Welcome to The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers who want to better understand and connect with their four legged friends. I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy, and today we're diving into one of the most important and. Often overlooked aspects of dog care enrichment. My guest is Mr. Shay Kelly, a leading expert in canine enrichment behaviour and training. Shay is the author of several books on dog behaviour and is passionate about helping pet parents create happier and fulfilled lives for their dogs through simple. Practical enrichment techniques. In this episode, we explore why enrichment is essential, how it can pr, prevent, and solve behavioural issues and easy ways to introduce more enrichment into your dog's daily routine without spending a fortune. Whether you have a high energy pup, a senior dog, or a nervous rescue, this episode is full of inspiration and actionable and actionable advice. So grab a cup of tea, settle in, and let's get started.

Come back to the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily. I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and I'm so excited to bring you another episode today. Even more excited that we have the legend. That is, is Mr. Shay Kelly joining us on the episode. Um, welcome Shay. Um, so we're gonna be talking all about enrichment and why it's so important for your dog, and it's gonna be a great jam packed episode. So Shay, welcome to the Yappy Hour. As I've said, I'm so excited to have you with us today. How are you doing?

I am very well, thank you. Thanks for having me on here. Always nice to talk about, uh, anything dog related, really.

Absolutely. No, you're most welcome. I'm so she. For those that might not be familiar with your work, could you share a little bit about your background and how you've became so impassionate about enrichment?

Oh, it's, uh, a long story, which I'll try and make a bit

That's okay. You, you, you go for it.

As, uh, going right back to childhood, I, I would say I didn't really gel with, uh, people so much as I jelled with animals. And so it was always that natural progression from there really.

Oh, lovely.

as an adult, uh, uh, nothing changed. I was still, I still felt more connection to an animal where, you

Oh,

know, there there's no social pressures and, and all that sort of thing that you get with, uh, with human social activities. And, you know, I'm not

absolutely.

and all that. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm chatty online, but I'm not really, uh, in the real world. I sort of keep myself to myself.

Oh, I feel privileged that you've come onto onto the hour with me then.

Yeah. So, uh, uh, in, into adulthood I sort of got into obedience and, and sort of liked training, um, like that. And then I got into trick training as time went by. Um, I worked in rescue kennels and I ran training classes. And then I went to university and, um, did three degrees 'cause I got a bit addicted to it on, uh, touring dog training and one on animal behaviour.

Wow.

for dog aid assistance dogs, and I do the occasional guest lecture, uh, sometimes for the uni that I went to. And, uh, I've done a few other talks for people. I've done a, done one for Isha Stewart, and,

Oh

written my books as well, which

yes.

a sort of a long, a long term, um, dream really. But I'd never expected it to happen.

Oh wow. Well, we're gonna be chatting about your books as well. I've got one here with me. So we are gonna be coming onto your books, so that's fantastic. Three degrees, I dunno how you manage that, but fair play to you.

Well, when, when you consider I left school without a single qualification,

Wow.

it was quite a surprise for me as well. But when you get hooked on something that you're really passionate for, you

Hmm.

I, it, it wasn't, uh, it was difficult, but it wasn't, um, it was, it was something I wanted to do. I was sort of addicted to it. I, I, I spent every day thinking about it. It over, it, it overtook my life, really.

Wow.

I sort of really lived it. I was always working on an assignment of, of some kind

Yeah.

So I did the first two degrees and then I, I wasn't gonna do the masters.

Okay.

uh, but, but after, after about two months of doing nothing, I was like, I, I had to book again, so I had to go back the following year.

Wow. What an inspiration. I love that fair play to you. Like you say, you got addicted to it and you're clearly passionate about it, so that's absolutely brilliant. Um, so you've written several books. We, um, we touched on your books just now all about dog behaviour and enrichment. What inspired you to focus on these topics?

I think, I think really the, the enrichment came along almost accidentally. Um, I, I wasn't massively more into enrichment than anything else, but I, I, I was more into dog tricks and, and I had a, I did, I did a, a Facebook group where people won different awards. Um, dog trick geeks. It was called many, many years ago. Um, but it became about it. It was nice, but part of it, people become obsessed in just, I. What they're trying to achieve and, and not the journey to get there. I just wanted something that wasn't about being the best and, and you know, just enjoying your dog, whatever level they

Yeah.

or whatever level you were on. I didn't want it ev Everything in the in in the dog world seemed to be a competition and that's

Yeah,

a little bit uncomfortable with, I would say.

yeah.

even though I enjoyed that stuff, I was a little bit uncomfortable with it. It,

Yeah.

about the relationship so much as it was about, oh, I wanna be the best at something.

Yeah.

looking around at enrichment then, and there was a lot around about, um, there was things called like, do more with your dog and things like that, but there was no. At that time, there was no umbrella term of canine in Richmond. It just

Right.

seem to exist.

Okay.

I started the first, uh, enrichment group because I couldn't find anything online at all when I was looking.

Oh, okay.

I think I got the idea, and it's a long time ago now, but I think I got the idea from the, um, zoo groups. 'cause there was some for zookeepers,

Yes. Right.

it just puzzled me that there wasn't one for dogs when we, we were all keeping them in our homes.

Yeah.

I started my own. And, and that really is, is one of, it was the right, wasn't because I was brilliant, it because it was just the right thing at the right time and it really took off. You know, I had thousands and thousands of members in no time. And then other, other groups appear with similar names and it just grew from there. And now it's everywhere. You don't, don't see a behaviour conference without it mentioned or a workshop horror. So I, I like to think I had a little part to play in that and it makes

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Fair play. Definitely. Um, one of your books is all about enrichment as well, isn't it?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah.

and, and

Yeah,

the first book to be

that was the first one.

now, but it's the first book to be written solely for dog enrichment. It's,

Wow.

does seem odd. now there's loads and, and loads, which is

you can always, you'll always be one of the, you are always the first though, so that's a good accolade.

Yeah. It's

That's, that's brilliant. I've got one of your books as well. I've got puppy nurture, but I think this one's been released again, isn't it Sha if I got that wrong,

No, you got that wrong. KKKK nine. Enrichment is the only one with a second edition.

Ah, there we go. Right? Yep. Okay, so is that done now? I did see something that you were doing it. Yeah,

Yeah, that one's done. And I'm working on a book which is taking much longer than the others, which is just about, um, recall, um, because of the problems people have with recall. But it's the first time I've written a whole book on just one behaviour, if you know what I mean. So

yeah,

quite a, it's quite challenging really. 'cause you don't wanna fill it with waffle to make it a book. All it has to be meaningful.

yeah.

if, if, if you look at my training book, you know, the, the, the recall exercise takes up, I don't know, two or three pages, uh,

Right.

So you're trying to write a whole book on that one subject. So it has a lot of, it's in a holistic approach really. It has a lot of, um. Things that will benefit the relationship and benefit the recall and, and stuff like that. And building up slowly. And I'm, I'm only about halfway through, so,

Oh, okay.

it's very slow going.

