They were probably at that point maybe, maybe doing 70 million.

And we pushed it up between 125 million and 150 million.

We chopped $10 million in business in five days.

And that 10 million ended up doubling your top line.

Yeah, it exploded.

Super pumped about our next guest, current president.

And I just found out that he has about 24 hours left of that official role, but we'll get to that here shortly.

But current president of Kohl's Quality Foods, Tom Quinn.

The man has, you know, over four decades of experience in the food industry, but his current role is, you know, the acting president of Kohl's, Tom Quinn.

Welcome to the podcast.

If you want to kick us off, we'd love to hear, you know, for our listeners, the story of Kohl's how it, how it was established.

And then we'll get into some other things.

Great.

Thanks for the intro and appreciate this opportunity.

This is first one of these that I've done, so I'm actually looking forward to this simple.

Kohl's started in 1946, literally right after World War II.

But it was a fresh baked bakery.

You know, they made wedding cakes and bread, et cetera, and distributed to the local market in Muskegon, Michigan.

And in 1971, Wes Devon, who had worked for bakery over in Detroit, moved his family to Grand Rapids, became a salesman for the Kohl's product, Fresh baked delivered every day.

And he got tired of trucks being in ditches on winter days, having the inventory come back, it no longer can be sold.

And the was killing him as far as his bottom line.

His best item outside of the wedding cakes, which don't actually help you keep make a living, was a garlic bread product.

So he designed and took a leap, bought the business from the Cole family, put in new equipment and froze a garlic bread loaf.

And the original product is still on the shelf today, a one pound bread.

Kind of the rest is history.

My father at that time was owner of a grocery store chain of 12 locations in Western Michigan.

And I remember when Wes came into the store to put it into the coffin cases, which don't exist much anymore either.

Everything's in uprights and it slowly began to percolate.

I think his first year he did like a million one.

The way that he developed the business was driving down I75 every three times a year with his family for trips.

But it stopped every client, potential client, on the way down.

So he became extremely powerful west, or should say east of the Mississippi.

And then he sadly got Alzheimer's at a very Young age.

And his son Scott then took it over.

That would have probably been in about 1988, 1989, that Scott took it over.

And I had just exited my food brokers business.

We'll get into that a little bit later.

And that's really how Kohl's took off.

And they added Texas toast.

They added a mini bread, a one pound bread.

Did business with Meer Spartan Publix Food Lion Gordon Food Service.

Those were really the first ones that they got engaged with.

And we have a much larger client list than that now.

Sadly, his father passed away and yes, Scott took over and was instrumental in the growth of the company over the course of the next 35 years.

A lot of risk in a company this size, especially for an owner.

And I've owned companies and it's just different if you.

The risk is your entire family.

So I give credit to Scott for hanging in as long as he did because this is not an easy business.

Tom, I want to.

I want to back up because you.

You said something, but it kind of.

It clicked a little bit for me.

But you know, the innovator of frozen garlic bread.

You're working as a.

A kid at this time at your family's grocery store.

Your father started it and you have one of the.

The innovator of frozen bread, frozen garlic bread selling to you all and you're selling it to consumers in western Michigan.

That's accurate, correct?

Correct.

First client they had was Spartan Store.

Wow.

So it's safe to say that pretty much without you Italians and.

And families wouldn't know what to do on pasta night.

Is that.

Except they were really good at making their own bread, put their own butter on it and their own special sauce.

So it was hard to break into that community, quite honestly.

It was the rest of the world.

But it became a.

It probably was one of the begins.

They literally invented it.

He is the reason that there is other frozen garlic bread companies in existence.

Never been able to get him into the hall of fame.

I'm not quite sure why, but he clearly was the guy who came up with the idea and made it work.

So his business was in Muskegon.

That was a little tricky.

One of the things that gets tricky there we really Half moon as far as your labor force.

It can't hire people from Lake Michigan because it's just fish.

So that's a tricky.

If he had to do it over again, he'd have looked for a facility probably somewhere along 80, 90 south of the Michigan border.

We have to go south two hours to get on a highway to get to clients other than Spartan, Nash now and Meijer.

Those guys pick up and then Kroger division over in Detroit.

Otherwise we are not exactly in the perfect location for a manufacturer of food.

But it worked.

And as you're, you know, your, you know, growing up, experimenting in different career paths, jobs, was it always kind of in your head that you wanted to be a part of Kohl's or, you know, how did that?

How did that.

Yeah, that's funny too.

So I bought a broker's business at the age of 26, 27.

It was in.

So my first leaving the food business, I went in, when I say leaving the food business, leaving the retail end of it, I went in to work for Heinz Ketchup.

