
00:13:26,727 --> 00:13:32,487
And then, but that open access to you, like the idea
of truly walking away from Google if they do that.
233
00:13:32,487 --> 00:13:32,577
Mm-hmm.
234
00:13:32,967 --> 00:13:35,757
Also a gift if they recognize that too, right?
235
00:13:35,997 --> 00:13:36,297
Yes.
236
00:13:36,397 --> 00:13:40,577
You mentioned too in there, just like other things
I'm thinking of as well for any moms right now.
237
00:13:41,482 --> 00:13:43,012
Asking themselves, should I have a doula?
238
00:13:43,012 --> 00:13:43,822
What's this gonna look like?
239
00:13:44,212 --> 00:13:46,042
Doulas can work in practices.
240
00:13:46,072 --> 00:13:46,162
Mm-hmm.
241
00:13:46,402 --> 00:13:52,402
So maybe if you can speak to that a little, like, what that
might mean for a family who hires someone who has partners.
242
00:13:52,612 --> 00:14:02,122
And then I recently had a student who delivered, and she worked with like a,
an on-call doula group almost, where you just are like, Hey, I'm in labor.
243
00:14:02,122 --> 00:14:05,152
And I think they kind of send out whoever's on call.
244
00:14:05,362 --> 00:14:05,632
Got it.
245
00:14:05,632 --> 00:14:05,992
So.
246
00:14:07,207 --> 00:14:09,487
Like, to me that doesn't feel ideal.
247
00:14:09,487 --> 00:14:11,107
My guess is it's also more affordable.
248
00:14:11,107 --> 00:14:13,507
So there's a lot more that goes into that conversation.
249
00:14:13,551 --> 00:14:13,641
Yeah.
250
00:14:13,721 --> 00:14:19,691
But just maybe questions that may a family could
ask in those situations to kind of navigate like.
251
00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:23,156
I'm not actually going to get Sarah, or I might get Sarah.
252
00:14:23,156 --> 00:14:23,246
Right.
253
00:14:23,486 --> 00:14:26,156
So how could that decision process look like for them?
254
00:14:26,156 --> 00:14:26,246
Yes.
255
00:14:26,246 --> 00:14:26,276
I
256
00:14:26,276 --> 00:14:32,766
Sarah: think it's really important to know like, how does this
doula work, if she's a solo doula, like who is her backup doula?
257
00:14:32,771 --> 00:14:33,131
Mm-hmm.
258
00:14:33,406 --> 00:14:37,096
Because you ne sometimes people wanna hire a solo doula and that's great.
259
00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:40,441
And that's the majority of doulas out there are just Yeah.
260
00:14:41,056 --> 00:14:41,866
Solo doulas.
261
00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:53,356
And, but every, but knowing like every once in a while it's, she can't
come, like, she's gonna be sick, she's gonna have a kid that breaks a
leg, she's gonna have a funeral or whatever, like this has all happened.
262
00:14:53,386 --> 00:14:53,506
Mm-hmm.
263
00:14:53,746 --> 00:14:53,756
Right?
264
00:14:53,756 --> 00:14:54,001
Mm-hmm.
265
00:14:54,086 --> 00:14:57,166
And if that happens, she's gonna send you a backup.
266
00:14:57,766 --> 00:15:02,686
And so that backup to you is probably a stranger.
267
00:15:02,866 --> 00:15:02,956
Mm-hmm.
268
00:15:03,196 --> 00:15:03,286
And
269
00:15:03,286 --> 00:15:05,446
Sarah: that is a real huge bummer.
270
00:15:05,446 --> 00:15:06,856
Like it works out.
271
00:15:06,886 --> 00:15:08,296
It's just not ideal.
272
00:15:08,596 --> 00:15:10,366
And so sometimes people then.
273
00:15:10,936 --> 00:15:16,426
Sometimes people are fine to like take that chance of like
99% chance it'll work and I'm, I'm gonna get my doula.
274
00:15:16,607 --> 00:15:24,587
But knowing it doesn't always, and then there's also like the
partnership model and that can work in a bunch of different ways.
275
00:15:24,587 --> 00:15:30,287
I've seen doulas who have like built-in backup support, but they kind of still.
276
00:15:30,707 --> 00:15:33,737
Have their own clients that hire them within like a group.
277
00:15:34,337 --> 00:15:38,052
So you're still kind of guaranteed that one doula that you pick, but mm-hmm.
278
00:15:38,137 --> 00:15:39,647
You know who the backups will be.
279
00:15:40,067 --> 00:15:46,217
And then I've, I actually have a, a collective
myself, so I work with two other doulas and we rotate.
280
00:15:46,367 --> 00:15:48,917
So, that's a different model too.
281
00:15:48,917 --> 00:15:49,302
So I think just.
282
00:15:50,282 --> 00:15:54,032
Parents like, need to understand what, what this really is gonna look like.
283
00:15:54,492 --> 00:15:56,352
There's pros and cons to all of them.
284
00:15:56,772 --> 00:15:57,882
Yep, definitely.
285
00:15:57,882 --> 00:16:03,882
And so just feeling like what feels like a good fit for you, but in my collective.
286
00:16:04,617 --> 00:16:08,667
Basically our clients, they hire the three of us, like as a team.
287
00:16:08,667 --> 00:16:14,967
So they are, we are all chatting with them on that, all
on-call number, and we all go to the prenatal visit together.
288
00:16:15,027 --> 00:16:19,557
So they're not like getting to know one doula better than the others.
289
00:16:20,277 --> 00:16:20,547
Lo: Okay.
290
00:16:20,547 --> 00:16:24,117
So all three of you are at that first, that appointment that you're talking about?
291
00:16:24,117 --> 00:16:24,177
Yeah.
292
00:16:24,177 --> 00:16:24,537
Okay.
293
00:16:25,017 --> 00:16:25,857
I like that model.
294
00:16:25,857 --> 00:16:25,917
Yeah.
295
00:16:25,947 --> 00:16:29,847
But then they don't know, your parents, parents wouldn't know who when they go into labor.
296
00:16:29,847 --> 00:16:31,347
It's like whoever's on call that week.
297
00:16:31,347 --> 00:16:31,437
Yes.
298
00:16:31,437 --> 00:16:32,787
For your collective or whatever.
299
00:16:32,877 --> 00:16:33,207
Okay.
300
00:16:33,792 --> 00:16:34,122
Okay.
301
00:16:34,362 --> 00:16:37,902
Yeah, so ultimately, and we did chat about this before we were starting too.
302
00:16:37,907 --> 00:16:38,267
It's not.
303
00:16:38,967 --> 00:16:41,547
Too dissimilar from kind of picking a provider.
304
00:16:41,547 --> 00:16:41,637
Mm-hmm.
305
00:16:41,877 --> 00:16:43,197
A delivering provider.
306
00:16:43,437 --> 00:16:43,527
Right.
307
00:16:43,527 --> 00:16:44,787
It's the same questions, right?
308
00:16:44,787 --> 00:16:46,257
Like, do you work in a practice?
309
00:16:46,737 --> 00:16:51,207
Like what is the vibe of your partner if they commit Right.
310
00:16:51,207 --> 00:16:55,407
You know, like it, it pays to do that work.
311
00:16:55,707 --> 00:16:55,917
Yeah.
312
00:16:55,947 --> 00:17:02,607
Because is a very good chance, the doctor that you love is
not going to be the one who actually delivers your baby.
313
00:17:02,667 --> 00:17:04,977
And I'm sure in a doula collective.
314
00:17:05,802 --> 00:17:06,582
It's similar, right?
315
00:17:06,582 --> 00:17:09,882
Like you probably are gonna have a favorite, but they might not be the one Right.
316
00:17:09,882 --> 00:17:10,962
Who gets to come in.
317
00:17:11,082 --> 00:17:11,472
Yeah.
318
00:17:11,832 --> 00:17:12,262
Yeah, yeah.
319
00:17:12,942 --> 00:17:21,252
I think, another thing inside of all of that too is
you, you mentioned earlier the word like vibe check.
320
00:17:21,732 --> 00:17:27,017
Is there a specific way you think that families can.
