Welcome to the Complete Game podcast where we're all about baseball with Ethan Dungan, owner of glovehound Baseball glove repair shop.

Rick Finley, founder of MDNI Baseball Academy and the creator of George Foster Baseball, the MVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George Foster.

I'm your host, Greg Dungan.

Now let's talk baseball.

All right, well, welcome back to the second half of season one.

We're so excited to be back with you guys today doing another episode of the Complete Game podcast.

We took a little time off in the summer so that everybody could go to tournaments and play ball and George could work on his golf game.

And Ethan had a baby.

Ethan had, well, technically his wife had a baby.

Let's give, let's give credit where it's due.

Yeah.

So we've got got lots of fun things that happen.

So everybody have a good little time off there?

I, I, I did eventful.

When you have that amnesia, you don't remember.

Yeah, George, George was showing up on television quite a bit there and, and.

Dane waiting for my check.

No, but you guys did some nice things down there with the, the 50th anniversary of oh, that was great.

75 team seeing guys hadn't seen it.

Really?

50 years.

Yeah.

Long time.

Wow.

Yeah.

So yeah, they still remember me.

That's what.

Did you see Dan Driessen?

Yeah.

He came all the way from Hilton Head.

Did he really?

That was cool.

Who came the furthest for that one From Dominican?

A couple of guys.

Sarviento Alcala.

So David Concepcion couldn't come because he was had a lung transplant.

But other than that.

Yeah, but have you heard any more about it?

Is he doing well?

He's getting better, but his body adjusting to the new long loan.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, we're still, we'll be praying hard for Davey.

Yeah, that's want to see him do well.

But yeah, they honored Pete over the, over the over the break and that was great.

You guys got to do that too.

So did a lot of things down in.

It's been a big, big red machine summer in Cincinnati.

Now they're one game out of the wild card.

So they have a chance.

They do.

The Mets, they playing like their Met.

They're playing made some good acquisitions at the trade deadline.

Yeah.

If you haven't haven't yet had a chance.

We did a special episode George and I did where he walked through everything at the All Star break.

We started talking about where the Reds have come and kind of what we're hoping to see for the rest of the season.

So check that out.

Yeah, that was a good episode.

All right, so today we're going to talk about switch hitting and we're talking.

About on the field.

Yes.

We're talking about should all players learn to switch hit.

And this is an interesting question because there's lots of different thought on does it, does it help you to be a better hitter?

Does it make you more useful?

What, what implications does this have for giving you playing time, getting you in a batting order, that kind of thing, helping you make a team, that kind of stuff.

So we're going to talk about all that today, but we're going to kick off with name five and we're going to talk about our five favorite, not the five greatest.

We're going to talk about our five favorite switch hitters.

And so Ethan, why don't you start us off.

So when it comes to favorites, the first guy on my list is Jose Reyes.

What?

I love Jose Reyes, man.

He was.

Who is he?

Oh, he played shortstop.

Say you played for his team at one point.

Okay.

But yeah, just a great infielder.

Good top of the order guy.

A guy who led the league in stolen bases three different times.

And in his prime, he really was the embodiment of that kind of utility five tool kind of guy.

Had had a little bit of power, had that speed, had that versatility, I think is a good word.

That's the word.

And then I'm going to jump to another shortstop from a similar a little bit earlier, Jimmy Rollins, a guy who, yes, he's not in the hall of Fame and I don't know if he'll quite.

Is he mvp?

He was mvp, yeah, mvp.

He's got a World Series, four Gold Gloves, three all Stars, a Silver Slugger.

So he's got some accolades and I just don't.

I think he gets overlooked a lot, especially at that time when you've got guys like Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez, you know, that kind of thing.

I think, I think Jimmy Rollins gets the short end of the stick sometimes.

So you do wanted to give him.

Give him his nod.

Another switch hitter, top of the order guy who just had a lot of at bats, led the league in triples four different times.

So if that means anything, then I've got kind of a two for here, but a short two for Billy Hamilton and Tucker Barnhart.

Now the reason I picked them is because both of those guys are switch hitter.

Were switch hitters who then stopped switch hitting for a period of time.

And so I think that'll probably come up later in the episode.

But think their visa ran out.

But I liked watching them when they played.

Billy Hamilton was just an absolute show every time he stepped on out onto that field.

And he's ended up focusing on his left handed hitting later in his career.

And then Tucker Barnhart, a switch hitting catcher and you just, you love to see that.

So quick little, quick little two for there.

My number four guy, I'm gonna go with.

Carlos Santana.

Another guy that I think gets, gets overlooked.

I mean he does.

A guy who's been playing for 16 years.

He's got over 300 home runs.

Just.

No, I don't know, I just think he gets overlooked.

He's came up as a catcher, then started playing a lot of first base.

That's been his main deal, but kind of a guy that every team would, I can't think of a team that wouldn't benefit from having Carlos Santana in a lineup.

Every place he's gone, he's done a good job.

Exactly.

And then last but not least, this is a fun one.

Carlos Zambrano was a switch hitter.

Yeah.

And so nobody who pays attention to a switch hitting pitcher.

Right.

But Carlos Zambrano has light of blue.

Carlos Zambrano has a, has a special place in my heart for just the power he had as a pitcher and how much fun that is.

Yeah.

And I, I, I don't even think I knew that he was a switch hitter.

So that's my, Ask him, he, he'll tell you.

Yeah, but that's, that's my five right there.

That's pretty good.

All right, George, who you got?

I got a couple guys that not really known much.

So.

Not as known as the one that Ethan had.

I'll start with this guy named Mickey Mantle.

Who, who, what team did he fight for?

Eminem.

Eminem.

But this guy.

Accumulated, get the word?

Accumulated.536 home runs.

Hall of Famer.

