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Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean,

and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

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of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated

to amplifying the work of activists, examining

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power structures, and sharing the success stories

from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

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we hope to provide folks with the tools and

the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

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capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring

about the political revolution that we know

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we need. The tenant class is It's here and

it's not just this small number of like, you

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know, the average of 30 % or kind of like 50

% maybe. Depending on where you are, it is

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the vast majority of people. The tenant class

certainly is here and we are about to hear

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from two people organizing towards some incredible

goals to that very end. The Vancouver Tenants

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Union is in our studio. They're going to provide

some insight into the work that they do building

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power from below. in neighborhoods where they've

got some of the highest concentration of renters

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on the continent. The variety of campaigns

they've got going on doesn't just speak to

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the complexity of issues facing tenants, but

also to the value of a decentralized organization

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that's able to respond locally as needed. Now,

they've been at this for over a decade, but

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their approach has shifted over those years.

Some very hard lessons had to be learned, a

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lot of reflection, and in the end, they came

out the other side with a basis of unity to

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be proud of and really a new way forward. In

the same way they hope newer members can lean

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on what the VTU have already been through, I

hope their story can serve as a cautionary

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tale for organizers listening in, particularly

when it comes to what they have to say. about

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engaging with electoral politics. Before we

jump right into the discussion, I want to remind

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folks that we do rely almost entirely on word

of mouth to grow our audience. Sharing the

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episode on your social media feeds is one easy

way to help us out. You can also leave a review

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on whatever platform you're using to listen

right now. Lord knows the algorithm owned by

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billionaires. is not going to boost our show.

So we need you for that. On that note, let's

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hear more about that tenant class from Ben and

Asura. Welcome gentlemen. Can you introduce

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yourself to the audience, please? Ben, do you

want to start? Hi, my name is Ben. I'm an

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organizer and member of the Vancouver Tenants

Union. And I'm here with, my name is Asura.

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I'm also an organizer here in Vancouver. I

live in the West End and I've been with the

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union for... two, three years. The union itself

is about five years old. I was scoping out

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the website. if it's almost a decade, you guys

got to update your website or maybe it was

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in your basis of unity and you're talking about

the history, which we'll get into later. But

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we've talked to quite a few tenant unions on

blueprints of disruption, but never quite one

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with so many chapters. Would you consider yourself

a coalition of tenant unions? You know, the

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union certainly has a priority of of promoting

autonomy within the Union. But we make a clear

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distinction of this autonomy within the Union

as opposed to autonomy from the Union. We

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try to be quite closely tied together and that's

sort of a challenge that we're constantly facing,

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but we do have principles that we all abide

by, a sort of common set of values, and we

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all learn from each other and try to get together

as much as humanly possible. something closer

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or more akin to a network than a coalition,

I would say, it's still one organization. And

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I think as you just mentioned, I think it's

really important that you also just mentioned

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the basis of unity. I think there are critical

pieces that try to maintain kind of like coordinate

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and like create at least some form of a unified

front while we're also exploring autonomy and

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kind of like letting chapters explore their

own needs, know, the particular kind of like

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circumstances, the neighborhoods in Vancouver

differ a lot depending kind of like organizing.

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will change, the needs will change depending

on what kind of part of the city you're in.

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And I imagine, you know, folks want to choose

different tactics, perhaps based on the type

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of landlord that they're facing. Before we started

recording, you mentioned one of the challenges,

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we'll use the word challenges, that you face

is adapting to different kinds of landlords.

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Can you talk about that a little bit, how campaigns

might differ or where there's, you know, give

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an example of a particular type of landlord

that is a struggle to go up against perhaps.

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In terms of categorizing the types of fights

the union gets into, I would say at a baseline,

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what the union is most focused on is organizing

what we call tenant collectives, other places

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called tenant associations or tenant unions

of their own. The name that's happened to

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come up here is collectives, just buildings,

you know, people who are fighting against their

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landlord with multiple units all sort of tying

together. But it's not the only type of fight

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we do. Uh, we, also do, uh, some, we call

neighborhood fights. These are, you know, in

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Vancouver, are neighborhoods like the West End,

like I sort of said, or, or maybe just calling

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with the have a lot more of these apartment

buildings. Uh, but there's also tons of neighborhoods

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in the city, in the same city that are mostly

single family, like residential neighborhoods

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where the type of fight that we're taking on

is between a basement suite renter and their

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landlord. And trying to figure out how to collectivize

that into a neighborhood fight is, a totally

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different ballpark. Especially because sometimes

the landlords aren't these massive corporate

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landlords. Sometimes they're these quote unquote

good mom and pop landlords who in reality are

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oftentimes sometimes the worst, the most abusive.

And maybe they own a couple other units, maybe

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they're on the same street, maybe they're not,

but you're having to sort of navigate a different

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terrain. And the last type of fight we do is

what we call site fights, which we've primarily

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done in coalition with other organizations so

far, but this is like a One big one in the

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city is called 105 Keifer. It's the type of

fight where the lot is empty and a developer

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is trying to come in and turn that into, let's

say luxury condominiums. 105 Keifer was a

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site fight in Chinatown that's been going on

for, my God, itself almost a decade or something

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like this that keeps coming up over and over.

But Chinatown and the downtown East side are

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both part of what at times has been referred

to as the poorest postal code in Canada or

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North America. I don't think it is right now,

but it's a neighbourhood pretty deeply entrenched

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with poverty and they've been trying to build

really expensive luxury condominiums there

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for quite some time. We've seen a couple of

those types of fights in Toronto. Vancouver

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has a lot of renters. According to the data

you folks were sharing, 50 % I think the nationwide

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average or in Ontario in general, it's 30%.

But you know, looking at Vancouver, 50 % is

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a lot and like 60 % of the housing in Vancouver

are... rentals. I don't know how that math

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works out, but it does. Those are incredible

numbers. I got a smile when I was reading one

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your folks were quoted in a CBC article that

you would love to have a rep in every building.

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And I thought that gave me a big smile. That

is the idea, right? Could you imagine being

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able to mobilize 50 % of the residents of Vancouver

when needed? That's a dream, isn't it? You

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folks have quite a few members already. Like

we're looking at over 2,000, you said? I think

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we're over 3,000 now. You guys got to update

your website for sure. You got way more to

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brag about. Like my notes are all out of date,

but tell me more about what it looks like right

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now and how fast it's growing in Vancouver.

This idea of organizing as tenants, because

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I think some people maybe a few years ago saw

this as unimaginable to kind of gain these

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kinds of numbers or especially to think of a

rep in every building and point person in every

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neighborhood. So where are at now with the Vancouver

tenant union? would also just quickly like

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to add to the 50 % number. It's really interesting

to these numbers are important because they

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obviously describe the averages, but Vancouver

also has the West End. we are currently in

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the West End. matter of I live in the West End

and the West End has 80 % rent areas. And the

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West End is the densest neighborhood in Vancouver.

I actually do believe that it's the densest

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renters neighborhood in North America because

we just have these, a lot of six story, seven

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story, older apartments, but also in the 67

days they built a lot of kind of like towers,

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like rental apartment, purposeful like rental

towers. And I think it's important to acknowledge

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that the tenant class is... It's here and it's

not just the small number of like, you know,

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the average of 30 % or kind of like 50 % maybe.

Like depending on where you are, it is the

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vast majority of people. I think it would be

the dream to have a lead or kind of like an

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organized building and like an organization

of kind of like a tenant collective in every

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building. And I think we're really hopeful.

This last year especially has been... very

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exciting for the union. There's a lot of growth.

As Ben said, we're now over 3,000 members.

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But also there's really an exciting part about

that growth is that it's not only growth in

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terms of of like members joining the larger

union, but also chapters, which is beautiful

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to see that new neighborhoods end up kind of

like trying to come together, having their

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first chapter meetings, finding a building.