321
00:17:28,467 --> 00:17:32,427
Do that vibe check or any questions that you think are so valuable.
322
00:17:32,427 --> 00:17:37,527
Like when you hear a family say, Sarah, tell me X, Y, z. Fill in the blank for me here.
323
00:17:37,767 --> 00:17:42,147
Like where you can tell they're really trying
to do the work to see if you guys fit together.
324
00:17:42,237 --> 00:17:47,187
Sarah: Yeah, that is a really great question and I wish I had a super great answer.
325
00:17:48,357 --> 00:17:52,857
So, I mean, I, I think a lot of times parents will.
326
00:17:53,577 --> 00:17:57,957
Like print off the Google questions of like, here's the questions to ask your doula.
327
00:17:58,017 --> 00:18:02,427
You know, if you're interviewing a doula, and a lot of, a lot of those aren't like.
328
00:18:03,582 --> 00:18:05,802
They don't pertain a lot or they're just mm-hmm.
329
00:18:06,282 --> 00:18:10,692
Like, it's almost like they're just checking off
the boxes to like, ask like very generic questions.
330
00:18:10,752 --> 00:18:11,142
Yeah.
331
00:18:11,147 --> 00:18:11,257
Lo: Yeah.
332
00:18:11,712 --> 00:18:19,512
Sarah: So it's okay to like, throw that list away and come up
with your own questions, like it's really more personality.
333
00:18:19,542 --> 00:18:23,952
'cause you're gonna, you are gonna spend intimate time with this person.
334
00:18:24,132 --> 00:18:24,222
Mm-hmm.
335
00:18:24,642 --> 00:18:27,462
And you want to feel comfortable around them.
336
00:18:27,792 --> 00:18:30,657
You want to enjoy them, like get along with them.
337
00:18:31,377 --> 00:18:39,267
So it should be like, oh, this is someone I like and that I wanna
spend time with, and I feel very comfortable and like I trust them.
338
00:18:39,897 --> 00:18:39,987
Mm-hmm.
339
00:18:40,232 --> 00:18:44,487
It's, it's trying to ask the questions to where are,
how are you gonna find that out as fast as you can?
340
00:18:45,207 --> 00:18:47,967
Versus like, how long have you been a doula?
341
00:18:48,177 --> 00:18:49,767
What's, you know, like those questions.
342
00:18:49,797 --> 00:18:49,947
Right.
343
00:18:50,037 --> 00:18:50,277
But,
344
00:18:50,377 --> 00:18:56,285
Lo: yeah, I think the reality too is those questions are different for each of you.
345
00:18:56,290 --> 00:18:56,520
Mm-hmm.
346
00:18:56,605 --> 00:18:58,235
Like, let's say I'm just.
347
00:18:58,745 --> 00:18:59,375
Get honest.
348
00:18:59,885 --> 00:19:02,225
My mom died right in the middle of me having my first baby.
349
00:19:02,285 --> 00:19:06,755
Like maybe I'm asking questions 'cause I wanna a doula with my second baby around that.
350
00:19:06,755 --> 00:19:06,965
Right?
351
00:19:06,965 --> 00:19:07,415
Like, yeah.
352
00:19:07,685 --> 00:19:11,885
What's your experience with loss like, this is
gonna impact the way it feels like a hundred.
353
00:19:11,885 --> 00:19:17,695
You can't really, the genericness generic list, they
add some value for kind of fundamental things, but like.
354
00:19:18,762 --> 00:19:24,407
So much more of fit really does go with what is my,
speaking of myself, my personal history, and Right.
355
00:19:24,582 --> 00:19:26,982
How do you feel like you can step into that for me?
356
00:19:26,982 --> 00:19:28,122
So you, you're right.
357
00:19:28,122 --> 00:19:36,434
I guess I'm just affirming, like we have to be really thoughtful about
questions that go beyond the handouts and pertain to what's gonna trigger right.
358
00:19:36,434 --> 00:19:38,354
Anxiety for us, or fear or joy.
359
00:19:38,354 --> 00:19:40,274
And how can that doula maybe step into that?
360
00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:43,384
Sarah: Yes, a thousand percent and and you know, sometimes.
361
00:19:43,895 --> 00:19:45,765
Parents will, there'll be like.
362
00:19:46,049 --> 00:19:49,279
This question of, like, what's your birth philosophy or mm-hmm.
363
00:19:50,089 --> 00:19:51,259
Some, sometimes, okay.
364
00:19:51,259 --> 00:19:53,664
I don't know how to really phrase this, but I'll just say my example.
365
00:19:53,664 --> 00:19:53,924
Just say it.
366
00:19:56,419 --> 00:20:01,249
Sometimes there's, I feel like a lot of doulas get into doula work because.
367
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:03,559
It's their passion, right?
368
00:20:03,589 --> 00:20:03,679
Mm-hmm.
369
00:20:04,009 --> 00:20:21,144
They are passionate, like usually it stems from their own birth
experience and like it didn't go well or it did go well or whatever
in the middle, and that spurs them onto like, oh, I wanna be a doula
and help everybody else have this great birth, and that's fantastic.
370
00:20:21,294 --> 00:20:24,051
However, if a doula is.
371
00:20:25,038 --> 00:20:35,233
If, if she's in birth work to try and have everyone
get her ideal birth, that is not a good fit.
372
00:20:35,803 --> 00:20:35,953
Yep.
373
00:20:35,983 --> 00:20:37,123
For anybody, right?
374
00:20:37,123 --> 00:20:37,633
For anyone?
375
00:20:37,693 --> 00:20:37,933
Nope.
376
00:20:37,993 --> 00:20:38,263
Yeah.
377
00:20:38,263 --> 00:20:45,283
So like maybe you're, maybe this doula you're
interviewing thinks like a home birth is the best thing.
378
00:20:45,283 --> 00:20:46,723
Like that's her ideal birth.
379
00:20:46,728 --> 00:20:47,038
Mm-hmm.
380
00:20:47,138 --> 00:20:47,473
Lo: But that
381
00:20:47,473 --> 00:20:50,158
Sarah: might not be your ideal birth, and it's okay to have.
382
00:20:50,908 --> 00:20:59,248
Differences and not like everyone's gonna have their personal preference on
how they want a birth that doesn't, that doesn't extend to everyone else.
383
00:20:59,278 --> 00:20:59,368
Mm-hmm.
384
00:20:59,608 --> 00:21:13,468
So I think somehow gathering how you can find out, are they passionate for you to get
the birth that you want and help you figure out, even if that looks different from there.
385
00:21:13,798 --> 00:21:14,248
Mm-hmm.
386
00:21:14,446 --> 00:21:15,916
You know, for per perfect birth.
387
00:21:16,186 --> 00:21:17,086
Lo: Yeah, I like it.
388
00:21:17,086 --> 00:21:29,690
I talk about that a lot related to my own education in my course, because I'll
tell people, students all the time, like the thing, I feel like the things I
teach or the way I teach, they're not the ones that are gonna go viral, right?
389
00:21:29,690 --> 00:21:32,210
Like there's not this bias or this slant or this.
390
00:21:32,346 --> 00:21:41,136
I'm gonna use the word aggression like, but this aggressive movement towards this
one specific experience, because I don't get to decide what ideal means for you.
391
00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:41,466
Right.
392
00:21:41,496 --> 00:21:47,646
Nor does your doula, we, I'm certain that Sarah, you have
your own idea of ideal birth and that, so do I, right?
393
00:21:47,646 --> 00:21:50,586
I, my guess is ours aren't even exactly the same.
394
00:21:50,586 --> 00:21:50,676
Right.
395
00:21:51,036 --> 00:21:52,536
But we don't get to put that.
396
00:21:53,161 --> 00:21:55,681
On our students or our clients, like you're saying.
397
00:21:55,681 --> 00:22:06,871
So our job, like you're saying, is to say, Hey, tell me what your ideal is and
I'm gonna work like hell to help you achieve what feels right for you guys.
398
00:22:06,871 --> 00:22:10,141
Yeah, and I would agree that a lot of birth providers.