I mean he, one thing I love about him is power from both sides.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so you know, having that, having a guy like that, you turn him to the right side or left side, doesn't really matter.

And like today's game, you have Dela Cruz.

I think he's, he's more of a consistent hitter from the right side, but he tried to go try to hit the ball in Ohio river from the left side, but he's, he's coming along.

Another guy, he, he led the league, I mean led the world in getting in hits.

Over 4,000 hits.

I don't know when he starts with shooting, but I think his dad encouraged him to do that.

So it's the name of a flower, Pete Rose.

This is a guy, he's going to go out there and win batting titles, hit a lot of doubles and get hits.

You're going to accumulate over 200 hits a season that, you know, that's consistency.

Well and almost as good from one side as the other.

I think he was like just over.300 from the left and.280 something from the right, if I'm not mistaken.

I know they were really close.

Like his averages were really close on both sides.

But this guy had a great eye from each side of the plate.

And from the left side he had probably more hit for a better average, a little bit better.

But I know he hit more home, probably more home runs from the right side, but.

But he had great balance up at the plate.

And you know that when he goes up there, he's going to be a tough out.

This guy is a Hall of Famer also.

Back to Pete.

He should be in the hall of Fame.

And though he had wait two more years, I don't know why they had to wait.

Commissioner.

No, it's not the commissioner.

He doesn't have anything.

Maybe he has something to do with it.

Maybe it's Donald Trump, maybe the veterans committee.

And this guy many don't talk much about, but Ted Williams, I mean, Ted will.

No, Ted Simmons.

Ted Simmons, the catcher for the St. Louis Cardinals.

And he's in the hall of Fame and talking about man on base, you know, Willie McGee, Ozzie Smith and those guys on base.

He's going to drive men.

So he didn't get a lot of focus because Johnny Bench, you know, he competed with Johnny Bench as far as catching, but he was a great hitter from both sides.

And, oh, yeah, there's another guy, he played for the Dodgers, played for the Red Sox.

Great arm.

Reggie Smith.

Many may not remember that name, Reggie Smith, but if you ever fought with the Red Sox or whatever team that he's on, make sure you stay away from him.

You may wake up two days later.

So Reggie Smith, he's number four on my list, but those guys are.

You look at most of those guys I mentioned thus far, power hitters.

But Pete had the most hits of all time.

And this one, I.

Well, yeah, he's a Hall of Famer.

Eddie Murray.

Oh, yeah, that's what I had.

Eddie.

Yeah.

Yes.

I started to save it, but said, no, stay with power.

But this guy, we talk about every team he went to, he did a.

Great job, played for like five different teams, and he was Just consistent.

Well, I want to point something out.

I found this out when I was doing my research for this.

Eddie Murray has over 3,000 more at bats than Mickey Mantle.

And Mickey Mantle still has 32 more home runs.

Amazing.

So that just shows the frequency with which Mickey Mantle was a big home run.

The frequency.

Yeah, we'll go with that, too.

All right.

But yeah, Eddie, I mean, he's one of those guys that like.

I like this phrase, a silent assassin.

Yes.

Cause he is quite quiet.

Yeah, he's quiet, but he's creep up on you.

Look out.

But he played for so long, from 77 to 97.

Yeah.

Wow.

And he has the record for the most career sacrifice flies.

Interesting.

With 128.

Very interesting.

Cool.

Pretty cool.

But last but not least.

So he.

He was a rookie.

And then here, Lee May's at a first baseman, too.

So Lee May's in the outfield talking to one of the other.

Other outfielders.

He's.

And they told Lee, Lee, I think you got to find a new position because you got a young kid coming up there.

Awesome.

Rick, who's on your list, buddy?

Man, these are all, I'll say, four Latino switch hitters.

Oh, I like a theme.

Yes.

Andalay.

Andalay.

I'll start off with our current Francisco Lynn Lindor.

Lindor.

There you go.

Okay.

So I like him.

Very consistent.

Short.

Stop it.

Not even on my list.

I'm sorry about that.

Yeah.

Good.

Does it all.

I wish the Cleveland Guardians Indians would have kept.

Kept them.

Yeah.

Good.

For then.

Guess what?

He would have teamed up with still Jose.

Jose Ramirez, who's a switch.

Oh, I love that guy.

Never another guy that.

He's intense all the time.

He's a little short, little stock spark plug.

A little bit taller than you.

A little bit.

A little bit.

Not too much, man.

So he has a good right punch.

You know, Anderson bound.

Yeah.

Ended Anderson's career more.

I think it messed with mentally.

Yeah, it did because he had a concussion, but he didn't know it.

I mean, it's not.

It's not funny, Rick.

But.

But I think he gave him a concussion.

Did.

So my other ones are Carlos Beltran, Roberto Alomore.

Yes.

A Hall of Famer.

Yes.

How could I forget him?

Yes.

Carlos Beltran.

And he came up with the Royals when he first came up.

Yeah.

That playoff he had with the Astro, that's what.

Yeah, that's what put him on.

Yes, that's what put him on.

Roberto Alomar.

And he could feel he had a lot of gold Gloves.

He can hit.

Yeah.

So the other two, Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go.

Yes.

The Yankees duo, man, some good stuff there.

I didn't even think of those guys.

Yeah, so good.

Okay.

And Tucker Barnhart used to coach against him.

I remember coming up.

So he used to play for the Indiana Bulls.

Right.

And our team used to play against their team a lot.

Several times, probably about four or five times.

And he was a switch hitter.

He played shortstop also at that time.

And I think the last time we played him, that's when he was behind the plate.

And I remember, yeah, I've been a.

Switch hitter and been a catcher.

Been a switcher.

Been a catcher.

Being a left handed hitter.

Been a catcher.

Advantage y.

Yes, definitely.

And then this is your tenth.

No, it's not.