I'm, I'm, I'm told that, um, they do sometimes take a while as a bit of labor of love writing a book.

Abso, you have to, you have to see it that way really. I, I, I sort of, for me, it's sort of like a therapy. It's just some

That's nice.

being able to write things down. And it's not all the hustle and bustle of Facebook or social media, you know, it's just your little space to, to write whatever you want

You could

don't get much argument about it. You know,

No,

the, the, the people who are reading it are, are say at home, not, not

yeah. Not behind a, yeah.

every little word. Yeah.

Yeah. Not behind a keyboard. So it's almost a bit of an escapism I gather.

there's, there's, there's no money in it really. It's not a business. It has to be a passion.

Yeah.

there's, there's just so many books out there now. Everybody has, you know, you can, you don't even need a publisher. You can self-publish. It's very easy. everyone's writing them. Some are not very good to start with. And then now you've got that, um, AI stuff coming in, which Amazon are willing to, to sell just about anything,

Oh gosh.

it. Um, even a computer, they're not very good. The technology's not there yet to make the books very good there, but if they pay for the advertising, which they do, they get their book up there in all the searches, and that's what people are buying, unfortunately. So it's a very difficult marketplace. So you, you know, you have to just do it for yourself and enjoy your work being out there for people if they, if they choose to read it.

Exactly. So your book that you are in the middle of then, is it just gonna be ready when it's ready? You just take your time with it.

I, I, people keep asking me and I keep, I keep, I move the goalpost each time,

That's fine.

the, the, I was hoping this summer, but it's, uh, there's, there's still quite a lot to do and I'm getting a puppy in four weeks time,

I've seen, I've seen you're getting a puppy. Yeah. So puppy nurture. Then you, you, you've, you know, you've got, you know what you do with your new puppy,

Yeah. I'll, I'll reread the book

you'll reread the bit. So what number was this? Was this number two or number three? Because you've got a few out

but Canine Enrichment had a second edition, so it depends how you, how you

how you do it.

Um, I, I have kept the original on sale. I took it off sale for a while, but then I put it back on very cheap 'cause people seem to want it so.

fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Well I have, I'll definitely have a lookout for that one. Um, I dunno what made me brought that. I think I saw it in, in one of your groups I was in and I went and got it. But I do know you had some others, so I will be looking out for those

Yeah,

yes, you are new.

that puppy nurture is the one I'm most proud of really. It's not the

Oh.

I'd ever read, but I, I was really, really pleased with that book, more so than, than any of the other books that I've written. Um,

okay.

you know, I, I've, there is so many puppy books out there, just everyone seems to write a puppy book. And I suppose that's when people are buying and looking around is when they get a puppy, they're looking for what to get and what they need and, and all that. But they're not very good. Uh,

Okay.

had, I just had to write one that didn't have something in it that didn't make me cringe. 'cause I've not

That,

yet. So

fair enough.

I was pleased to have that one. You know, even some of the really, I'm not gonna mention 'em for obvious reasons, but some of the really famous ones that, that, you know, the highest sellers in the country have got pages in there where you've just shake your head,

Oh gosh.

te teaching people about separation anxiety by locking a dog in a room. And it's just

Oh God.

These

That's.

be the good ones.

Yeah. That's nuts. Alright, well I'm glad you've brought out a good one. We definitely recommending that more. Um, yeah, so you mentioned your new puppy, so four weeks to, to moose arriving you on count, you on countdown.

Yeah. Get getting updates pup updates virtually every day from, from the breeders.

Yeah.

Very

So

Uh.

what mind, um, if you don't mind me asking, what made you go for a new puppy? Just felt you, you were missing having a puppy around or?

as, as we're talking about enrichment, um, the, probably the biggest reason is that, you know, I, I like to have more than one dog. And I, I, my dogs, um, a few years ago, both in the same year, both

Oh gosh.

different cancers.

Oh gosh.

what, um, Mr. B, my Labrador died young. He was only nine years old, so that was

He's in this book. He's in this book, isn't he? Mr. BI saw that Barney.

I think, yeah, that's the one I dedicated to him. Um, and we had Daisy as well. It was a bit older. She was 14, but she had, uh, cancer as well the same year later that

Wow.

six months later. So. Then I, I, I, I got my current dog, uh, Monty, and I've just been waiting really for the right time to bring in another one. And I just think the, the greatest form of enrichment, if you can do it, it's not for everyone. I'm not saying that at all. If you can do it, it's for them to have another canine companion. I, I think

Yeah.

it's

how old's now?

he's two and a half.

Oh, so still a good agent to have a little playmate.

yeah. He, he, he will probably revert to puppy hood a little bit, not that he's ever completely got out of it. Um,

Yeah.

it'll, it'll be fun. Let's say,

Oh, I can't wait for all the updates. I've already seen some cute little pictures of, of moose, but I can't wait until you, you bring him home?

oh, he is gorgeous

Yeah, he does. Is he the only one that's that color out of the litter as well?

there. There's two out of eight

Oh wow.

other one's a girl. So I,

Oh, okay.

de, I definitely know which one's mine, so I'm sorted.

Brilliant. Wow. Can't wait for moose and all the moose related posts to, to come out from you. So I look forward to that. So we're gonna be moving on to our next section, which is all about what is enrichment and what and why does it matter. Um, people often think of enrichment as just given their dog a puzzle toy, but it's so much more than that. Shay, how do you define enrichment please?

Yeah, and, and surprisingly I'm not really into the puzzle toys everyone expects that will be, but, uh, I, I, I don't find dogs are that good at solving complex puzzles. I just,

Mm mm Why make it hard?

ex Well exactly, that's the other thing where people go wrong. I think with enrichment they think it's about making it hard rather than engaging. So it's a, I think that's one of the big mistakes that you see. But for me, and I was only thinking about this again recently with you to coming back on here 'cause I think everyone who asks me that question probably gets a slightly different answer because you change as it evolves and you know,

Yes.

and, and all the rest of it. So, and so now I like to say that enrichment is giving back and that,

Love that.

the reason it came in in zoos and was needed back in, I dunno, that the early eighties it started to really get big ens zoos is because it became o obvious that the animals weren't faring very well. Um, in such confinement. 'cause basically they're not able to do the behaviours they would be doing. They're not able to even do replacement behaviours 'cause their, their confinement is so small compared

Mm

know, living a world life.

mm

so it's, it's really about, um, giving back some of the opportunities that are lost due to captivity. And people don't often think of dogs as being in captivity or being, uh, captive animals, but

mm

are, they're, they're confined to our little lives in our little houses.

They are.

and, and so we have to give opportunity for behaviour, you know, that's gonna benefit them. So that's what I think is about now is, is just giving those opportunities back.

