I went out for a walk one night.

And, I got a call from my grandmother who lives 18 miles outside the nearest town.

And she's by herself.

And she was crying.

And I said, what's wrong with grandma?

She goes, I forgot to stop at the store when my buddy brought me home.

I'm hungry, I don't have anything to eat.

This is Transit Unplugged.

I'm Paul Comfort.

Excited today to be talking to two of my friends who are active in rural

transportation, which isn't a topic we talk about too often on the show.

And I have to give it to Eddie Van Stein, my friend from Steuben County

Mobility Management Director in upstate New York for suggesting the idea.

Eddie, thanks for the idea.

Absolutely.

Paul, great to be here.

Eddie is an up and coming leader in our industry and rural transit, and

we also have on the show Wendy Weedon.

Wendy is Deputy CEO and General Manager of Brazos Transit District in Texas.

Thanks for being with us.

I'm glad to be here.

Where in Texas are you located, Wendy?

So we're located in Bryan, Texas, which is Brazos County, and we

serve 21 counties throughout the state.

And tell us a little bit about your transit system,

like how many vehicles, how many drivers, that kind of stuff.

What do you, what services do you offer?

we started in 1974, we cover 21 counties, we have between 110

to 120 employees at all times, we have, um, fixed route service, demand response

service, paratransit, um, a circulator route, and we have around 80 vehicles.

And, we do have one area that just went from small urban to

large urban, but the rest of our entire service area is all rural.

And how long have you been around as an agency?

This next year will be our 50th year.

Congratulations.

Yeah.

That's exciting.

It is

very exciting.

All right.

Eddie, tell us about the system that you help oversee.

Which one, Paul?

We've got, we've got many.

We're very unique here in upstate New York.

Tell us about it.

Yeah.

So, First, before I start with that a little bit, this is

why, you're hearing the new, the new trend of the mobility management, kind

of, step in a little bit more to help my kind of situation in Upstate New York

where you have six different transit authorities in one county, all trying

to serve that county the best they can.

Obviously, without coordination, without collaboration, you can get a little

messed up very quickly, you know?

So, in comes Mobility Management, and what we do is we try to make sure that

all of the authorities in our county, in our general area, are being routed

and utilized to the best advantage.

So, for instance, we have the cities of Corning and Hornell.

Both of those are the hubs, main hubs, for our main bus services.

But we have a huge county, it's almost the size of Rhode Island.

We have huge, what's called, transportation deserts, where

those fixed bus routes do not go.

In come your Volunteer Driver Programs.

So we have a whole mix, Paul, of systems there we really have to juggle to make

sure our community is taken care of.

I think both of you may know, but I started my

career in rural transportation and still live in rural America.

Um, and a lot of the shows on a lot of our episodes on Transit Unplugged

over the last six years or seven years, we've focused on larger cities.

So it's nice to, once in a while take a step back and take a look

at what's happening in other areas of, uh, kind of other geographies.

So let's talk about rural transit itself just for a moment.

I recall back early in my career in the early 90s, we started a public bus system

here in my county called County Ride.

And I was, um, I was taken aback by how many people did not have a

car or were too elderly or disabled to, to drive one if they had one.

And they really were stuck in their house.

They couldn't get anywhere.

But our little bus coming through was their lifeline.

Does that ring a bell for you, Wendy?

It's every day here.

That is our life.

Every day.

for many of our passengers, we're the only face they get to see for days on end.

And so the role that rural transit plays in people's lives

may actually be even more significant than it is in urban areas where

there's lots of options for mobility.

You could actually walk somewhere like where I live now.

You can't walk to the grocery store.

You can't walk anywhere.

you know, like looking right out my window, I'm looking into a cornfield and,

uh, To get to somewhere, it's a 10 minute drive, and you couldn't walk in the cold

weather we're in today, so, Eddie, what's the role of transit in upstate New York?

Is it similar in rural areas that you serve?

You nailed it right on the head, exactly

what both of you were saying.

Just in a different aspect, we can't necessarily afford to lose our buses

off the fixed bus route services because of, number one, we, right now we can't

necessarily afford it, and number two, um, we don't have the manpower.

So, we've got to put our manpower where, you know , the main needs are.

Again, I'm going to repeat myself, in right now come our

volunteer driver programs.