Often these kind of like new developments might

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be rooted in a concrete building and they're

gonna specific fight against kind of like a

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landlord, an issue, foreign issue. But I think

we are also having cases where, I don't know,

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like members move across the city into a new

neighborhood or meet friends, neighbors, and

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just decide to start slowly building a chapter

and kind of like joining this fight. I don't

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know, is it a dream to have at some point somebody

in every building? Sure, I mean, I think it's

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a dream to have as many people who are actively

involved in the union as possible. think one,

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because then we can, you know, like you said,

mobilize people for these big type of fights.

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The union has been doing a lot of thinking as

well about our conception of moving from here

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to liberation, whatever that looks like for

everyone. But for us, it's really laid out

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in our basis of unity. This idea of tenant control,

community control over buildings, this idea

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of a world without rent, a world without landlords.

And to get there, we have to imagine what

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that world would look like at least a little

bit, how decisions would be made, both on

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an individual building level, which requires

some level of tenant organization everywhere,

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but also on a neighborhood level, where tenants

from various buildings can come together and

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discuss how they want their neighborhood to

look and change and build. That's rooted really

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in... in working class and poor people's experiences

and struggles and keeping people in their

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neighborhood and in their communities if they

want to. And so to do that, I think, you know,

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this is where this sort of idea of having reps

in every building, of building these neighborhood

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chapters come in. It's sort of a prefigurative

idea of what decision-making could look like

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if it wasn't so based in, you know, the colonial

government. You know, if City Hall here...

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wasn't the one who were calling all the shots,

but the people in their own neighborhoods collectively

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through direct democracy were able to do this

sort of work. And so that's what the union

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is really working towards in a long-term goal.

And we take that day by day and step by step.

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So yeah, I can't see a problem with the idea

of having more people and more buildings that

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are actively engaged in their local chapters.

Oh no, like even when you run a political campaign

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and the idea is to at least get a point person,

you know, doesn't necessarily be an institution

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behind it, but just someone, a contact that'll

let you know when something's going on, when

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there's enough disgruntled people to kind of

get in there. And that is not unattainable

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at all. No, no, you folks can definitely do

that. And Toronto organizing is on fire right

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now. In Montreal, there was just a conference,

a housing justice conference. folks, it's

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growing just as a tactic, right? We've broken

away from labor being the only way that we

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can organize ourselves. Quite rapidly, it feels

like, or at least like I am discovering how

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the growth of it in the last year and a half.

obviously, know, folks have been around for

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10 years, you've already laid a lot of groundwork.

I feel like Ben, when you were just talking

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there, you're kind of leading me into one of

the campaigns, moving is not an option. You

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talk about staying in the neighborhood if you

want to or need to, right? Like if moving

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isn't an option, but you also talked about the

bureaucracy and the institutions that we're

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up against. And quite often, you know, there

are legal avenues. We have the Landlord Tenant

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Board. You folks have the RTB, right? Similar

thing, it's loaded against us, very difficult

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to get victories, not impossible, but very hard

and expensive. So tenant unions, right?

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And like, you know, not allowing, if you agree

that are a way to bypass these institutions

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where we don't need to rely on legal victories.

Because I feel like, you know, maybe you could

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take us through Abby's story, but part of it,

I'll spoiler. is that yeah, that there was

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a loss at the RTB, but that certainly hasn't

stopped the campaign or you folks insisting

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that Abby be allowed to stay, right? So it wasn't

the be all end all. Do you wanna talk about

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that campaign and what it represents for your

group? This is one of those neighborhood style

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campaigns that we were talking about. So Abby

lives in a basement suite in a home. She's

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been there for 17 years. Her landlord lives

directly above her. Abby, you know, self describes

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as a senior with disabilities and she's on a

fixed income and her landlord over the last

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year has slowly been, you know, sort of pushing

her about the idea of moving out and then lo

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and behold, delivered this rent increase to

her, legal rent increase to her of over 40%.

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I think it was 42 % or something like this.

And when Abby refused, And to clarify, this

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is before Abby was involved with the union.

Her refusal wasn't even a full blown, you know,

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I'm not paying this. I'll pay the maximum allowed,

which is like 3 % or something like this. She

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refused and agreed still to a 20 % rent increase

with the landlord, which she regrets, but she

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felt really pressured. She didn't know what

to do. She thought she would lose her home.

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And this is a common experience amongst a lot

of tenants, but this didn't satisfy the landlord.

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you know, this landlord was furious with her.

She remained upset with her. From that moment

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on, the relationship was completely fractured.

And lo and behold, a couple of months later,

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received an eviction notice for landlord use,

which in BC is quickly rising. And I think

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at this point, it's certainly the most rising

cause of tenant evictions after there's been

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some regulations of renovation evictions or

rent evictions, as we call them. You know,

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Abby receives this clearly bogus eviction order.

When they get to the RTB, which is like our

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quasi court for tenants, the landlord story

changes. It's now about how she has a foot

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injury and she needs to live on the basement

floor, the ground floor. Meanwhile, the same

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landlord goes dancing for multiple hours twice

a week and is also quite active, know, walking,

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walks her dog every single day, even though

there's other people in the house that could

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do this for her. So she lives an active lifestyle,

you know. Whatever, maybe there is an injury,

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who knows, but it's clearly not enough to justify

evicting someone who's been living in their

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neighborhood, deeply tied to her neighborhood

for almost two decades. And who would essentially

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be forced maybe out of their neighborhood or

even face homelessness, right, with that fixed

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income and the way that rents have risen. Totally.

the board, right? Like that's the reality.

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It's not just you have to find a new place

to live. Sometimes it means there is almost

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no option left for. for folks like Abby? 100%.

I mean, Abby says it quite often that she says

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that moving would quite literally kill her.

And it's real, know? Like, Abby suffers from

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a lot of different disabilities that cause chronic

pain, very serious chronic pain for her. And

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yeah, you know, there's community that can help

her to a degree, but even just packing up her

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stuff, which is a deeply personal experience.

This has been really damaging to her and being

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able to not only physically move, but find new

services. She has a lot of local services that

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she relies on, her RMT. That's her community.

We have every right to stay in our communities.

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When I first saw that campaign, I didn't actually

realize it was for an individual. It really

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isn't just for Abby that that campaign is for.

But just that phrasing, housing, that moving

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is not an option, I think would resonate with

so many people, describes the situation and

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that power struggle and the not understanding

what your rights are. Like some people would

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have just walked away when the landlord said,

you got to be out of here, you should be out

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of here because they can't deal with that toxic

situation that sometimes arises out of that

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or the abuse. of landlords after that, because

that's really what it is, right? They almost

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torment you into leaving. And people anticipate

that. And so they're just like, oh, you know,

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I'll just get out of here. It's not a fight.

But knowing there's a union around, maybe,

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you you're not a part of, but you know it's

a thing. You know you've seen people fighting

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back against landlords because that's the biggest

mental barrier I think some people have. These

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are, you know, if you're to be evicted, you're

to be evicted. You know, like that's it. It's

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a done deal. Even if you know about the RTB,

you know, some people might not, but you don't,

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and you know how bad it is. But, you know,

it's just a game changer, I think, having

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tenant unions, especially one as strong as

yours. But we've seen folks really get fired

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up simply from galvanizing around a landlord

trying to enter a unit without proper notice.

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You know, it seems like a small thing. It's

a thing. Tenants have to deal with all the

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time and we just usually complain to each other

a little bit like that fucker, you know, I

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didn't even know they were coming in and my

cat is loose and you know, like all kinds of

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things just inconveniences, but it stems from

that power imbalance. And so instead of just

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approaching the unit bickering with the landlord,

there's like six or seven people standing there

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reminding them, we know our rights, we will

defend each other. And like that kind of. sits

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with landlords as much as it sits with tenants,

which is nice to see them squirm like that.

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Do you have any other campaigns that you think

really personify the work that you do or you

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want to highlight for folks? As mentioned earlier,

talk about the West End. 80 percent. Yeah.

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In the future, be a site of a lot of fights,

especially very particular type of fight.

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We are slowly building towards more and more

cases where multiple buildings, multiple tenant

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collectives come together to fight. single landlord,

their common landlord. And especially in the

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West End, think we have, you might've also

seen it on the website. It has been one of

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the major campaigns now for almost a year.