Yeah,

And,

love that.

you know, the, the, the thing is that the animal was born to. with their environment. That's why they've got such an advanced brain. And, you know,

Mm

have got an advanced brain and to make choices and to seek food and to explore and to even to avoid danger. But in, in our lives, all those things are pretty much taken away from 'em. They, you know, even avoiding danger, which seems, say it like that, seems daft, doesn't it? But they

mm

have that choice. We've got 'em on a leash. Uh, they, they've got, they've got no choice where they live,

That's it.

so it is trying to some of those, um, things back really, and, and stimulate their mind and, and, and, and help with their development and just give them an active, um, mind. You've

Yeah.

at the, the, the problems with children. Um, it's known about a bit more now, but from years

Yes.

to when I was young. Really? If, if you didn't, if they didn't get the opportunities. That people get now really with interaction and development and going to, uh, nursery schools. Like they, I've got a little granddaughter in nursery school now,

Ah,

the things they do, it's just, it's a joy. They send photos over of all their activities and I, and, but you just think of that in a development term, how many children they're interacting with and how many things they're going to see. And rather than maybe being stuck at home until the age of four, if

yeah.

stimulation in that home. And,

Mm.

and, and so, you know, it's not as serious with a dog obviously, but it's the same sort of principle and, you know, the

Yeah.

needs stimulation if it's gonna develop well.

It does. Brilliant. I love that. And what I kind of get from that is giving back, but it's almost giving back their freedom, isn't it? To a degree.

Yeah, absolutely. And one, one of the

Yeah.

that I've sort of got interested in a bit more, um, recently is, um, is the idea of agency. And, and when you look at that, it's more than just being about choice. It's agency is there for animals to develop to, to, to build confidence, to explore and, and feel, you know,

Hmm.

they build confidence by being able to make choices because they can investigate something, they can have a little look or they can back off, run away over way when they're free. When in captivity you haven't got those choices, so they don't feel as secure. Um, most likely. So we've, you know, we've got a job to do in looking after 'em, I think more than people think we have.

Yeah, definitely. We are seeing that word agency branded around a lot more now, aren't we?

Yeah, I, I, I think the thing took, for me anyway, um, I wrote a piece last year for operas the, uh, Skinner magazine

Right?

um, choice and stuff like that. And that's what really got me thinking about it. And really, when you look at it, it's, it's a big chunk of it is about their ability to develop them

Mm.

not, it's not just choice.

Yeah. Brilliant. Um, what happens Shay, when a dog isn't getting enough enrichment in their daily lives?

It's an interesting, um, topic. I think that because, um, we, we think of, um, behaviour problems all the time because they're the things that are causing us humans, uh, a problem. But I often think of the ones that go the other way, and there must be loads of dogs like this that just shut down and, and you know, they just get used to doing nothing all day.

Mm,

always gonna be obvious in behaviour problems.

Okay.

your dog will just be, I, I would use the word depressed and, you know, people might not like that word for, for an animal, but

No, I know what you're saying.

I would describe it. If they've got no joy in life and, you know, nothing seems to matter to them, I would describe that as, as, as depression. So you've got, I, especially when they're young, you've got a lack of brain development. Um, not just the ethics of it. It's, you know, if you've got a dog that's not developing properly or not stimulated properly, you're gonna get other issues. You, you can't expect to have everything you want from the dog if their brain isn't even developing properly. you've got the behaviour problems where dogs

Excuse me. Sorry.

and is making an appearance.

it's making me sneeze.

dogs will try and often try and, um, fulfill their own lives by getting into mischief and getting into bins and, you know, chewing up the furniture. And so you've got all that side of it and then you've got the boredom and, and, uh, going back to agency, I think a lack of confidence because there was not enough stimulation, not enough development, not enough. Letting the dog investigate different things. And, and, and overall you end up with poor mental wellbeing. I. But, but it can be odd to, know, put an exact figure on that because

Yeah.

who even sees it, you know, it's

Yeah, that made me feel a bit sad. Like if a dog's feeling depressed, it's quite a, sorry, state of affairs, isn't it? If they're not getting Wow. That enrichment, that, that, that, that,

but looking back, I've seen lots of dogs in that state.

yeah.

of dogs when I think about it now, that don't that spark in their relationship with their, uh, guardian at all, because they've never learned that their behaviour influences anything because they, they've just, you know, it's all exciting when they're a pup. Sure. But when a novelty wears off and it, and it often does, they become a bit of a, a burden to the, to the guardian and they're just sort of forgotten about. And we need to find ways of, it's not just about the dog. I always think people will always say, oh, it's the dog's walk. It's the dog's this, and, but. The, the guardian needs to find joy in it too. So you need to find ways of enjoying your dog as you're not gonna do it.

Yeah, absolutely. I guess that's where like the different sports, like come in like, you know, hoopers, agility, scent work, doing stuff for your dog to build on that bond and relationship.

Yeah, absolutely. And when I started the enrichment start, actually going right to back to the beginning when I started the group, I was thinking more along the lines of dogs that are stuck at home, not dogs that are out doing all these dog sports and all of it. They don't need it so much, or they're less likely to need it because they've got a full active life with somebody who takes them out and about and does stuff. But

Hmm. Um.

I always remember reading a survey very long time ago, I'm talking about over 30 years ago, that the R-S-P-C-A did how many. actually got walked every day. Uh, it was, I can't remember the figures, but it was staggeringly low of dogs that never even left the house or on a regular walk or, and that's not to say that all dogs need a walk. Um, 'cause some dogs, it's, it's not the right thing for them. It's too much for them or they've

Yeah.

but generally dogs should be going out and about and being part of your life, in my view, not, not locked up at home.

Yeah. Agreed.

that's what I was more thinking of when I started in Richmond. It was for these dogs that are often stuck at home.

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Um, are you able to break down the different types of enrichment and why they're all important? I,

So for me, I made my own when I was studying, um, in Richmond and stuff like that at uni. None of the, there's lots of different ways that have been used to categorize the different elements of enrichment.

yeah.

none of them really, I. I, I wasn't totally comfortable with any of 'em. It didn't make, uh, complete sense to me. I, I don't think, audio is ever going to, um, be a big thing in, in canine in Richmond, although some people play the music and, and that, but it's not, it's not quite the same as old faction, you know, so it doesn't even compare, does it? So, so I,

I.

I did and that, that sort of formed, um, what I did with the enrichment book. Really, that's the way I broke it down into different segments. So I, um, and, and this one, they all overlap a little bit, the different, um, categories. Um. Um, but they do that, however you look at it, however you look at enrichment, uh, at whatever the category sort of thing is. but one you never see anywhere, which I have in mind. And the first thing to consider is actually safety. And, and, you know, you think how, how is safety enrichment? But if the dog doesn't feel safe, never gonna have an enriched life. Safety comes before everything else. You know, mammals need to find a place of safety else, else. That's their biggest concern. Nothing else matters so much as safety. Um, so, so you've always gotta look at, you know, you want to be their place of safety, uh, really, which is why I'm so opposed to aversive training and, and those sort of practices. But the way I, the way I, uh, explain it in, in, when I do talks on it. Is that if you can imagine sitting on a beach, if, if that's what you like, it's not gonna work. If you don't like that, um, reading your nice, uh, your favorite book and drinking your favorite drink, and it's all lovely, peaceful, beautiful beach with a, you know, beautiful clear sea. Um, and then you take those exact same things, that nice deck chair and that nice book and that nice drink, and you put them in the middle of the M 25 on the central reservation, um, you're, you're suddenly not gonna find any of that enriching, are you? It it's not possible because you are bothered about your safety, uh, rightly so. So, um, enrichment isn't, these things aren't enriching if you don't feel safe.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

your dog a Kong

I,

with fireworks going off next to them. it's, so safety is a big thing for me, uh, in enrichment.

yeah.