399
00:22:10,686 --> 00:22:14,466
Across the spectrum, like from doula to OB and everything in between.
400
00:22:15,066 --> 00:22:25,356
We likely bring our stories in maybe too much sometimes and, and, and it's such good
important work to keep like the client's ideal centered and it can be really hard.
401
00:22:25,506 --> 00:22:26,016
Sarah: Yes.
402
00:22:26,496 --> 00:22:26,766
Yeah.
403
00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:27,696
No, I totally agree.
404
00:22:27,696 --> 00:22:35,737
And I think even, and this is a whole nother subject, but I think even
sometimes like doula trainings are not, are not great at that, like mm-hmm.
405
00:22:35,817 --> 00:22:37,737
Even the training that they take can be biased.
406
00:22:39,167 --> 00:22:40,247
And that's a problem.
407
00:22:40,817 --> 00:22:41,147
Yeah.
408
00:22:41,687 --> 00:22:47,597
Lo: So I, that kind of like brings me into this other thing
that, and maybe you can say no, that's not that pervasive.
409
00:22:47,597 --> 00:22:48,767
So it's not that big of a deal.
410
00:22:48,807 --> 00:22:55,221
But I do think sometimes there's this mental mentality
or narrative that doulas, they're gonna fight for you.
411
00:22:55,221 --> 00:22:55,581
Right?
412
00:22:55,581 --> 00:22:59,031
Or they're gonna, they know how to fight provider like that.
413
00:22:59,031 --> 00:23:02,321
There's just this, kind of underlying sentiment of.
414
00:23:02,671 --> 00:23:06,871
The system is gonna wreck you, but I'm gonna help them not wreck you.
415
00:23:06,871 --> 00:23:12,151
And I'm willing to fight and I think a doula should be willing to, to step in and help.
416
00:23:12,391 --> 00:23:12,511
Mm-hmm.
417
00:23:12,571 --> 00:23:14,351
Like you're talking about earlier in in, yeah.
418
00:23:14,351 --> 00:23:18,411
In a way I think that is done well appropriate, but yeah.
419
00:23:18,411 --> 00:23:21,171
What, I guess, how do you kind of get around that narrative?
420
00:23:21,171 --> 00:23:26,091
Like I know you're not a doula who practices that way
of like, I'll fight and I'm aggressive, or whatever.
421
00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:27,696
What, however you wanna say that.
422
00:23:27,936 --> 00:23:27,996
Yeah.
423
00:23:27,996 --> 00:23:32,856
And so how do you kind of get around that with a client and kind of address
424
00:23:33,306 --> 00:23:33,456
Sarah: Yeah.
425
00:23:33,456 --> 00:23:33,726
That
426
00:23:33,726 --> 00:23:36,246
Lo: or even publicly on your platform if you're teaching.
427
00:23:36,647 --> 00:23:36,917
Sarah: Yeah.
428
00:23:36,917 --> 00:23:45,385
So I mean, I think, yes, that is, a lot of doulas come out
of their training, kind of like the system is be, is evil.
429
00:23:45,385 --> 00:23:48,115
It's going to not be, you know, they're against us.
430
00:23:48,145 --> 00:23:48,235
Mm-hmm.
431
00:23:48,475 --> 00:23:50,065
And we're fighting for this.
432
00:23:50,245 --> 00:23:50,635
Lo: Mm-hmm.
433
00:23:50,905 --> 00:23:51,985
Sarah: That is not.
434
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,140
Helpful usually for someone's birth experience, right?
435
00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:56,380
Lo: Mm-hmm.
436
00:23:56,860 --> 00:24:03,236
Sarah: My goal as your doula is to make your experience more positive.
437
00:24:03,686 --> 00:24:03,806
Lo: Mm-hmm.
438
00:24:04,046 --> 00:24:09,896
Sarah: And I want you to have like a good day
and have happy memories and not be traumatized.
439
00:24:09,896 --> 00:24:10,256
Right?
440
00:24:10,646 --> 00:24:13,016
That is kind of my, like underlying sounds so simple,
441
00:24:13,016 --> 00:24:13,376
Lo: right?
442
00:24:13,376 --> 00:24:13,916
But yes.
443
00:24:15,236 --> 00:24:18,726
Sarah: And and of course that again is gonna look different for everyone, right?
444
00:24:18,726 --> 00:24:19,026
Yeah.
445
00:24:19,116 --> 00:24:20,016
Because everyone.
446
00:24:20,391 --> 00:24:28,221
Some people love their doctors and their hospital systems of, of even like
highly intervention and some people that is the last thing that they want.
447
00:24:28,221 --> 00:24:33,561
And so I have to adapt to fit with what my client wants.
448
00:24:33,754 --> 00:24:44,074
But I do think going into this, the medical system, feeling like
I am, we're against them and we're fighting for something is not.
449
00:24:44,283 --> 00:24:45,033
Helpful.
450
00:24:45,033 --> 00:24:46,113
It's just not like
451
00:24:46,113 --> 00:24:46,683
Lo: mm-hmm.
452
00:24:46,863 --> 00:24:48,393
Sarah: I wanna work with them.
453
00:24:48,693 --> 00:24:52,533
I want them to like doulas and see the value in doulas.
454
00:24:52,533 --> 00:24:52,543
Mm-hmm.
455
00:24:53,013 --> 00:25:03,676
And if I'm fighting them or like causing a, I mean, obviously
if I'm causing conflict that the parents are gonna notice that
and that is like tainting their birth story in a negative light.
456
00:25:03,681 --> 00:25:03,801
Mm-hmm.
457
00:25:03,886 --> 00:25:04,276
I think.
458
00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:08,596
And so if there's something that, that I think really needs to like.
459
00:25:08,806 --> 00:25:12,136
I've maybe done this twice or three times ever.
460
00:25:12,136 --> 00:25:13,276
So this is not common.
461
00:25:13,576 --> 00:25:20,896
But sometimes I might like talk to a nurse out in the hallway or even talk to a provider
out in the hallway and that's, that's because I don't wanna do it in front of the parents.
462
00:25:21,016 --> 00:25:21,346
Yeah.
463
00:25:21,616 --> 00:25:21,946
Yeah.
464
00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:28,996
So I think, I don't know if I'm even answering
your question, but I think I, as a doula want to.
465
00:25:29,188 --> 00:25:32,818
Paint doulas in a good light to the medical staff.
466
00:25:33,118 --> 00:25:40,618
I want them to trust us because there are good doulas out there who
are, we're doing our jobs correctly, and we're not like interfering.
467
00:25:40,618 --> 00:25:40,708
Mm-hmm.
468
00:25:41,378 --> 00:25:44,288
And I want the, I want the medical personnel to know that.
469
00:25:44,293 --> 00:25:44,583
Mm-hmm.
470
00:25:44,893 --> 00:25:45,183
Lo: Yeah.
471
00:25:46,103 --> 00:25:51,413
It's no different than, you know, you just said there
are good doulas out there and there are bad ones.
472
00:25:51,443 --> 00:25:54,413
Yeah, there are, and there are good midwives and there are bad ones.
473
00:25:54,418 --> 00:25:54,568
Right.
474
00:25:54,713 --> 00:25:56,453
And there are good nurses and there are bad ones.
475
00:25:56,453 --> 00:25:58,163
And you know, we could keep going forever.
476
00:25:58,313 --> 00:26:09,743
so I think that's kind of true for so many of us, especially if we
have a platform where we're also trying to teach and educate while
doing whatever work in our real day to day too, is dancing that.
477
00:26:10,298 --> 00:26:16,748
That dance of like, Hey, this, this is actually,
this is the expectation of care you should have.
478
00:26:16,748 --> 00:26:17,978
So yeah, fight for this.
479
00:26:17,978 --> 00:26:19,958
Like you don't have to settle for less.
480
00:26:20,438 --> 00:26:22,328
But then also kind of walking that line of.
481
00:26:23,333 --> 00:26:27,503
This is actually not the way it's supposed to be, and I disagree with this.
482
00:26:27,533 --> 00:26:37,493
And I want you to have a good picture of what, like, I'll use the word
like a healthy, you know, relationship with your provider looks like, or
a healthy relationship with your doula looks like, or a healthy approach.