My background, and it's a, it's, it's critical piece of my background.

All the time I spent inside the stores made what I had to do for Heinz catch it very easy.

I understood tags, I understood how the whole process worked.

And after two years they brought me in and wanted me to run the region.

And in that timeframe they wanted to move my, me and my family five times, once every two years, into markets like Walmart's area, Publix's area.

I could stay the first two years in Michigan with Spartan, Nash and Meijer and then get a master's that they would pay for during that 10 year window.

And then my reward was to be to land in Pittsburgh.

I literally quit at the end of the meeting and said, absolutely no way I'm going to do that to my family.

And so I'm out.

And they thought I was joking.

So a week later, I was introduced to a gentleman who was in trouble with his brokerage business doing about 20 million in sales.

And I said, I'll buy this thing, but you got to stay out of my way.

And they'd become pretty inept of what they were doing.

I went to my network that was a part of my family's network that owned other grocery stores.

And the lines that we had were substantial.

So lenders, bagels, bagel waffles.

Bagel Waffles was a 10 share in the state of Michigan.

The damn facility was in Battle Creek.

Nine months later, we were a 60 share in the state of Michigan.

It wasn't rocket science.

It was just do your job Sunday raisins, orator potatoes, weight watchers, those were things that came out afterwards.

So then it.

In the year 1997, all the mergers were taking place in the broker's business.

It wasn't fun anymore.

You went from 5% commission to 3% commission over that time frame.

So you had to do a lot more volume to be able to manage your cash flow.

And so I merged with another company.

Knowing that I would exit six months later, I exited to go to work for Scott Deb, and they were doing about 20 million in sales.

I was there for 10 years with another really, really smart guy named Bob Cronin, who's down in Florida.

We've been working together on and off most of our careers.

We know each other well.

We grew it to about 60 million.

I was in the middle of bringing over a gentleman from Sparn stores, which I did, and two weeks later, Cronin and I were fired.

We don't know why.

So from there, I just went into consulting with a lot of companies and had a couple other side projects that I owned.

And then Kohl's got into some pretty serious trouble.

I got a phone call from Scott six and a half years ago.

Might be the most alcohol I've ever drank in my life.

As we went after each other, I'm not gonna be honest with you.

I was 50.

50.

I was like, yeah, I'm kind of okay if you go under.

Doesn't matter.

But it was too.

It was personal for Cronin and I.

I wouldn't do the deal if Cronin didn't come with.

And he jumped on too.

They were probably at that point maybe.

Maybe doing 70 million.

And we pushed it up into a neighborhood between.

I want to give you the exact number, but somewhere between 125 million and 150 million in six years.

And Covid helped us.

Okay.

So we had 7.78skus when I came in.

So you were with Kohl's in the late 80s?

I was with Kohl's and the.

From about 87 to about 97.

And then that's when I exited, or I got exited.

So that's when we grew it the first time.

So you grow it.

Still don't to this day.

Don't know why you were pushed out.

Never.

No clue other than that's just what the individual decided to do.

And clearly Scott had to approve it.

And what's your role at this time?

Senior vice president of sales and marketing.

We didn't have.

Scott was kind of CEO and president, et cetera.

So I moved on then.

The business did quite well after my exit.

They did a lot of the stuff that.

And I hate to say it this way, a lot of CFOs think the only way to success is to cut out all your expenses.

That's usually the way to kill yourself.

And they didn't reinvest.

They got in trouble.

So when he.

We would not do the deal coming back to Kohl's unless we were given ownership.

And he gave us ownership.

Nice pieces of ownership.

Now we had something to bank because if we did sell it, we got paid.

Okay.

And the contracts were very firm that I couldn't get clipped.

Okay.

Because I wasn't going to go through the same game.

So, yeah, we just put our heads down.

So we killed 65 SKU.

We have 22 now.

And at the time you added, you know, a hundred.

Yeah, we got rid of all the.

I love that you bring this up because I, I, you know, I feel like there's a lot of companies that dabble in different product lines instead of, you know, focusing on their wheelhouse.

You know, we had Yanni Huff Nagel with Lemon Perfect a few weeks ago, and they're maniacally focused on perfecting the best product.

And it's the original product that they, they developed.

You all start growing in every different, you know, you know, on every different, you know, path.

And you go, you come in and kill it.

And this is when you come back.

And you came back as president.

Correct?

Correct.

So you come back as president, cut out 60 plus product lines, and focus on what?

What's your focus?

Your bread and butter.

Yeah, we just.

We literally took the products that were doing 80% of our volume and sold more of it.

It wasn't rocket science.

So we didn't make any changes to the formulas.

Major client that we left.