And also I wanted to say my, My son Ricky was a switch hitter that played with other switch hitters in the same lineup.

And one was Jacob Mayot West.

His, his granddad, I mean granddad was Lee and Jacob.

In high school.

He hit against Mason, hit two home runs, both from each side of the.

There you go.

Yeah.

And another last one was Mel Rojas Jr my son Ricky and him.

So my son Ricky is a switch hitter also.

And Mel Rojas is, I think, Cookie Rojas.

Cookie.

Mel Rojas.

So they played in the major leagues and that was teammates that he, you know, was in the lineup.

Both, all of them were switch hitters.

So that's it for me.

Cool.

Very good.

Well, the theme of my five is what's left?

What's up?

Okay.

We did miss at least one significant.

There are a lot of them out there.

Yeah, the biggest, the biggest one, the biggest one we missed was Chipper Jones.

Yeah, I thought one of you would have that.

Oh, there you go.

But I went with the Latino theme.

All right.

So, yes, it is Chipper.

Chipper Jones.

Chipper was a, was a heck of a hitter.

Yes.

That's.

That's probably the first guy I think of when I, when I think switch hitting.

Yeah.

I mean, just, just a powerhouse down there in Atlanta.

But he's another one of those silent assassins.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then a couple of guys who are more known for stolen bases than, than things.

Other things.

But Vince Coleman.

Yeah.

Switch hitter.

Yes.

And Tim Rains.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Tim Reigns.

Tim Ray.

Yeah.

You know, you think about it.

Well, he was, he was a switch interview.

Yeah.

He also had over 800 stolen bases.

I mean, you know, there's one, you.

May mention it, but in today's game, if you need one.

Today's game.

A current switch hitter.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Like Ali, Danny Cruz.

Yeah.

No, he.

Leading the league, Leading the world in home run.

I had him on my list, too.

Yeah.

And that brings up a good point.

I. I also found this because I wondered if there are some positions that have more switch hitters than others.

And.

And that's a hard thing to quantify because you have so many different levels, guys in and out and that kind of thing.

But I did think it's interesting that there are eight major league catchers who are switch hitters who have played 50 or more games in the big leagues so far this year.

So you've got Cal Raleigh, Patrick Bailey, Jonah Heim, Victor Caratini, Adley Rushman, Edgar Carrero, and Kebert Ruiz.

And then also Jose Herrera.

So those are.

There's a. Yeah.

I was surprised.

I didn't expect that many.

But then, you know, Cal Rowley, really?

Yeah.

But he's.

He's brought notoriety.

Oh, yeah.

The other guys I'm watching the game, I may not see, sure.

Them batting from either side, but.

Yeah.

He was batting from both sides in the Home Run Derby.

Yeah.

I mean, that's impressive.

That is impressive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The other.

My current.

My current favorite switch hitter is Ellie De La Cruz.

So I like to watch Ellie do what he cruising.

Ellie's doing better this year than I've seen.

Yes, yes.

Yet in his career.

You can see the mental development happening at the plate.

Yeah.

In the field, everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I dig that about Ellie De La Cruz.

He's cool.

The other thing I wanted to add about.

About Mickey Mantle that I thought was really interesting when I was doing the list and doing my.

My research, you know, the interesting thing about Mickey Mantle, not only was he amazing, but the pressure that must have been on him because he was following Joe DiMaggio.

Yes.

So, like.

Yeah, Joe DiMaggio is like one of the greatest names of all time.

And he's.

He.

He's the next center fielder.

That's like being the next catcher that follows Johnny Bench.

Right.

I mean, goodness gracious.

Poor Bo Diaz.

Yeah.

So, you know, all that pressure on him and Mantle delivers in spades, you know, with a stellar career and lots of accolades.

He just, it reminds me of going from like Derek Jeter to Alex Rodriguez.

You know, he's like Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers kind of deal.

Yeah.

You know, you got guys, one guy following another guy with all the pressure on him, and he comes through, which is, you know.

Well, most of Those guys, they don't look at it as precious a challenge.

And Mickey, man, they had a lot of help there.

That's what is great about with that Yankee team.

They were there to support one another, but some other teams, they may be a little jealous of this.

But DiMaggio, I met him, he's a team player.

What was it like growing up then watching, watching like Mickey Mantle play on, on television?

Like, how cool was that?

It was great.

I mean, you have a Mickey Mantle, you have a Willie Mays in another league and, and you had great hitters to watch all the time.

Then you, then you have, when you get spoiled, so you go watch like Ojie Smith, you don't appreciate it as much because I was, I was more power minded.

Right.

And with Mickey, he didn't, when he, when he took a swing, he didn't miss.

Yeah.

And, but he was devastating up there at the plate.

But we didn't talk about the fact that he's well rounded.

He had good speed too.

Good arm.

Got a good arm.

Yeah.

In a, in an era heading into an era where the American League didn't have, you know, didn't have the, the, the power and the, the talent that the National League had, they're heading into.

Like when you started coming up and having, through the six late 60s and mid-70s, you know, you guys were talking, you've mentioned several times about, you know, the, just the sheer dominance of the National League.

Right.

Well, you saw that in the All Star Game.

So the commissioners started to try to get more balance.

Yeah.

And, but I just.

It changed.

It keeps changing.

People don't really realize the big change.

So you go like the Cardinals, you know, they're built on speed.

The Dodgers built on speed.

And you go to.

Well, the Reds, they were built on power, so they started getting more balance.

And you saw when he got a Joe Morgan over, got a Geronimo with a Joe Morgan.

So we had more speed.

We had speed, balance, I mean speed and then we had power.

So many different ways that team put together could beat you in different, different ways.

And was, was Pete the only switch hitter in the, in the grade eight lineup?

Yeah, he was, it was the only one.

Pedro Bon probably claimed that he was a switch hitter, but he long as he did well on the mountain.