483
00:26:37,523 --> 00:26:45,533
Like, it's just, it can feel like such a battle to present
yourself, but also to to say like, I'm in this world.
484
00:26:45,683 --> 00:26:46,613
This feels biblical.
485
00:26:46,613 --> 00:26:49,733
It doesn't mean to be in this world, but not of the world like this.
486
00:26:50,318 --> 00:26:52,268
This is practice that I believe in.
487
00:26:52,358 --> 00:26:56,928
This is how I do it, and this is what I, I think is true about doula work or whatever.
488
00:26:56,928 --> 00:26:57,018
Right.
489
00:26:57,018 --> 00:26:57,438
Gosh.
490
00:26:57,438 --> 00:26:57,768
Yeah.
491
00:26:57,918 --> 00:26:58,338
Go ahead.
492
00:26:58,338 --> 00:26:59,088
You were gonna say something?
493
00:26:59,178 --> 00:26:59,328
Yeah.
494
00:26:59,328 --> 00:26:59,723
No, I
495
00:26:59,723 --> 00:27:00,603
Sarah: was just gonna say, it's hard.
496
00:27:00,618 --> 00:27:06,468
It's like me going in knowing like, I wanna paint us
in a good picture and I wanna get along with your team.
497
00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:09,498
I wanna work with them, not against them.
498
00:27:09,558 --> 00:27:09,858
Yeah.
499
00:27:10,135 --> 00:27:14,693
But that doesn't mean that I'm gonna just go in and like agree with everything.
500
00:27:15,473 --> 00:27:15,783
It doesn't mean Right.
501
00:27:15,783 --> 00:27:16,308
You're not just gonna roll over.
502
00:27:16,488 --> 00:27:17,153
That's not your
503
00:27:17,153 --> 00:27:17,393
Lo: job.
504
00:27:17,393 --> 00:27:18,053
Exactly.
505
00:27:18,113 --> 00:27:18,383
Right.
506
00:27:18,568 --> 00:27:19,163
Sarah: So yeah,
507
00:27:19,403 --> 00:27:19,643
Lo: there's
508
00:27:19,643 --> 00:27:20,453
Sarah: a way to do it.
509
00:27:20,453 --> 00:27:21,533
Well, it is.
510
00:27:21,623 --> 00:27:23,213
It can be like a learned skill.
511
00:27:23,663 --> 00:27:23,933
Lo: Yeah.
512
00:27:24,173 --> 00:27:34,313
Oh, I think it is for all of us, whether that's a nurse or a doula like, but especially
when, you know, our system has a provider, again, above the nurse and the doula.
513
00:27:34,718 --> 00:27:37,508
Good reason these delivering providers know more skills, et cetera.
514
00:27:37,928 --> 00:27:43,418
But that automatically puts you like under somebody.
515
00:27:43,418 --> 00:27:48,188
So then it is that, you know, respectful communication, informed conversations.
516
00:27:48,188 --> 00:27:55,618
These all flow from typically a healthy space where everyone is treating
each other well, honoring what everyone knows and brings to the table.
517
00:27:55,618 --> 00:27:57,298
But there are those kind of.
518
00:27:58,528 --> 00:28:00,148
Like that hierarchy does exist.
519
00:28:00,148 --> 00:28:07,138
And so learning to navigate that and where, where you are in
that, but also being confident to help your family, right.
520
00:28:07,138 --> 00:28:08,068
Kind of move through that.
521
00:28:08,218 --> 00:28:08,548
Yeah.
522
00:28:08,548 --> 00:28:09,238
Just tough.
523
00:28:09,268 --> 00:28:14,008
I, I don't know that there's a question in that
either, but It is, it is a dance for you guys for sure.
524
00:28:14,218 --> 00:28:14,548
Sarah: Yeah.
525
00:28:14,548 --> 00:28:24,258
So, I recently, I don't know if you saw this too, and I don't
even know who said it, but there was somebody on Instagram or
social media that said, and she was at OB I think, and she said.
526
00:28:24,443 --> 00:28:41,226
Recently that she thinks doulas should be like, held accountable for giving, you know,
medical advice or, teaching their clients about like the pros and the cons, or giving
them a, a say in like, maybe we should go this way or not that way, or whatever.
527
00:28:41,356 --> 00:28:43,576
And that was, did you hear that?
528
00:28:43,636 --> 00:28:44,176
Did you see that?
529
00:28:44,176 --> 00:28:45,256
No, but I'm going,
530
00:28:45,496 --> 00:28:48,766
Lo: I'm assuming this is like negative towards doulas, right?
531
00:28:48,916 --> 00:28:52,426
Well, yeah, it is because she's like that you're messing things up, causing bad
532
00:28:52,426 --> 00:28:53,146
Sarah: outcome.
533
00:28:53,146 --> 00:28:53,566
Yeah.
534
00:28:53,571 --> 00:28:53,591
Yeah.
535
00:28:53,596 --> 00:28:54,511
Because you're not a doctor.
536
00:28:54,611 --> 00:28:56,386
And so is that not our job?
537
00:28:56,386 --> 00:28:57,311
Is that not your job?
538
00:28:57,616 --> 00:29:06,376
Well, the problem is is that like, and I get where what she's saying, like if, if
you're telling your client really terrible advice, that is gonna be like detrimental.
539
00:29:06,376 --> 00:29:07,876
Like that's not cool.
540
00:29:08,176 --> 00:29:11,716
Probably that doula actually doesn't know what she's doing.
541
00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:12,016
Right?
542
00:29:12,021 --> 00:29:12,946
Yeah, yeah.
543
00:29:13,006 --> 00:29:20,319
But on the other hand, it's making it so that the
OB is just the final, like you're final, final say.
544
00:29:20,324 --> 00:29:20,704
Mm-hmm.
545
00:29:20,784 --> 00:29:21,184
Because that's.
546
00:29:21,849 --> 00:29:22,689
That's not cool.
547
00:29:22,694 --> 00:29:22,814
Mm-hmm.
548
00:29:22,899 --> 00:29:22,909
Mm-hmm.
549
00:29:24,309 --> 00:29:24,669
Yeah.
550
00:29:25,389 --> 00:29:25,659
Yeah.
551
00:29:25,659 --> 00:29:30,039
It's, it's social media's we, gosh, we can't question you or Right.
552
00:29:30,129 --> 00:29:32,859
Have other that's, you know, I don't like that.
553
00:29:33,399 --> 00:29:33,849
Lo: Yeah.
554
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:37,719
I feel like social media has changed these conversations so much because.
555
00:29:37,866 --> 00:29:43,516
Maybe a lot of people aren't aware of this because they don't
follow like obs and midwives and nurses probably like you and I do.
556
00:29:43,996 --> 00:29:52,546
But you do see these like in the cloud happening attacks
of like obs versus doulas or obs calling out nurses.
557
00:29:53,191 --> 00:29:54,331
It goes the other direction too.
558
00:29:54,361 --> 00:29:54,541
Yeah, right.
559
00:29:54,541 --> 00:29:55,681
Like, don't get me wrong, I'm sorry.
560
00:29:55,681 --> 00:30:00,721
I'm sounding very slanted and the nurses like
calling out obs and everyone's up here like arguing.
561
00:30:00,721 --> 00:30:15,631
But gosh, we have to think about that trickle down because what about the lay person
who is seeing this and, and it just, I just feel, I guess, I guess ultimately I just
say I kind of hate that, that these public forums and arguments are playing out.
562
00:30:16,056 --> 00:30:20,616
And we think maybe we're winning our point with some doula we're arguing with online.
563
00:30:20,856 --> 00:30:23,436
But what about everyone following that doula and that nurse, right?
564
00:30:23,646 --> 00:30:27,096
And now they're like, gosh, these providers don't get along this system.
565
00:30:27,096 --> 00:30:28,416
They're all gonna fight with each other.
566
00:30:28,416 --> 00:30:30,996
I don't know who to listen to because this one's being rooted.
567
00:30:30,996 --> 00:30:33,996
This like, there's such an impact on, right?