If we didn't have our volunteer driver programs to go out and get the aging in

place, or your loved ones that are all by themselves and you've got brother

and sister across the county or the state or the country, they can't come

and visit you, you're absolutely right.

Those volunteer drivers might be the only person they see at all for a month.

So that itself, it's it's the same thing, but

it's Very, very, very, very crucial that we understand that if we don't

have these volunteer drivers, we're in trouble here in rural America.

Yeah, and the other thing I thought I remember back and I've

managed lots of different size systems.

I started out with a really small system in the rural area.

You know, with a dozen drivers and then at another parts of my career,

I've managed midsize agencies, but still in rural and suburban areas

where there may be 100 or 200 buses.

But I noticed that in the, uh, in, especially in.

Smaller size agencies as you guys operate, the need for the service,

specialized services, like getting people to dialysis, you know, is key, right?

This stuff is, is, uh, life, you know, they need it to stay alive as

well as just maybe the only person they see or the only way into town.

Wendy, tell us about the role that Brazos Transit District plays

in the lives of people in your multiple counties that you serve.

So, you're right.

Dialysis is a, it's one of the number one reasons that people

utilize our service on the regular.

usually three days a week, and that's consistent.

being public transit, we don't constitute what they can or cannot book trips for.

Right.

Dialysis is extremely important.

It's to keep them alive, literally.

But there's other aspects to people just going to the grocery store, going

to medical appointments and social gatherings and that those social

gatherings are sometimes just as important as those, medical appointments.

They need that.

They don't have any social interaction it just helps.

Their livelihood overall.

But yeah, you're right.

We have a lot of people who utilize our services, you know, their families might

not be able to transport them anymore.

They've transitioned to a mobility device of some sort and they don't have a way

to transport them or they don't have a way period or anyone to transport them.

We have a wide variety of people who use it for all types.

we have people who go to work, school.

Medical, grocery, social, it doesn't matter, and we struggle to shove

them all in there as much as we can.

Eddie, um, I know that you're working not only there in your

county, but, but working regionally and across the state of New York.

What are some of your big initiatives, locally, regionally, and even

nationally for rural mobility?

Yeah, sure, Paul.

So I'll start locally.

Wendy, I want to give you a little bit.

of an insight for what you just said, because I'm going

through the same exact thing.

I had, I got a call from one of the local senior centers, um,

last week, about the same issue.

I went down there and met with the director.

the issue is, right now, the funding streams out there, Don't allow for

the mental health funding for us to give them money to be able to get on

the bus or whatever to go and do that.

So it was very hard finding the necessities of.

Someone that just wanted to get out of their house because they're stuck

there all week to get a peace of mind.

You know, it, it, it really bothered me that I, it took me so

long to be able to figure it out.

So I, I wanted to say on a local level.

That and making sure our transportation deserts are being taken care of.

That's that's my initiative.

So figuring out something else other than the volunteer driver programs.

They're great.

They are going to stick around, but I believe the way we are right

now that they're going to dwindle.

So we need to find other ways and other means.

Next on a state level.

I am sit on the New York State Association for Mobility Management

as a board of directors, where we have initiatives of making sure that

we are collaborating with all of our.

National technical grantors that give us all the information to make sure that all

of our mobility and transit professionals in the state of New York are getting

the necessary tools that they need.

To get done what they have to do for their contracts and things,

because let's face it, in the city, everything's right in front of you.

In upstate New York here, you might have to drive six hours to take a test.

that test might only take you five minutes that you can't do online.

You have to come in person.

On a national level, this is why I'm here right now.

You know, I'm not here making noise.

We're here discussing the actual facts.

getting myself out there as Paul's allowed me to just like this and talking about it.

It's, it's obviously a, not only a national problem,

but it's a global problem.

Yeah, let's talk about that just a little bit.

So, here in the United States and Canada, I'm aware of 195 major

transit systems with over 100 buses.

So they're considered the larger systems, but there are hundreds and even thousands

of smaller systems, such as the ones both of you had up across here, that oftentimes

don't get a lot of attention, uh, and they aren't at a head, headlining the news.

but.

lot of the challenges are similar.

Wendy, we were talking in the green room about some of the challenges

that you face there in Texas.