The guy's still mad at me.

I literally exited him in one phone call.

So Covid also, it's funny business.

It's simple business.

You order what you need, we get it delivered to you on hopefully the agreed upon day, and you pay me at the agreed upon price.

So we also exited a bunch of clients who were really bad at number three.

I don't like to have to spend money, have a person on our staff chase money that is owed to us.

That's a complete waste of my time.

I lose money on both sides.

One, to have to put somebody in charge of chasing it, and the other, the fact that you're not paying it to me, it's a waste of my time.

So we also exited 11, 12 clients within a week of the COVID thing.

You roll out these decisions relatively quickly when you come up very fast.

They weren't, hey, we got 30 days.

It was, no, we're Done.

The inventory you have is what you have.

I'm not making it.

I destroyed all the packaging for all the product.

It was just all in the way.

We weren't running efficient lines.

Okay.

We were breaking into an eight hour shift four times and changing over.

So that means I actually get six hours of production.

I need to be able to run that.

It's 7 hours and 45 minutes.

So got the labor against it, don't have the efficiencies, and you don't make any money that way.

Once the efficiencies hit, bottom line, explode.

Okay?

And this again, a lot of people know how to do this, okay?

The challenge you have with people is being firm with inefficient clients.

So when you're in trouble and you're looking for any volume, you can, you have a salesforce that's saying yes to everything.

Well, can you make it in this size?

Yeah.

Can you make it?

Yeah, we'll do it.

It just destroys your production efficiencies.

And that's, that's where the money is.

You come in, you, you chop out product lines that aren't at $10 million.

In business in five days.

And that 10 million ended up doubling your top line.

Yeah, it exploded.

So where, where is that learned?

Is that, is that just through experience?

Is.

I mean, when you, when you say it, it sounds like it's common sense, but when you have all these moving pieces, I mean, you're the president of, of a $100 million company.

You walk in, you see the writing on the wall, you make these changes.

But is it, is it just eliminating distractions?

Like what is, is it exactly what are you paying attention to?

Yeah, it's interesting.

So I was spoiled, okay?

Murray Lender was a mentor.

Fred Meyer was a mentor.

William Lamoth from Kellogg, he was a mentor.

Obviously the guy bought the broker's business.

Was.

And my father.

You picked stuff up by accident.

You, you know, you've sat in enough meetings and you don't think you retained a lot.

You make a lot of notes.

But it's weird.

You'll be in an environment and it'll hit you that you've been in a conversation like this before.

That just is different with where we are now.

So it is when you talk to guys that are in production.

And so I own your own grocery store is a production.

It's just different.

You're not making the inventory, but there's a production to the process.

So you learn an awful lot there.

And the, you know, where you drive your volume.

What skus what are your loss leaders.

All that stuff.

And you take bits and pieces from all these guys that have been around you, and it.

It becomes clear, accidentally, almost, that this.

This gotta stop.

This has got to stop.

This has got to stop.

So.

So the main thing for me was I didn't really understand the production facility.

So I went down to the floor.

I worked on the floor no less than one day a week for no less than six to eight hours right alongside the team, including Covid.

And that's why I think, one, we didn't lose anybody during COVID I.

E.

Thank God having passed away.

But I couldn't ask people to take risks that I wouldn't take myself.

And I had Devin all over me on a consistent basis that I couldn't keep doing this.

I said, it's just not how this is going to play out.

Until I understand what goes on down there, I can't fix it.

Okay?

And it was everywhere.

Just I see stupid.

Okay.

I don't know.

I didn't have any magic formula.

I just started making changes.

We laid out the list and just started knocking them down.

And it improved every step of it.

So you mentioned a few things, and I want to.

I want to break these up.

One being, you know, the mentorship you mentioned, you rattled off a handful of mentors.

I consider myself still a young professional.

I'm aging in an industry where there's a lot of young professionals.

But one thing I've always realized is that historically, I've learned the hard way.

And I could have avoided that if I had someone to lean on or a mentor to help guide me in the right direction.

Did you actively seek that type of mentorship or how did that come about?

Good question.

So Merrilander's business wasn't much.

We don't have a huge Jewish community in Western Michigan.

We became the number one per capita market in the United States for bagels consumption.

It's because I worked with Murray, with the key clients, Meyer and Spartan.

Keep in mind, during my 10 years in my brokerage business, Meyer was adding 10 stores every year.

And an absolutely spectacular operator.

Highly ethical.

And this is the retailer Meijer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I followed a lot of the.

I didn't seek them, but by being successful with them, they embraced me.

Okay.

It was more by accident than by design.

Okay.

And you don't know that it's happened until it's happened.