The Park Beach tenants, Park Beach tenants

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collective fighting their quite awful landlord,

Plan A, real estate services. Plan A basically.

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Plan A is, might be one of the worst landlords

ever that we're dealing with. Plan A itself

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is... Not a corporate landlord, exactly. It's

not kind of like the, not a REIT, it's not

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kind of like one of those big organizations

that just kind of like, often our experience,

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we see that these, biggest corporate landlords

kind of try to play by the books. We were just

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truly shocked by Plan A's very shocking tactics

that genuinely have been, I think, taking

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not only the tenants but... think some of the

organizers by surprise about how outrightly

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evil and harmful and direct these of like threatening

tactics, the harassment, all the different

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ways of trying to basically suppress any kind

of like, not only collective efforts once we've

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started to fight back, but also at an individual

level of kind of like genuinely not attempting

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to hide intentions here, praying for the most

vulnerable. To describe the tactic briefly,

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it's plan A will buy up. very particular type

of apartment building. Typically two to three

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floors, maybe four. Often they will basically

try to very quickly get through the long standing

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tenants, get rid of them. And then obviously

kind of like try to slowly also turn those

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units into, to kind of renovate them, break

them up into smaller units, increase the number

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of beds, increase the number of rooms. They

definitely run a lot of illegal Airbnb's.

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Like in one case there that we found a building

where We met someone who was staying at one

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of the units for a month and they were being

charged $10,000 for the single month's as an

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Airbnb stay, which is illegal for the short-term

rentals, but the city doesn't care. There's

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no real enforcement by any government. On top

of that, I mean, like, makes it very clear

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why he would want to evict people. You move

from making maybe $1,100, $1,200 on these long-term

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tenants to $10,000 overnight. a month. Or in

other cases, he would then continue to lease

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places out to a lot of times new arrivals

in the city. that be international students,

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maybe workers, but again, preying on people

who might not be familiar with their rights,

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who might not have established communities,

who might not have friends or even family

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to just support them. It's truly shocking at

how also efficient and how well it works because

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the city does not care about it. The city has

known about Plan A's behavior for 10 years.

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We've had MLAs supporting previous prior

buildings at rallies and kind of like stepping

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up and declaring their support. But what we

effectively see is that Plan A has been allowed

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to continue what they've been doing for the

last 10 years while basically the city politicians

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are watching on. I hear you talking about some

support you got from MLAs. but I can't help

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but I'm gonna go back to your basis of unity.

We've kind of, we dabble in it. We're gonna

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dabble in it because it's got, know, trying

to get an idea of your ideology going through

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your website. And again, another big smile when

you reject a lot of things. A lot of things

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are worded like that. Even on the front page,

you know, we reject. speculative market or

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housing that should be a commodity. I mean,

you've said all that, but it also says very

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explicitly, we reject electoral politics. As

do I. I mean, I try to humor it every now and

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again because there are comrades that want to

take that route and let them be. However, I

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will not spend my energy there. And I think

that's exactly how you folks, oh no, I have

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the whole quote. We reject electoral politics.

Our power is wasted when we direct it towards

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reformist compromises with capital and real

estate power, which is basically your city

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council, right? Power is never conceded from

above, only seized from below. I love your

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basis of unity. I can understand, however, how

it's hard to onboard people with these. Some

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of them seem unachievable and, you know, really

far left. I mean, where we're at, which is

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fine, that... The language isn't always the

best, but from people just entering because

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they hate their landlord, not because they want

a revolution. They're like, whoa, I don't

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know if I'm there yet. We'll get there. But

I love how you folks have basically structured

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yourself around taking the steps to get there.

You're not going for free housing at the moment,

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even though that is your number one point under

basis of unity. Housing should be free. Do

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want to talk about the steps that you are taking

to get people there or to get us collectively

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there to the idea that housing shouldn't be

a commodity? support that Sor is referring

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to from provincial MLAs is from previous fights

that the VT was not involved in with this landlord.

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So highlighting how Plan A has been a menace

in the city for a very long time and that before

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the union even existed, you know these these

provincial legislators were coming to tenants

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who had organically organized autonomously to

fight their landlords and offered support but

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with you know no real change they weren't able

to save those tenants those tenants themselves

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ended up all being evicted that that whole building

is now also expensive airbnbs that both the

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province and the city are totally aware of and

extremely ugly and extremely ugly they look

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they look like shit Um, which yeah, who would

have guessed when you put the design of a city

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in the hands of some loser billionaire guys

that they would make it look like shit. The

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building equivalent of the cyber truck. Yeah,

exactly. It's actually a good comparison. Yeah,

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Nazi building. So the, the union's attitude

towards politicians and their ideas of change

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or bringing people along with this sort of stuff.

It's a big question. Yeah. I mean, the union

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went through a very long period of exploring

these ideas ourselves that got us to this point,

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you know, when When the union was first starting

off, spent a lot of time doing electoral work.

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There was a lot more centralized control in

the union, would say. And those who did sort

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of have the reins really focused the union's

efforts these ways. But we had almost nothing

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to show for it, know, by the end of it all.

There's an article on our website, I think

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it's called, What Did Four Years at City Hall

Get Us? You know, we mobilized a ton of people

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to come out constantly to win small legislative

reforms. And the result was one, either they

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were watered down by the policymakers who were

all themselves funded by developers beyond

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recognition, or two, they were passed. And then

the bureaucrats, this massive bureaucracy

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inside of the colonial state, which is all trained

themselves by developer-funded industries

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and institutions and schools that are all paid

for by Landlord BC or I can't remember the

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development. It doesn't matter. There's a development

is developers institution that also funds the

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schools. They like completely refused to implement

the reforms. They would say, oh, we're studying

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them. We're studying them. We're studying them.

And they would never come back. Like truly

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never. You mean things that were passed by council.

Yeah. Oh, that. How do you go back and like

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that is so rough to have like those victories,

right? And then we try to like take moment

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and celebrate our victories and then only to

just reassess a few months later to see. Maybe

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they weren't after all I mean you gotta find

little bits to celebrate but that's that's

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rough to hear that. There's that level of gatekeeping

beyond winning you know the bylaw. And the

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reinforcement issue you mentioned like that's

common in a lot of cities where they get renovation

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victories it might not look exactly like their

proposed renovation bylaws but they get one

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but then no room in the budget at all for increased.

enforcement when enforcement was already an

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issue for like small, not small landlord issues,

right? Like they're not already behind in responding

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to tenant complaints, but then they add new

laws, but don't add any new bylaw officers

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or training. It's just, it's on paper only.

Yeah, a hundred percent. mean, I would go

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as far as to call it legalized and institutionalized

corruption, right? Like people's ideologies

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from the moment that they're trained before

they even step into the office is corroded.

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and built around ideas of free markets and

capital over the lives of human beings, this

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constant prioritization of property and profits

over people. And so there's sort of an institutional

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refusal to implement any of this stuff because

from a baseline, they believe it's all bad.

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They can only do bad. And you're right, like

not having the space to celebrate hurt the

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union. We spent over a year, four years doing

this sort of stuff. And the result was we

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shrunk. We mobilized at each time hundreds

of people to come out to City Hall and total

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probably thousands of people to come out and

speak at City Hall motions. got things passed,

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but I mean the reality on the ground is things

are still bad. You know, they're worse than

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they've ever been. We maybe have like a municipally

mandated buyout system, which just helps facilitate

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displacement rather than stop it. But you know,

I think we all had to take a second and really

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reevaluate what we were doing. And that sort

of led to the creation of the basis of unity,

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which is largely based on our experience. Like

reading that document, it's mostly a history

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of the union's struggles. And so our approach

now to electoral politics is, I mean, I think

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still evolving and complicated. We try to promote

a diversity of tactics within the union, but

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we have hard lines. I think one of them is

that we don't do lobbying work. and we don't

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do policy advocacy, but within the scope of

a actual campaign that is focused on direct

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action, if the tenants want to do this rather

than the union at large voting to do this,

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we treat this as an opportunity for people

to learn. Tenants have the autonomy and the

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ability to self-govern the types of actions

that they learn. We will inform them about

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our experience and what we believe is likely

to happen. But if tenants want to do it, we're

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not going to totally stop them. As long as they're

not, you know, signing the union's name onto

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some sort of support for a candidate or something

like this, which is also a big no-no. We don't

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support parties and we don't support candidates.