But Pete was, But that, that create balance with the number of left handers and right handers in that lineup.

Yeah, that, that lineup was more, had.

A lot of, yeah.

Left and right.

A good mix of left and right.

Rather than having people.

Well, it was a protection and complimentary.

So for or Tony Perez, myself and Johnny Bench, you, you have a row.

I mean, you have a, A Griffey and you have a Joe Morgan.

Those guys, those guys hit left, lefty, lefty pitchers, well as right handers, but they had speed.

And I say this many times as his speed says a power.

And they like, well, how are the speeds of the power?

Because you the catcher going to call more fastballs.

Right.

And so you have guys, like I said myself, Perez and Bench are fastball hitters.

So it's like for me having a carrot crate.

That's my favorite dessert.

So if that fastball is coming, it's not going to pass.

Right.

Cool.

My last one, my number five, just because I just love this guy and I love.

Anytime you get to talk about this guy is Bobby Bonilla.

Oh, boss, what's it, July 4th?

Yeah, yeah.

What a great contract.

The greatest negotiation in all of sports history as far as I'm concerned.

Greatest on his part, but.

Yes, but the.

I don't know who was there, but the Mets thought, oh, yeah, we don't want to get him out of here.

That's the way to get him out of here.

You know, go ahead.

We'll give you this.

You should have negotiated your deal with the Mets that way.

That would have been great.

I needed that.

I needed that agent.

Yes.

That contract goes through 2034, I believe.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's written like, he gets paid till Jesus comes.

Yeah.

Goodness gracious, that's awesome.

Years or something.

That is great.

Just sit back and here's my annuity.

30, 40.

So you finished the season last year exhausted from all the travel and the tournaments, and you tossed your gear in a bag where it's been sitting all winter.

Now you're ready for another year.

But your favorite glove that fits just right is an error waiting to happen.

The leather is dry, the laces are brittle, and this year you're on a new team with new colors.

And it sure would be cool if it matched.

Well, wouldn't it be great if you had a glove guy who could help you out with that?

You do.

His name is Ethan and he owns Glovehound baseball glove repair shop in Fairfield, Ohio.

Just contact him@glovehound.com and upload pictures of your glove.

He'll give you a call back to talk it over and then you can send it in for a repair, relays, recondition, whatever you need.

If you're in the area, you can even just stop by the shop that way you don't have to bother with shipping.

And a lot of times he can even, even fix it while you wait.

Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno All Star, Nakona, he's seen them all.

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Last year he worked on a glove that Jose Trevino used in the World Series.

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You can find Glovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and on the web@glovehound.com you're only going to get busier.

So reach out today and give your glove the love it deserves at Glovehound.

So okay, I want to move into the, I want to move into the main thing here and we're going to talk about, I got some questions for us.

So we're going to talk about different aspects of switch hitting.

So the first thing I want to know is what are, what are the advantages in your opinion of being able to switch hit?

For me I feel that the ball's coming towards you.

You're say a left handed pitches to me being right handed.

So the breaking ball is coming towards you and vice versa with a lefty, a right hander so you get a chance to see the ball coming towards you.

But when the ball's going away, I think a lot of guys have a bigger challenge.

And plus you, you, you need to try to hit to the opposite field all the time.

But now you have better balance that way back to the Cardinals.

You know, you and when you bring in a pitcher you don't know, you should bring a right hander in or left hander in because you have such good balance up there and, and back to Mickey Mantle or another guy we didn't mention he learned how to switch hit when he was in a major league level was Maury Wills.

But just being able to get on base for him because his, his forte was stealing bases.

So I just feel that the breaking ball is coming towards you.

You have a better chance.

When you're talking about.

Let's talk about two different kinds of breaking balls for.

So let's talk about the curve versus the slider.

Is there, is there an advantage what is there, is it an advantage for both of those pitches to be opposite.

Hand primarily the primary, that slider because it looks like a fastball then all of a sudden has that break on it, the curveball, it's, you can see it longer but still the one that's more of a thread is the slider.

Feeling like it's always better to have it running into you than away from it.

Right.

But you got to learn how to hit it.

Some of these guys, I don't know, they, they hate themselves.

Got to keep hitting themselves in the shin or the knee.

Like yelling, you know, he broke his kneecap.

Yeah, like I said, I wanted to tell him, you know, I know a way you can prevent doing that.

What are some other advantages that you have from, from switch hitting?

I know that I have very limited experience with it, but I do remember and I was never formally trained to do it, but I do remember having a hard time hitting right handed for a while.

And so I thought I'm just gonna see if I go in here and sort of teach myself to hit left handed, just put myself in a batting cage and keep doing it until I figure it out.

And it actually, I believe it helped my right handed hitting by doing that.

Yeah, I know for me, I was always a right handed hitter, but there was a time especially I always struggled pulling my head.

Always, always, always from the.

I don't know, from the time I started to the time I finished probably.

And switching neck brace for that.

Well, I remember Rick had had me biting my shirt at one point just trying to keep my head down.

Did we create some sort of weird sort of sling?

We tried to, we tried to, tried.

To build something to keep your head.

Maybe a taser, but we would.

Because I pull like this.

But if you're hitting left handed, then you're not even looking at the ball so you have to look the other direction.

And so I found that very helpful.

And then also kind of going hand in hand with doing isolated top hand bottom hand drills with a short bat, it just, it forces your hand to do something different and to train it in a different way.

So I definitely found that it helped help my head and definitely help my hands and probably even out my hips a little bit as well.

Yeah, it helped me to be able to see what the ball was doing.

To be able to see the spin, to be able to see the drop, to be able to see it just from a different angle helps me flip over to the other side and then see it from that perspective as well.

It gets you into.

Sorry, we get you into the lineup more often too because we talked earlier about if you're, if you're left handed, left handed hitting catcher or switch hitter, you're going to get a chance more playing time.