But Bill of let me come down once every quarter and go into his special marketing room where there would be at least 10 drafting tables and Walk to each table.

I would spend five hours in the room.

Didn't say much, just was allowed to listen.

That information I learned in those sessions was beyond a doctorate.

It was insane what I learned.

And who was.

Who was this gentleman that was mentoring you at the time?

Bill Lamoth.

William Lamoth was the CEO of Kellogg.

And he's inviting you into their internal meetings as one of their partners.

Yep.

Because I was a broker selling their product.

So as I was exiting my business, they actually called.

Funny story, I got a phone call.

Lenders got bought out by Kraft, so we lost a large amount of revenue.

And I'm on my way back from my Detroit office, and I get a phone call from Mr.

Lamoe.

And I pick it up, and he goes, how you doing?

I said, I'm not having a good day, boss.

Lenders.

I knew I was going to lose it when crap bought it.

And he goes, well, I'm about to make your day better.

You've been asking me to give you Kellogg's cereal for five years, and I've ignored you.

So today is the day.

And he gave us Kellogg's cereal.

It replaced all the revenue I'd lost an hour late earlier.

So you can't make that shit out.

That is incredible.

So we're very lucky.

So, you know.

And then Fred Meyer was very helpful to me, even though my uncle at the time was the president of Sparn Stores.

I wasn't, I would say, embraced right away by Meyer buyers because they thought, you know, I might share information with Sparn Stores, which wasn't the case.

Fred helped me there, made it clear that that's not the case.

And the other.

It.

It.

They just happen you, if you work hard for them, they see and they hear you when you're negotiating what you'd like to do inside of the market as far as selling more of their product.

I remember Mrs.

Smith's pies, which was owned by Kellogg at the time.

I had flew out to Pottstown, Pennsylvania, met with a young marketing guy.

I suggested a different marketing program, half the cost.

And we took Chef Pierre out of the market in western Michigan four months later.

So it's.

It's going to the right people coming in with the right plan, asking them to spend their money, and then executing to make sure that they got their money back.

And that's how they pull you in.

And I'll say pull you in.

That's when they trust you.

Okay, I spent this money.

I actually spent less.

I'm getting more volume.

This is work now.

You're on a list of people they call and talk to about changes they want to make.

Okay?

I don't seek it.

You earn it, and you earn it, and you don't know you're earning it until it happens.

So, yeah, it.

I was very, very fortunate to have very smart people around me, and that's not hard to do.

Okay.

I mean, I don't consider myself a genius.

The.

These people around me were critical to the success of the things that have allowed me to protect my family.

Big deal.

I feel like that's a very common theme when.

When you're talking to successful, you know, whether entrepreneurs, executives, professionals in general, they.

They surround themselves with people who help elevate them to that next level.

And.

And, you know, if they do not, if they're bringing them down or weighing them down, they're cut out of their circle.

So, you know, I see that time and time again.

I'm a big believer in, you know, networking and.

And learning other people's stories, but it's fascinating to hear you say some of these things.

You know, you and I have gone back and forth and had some great conversations over the last couple of years, but, you know, to hear more details about, you know, your path to where you are right now is.

I mean, it's impressive.

Who is.

Who's the most impactful mentor that.

That you've had in your career?

My parents.

They started from a really young age with me, so it's a common term that people hear, but my dad lived and breathed that, okay, that right is right even if nobody's doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everyone's doing it.

So that's a really good path.

Okay, and so you already know the name of your company.

I remember the first time we talked, and I said, well, veritas.

Latin for the truth.

You're one of the first people that ever, ever knew that.

I mean, it's a cold call, but you were one of the first people that ever knew that.

I'm like, I'm.

I'm staying in touch with this guy.

Whether he gives me his business or not, I'm staying in touch with him.

What's the biggest issue and what advice would you give to young professionals today?

Biggest issue I see is they send an email and they think that that's going to somehow solve whatever issue you're going through.

And.

And I don't know what it is, why they're afraid to pick it up.

You cannot build a relationship with a client through text messages and emails.

You need to be on the phone with them.

They need to know who you are, and they need.

And you need to know who they are.

You need to talk about their family.

You need them to ask about your family.

And then now you got them.

Now you're in a position where they begin to trust.

Process, okay?

But you learn so much more in a phone call than you do sending a note because you've asked a specific question.

You.

In a phone call, you move through additional opportunities for questions by accident.

Doesn't happen in text messages, doesn't happen in emails.

So I don't know what it is that they're afraid of.

But the human contact is critical, and I see it going away.

Okay.

So we used to, in our day, almost every day was a lunch with a client.

Okay.

And nobody does it anymore.

So many people work from home.