This is all in the process of people learning.

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I think what we've realized is that it's important

not to lie to people and to set people's expectations

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correctly so that when they do go to the MLA's

office, like has happened in Park Beach, the

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campaign of SORA was referring to, and the MLA

basically tells them to be thankful for the

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work that they've already done and to piss off.

they feel like they know what they can do next.

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Well, this person doesn't care about us. We're

not going to give our power away to them. What's

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our next move? How do we keep confronting the

landlord? I think I would like to add to that

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as a newer member of the union, as a newer organizer,

this is really interesting because I think

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that is one of the takeaways for me has been

the importance of education and also the context

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here. Internally, for newer organizers, who

might not have been around for those initial

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years, through that painful learning curve

there. We have a way to hopefully learn without

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going through all the same pain. But sometimes

it is hard because as Ben said, it's a colonial

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state that is built on the idea of ownership

of corporations and extraction of wealth

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from the working class. And that means that

each one of us is also kind of like, I am

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entering this based with the same ideas of,

shouldn't politicians help? Shouldn't city

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council care about this? And it's really interesting,

I think, as an organizer, as a new member,

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as an active member in the union to go through

this learning experience. But it's also really

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helpful because it is also what happens in,

I think, each new struggle with the tenants.

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And this fine line of kind of like people,

like it isn't, we as a union are kind of like

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firmly on the back, kind of like autonomy is

important to the union. And that means even,

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know, tenants can make the choice to go through

painful learning experiences. That happens

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on so many levels, you know, it's just like

even thinking of a political revolution, like

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you don't want to have to get to the point where

it's so bad that people realize there's no

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other choice. Like, couldn't we just get where

we need to be politically without getting

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into the dire circumstances that people usually

have to live under in order to, feel oppression,

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know where it's coming from and move together

on it. Like if we could just fast forward through

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a few steps. But you know, when you're trying

to, I mean, not trying to, but naturally politicizing

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people. Yeah, there has to be sometimes baby

steps or it's like a canon event. I went in

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and out of the NDP, you know, in the same way

as you folks learned your lesson. I probably

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took the same amount of time learning my lesson.

And I feel like I can warn people away as best

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I can or explain exactly how it works. So if

you want to go in, you're at least a little

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bit more well equipped to do it. And I won't

say I told you so. I will still be here to

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hug you when you come out and we will move

forward at that point together. yeah, some

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people just need to take those steps. They have

to experience those canon events to be radicalized

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to use their language, right? And yeah, so that's

when support systems are important or having

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a veteran there going, okay, you know, I will

also answer a few of your questions to help

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you, but you know, with this warning that please

don't waste too much energy there, you know,

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and brace yourself. A hundred percent. We've

had this sort of experience of trying to get

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The sort of, I guess, struggle of trying to

figure out how people learn is core to, I think,

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the experience of the union. And we've been,

you know, I think going through multiple rounds

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of trying to figure this out. for me, I think

what I've learned most is that, you know, for

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better or for worse, greatest teacher is struggle.

People learn in campaigns, whether it's their

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own building that's going through a fight or

it's, you know, a new organizer from another

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building who is, you know, learning. by supporting

these tenants who are going through their own

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building site. The system just lays itself bare,

you know? The contradictions become extremely

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clear. An important check on the union to make

sure that we don't go this way too much of

375

00:35:49,418 --> 00:35:56,640

every single time new members join the union,

they're pulling us back towards trying to

376

00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,572

do electoral work or something like this, is

we are grounding the ability to do this type

377

00:36:02,572 --> 00:36:07,786

of... of work to maybe go have a conversation

with a politician in building struggles. It

378

00:36:07,786 --> 00:36:11,799

has to be out of an organizing campaign. It

can't just be like a group of members who are

379

00:36:11,799 --> 00:36:16,193

completely detached from the struggle and the

work on the ground, the actual organizing,

380

00:36:16,393 --> 00:36:21,087

who just go out and say, we're going to now

spend all of our time mobilizing as many people

381

00:36:21,087 --> 00:36:28,685

across the city to write letters asking for

a minor tweak to a policy. I think helps

382

00:36:28,685 --> 00:36:34,247

keep the union focused on direct action and

on a revolutionary trajectory. But we still

383

00:36:34,247 --> 00:36:39,304

have a lot of work to do on this. Like it's

not working perfectly. You know, there is struggle

384

00:36:39,304 --> 00:36:43,877

within the union. And I think one thing that

we learned this year, every year we do like

385

00:36:43,877 --> 00:36:49,163

a visioning where everyone from across the union

comes together to what we call name the moment,

386

00:36:49,163 --> 00:36:53,435

something like a tradition we got from Los Angeles

Tenants Union, and then talk about how we want

387

00:36:53,435 --> 00:36:57,724

to move forward in the moment that we're in.

And something that I think was named was that

388

00:36:57,724 --> 00:37:02,568

we need to have more orientation across the

union. When people come in, there needs to

389

00:37:02,568 --> 00:37:08,724

be something like a tank, the Oakland tenants

union. have cohorts when they join, they do

390

00:37:08,724 --> 00:37:12,427

activities together. They get to know each other.

People build a sense of community and connection

391

00:37:12,427 --> 00:37:17,602

from the get-go. And they're also oriented a

little bit towards the union's ideology. Um,

392

00:37:17,602 --> 00:37:22,182

how we view the world, the kinds of work we

do, the kinds of work we don't. All that to

393

00:37:22,182 --> 00:37:27,163

say that it also can change. are democratic

mechanisms. The union is based in direct democracy.

394

00:37:27,163 --> 00:37:31,044

If people want to change the way we do stuff,

you can do that at a general members meeting.

395

00:37:31,044 --> 00:37:35,926

You know, there needs to be some level, some

additional level of education that's happening,

396

00:37:36,102 --> 00:37:41,947

I think from the get go that everyone has identified

as a need. Oh my God, that would fucking horrify

397

00:37:41,947 --> 00:37:48,649

me if there were a group of tenants who decided

they would not not only spend their energy

398

00:37:48,729 --> 00:37:55,788

on electoral politics in this moment. but in

organizing around one of your AGMs to make

399

00:37:55,788 --> 00:38:02,003

you also spend your energy. I think like I

would like to talk to those people if there's

400

00:38:02,003 --> 00:38:07,347

anybody considering those moves. Just like a

few minutes, really kindly, like just please

401

00:38:07,448 --> 00:38:12,152

no. So like that's my worst case imaginable,

you know? You want to go on the inside political

402

00:38:12,152 --> 00:38:16,906

parties and reshape them, I'm like go have at

it, but. Don't fucking go to a revolutionary

403

00:38:16,906 --> 00:38:22,741

type organization and try to water them down.

mean, we got, we got words then, you know,

404

00:38:22,741 --> 00:38:30,228

just maybe share this episode with them. Certainly.

think what we found more is it's less people

405

00:38:30,228 --> 00:38:34,723

in buildings that are doing that and more like

individual, more liberal minded activists who

406

00:38:34,723 --> 00:38:38,356

will join the union and then try to pull it

into a new direction. The buildings I think

407

00:38:38,356 --> 00:38:42,752

learn from their own experiences more than.