568
00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:41,616
These public conversations that we're having, including this one, I get it,
that you and I are having right now on a podcast, but I just don't know that.
569
00:30:42,426 --> 00:30:49,296
We're thoughtful enough or that it's even possible to keep
boundaries around these back and forth combos that are happening.
570
00:30:49,296 --> 00:30:51,996
So we're putting a lot of, I don't wanna say responsibility.
571
00:30:51,996 --> 00:31:03,400
Our, our patients and clients can handle education, but they're just
getting a lot of inputs and some that they don't necessarily need when
they're seeing these kind of arguments and attacks and things play out.
572
00:31:04,165 --> 00:31:08,635
I just don't know that that's adding value to their experience,
but they're definitely, it's getting put in front of them.
573
00:31:08,635 --> 00:31:08,725
Right?
574
00:31:08,995 --> 00:31:09,235
Sarah: Yeah.
575
00:31:09,235 --> 00:31:16,238
And I think, like, honestly, the big question, and this goes for
everybody, like doulas, nurses, obs, it's like, who is this about?
576
00:31:16,238 --> 00:31:17,498
Like this is the parents.
577
00:31:17,828 --> 00:31:17,888
Yeah.
578
00:31:17,888 --> 00:31:19,448
Like it's their experience.
579
00:31:19,568 --> 00:31:20,648
Give them their options.
580
00:31:20,648 --> 00:31:23,588
Let them choose even if it's not what you would choose, like Yep.
581
00:31:23,768 --> 00:31:25,658
That's really what this is all about.
582
00:31:26,258 --> 00:31:26,468
Lo: Yep.
583
00:31:26,888 --> 00:31:27,488
It's perfect.
584
00:31:27,488 --> 00:31:28,298
I mean, it really is.
585
00:31:28,298 --> 00:31:33,938
It's so basic and somehow it's gotten a lot really
complicated, but that is a hundred percent the truth.
586
00:31:33,998 --> 00:31:35,678
Give them their options and let them choose.
587
00:31:35,678 --> 00:31:35,768
Right?
588
00:31:36,038 --> 00:31:39,098
Like we should be able to trust them with that.
589
00:31:39,188 --> 00:31:39,278
Right.
590
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:44,828
They're going to be parents and raise that tiny life,
like they can be responsible for making choices, you know?
591
00:31:44,948 --> 00:31:45,278
Sarah: Right.
592
00:31:45,578 --> 00:31:46,838
Lo: So, okay.
593
00:31:46,838 --> 00:31:49,208
That, I wanna talk about one last thing with you.
594
00:31:49,208 --> 00:31:49,298
Yes.
595
00:31:49,448 --> 00:31:53,888
That's kind of related to this social media thing we've been talking about as well.
596
00:31:54,338 --> 00:31:54,848
So.
597
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:05,230
Sarah and I had been texting a while ago because there was a post
that went up from a doula, and I'm sure, I know when Sarah saw it,
she was probably annoyed because it was part of this like, oh, great.
598
00:32:05,230 --> 00:32:08,226
Now I wanna go and speak to what this doula had said.
599
00:32:08,226 --> 00:32:25,173
But essentially the doula had shared a post, and on one of the slides,
you can add more to this, if you, onto one of the slides, basically had
suggested that lying to your provider, is an appropriate choice or like an
option, like just lie to them about what time your water's broke, right?
600
00:32:25,203 --> 00:32:27,276
And, like that that is your right.
601
00:32:27,276 --> 00:32:32,256
And so there was different options, she said, but she included very clearly that lying.
602
00:32:32,523 --> 00:32:33,783
is is your right?
603
00:32:33,783 --> 00:32:37,803
I guess I'm sitting here going, well, it is your
right technically, but it was a suggestion, right?
604
00:32:37,803 --> 00:32:38,403
Like right.
605
00:32:38,403 --> 00:32:39,873
Hey, lying is a possibility.
606
00:32:39,963 --> 00:32:42,123
Here's an option I'm gonna give for you, is to lie.
607
00:32:42,513 --> 00:32:47,373
So I don't have a question in that, but I know
that you had feelings about it and you went live.
608
00:32:47,373 --> 00:32:47,433
Yeah.
609
00:32:47,463 --> 00:32:50,013
So speak to us a little bit about that.
610
00:32:50,013 --> 00:32:50,133
I
611
00:32:50,133 --> 00:32:52,868
Sarah: mean, she, she literally was saying, you know, like.
612
00:32:54,928 --> 00:32:58,178
So it was something about like, autonomy, like
613
00:32:58,178 --> 00:32:58,808
mm-hmm.
614
00:32:59,108 --> 00:33:03,428
Sarah: Once you give that up, like once you tell them the truth that your water has broken
615
00:33:03,758 --> 00:33:03,848
mm-hmm.
616
00:33:04,088 --> 00:33:04,238
You
617
00:33:04,388 --> 00:33:10,993
Sarah: are giving up your autonomy to like, make decisions and
it's gonna change the trajectory of your labor and birth and.
618
00:33:12,533 --> 00:33:14,693
No, that's not, that's not true.
619
00:33:15,593 --> 00:33:20,213
You can still have your autonomy even if you've given all the facts.
620
00:33:20,363 --> 00:33:20,483
Mm-hmm.
621
00:33:20,833 --> 00:33:30,073
And yes, that might be look different than how they were hoping or have more
conversations than you wanted to have or feel more like an uphill battle.
622
00:33:30,073 --> 00:33:34,063
But ultimately the decision is still up to the parents.
623
00:33:34,063 --> 00:33:35,888
Like providers cannot force you to do.
624
00:33:36,958 --> 00:33:37,708
Anything.
625
00:33:38,098 --> 00:33:38,218
Lo: Mm-hmm.
626
00:33:38,878 --> 00:33:41,788
Sarah: But I also just think that's bad advice in general.
627
00:33:41,788 --> 00:33:41,968
Right?
628
00:33:42,028 --> 00:33:48,658
Because there're, you know, Yik like, yes, most of the
time it's fine to stay home after your water's broken.
629
00:33:48,658 --> 00:33:50,968
Like, I think 90, of course, 95% of the time.
630
00:33:50,968 --> 00:33:51,598
I think that's fine.
631
00:33:52,108 --> 00:34:00,538
But like you don't know if this person's in that 5% and maybe
something bad is gonna happen because you didn't give that information.
632
00:34:00,538 --> 00:34:01,528
And I'm always.
633
00:34:01,841 --> 00:34:09,271
I'm always, especially on this topic, like I'm the doula who will tell
people, if you think your water broke, like just text me, call me.
634
00:34:09,301 --> 00:34:11,101
Like, I'll help you figure it out.
635
00:34:11,251 --> 00:34:11,341
Mm-hmm.
636
00:34:11,581 --> 00:34:17,581
And like if you're meeting the, the healthy milestones
of like, it's clear and it doesn't smell bad.
637
00:34:17,581 --> 00:34:18,121
Bad, yeah.
638
00:34:18,121 --> 00:34:19,946
Your baby's moving and all these things like it's.
639
00:34:20,971 --> 00:34:21,481
It's fine.
640
00:34:21,511 --> 00:34:23,401
Your GBS negative, like it's fine to stay home.
641
00:34:23,401 --> 00:34:23,491
Mm-hmm.
642
00:34:23,911 --> 00:34:36,331
If you want to, you, here's, if you call your provider and tell them like they're
gonna tell you to come in, but also you can still call them and say, no, I
don't wanna come in, or like, I'm gonna totally home for 12 hours or whatever.
643
00:34:36,331 --> 00:34:38,791
You wanna decide what they say.
644
00:34:38,791 --> 00:34:39,421
Does isn't.
645
00:34:39,841 --> 00:34:41,041
You don't have to do it.
646
00:34:41,041 --> 00:34:44,731
Like you can negotiate with them and still tell them the truth, right?
647
00:34:44,851 --> 00:34:44,941
Lo: Mm-hmm.
648
00:34:45,211 --> 00:34:47,671
Sarah: So I'm never, I'm never gonna encourage lying.
