Bill: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,

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Bill: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Bill: This week on the show, we're going to be discussing one of the greatest remakes

Bill: ever made, Ocean's Eleven.

Bill: This film was directed by Steven

Bill: Soderbergh and has a cast of at least 11 people. There's a lot of people.

Bill: Some of them include George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Bernie Mac,

Bill: Don Cheadle, Julia Roberts, and you're going to see it. The list can go on and on.

Bill: With us this week to discuss this epic heist film and really a favorite of all

Bill: of us, I think, all-time favorite of all of us, we have a returning friend of

Bill: the show, Hugo, whereas he's known online, sees the means shirts.

Bill: Hugo, thank you for joining us tonight. And of course, as always, Evan.

Bill: Ward is still exploring the world, searching for the elusive Gareth Edwards.

Bill: As soon as he finds him or abandons his quest, he will be returning to us.

Bill: But never fear. Ward will return with Gareth Edwards to answer for his crimes.

Bill: Or, you know, just some questions about movies. You know, if we can get them.

Bill: So, gentlemen.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven, what do we think?

Hugo: What do you think, Evan?

Evan: This, for me, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen this movie.

Evan: I saw someone post, maybe it's like one of those things where you post about

Evan: a movie, then it just starts hitting your algorithm.

Bill: Oh, yeah.

Evan: Someone's like, this is the ultimate movie to watch on a plane,

Evan: or you're in a hotel traveling, and you turn on the TV, and Ocean's Eleven is just on.

Bill: Or you're awake.

Evan: Yeah, or just any other reason. But it's like a comfort film.

Evan: I've seen it countless times. it's so good yeah that's all i mean what else is it gonna say you go.

Hugo: I have seen this movie a bunch of times too probably only

Hugo: like four but i've seen it i remember it had

Hugo: such a big impact on me when i was because it came out in 2001 so i think yeah

Hugo: i was remember like watching a film when you're a kid and then being like i'm

Hugo: gonna be like that you know like i'm like morphing myself into that personality

Hugo: because that's so cool so i had

Hugo: like the thing with like Like Brad Pitt always eating was like a thing.

Hugo: Like I thought that was really cool to always be munching on something.

Bill: Me too. That's why I'm fat.

Hugo: I have said, Oh, I used to say, Oh, leave it out forever.

Hugo: I've been doing it since I was 17 in Don Keel's terrible British accent.

Hugo: Oh, leave it out.

Bill: Is it really terrible? This is a genuine question. I don't know if accents are bad.

Bill: I can't. I can very rarely. Listen, Jason Statham's Los Angeles accent, that's bad.

Bill: But other than that, like, I can't really tell what's a bad accent.

Evan: I feel like it's commonly joked, like, that's the only bad thing about the movie.

Evan: Like, I feel like that's like a meme or something.

Evan: Like, it's kind of bad. But you know what? It fits because he's a con man.

Evan: And he could also, maybe he's not even fucking British.

Bill: I'd like to mention he's not actually British. I think he just made that up.

Hugo: Maybe he thought he was going to be on a Guy Ritchie film, and he just got confused.

Bill: The movie does feel like a Guy Ritchie film at times.

Bill: It definitely does. It has strong Guy Ritchie vibes at times.

Bill: Good Guy Ritchie vibes, not bad Guy Ritchie vibes.

Hugo: He could also be hiding his identity not to

Hugo: get too deep into this into the don teal character but also

Hugo: because i will also say this i always i just to

Hugo: be like because there were there aren't there isn't a lot of like black representation

Hugo: in these films so ever since i'm like i was a kid when i see the black guy i'm

Hugo: like that guy i want to be like him how did he get in this movie i want to be

Hugo: funny like that you know i want to be needed so i i'm automatically got attracted

Hugo: to john chee to Don Cheadle.

Hugo: But my thing about the lore, maybe he's hiding to them. They don't even know

Hugo: his real identity. And that's why he's pretending.

Bill: I love that.

Hugo: Right?

Bill: I love that.

Evan: That makes sense in the canon of Ocean's world.

Bill: This is my head canon now. It's made up. Now, the bad accent isn't,

Bill: it's not detracted from the movie.

Bill: Now, even if I knew, even if I could tell it was a bad accent,

Bill: which I can't as an ugly American,

Bill: i have no idea for all i know all british people sound like that this is one

Bill: of my all-time favorite movies uh,

Bill: Speaking of, you know, you see a movie and you're like, oh, that,

Bill: that's, yeah, I love con men.

Bill: As I said to these two earlier today, if in other life, I would have been a

Bill: con man, 100%, like 100% or a gentleman thief.

Bill: i have george clooney's character in this is

Bill: one of my all-time favorite characters

Bill: in movies period uh i think

Bill: he like i want to be danny ocean i'm i think that's really that simple i want

Bill: to be danny ocean a hundred percent the man is as smooth as the days long and

Bill: a good person asks about Bruiser he asks about his wife you know pregnant again.

Evan: I'll also add to like purely just based on so

Evan: I think you mentioned this is a Steven Soderbergh film listen to

Evan: this run I mean he has had so many great films but this is his run of films

Evan: in like the 90s to 2000s he had Aaron Brockovich Traffic Ocean's Eleven Full

Evan: Frontal the remake of Solaris I guess he likes remakes the sequel to this Bubble

Evan: which I've actually seen as kind of a lesser known film.

Evan: The Good German and then Ocean's 13 and then the Che part one and part two.

Evan: Like, that's just an epic run. And when I look at his entire catalog,

Evan: I feel like this is my favorite of his films. And he has a lot of good heist movies.

Evan: Like, Logan Lucky is also a really good one. Like, not as good as this.

Evan: you know, good.

Bill: I have actually never seen Logan Lucky.

Evan: Ooh, that's a good one to watch.

Bill: Yeah, this is a pretty solid run. This is pretty solid.

Hugo: I was going to say this is weird. I was looking up the cast list and I was trying

Hugo: to see what Don Cheadle's name is.

Hugo: And if you look on Letterboxd, Don Cheadle isn't in the cast list till like

Hugo: way at the bottom and it says uncredited Basher Tar. Isn't that weird?

Evan: That's so weird. That's because in the Wikipedia version, he is in like the

Evan: main grouping as Bash or Tar.

Hugo: But if you go to Letterboxd, I mean, maybe it's not, maybe it's just mine, check.

Hugo: And Letterboxd, he's, I was like, am I going crazy? You know when you're looking

Hugo: for something at the grocery store and it's like right in front of you? But it wasn't.

Hugo: It's like all the way at the bottom. Almost all the way.

Bill: I'm actually, I'm looking at IMDb. I want to see what it says on IMDb.

Evan: That is weird though, that like each of them has this like, we're all going

Evan: to just like list it differently.

Hugo: And the people that are, the other, only other people that are uncredited are

Hugo: the actors playing themselves. Topher Grace, Joshua Jackson,

Hugo: Shane West, Barry Weston, Halle Mary Payne.

Evan: Can I say, it had been a little while since I'd seen it.

Evan: The Topher Grace and Joshua Jackson poker scene at the beginning is so funny.

Evan: And this time, watching it from a leftist lens, I'm like, this is sort of like

Evan: Brad Pitt practicing and showing you how he can steal from rich people.

Evan: But by befriending them and the true confidence man.

Evan: So I think it's just like a perfect metaphor, like somehow for the later,

Evan: you know, the heist, the big heist.

Hugo: I will also say he's a bad teacher. Like he's getting annoyed at them. It's like you didn't,

Hugo: How did you not notice that he dealt the wrong cards to someone?

Hugo: You know what I mean? He's like, this is a five-card game. You can't have seven cards.

Hugo: How didn't you notice that? You're the teacher, bro. Like, it doesn't make sense. Also.

Evan: Yeah, he's a bad teacher.

Hugo: I think it's really hilarious.

Bill: Because he doesn't have to.

Hugo: Right, yeah.

Bill: Because he doesn't have to.

Hugo: That when they walk out of the club, Topher Grace is the one that gets,

Hugo: like, mogged by, like, I don't know if that's the word, mogged.

Hugo: I just, that's the word that everyone's been using when people are looking better

Hugo: than someone else. I feel like I'm falling behind on the times.

Hugo: But mobbed, that's the word I'm looking for.

Hugo: Topher Grace is mobbed by all the paparazzi, but no one looks at Brad Pitt and George Clooney.

Hugo: It's just so surreal that they're the nobodies.

Hugo: But Topher Grace. Like, what about Topher? Topher!

Bill: Topher Grace.

Evan: That actually is a really good... I feel like it's a perfect gag.

Evan: There are lots of really good gags. and like it also we don't need to talk about

Evan: the sequel where like julia roberts plays is an actor in the movie that like

Evan: has a role in it i want to you haven't seen the sequel.

Bill: That's so good it's so weird i don't like that but.

Evan: Like everyone so we mentioned the other like great characters that i feel like

Evan: kind of get lost and i actually was watching some behind the like behind the

Evan: scenes stuff the um the other two guys oh of scott khan and uh casey aflac like

Evan: you know they're like relations with each other.

Evan: Apparently they had a bunch of more jokes and backstories they wanted to put

Evan: in the movie, but they like had to either take it out or they weren't allowed to put it in.

Evan: I like love their banter. And I love Casey Affleck.

Bill: They are incredible. Their entire thing is absolutely just fucking solid comedy from start to finish.

Bill: Um, I can't get enough of them. Uh, it's the introduction of everyone. all right,

Bill: Let's actually set some precedent here, okay? For those that have not seen this movie, shame on you.

Bill: Shame, shame, shame. Game of Thrones style, going to ring the bell, the whole thing, shame.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven is one of the classic heist films, as we already said,

Bill: stars George Clooney, Brad Pitt, all those other people.

Bill: They are assembling a group of people to rob the Bellagio Hotel,

Bill: but specifically all three hotels, casino hotels, owned by Andy Garcia's character.