these sort of ideologues who come in with an

408

00:38:42,752 --> 00:38:47,075

idea of how change happens. I think this is

really important because this truly isn't

409

00:38:47,075 --> 00:38:52,129

just about ideology. This truly isn't just about

the revolution. It's just the real experience

410

00:38:52,129 --> 00:38:59,145

that we help more tenants, we focus on direct

action and do not talk to politicians. It's

411

00:38:59,145 --> 00:39:04,249

just pure pragmatics. That's where you get

a lot of burnout. Like you talked about shrinking

412

00:39:04,249 --> 00:39:09,654

and if you don't have victories, obviously

that's one thing. But people can even go stretch

413

00:39:09,654 --> 00:39:15,201

stretches without victories and still feel

like they're building towards something. But

414

00:39:15,201 --> 00:39:21,583

those campaigns are just so uninspiring. You

you're begging. It goes back to that one point

415

00:39:21,583 --> 00:39:27,365

in the basis of unity and, you know, we talk

about it on blueprints is that, you know, you're

416

00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:33,196

seizing power from below. You're not begging

for scraps. You know, you're not asking, pleading

417

00:39:33,196 --> 00:39:41,905

this presumption that people who are city councillors

or MLAs or MPs don't know, don't know that

418

00:39:41,905 --> 00:39:47,596

there's a housing crisis. They don't know that,

you know, folks are being evicted without

419

00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:54,878

any sort of resolution. And they know, they

know that the planet is burning. They know

420

00:39:54,878 --> 00:40:00,310

all these issues. It's even more, right? I think

maybe like a quick tie into a new campaign

421

00:40:00,310 --> 00:40:04,281

that we are currently starting. It's also very

interesting. we are now currently starting

422

00:40:04,281 --> 00:40:14,091

to, hopefully going to be launching a UBC chapter.

So the University, the Endowment Lands, a

423

00:40:14,091 --> 00:40:22,635

lot of people are not aware but UBC lives in

this quite awful, shocking space where the

424

00:40:22,635 --> 00:40:28,278

little protection that some of the tenants in

BC are enjoying do not exist on UBC because

425

00:40:28,278 --> 00:40:34,307

on Endowment Lands several years ago, the

think the University Neighborhood Association

426

00:40:34,307 --> 00:40:41,270

in a vote decided to not abide by the RTA and

just roll out their own framework. So housing,

427

00:40:41,290 --> 00:40:47,012

all the student housing, and it's not only

student housing, is basically not regulated.

428

00:40:47,132 --> 00:40:55,446

What? And currently a group of students, families,

staff, basically tenants on campus are getting

429

00:40:55,446 --> 00:41:00,558

together and starting to fight back because

UBC has been, I think the numbers are actually

430

00:41:01,614 --> 00:41:08,119

Two years ago, 7%, last year, 5%, and this year,

5 % again. Rent increases way above the provincial

431

00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:14,535

guidelines, which is insane. There's just an

entity that is basically not only providing

432

00:41:14,535 --> 00:41:19,429

the housing to these people on campus, but they're

often also their employers. They have control

433

00:41:19,429 --> 00:41:23,262

over the scholarships, which means they have

control over the immigration status. I've been

434

00:41:23,262 --> 00:41:28,108

basically talking about it as UBC is a feudal

lord. on the endowment lens. You don't even

435

00:41:28,108 --> 00:41:32,392

have politicians to give your power away to

because UBC is also essentially the government

436

00:41:32,392 --> 00:41:37,015

over there. They make the choices. So the

politicians, you can cower before them and

437

00:41:37,176 --> 00:41:41,909

still UBC is the one who decides how much your

rent increases, how much time they're going

438

00:41:41,909 --> 00:41:46,683

to give you on your eviction notice. They don't

abide by any of the law. so, yeah, I'm realizing

439

00:41:46,683 --> 00:41:51,207

it was when you said kind of like that they

know city council, these politicians, it's

440

00:41:51,207 --> 00:41:56,705

beyond that, right? UBC is a very clear example

of like not only are they aware of what's going

441

00:41:56,705 --> 00:42:00,766

on, they're the people who put it in place.

I think it's very important to kind of like

442

00:42:00,766 --> 00:42:06,908

be openly, we need to name the enemy. It's like

there are people in power who put the current

443

00:42:06,908 --> 00:42:13,310

system in place, who designed it the way it

is, or keeping it the way it is. I agree with

444

00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:17,897

you, it is absurd to then go there and pledge

and kind of like ask for help when actually,

445

00:42:17,897 --> 00:42:22,658

yeah, these people put it, designed it that

way. Like we are in this place because of that.

446

00:42:22,778 --> 00:42:26,638

Yeah, that's why I use the quotations when I

say housing crisis, not because I don't believe

447

00:42:26,638 --> 00:42:32,418

we have a problem, but it's just designed that

way. And so even, yeah, your decision to not

448

00:42:32,418 --> 00:42:37,618

really involve yourself in policy discussions,

like even the idea of like, okay, what could

449

00:42:37,618 --> 00:42:42,658

we convince or make part of the next campaign?

You know, I mean, political campaign or electoral,

450

00:42:43,058 --> 00:42:48,946

get it on as a campaign issue, voting issue.

And it's just like that, are just, you you

451

00:42:48,946 --> 00:42:52,909

spend a lot of energy there and it's like tiny

little band-aids. Or like you said earlier,

452

00:42:52,909 --> 00:42:58,203

like you'll have a great idea, great policy

item that might actually have some impact,

453

00:42:58,464 --> 00:43:02,987

but it doesn't end up that way. You know, on

the, the, when it gets spit out the other end,

454

00:43:02,987 --> 00:43:07,881

whatever institution it goes through it and

they're all landlords. And, know, UBC being

455

00:43:07,881 --> 00:43:14,957

the feudal example, that is a great comparison.

A lot of your counselors are landlords or

456

00:43:14,997 --> 00:43:19,903

like you mentioned earlier, completely funded

by developers. And then the city itself, like

457

00:43:19,903 --> 00:43:25,198

in Ontario, I'm not sure if it's the same where

you folks are, like our municipalities can't

458

00:43:25,198 --> 00:43:30,773

run a deficit. Like you have to balance your

budget. And the way that they're structured

459

00:43:30,773 --> 00:43:37,278

is they're financially dependent on developer

fees and the money that comes in from letting

460

00:43:37,278 --> 00:43:42,533

them develop any which way they want to. Right.

And they the threats are they'll just stop

461

00:43:42,533 --> 00:43:48,043

building and they do that. So there's like so

many layers. So yeah, I was kind of being generous

462

00:43:48,043 --> 00:43:51,396

when I was like, oh, they know, and they just

don't do the right thing. Like they are actively

463

00:43:51,396 --> 00:43:56,595

contributing to the situation and then sitting

with people face to face, like groups of 10

464

00:43:56,595 --> 00:44:02,565

and just like lying to them and making promises

they probably never intend to keep. And yeah,

465

00:44:02,565 --> 00:44:05,757

you don't want to watch comrades go through

that over and over again. I feel you there,

466

00:44:05,757 --> 00:44:11,492

man. When you say like, we can't keep, we'll

give you space to do that, but please, you

467

00:44:11,492 --> 00:44:17,186

know, let's, yeah, I feel that. completely,

but UBC students are so vulnerable when it

468

00:44:17,186 --> 00:44:21,586

comes to housing to think they don't have regulations

there. Can you help me understand that a little

469

00:44:21,586 --> 00:44:25,806

bit more? I know we were supposed to do that

briefly, but I'm kind of confused. Who voted

470

00:44:25,806 --> 00:44:31,906

to not regulate the housing, the landlords?

I think as far as I understand, it's called

471

00:44:31,906 --> 00:44:37,946

the UNA. It's the University Neighborhood Association.

This is another learning experience, I think,

472

00:44:37,946 --> 00:44:43,576

for the union. The union has been interested

in organizing campuses for a while. But there's

473

00:44:43,576 --> 00:44:50,730

inherent challenges because also the way Vancouver

is designed with, we have UBC, SFU, the two

474

00:44:50,730 --> 00:44:55,142

bigger universities at the two far ends. I think

it's basically 40 kilometers between the two

475

00:44:55,142 --> 00:45:00,454

campuses. And both of them are in places that

are really remote. And it's quite a challenge

476

00:45:00,454 --> 00:45:04,866

for a union that is so kind of like rooted

in neighborhood organizing, in place-based

477

00:45:04,866 --> 00:45:09,666

organizing to then try to talk to students who

might be commuters. who are living in precarious

478

00:45:09,666 --> 00:45:13,428

situations. they're in housing and residence,

they might actually be intending to leave after

479

00:45:13,428 --> 00:45:19,291

the first year. Yeah, they're not really invested

in that as like a community sometimes, right?