Tell us about some of the challenges you're facing.

We, we understand now the role of, uh, public transportation and human

service transportation in rural areas.

Uh, but what are some of the challenges you're facing there?

So, we're no different than most of our sister agencies and,

you know, of course there's funding, of course there's, um, now there's lack

of fleet, the time to order a vehicle and get it in, if you can afford it.

Like Eddie said, you know, you can't afford anything.

If you can afford it, you're looking at a minimum of 24 months to get in a vehicle.

70 percent of our fleet is past its useful life.

Fortunately, we have a phenomenal maintenance crew,

and they just keep them going.

And we run them until they're, they just won't run anymore.

But, you also have This big struggle and it just seems to be

the gap is widening on finding and retaining staff to work for you.

if you do have the funding, everybody does the same.

They do everything they can to keep the funding on the street in the terms of

wheels rolling to provide as much service.

So, a lot of times staff.

These are the ones that get neglected to a little bit.

You don't have, you don't get the increase in funding to enrich your staff more,

help retain them, show them that this industry and everything that we do is,

it's an amazing industry and it is a, it's not just a job, it is a career

and you're changing lives every day.

Those are our struggles, some of them we could go on, but another thing is

convincing people that public transit is a big deal, and it does so much more than

drive around the town and move people, it's a huge, vital mechanism that every

community needs, people often don't understand that until they come to the

point to where they themselves need it or their family member needs it, and it's

hard to translate until they get to that point of personally seeing a connection.

so those are a lot of our struggles.

We have more, but.

that's what we mainly consistently fight.

You mentioned, something, Wendy, which I, I remember well,

especially when I was working in a smaller system, was the, um, the way

I felt every night when I came home.

I was interacting directly with passengers who I knew were making

a difference in their life.

And it, it, um, it warmed my heart.

I don't know how else to say it.

You know, you felt satisfied and fulfilled that you were making

a difference in their life.

I mean, What made you, Eddie, want to get involved in mobility management?

Actually it was COVID.

COVID happened and everything shut down.

And I, I went out for a walk one night.

And, I got a call from my grandmother who lives 18 miles outside the nearest town.

And she's by herself.

And she was crying.

And I said, what's wrong with grandma?

She goes, I forgot to stop at the store when my buddy brought me home.

I'm hungry, I don't have anything to eat.

she was crying simply because, first of all, she, she forgot

that she had to go to the store.

She didn't, and she didn't, she was too worried about taking up the

other person's time, that she didn't even get her food to come back.

So just that situation and myself, learning about that

myself, it really upset me.

So I took it upon myself, um, I did some research.

And out of my, um, little, little garage, I was able to, um, I

did something about it, Paul.

I started my own little LLC ride share company called Finger Lakes Rides, and

it ended up catering to eight different counties, um, 30 to 50 drivers at a time.

When everything shut down, we stood up.

It's not around anymore, but, it really, really set that tone for me to

go that Full throttle, but you know.

Yeah, that's good.

Thanks for throwing in my, uh, title of my book.

I appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Full throttle, yeah.

So, uh, Wendy, let's talk about that going in, now that we're into 2024, as

folks are listening to this, what do you see as, uh, what's on the horizon

for rural transportation, in 2024?

So a lot of our, you know, the transit world, COVID,

again, everything comes back.

Covid altered the route of the transit world to a degree.

A lot.

There's a lot of micro transit now.

The focus is not, you know, so much fixed route.

for us.

I think we just are our service need for in demand response and paratransit,

which is primarily what we offer in the, the really rural areas.

the need just grew people, all kinds of reasons, financial

reasons being one of them.

They're to the point where they are transportation deprived for one reason

or another, whether they've aged out of driving, don't feel comfortable

driving, a lot of mental health issues, they take medications that prohibit,

but our need, our demand has tripled.

so we are trying to find a way to expand in to the underserved areas more, if

you can find the funding, that's great.

We can often sometimes find the funding, but then we struggle with the match.

So match is a huge thing.

and I get it.

I understand the need for it, but it.

It also, hog ties us, we have this whole pot of money here, but we

can't touch it because we don't have the funding, the match to match it.

personally, we have a lot of projects on the horizon, you know, but, our

number one goal is always service driven and myself and my staff.