649
00:34:48,121 --> 00:34:48,451
Lo: Yeah.
650
00:34:48,751 --> 00:34:49,051
Yeah.
651
00:34:49,261 --> 00:34:51,571
It was interesting because the whole post.
652
00:34:51,776 --> 00:34:55,586
I felt like I agree with like 98% of the rest of it.
653
00:34:55,586 --> 00:34:56,126
Right.
654
00:34:56,366 --> 00:34:59,966
'Cause it is true, you know, a hospital system
kind of puts you on a clock when your water breaks.
655
00:35:00,146 --> 00:35:00,236
Right.
656
00:35:00,236 --> 00:35:06,013
And interventions may then be suggested sooner because that
water has been broken or they want you to come in right away.
657
00:35:06,013 --> 00:35:12,283
Which I can tell you as the receiving nurse, they're, like
you said, we're throwing out this number guys 95% of the time.
658
00:35:12,283 --> 00:35:16,513
But the majority of the time you actually, you do not need to to be there.
659
00:35:16,513 --> 00:35:21,671
Right, right, right away it's just, It's, I'm gonna say the
way we talking about the system's, the way we like it, right?
660
00:35:21,671 --> 00:35:28,511
We can check on the baby, we can do a quick monitoring, and, and once you're
there, you're stay in if your water's broken until you've had your baby.
661
00:35:28,511 --> 00:35:31,046
So I think it, it's just a way to exercise some.
662
00:35:31,163 --> 00:35:36,773
Some control and know, okay, this mom's water's broken,
she's here and she'll have her baby, you know, at some point.
663
00:35:36,773 --> 00:35:38,686
And so I don't wanna say none of that's so true.
664
00:35:38,686 --> 00:35:39,406
It is true.
665
00:35:39,556 --> 00:35:49,137
You and I have both seen all those things play out, but with that
post specifically, I think it was like the second that it said,
just lie about the time your water broke and like that then.
666
00:35:49,962 --> 00:35:50,862
This entire thing.
667
00:35:50,862 --> 00:35:51,612
I'm like, stop.
668
00:35:52,122 --> 00:35:54,850
Like this is something I felt like back away from.
669
00:35:55,008 --> 00:36:00,498
There should not be a relationship with a provider
in which you have to lie to them to navigate it.
670
00:36:00,558 --> 00:36:10,938
There are so many other options, especially like you just said, like you can see what they
say and you do not have to take their advice or the suggestion like that's your autonomy.
671
00:36:10,938 --> 00:36:13,218
That's a powerful step to say, thank you.
672
00:36:13,428 --> 00:36:16,218
I'll come in in 12 hours, or I'll call you back in eight, or whatever.
673
00:36:16,278 --> 00:36:16,518
Right.
674
00:36:17,013 --> 00:36:18,513
But lying Yeah.
675
00:36:18,513 --> 00:36:22,190
Is just such a, a, a shaky foundation.
676
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:24,110
And there's so many more choices.
677
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:26,150
Assuming this is, you're gonna the hospital mm-hmm.
678
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:29,090
And you're gonna finish your process there with them.
679
00:36:29,090 --> 00:36:34,377
Like, if that's what we're doing, if that's what
we're even encouraging as a choice, I don't know.
680
00:36:34,377 --> 00:36:41,337
It just feels like, gosh, yeah, too bad we can't back up and fix and
correct this way before we got to this point where we think lying should be
681
00:36:41,547 --> 00:36:41,787
Sarah: Yeah.
682
00:36:41,877 --> 00:36:42,027
An
683
00:36:42,027 --> 00:36:42,537
Lo: option for sure.
684
00:36:42,717 --> 00:36:42,987
Sarah: Yeah.
685
00:36:43,047 --> 00:36:44,367
Lo: And then I would say clinically too, like.
686
00:36:45,015 --> 00:36:47,265
I am not someone who says, rush to the hospital.
687
00:36:47,265 --> 00:36:53,415
I waited till the last second to go to the hospital with all of my
children and almost waited too late for two of them, and it was very.
688
00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:54,870
Exciting.
689
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,250
So I don't think you should rush to the hospital,
especially if you want unmedicated birth, you know?
690
00:36:59,250 --> 00:36:59,400
Right.
691
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,070
A thousand, just interventions and interruptions that happen.
692
00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:02,610
It's just true.
693
00:37:03,210 --> 00:37:16,080
But we need to know what time your water broke, because let's say it is 32 hours
down the road, like there are some significant risks that can come into play
specifically based on the time, amount of time your waters have been broken.
694
00:37:16,170 --> 00:37:16,440
Sarah: Right.
695
00:37:16,755 --> 00:37:20,445
Lo: Like, why are we going to suggest lying about a number like that?
696
00:37:20,505 --> 00:37:23,085
We can suggest autonomy after that choice.
697
00:37:23,175 --> 00:37:23,475
Sarah: Right.
698
00:37:23,685 --> 00:37:28,545
Lo: But to suggest that I'm like, that felt wild to me as I know it did to you too.
699
00:37:28,545 --> 00:37:44,132
Yeah, and I think ultimately trying to, like back to the dual conversation,
I think it's frustrating to see a provider that you share, like you're
a doula as well, and then you think, oh gosh, it's super frustrating to
have a doula say this or share this when you disagree with what's Yeah.
700
00:37:44,842 --> 00:37:45,112
Shared.
701
00:37:45,232 --> 00:37:46,612
Then you feel like you're correcting.
702
00:37:46,617 --> 00:37:48,502
Sarah: I don't, well, and I don't know who's reading that.
703
00:37:48,772 --> 00:37:49,372
Oh yeah.
704
00:37:49,462 --> 00:37:54,712
Labor and delivery nurses, obs and then they're thinking,
oh, doulas are just encouraging our patients to lie.
705
00:37:54,712 --> 00:37:55,882
Well then to lie, yeah.
706
00:37:55,882 --> 00:37:58,192
They don't like us because then they're Yes.
707
00:37:58,342 --> 00:37:58,747
You know?
708
00:37:59,632 --> 00:38:00,022
Lo: Yes.
709
00:38:00,112 --> 00:38:00,502
Yeah.
710
00:38:01,012 --> 00:38:02,092
And again, that's fact.
711
00:38:02,092 --> 00:38:03,922
We already talked about this, but that's social media thing.
712
00:38:03,922 --> 00:38:08,128
It has kind of like brought some of these relationships very public.
713
00:38:08,158 --> 00:38:08,248
Mm-hmm.
714
00:38:08,728 --> 00:38:08,968
And it's
715
00:38:08,968 --> 00:38:12,088
both good and bad and value and not valuable, but.
716
00:38:12,823 --> 00:38:21,133
I do think it can be complicated 'cause you feel like I wanna do
my doula work and I wanna do it well, but shoot, now I have to
get online and correct all these things that are happening online.
717
00:38:22,603 --> 00:38:22,753
Yes.
718
00:38:22,753 --> 00:38:23,473
Too much work.
719
00:38:23,623 --> 00:38:24,463
It's too much value.
720
00:38:24,643 --> 00:38:24,763
I'll
721
00:38:24,763 --> 00:38:33,127
Sarah: say I do, I love, one of our local hospitals is
so great and they have a super large, midwifery practice.
722
00:38:33,277 --> 00:38:33,367
Lo: Mm-hmm.
723
00:38:33,607 --> 00:38:34,927
Sarah: And those midwives.
724
00:38:35,332 --> 00:38:43,692
See a lot a, a huge amount of births, but, they will let a
mom stay home, will let wait, they will let a mom stay home.
725
00:38:43,697 --> 00:38:47,772
They're, they're comfortable with up to 20, for up to 24 hours after her water has broken.
726
00:38:47,892 --> 00:38:52,392
Even if she's GBS positive, they'll have her come in
That's awesome for antibiotics and then they go back home.
727
00:38:52,422 --> 00:38:52,722
Mm-hmm.
728
00:38:52,728 --> 00:38:53,097
Mm-hmm.
729
00:38:53,382 --> 00:38:55,722
Like that is how everywhere should be.
730
00:38:56,142 --> 00:38:56,442
Lo: Yeah.