So let's, let's take a minute here and explain the particulars of switch hitting because some people might not know how this works.

Ethan, we Were talking earlier and you mentioned the fact that they had to create a rule.

Talk about that.

So the rule that had to be created was actually for switch pictures, which by association kind of affects switch hitting.

But my, my.

From all the research I can find, my best understanding is that a hitter can switch whenever he wants, as long as it's not within in the middle of a pitch.

So he can switch every pitch if he really wants to.

And there's a story of a guy in Japan who does that every pitch, allegedly.

But I'll read you here the.

The rule for ambidextrous pitchers.

And then we could talk about how that applies.

It says a pitcher must indicate visually to the umpire in chief, the batter and any runners, the hand with which he intends to pitch, which may be done by wearing his glove on the other hand, while touching the pitcher's plate.

The pitcher is not permitted to pitch with the other hand until the batter is retired.

The batter becomes a runner, the inning ends, the batter is substituted for by a pinch hitter or the pitcher incurs an injury.

If in the event a pitcher switches pitching hands during an at bat because he has suffered an injury, the pitcher may not for the remainder of the game pitch with the hand from which he has switched.

The pitcher shall not be given the opportunity to throw any preparatory pitches after switching pitching hands.

Any change of pitching hands must be indicated clearly to the umpire in chief.

Confusing.

Yeah.

So he can't.

He can't fake an injury.

And then.

But when this really came into effect was when Pat Vendetti came up because he was really the first switch pitcher.

And so there's a whole.

There's a couple instances, you can find videos of it, where there's confusion because the pitcher and the batter both just keep switching back and forth.

And then until the umpire just makes it makes a declaration, whether it was according to the rules or not, just to get the game moving.

That.

Sorry.

That started back with when Burt Campenaris played every position.

And so he's ambidextrous.

So now you have Roy White is switch hitter.

So they kept switching according to what the pitcher would do.

So the umpire says, somebody gotta declare.

Yeah, yeah.

So now the.

It's all based on the pitcher.

So the pitcher has to declare, and then the batter gets to choose based on that, which I think is fair because hitting's hard and, you know, give the advantage to the batter if you're going to give it to anybody.

But that in a nutshell, is.

Is how it works.

Cool.

So generally, so you can Switch during an at bat.

Although generally you tend to see people stick with one side or the other for, for their at bat.

I can't think of any time I've ever seen it.

But not, not during a bat.

But I.

One guy that I.

Because we played a lot on the same team, Pete Rose, he would bat right, left, left handed against Randy Jones.

Okay.

And left, Randy's a lefty.

So that was different because he felt that he could had a better chance hitting against Randy Jones from the left side compared to right side.

That would be interesting to ask like a handful of switch hitters.

Like what makes you decide whether you're going to choose opposite hand the pitcher or same hand as a pitcher?

And why would you choose same hand?

Yeah, it's almost, it's almost always opposite.

But I mean, I guess there are.

Reasons, a few exceptions.

And there was another, I forget his name that he.

Oh, it plays for the Dodgers now they play for the Cardinals.

Get his name.

Tommy Edmond.

Edmond.

Yeah.

So now he, I.

They had him stop switch hitting just to hit from one side.

And that brings me to the next point which is are there reasons why a player should not learn to switch.

Hit if he's struggling?

No, the, the number one is that if you, if you have more power from the right side and you don't want to switch it because you're going to go to the side that doesn't have as much power, you're going to f. You're going to have more at bats from that side.

But if, to balance, if you don't have a lot of power from the right side and going to the left side going to give you an advantage to make contact.

And plus as Rick was saying, if the, if you're not making much contact, you know, I tell someone maybe you are left handed.

Well, like take some, take for instance, we'll take your career for instance.

See, when you're in there and your, your job is to move runners and hit for power.

Why, why did you never decide, hey, I think I want to be a switcher.

I just, I was so powerful from the right side, I didn't want to make a change.

Even though Michael Jackson said you got to make a change.

But I, I just felt stronger from the right side and going to the left side, my power's not going to be as strong.

Do you, do you think it's, do you think it's better for a natural right hander to switch hit over a natural left hander learning to switch it with the idea that.

Yeah, because Lefties are so they're prized anyway for that ability.

So is it even worth it for a natural lefty to.

To try or do you.

What do you think about.

I would go towards the natural lefty being a switch hitter because now he's.

There's a lot of lefties, left handed pitchers who have a nasty slider.

So being able to be on that right side, it's more becoming than having that lefty throwing you from your left side and so it'll help your more quality at bats.

Plus I suppose if you're almost always going off of opposite hand then by default you're going to take more left handed at bats because there's just more right handed pitchers.

Right.

Right.

So I guess if you look at it from a ratio a natural righty is going to take more left handed at bats because of the right handed pitching.

Right.

So it would be maybe harder to learn.

You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah, yeah, interesting.

But you're going to have to work harder.

Need to say but now when I work with kids especially under maybe under 10, I just.

This is give it a try.

Yeah.

And it create balance been more symmetrical.

So but I just find that to give them a chance to.

They may want to be this one kid, you know he had a tryout.

I said okay, he's a natural right hander.

I said I want you to bat right handed in the tryout and choke up on the bat.

Did he listen to me?

No, he batted left handed but he hit the ball well.

So sometimes not sometimes, but if you have confidence in it that that goes a long ways.

Is there a targeted age that you recommend trying that or like do you need to be a certain age because if you're too young it's intimidating, it's overwhelming or what are your thoughts on.

That at the age of maybe 8?

Well, you can do it earlier but, but off the, off the batting tee.

But throwing to them soft toss or live throw, maybe eight years of age and, and from then it's.

It depends on how, how much that kid want to work at it.