Bill: That's the premise. We're assembling a team.

Bill: George Clooney and Brad Pitt are assembling a team to rob these people.

Bill: And as Evan pointed out, part of the things that we talk, the kind of scene

Bill: is that they have specifically, time and time again, the main characters,

Bill: especially Brad Pitt and George Clooney, they rob people that just seem to deserve it.

Bill: they are specifically robbing high-end people.

Bill: Not that they are morally, they're not Robin Hood characters, but they clearly prey on,

Bill: people who might seem we would say deserve it that they are they are hoarding

Bill: wealth and they're not great people and you go see his character is a bad person

Bill: right like let's let's get that out of the way but.

Hugo: I feel like we don't know that he's a bad person except for the fact that they

Hugo: keep mentioning like if you steal from him he like ruins not just your life

Hugo: but like everyone else in the family's life.

Bill: But he also bought the hotel out from uh the you know ruben and then bombed

Bill: it, blew it up to replace it with a gaudy monstrosity instead of respecting

Bill: the heritage and history of Las Vegas.

Hugo: Alright, that sounds like some boomer.

Bill: Which I have zero respect for. I personally you couldn't pay me to go to Las Vegas.

Bill: As far as I'm concerned, it should be turned back into the desert.

Hugo: But I mean, I feel like that's like an old guy's complaint about a young guy

Hugo: moving in which is like a normal capitalist story, right?

Hugo: Like I'm going to buy your place, I'm going to improve on it.

Hugo: So I feel like the, the demon, like how the way they're like demonizing Danny,

Hugo: um, Andy Garcia's character.

Hugo: Um, oh my God, I'm spacing on his name. The way they're demonizing Terry Benedict

Hugo: feels like a little like over the top because we don't have a lot of history

Hugo: besides the fact that, Hey, don't steal from him or else he's going to,

Hugo: he's going to come for you.

Hugo: So like, I didn't get the sense that they were like good guys from the beginning.

Hugo: I was just, you know, you're just in it for the fun.

Hugo: It's like, they're all in the game. You know what I mean? So it doesn't matter if you run.

Bill: Absolutely you know absolutely but you know you i feel like you you are,

Bill: You're prone to sympathize with them or empathize with them.

Bill: You don't villainize them.

Hugo: Right. No, no, no. You're right. I don't see them as villains.

Hugo: But I don't see them as Robin Hood characters. And you also see- No.

Bill: They're certainly not Robin Hood characters. They're not giving to the poor.

Hugo: But you also see Danny Ocean has been the parole board in the beginning,

Hugo: that first scene, the way it opens with him getting interviewed.

Hugo: He's telling them- First of all, he's kind of rude to the parole board. They were just like- I.

Bill: Love that scene.

Hugo: Right? Isn't that a weird scene? how.

Evan: Does he get paroled is what i like to know like he was a.

Hugo: Dick yeah and then like she was you do it again he's like well she can't leave

Hugo: me again like all right bro you're gonna be sarcastic with me you're in here

Hugo: for another five years also uh oh the voice is viola date uh viola davis i just

Hugo: saw it all the way at the bottom viola roll board interrogator i.

Bill: Love that scene because especially because first of all that would be me i would get five more years.

Hugo: A hundred percent.

Bill: They'd be like go back in um especially when they were like well you've been

Bill: implicated it's like and i'd be like good for you that's not relevant i wasn't charged.

Hugo: I

Bill: Wasn't charged like you you know you can't hold that against me fuck you he

Bill: was he had every right to make that point.

Hugo: Uh the other thing that bothers me about the whole parole thing he makes one

Hugo: phone call and then never again is mentioned that he's on parole,

Hugo: You notice that he makes that one phone call. He's like, Hey,

Hugo: just checking in Danny ocean, blah, blah, blah.

Hugo: And then he never calls the parole board again for the rest of the film.

Hugo: I'm like, Hey, what happened?

Bill: Well, but that's why he goes back to prison, violating his parole.

Hugo: Well, it's like, but only because Terry called the parole board.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: Things that he's supposed to be checking in every, every few hours.

Bill: Whereas like, we have to, we can assume that he is checking it.

Hugo: Okay. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Bill: Lying and lying, which is why he goes to prison in the end when it is proven that he's been lying.

Evan: Do we, do we know what state he's arrested? He's like in prison in California?

Bill: Oh, New Jersey, New Jersey.

Hugo: I did not notice that.

Bill: Listen, 100. So, all right, he, I don't know which penitentiary he leaves exactly,

Bill: but he, it's a North Jersey penitentiary.

Bill: and then he goes to ac and he is specifically you

Bill: know all right here's a little okay atlantic city

Bill: is where the pros go i forgot yes vegas

Bill: is where tourists go atlantic city is

Bill: where the pros go you're right and that's where

Bill: shit goes down and that's where you have to assume that now he committed the

Bill: crime i believe or he committed part of the crime i believe in new york state

Bill: and then got renditioned to New Jersey where he was tried.

Bill: But yes, my home state.

Hugo: Okay, got it. Because I forgot he went to Atlantic City right after to gamble,

Hugo: and that's where he bumps into – Bernie Mac. Frank, who's Bernie – Ramone.

Hugo: Huh?

Bill: It's Ramon.

Hugo: Ramon.

Bill: Ramon.

Hugo: Isn't it weird that Ramon walks up and he's like, oh, blah, blah,

Hugo: blah. And he's like, hey, Frank.

Hugo: And that's when he recognizes Danny Ocean? Like he didn't recognize it?

Bill: No, no, no. He did not not recognize him. He didn't.

Bill: He was playing his role and then he was irritated that Danny called him out.

Bill: And he didn't want his cover blown.

Hugo: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Ramon.

Bill: Yeah, it's Ramon.

Evan: I mean, I feel like it's safe to assume that all of the names that we hear that

Evan: them use in the movie, Basher and Burge, like those are all not their actual names.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: Like, you know, like that, I mean, I mean, they all have, you know, their.

Bill: Except for Ruben.

Evan: Aliases and all that.

Bill: Ruben, that's his name.

Hugo: Yes.

Evan: Yeah. Well, he's like a legitimate businessman. Mostly.

Bill: Yeah. A legitimate businessman. Who's funding a heist.

Hugo: They keep reminding us how famous he is. He's always standing in front of Time

Hugo: Magazine posters of him.

Hugo: There's that one shot of Terry, and he's right behind him at some – At the boxing

Hugo: match. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bill: Oh, yeah, yeah. In the beginning, and then at the boxing match,

Bill: too. He's right behind him.

Hugo: The real wrestling match.

Bill: He's always there.

Hugo: He's always there.

Evan: Yeah, and part of the reason that they're able to get –,

Evan: him to uh play or play by

Evan: elliot cool of course like get him to back

Evan: their heist is that he is mad at terry benedict for like screwing over his own

Evan: his like his casino like he made millions of dollars being a casino owner then

Evan: got muscled out and now he's like well i'm gonna take my revenge against him

Evan: and just rob terry benedict which like cool dude yeah.

Bill: It's all it's purely ego.

Hugo: Rich people sound petty he sounds petty enough to do that you know what i mean

Hugo: a hundred percent and he's only.

Evan: That man.

Hugo: He's only fronting the money he's not really losing anything right he's fronting

Hugo: the money yeah he'll probably get it back so it's a good investment.

Evan: Yeah presumably that gets like removed from everyone's cut or who knows you

Evan: know something i just like i know we're talking oh go ahead bill.

Bill: Hugo from wikipedia cheetle was uncredited for his role In an interview, Cheadle said,

Bill: there was some stuff that happened behind the scenes that I didn't like how

Bill: it went down, so I said, take my name off it.

Hugo: Really?

Evan: Wow.

Hugo: Wow.

Bill: I want to know more so badly.

Evan: But he came back for two sequels.

Bill: Yeah, but it came back for two sequels.

Hugo: Oh, really?

Bill: Yes.

Evan: Yeah, he's in both sequels.

Hugo: But Steven Soderbergh doesn't direct the other ones. It might not be the same.

Bill: He directs 13.

Hugo: Oh, really? Okay. Well, I don't know.

Evan: No, he directed all of them.

Hugo: Really?

Bill: He did direct 12?

Hugo: Yeah pretty.

Evan: Sure right yeah.

Bill: No yeah yeah he did.

Evan: Yeah i thought so yeah he didn't write any of them but yeah.

Hugo: I wonder if it was just contract stuff i also i

Hugo: really one of the other things that bothers me about it

Hugo: um now looking back right because i again i

Hugo: focus on don cheetle he's robbing the bank he gets caught

Hugo: um one of my favorite lines is when the guy comes up

Hugo: he's like do me a favor get smith and tell him that so we're looking

Hugo: for him he's like who's smith just get him all right and

Hugo: like just like brad pitt is

Hugo: like kills it this whole film but then the

Hugo: fact that he just robbed a bank got

Hugo: caught blew up a car who knows how many people got hurt you know i know he did

Hugo: like a little warning like oh here we go watch out watch out but like who knows

Hugo: if people got hurt from the explosion and then he's just walking around vegas

Hugo: willy-nilly no mask like no one's looking for you, dude. They're coming to get you, man.

Bill: Number one, that was a cop car. Number two, everyone around it were cops. So they're not people.

Hugo: But that's even, but that, I mean, back to, right, right. I'm not saying that they're not gonna.

Bill: And yes, they would have been looking for him.

Hugo: Would have been looking for him. That's what I'm saying. Like, yes, hiding out.

Hugo: And then it really bothers me when he goes with the cones to go into the into the sewer drain.

Hugo: But he's wearing like a fur vest and like crazy.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: You don't look like you work for Con Ed, bro. No one thinks you're a PC.

Bill: Put a vest on.

Bill: Every time I was like, just put a vest on, man. Just put a high vis vest on.