And Covid did that too.

Made it worse.

Okay.

So you've really got to make a commitment.

For instance, I didn't have a huge relationship with Kroger when I came on board at Kohl's.

I took the account over myself.

We only had two salespeople doing this.

How long ago is this?

When I first came back to Kohl's, they had five or six of them.

None of them were very good.

So Bob Cronin and I took over all of our clients.

United States.

I took over Kroger, Meyer and Spar stores because I knew him.

He took care of Walmart, Publix, H E B, Winn, Dixie, etc.

And I know that other companies that competed against this had 15, 16 guys out there doing that.

So we didn't talk.

We did talk to the buyers, by the way.

Rule number one, never go over a buyer's head.

If a buyer tells you that he's made a decision, you accept the decision.

Even if you have a relationship that can change that decision.

That is a major no.

No.

Even if you do, there's gonna be bad blood there.

Bad, bad blood.

Yeah.

So not recommended.

But in your case, with the business you're in, you guys are constantly on the phone and also doing emails because the business moves so fast.

And Covid had to be a nightmare.

So we saw during COVID all kinds of new logistics companies come into play.

You would know all this.

And then now we're seeing them all disappear.

They were not sustainable.

And we had so many different logistics companies out there, and a lot of them needed to be there.

But now that everything's gone back to at least what we consider the new normal, they're gone.

They didn't have the bandwidth to stay in it against people who've been doing it a lot longer and a lot.

Better to that point.

Tom and this, this goes back to, you know, the relationship piece and putting your head down and doing the small things that are required for long term success.

But everyone flooding the industry, all the transportation companies, everyone was flooding the industry.

Tech, I mean, you name it, everyone was coming to transportation because it, it was exploding.

But they, you know, they did that as a transactional move.

You know, let's make a quick buck.

It's booming.

But they were not willing to make the phone calls or build their relationships, but ultimately had that long term success.

But you're exactly right.

The more you're in the business, the more fun it becomes.

I've never really had a bad day in this business.

I don't think I got fired up.

Don't all that.

But even when you lose an opportunity with a client because somebody either had a better price or potentially a better product when I was back in the food brokerage business, I still laugh about it.

Ego Waffle is still an 80 share in the United States.

Private label company cannot break into that product.

It's crazy.

So they dominate that.

Okay.

For years.

What do you think it is?

It's the quality of the quality of the product you can't get.

The price is right and the quality is at a high level.

Okay.

I mean, my grandkids love it every time I see it in there.

It's fun to open up a refrigerator or a cupboard and it's fun to go into grocery stores because at one point in my food burgers business, I had 400 SKUs inside of Mar stores.

So even today I have a, I say it a really, it's a habit I can't break.

My wife's laughs.

The minute we come through the door, I exit her.

I start walking around the whole store.

If I see something that isn't even my product and it's not doesn't look right on the shelf, I have to stop and fix it.

It's a disease.

I think that's ocd, which I also relate.

Yeah.

But that disease led me to.

And there's a quick story, led me to meet Sam Walton through Fred Meyer in one of Fred's stores.

I was cleaning up a honey aisle, a jar.

Now they're all in plastic, fell and broken.

It's all over the shelves.

Not my product.

And are you an employee of Meijer at this time?

No, I'm a broker inside of his store on my hands and knees.

And so Fred comes around the corner and says, sees me and says, what are you doing?

So I'm cleaning it up.

Honey goes, well, that your product said, no, it's not my product, but look what it's done to the shelf.

So I already had a bucket of hot water and I was going to go clean that.

He grabs the bucket, is who Fred was.

He goes back, I'll take care of that.

You keep cleaning this.

He comes back with a fresh bucket of hot water.

Now we're finishing, got it all cleaned up, dried off.

And I'm having to do all the bottles myself because they also are all sticky.

And I'm putting them back on the shelf.

And around the corner comes a guy that I recognize right away.

Sam Walden.

Fred, I'll never forget it.

As calm as could be.

He goes, hey, Tom, have you ever met Fred Walton?

And I'm like, no, Fred, how the hell would I.

Sam Walden.

Okay, what are you doing to me?

So this gets crazy.

He asked me for my business card.

I didn't call on Walmart for another seven years.

Well, hold on, Tom, please tell me is because the initial buyer told you no, you want to go above him.

Please tell me that's not the case.

Yeah, no, I didn't go above him.

So this is when you say, did I go, no, I did not.

What happened was he kept the car.

And she says, there's somebody wants to come down and say hello to you.

I'm like, I don't know anybody here.

And she goes, well, you're about to know somebody in front.

Or Sam walks through the door, says, hey, is this you?

And you're with a different company now, but this is you, right?