480

00:45:20,031 --> 00:45:24,702

And we are now increasingly facing the situation

that the issues are just so rampant that we

481

00:45:24,702 --> 00:45:29,175

need to do something about it. The tenants

are coming together to do something about this

482

00:45:29,435 --> 00:45:33,787

and we are slowly learning. So your question

is just inherently tied into this kind of

483

00:45:33,787 --> 00:45:39,258

like beast of UBC governance and its history.

which is obviously also tied into the colonial

484

00:45:39,258 --> 00:45:48,297

system in a very deep, deep, and kind of like

defining way. And the UNA is I think basically

485

00:45:48,477 --> 00:45:54,803

the land owners association. The UNA is the

neighborhood association that is made up of

486

00:45:54,803 --> 00:46:01,619

those people who bought. Yeah, the landlords,

right? Landlords and they basically vote. They

487

00:46:01,619 --> 00:46:08,215

get to vote. on the kind of public facilities

they built because these places are also just

488

00:46:08,316 --> 00:46:14,557

communities. Families live there, UBC staff,

they're students. There's real life and community

489

00:46:14,557 --> 00:46:19,118

going on, but the people making the decisions

are the landlords. And the UNA is extremely

490

00:46:19,118 --> 00:46:26,200

powerful and to my understanding, I think it

was 20 years ago, so not quite recently, they

491

00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:33,927

had a major vote and apparently had the power

to decide not to abide by provincial tenancy

492

00:46:33,927 --> 00:46:38,781

law. It must be part of a provincial act or

something that was granted, like some autonomy

493

00:46:38,781 --> 00:46:43,895

that was granted to them. But I think, you know,

we're learning about this now as we're dealing.

494

00:46:43,895 --> 00:46:48,408

Some fucking private members bill that nobody

really paid attention to maybe at one point,

495

00:46:48,408 --> 00:46:52,922

you know, and it didn't even make sense. Like,

what? And then you understand the implications

496

00:46:52,922 --> 00:46:57,915

of it after the gobbledygook gets filtered through

to something in real life. And you're like,

497

00:46:57,915 --> 00:47:03,686

shit. What? You know, like how did that get

through city council? But then again, you know,

498

00:47:03,686 --> 00:47:09,026

we already answered how that got through city

council, right? Or provincial legislature.

499

00:47:09,486 --> 00:47:14,985

Well, same thing. You're probably right. Yeah.

Yeah. Also just to kind of like throw out a

500

00:47:14,985 --> 00:47:22,586

number, UBC's development arm, I think it's

just the development arm, has an endowment

501

00:47:22,586 --> 00:47:31,578

of $2 billion. UBC is also a massive developer.

That's so ugly. The last episode we aired was

502

00:47:31,578 --> 00:47:39,012

just about how university administrators colluded

with the province in Alberta mostly, but also

503

00:47:39,012 --> 00:47:45,956

all over the place to violently evict student

encampments. So I already had a bone to pick

504

00:47:45,956 --> 00:47:53,051

with university administrators, but this, I

wonder how many universities have similar situations

505

00:47:53,051 --> 00:48:02,193

like that. Maybe not. exactly having no regulations,

but just student housing. The issues inherent

506

00:48:02,193 --> 00:48:09,087

with that, it's almost similar to trying to

organize precarious workers or commuting workers.

507

00:48:09,087 --> 00:48:13,891

Like there's such high turnover as well, right?

Like every four, you know, you don't even have

508

00:48:13,891 --> 00:48:17,814

the one tenant to fight with you all that long

because they do move on for the most part.

509

00:48:17,814 --> 00:48:23,658

But what a shit situation. Like who's going

to take the onus on to fix that? And the answer

510

00:48:23,658 --> 00:48:29,391

is You know, you will, you know, like a tenants

union that realizes perhaps the value in fighting

511

00:48:29,391 --> 00:48:34,813

for neighborhoods that they don't live in because

there's difficulties in organizing that neighborhood,

512

00:48:34,813 --> 00:48:40,214

right? Like if folks can lend a hand on that

UBC campaign, lend some resources and people

513

00:48:40,214 --> 00:48:46,816

power and expertise, you know, but yeah, I can

understand why that is a bit of a hurdle,

514

00:48:46,816 --> 00:48:51,834

albeit an important one to get over. does seem

like there is a real appetite amongst a lot

515

00:48:51,834 --> 00:48:57,710

of these people to to do something. There was

already a campaign. think part of the reason

516

00:48:57,710 --> 00:49:01,873

why a lot of people are coming to the Union

now to try and fight this is that ASURA was

517

00:49:01,873 --> 00:49:07,356

involved in a campaign where the Union was supporting,

along with some migrant justice groups. We

518

00:49:07,356 --> 00:49:12,729

got together to support an Indigenous mother

who UBC was trying to evict in her family.

519

00:49:12,729 --> 00:49:19,993

And we won. And I think a lot of people saw

that moment as a sort of crack in the shell

520

00:49:19,993 --> 00:49:25,934

of UBC's totality. the idea that they are able

to choose everything that happens on campus

521

00:49:25,934 --> 00:49:29,854

and we have no power at all because they're

so big, they're so futile in their sort of

522

00:49:29,854 --> 00:49:36,014

setup. But you know, with just a campaign put

together, like a letter writing campaign, essentially

523

00:49:36,014 --> 00:49:39,574

what we call an emails app. Was it an emails

app or a phones app? It was both. It was an

524

00:49:39,574 --> 00:49:46,134

emails app, a phones app, but also honestly

a massive shout out here to MSU, which is Migrant

525

00:49:46,134 --> 00:49:51,574

Students United. Some amazing organizers there

took over and takeaways are the same ones over

526

00:49:51,574 --> 00:49:58,274

and over again. What secures us the wins is

direct action. Yeah, so these MSU folks helped

527

00:49:58,274 --> 00:50:04,309

the tenant and marched into UBC housing's office

and demanded to talk to the president to the

528

00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:09,382

person in charge and Long story short that

it got us the win. So the tenant is still there

529

00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:13,395

So, you know this kind of stuff it works. It

really really works It's what we see over and

530

00:50:13,395 --> 00:50:18,719

over whether we're fighting for better conditions

inside of buildings to stop evictions to stop

531

00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:23,531

demolitions We get real wins when tenants stick

together and they act directly against the

532

00:50:23,531 --> 00:50:29,625

landlord. Victories are contagious. you know,

whatever bits of that you can pull out and

533

00:50:29,625 --> 00:50:35,589

celebrate and learn from, mean, absolute value

for more than just the people that were directly

534

00:50:35,889 --> 00:50:42,334

involved. Before we wrap up, though, I did

and I don't see it in my notes, but I do remember

535

00:50:42,334 --> 00:50:51,275

reading it and wanting to give you folks credit

for including a very broad definition of what

536

00:50:51,275 --> 00:50:57,497

a tenant is. I believe it's defined by anybody

who doesn't have control over their housing.

537

00:50:57,497 --> 00:51:05,278

And obviously that includes folks who have

no housing at all or very precarious housing.

538

00:51:05,419 --> 00:51:11,881

And I think it's important that you make that

distinction obviously and include those fights

539

00:51:11,881 --> 00:51:19,653

in your fights. But it's, it brings up the

kind of that same troubling question with

540

00:51:19,653 --> 00:51:27,250

calling ourselves the working class and then

it just by vocabulary excluding people who

541

00:51:27,250 --> 00:51:33,666

don't work. So it's important when we talk about

tenants to understand it more broadly than

542

00:51:33,666 --> 00:51:39,706

just the people who are paying rent, you know,

on a consistent basis. that it is more than

543

00:51:39,706 --> 00:51:43,426

that, but as long as you do treat it that way.