It's going to take longer as you get older.

So that's why at 8, 8, say 8 to 12, they just having fun doing it.

They're not as serious about it.

So if they miss a few balls, you know it's not going to bother them.

But when you get like 14 or 15 and you're not making contact with soft off, they get discouraged.

Sure.

Yeah.

There's a, there's that age when you're when you're young enough that everybody's like, oh, he's trying, it's cool.

And then there's, then there's that age where they're like, oh, look, he thinks he's a switch hitter.

You know, it's like, okay, now we're being more serious and you're risking the at bat, so.

Yeah, but the other one I would add, if the guy has great speed and he's a natural right handed, I want to put him on the left side.

So teach him how to bunt for bunting.

Yeah.

Well, back to Billy Hamilton.

You know, this a guy I don't.

It, it boggles my mind why in spring training they just get a pitching machine just to let him hit the ball to the left side on the ground, hit more balls in the air so he hitting the ball more, more balls in the air at the time than Joey Votto.

You gotta hit the ball on the ground.

So learn how to hit the ball to the left side.

Because he was, I think it was a natural right hander and left, left side.

He thought he was a power hitter.

But hit the ball like Mari Wills did the same thing.

Hit the ball on the ground and run.

Cool.

I'll throw another real quick bone out there for, for trying to decide if it's something you even want to try.

One of the kids that I played with growing up who was a switch hitter played hockey and he really just had superb hand eye coordination.

He was a very sure handed middle infielder and he was able to switch it just from, from that hockey experience being able to kind of go both sides.

So if, I suppose if you've got the coordination and to give you that confidence, give it a shot.

Sure.

Are there.

Let's talk about what do you do if you have a switch hitter on your team.

So let's put our coach hat on here for a second and what are some of the offensive ones, ways that you would use a switch hitter?

And then we're going to talk about what are some of the defensive things you do when the other team has a good switch hitter.

So let's talk about you've got a good switch hitter on your team first, where do you put him in the lineup?

How do you utilize him?

How does you know?

How do you make the best of that?

Depends on if he has good speed, he's going to be on top of the lineup and if he has good power, he's going to be in the middle lineup.

So it's going to be indicative of running speed.

And bat speed.

I mean I've watched that be of incredible value to the Reds this season because teams do not want Ellie De La Cruz hitting left handed.

So they will, they're constantly bringing in a lefty, a lefty to make him hit right handed.

And then I've seen Francona turn around so they'll bring in the new guy to face De La Cruz, but with the three batter minimum that that guy has to either stay in or finish the inning.

So then I, it's, I've seen Frank Kona take whoever's behind Ellie and swap him out with, if it's not already a righty to swap out a lefty with a righty to get that because the pitcher is left handed and he.

Has to stay in there, become advantage for the Reds by them.

Like you said, that three, three battered minimum unless at the end of the inning.

So if he's got, oh, I don't know if he's got Lux, Lux or Fraley and they're hitting behind De La Cruz, then they'll pull him out, put in, you know, Santiago Espinal or something like that, give a, give it a righty look against that pitcher.

So I mean that's been of incredible value for the Reds this season.

Yeah.

But back to the Cardinals, I mean they had, it doesn't really matter because they had so many switch hitters in that lineup.

Created great balance.

When I had been with the, the Reds, I said if I went to another team, I would love to go to the Cardinals because they have these guys that we call them Roadrunners because they can, they're fast athletes.

And so I didn't have to hit a home run because Tommy Her, I think he hit 10 home runs that one year and he drove in 110 RBIs so there are a lot of guys, a lot of times they're going to be on second or third and when the ball said to me for McGee or Audrey Smith, get it, get it in, they're going to go try to go to second base.

So okay, so if the other team has a really good switch hitter, how do you work that?

Other than just trading out your pitchers, what else can you do?

Just looking at the higher percentage, you know, which side is he going to hurt you the most?

And so like back to Della Cruz, they, they feel they're going to hurt, hurt the team the them the most.

By batting left handed, he's showing more power so he's bringing the lefty in.

And even though we may get a hit, but it's not going to be more as damaging compared to a home run.

So.

And then you really look at a guy back to Pete Rose though he didn't really pull the ball much batting left handed.

So I remember playing with the Giants and they wanted me midway coming in midway because he had line drives.

He didn't really get the ball, say loft hit fly balls, but more line drives.

So you, you change your, your defense knowing that he's just going to hit line drives.

You, you move the defense accordingly.

Or like a Della Cruz, maybe he's going to hit to the right side.

Sure.

From the batting right handed.

Well, let's talk about that as far as the defense goes.

So like you're playing left field knowing that the other team's got a switch hitter.

It's important that you know what that person is capable of and likely to do from either side of the plate.

Right.

So from when they come up because you know it's seeing them from one side may be entirely different from where you play on the other side.

But I watch for me, I watched him batting practice so he can see truly you can see where he is strong side is and where he's going to hit it.

And they may say this guy's a pull hitter, but I want to know if he's pulling in the air, putting on the ground.

So if he's pulling in the air, I'm going to play deeper.

If he's pulling on the ground, then I may play shallow.

So that makes a big difference in a key situation.

So you gotta go out there and do your homework.

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Okay, so moving, moving on to skills and drills here.

Let's talk about how should a player learn to switch hit?

Like, okay, is there a proper way to teach this?

Because, I mean, I learned by just standing in there and fooling around with it until I figured out how to do it.

But I don't think I ever did it overly well.

I certainly never did it in a game.

So from you, from your perspective, T.

Work, flips, front toss, live bp, use wiffle balls, whatever you need to do.

Golf balls, man, you use whatever.

I think I, I taught my, I taught my son, I taught Ricky when probably about 3, 4 years old and then just gradually built up and then just let him hit.