731
00:38:56,832 --> 00:38:59,702
Yeah, my girlfriends who have delivered out birth centers out here, same.
732
00:38:59,702 --> 00:39:01,382
And she's been GBS positive with some of them.
733
00:39:01,442 --> 00:39:05,732
And I think I actually love considering, Hey, how does a birth center handle this?
734
00:39:05,942 --> 00:39:09,332
Even if you're in a hospital or that's where you
wanna be, how does a birth center handle this?
735
00:39:10,082 --> 00:39:12,512
How do other countries handle this?
736
00:39:12,512 --> 00:39:19,905
Like it's, you're talking about digging deep in education and a lot of times
I think courses and stuff will say, Hey, also this is what, you know, like.
737
00:39:20,835 --> 00:39:27,975
Royal College in the UK says, and that stuff's actually really valuable
because you're not just going on a whim saying, well, I'm good with 24 hours.
738
00:39:27,975 --> 00:39:28,065
Right.
739
00:39:28,065 --> 00:39:30,525
It's like if another country's practicing something.
740
00:39:30,765 --> 00:39:30,915
Yeah.
741
00:39:31,065 --> 00:39:38,385
They feel really comfortable about the evidence in place to practice
that way, which means you can check that out and lean into it as well.
742
00:39:38,385 --> 00:39:38,415
Well, and I,
743
00:39:39,015 --> 00:39:45,675
Sarah: and I will say that to my clients, like if they're seeing a, a more high risk OB
at a different hospital, who wants 'em to come in like right away if their water breaks?
744
00:39:45,675 --> 00:39:46,725
I tell them like.
745
00:39:47,715 --> 00:39:53,925
Well, you know, obviously I'm not a provider, but
you know, these midwives at this hospital mm-hmm.
746
00:39:54,165 --> 00:39:56,175
Will let you stay home for 24 hours.
747
00:39:56,325 --> 00:39:56,415
Mm-hmm.
748
00:39:56,655 --> 00:39:59,415
Like it, if you were their patient, they would be fine with that.
749
00:39:59,420 --> 00:39:59,500
Mm-hmm.
750
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:02,655
And so that tells me it's not really all that risky.
751
00:40:03,345 --> 00:40:03,435
Mm-hmm.
752
00:40:03,735 --> 00:40:06,435
You know, if other providers are practicing that way.
753
00:40:06,435 --> 00:40:06,525
Mm-hmm.
754
00:40:06,525 --> 00:40:07,155
And so mm-hmm.
755
00:40:07,395 --> 00:40:13,125
Like, I hear that this is what your doctor's
saying, but just know that that is kind of on the.
756
00:40:13,545 --> 00:40:15,280
Very conservative side of mm-hmm.
757
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:15,370
Mm-hmm.
758
00:40:15,585 --> 00:40:16,665
Recommendations.
759
00:40:16,725 --> 00:40:18,840
So I think that's all just like good in info.
760
00:40:18,915 --> 00:40:20,355
Info for, yeah.
761
00:40:20,655 --> 00:40:23,085
For like how you tell your clients that stuff.
762
00:40:23,535 --> 00:40:25,695
Lo: Well, and that goes back to what you said when we started, right?
763
00:40:25,695 --> 00:40:28,185
Like there's a spectrum here for all of this.
764
00:40:28,215 --> 00:40:35,440
I know we're talking specifically about water breaking, but a lot of these
choices about when to go in or what to do next or when to start meds or when to.
765
00:40:36,075 --> 00:40:44,355
Call failure to progress or whatever, like, obviously are so incredibly
talented, valuable, many of them have delivered so many babies.
766
00:40:44,385 --> 00:40:46,575
But I think it's understanding like their.
767
00:40:46,835 --> 00:40:48,365
In this spot on the spectrum.
768
00:40:48,515 --> 00:40:48,875
Yes.
769
00:40:48,875 --> 00:40:49,835
They know me personally.
770
00:40:49,835 --> 00:40:52,295
And that matters too, like what is my health history?
771
00:40:52,295 --> 00:40:55,055
'cause I can't just compare myself to the woman next door.
772
00:40:55,235 --> 00:40:55,325
Sarah: Yes.
773
00:40:55,685 --> 00:41:01,055
Lo: And so I think that's why like your job saying like, here's the whole spectrum.
774
00:41:01,175 --> 00:41:01,265
Mm-hmm.
775
00:41:01,505 --> 00:41:09,555
Here's A, B, C, D, E, and F. Provider suggesting F, you're
allowed to look at these other ones and then decide.
776
00:41:09,555 --> 00:41:21,585
You know, what feels right is, again, just such the value of a doula is just making
sure that you keep reopening that conversation so that your clients always do know.
777
00:41:21,723 --> 00:41:23,043
This is a suggestion.
778
00:41:23,193 --> 00:41:24,513
This is another way it can be done.
779
00:41:24,513 --> 00:41:25,743
This is another way it can be done.
780
00:41:25,743 --> 00:41:27,093
And then I get to decide.
781
00:41:27,183 --> 00:41:27,423
Right?
782
00:41:27,753 --> 00:41:32,013
Lo: And birth, especially if we're talking about
labor and birth moments, everything's so quick.
783
00:41:32,073 --> 00:41:32,163
Mm-hmm.
784
00:41:32,583 --> 00:41:38,313
That the ability to pause and ask for time and space is so, so valuable.
785
00:41:38,313 --> 00:41:42,903
And I think that that is just one of the gifts of you guys in that room is just saying.
786
00:41:44,298 --> 00:41:44,958
Everyone stop.
787
00:41:45,138 --> 00:41:45,498
Pause.
788
00:41:45,798 --> 00:41:46,428
We need a minute.
789
00:41:46,488 --> 00:41:46,518
Uhhuh.
790
00:41:46,818 --> 00:41:47,193
Yeah, Uhhuh.
791
00:41:47,358 --> 00:41:48,558
And who cares what you decide, right?
792
00:41:48,558 --> 00:41:51,768
Maybe your client agrees, but even just saying like, pause.
793
00:41:52,158 --> 00:41:52,278
Yeah.
794
00:41:52,278 --> 00:41:55,548
And then they're gonna leave and then you can agree with them in five minutes.
795
00:41:55,548 --> 00:41:57,393
I just wanna know that you felt like you had a minute.
796
00:41:57,453 --> 00:41:57,673
Yes.
797
00:41:57,888 --> 00:41:58,758
Sarah: A thousand percent.
798
00:41:58,758 --> 00:41:58,818
Yeah.
799
00:41:58,818 --> 00:42:00,318
And that's what I say in my classes.
800
00:42:00,318 --> 00:42:02,898
I'm like, if you, you know, to take that.
801
00:42:03,318 --> 00:42:06,888
Moment to go through like the brain acronym, which I'm sure you're familiar with that.
802
00:42:06,918 --> 00:42:07,338
Lo: Love it.
803
00:42:07,428 --> 00:42:07,878
Teach it.
804
00:42:08,448 --> 00:42:16,878
Sarah: But it's good, you know, if I always say like if you decide to do
exactly the same thing, your provider is like, great, that's great and fine.
805
00:42:16,878 --> 00:42:16,938
Yeah.
806
00:42:17,290 --> 00:42:21,760
But you'll feel different about it if you made sure it was like your decision.
807
00:42:21,765 --> 00:42:22,045
Lo: Mm-hmm.
808
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:45,138
You will know what I'm talking about right now, but in my mind when I think about
my students and sometimes try to like put myself in their place, one, I try to
remove that I'm a labor nurse and just be like, remember if you're just like the
one in the bed and I think about when the nurse turns their eyes and looks at
you, the doctor's at the foot of your bed looking at you, and you have like two to
four pairs of eyes looking at you as the doctor or the midwife, whoever is saying.
809
00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:49,560
Let's go ahead and start some Pitocin, like you've
been laboring for six hours, haven't changed.
810
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,280
And I just think about when you're sitting there
and there's all these professional eyes on you.
811
00:42:53,790 --> 00:42:53,880
Mm-hmm.