Bill: Just put a high vis. Just get a clipboard and put a high vis on.

Hugo: You don't even know. You can get into any place if you have a high-vis vest.

Bill: Yeah, a high-vis and a clipboard.

Hugo: And a hard hat. All things you can buy for really cheap and just have in your apartment.

Bill: Yep. But I also at the same time really love, it's going to be great to be working

Bill: with proper villains again.

Hugo: That's really good. I love his accent. And that's the other thing.

Hugo: We can make fun of his accent, but I would not be able to hold a British accent

Hugo: for that long. Like all those words, that's...

Bill: Hell no.

Hugo: Like all the people criticizing his accent. Can you do a better accent? Because I can't.

Evan: When i like jokingly like i'm critical like that's what people do

Evan: i think it's more of like a joke than anything i mean he's definitely

Evan: one he doesn't have many lines but they're always like really good

Evan: i think that what makes like these kind of films where this like the top of

Evan: your cast is george clooney matt damon brad pitt and whatnot and then you just

Evan: have like a bunch of other really good characters that just fill out the entire

Evan: thing that all just have little i don't want to call them like throwaway lines

Evan: but they're just like constantly funny throughout yeah the.

Bill: Which, and I was saying this before you, before you came on to Evan,

Bill: you know, I was talking, you know, when we were, we were watching it,

Bill: my wife and I were watching it again.

Bill: Um, and like what I say is like Matt Damon's character is the least standout and he carries.

Bill: And as, as a role and as an actor in the film, he sets the bar for everybody

Bill: else, which is a testament to how high everybody is doing.

Bill: because i find his character and his role in

Bill: the film the least engaging and the

Bill: least like interesting but he's still so

Bill: good and that everybody else still tops

Bill: that everybody tops it like every

Bill: time they are on screen you are engaged

Bill: and you're like hells yeah though my other

Bill: big thing with him is that i don't think any person his

Bill: age would be that impressed by julia roberts

Bill: i'm sorry julia roberts i don't think i i find

Bill: the way they talk about julia roberts's character that is the big that is honestly

Bill: my biggest issue is the way everybody else talks about julia roberts's character

Bill: as if she is the most beautiful person to ever walk the planet and i just don't see it i'm sorry i don't.

Bill: I, I'm not saying she's not a beautiful woman. I'm not saying she's not pretty.

Bill: And I think Danny ocean as the man who loves her would see her that way.

Bill: I don't think a random person like Matt Damon's character, like this is the

Bill: best part of my day seeing that woman in a pantsuit come down the stairs.

Hugo: I think, no, I disagree. I think you could, I think it has a lot to do with

Hugo: just her vibe. Like the fact that she's, you know, uh, Terry's girl,

Hugo: right? She's coming down. She's very classy.

Hugo: she's the art curator for the museum um you

Hugo: know she just the way she carries herself like

Hugo: and again like they're probably uh they're very

Hugo: i will say i don't you know i know i feel like they're very materialistic like

Hugo: they want to be rich really bad and this is like a

Hugo: rich man's wife right this is what a rich man

Hugo: like aspires to have a very classy girl and uh i love julia roberts just because

Hugo: you know i've known you know we've known her since we were kids so like pretty

Hugo: woman and like she's just she's just she's a great actor i also heard she i

Hugo: don't i feel bad saying this on podcasts without confirming but i feel like

Hugo: i've heard that she's like really horrible to work with but really i've never.

Bill: Heard that but i don't.

Hugo: My wife loves like she all the podcasts she listens to are just people from

Hugo: the industry like talking about who's fun to work with or not,

Hugo: But I'm pretty sure she told me Julia Roberts is like a monster.

Hugo: But if we can't complain that, please.

Bill: Really? I thought she was really nice. I'm Googling it now. I'm looking it up. I'm doing research.

Evan: One of the things that I did see, so I was watching a few like the cast interviews

Evan: and Julia Roberts was saying that it was actually really hard to work with George Clooney.

Evan: Not because like he's a bad guy or like the acting, but simply because like

Evan: they're really goofy as like offset.

Evan: and so when they had to be really serious in the movie it

Evan: was actually they'd have to do lots of takes because they would like to start

Evan: laughing and break you know constantly so i know you could still be correct

Evan: about julia roberts being like hard to work with but i don't know okay so she's

Evan: in a like five soderbergh movie so clearly like maybe he works with her like

Evan: well you know apparently.

Bill: She does have quite a reputation for being difficult to work with um she this

Bill: is a while ago she was interviewed and she addressed like some of that um so much.

Hugo: You know what i'll say okay i don't know reading some of the accusations it

Hugo: could be that if it was a man being demanding and stuff they would be like oh

Hugo: you know he stands his ground but because it's a woman they're like oh look

Hugo: like they call yeah they used to call her tinker hell on the set of hook,

Hugo: because she disagreed with Steven Spielberg.

Hugo: But what's the disagreement? Is the disagreement like, oh, I don't want somebody

Hugo: to touch me like that? You know what I mean? We don't know. So, yeah.

Bill: 100%.

Evan: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that there's sexism and,

Evan: weird stuff happening in hollywood no they're they're not what.

Bill: I've heard about it.

Evan: It's just a rumor no but like yeah i could i could totally see that being the

Evan: thing like you know like a what like uh what is his name um christian heigl

Evan: is that her name uh he was in like um that's not her first name i'm blanking on her first fuck it's.

Bill: With a k katherine.

Evan: Katherine heigl katherine heigl like she also had that reputation of like being

Evan: hard to work with and then i feel like i read later on that it was just that

Evan: she actually would advocate for herself on set, and,

Evan: men directors didn't like that. And so she got blacklisted, basically.

Hugo: Yeah, there was another one. I forgot who it was. In the 90s,

Hugo: she had two really good films, and then basically Weinstein tried to make moves on her end.

Bill: Oh, yeah.

Hugo: Is it Ashley Judd? I think it was Ashley Judd.

Evan: Could be. She was out for a while.

Bill: There's a couple other Yeah.

Hugo: You can tell because when you look her up, it just says she's an activist.

Hugo: So it's like she was a great actor. And then like she turned this guy down and

Hugo: now she doesn't get any roles in any films.

Hugo: And so she becomes an activist for like being outspoken about like how women

Hugo: shouldn't get treated like that.

Hugo: So anyway, let Julia Roberts live. She's a nice person.

Bill: Listen, I'm just I'm just saying that I don't think the way she's presented,

Bill: he would react that way. Like she comes down very like business court.

Bill: Like I said, like in a pantsuit, like I don't think that he would respond to

Bill: that as you're like, this is the best part of my day.

Bill: I just, it seems like,

Bill: unrealistic to me.

Evan: Going like going like a separate way i

Evan: think we were i don't remember it was like in our group chat or like we were talking

Evan: about you and i bill is the like the building

Evan: of like all the different people they need for the

Evan: con and like they have 10 people and then you know uh like one thing i love

Evan: about soderberg and he does this in a lot of his films is lots of the the script

Evan: and the way that people react is so much of it is like facial expression like

Evan: brad pitt and George Cleaner talking and he'll be like so you think we need one more?

Evan: Okay, we'll get one more.

Bill: Yeah.

Evan: And like, it's all like this very interesting or like one of them will be saying

Evan: a line and then they'll sort of jump in before they're even finished.

Evan: But like, it feels like authentically the way that people would talk.

Bill: There was a time in which like Joss Whedon dialogue was so popular and it was

Bill: like this like really quippy back and forth and it became such like it is infected

Bill: Hollywood like to the point where like,

Bill: you know, like that's like one of the distinctive things about like Marvel movies.

Bill: that's the way they all talk and like nobody talks like

Bill: that but watching this movie like

Bill: this is the way people talk to

Bill: each other like in like half like

Bill: you drop words you half finish

Bill: a sentence the other person just picks up what you're saying you

Bill: just kind of like respond but also beyond that the

Bill: way the script is written like when they

Bill: talk about what they're going to need to do it and this

Bill: is as a sci-fi fan and a fantasy fan this is

Bill: this is a thing that's so common in science fiction and fantasy the

Bill: bringing you into the universe by expecting you to just buy into things and

Bill: then you'll figure it out like when it says when you're like oh what do you

Bill: what do we need he goes off the top of my head i'd say you're looking at a bosky

Bill: a jim brown a miss daisy two jethro's and a leon spynx not to mention the biggest

Bill: elephant Fitzgerald ever.

Bill: Do any of you know what any of that is a reference to when he says that?

Bill: You figure it out later on, but when he says it, we have no idea what any of that means, right?

Bill: But the fact that they just lay it out there and then let you go,

Bill: and it's so casual and it's so inviting, it just makes you feel part of the

Bill: conversation. You're like, oh, yeah, that's what we're going to need.

Bill: We're going to need a big Ella Fitzgerald. What the fuck is that mean?

Evan: I looked it up. There's an article that goes through what each of those things

Evan: are, and it's actually kind of cool.

Hugo: What are they? What are they?

Bill: Bring it on.

Evan: Should we go through? Okay, ready? Okay, we're going to do all of them. All right. So, a Boeski.

Evan: So this is the character that's played by Saul playing Lyman Zerga.

Evan: So he's like the foreign guy in the book.

Evan: So it says Lyman Zerga is the whale who asked to put his jewels in the Cassano vault.

Evan: So basically the idea is that he's like the con of like a wealthy high roller.

Evan: It's like that's the, that's a Boesky. Jim Brown is a stage fight between two people.

Evan: And so this is the stage fight between Frank, played by Bernie Mac,

Evan: and Linus by Matt Damon, so that he can pickpocket him for the codes.

Evan: And it's named after the football player, Jim Brown, who's required,

Evan: like, you know, one of the greatest football players ever.

Evan: And he would often, you know, have like fights between other players, like confrontation.