I go to food foraging, which is a different category. And, and that's a massive category. and I must say when, when I started enrichment, that's what it, that's how I thought of really as food, because it's so easy

Yeah.

dogs have to eat. We all have to eat. And in, in, in, in, if there wasn't in captivity or any look at any other animal, how much time they spend, resources they put into getting enough calories, you know, finding that food, hunting, whatever it is, even if it's grazing, they're spending a lot of time doing that activity. Um, and putting a lot of effort into it. 'cause it's what's gonna keep 'em alive.

Mm.

and then for years and years and years and years. We've just put their food down in front of them in a bowl. And the two, I'm not saying you have to just do one or the other, but the, the contrast between the two of those things is just so vast. If you, I mean, I often feed my dog in a bowl these days. I didn't feed years. Um, but if you're struggling for things to find, to fulfill your dog in an enrichment, enriching way, that is the obvious go-to.

Mm.

about making their food difficult to, um, access

Mm-hmm.

It's about engagement and making it interesting.

Yeah.

them the opportunity to be successful, not, not making it difficult. Too many, too many people do that, and they'll,

Yeah.

I, I wrap food up in a towel. Um, I think I started that craze off years ago. Um, food up in a towel. It is surprisingly not as easy as you would think for a dog to us. You just think, oh, it's just unroll it. And you could teach a dog to just unroll it properly and it'd be easy, but if you don't do that, they're all over the place with it and it all gets, so it's not that it's not that easy. Um, but then I see people only recently on TikTok saying, oh no, they've been doing it all wrong. Doing that. That's not difficult enough. You've

Oh God.

there and then you've gotta tie the towel in a knot. It's like, give the dog a chance. It's just, it's just supposed to be fun and engaging. So, you know, so

don't want it to be frust. You don't want it to be frustrating, do you? Like you say, it'll be fun.

So I always try and stress the point now, you know, it's supposed to be engaging, not difficult,

Yeah.

on. Uh, I got another, uh, category, which I call non-food activities, and, and

yeah.

that came in because too many people. Um, concentrated on the food and, and, and you don't want your relationship with your dog to be all about food because life isn't all about food. And, and you can make the dog obsessive over food. Not like you need much help when you're a Labrador

Yeah.

am, So you've got non-food activity and, and that can just be, um, like playing with toys, like flirt poles and, and stuff like that, which don't have to involve food at all. The dog is just enjoying it for enjoyment itself. 'cause it finds it fun.

Yeah.

um, natural behaviours I think is a real big one. That's another category. So there's five altogether categories, um, natural behaviours, and ju these are just ways of thinking about it. You know, they're not all totally separate, but it, it, but it makes you think about what your dog might need. And the most, the most obvious for, for dogs is, is, um, scenting, uh, being able to sniff,

Mm-hmm.

doing, doing olfactory games and, and stuff like that. They just, couldn't recommend it enough. You know, if you only did one thing with your dog, it would be to, to eng engage. Let them engage in olfaction of, of some sort. Do do something because That's sort of what they was born to do. That, uh, and it's been found in, you know, studies that it increases optimism, which is a great way, way of showing that it's increasing their mental wellbeing. Uh, 'cause

Yeah.

is, is strongly linked to, to wellbeing.

Yeah.

So it's just a, it's a no brainer, really. And then the

Yeah.

is, uh, companionship and bonding, um, which brings us on to getting another dog. And, you know, it doesn't always have to be with another dog because dogs bond with humans extremely well. Um, so dogs can live quite happily on their own. Um, but they need that, that, that figure in their lives, even if it's a human, um, to really bond with them and you to be their attachment figure. And just like in, in children who, who have an attachment figure, usually their mother, you know, it can be their father as well as just have to be one. But, but usually, especially when they're small, them, your mother is your strongest attachment figure and. The thing I always think with dogs, the interesting thing is that I think we've bred them over the years and developed them to stay quite infantile. I don't, many dogs don't really grow up. I might, I might be bringing in my influence with Labradors again here, but you know, they just like humans, they play into adulthood. Um, a lot of animals don't because they're more interested in having to get enough food and stuff like that. But we've done that. We've bred, um, infantile features on the face and, and that all has a knock on effect. So, and don't grow up to be independent. They grow up, you know, they're with us their own lives. And so I think they do have quite a lot of, uh, um, childishness about them, if you like. Um, a lot of dogs do at, at least. And so probably that attachment figure and that bonding is even more important because it could be like, it's a, a, a, a parent child type. Type relationship.

Yeah,

And that's, so that's how I sort of look at it. And that's why I think the, the companionship is so important,

definitely.

bond, you know, for them

Yeah.

of safety and trust and, and to be able to enjoy life.

Yeah. Okay. Can I just summarize those and repeat them back to you? So Shay's, different types of enrichment. There were five, we had safety at number one, then food foraging. Was that right? I dunno if I caught the end of yet. Food foraging.

have, they don't necessarily have to be in that ho order that's just, you

that's just that, that's just your fight. And then we got non-food activities, natural behaviours, and companionship and bonding.

Yeah.

Lovely. Right. So our next, um, section is all about enrichment for different dogs and tailoring activities to suit their individual needs. How does a dog's breed history and personality influence the type of enrichment that they may need? Shay?

I don't tend to look at as much as you might think or as much as other people do. I'm not saying there's nothing in that. 'cause there is, you know, my Labrador of, of loved water. Um,

Food and water.

but my first Labrador certainly never swam 'cause he never went in water deeper than he could paddle. But he loved to splash about in water, but he

Uh.

enough to to, to take the plunge. Uh, and, and you absolutely have to look at the individual, um, because there's more, I think, more difference between individuals of the same breed than there is between breeds.

Hmm.

so I always think that's a, a. I, I think it's good to consider what your dog was bred to do, like, um, border Collies and you know, you just watch 'em. There's, there's five or six that walk where I walk every morning, go around in a group together, and you just watch their behaviour. And it is different to, to most dogs' behaviour the way, the way they stalk and run around and circle background and, you know, so there's a lot in, in genetics, but it's still massively important to look at your individual dog and, and learn what their preferences are.

Yeah.