I said, it is.

When's this?

This is 1995 maybe.

And are you in Muskegon?

Yeah, yeah, it might have been in early 1990.

It might have been 91 or something.

So he comes in and he says.

I said, well, how do you.

What?

How do you keep the card?

He goes, anyone that Fred Meyer introduces me to.

And I asked for a business card, which you gave me, which nobody carries those anymore either.

I put them in a special file and I track if that.

My systems track if that person comes into my building.

And since I was introduced to you by Fred Meyer, I'm down here to have a 15 minute conversation with you.

What would you like to ask me?

I'm like.

I literally was like, what the hell's going on?

So we go out in to get a coffee.

I don't drink it, you know, I get A tea and turned into an hour conversation.

And it was fascinating to listen to him.

And I never kind of lost the connection between him and Fred.

So Fred built this huge Frederick Meyer Gardens, which are top five in the nation here in Grand Rapids.

I also donated quite a bit of money that rightfully so.

And Sam's there.

Fred says, hey, do you remember meetings?

And Sam goes, yeah, I do remember this kid.

And my wife's standing there.

My wife happens to be way.

I'm way overchecked immediately.

He just wants to talk to her.

And that's okay, too.

Why not?

If you're out and about and you're in buildings, you meet people.

Okay.

Covid took that away, and now we're getting back to it.

And by the way, there's also a major shift from the manufacturers were making the rules during COVID We're back to the retailers making the rules, and it's okay.

We just need the right blend.

I think we've learned from each other during that process that we need each other.

So it's really important that we not argue anymore, I.

E.

To be the lead dog.

What's best for both of us, I think, is where we're landing.

And it's.

I think it's a big deal.

I've not seen it this cooperative.

Absolutely.

I think collaboration is something that's been missing in our industry as a whole, you know, for decades.

I.

I think I don't even know if it's really ever existed.

I think we do start to see it now, especially with the.

The massive, you know, issues around fraud and.

And theft and double brokering.

But, you know, the government.

Government's not willing to do anything about it.

We have to collaborate as an industry to go and combat that and push for change, because, I mean, it's ruining relationships that are, you know, built over decades because you have these fraudulent actors infiltrating the industry and then, you know, just wreaking hell.

Aren't anything ever in.

Yeah, it's, you know, I think one of the notes you have in here, the AI thing, we've been.

We starting to fuss around with it.

It was going to be outside of my window, but I have a rule that I go in every day, twice a day, and go into it and.

And test it to see what I learned.

I'm fascinated by it.

Okay.

I'm also afraid of it in both measures.

Okay.

And I don't know what that could do to this industry as far as the direct communication.

The.

In your case, you know, we know when I get to some of your transportation things because you asked some good questions.

And I know we're running out a bit of time.

I've got a pretty hard stop at about 10:05.

But constant communication was critical to us during COVID from our transportation team.

The critical relationships that we had there turned into the same relationships that we had with our buyers.

And the.

We left one of our clients.

It was in Silver Lake, in Spring Lake, down by Muskegon.

And went with a larger one.

Didn't really work.

So we went back.

We.

We made a mistake.

We admitted it.

I'm good at that too.

If I made a mistake and it turns out bad, I don't have a problem saying I made a mistake.

I'll change that mistake.

And we became a lot more.

Became better communicators with each other about what we needed to know.

So I know that not every truck's going to arrive on time.

It's impossible.

You've been at docs me go out to a Meyer dock.

It's insane what's going on.

Okay.

And we need though people that let us know.

As long as we know prior to the client having to call me.

I'm good.

If you're going to be late, you're going to be late.

Fine, I'll call and tell them.

I'll tell the buyer.

I'll tell the guys at the doc, depending who I'm talking to.

All we really need is the truth.

Okay.

So what I don't like is hey, we're an hour away and it's 12 hours away.

Just tell me the truth.

Because if I go tell them an hour and it's 12 and it doesn't look good for either of us.

So deliver issues over the phone.

Yep, it's.

It just gotta manage it.

But.

And none of it is anyone's actual fault.

I mean think about the snowstorms we get and then we get in hurricanes.

I mean when that stuff goes on down in Florida, it's a 15 to 20 day window to even get close to back to normal.

We know the pain that is on the other side.

We would never have tried to take on transportation on our own.

It would.

We'd have failed in every way.

So that partner is critical to the relationship with our retailers.

And once you find one that's good, it's hard to get pulled away.

Like when we talked, it's like, yeah, I like you guys, but nothing's going wrong over here.

But you were always on a short list of if it did I enjoy.

You know, these guys sound like they got their act together, but it's.