Evan: So like, that was the idea. a miss daisy is

Evan: the swat van used as the getaway vehicle and

Evan: it's about like you you you think it's one

Evan: per like like they call the police like when later

Evan: on in the film and you think they're actually doing it you don't realize

Evan: it and they give you that nice little they show like the little uh

Evan: what is it the the pine tree scented thing

Evan: hanging from the thing so you know like that's like the giveaway the

Evan: jethro's are the um malloy brothers

Evan: turk and virgil like the two guys like we talked but earlier like

Evan: uh you know sort of and it's a reference like the beverly

Evan: hillbillies where they like just are kind of like dumb brothers who

Evan: do a bunch of stuff together and they hire or get hired to do

Evan: things leon spinks is the distraction at the boxing match which is in reference

Evan: to a boxing match where leon spinks beat muhammad ali in a total upset so the

Evan: idea is that they create this diversion like through chaos and that and the

Evan: ella fitzgerald is playing a looped tape of a robbery over the casino.

Evan: Cameras so that they can then...

Evan: They think that they're watching one thing, but they're watching another,

Evan: and then they've also looped it.

Hugo: Nice! That was really good. That was a really cool explanation. I also want to say that,

Hugo: that the um what was the first one the rich guy oh uh they had that in the sting

Hugo: too remember they had the high roller the guy that pretended to be a high roller

Hugo: and the sting so it's it's like a call yeah i get that okay i love that love

Hugo: that that was a great explanation i.

Bill: Think it's i think it's such a testament to the film and like the writing and

Bill: the the way it's directed and how you're drawn into it that none of us knew

Bill: what any of that did we now know and we but until we've Never, never questioned it.

Bill: Never wondered. Never said, you know what? What was that all? No.

Bill: You just, you're along from the ride. That's part of the world.

Bill: And you buy into it. And it makes the world feel whole.

Evan: Here's what, like, I would say, like, so one of the things that's great,

Evan: too, like, there's lots of great, like, little speeches and bits.

Evan: But, like, when they all come to Vegas and they're sort of, like,

Evan: hearing the plan, like, they're all, like, on the pool deck,

Evan: you know, drinking and eating.

Evan: And they go inside. And George Clooney is, like, we have, like,

Evan: there's this thing and that thing.

Evan: And then they're like, you know, so once we get through the vault,

Evan: which we can't get into and we steal the thing and like do all these things

Evan: and he's conning them in a way to do the thing, but like together.

Evan: But they're also conning us as the audience to convince us to like,

Evan: sure, yeah, we can totally do pull this off.

Evan: And it's like the con is like going in all different ways.

Evan: So I just it's I think it will make this so good.

Hugo: I saw inconsistencies this time around. Yeah.

Hugo: I think I was, whenever I rewatch it for like the episode, when you tell me

Hugo: we're going to do an episode, I always rewatch it and I try to look at it from

Hugo: like a different angle if it's not the first time I've watched the film.

Hugo: You know what I mean? So I saw a lot of like weird inconsistencies that didn't make sense.

Hugo: How come there's no gate security at the place where they hold the biggest EMP bomb?

Hugo: You know what I mean? Like they literally just drove up. It's an open parking

Hugo: lot. Like if they really had that bomb, there would be real like gate security. You know what I mean?

Hugo: Like you would have to go through like a thing. They only open the fence for

Hugo: you if you like get through. That's one thing, but not that huge.

Hugo: Also, the fact that they drew up the plan ahead of time that Ocean gets like

Hugo: fake arrested and fake beat up by a dude that's on their payroll.

Hugo: before anyone found out that the casino owner is sleeping with Danny Ocean's ex-wife.

Hugo: Like, that's just like, what? Like, he kind of...

Evan: When did he have time to pay off the bruiser?

Hugo: Right, and how did he know that they were going to hire a bruiser?

Hugo: I mean, I guess they already knew that that's the guy they always hire for that,

Hugo: but he already had two goons. And then when he gets...

Bill: I think that it is...

Bill: I think we have to assume that those things took place because Danny always intended those things.

Bill: Like he always knew he was going to get caught out for that for like, you know, tests.

Bill: Like I always assumed that he was always playing that, um, like he was always

Bill: running that side hustle and always intended to have those things happen.

Bill: So he was already looking ahead at that because there is the hustle side where they say that,

Bill: But then there's the like the trope of like who does what and like in a in a

Bill: team and Danny Ocean really is the epitome of the mastermind when it comes to that kind of thing.

Evan: Which is sort of funny about the film in general is you sort of like obviously

Evan: he comes up with the plan and everyone's executing different things.

Evan: But in a way you're almost don't see him doing anything.

Evan: You know what I mean? Like he's not what he until the end when he sort of,

Evan: but, but behind it, he is doing all these orchestrations.

Bill: What he's doing, what he's doing.

Bill: You're actually, when you, when you're looking for what he's doing,

Bill: what you're actually doing is watching other people fulfill the things he laid in place.

Hugo: Yes. Yeah. It just seems like a lot of like hoops to jump through that he keeps

Hugo: everyone else in the shadows, but they also knew that.

Hugo: some of the things the other thing okay here's the other one that

Hugo: early early on you see frank trailing

Hugo: the guy that's in love with the stripper charmaine and

Hugo: then brad pitt meets up with her and she's like you know she tells him the stuff

Hugo: he gives her a hundred dollars and he says tell your mom i said how like don't

Hugo: worry she's on next if we just saw frank tailing charmaine how does Brad Pitt

Hugo: already know her and know her mom?

Bill: No, no, he did not tell Charmaine.

Hugo: He told the guy that's in love with Charmaine.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: But what are the chances he was in love with a girl that Brad Pitt already knew?

Bill: Listen, that's just the plot of the movie.

Hugo: Man.

Bill: You can't, you know, you can't, what are you doing, man? What are you doing?

Bill: What are you doing here, man? You know how it worked that way?

Bill: Because that's the way they wrote the movie.

Hugo: It's just one of those things that it's just like.

Bill: So, but like, all right, all right, let me, let me, let me spin it this way to you. Okay.

Bill: What that really is, is this is, for all the fact that this movie,

Bill: so if we want to take this from a leftist perspective, right? Okay.

Bill: Terry Benedict really is the bourgeoisie in very much in the way that he feels

Bill: isolated and protected from everybody else.

Bill: And what Danny Ocean and Rusty and all the rest of the 11 really prove is that

Bill: you are vulnerable to the people that you see as beneath you because we are all, we are everywhere.

Bill: We, we listen to, to, to go back to a different Brad Pitt character in, in flight club, right?

Bill: We wash your clothes, we clean your houses, wash your clothes,

Bill: you know, fill your car, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bill: I don't remember the exact what it is, but it's, it's literally what it is.

Bill: The story is it's like, yeah, no.

Bill: They all know each other. Why wouldn't he, because they are all part of that

Bill: under the lower class, the underclass as Tyree Benedict sees it.

Bill: And really that's what it is. Like the entire character of those of is a complete

Bill: character of the lower class, the working class that do the work for these people

Bill: and are isolated from them.

Bill: And you never, those people never think, oh, wait a minute, they know each other.

Bill: and and if it can like that can

Bill: bite me in the ass if i don't treat people

Bill: right because in the end they all

Bill: have each other's they in a perfect world we'd

Bill: all have each other's backs and we'd unite but like when it comes down to it

Bill: people do they have each other's backs and they will stand against the big guy

Bill: and this is in this case that is it is brad pitt knows why does he know charmaine

Bill: well because they're they're from the same they're from the same hood they're

Bill: from the same area they're from the same class he.

Hugo: Knows her mom.

Bill: That's what he knows her mom yeah yeah.

Evan: And here's the here's the inconsistency that i saw this time is when they need

Evan: to rob to get that like emp device to knock out the power to like,

Evan: the pinch is that what they call like the little like a basher needs that pinch

Evan: they show where they go and i feel it's like cal university but like that seems

Evan: pretty far from las vegas and they just like quickly zoomed off you know you

Evan: know i don't know they do they.

Bill: Do make it clear that they're i do think that they reference that like a taking

Bill: amount of time when they cut back to ruben and he's like where are they and it's like.

Evan: They'll be that's true they are gone so So they're gone for a long time.

Bill: They're gone for a while and they do reference it. I do think that part of this,

Bill: I think you're always going to find these kinds of things because this is a

Bill: movie with 11 main characters straight off the bat.

Bill: That's before we hit the, the antagonist crew.

Bill: Like that's before you hit Terry Benedict. That's before you hit Julia Robert.

Bill: Like this is 11 main characters. Like you, unless you have a two and a half,

Bill: three hour movie, you're gonna, you have to squeeze things and like,

Bill: you know, yeah, you know.

Evan: I'm being like, you know.

Bill: You are, and you don't deserve it. Cause this is the greatest movie of all time.

Hugo: It's like, it's like if, it's like if you're Steven Soderbergh,

Hugo: like defending your film, but we're just like, these are the things that are

Hugo: wrong. No, there were other inconsistencies,

Hugo: but I understand from a film perspective why they had to do it.

Hugo: The way the guys left the bellboy uniforms in the elevator.

Bill: My wife said the same thing.

Hugo: Someone's going to be like, why are these bellboy? Hey, we got to find two guys

Hugo: that dress up like bellboys. You know what I mean?

Hugo: But for the film, it makes sense because we get to see that they're switching

Hugo: uniforms, which I love that they are like five different people.

Hugo: You know, they go from, like, being the security guards to being the bellboys.

Bill: The balloon delivery guy?

Hugo: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bill: And then a bunch of fucking circus animals.

Hugo: The other, the other two inconsistencies. And I'm sorry, I'm still going to

Hugo: just, just like I pointed them out.

Hugo: I noted them. The other one is why did everyone riot when the lights went out? The power goes.

Bill: Oh, come on. That is not an inconsistency. That is a valid observation of human

Bill: behavior. Here's the thing.