812
00:42:54,120 --> 00:43:03,180
But that is the moment where you just need someone if you don't feel comfortable
saying like, can I just have a few minutes with everyone not looking at me?
813
00:43:03,570 --> 00:43:04,740
So I can just think?
814
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:04,890
Yep.
815
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:10,410
Because that, I think about how many times I've been
like looking down at a mom and in my head I think.
816
00:43:11,325 --> 00:43:14,540
I'm there and I'm supportive and whatever, but you're also standing above them, right?
817
00:43:14,545 --> 00:43:14,745
Right.
818
00:43:14,745 --> 00:43:23,576
If they're in the bed and you're literally putting a spotlight
on them, sometimes actually, literally with the spotlight
going and what a crappy position to be in to make any choice.
819
00:43:23,576 --> 00:43:23,666
Right.
820
00:43:23,726 --> 00:43:29,966
Even when you're more than happy with what they're suggesting,
you just don't feel like you are owning it, you know?
821
00:43:30,371 --> 00:43:38,179
So that moment, if you can step into that, if your doula can
step into that and give you those spaces like chef's kiss.
822
00:43:39,739 --> 00:43:39,859
Sarah: Agree.
823
00:43:40,075 --> 00:43:42,595
Lo: Okay, Sarah, let's pause right there.
824
00:43:42,595 --> 00:43:44,815
Although I wanna ask you two quick follow-up things.
825
00:43:44,815 --> 00:43:45,565
One easy.
826
00:43:45,685 --> 00:43:50,845
Where can people find you connect with you if they're local to
the Washington area where you are, maybe even work with you.
827
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:52,360
So share that with me.
828
00:43:52,420 --> 00:43:52,720
Go ahead.
829
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:52,900
Yes,
830
00:43:53,205 --> 00:43:59,725
Sarah: so my, my doula collective website is,
the birth collective, PNW for Pacific Northwest.
831
00:43:59,725 --> 00:43:59,815
Mm-hmm.
832
00:44:00,395 --> 00:44:01,775
That's also our Instagram.
833
00:44:02,215 --> 00:44:06,055
My website and Instagram is the expert doula.
834
00:44:06,595 --> 00:44:06,985
Lo: Mm-hmm.
835
00:44:07,585 --> 00:44:09,085
And Sarah shares some Awesome.
836
00:44:09,115 --> 00:44:11,665
She's a photographer as well, so I love.
837
00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:13,660
Remixing her birth photos.
838
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,520
She's given me full permission to do so.
839
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:15,850
Okay.
840
00:44:15,859 --> 00:44:16,219
Yes, I love it.
841
00:44:16,269 --> 00:44:18,459
And then explaining what we're seeing and what's going on.
842
00:44:18,459 --> 00:44:25,749
'cause she takes some really beautiful photos and I love seeing like the
interventions, if you will, in a photograph so we can break it down and talk about it.
843
00:44:25,779 --> 00:44:28,629
'cause obviously everyone's using different tools.
844
00:44:28,884 --> 00:44:33,054
With a doula and without to, to have their babies and so, so good to see them.
845
00:44:33,054 --> 00:44:40,044
I always say like, when we see birth, we do birth better because so many of
us don't get to see it, and so I know, yeah, it's really valuable to see it.
846
00:44:40,044 --> 00:44:47,184
Sarah's photos are amazing, so definitely check out her personal account
as well, just to see things honestly that maybe you've not seen before.
847
00:44:47,754 --> 00:44:48,024
Okay.
848
00:44:48,024 --> 00:44:49,074
Last question.
849
00:44:49,704 --> 00:44:57,174
You can be as thoughtful as you want about it or just top of
your mind, but what's something right now that is sparking
joy in your life, just bringing you a ton of happiness?
850
00:44:57,329 --> 00:44:59,579
Sarah: Oh, it's bringing me a ton of happiness right now.
851
00:44:59,905 --> 00:45:00,505
Is that your question?
852
00:45:00,505 --> 00:45:00,715
Anything?
853
00:45:01,105 --> 00:45:01,315
Yeah.
854
00:45:01,585 --> 00:45:01,885
Spark
855
00:45:01,885 --> 00:45:02,485
Lo: and joy.
856
00:45:03,175 --> 00:45:03,625
It could be
857
00:45:04,015 --> 00:45:04,465
Sarah: Cheetos.
858
00:45:04,465 --> 00:45:05,275
Lo: It could be your kids.
859
00:45:05,275 --> 00:45:05,695
I don't care.
860
00:45:06,175 --> 00:45:06,925
I don't care
861
00:45:07,135 --> 00:45:07,345
Sarah: anything.
862
00:45:07,345 --> 00:45:08,245
It's not my kids.
863
00:45:08,845 --> 00:45:09,235
Lo: Okay,
864
00:45:09,235 --> 00:45:09,925
Sarah: that's fine too.
865
00:45:11,178 --> 00:45:13,008
I am loving the sun, the weather.
866
00:45:14,073 --> 00:45:14,553
It's great.
867
00:45:14,553 --> 00:45:16,953
Lo: I've had a lot of people saying that this summer.
868
00:45:17,043 --> 00:45:17,193
Yes.
869
00:45:17,193 --> 00:45:18,213
My people are ready.
870
00:45:18,363 --> 00:45:19,923
Sarah: As you know, from living here.
871
00:45:19,923 --> 00:45:22,713
Like the, yeah, the fall, winter, spring is long.
872
00:45:23,163 --> 00:45:24,033
The fall, winter,
873
00:45:24,033 --> 00:45:26,673
Lo: spring, you mean like the 11 months?
874
00:45:26,673 --> 00:45:27,153
It's great.
875
00:45:28,293 --> 00:45:31,083
Sarah: So now it's, it's like the sun is out.
876
00:45:31,353 --> 00:45:32,673
It's like seventies.
877
00:45:32,673 --> 00:45:33,813
It's perfect.
878
00:45:33,813 --> 00:45:34,083
It's,
879
00:45:34,083 --> 00:45:34,563
Lo: it is.
880
00:45:34,713 --> 00:45:36,303
It's, there's nowhere more beautiful.
881
00:45:36,303 --> 00:45:37,233
When it is beautiful.
882
00:45:37,233 --> 00:45:37,863
There it is.
883
00:45:38,698 --> 00:45:47,188
Sarah: I put flowers on my porch and I can smell them, which I feel like yeah,
in the past I haven't really been able to smell 'em, and that just is wonderful.
884
00:45:47,308 --> 00:45:48,688
Lo: It's, it's alright.
885
00:45:48,808 --> 00:45:49,258
Perfect.
886
00:45:49,258 --> 00:45:49,708
I love it.
887
00:45:49,768 --> 00:45:50,068
All right.
888
00:45:50,068 --> 00:45:51,538
Thanks Sarah, so much for your time.
889
00:45:51,628 --> 00:45:51,778
Yes.
890
00:45:52,588 --> 00:45:52,768
Okay.
891
00:45:52,768 --> 00:45:53,338
Talk to you soon.
892
00:45:53,343 --> 00:45:53,533
Okay.
893
00:45:53,533 --> 00:45:53,693
Bye.
894
00:45:58,715 --> 00:46:01,625
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening to the Lo and Behold podcast.
895
00:46:01,955 --> 00:46:07,085
I hope there was something for you in today's episode
that made you think, made you laugh or made you feel seen.
896
00:46:07,625 --> 00:46:15,005
For show notes and links to the resources, freebies, or discount codes
mentioned in this episode, please head over to lo and behold podcast.com.
897
00:46:15,575 --> 00:46:21,755
If you aren't following along yet, make sure to tap, subscribe,
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898
00:46:22,625 --> 00:46:26,015
And if you haven't heard it yet today, you're doing a really good job.
899
00:46:26,525 --> 00:46:34,085
A little reminder for you before you go, opinions shared by guests of this show are
their own, and do not always reflect those of myself in the Labor Mama platform.
900
00:46:34,415 --> 00:46:41,435
Additionally, the information you hear on this podcast or that you
receive via any linked resources should not be considered medical advice.
901
00:46:41,765 --> 00:46:44,150
Please see our full disclaimer at the link in your show notes.