I, I did some research when I was at university on, on, it was on old faction. And the difference between breeds and

Mm

expect to see is stronger old faction ability, olfactory ability in the breeds that have been bred. detection.

mm

Which was generally the case, but one of the dogs that scored in the test I was doing high as any other dog in the whole thing, um, including caucus spaniels and dogs like that was a greyhound. Um, was able to detect and indicate on, on the scent that a caucus span, you know, at, at the same Um,

Wow.

like that are quite surprise surprised me, you know, you know, I was already ready to write up that they were useless at it and, and, um, you know, I was expecting them not to be that interested, um, back

Yeah,

So it's very, very surprising that a dog, which was bred to, to be a sight hound and to chase what it could see, could. Pick up the detection, you know, the, the olfactory ability of dogs, wherever the breed is absolutely phenomenal, even with a brachycephalic and, and you've got deformities inside and, and all the rest of it, which I've, you know, written up about. still absolutely phenomenal and it, and it still means a, a hell of a lot to them. So you've got, you've absolutely gotta look at the individuals, um, for that

yeah, yeah. All about working with the dog that's in front of you basically,

Yeah, absolutely. And

Yeah.

as they age, it's, I, there's nothing they can't do really. It's, I, well, I think it's just too easy to say, oh no, they're old, they don't need to do anything. And it,

Yeah.

it's, it's about just making things a little bit simpler,

Yeah.

if you've got a, a, a really old dog, you might not wrap food up in a towel. You might just put a soft toy over it and they've just got nudge off or pour it off, or,

Yeah.

an. and again, you can, you can see I've got a passion for olfaction. 'cause again, coming back to the, the olfactory system, the Doug's sense of smell is that the, the, the receptors in the olfactory, um, at the back of the nose in the, in the olfactory recess actually reproduce, uh, themselves every about eight weeks I think it is. So you might think you've got a 14-year-old dog, but the scent receptors are, are, are, are pretty new and active and, and brilliant still, even at that age.

Wow. Um, I think that brings us onto our next question about senior dogs, but what I was gonna say is that dogs may lose their sight or their hearing, but they're never gonna lose their sense of smile. It's their strongest sense, isn't it

Now it's very unlikely you do have some dogs with, with, um, I forget what they call it now, a nod smear, something like that. Uh, which basically, um, the loss of a, the sense of smell,

really? I never knew that.

yeah, yeah. Uh, just like you can get in humans so you, you

Oh yeah,

but it's, uh, I think it's quite rare and,

right.

looking at introducing, you know, other things instead, obviously. Um,

Yeah.

but it's, it's, yeah, very, very important to him. I, I think more so than anything else, other than safety really.

Yeah. Brilliant. So for those senior dogs or those that may have some mobility issues, are there any lower impact enrichment ideas that we can tell our listeners about?

yeah, it doesn't, um, you. I, I'm not sure that age, but, but like dogs who've done, um, agility and that sort of thing, you now have the, the, I I'm saying new sports, but it's been around for a while now. You've got things like hoopers, which is a lot less stress on joints and stuff

Yeah.

yeah. So you can still get out and do stuff. And, and the scent thing is, you know, no dog's ever gonna get bored with, um, sniffing around. Uh, that can make such a big difference. That's got nothing to do with age. You don't have to walk very far. You can even bring scents into the house in, in, you know, I've seen people, um, bring in leaves in, in, in autumn, and for

Yes.

to smell who can't

Yeah.

anymore. I think that the thing to remember there is the, is the safety side of it or the, it maybe not safety, but the dog feeling safe in that if you've got an anxious dog, they might not like the smell of other dogs in their, in their house. So you've gotta be a little bit careful with, with the s sense that you're, you're bringing in. But, and I add. I had a 14-year-old, uh, west Island Terrier. Um, and she was still learning new tricks. Um, I had to do a project for university where they, I had to teach something that, that the dog had never learned before. I had, um, I had to do something with that I'd never done and a totally new thing. And so it is like impossible to think of anything with the Labrador I was training 'cause we'd just done everything. So I had to use Daisy for, for, for, for this, um, shaping exercise. Uh, so she was still learning stuff at that age. So, you know, the brain, you, you've gotta go off the individual, like I say, um, you, there's, there's so much. You can do to make life easier. You know, if, if the dog's going on the sofa, you can get a little stool for 'em to step up onto it.

Yeah.

you know, they, they still wanna lay on the sofa next year, but getting off can be quite, you know, induce quite a lot of anxiety for 'em because they know it might be painful. And, and then I think you can get behaviour problems coming in, in, in, you know, uh, peeing indoors and stuff like that just because it's such an effort for 'em to, to do otherwise. So we've gotta, we've just gotta tailor things really and, and simplify them, um, and just make them a bit easier for the dog so, you know, they

Yeah.

cope and still enjoy life. I think the thing to think really is, is just not to give up on them. It should be for, for the years of joy they've given us, too many people see their old dog as just a bit of a pain really now. 'cause

Oh

they don't get their joy out of him or whatever. And, and really it's a privilege to be able to look after 'em in their, in their later years, I think.

yeah. They're not with us long, so Yeah. I'd hate, I'd hate that.

And like even things like, uh, just come to mind. It's like, um, you, you get the fabric food forages, um, that was introduced a couple of years ago. So if the dog doesn't like, you know, the noise of things that clatter around and all these are all nice and quiet and, and soft things

Yeah.

a snuffle mat, things like that, they could still, you know, there's nothing difficult about a snuffle mat. Most, they actually was over exaggerated in how good they were, because most dogs find them ridiculously easy. But you can imagine a dog, an older dog who's not getting out much. That snuffle mat could be a brilliant, brilliant for them to be finding little bits of food in and foraging around in.

Yeah, definitely. Um, so many guardians of nervous or anxious dogs, um, that struggle with traditional activities. How can enrichment help these dogs feel more secure? Shay,

Well, I think it comes in, and again, I never used to, this is new for me, really over recent years. 'cause I, I, I never

I.

in, in Richmond as, as a, a problem behaviour solver if, you know, I mean, I was just thinking of it as beating boredom. But, you know, it's developed over the years and so now I think that enrichment can be done at home. So you've got anxious dogs or whatever, much that you can do at home with the dog that they're then not experiencing that anxiety outside and it allows them to build confidence and an opportunity to be successful just like food foraging in the garden and, and stuff like that. Uh, and through that. Uh, activity, they gain confidence, you know, you a sense search, um, a find it game or you know, they're going off to, to find something you've hidden in the garden. I think, you know, allows them to build confidence because, you know, they're, they're acting under their own steam. You are not. do this, do that. It's, you know, it is for them to enjoy if they want to. Uh, so it gives them confidence and it also gives them a focus. And they, they've got something, you know, more constructive and, and more useful to do. And it allows us to work with the dog without any real expectation being put on them. 'cause if they've got

Yeah.

they've got anxiety, they've got fears, they've got, you know, that's why I think enrichment is brilliant in, in that area because we are not piling on more pressure. Nobody, probably very few people, they're doing it wrong if they do. But most people aren't doing enrichment activities with any great expectation of what the outcome's got to be like, like you would with obedience or, you know, making the dog sit and stay for 10 minutes. So there's a lot of pressure on dogs when we are teach you those sort of behaviours that you just don't get in enrichment. It's not

Yeah.

how good you are, how good the dog is, how you know,

No.

it's about, you know. Engagement with, with, with the world.