Hugo: Everyone's rioting, right? You're like, this is crazy. Everyone's writing at

Hugo: the game. They're writing.

Hugo: They're trying to steal right at the casino. And then two minutes later,

Hugo: Terry walks with Julia Roberts and she walks through and goes into the casino,

Hugo: finds Brad Pitt's character who's on the phone,

Hugo: but behind him, the casino's fine. Everyone's just chilling.

Hugo: What happened to all the riots?

Bill: I actually missed that. I missed that.

Hugo: Where did all the riots go? It was like, it's literally within like five minutes

Hugo: of it, of the riots. Like now everyone's just playing.

Evan: It's because Terry Benedict runs a tight ship and he's able to get his casino back.

Bill: He walked through and people were like, oh, shit, I'm going to behave now.

Hugo: They're like, oh, okay, I won't steal. And then the other thing that bothered

Hugo: me is, because I love that George Clooney and Matt Damon are doing this Mission Impossible stuff.

Hugo: Because it's like Jason Bourne and Batman.

Hugo: But then, like, they throw that hockey puck thing into, to knock the teacher.

Hugo: And they immediately open the doors and step out, like, without gas masks on.

Hugo: Like, dude, the thing knocked them out, but the gas is dissipated within that.

Hugo: few seconds just movie magic it's movie magic i love it i.

Bill: Love it magic yeah i love that little thing i don't know why it's so cool yeah

Bill: i don't know why i've always loved that thing and he just he slides it perfectly yeah,

Bill: He's a pro bocce ball player, I bet you.

Evan: Yes. Or a shovel board.

Bill: Or curling.

Evan: One of the, like, the thing, I was, like, watching it this time,

Evan: and I was thinking, too, is where were the, like, the biggest moments where

Evan: the plan, like, almost falls apart? Like, one of the cons, like, breaks down?

Evan: And I think this time, like, I mean, I guess it's the obvious one,

Evan: but I couldn't find another,

Evan: is when, like, when Saul is doing the Lyman Zerga thing, and the random dude

Evan: in the casino recognizes him as Saul and he just sort of plays it off being

Evan: like I don't know, what the fuck are you talking about?

Evan: And Terry Benedict I feel like could have been more suspicious there,

Evan: but he wasn't because he just needs to deal with this guy and move on.

Bill: I feel like they partly relied on the fact that Terry Benedict basically was

Bill: so robotic, but also I feel like they kind of relied on the fact that like he

Bill: thought he was untouchable.

Bill: Part of it is like also just his hubris.

Hugo: Yeah.

Bill: Like, and like, which is again, to go back to like the you know,

Bill: we are left with the projector you know, to go back.

Bill: These people in these positions of power often operate under these assumptions

Bill: of hubris and like that nothing can change and that everything will always stay

Bill: the same the way it is for their benefit and he very much embodies that. Very much so.

Evan: I think that's the, is there any other moments you can think of though where

Evan: they almost like blow it?

Bill: When, um...

Evan: Yen's hand gets stuck and he almost drops the suitcase.

Bill: When the briefcase almost falls off, yes, which was just pure, like, happenstance.

Bill: Like, that's not even, like, somebody fucking, like, you know,

Bill: that's, like, nobody could predict that.

Bill: But when Livingston Dell, he almost gives himself away in a big way.

Hugo: That's what I was going to say.

Bill: That's what you were going to say, right? Yeah.

Hugo: When he's, like, he can't, he gets lost, and then the guy's,

Hugo: like, hey, hey, and he's trying to get his attention. You think, oh, my God, this is it.

Hugo: And he's, like, trying to, he's, like, hey, you forgot this.

Hugo: And it's just, like, the one thing, the little scanner thing you forgot.

Evan: And then I like he's also like, does that thing get a good reception too,

Evan: right? And he's like, yeah.

Bill: And they referenced that early on when they're like, how are his nerves?

Bill: It's known that he cannot play it cool.

Hugo: Yeah, he was freaking out. Another thing, a little weird thing,

Hugo: he's wearing gloves in the beginning when he scans it and he's wearing these big yellow gloves.

Hugo: And then he's got the map drawn on his hand. But I feel like wouldn't the gloves make the...

Hugo: ink and his hand disappear sorry you look yellow.

Bill: Gloves on that scene.

Hugo: Wearing gloves when he first scans in and then when he's inside and after he

Hugo: does the whole thing he's walking you're.

Bill: Right you're right yeah yeah.

Hugo: And the map is but i mean that whole thing would be gone that whole map would

Hugo: be gone if you were wearing those big yellow gloves they make your hand sweat but.

Evan: It was smart to write it on your hand because if he had a piece of paper that's like evidence.

Hugo: That someone can find again it's like stuff that for the film it has to it has

Hugo: to work it also they made it so that like it kind of got sweaty and fell off but enough that they.

Bill: Showed that it was already a little smudgy.

Hugo: Yeah i feel.

Bill: Like that was actually the way they did that that was intentional almost as

Bill: like to lead into that to like predict that.

Hugo: When yen gets mad at them when like he had just had his hand stuck they blow

Hugo: up the door right and he basically they the blow up didn't took too long actually

Hugo: so he had time to get out and then when they blow the door and they get in he's

Hugo: like where were you guys?

Hugo: And he's like, wait, why are you mad that they're late? If they would have been

Hugo: on time, you'd be dead, right?

Evan: Also, even if they had done it right, it seemed like that explosion could have still killed him.

Bill: Oh, hells yeah!

Evan: He gets like... That seemed like a terribly bad part of the plan.

Evan: Also, it also is kind of amazing that they were able to blow the door with those explosives.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: You know, but...

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: I'll buy it. I'll buy it. I don't know how to call it. I think it's like Terry

Evan: Benedict too is like, he assumes no one could even get to the vault so why make

Evan: it explosive more explosive proof right like again the hubris I.

Bill: Don't know how vaults work I'm not a vault builder I'm not a vault expert in

Bill: this life I'm not a gentleman thief.

Evan: You know what would have been great is if Scott Kahn had been the explosive,

Evan: thief guy because his dad James Kahn was in the movie The Thief and also robbed,

Evan: stuff too so that would have been a perfect continuity thing but I digress I

Evan: didn't realize Well, one of my, yeah, it's his dad.

Evan: One of the, like one of, I think I was telling you, or maybe I posted in the

Evan: chat, is like one of my favorite, there are like lots of great lines.

Evan: We're talking about the dialogue,

Evan: The one that I always go back to is when Brad Pitt is, like,

Evan: coaching Matt Damon, like, once he's in his suit and he's going to go,

Evan: like, do the con to get the codes.

Evan: And he's going through all the things you can't do. And then he's,

Evan: like, under no circumstances, can you?

Evan: And then he's, like, hey, can you come into here for a second?

Evan: He's, like, sure, one second.

Evan: And he leaves and, like, you never find out what it is. And I always think to

Evan: myself, like, what was the thing he was going to tell me?

Bill: Every time. And you, like.

Evan: He's, like, don't tell him that the guy at the gaming commission died.

Evan: that's another thing too like what if that guy hadn't died.

Bill: I assume they did their research okay i assume they

Bill: did their research if i was gonna pretend to be from i i would have done my

Bill: fucking research yeah i actually spend the rest of that movie watching matt

Bill: damon's character to see if he does what he shouldn't do or avoids doing it

Bill: so i can figure out what it was you're not supposed to do maybe.

Hugo: They gave it away the thing that he was like and absolutely by any you do never

Hugo: by any means do should you and then maybe matt damon does it and gives it away

Hugo: but i can't think of what it could possibly be.

Bill: Yeah i've never been able to figure it out but i but i think about it the whole time every time i.

Evan: Know it's hard not to like uh what did you what could you have done he also

Evan: feels like matt damon's like con too like he he.

Bill: Succeeds but i feel like there's.

Evan: Moments throughout his where you're like is he gonna succeed though like he

Evan: he agitates you know bernie mack like you know calling him the the uh the the a,

Evan: Not the ultimate bad word, but close to it.

Hugo: Oh, I remember. Yes. What does he say? Colored?

Bill: Yes. Colored, yeah. We at the Nevada Gaming Commission pride ourselves on, fuck, what is it?

Bill: Like providing equal opportunity to colored employees. I forget exactly,

Bill: but I know it starts out with, you, sir, of course, no. We at the Nevada Gaming Commission.

Evan: He says now as i was saying the nevada game is strictly forbids the employment of colored i mean,

Evan: no awkward also like the

Evan: i i hate that we're like going through some of these like these things

Evan: but the other thing is wouldn't so

Evan: the the con there was to steal the codes that they change constantly and they're

Evan: in terry benedict's pocket would he does he need to use the codes like would

Evan: he at some point be like where did they go what happened to them or is it like

Evan: he doesn't really need to use the codes because everyone just like open shit for him yeah.

Bill: I don't think he needs to that's good.

Evan: It just again one of those things where like he just holds them and everyone else my thing.

Hugo: Was the flyers all the porn flyers how do you have all those porn flyers in

Hugo: the in like the casino downstairs to bring up to bring into because remember

Hugo: they go out in the bags so they have all these bags.

Hugo: They actually carry these giant bags up and put them in this van.

Hugo: it turns out they were all full of porn flyers. How did they get all those porn flyers downstairs?

Bill: Um, I believe they're in one of the carts that the two brothers loads in.

Hugo: But the cart had a yen in it.

Bill: There's more than one like compartment of those carts.

Hugo: It's just, it's crazy. I wouldn't have paid attention to any of the stuff except

Hugo: because we were going to do the episode.

Hugo: Otherwise I was just like, you know, it's like movie magic to us.

Hugo: You know, when you first.

Evan: Especially the title, of this episode is debunking Ocean's Eleven.

Evan: The greatest con, con movie of all time.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: We got con. Dude, that was...

Bill: And Bill defends it the entire time.