Because when we talk about the working class,

544

00:51:43,426 --> 00:51:49,706

we say, oh, it includes everybody, right? It

includes children, people who can't work, disabled

545

00:51:49,706 --> 00:51:56,026

folks, but sometimes we don't actually include

them in our fights and demands. And so then

546

00:51:56,026 --> 00:52:00,966

the working class actually starts to become

looking like actually it just means the working

547

00:52:00,966 --> 00:52:08,263

class. So are you able to do meaningful organizing

towards maybe campaigns that are focused on

548

00:52:08,803 --> 00:52:15,625

unhoused community members? This is a good question.

mean, to maybe as a first bit of homage, know,

549

00:52:15,645 --> 00:52:21,976

this sort of understanding of the tenant class

as being anyone who doesn't have control over

550

00:52:21,976 --> 00:52:28,188

their housing, I think comes both from, you

know, learnings from Indigenous elders inside

551

00:52:28,188 --> 00:52:34,916

of the movement, as well as our comrades down

south in the Los Angeles Tenants Union who

552

00:52:34,916 --> 00:52:41,858

I brought up. previously already, you know,

they've really been impactful on our development.

553

00:52:41,858 --> 00:52:47,821

Some of their members like Don't, were up here

for our founding convention as well and helped

554

00:52:47,821 --> 00:52:52,474

us get set up. So really this cross border

solidarity was built in from the beginning

555

00:52:52,474 --> 00:52:58,207

and they brought up these sort of conceptions

of the tenant class needing to go beyond just

556

00:52:58,207 --> 00:53:03,526

people who are in that sort of traditional

understanding of our rent relationship. to

557

00:53:03,526 --> 00:53:09,990

those who are, let's say, being evicted from

their tents on provincial parkland. In these

558

00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:13,972

situations, there's no distinction between a

private landlord and the state who happens

559

00:53:13,972 --> 00:53:20,276

to be the landlord and is governing people's

individual lives on a day-to-day basis. The

560

00:53:20,276 --> 00:53:27,180

union has been involved in struggles to stop,

know, decantments and things like this. part

561

00:53:27,180 --> 00:53:33,393

of a number of different coalitions. with

other community groups as well. There's one

562

00:53:33,393 --> 00:53:40,319

coalition called Stop the Sweeps that the union

was a founding coalition partner in. That

563

00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:47,355

coalition has sort of gone on to become its

own organization in some ways, but a lot of

564

00:53:47,355 --> 00:53:53,330

the core members came from the VTU and still

identify as members of the union as well.

565

00:53:53,912 --> 00:53:59,233

but have more autonomy than just being subject

to its coalition partners desires, which we

566

00:53:59,233 --> 00:54:09,626

actually really prefer. And I think during

a number of different fights, union members

567

00:54:09,626 --> 00:54:15,968

are the ones on the ground often trying to

support people in their fight against the

568

00:54:15,968 --> 00:54:23,342

cops, the enforcement arm of these provincial

landlords essentially. taking the opportunities

569

00:54:23,342 --> 00:54:27,525

also to try and educate the membership about

how our fights are tied together. There actually

570

00:54:27,525 --> 00:54:32,975

is no distinction. I mean, there's the clear

material distinction of whether or not you

571

00:54:32,975 --> 00:54:39,171

are housed or not, but the class is the same.

Every tenant that we organize in a building

572

00:54:39,171 --> 00:54:44,834

is one rent check away from being on the street,

but the enemy remains the same. It's still,

573

00:54:44,834 --> 00:54:50,277

in the larger sense, the system of private

property in the capitalist mode of production.

574

00:54:50,277 --> 00:54:59,727

I think in the union, part of the way that

we've grown to understand also how we expand

575

00:54:59,727 --> 00:55:05,542

these definitions of who we're organizing the

working class or some other group is by

576

00:55:05,542 --> 00:55:11,778

trying to frame the work we do around the type

of labor that we're organizing. In the case

577

00:55:11,778 --> 00:55:16,812

of labor unions, they're often organizing productive

labor. In the case of tenant unions, our task

578

00:55:16,812 --> 00:55:21,560

is to organize reproductive labor. the people

who are keeping the home and the community

579

00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:26,604

functioning. And this includes both housed

and unhoused members of the community who do

580

00:55:26,604 --> 00:55:30,388

work every single day to make sure that the

streets are clean, to make sure that people

581

00:55:30,388 --> 00:55:36,352

are fed and the kids are taken care of. People

who are typically excluded for systemic reasons

582

00:55:36,352 --> 00:55:43,318

from the labor movement, for example. Migrant

workers who maybe don't have status or women

583

00:55:43,318 --> 00:55:49,208

who are raising the children in the home whose

labor is invaluable whatsoever. or unhoused

584

00:55:49,208 --> 00:55:54,650

people, again, who are doing street cleaning

programs, like the work that happens at Van

585

00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:59,382

Do, the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users,

who are part of coalition work that we do also

586

00:55:59,382 --> 00:56:06,055

towards the ends of, yeah, housing everyone

and also drug user liberation. I would say

587

00:56:06,055 --> 00:56:11,927

that the biggest fights that we've been involved

in or that members have been involved in,

588

00:56:11,927 --> 00:56:16,809

but I would like to give the total credit

to Stop the Sweeps, the group that we're a

589

00:56:16,809 --> 00:56:22,868

part of. is most recently the decantment fight

for the Hastings tent city, which happened

590

00:56:22,868 --> 00:56:26,791

a couple of years ago. But I think people learned

a lot through that experience, which ultimately,

591

00:56:26,791 --> 00:56:33,357

unfortunately, resulted in a loss where the

city came down with like an unbelievable amount

592

00:56:33,357 --> 00:56:40,402

of police force in order to sweep people off

the street. But it was an extremely pivotal

593

00:56:40,402 --> 00:56:45,206

and radicalizing moment for a lot of people

in the city who sort of saw a state power laid

594

00:56:45,206 --> 00:56:52,270

bare, the power of private property really laid

bare. And I think both of our organizations,

595

00:56:52,270 --> 00:56:57,343

Stop the Sweeps and the VTU have only grown

since those moments and want to keep fighting

596

00:56:57,343 --> 00:57:02,515

for liberation for all of us. Because if it's

not all of us, it's none of us. A lot of our

597

00:57:02,515 --> 00:57:10,149

episodes have these great examples of authorities

really clenching their fists and cracking

598

00:57:10,149 --> 00:57:17,890

down and it only... seems to mobilize folks.

mean, there blows. It's not to minimize those

599

00:57:17,890 --> 00:57:24,463

losses. like, those are real material losses

for people too. But it does just galvanize

600

00:57:24,463 --> 00:57:32,146

people a lot more than I think they anticipate.

And they end up actually being the root causes

601

00:57:32,146 --> 00:57:37,929

for a lot of folks' work out. Because Toronto

experienced a very similar moment. And I feel

602

00:57:37,929 --> 00:57:44,373

like that was like two or three years ago. a

particularly violent encampment eviction that,

603

00:57:45,214 --> 00:57:50,678

you know, I'm not sure anybody has tried to

defend one in that same way since because

604

00:57:50,678 --> 00:57:58,675

it was so traumatizing and unsuccessful in that

way. But surely I've seen a spike and we've

605

00:57:58,675 --> 00:58:06,221

had, we have Voices for the Unhoused here

in Toronto, which is a type of union for unhoused

606

00:58:06,221 --> 00:58:13,623

people or people within the shelter system.

Yeah, hearing how they reshaped or grew from

607

00:58:13,623 --> 00:58:20,036

what was meant to be a devastating blow, right?