Yeah.

I think it can, um, just help take the pressure off all that and give

Yeah.

else to do. And you can use it out and about, you know, you can, I'm a little bit torn to say it and I'll explain why. So you can do these activities when you're out and about to prevent, um, the dog misbehaving, whatever, being reactive, running off somewhere else, paying attention to something else you don't want 'em to play with by playing enrichment games, doing a scent game. But really, I, I think that brings it into a little bit, rather than it being enrichment.

Mm.

so you, you end up with a bit of a mix. I don't call that enrichment. You are not doing that for the dog's sake to increase. Their, their, their level of en engagement. You are doing it, um, to, to try and avoid something else, which I'm not saying that's not useful, but I don't consider it to be purely enrichment either.

Yeah, totally understand that. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. We are gonna be moving on to our next section, which is all about easy budget friendly enrichment ideas for everyday life. Um, one of the biggest misconceptions is that enrichment has to be ex, uh, has to be expensive. Um, but can you share any simple low cost ideas that guardians, guardians could try at home?

Yeah. And that is absolutely right. Um, I, I do remember one of the problems when I first started the enrichment group is people complaining about that's very thing.

Right?

of the, some of the enrichment, um, toys are so expensive

Yeah.

they're not suitable for all people, or they don't use them in the, in the right way, or they leave the dog, um, not supervised and it gets destroyed. And, you know, some, some of these toys are like 40, 50, 60 pound easily.

Yeah.

So it's not always cheap, but always say that you don't need buy any of those things to give your dog an enriched, you know, an enriching experience.

Yeah.

Some of the things I've done at home is things like, um, toilet rule tubes.

Yeah.

that craze off many years ago as well. Saving them all up, um, putting a little treat in them, folding the ends over and then I, you can just give it to the dog like that, but I saved all mine up and I had, I had hundreds, I've got a video of it somewhere, and then I would just put a treat in about five of them out of, you know, a couple of hundred, and then I'd tip 'em all out on the floor and the dog would search to see which one had the food in. Then, then they're not ripping 'em all open because dogs out aren't that silly. They're smelling which one's got the food in and then opening just that one. So you wouldn't start at that level. You'd start at just having one with food in and then having one with food in and one without, and the dog, you know, finds which one's got the food in and you just build up to that.

such a good idea?

it's totally free. It's stuff you would throw away.

Yeah, like cardboard boxes and packaging. Yeah. The,

boxes is the obvious one. Uh, cereal packaging, stuff like that. You've just sort of gotta be careful, especially with these big boxes that you're gonna get off Amazon and big deliveries. 'cause sometimes they've got staples in them and, excuse me, my voice is going. And, um, so, and you've gotta be careful of the glues that are used. And so you don't want dogs sitting there chewing the cardboard. I think it's fine to, to rip it and tear it and find what's inside it, but I would not use it if they're chewing it. I don't want the glues in their mouth and stuff like that. Um, one of the things I do a lot is, is just, um, getting a piece of food and flicking it across the floor and it's, you know, it's as simple as that. And that has, in behaviour work that has worked. Quite well in for dogs that people have told me won't eat. as soon as you make that food come alive and just flick it across the floor one piece at a time, suddenly it's engaging for the dog and, and, and can help them, um, you know, get their appetite to chase it and eat it.

Yeah.

Um,

that.

the treasure hunt, again, it's just things you're gonna feed them anyway. You, um, you can hide it around the house. Again, it's so simple. Uh, most dogs don't need much teaching with this, but you would just put it down, let 'em see where you're putting it, and they're gonna go and get it. And then you slowly increase that to, to

Yeah.

or more things and, and, and, and putting it further out of sight. And then putting the dog in another room and hiding them all and getting them to come in and, and searching for maybe five or six little pots with food in it. And then with that game. I always have a, have a sort of a finished queue so they know they've found them all, otherwise they're searching around and there's nothing less. So, so I might have a treat in my hand and say, all done. When they're all found and, and

Yeah.

something like that. Um, a handful of food dropped in their toy box. You know, they've gotta find all these bits of food in the bottom of a, a toy box that you might think the dog never uses. So it brings the toy box back to life as well.

Yeah.

short training sessions or play sessions, um, while the kettle boils, why

is more.

for the kettle to boil

Yeah.

can just have a little interaction with the dog. I do a thing where I've got three buckets and I put 'em all together and then I just throw treats across the room or the garden into the bucket, and then the dog has to go and work out which, um, bucket it's in. So it's, it's very, very easy and most of my enrichment is easy, but it's about engagement, you know.

Yeah.

Um.

Yeah.

bottles. What, what? Dog doesn't love a plastic bottle. Um, they just totally free. You're gonna throw it in the recycling later. They love squashing a plastic bottle up. Um, and plant pots. I've never known a dog that doesn't adore an empty plant pot. If you, if you're doing planting in a garden, I dunno what it is about 'em, they just absolutely love the way they, the, the noise they make or, or whatever. Um, plastic, like beak, beaker cups stack in, in, on top of each other with food in between them. You know, you put a treat in the cup and then put another beaker on top,

Yeah,

towels, which we've already covered, covered, um, sniffing, even sniffing the shopping when it comes in. So I, I, I love that now. Uh, other, the dog sniffs around all the shopping bags years ago. We'd have been telling the dog off for that.

yeah.

think how things have changed and it just makes me smile that, you know, I quite like the dog getting in my way now and, and trying to

Sniffing in the bags.

yeah,

I love that.

if they nix stuff and run off, but if they can resist that temptation, it's just involving the dog more really. And, and like I said, it doesn't have to cost anything at all.

Yeah. Just.

I do buy a lot of enrichment stuff, or I have over the years. I don't so much now. But you don't have to, you can, you can have, not about that.

Just, um, sounds like just about using your imagination and just, you know, having fun with it and just, it doesn't have to cost a lot, just things that you've got around the home that you'd maybe throw away.

yeah. Everything before you throw it in the recycling is, is just to think, oh, could I use this? Could, could this, you know, anything anyone's throwing away, I always think, could I use this before it gets thrown away to, even if it's just to hide something in for the dog to find.

Yeah, definitely.

is.

scent work is one of the best ways to engage a dog's brain. We've spoken a bit about it. Are there any, um, easy scent based games that don't require special equipment, so you could just do some scatter feeding and find it and stuff like that?