Hugo: But can we say...

Evan: Bill Soderbergh.

Hugo: Can we just say... Bill Soderbergh. Can we just say that that is such a good con?

Hugo: I never... Even though this is like my third, fourth time watching,

Hugo: I was like... The whole movie was like, how do they get the money out?

Hugo: I was like, is this one of those films where they leave the money in the place?

Hugo: Like, there's a movie like that where the money never left the vault or something

Hugo: and it was like no it was the SWAT team like what spoiler alert by the way to

Hugo: anyone listening but I just gave up the ending and that that's to me that still

Hugo: surprised me I just watched it on Sunday and I was still like what the SWAT team I forgot going.

Evan: Back to Matt Damon so in the description for him he just is listed as a pickpocket who aids.

Hugo: Danny like.

Evan: Which is kind of a funny way to describe him he's not really a con man like

Evan: he kind of just wings it which is insane.

Hugo: Another funny thing about that

Hugo: Danny Ocean had those cards printed the whole time he was in prison too,

Hugo: there's no way he went to the you know what after prison,

Hugo: respect respect he just.

Evan: It was a nice car really nice car patrick bateman would have been impressed let's.

Hugo: See paul allen's card no no no no wait wait show me danny ocean's card.

Evan: That would be that would actually be a pretty funny meme to make and it's like

Evan: he flips it over and it's and it.

Hugo: Just says whatever he wrote to what was it like you know something's bar like,

Hugo: like mitzvah oh my god it's him.

Evan: The thing that they don't they don't learn it till like one of the sequels is

Evan: like they keep referencing to like matt damon's parents a little bit like oh

Evan: like you know yeah like oh his father like you're you like your assumption he's

Evan: like a big con man but he or something like that you know but it's not like revealed it's.

Hugo: You know all these inconsistencies though like i feel like in the writer's room

Hugo: like they're definitely like no one's gonna like At first sight,

Hugo: people are going to love this film. It is tight.

Hugo: It is fast. There is so much going on. There are so many details.

Hugo: There are so many characters.

Hugo: It's full of comedy and drama and mystery because you don't really know what's

Hugo: going on. There's a sleight of hand thing going on here.

Hugo: So when you're in the writer's room...

Hugo: absolutely killed it like all the details that

Hugo: were all the inconsistencies that we find that's just

Hugo: stuff that like oh you know like it doesn't matter it

Hugo: doesn't matter because the the film works you're still

Hugo: tricked at the end again i still had no idea like wait the money wasn't there

Hugo: the SWAT team took you know it still works and it works really well and you

Hugo: care about you know danny ocean you care about julia roberts terry wouldn't

Hugo: kiss julia roberts even though he owns the casino. Remember that?

Hugo: In the art gallery? He's like, not here. There's always somebody watching. What?

Bill: When they sit down for that date, my wife literally was like,

Bill: what do you talk to with that man?

Bill: What is it like? What do you think being with that man is like?

Bill: What a boring relationship.

Bill: Why would you stay with him?

Hugo: My wife kept saying he looked like Dracula.

Bill: Seriously. She's like, what do you talk to about this, man? I'm like numbers, just numbers go up.

Hugo: It's like, what do you talk to with any rich person? You know what I mean?

Hugo: All those guys are like, yeah, like just the worst people to talk to,

Hugo: especially for like long periods of time in a relationship. You know what I mean?

Hugo: Quick banter, like back and forth, you know, from me working in the service

Hugo: industry, like I could easily have a conversation with guys like that,

Hugo: but just imagine like being in a relationship with that person. Like, oh my God. Yeah.

Bill: I mean, I've, in my position as what I do, like I've talked to,

Bill: I've talked to a lot of fucking rich people, people who really think like people who,

Bill: when I say rich, I mean, fucking really rich people and they talk and it's just

Bill: you, the entire time you just get, it's like, they're just talking to hear themselves talk.

Bill: and it's just like you can talk to them but it's like the entire time it's like

Bill: how can they get out of this trap you want to chew your leg off like a fox in the trap can't.

Hugo: Stand it I also feel like,

Hugo: What we were saying before about how the working class like works together to

Hugo: like and like the rich don't even realize that they're all in solid.

Hugo: They could be in solidarity with themselves because they all know each other.

Hugo: They're from the same class.

Hugo: I feel like the thing that I got is that like, oh, like Terry's character can

Hugo: get away with doing illegal things and having people beat up and having people murdered or whatever.

Hugo: But what we can't see it. You know what I mean? like the government can sell

Hugo: drugs you know and like steal drugs from another country and bring you know flood uh you know kidnap.

Bill: Other countries leaders.

Hugo: Yeah they could kidnap other countries leader they could you

Hugo: know like the opium trade they could like um you know flooding the the hood

Hugo: with crack but if you have a family you know you have two kids and you're trying

Hugo: to feed that family and you and you go sell weed you can get arrested and go

Hugo: to jail for five six years Same thing with Danny Ocean, you know what I mean?

Hugo: Danny Ocean gets arrested and put away for trying to, you know, for one little heist.

Hugo: Meanwhile, you got Terry, you know, ripping places off and stealing, literally gambling.

Hugo: I mean, the house always wins, you know what I mean? So.

Evan: It reminds me too of like just the idea that,

Evan: like wage theft is like the number like exceeds all other types of theft like

Evan: in the entire country and that's just rich people stealing from employers and

Evan: or employees and yeah like you said you know it is funny that you call it like

Evan: one little heist but it's like a hundred.

Bill: But yeah i get just a little heist just a little but like i mean but you know what,

Bill: but you know what like in the grand scheme of things like it

Bill: is straight up this is like when we talk about like

Bill: the comparison of retail theft versus wage theft like yeah

Bill: in comparison to what the federal government does or what the ruling class commits

Bill: against us on a daily basis the 111 million dollars or however that's fucking

Bill: yeah that's one little heist it's tiny it's miniscule. It's fucking meaningless.

Bill: I mean, they're literally right now hiding that they're hiding multiples,

Bill: like, exponentially more money. They're hiding as they prepare to create an

Bill: AI bubble burst. Like...

Hugo: Another example.

Evan: Yeah.

Hugo: Sorry, you go ahead.

Evan: I was just saying like $160 million is it's like a tenth of a billion.

Evan: And you think about the rich people who have hundreds of those billions.

Hugo: So I was going to say it's like the nurses right now striking like they're begging

Hugo: for, you know, equal staffing on the floor so that they can take care of multiple

Hugo: patients at once. And the hospital is like, no.

Hugo: And then as soon as they leave, like we will pay. They're paying travel nurses $10,000 a week.

Hugo: they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to cover the strike meanwhile

Hugo: how much would it cost to just staff the floors better right like it's just like it's.

Evan: Less it's always less yeah it's like how much money amazon and starbucks spend

Evan: to union bust is exceeds the cost of the actual needs but it's not about for

Evan: most of these like it's not about the money they want to pay them,

Evan: it's giving workers any leverage or rights of any kind, because if they give

Evan: them something, oh no, they might actually want more.

Evan: They might want to be paid a little bit more, you know, from these rich billionaires.

Evan: So it's, again, it's like, it's not about the money. It's about the more Danny oceans, please.

Hugo: More Danny oceans. Even you can't be a Danny ocean.

Hugo: Every single one of us can be Danny ocean if we really want it.

Hugo: We just need, also, I love that he always gets arrested in a tux.

Hugo: You notice that? He always walks out of prison.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: Like tux with the, with the collar down, like just classy, classy.

Hugo: Reminds me of Paul Newman and Robert Redford, you know, that whole, like, just real classy.

Hugo: God, I love, yeah. I was just going to say I love George Clooney.

Evan: And you literally just described the cast of The Sting.

Hugo: I love The Sting. That's one of my favorite films of all time.

Hugo: This is, Ocean's Eleven is up.

Hugo: Ocean's Eleven is definitely up there. I think I just, like Bill said,

Hugo: I just love heist movies. I love con artist movies.

Hugo: They're just fun, and I love that they're tricking us. That's what I like that they're trying to get.

Bill: Yeah. It's like a magic trick.

Hugo: Yeah, exactly.

Bill: The movie itself is a magic trick as well. And you, you know,

Bill: it's like you are constantly like, you know, question.

Bill: It's like, Oh, you know, like what is it? You know, perfect.

Hugo: How do you, how do you win these things?

Evan: Yeah. I feel like this is like easily in the top five, if not like top three

Evan: heist movies ever, you know, like this, the sting.

Evan: Um, I feel like there's one I'm missing that goes up there at the top.

Evan: We were going to think of it like we were talking about before.

Bill: Dungeons and Dragons on our month, Thieves.

Bill: which I will match six, listen, match six, when it comes to highest movies,

Bill: I will like, I'm not joking.

Bill: Dungeons and Dragons honors among thieves is a great heist movie and a great fucking movie.

Hugo: I liked it. It was really good. I didn't think I was going to like it.

Hugo: I thought it was going to be corny.

Hugo: And then I saw someone mention it as like, Hey, like this movie is actually

Hugo: pretty good. And it was, it was awesome.

Bill: I never, so I.

Hugo: Didn't think it would be.

Bill: One of the greatest things about that movie. And Evan, you can cut this out.

Bill: Clearly. this is unrelated to oceans 11

Bill: or anything else um if you are

Bill: a dungeons and dragons fan or like a huge

Bill: dungeon dragons nerd as i am um one of the things about that movie which is

Bill: so good is that it really like if you know dungeons and dragons that game that

Bill: movie first of all like the combat actually follows combat rules of dungeons

Bill: and dragons and it fits like actual like initiative turn order of a Dungeons & Dragons combat.

Bill: It fits within the time frame of a Dungeons & Dragons combat,

Bill: the way it would work, and a lot of the characters.

Bill: It's very true to the game. It is very true to the game in a lot of ways.

Evan: I haven't seen it.