And usually when you having fun, just having fun with a kid and just doing front toss and throwing, they, they'll figure out their hand eye coordination, man.

You don't want to put too much on them where they feel like it's a job, they overthinking.

You want that natural reaction and all of that to work for you, man.

And then as they grow, then you start forming their skills a little bit more better and you know.

Well, let me ask it from this perspective so I can specifically remember the first few times trying to hit left handed, I would fly way open because my right on.

When you hit right handed, your back side is the power side.

And when you switch it around now your strong sides in the front and your backside or my backside was underdeveloped.

So do you have any specific drills that focus on maybe either strengthening the backside or closing off the front side?

What happens is that it all starts with your eyes, which is your, your strong guy and your weak eye.

Okay, so think about it.

You're from your dominant eye.

Exact.

Thanks.

And, and so what happens is that you can, you know, a lot of kids pull off, but now guess what?

When you switch.

So now your, your top hand, which is your strong hand is now it's your bottom hand.

Right?

Okay.

So now like I, I just.

So for instance, Ricky is an open.

He hits open from his left side.

That's from the right Side, from the left side.

He's more close.

Yeah, I wonder about that.

Yeah, he's more closed.

So guess what?

His mechanics were simple, more simplified.

Okay.

Yeah, he didn't have too many, but as he moved up, like once he got to college, I think one of the scouts from the Arizona Diamondbacks, I remember the email, he says, tell Ricky his job is to get on base.

It ain't trying to hit home runs.

And, and because he was trying to yank the ball, trying to be like everybody else, Mel Rojas, now he's like, nah, man.

You know, he's got speed, you know, hey, hit line drives, put the ball on the ground, run, you know, so.

And, and I think being a switch hitter, like George was saying, know your strengths either.

Power, fast, even.

Even with power, you can still doubles and triples.

Might not be a home run hitter, which he's.

He's not.

So just know the, the, the player strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah, I think what you're saying about, about top hand would be really important because.

Because otherwise when you switch your, your, that stronger hand is just going to pull that bat weight way around, you're.

Not going to get it.

You're not going to get any extension.

Nope.

So I, I could see that that would be.

You really got to work on top hand and bottom hand because you got to turn it around.

That's why it's, it's important that you spend a lot of time.

You notice that there's more Latino switch hitters than there are American League switch hitters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With the academies there, they really work on that.

Yes, they really work on it.

And it's just, just the, just natural.

Some of it is just natural hand, eye coordination, athletic ability and stuff like that.

But like George was saying, I do the same thing too.

Just let kids just try.

They say, can I switch?

Like, yeah, go ahead.

At that age, you know, you're, yeah, you're developing, but different things.

I mean, like Rick was saying is, you know, do it over and over and over again.

Take a. I say tennis ball because it doesn't cost, doesn't cost that much.

Straighten up each hand.

You can do push ups.

Push ups gonna really help.

Take out boxing is gonna really help.

So it's hand and eye coordination that, that's involved and going from there.

One of the things, you know, again, my whole, my whole baseball experience was low tech.

Okay.

It was the 80s.

We lived in the boonies.

We, we.

It was just low tech.

So one of the first ways I started messing with it was taking a Broomstick and going outside and learning to hit rocks from the left hand side.

You can toss it up and hit.

Right.

One of the things that I struggled with on the left hand side was my vertical.

Being able to judge how high or low that ball was.

Yes.

That's throwing it up and making sure making that contact over and over and over again was, was helpful.

And you can do it by yourself and it doesn't matter.

So I just go outside and sit and hit rocks with a broomstick or.

And that's another thing I know.

And especially in last.

A lot of last season's episodes we advocated for for kids doing more practice type more.

I'll get it out.

Rather not necessarily running practice, but running more drills.

And there's a lot to be learned from hitting Fungo especially especially on a Fungo bat where it's longer and the barrel is is smaller.

Man.

Hitting.

I can, I can definitely see how, how learning how to do that back control.

I just did it the other day with the kid and he was swinging and pulling his head.

I said, this is the easiest drill to do.

You don't need anyone.

And if you do it at home, use some wiffle balls.

Yeah, the soft toss drill.

Yeah.

Because you got to keep your head still.

And so they get frustrated.

I said, you got plenty of time, man.

But the key thing is you got to keep your head still, man.

The thing I like about the rocks in the broomstick is you don't got to go chase them.

No.

Right.

So, you know, I always I was always a big one for it.

I want to hit stuff.

You hit your yout a window.

Don't hit it.

Don't hit it.

Well, you got in the field.

You got in the field where it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

You know, being able to.

We had this big field across the street from the house where I grew up.

And we just sit there and hit him across the street.

That's fine.

You don't have to go.

You don't have to go chase them.

Which is nice.

Small, small rocks.

Big thick rocks.

Yeah.

Not too big of a rock.

The other thing was just learning to do things left handed.

Like, you know, give yourself a chance.

Eat dinner one time and use all of your silverware with your left hand.

You want to feel real stupid.

Brush your teeth left handed.

Oh, my gosh.

When you learn to do common things left handed, all of a sudden your body starts thinking, right, oh, I can do this.

I can do more than this.

Wake up that side.

Yeah.

Everybody first thinks about, well, I'm going to write my name.

That we're writing is really hard.

Okay.

So start with, start with something simple like I can feed myself left handed, you know.

Do you have any lefties in your family?

My, my aunt is left handed and I have an uncle who's left handed.

My sister.

Okay.

Yeah.

My dad tells stories of my, my great grandfather who was, who was quite the ball player and his day, he was completely amber dextrous.

And so he would just, he would, it didn't matter what, what glove.

He would walk left handed and walk right.

Yeah, he just throw me a glove and, and he would just play.

And if, if he had to switch gloves, he'd just switch gloves and then just throw the other hand.

It wasn't any big deal.