Yeah, absolutely. And again, I have to come back to. You know, even if you do nothing else, let your dog stop and sniff because that's undervalued. know, it's, that's what dogs need to do, you know. But the, the, the main scent things that I do is either a food search and I call 'em different for things. So the dog knows if they're looking for food or looking for a scent. So I'll do, I actually say to the dog, uh, food search from doing this, but this is just hiding a piece of food. it, and it starts with letting the dog see where you're putting it, and then you might just place it behind a box so they can't see it, but they've seen where you put it and you build that up. You know, the dog's not silly. They, they, they learn that really, really quick. And all you'll do is af as they, as they go off to find it, you say food search and they know the game's on. And then you'll be able to do it with them in a different room, put it wherever you like, or in the garden. And as soon as you say food search, that's what they're looking for. Some food that they're allowed to have. Um, so, so that's a really good one. And then I do it without food as well. Um, and that for me, that involves using catnip 'cause that's the scent I use. it is, it's really cheap. You can get some dried catnip, uh, online and I just put that in a, like a plastic container with a lid on it and whatever item I'm using, it might be like a, a stuffed mouse or something like that. I'll put that in the container so it takes on the smell. I also do this with a 10 pound note, so they go off and find the 10 pound note. But, but then you can do, you don't wanna start with something like a 10 pound note. You wanna teach 'em the game first with something they like picking up and, and chasing. And, and so you get the toy, just throw it for 'em, like, you know, you're playing with it. And that slowly turns into a, a search 'cause then you'll throw it behind something or you'll hide it behind something, or you'll put a box on top of it and, and, and you say, um, find it. And, and they go off to get it. And then you just build it up slowly so they don't see where you've put it and they go and then their, their reward for that or their reinforcer, if you like for that. firstly. Uh, just enjoy doing it. They just, you know, looking for that scent they can just enjoy doing. But just throwing the toy afterwards for them could, could be their reinforcer or you could give a piece of food for them bringing it back to you. I, I, with a dog I've got now, Monty, I, I don't give him any food for going finding it. He just loves doing it and he likes to play more than he likes food. My, my previous dog, Mr. B, he used to get a treat for bringing it back and I did it with lots of things with that. As you can know, once you've taught that you can use that scent on anything. And I, um, a video, um, I. It, it's quite a few years back now, but I put all the books that I had in my collection and there's very many, um, on, on the floor. Some of them are quite expensive, but I put 'em on the floor. But one of them, my own book, I, I made it smell of the Catnip. and then I chose, I told Barney to go and choose his favorite book and then he brings my book back. So, so there's all sorts of fun games and, and like I say, it's about making it fun for the people as well. You know, you

Yeah.

silly little tricks like that and it, and it's just great fun. So, uh, and if you don't wanna buy the catnip, uh, you could just do it with tea bags. You could put some tea bags in, in, in the

Right,

of catnip, and it would take on the smell of the tea bags.

right,

you don't have to buy anything at all if you don't want to.

right.

And then, and then once the dog's learnt that you can do it with a 10 pound note and they learn to bring the 10 pound note back and, and, um, I'm, I've got this idea in mind. He's already going searching for the 10 pound note and bringing it back. But I'm, I'm gonna make a video of sticking it in someone's handbag and then he's gonna look like he's pickpocketing a out the handbag. But I've not made the video yet. that's

Brilliant. Thank you. That's brilliant. Um, why is it so important to give Dogs Choice in their enrichment activities? Show

The whole, um,

I.

you have to go back to, to why we do enrichment. And the whole reason we need enrichment is because of the lack of choice and opportunity.

Mm

more choice there is, the more likely we are, um, to understand and to learn about what the individual dog finds enriching, what's improving their life, what's, you know, bringing joy to them. And that's about watching your own dog. There's no way of. Totally. And, you know, absolutely describing that.

mm.

and, but again, choice brings us back to agency. And is often considered to be the same thing as choice, but it's much, much deeper. And I think agency is fundamentally the feeling of free will. I mean, you can argue about whether free will exists, but that's, that's another level altogether. But I think it's hugely important to have that feeling of free will for the dog so that they can build confidence and, and really, a line that I read in a, in a welfare book that always stuck in my mind is that agency was, um, for developing a mastery of their environment.

Mm.

what, you know, that's, that's where it comes to development and, and things like that. They, they should be able to learn. I. to master their environment. They shouldn't be scared of it. And they're, you know, they're forced into this little box of a world that we put 'em in.

Mm-hmm.

And

Yeah.

I, I, I include agency as a chapter in that puppy book that you showed earlier, um, because it's so important, um, to me, and I think it, it should be something that we consider, um, a lot more, um, going forward is,

Yeah.

appreciation of, of allowing dogs to develop, um, some choices. You know, there's, there's good reasons that, you know, we have to take care of them. Um, they couldn't survive on their own, but we, we need to bring in that, that choice because it's, it, it is about freedom again and safety and, and, and, and, and all the rest of it. Um. There was a, a story, um, Susan Friedman told at a, a behaviour conference that I've, I've written in a book myself at some time. I forget which one. But I remember writing about it you know, you, you pick a puppy up back to puppies again, uh, and you put 'em down the moment they squib or, or move or, or show any indication that they want to get down. And that freedom to, to be able to tell you, I want to get down or, you know, they're not comfortable or whatever is, is what gives the confidence to, for, to allow people to pick them up. 'cause you get so many problems with people gonna pick up a dog and it's like biting at their hands and, and whatever. 'cause they haven't got the ability, they've never been allowed to say, no, I don't wanna do that. So allowing them to say no in the long run, it, it seems, uh, counterintuitive, but in the long run, um, gives you a more confident dog that you know is more likely to say yes to the things you want.

Brilliant. Love that. Just moving on to our final section, couple of questions for this. One is just the link between enrichment and behaviour, and we've touched on it a little bit, but many behaviour problems like excessive barking or destructive chewing are often linked to unmet needs. How does enrichment help prevent or manage these behaviours? Shay.

So I think firstly, enrichment activities, um, begin to fulfill the dog's needs so they're not seeking so much stimulation elsewhere. So you've got that it's. It's really the foundation of behaviour change because if we are not meeting the dog's needs, how can we expect them to meet our needs? And we come across that all the time in behaviour. It's that, you know, we want, we demand the dog to do this, that, or the other, and we are not even coming close to meeting their needs or, you know, that's not always out of, unkindness. Sometimes it's just people don't realize what the dog's needs are. They don't consider life from that point of view.

Hmm.

it can also, like I said, be used as a management tool or in, instead of, um, an alternative behaviour, we introduce an alternative activity. So the dog's got other focuses. Um. And

Hmm.

the, um, like the treasure hunt, uh, or the scent around the garden, rather than a dog standing out in the garden barking. And, and that's one of the things I get a lot. People will write to me and say they let their dog out in the garden and it just bark, bark, bark. And partly that's just become a habit. They, they don't know what else to do. They, you. but it's about going out there and, and, and doing these other activities so that they then connect going out in the garden, into the garden with doing these other activities. And they've got a choice. Are they gonna engage in something they enjoy doing? Are, are they gonna stand there? Uh, uh, barking? Um, seemingly senselessly. I mean, they've, they've probably got a reason. We just don't know what it is. Um. And, and then and again for puppies, you, you would bring in these activities is very important because you've got things like, um, being a Labrador person, Labradors love to chew wood. So if you're gonna bring a Labrador puppy into your house, so a very good idea to have wood, like natural wood chews and, and give them that option of things that they can't. 'cause they, they, every Labrador I've ever come across at that age has been very attracted to chewing wood. And I've lost a few door frames over the