Bill: Honestly, it's a great movie. Actually, I love that movie.

Bill: Yes, I am a huge Dungeons & Dragons. I've been playing it forever.

Bill: I've run games forever and written for it. Whatever.

Bill: But yes, I still think it's a great movie.

Hugo: I've always wished I could play Dungeons and Dragons. I played with a group

Hugo: for a little bit, but life is like, it's just, it just never works out.

Hugo: Like there's always so much more going on.

Hugo: So I really wish maybe later in life, you know, when we're one day.

Bill: One day I'll, I'll run one for you and Evan and somebody else,

Bill: at least one other person. Um,

Bill: To go back to the money in the van.

Hugo: Oh, you want to go back?

Bill: I honestly think they just had, like, I don't think it's important.

Bill: I think they just, because like, we don't know where they actually get the bags from.

Bill: Like, assuming that they're like, oh, like, they meet somewhere in the lower levels of the hotel.

Bill: Like, those bags could have been stashed someplace at any point.

Bill: and porn flyers i assume from what movies tell me are not hard to come by or

Bill: they're not rare in vegas like they're

Bill: not rare from what i've been led to believe i've never been to vegas,

Bill: um so i don't think seeing a stack of porn flyers would be you know notable right.

Hugo: I just mean but it definitely is a loose end it feels like a loose end that's

Hugo: what i that's what i'm trying That's another chance.

Bill: It could afford to have been clarified.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hugo: It's just one of those things where like they tricked us and it's like,

Hugo: whoa, good trick. I would have never seen that coming.

Hugo: And then on a rewatch, you're like, oh, where'd that come from?

Hugo: Actually, how did they get that?

Hugo: It doesn't make any sense. And then I'm like, wait, I, the guys.

Bill: I think this is one of those times where you just kind of have to just,

Bill: you just, it's suspension of disbelief. You just go.

Hugo: Yeah. And I think that's the thing with all of it. Like, that's what I was saying,

Hugo: that all of it makes sense in the grand scheme of things, because for the cinematic

Hugo: value, you know, it has to.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: That's like when uh i keep saying i keep bringing up

Hugo: when legolas is like standing on the hill and the horses come up behind them

Hugo: and he like grabs onto the reins and like swings one way but ends up swinging

Hugo: the other way like that defies the laws of physics like how did he do that he's

Hugo: an elf he's an elf he's an elf he's an elf he's an elf like he's an elf elves.

Bill: Can also walk on top of snow.

Hugo: What's your point dude.

Evan: Can see like 50 miles ahead with his.

Hugo: Regular eyes like come on elves.

Bill: Can walk on top of snow like canonically.

Hugo: They can walk.

Bill: On the top of grass if they want.

Hugo: Like i'm not gonna.

Bill: Question i'm not gonna question how he can flip around a horse.

Hugo: That's what i'm saying like that's that's the equivalent of us being like but

Hugo: how did the porn flyers get there like who cares like the.

Bill: Legolas's vision is so like legolas's vision actually proves that middle earth

Bill: is actually flat because otherwise the horizon would have stopped him.

Hugo: Oh you're one of those you're a flat middle earther.

Bill: No but that's that's actually like middle earth is actually flat.

Hugo: Really is it like yeah like war.

Bill: Wise like according to tolkien yes.

Hugo: Middle earth is fat i was gonna say this feels like the conversation this is

Hugo: how the conversation would go with a flat earther like yeah actually He is flat, though. I mean...

Bill: Yeah, but no, actually, Middle-Earth actually is flat.

Hugo: Okay. No, I believe you. I believe that Tolkien. If he said it is, then I believe it.

Hugo: He's looking it up.

Evan: I think you're right, but also wrong. I think he changed it.

Bill: It changes. Yes. Over time, it's, yes, it changes over time.

Hugo: Okay. Oh, my God.

Evan: Are we saying that, was Tolkien the first flat Earth?

Bill: He did not believe the Earth was flat. Okay.

Evan: Number one. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Sorry, Tolkien. Sorry.

Hugo: We can't hear you.

Evan: I apologize.

Hugo: Not where he is.

Evan: Do you have any final thoughts to go on? I almost said on seize the means, but like, that's you.

Evan: um on uh on uh oceans 11.

Hugo: Um no just i feel like what i said in

Hugo: the beginning that i you know it had a big impact on me when

Hugo: i was when i was younger and looking at it now it's

Hugo: just it's such a perfect film because it's again

Hugo: it's like a match it's like they're doing a match it's like you know

Hugo: when you walk what you see like new york is when you go

Hugo: to the street and there's a guy with a box and he's doing like the three

Hugo: card trick like the sleight of hand three card monty there's

Hugo: a car that's what this film feels like they're just what's it

Hugo: called three card monty three card monty yes it's

Hugo: like that's what the whole film is it's like they make you think one

Hugo: thing and you have no idea you have

Hugo: no idea i didn't even you know the only reason i knew there was going to be

Hugo: a twist this time around is because i'd seen it before but like the first time

Hugo: you watch it you're like what is go how are they going to do this and then you

Hugo: don't never see the twist coming um and you like all the characters you know

Hugo: i liked the way every single character was introduced.

Hugo: You know, like the way everyone kind of knows each other, even when you don't

Hugo: think they know each other, they do know each other.

Hugo: There's so much backstory that you don't get you know, that you don't know beforehand.

Hugo: Anyway, love the film.

Hugo: Like my wife says, this film, she says it's about many films,

Hugo: but it would have been perfect if they just would have kissed at the end.

Hugo: If everyone would have kissed at the end.

Bill: They did kiss.

Hugo: George Clooney and Brad Pitt did not kiss at the end.

Evan: Oh, okay.

Hugo: Great great chemistry no kissing he.

Evan: Brad pitt couldn't have kissed him because he would have had food.

Hugo: Yeah he.

Bill: Would have to stop eating.

Evan: So i i actually forgot to share this the reason why he's eating the whole time

Evan: was his own idea that he was saying how like when you're involved in one of

Evan: heists like this you're constantly stressed and planning and you don't have

Evan: time to eat so he's just like all right i'm gonna be casing the joint i'm gonna just be eating a.

Hugo: Shrimp cocktail you know whatever he's eating a burger when he picks him up

Hugo: from jail he looks like he's gonna puke.

Evan: He's got a lollipop.

Hugo: He looks like he's gonna puke at the end he's like he's.

Bill: Developing the old man's ulcers.

Hugo: Ah literally it's coming around

Hugo: you're right i didn't even think that's that's

Hugo: great that's very well love that that's why

Hugo: he has ulcers because he's always stress he saw was always stress eating i thought

Hugo: he died at the end he did technically die i think that's why i thought he died

Hugo: because he fakes he snakes the whole movie as soon as they introduced i was

Hugo: like oh man i told my wife oh poor guy dies at the end and he doesn't die.

Evan: And they and they also like that's crazy too not only do they fake the swat but they also fake the.

Hugo: Emt oh yeah and the doctor remember brad pitt is a doctor with the dumb wig.

Evan: Yeah his wig is terrible oh man.

Hugo: Oh my god great film.

Evan: It's just, it's a classic. Like it's one of those ones where,

Evan: like I said, like you could just turn it on. Like it doesn't matter. Just watch it.

Hugo: Oh, and George Clooney and Brad Pitt have such good chemistry.

Hugo: I was going to say that the reason I remembered all this because I turned on,

Hugo: they have a new film out where George Clooney and Brad Pitt, it's called Wolfs.

Hugo: W-O-L-F-S, which is not the plural of Wolfs.

Bill: Yeah, that's not that. That's not what that word is.

Hugo: It's about an action comedy film starring George William and Brad Pitt as rival

Hugo: fixers forced to work together to cover up a crime leading to a chaotic night in New York City.

Hugo: It's one of those where if you watch the trailer, they give away the entire

Hugo: film. So you know it can't be that great.

Bill: It's a good thing I don't watch trailers.

Hugo: Can't be that great. But it looks entertaining enough.

Hugo: You get to watch those two guys, you know. Yeah, don't watch the trailer.

Hugo: All the jokes are in the trailer. You know what I mean?

Evan: Yeah. I was saying the only time I ever watched trailers really is if it's a

Evan: movie I know that I'm not going to see or like a dumb movie like where it doesn't matter.

Evan: Or if I go to a movie like in the theater and like you're kind of forced,

Evan: they're on the screen. So the goal is to get there late or just like be on your

Evan: phone and yuck it up with the people around you being like, ha ha ha.

Evan: That's got to hurt, you know, like be one of those guys. I love this movie.

Evan: It's so good. And we're joking too. We should just do more heist movies as the

Evan: heist crew, like the Ocean's,

Evan: The Left of the Projector 3. The Sting would be a really good one to do.

Evan: Or maybe one of these ones you talked about, bajillionaires. Or kajillionaires.

Bill: Though I do think that both of you were entirely too critical of,

Bill: you know, way too much pointing out of supposed inconsistencies.

Bill: So, you know, that will have to be addressed.

Evan: The director would say that.

Bill: That will have to be addressed.

Hugo: It's i feel like there were there were so many because it's so big it's such

Hugo: a big film there were so many characters and it's a lot going on yeah there's.

Bill: A lot going on.

Hugo: And the but the writing so tight so tight like dialogue everything is just like

Hugo: bam bam bam bam like there's the hits just keep coming every single scene is

Hugo: a is a hit or funny or you know oh what about when When Frank's face,

Hugo: when Frank strong arms the car dealer, he just squeezes his...

Bill: With the gloves. Wow. I thought I'm allergic to the camp.

Bill: Which, you know what? Bernie Mac, every time I watch this movie,

Bill: I just think, Bernie Mac, what a fucking loss.

Bill: Like, just such a fucking incredible actor.

Bill: Absolutely amazing. he his presence in this movie really is something else like

Bill: his portrayal the scene where it's everything he does in this movie is so like,

Bill: It feels understated and yet so powerful.