It was designed to, because sometimes they're

608

00:58:20,036 --> 00:58:24,448

not even about clearing the park, right? It's

about sending a message to the entire community

609

00:58:24,448 --> 00:58:33,511

as well. Those sweeps. Totally. Yeah. I mean,

we've seen, we've seen now, uh, stop the sweeps,

610

00:58:33,832 --> 00:58:40,536

organizations crop up across all of BC. Previously

it was just in Vancouver and since then, members

611

00:58:40,536 --> 00:58:45,779

from South Pacific have been going to Kelowna,

Nanaimo, to all these different places to work

612

00:58:45,779 --> 00:58:49,972

with people who are establishing mutual aid

networks, support networks, organizing networks

613

00:58:50,212 --> 00:58:57,446

in order to defend these tense cities. So it

has led to growth. And like you said, these

614

00:58:57,446 --> 00:59:03,259

moments of increased repression are dialectical.

They also produce increased resistance. And

615

00:59:03,259 --> 00:59:08,784

I think that's what makes this time that we're

all in so exciting. It's scary. You know,

616

00:59:08,784 --> 00:59:15,257

we're facing real possible fascist forces.

And at the same time, a lot of people are sort

617

00:59:15,257 --> 00:59:18,928

of waking up to the reality and getting involved

in the struggle. And the more of us that are

618

00:59:18,928 --> 00:59:23,630

closer together, the more tenants and house

people see their struggles as one, the better

619

00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:28,563

chance we have at beating the next tent city

eviction, the better chance we have at winning

620

00:59:28,563 --> 00:59:34,395

the next rent strike or holding down the next

squad. These are the ways is when we work

621

00:59:34,395 --> 00:59:39,390

together and there's more of us in this space.

Asura, do you have any kind of parting words

622

00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:43,143

you want to leave the audience with? Yes, just

very similarly. I'm really excited to hear

623

00:59:43,143 --> 00:59:48,917

that, you even you saying that you kind of

like are feeling somewhat of a moment for

624

00:59:48,917 --> 00:59:54,392

tenant organizing. It's kind of nice to hear

that also this, I think I'm relatively new,

625

00:59:54,392 --> 01:00:00,237

so I feel kind of like not sure about the larger

context, but I basically agree. think what

626

01:00:00,397 --> 01:00:06,252

is the main thing for me is like it is giving

me personally a lot of hope. And I think that

627

01:00:06,252 --> 01:00:12,914

is. It's a very beautiful, important thing

to have something to hold onto that also provides

628

01:00:12,914 --> 01:00:17,834

hope in a very real way. I'm not going to try

to sit here and just be kind of like, we're

629

01:00:17,834 --> 01:00:24,514

just talking about, you know, a vision, an idea.

No, this is like a real kind of like, this

630

01:00:24,514 --> 01:00:29,174

work is meant to be kind of like leading us

to a different place to change. That's why

631

01:00:29,174 --> 01:00:34,575

I really am excited about also some of these

conversations with you. conversations with

632

01:00:34,596 --> 01:00:39,910

our comrades. I think this was set up initially

through a conversation with, I think, the

633

01:00:39,910 --> 01:00:45,114

folks in Ottawa that you had. And seeing these

kind of collaborations that, you know, it's

634

01:00:45,114 --> 01:00:49,708

like in the neighborhood, in the city, we are

talking across province, we're talking across

635

01:00:49,708 --> 01:00:56,814

Canada, we're crossing borders. And it's beautiful.

It absolutely is beautiful. I talk a lot to

636

01:00:56,814 --> 01:01:03,781

organizers, activists, we talk about a lot of

issues, but I, the The feeling I get from leaving

637

01:01:03,781 --> 01:01:10,135

tenant union discussions and hearing about

the growth and victories and even hearing about

638

01:01:10,135 --> 01:01:15,530

the barriers, right? Cause that's learning being

done. I get like, I feel like a buzz because

639

01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:20,924

like, know, the whole purpose of what I do is

right, is to give people hope in that there's

640

01:01:20,924 --> 01:01:25,698

other actions out there other than the ballot

box, right? That your fate is not in the hand

641

01:01:25,698 --> 01:01:32,209

of politicians, it's in your hands, right? And

I think tenant organizing is one of those spaces

642

01:01:32,209 --> 01:01:38,165

and that they're growing in such a time that

they won't mimic colonial institutions. We

643

01:01:38,165 --> 01:01:42,098

know better than that now, right? Where labor

unions do, our political parties do for the

644

01:01:42,098 --> 01:01:48,854

most part, right? But these are new and they're

growing in such ways that really do give us

645

01:01:48,854 --> 01:01:54,990

examples of what it might look like after we're

done all of this, right? And it gives us an

646

01:01:54,990 --> 01:02:00,663

idea of. you know, even if we're a voting bloc,

you know, if you can just try to imagine, let's

647

01:02:00,663 --> 01:02:05,896

say you're not at revolution yet, all right?

But could you imagine 80 % of people in a neighborhood,

648

01:02:06,356 --> 01:02:11,499

the power, like let's say it does rest on the

ballot box for you, like just imagine harnessing

649

01:02:11,499 --> 01:02:16,061

that level of power, right? And yes, it's not

just a dream. You are like, it's a dream to

650

01:02:16,061 --> 01:02:20,543

be in every building. Like you guys are really

living that work, right? Well, you'll get there.

651

01:02:20,644 --> 01:02:25,076

And I think very shortly, because as things

get worse, people are going to start to look,

652

01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:30,432

for solutions that mean something and the right

is not offering that. And that kind of like

653

01:02:30,432 --> 01:02:37,546

angry outlet and is not going to give them

victories or make them feel good in the same

654

01:02:37,546 --> 01:02:42,438

way that connecting with their community members,

you block by block, door by door, whatnot,

655

01:02:42,818 --> 01:02:46,930

the way that that feels, right? You naturally

come together like that, then you naturally

656

01:02:46,930 --> 01:02:51,372

feed into these kinds of ideas. It just kind

of, it happens, right? Especially if you...

657

01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,492

hold on to one another and support one another

and it's not like this desperate grasping at

658

01:02:55,492 --> 01:03:00,614

one another. It's stronger than that. So like

I totally appreciate the work that you folks

659

01:03:00,614 --> 01:03:06,507

are doing. That's hard work and spending time

in the studio explaining it to us all. I really

660

01:03:06,507 --> 01:03:12,260

appreciate it because my guess is most people

listening right now are tenants and not every

661

01:03:12,260 --> 01:03:19,111

one of them is in a tenant union yet, right?

But they'll get there. They'll get there.

662

01:03:19,111 --> 01:03:26,969

So thank you very much, Ben and Asura. And

shout out to your entire tenant union. I would

663

01:03:26,969 --> 01:03:30,953

love to hear more about the migrant students

union too. So maybe you folks can like pass

664

01:03:30,953 --> 01:03:34,296

it. This is how I get my interviews, right?

Like you guys start bragging about all these

665

01:03:34,296 --> 01:03:38,560

great people you work with. And then it's like,

I got to talk to them too. If they've got lessons,

666

01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:43,850

we need to know what they are. Right. So, you

know, for folks listening. you will find ways

667

01:03:43,850 --> 01:03:49,010

to contact these folks and learn more about

them in the show notes, including their, I

668

01:03:49,010 --> 01:03:54,730

mean, we didn't give it much justice. Their

basis of unity is really a good read. Honestly,

669

01:03:55,010 --> 01:03:59,250

it sounds like a boring document, like when

you're like, Oh, we'll learn about their structure

670

01:03:59,250 --> 01:04:04,510

and stuff like that. But I was, I was getting

a little bit giddy ready. You know, maybe that

671

01:04:04,510 --> 01:04:10,290

makes me a commie nerd. I don't know, but it

was fun and it was fun discussing it all with

672

01:04:10,290 --> 01:04:15,168

you. Thank you very much folks. Thank you, Jessa.

Thank you so much for having us. That is a

673

01:04:15,168 --> 01:04:20,390

wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption.

Thank you for joining us. Please share our

674

01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:25,755

content, and if you have the means, consider

becoming a patron. Not only does our support

675

01:04:25,755 --> 01:04:30,748

come from the progressive community, so does

our content. So reach out to us and let us

676

01:04:30,748 --> 01:04:35,641

know what or who we should be amplifying. So

until next time, keep disrupting.