Oh

for,

right. Okay. Brilliant. So for dogs who may struggle with impulse control, how can structured enrichment help them develop better coping skills?

um, well if you're using enrichment, we're meeting a dog's needs and impulsivity should. Um, naturally decline. I think,

Mm

it depends. It depends on, on, on, on the

I.

and the individual dog. But, um, like a dog that gets lots of social interaction and mental stimulation, we'll have a less intense need to act impulsively because they need to be met. So you have that and it's about playing simple games, I think with, um, with a toy, with, um, um, then, so a bit like the game where you teach dogs to leave it, um, things like that, that people now are sort of, they're a bit worried to teach because it's like, oh no, it's sort of unkind for the dog, making them leave it or, you know, not allowing them to have something or, the ideas are well-founded, but they go a bit too extreme 'cause humans do that. Um. So if we take the, the, the game of what I used to use as, um, teaching dogs to leave, we'd just be, to have two toys, exactly the same. And, and you probably know it, you play with one like tug type toy and the dog's going crazy for it. And you can literally just stop. You don't have, you don't need any instructor to, and, and nine times outta 10, the dose will go, oh, what stopped for? And you can bring the other one alive that's behind your back. It's about making it come alive and play with that one. And then what, you know, it doesn't take on long to learn that, that when you stop, oh, they're waiting for you to produce something else and you can start having a, having a a, a, a, leave it queue in there as, as you stop playing or a, or a weight or a whatever you want to call it. And I think little games like that, that, again, you're not putting any pressure on the dog. You're not enforcing this in any way. You are just stopping.

Mm.

waiting for the dog to react,

Yeah.

then making it joyful again. Little things like that. Just getting the dog to, to wait and, and not be so impulsive and, and they, you know, they're, they're learning really that, oh, just that stop and thinking gonna create something else, or, and it just introduces that ability for them rather than it all being so difficult. It doesn't, it doesn't have to be that difficult. It's not about overpowering the dog or, you

Mm.

or being stronger than a dog or demanding. They, they do what we want. It's, it can be a, that, that, that weight or leave, it can start as a simple enrichment game like that.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Um, thank you. Apologies to yourself and the listeners from my dogs. Just going crazy just now. They all just start having a funny couple of minutes, so that was most embarrassing. Hopefully we might be able to get the team to edit that out, but if not, that's, it's just very relatable. It's the yappy hour and we've got dogs yapping in the background. Wow. This episode has been absolutely amazing. We're gonna start wrapping up with some final thoughts and questions. Literally, it's been jam packed with nuggets of information. Um, so Shay, if you could give one, if you could give dog Guardians one key message about enrichment, what would it be?

Again, that's probably something that changes over the years,

Yeah.

at, at, at the moment, I would say that enrichment isn't an optional extra, the way people see it. As, you know, if we want dogs to have a good mental wellbeing, we must give them an enriched life and, you know, a, a life worth living, if you like, and something to live for and enjoyment and joy in, in, in every day. Um. The thing that makes the biggest difference to any dog's life isn't something you can buy. It's you, you know, it, it's, it's how you interact with them. It's be in their place of safety. It's how you incorporate them into your routines. Like, like when you're making a coffee, you go and do something with the dog or when adverts come on the tea. it, it's, it's stuff like that. It, it's you who brings that joy and it, it just reminds me of something I only wrote on the internet I think yesterday. Um, 'cause a picture of, of my old Labrador, Mr. B popped up from three years ago and we was, that when that picture was taken was on our way to the vets. And, and I'd stopped on a, on a field for him to have a toilet and run around before we went into the vets. And we didn't know how seriously I, Lilly was and he had three weeks to live. Um,

Oh gosh. Oh God.

but it's about in, you know, none of us know, you know, we don't know for our dogs. We dunno our for ourselves. So it's about finding. Some joy. You know, we can't all walk around, uh, being joyful every minute of the day, but find some joy every day in, in what you're doing with your dog and bring some joy to their life.

Brilliant. Um, thank you. And for someone who's new to enrichment, what would be the simplest first step that they can take today? I.

I think when you're starting off a good place to start is, is food and just thinking about how you feed them and come up with more interesting ways, like, like we've spoken about, um, without making life difficult, it's not about making life difficult, you know, it's about making it interesting.

Yeah.

just, there's so many ways that you can feed dogs in more interesting ways, and I know some people don't like it and they, and they think it's, they sort of see it from a different point of view and think, oh, it's cruel not to let 'em eat all their dinner in a bowl and, you know, but no dog evolved to, to have their food. No animal evolved to have their food placed in front of them.

Mm-hmm.

that and just make it a little bit more engaging.

Yeah.

have to be difficult.

Brilliant. Uh, Shay, thank you so much. Where can listeners find out more about your work book resources, please. I.

Um, well I have a website, Shay kelly.com.

Love it.

it's a blog, but I don't really do much writing on there anymore. But I keep it 'cause it's got a lot of interesting blogs on it that I've written over the years and all my books are listed on there.

Yeah.

I've got a Facebook page called Shake Elliot, MSC, understanding Dogs. And that's just things I think of to write about. It's not all about training, just it's thoughts and, and, and, and musings really about the dog world and dogs. And, and I've got the Facebook group called Canine Enrichment. Um.

Perfect.

my name on the, on the banner at the top because there's so many groups now with, uh, are using that name. Um, so if you want my one, um, uh, look for my name at the top.

Brilliant. Shay Kelly, the man, the myth, the legend. Thank you so much for joining me on The Yappy Hour powered by Yappy today. I've absolutely loved this conversation with you. Literally, like I said, it's been jam packed for of so much useful information. Um, would love to get you back on in the future. But thank you so much for joining me today, Shay.

Thank you very much. It's been, uh, it's been good fun. I've quite enjoyed it. Uh, I get a bit passionate about my subject, but

I love that your passion oozes out of you, and I love that. Thank you so much.

thank you.

I.

What an eye-opening conversation with Shay Kelly. Here are some key takeaways from today's episode. Number one, enrichment is essential, not optional. It helps meet a dog's natural needs, preventing frustration and behavioural issues. Number two, it's more than just toys. Shay mentioned his five different types of enrichment, and they are. Number one, safety, two food foraging. Three non-food activities, four natural behaviours, and five companionship and bonding. But they don't necessarily have to come in that order, and they all play a role in the dog's wellbeing. Number three, tailor enrichment to your dog's needs different breeds, ages and personalities benefit from different types of activities. So always work with the dog that's in front of you. Number four, it doesn't have to be expensive. You can use household items and DIY games to engage your dog's mind and body. Shay, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your passion with us today. And to all our listeners, if you want to learn more, check out Shay's books and resources on canine enrichment. I also just wanted to apologize if you could hear my dogs having a funny five minutes earlier, it wouldn't be called the yappy hour without having dogs yapping in the background. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review, sharing it with a fellow dog. Parent and subscribe so you never miss an episode of the Yappy Hour. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.