And so ambidextrous things have kind of been things that we've learned in our family over the years, like fishing.

We all learn, we all learn to fish both ways because.

Well, because here's the thing.

When you're, when you're fishing, especially if you're looking for reels, it's easier to find left handed reels because fewer people want them.

For real.

Yeah.

So if you want, if you want, if you want to find that hard, that hard to get reel.

You know, there was a while there where Shimano made a reel called the Corrado and it was hard, really, really hard to find.

But you could find the left handed versions because, you know, fewer guys want.

I never knew that it was a left handed, right handed real.

Yeah, there is which side the, which side the reels on.

Okay.

You know, so we dad had the left handed ones.

They were easier to get and we, so we learned, when we learned to pitch and flip, we learned to do it, do it left handed.

That's good, that's a good exercise first.

Because otherwise you got to cast with your right hand and then switch hands and reel with your right hand.

And it's inefficient.

So if you could just cast with your left hand and reel with your right and you don't ever have to switch hands, you can get a lot more casts in.

And when you're fishing bass tournaments and every time you put it in the water is one more shot.

Yeah.

So, so when, when I came up, it was learn to do it this way because you get more time with your bait in the water.

And so there were just things like that growing up where it was.

Okay, well, so we'll just learn to do it left handed instead of right handed.

I do want to, I want to Pose a question to you, George.

Point at me, don't point at me.

You want me a gesture to you.

When it comes to playing outfield, are there, are there different positions in the outfield that you would prefer one handedness over the other?

I think you see left and right handed players playing all positions.

Playing all three positions.

But the reason I ask is because there's a Yankees prospect named Anthony Siegler who is a switch fielder and so he catches right handed but plays left field left handed.

So is there an advantage to a handedness in the outfield, do you think?

Just visualizing.

I like, I like that left hander if he's.

When you go into.

Yeah, but you had how you go into the corner to get the ball.

I think that a left handed throw is going to have an advantage.

Yeah.

Going playing left field compared to how the right hander goes in, like has his back turned to the, to the target.

So the left hander had just been able to go in and spin.

So because I was coaching a team and I changed, the guy who was in left handed throw was in right field and I put him in left field and I felt that he had.

It seemed like it was awkward for him to play right field and so put him in left field.

That was a good question, but a good advantage having that left handed thrower.

Some other things that help to, to coordinate both sides.

Learn to play an instrument, especially learn to play guitar.

Learn to play piano.

Not just like playing the radio.

Rick.

Yeah, when, when I, when I started learning to play piano, it really made a difference with the left hand.

It makes your left hand a lot more coordinated and you feel more comfortable doing something with the left hand.

So, you know, play a two handed instrument of some sort, some sort of string instrument.

I like that.

Or something like that.

It will, it will help you.

Saxophone, you know, trumpets, not so much because it's pretty much one hand, but you do have to work slides and things like that.

But something like playing piano or learning percussion or drumming, you know, those kinds of things can be very.

Guys like Reggie Smith, they were.

They love hitting the drum, so that'd be good.

Yeah, it can be very helpful in training that left hand to do more than just wear a glove.

Level swing, let it travel, wait for your pitch, be aggressive out there.

It's no wonder young players get confused at the plate.

What if your son or daughter could learn not only how to hit the ball, but also where to hit it, when to hit it there, and why.

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Apply@georgefosterbaseball.com okay, so wrapping it up here.

Do we have any last thoughts on.

On switch hitters and how it pertains to young players or coaches?

I think that if a player wants to switch, hit, get as many reps in a game.

Yeah.

Because that's the only way you're going to know for sure if you can or can't do it.

Yeah.

So that's what experiment young, I guess.

Yeah, experiment again.

What do you have to lose?

But you gotta get coaches to not think of their ego and let the kid go ahead and just do it.

Especially if you got a lead or something like that.

Or if you're losing really bad too, I suppose in a blowout game.

So the blowout game and you have that, the time limit.

So have the kid go up, practice, switch hitting then because you want him to make it out well.

So yeah.

So to, to finish up here, I'm going to kind of drag my soapbox out here for just a second and go back to playing outside with your friends and playing sandlot and playing pickup games.

These are the places where you can try things out.

There's no pressure.

You're not on the field.

The tournament isn't happening.

This is again, when you play nothing but tournaments, everything is the playoffs and there's no room for experimentation.

If you play, when you play in a league, you have a little bit more room, but you still are really trying to win that game, trying to win that series.

When you're playing in the backyard, it doesn't matter.

You can try all kind of things.

So make the time to, to go outside and play, kids.

My goodness, make some time.

Do a, do a pickup game, grab four or five guys and say, hey, let's meet at this park and go out there and just play.

Find a spot in the grass, mark out, you know, mark out some make believe bases and go.

But that's how you learn.

Making that time to play outside will give you the time to experiment and that, that can be invaluable in your development as a player.

But with the switch it in last, it says try to get a left handed, left handed throwing coach and right handed throwing coach.

That's what we had in the major leagues.

So you can work on that.

Like in Pete Rose's case, he, he wanted to face that left handed, work on his right side and vice versa.

So being able to get even with the coach when he's doing soft toss the guy's hitting from the right side, flip with your left hand so you get an idea of seeing the ball coming from that, that area.

Well, and you've talked several times about the advantages of having nuxall be able to throw you.

Oh yeah, but that really, that really helped me because with a lefty throwing that ball has a movement and so that helped me stay on the ball longer to focus on hitting the ball to right center and I use my peripheral vision for the ball.

That's, that's inside.

But a right hander most of the time is sinking in on you.

Yeah, but that lefty, it gave me that great visual.

Well, I hope you guys have enjoyed our discussion about switch hitting today and maybe learned a few things more than anything.

Welcome back to the second half.

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This is the first of 12 episodes, so there'll be another 11 episodes before the season's over.

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