Bill: The entire scene when he is in the room, the interrogation room with Matt Damon

Bill: and Eddie Garcia, and the way he responds and the little hand gestures by the mouth.

Evan: And he like waves his hand away.

Bill: All those little, like, he puts his hand by his mouth, like he's covering it up. It's all so perfect.

Bill: Bernie Mac, what a fucking legend.

Hugo: This like naturally what a.

Evan: Fucking legend yeah and like i almost feel like those weren't even necessarily

Evan: things they made i mean i don't know exactly if they told him to do those things

Evan: but like it just seems like he just is a natural you think he said like a natural

Evan: yeah just naturally funny doesn't he just.

Hugo: He definitely did a couple of cakes and he was just joking around

Hugo: like back and forth you know with matt damon like you know kind of

Hugo: yelling stuff yeah unrelated to this i saw a thing

Hugo: on interview with samuel l jackson he was saying that one of the annoying

Hugo: things is that back in the day like when things were on film

Hugo: like every take counted and now like

Hugo: they'll just like these new directors just film

Hugo: everything because it's all digital and a little chip and they'll just so you'll

Hugo: do like millions of takes and like you could you know it's just like keep it

Hugo: rolling you know it's just like so one of one of those things but i love remember

Hugo: outtakes at the end of the comedy films like at the end it's out film outtakes

Hugo: so it made me think of the bernie Mac and Damon thing.

Hugo: They probably have a bunch of funny takes going back and forth.

Bill: They still do outtakes, but nowadays they feel so much weaker.

Bill: I feel like it's like they don't... Because it's always going.

Bill: That's one of the things you see a lot of people talking about the film,

Bill: like film versus digital. They never really...

Bill: Nobody ever talks about that part. You know, it's always about,

Bill: like, oh, you know, like, how it makes it feel, you know, and the superiority

Bill: of, like, film over digital for various reasons.

Bill: And they never, you know, they never talk about that kind of,

Bill: like, aspect of it that, you know, in some ways it can lead to a more freeing,

Bill: you know, it's, like, because you could just keep honing things.

Hugo: Yeah, that's true.

Bill: It's interesting, you know.

Evan: Stanley Kubrick did not get the memo about stock being so precious.

Evan: yeah certainly some people did not care but then you also look at movies now

Evan: that are made with film like you know oppenheimer and sinners and these movies

Evan: like that are like like they're true crafts you know and so i think there's

Evan: something to be something that's lost with that.

Hugo: The music like the dancing scene in sinners or like they switch from different

Hugo: like eras remember that like scene god.

Bill: Fucking oh my god oh my god.

Hugo: Beautiful just so beautifully choreographed and like i wish i want to watch

Hugo: the making like do they have something out that's like the making of sinners out already i.

Evan: Have the blu-ray but i've only watched it i haven't watched any of the extras so i'm.

Hugo: Not sure i could watch like i could watch i love making of films that we love

Hugo: you know what i mean like so i would love to i.

Bill: Had the soundtrack on vinyl and i listened to it That's what I do.

Hugo: Oh, wonderful.

Bill: Oh, actually the sound, the, the

Bill: vinyl soundtrack has like a whole book on like, with like lore and shit.

Bill: It's pretty good. I'll have to, I'll have to go through. I'll take some pictures.

Bill: You know why they had that dancing scene in center style?

Bill: Because they couldn't afford special effects. So they had to,

Bill: you know, they did cut the dancing.

Hugo: That is such a, I did not realize that I, you know, I don't,

Hugo: I remember putting, I don't,

Hugo: and not finishing it i remember.

Bill: Was it.

Hugo: A musical did they really sing and dance in it in the original oceans 11.

Bill: No no this person is fucking unhinged it's totally irrelevant for.

Evan: People who need context here someone on reddit was complaining that the original

Evan: oceans 11 is one better than this one which is not true.

Bill: I don't know i don't think they know okay i will

Bill: read the thing this was

Bill: taken from reddit as a discussion about ocean's love

Bill: and the remake versus original the original comment

Bill: was that they liked the new one better because

Bill: and partly because such a star

Bill: studded cast somebody responds to

Bill: them and this is not them saying even that

Bill: the original was better but just that this

Bill: person didn't understand because times were

Bill: different and they said that's because you weren't born

Bill: back in that time which i also just love

Bill: it makes it sound like it was like 200 years ago

Bill: um during the time that the original was made dean martin sammy damas jr etc

Bill: were just as big as pit clooney and damon were in the remake if not bigger mind

Bill: you i'm not going to read it as this person wrote it which involves way too

Bill: many exclamation points and lots of caps,

Bill: because there's many actors to choose from back then. I'm just reading straight.

Bill: As there are today, that's why they are still remembered today as icons.

Bill: These movies were made back in a time when they actually had to act instead

Bill: of just using the F word, every other word, or blow in a bunch of things up,

Bill: which again, Ocean's Eleven, they're talking about the difference,

Bill: the comparison between these movies.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven, barely any cursing.

Hugo: No, yeah.

Bill: Barely any cursing. And nothing is blown up. They blow up the money. You don't even see it.

Hugo: But Matt Locke, Matt Locke. Matt Locke's closed their guns.

Bill: There are no major explosions are not a plot point in this movie.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Bill: In the comparison between these things, this is not a relevant argument.

Bill: And I'm not saying that Pitt, Clooney, and Damon are not good actors,

Bill: because they are some of the best.

Bill: Brad Pitt is my very favorite actor along with Damon. Personally, I can't stand Clooney.

Bill: I'm just saying it was a different era, and movies were different back then.

Bill: They didn't have all the special effects, et cetera, that we have to make movies

Bill: today. That makes an actor's job seem like he's doing a better job than he might really be doing.

Bill: I dispute that. I don't think special effects makes an actor's job easier.

Bill: That seems psychotic, especially because they're basically claiming explosions

Bill: make acting easier. I don't understand that.

Hugo: Okay. I admit I was going off of what you guys were saying in the chat.

Hugo: That's why I didn't understand.

Bill: Because, yeah, back then they had to do a lot of singing and dancing and other

Bill: things that actually ended up making a movie. because they did not have special

Bill: effects to make up for it.

Hugo: That's what I saw.

Bill: I love this idea. This person believes that back in the day when they would

Bill: have done something with special effects nowadays, instead they cut the song.

Bill: They're just like, fuck it. We can't blow this building up. Bring in Fred Astaire.

Bill: What the fuck are you talking about?

Evan: Let's see them remake a sound of music, which is lots of explosions and shit.

Bill: The Michael Bay sound of... This person's like literally... In their thesis,

Bill: Michael Bay is like, he's the auteur today because he's using the tools we have

Bill: available, which is explosions as opposed to music.

Bill: you know if michael bay had made the original west side story then no explosions

Bill: all dance it would have been no different because that's what you did back then

Bill: instead of have explosions,

Bill: okay i want to i want i i

Bill: want to make a fan cut of like i don't know a

Bill: fast and the furious movie right and every time something blows

Bill: up instead we just cut to dick van dyke he's he's doing a soft shoe shuffle

Bill: that's what i want every time just boom car blows up no boom fred astaire dancing

Bill: i don't i don't know other dancer people i don't know i don't tell you people

Bill: i don't know who else dances i.

Hugo: Don't know who else.

Bill: Ginger rogers it's ginger rogers fred astaire dick van dyke those Those are the only people I know.

Hugo: John Travolta. Grease.

Bill: Okay. All right. Yeah. They had explosions back then. That was a novelty. That was just.

Evan: Patrick Swayze.

Hugo: Patrick Swayze.

Evan: Dirty Dancing. Dirty Dancing.

Hugo: But he didn't sing and dance. He never sung and danced.

Bill: Yeah, he didn't sing and dance.

Evan: That's true. He's not a good actor.

Bill: No, you need to have singing and dancing. Without singing and dancing,

Bill: it doesn't make up for the lack of an explosion or the F-word.

Bill: That's also, you can just cut from the F-word to a dance scene.

Bill: Okay, but then what I love about this then is that this person now,

Bill: mid-conversation, saying this person just says, cuts to a description of them

Bill: watching the original Ocean's Eleven and saying, it is terrible and boring,

Bill: and they are falling asleep.

Hugo: I can't remember finishing the

Hugo: original. I feel like I put it on and I got bored. But I'm not 100% sure.

Bill: I never remember that it exists.

Hugo: Sometimes it's hard to watch the original of something when the remake is good and fast-paced.

Hugo: Like, Ocean's Eleven is very fast-paced. There's a lot going on. It's great.

Hugo: I don't remember the original Ocean's Eleven. You know what I did see the other

Hugo: day is A Star is Born, the 1937 one. Very good.

Hugo: Very, very good. It's not about a single at all. It's about like an actor.

Hugo: Where like the new one was, what's his face? With Bradley Cooper or Lady Gaga.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: I don't even think, oh, I didn't watch that. I actually don't know.

Hugo: I just saw this line where he's like, hey, I just wanted to see your face one more time. I love that.

Hugo: just wanted to see a smile on woodtown great film.

Evan: I got i got nothing else but uh hugo it's been a pleasure as always good time let the projector thank.

Bill: You for joining.

Evan: Us uh,

Evan: With Bill, of course, and you can subscribe to Let's Projector and you can go

Evan: follow Seize the Means shirts at all platforms.

Evan: TikTok still, do you still use? Yeah, I assume you still don't.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: I don't have TikTok. Instagram primarily.

Bill: We'll put all that in the show notes. So if people want to follow,

Bill: they can follow from our show notes. We'll put all the info right in there.

Bill: You should follow Seize the Means shirts.

Bill: He has incredible puppets. They are the best.

Hugo: We're having a good time over here in the puppet world.

Bill: The Sesame Street of Marxism.

Hugo: That's what we do over here.