You got, you had so many guys out there running around with like two or three reefer trucks that played themselves as big, but the minute our bandwidth hit it, the ceiling it.

They got run over.

And then I'm out looking for somebody because he didn't tell me the truth about how many trucks he really had.

Okay, so the.

That is, you know, when I talk about chasing money, you guys get hit with more fines at a doc that are typically, it's 50, 50.

They certainly aren't all your fault.

Yet sadly, the retailer many times lands it on your lap and then it has to be a conversation with us and it's.

You're stuck in the middle and it always seems to land incorrectly or inappropriately on your drivers.

I've never thought it was a fair process.

Ultimately, either you or I pay for it.

Client does.

Okay, I don't have any of those clients anymore.

We, as far as who don't pay us on time, the agreed upon price.

And it's critical.

The agreed upon timeline is no big deal anymore because you got enough cash flow.

But it's really critical that we know the whole process because in that there's by perfect example, if I send an email on this, there's 30 other emails trying to vet this.

And by the time I'm at email 12, I'm lost.

I don't know what we're talking about anymore.

Okay.

So yeah, you, you make the world run all right.

And the good ones need to be and are allowed to be highly successful.

You have multiple companies that we do business with that are highly successful.

We should be allowed to be highly successful as well.

And you should be allowed to be as highly successful as well.

The more efficient that we become, the smarter that we become.

That's really where we made our extra money.

We didn't go out and take price increases.

We went out and became more efficient.

That's the same world you're living.

Well, I think, I think it goes back to your dad's advice.

You're growing up just because, you know, just because one detail or one retailer is nickel and diming and creating a separate revenue stream on, on late fees and fines and otif you name it doesn't mean it's right for every retailer to do that.

You know, be that, you know, Kohl's, you know, being that standalone shipper who's doing things the right way with integrity, investing in people and relationships, you know, that pays dividends when, when, you know, situations like Covid happen.

Where these massive disruptors in the industry or, you know, the market tightens.

I'm sure your.

Your transportation partners aren't going anywhere and they're probably honoring their price, pricing or you're at least having conversation with it because they're willing to run through a wall because you guys treated them with respect and as a partner when.

When things were easy and when things are tough.

So big change.

You got 24 hours.

I know this.

Berlani acquires Kohl's.

What?

What you.

You, you tell us.

I know some details, but yeah, I've sold companies before.

Nothing like this.

Had a very great team from KMPG that did the managing the process for us.

I met some very, very, very bright people, two of which I've stayed connected to and will stay connected to.

The Scott decided he wanted to sell the business.

Took over a year, had two or three suitors.

It came down to actually a separate private equity group.

And I can say this since It's Public Knowledge E2P out of Chicago had already already owned Fulani.

I say it wrong.

Every time I say it, they say it different.

I tease them and call them fur boys.

It's easier.

They're good guy for listeners.

Real quick.

Ferlani is what, Canadian based.

A competitor out of Canada that also has a facility now in Milwaukee, Oak Creek, which used to be the Campioni company.

So E2P, who bought it with them, they are also highly successful company.

The care of things a little bit tricky on us.

Not right now.

It's gone a little quiet.

So we're in pretty good shape there.

The they bought us officially.

We were purchased January 15th.

Somewhere between January 15th and 20th, at least.

That's when the money hit the bank.

Okay.

That's when it's official.

I feel like that's when it's official, because you do.

You do sweat that last three or four days.

So they're very reputable client.

They have inventory.

They have product in the United States, along the East Coast.

They're in Toronto or Mississauga.

Make a great product.

They control a lot of the private label that we didn't want in the East.

We never could get in because they were good at what they did.

They're also heavily involved in food service.

The some of the original family members of Fulani are still there and operating this merger right now.

Our plan, we make a really high quality breadstick in North Liberty, Iowa.

They wanted that plant badly and the Muskegon plant came along with it.

So it just took time.

I mean, you're on and you're off.

You're on, you're off.

And sometimes it can get a little petty and not necessarily on both sides, but you start arguing over a million dollars.

I found that to be ridiculous.

Um, we, we paid the attorneys that much more money in the pissing match.

Doesn't make sense.

And the deal went down.

I was transitioned for six months, four months.

Pretty busy with what they needed from me last eight weeks.

Like I mentioned, not much.

I see that as being a highly, highly successful business.

The only people they compete against now are Pembridge Farm and in New York, also very good operators.

It allowed Scott Devin to do what he wanted to do with the revenue that he received.

And I've never heard him so calm and happy on the phone as my last two or three conversations.

So a lot of stress builds up during this time frame and all of a sudden it's done.

And it does take a while, but there is a physical response to your body, which I didn't see coming.

A good one.

Okay.

Where the worst thing I had to worry about this week was whether or not it was going to rain so I could stain my deck.

That's not a big deal.

So, yeah, the logistics of the United States, which we all know is very well done, has driven all the additional efficiencies.

I mean, think about.

I think about where we were 40 years ago, where I wrote an order by hand, I would fax it.

I remember my first phone came in a pouch that was strapped to my shoulder.

And the minute I was actually able to put it into my car, I found an additional three hours a day driving back and forth to Myers Barnstorms and became more and more efficient.

And this little bad boy is the best invention in the world that makes one.

That thing makes money.

It's a cell phone.

He's referring to if.

If you're not watching.

My other advice to young people, if you ever become afraid of picking up a phone because you think it's a client that's mad you made the wrong decision, pick it up, take the hit, solve the problem, move on.

Do not hide from clients.

They'll hang you.

Well, they'll find someone that doesn't lie and someone that does have those tough conversations.

So just got to do it.

So that's kind of the.

The process.

I'm.

I think this is going to be very good for Kohl's.

They have a lot of money to invest into the facilities and make them more efficient.

We weren't.

You get to a certain point where we need another 50 million.

And now that comes.

That lands on Scott Devon.

Okay.

And that's a big number.

All right.

When you can exit it and not have to deal with it anymore.

So I tell them all the time, God bless you.

You worked your ass off for 35, 40 years, and you're dead.

You.

You brought your father's legacy to the forefront.

You did your job.

Yeah, I mean, that's really.

This is a simple business.

I do not complicate this.

I have a lot of smart people around me that help me with the.

I don't want to do.

That's the name of the game right there around yourself.

But no, Tom, seriously, this is.

This is incredible.

You know, huge congratulations on the sale of.

Of Kohl's.

I know you've.

You've, you know, done wonders for the company as a whole, and you've dropped some serious knowledge bombs throughout.

I could.

I could talk to you for.

For three hours.

I know you need to go, but you mentioned legacy.

Last question I have for you.

What do you want Tom Quinn's legacy to be?

I don't even know what a legacy actually is.

I mean, I.

I look at guys like Al Kaline, the guys I watched growing up in the success.

All I simply did was my job.

And I got.

I caught breaks along the way with people who helped me.

And I've done the same thing in my career.

The number of cards and letters that I have received from people in the organization thanking them for my mentorship and being open, that's my.

That's the thing I'm most proud of, that the people that I worked with found credibility in my knowledge, executed it made it better.

All I really did was keep.

I said it before.

All I did is keep my head down.

Okay.

I don't let things distract me.

I don't have time for it.

I don't get into petty conversations.

So my legacy is that I helped others the way others helped me, and that's what I'm most happy about.

And that's the fact that they qualified it with a written note.

Also something people don't do anymore.

Handwritten.

Okay.

I got.

I got you one of those.

Yeah.

Yes, you did.

So that's a big deal, too.

So, yeah, no real legacy.

Now it turns into protection of the family down generationally.

And to make sure that we don't make any mistakes there.

I don't need a lot.

Pretty simple process.

So it's funny, all my friends like, what sports car are you going to buy?

I'm not buying a sports car.

I've had those in the past.

I don't get it.

Okay.

I just need a car that can get me to.

My dad used to say this, too, and so did Fred Meyer.

He drove Chevrolets.

And I used to tease him.

He goes, tom, I've never had a car make me any money.

It takes me from a location where I go in and I make money, but it doesn't make me money.

Okay, So I drive.

I just drive.

Simple stuff.

Okay, well, travel a lot.

I've been lucky enough to.

I got a great network of good friends.

And you're gonna spend a lot more time with them.

No real legacy.

I just did my job, and it turned out okay.

It could have turned out wrong.

Okay, so you just don't know.

A lot of breaks come in at the end of these deals, and it, for a while, looked like it may not happen.

And then some really smart people in other locations helping do the deal put it together.

And one of them I'm actually talking to later today and going to go visit him.

He was a big part of it.

And we brought in a temporary cfo.

I should mention him, Rob Heitmeier.

If he had not come in as a consultant in this process, he.

We would not be where we are.

Along with Bob Cronick, those in Scott Devon.

Those are the critical pieces to this whole thing.

That's where we're at.

Well, Tom, I know you.

You have about 23 hours left until your.

Your retirement as president, of course, Quality Foods.

I know you're not.

You know, you're.

You're being humble about your legacy, but I think there's Me, plenty of people who have interacted with you myself, include that will sing your praises and be impacted because of you, your presence.

But I can't thank you enough.

You ever want to do it again, we can do it.

On another topic.

I like this.

This is fun.