And our whole team here, we are always sacrificing what's in the better good of

ourselves for putting more service on the street so that, you know, people like his

grandma don't have to worry about that and they don't have to interrupt their staff.

They can have their own freedom to live their lives and not feel like such

a burden to their families or their friends and just also keep on going.

we have a lot of communities that are so rural.

They're, they're literally dying out.

Like the, the towns are decreasing.

They're not increasing.

we service I think 13, over 13,000 square miles.

It's, it's a big footprint, but so many people have nothing.

Yeah, yeah, the, the match issue you mentioned, uh, normally larger

transit agencies maybe don't have that issue, but just to kind of frame that,

um, so you're, you're serving rural areas or serving small counties, as Wendy said,

some of these counties may have 10, 000 people, 15, 000 people, small budgets.

They don't have extra money to put into transportation, and so when a federal

or state grant opportunity comes up, it could be a 75 percent grant, but

they need a 25 percent match, and they just can't come up with that money.

Wendy, I remember back in my 20s, We had the same situation happen.

I wanted to start a weekend shopper shuttle.

I called it.

Uh, we had some outlet stores, et cetera, and I wanted to run some service and I

was able to get a state grant to pay for it, but I could not find the local match.

So I asked the county commissioners.

They said, Paul, we have no extra money to give you.

Um, and I said, well, can I go out and raise the match myself?

And they said, yeah, sure.

And so I went out and knocked on doors and knocked on 50 bit more than 50.

But I got 50 businesses to each donate anywhere from, you know, 250 to 5, 000

and, uh, and over a course of a period of time, I was able to raise up enough

money, uh, as a match, which they then donated to the county and the county

promised and used that money to match the The state dollars and the federal

dollars we got from the grant back then, it was called section 18 grants.

Um, and, uh, and we use that money to run the shore shopper

shuttle for, for a while.

I don't remember how long it went, but we had to raise the money ourselves.

So sometimes you gotta be creative, maybe not a bake sale, but

there's other ways to raise money.

Uh, and, and you have a win.

Eddie, tell us about your biggest win from this year.

My biggest win?

Well, my biggest win probably is number one, understanding that the

only way that rural communities like mine are ever, ever going to

evolve

is by collaboration and breaking down those silos.

You know, that is, that is huge.

It's ultimately huge.

And number two, just as important.

Knowledge of service and letting know the people that live in more urban areas

that have a little bit more control over funding and things like that, that we are

here and we need just as much attention than the cities and urban areas do.

Yeah, a big part of, what I found in rural areas, I was the

president of the State Transit Association in Maryland called TAM, Transportation

Association of Maryland for a few years, and was real active with, co chair of the

State Medical Assistance Transportation Task Force back in the 90s, and what I

saw is what you talked about breaking down those silos, Eddie, there were a lot of

services that got transportation dollars, and that sometimes they overlapped each

other, so for instance, I ran a senior center shuttle, and, And there was an

adult daycare center that had offices in the same building as our senior center.

They had services there.

And they had their vans, and I had my vans.

And we ran out down the same streets, picked up people on opposite sides, and

brought them back to the same building.

And I remember thinking how silly that was, and why couldn't we coordinate?

And the further I got into it, it was insurance regulations that would

not allow us, for the Department of Aging, to pick up their clients.

or vice versa.

It's those kind of barriers, I think, that rural and suburban

areas continue to break down.

Wendy, uh, thank you for the, for sharing with us.

Are there any other final thoughts you want to share as we close out,

kind of taking a look at the topics that surround rural transportation?

I love to educate people on what public transit truly is, not

what they think it is, and what it means for the people that utilize it.

I don't think people always fully stop to grasp that, It helps people be financially

independent and keeps them off of welfare programs and keeps them alive and, um,

keeps children going to school sometimes.

there's so much more to it.

And I think once people start learning and just start looking into it a little bit

more, they, it changes their perspective and that goes for users as well.

It's, It's a lot of things.

It's not just public transit.

It's not just for, um, indigent or low class or medical needs.

It's, it's everything.

Eddie, any final thoughts from you?

I'll just say that, of course, we all have our own specific

situations in everywhere of the country.

But I will say that, not just nationally, but, but on a global basis now we we

are facing a huge epidemic and I will say that's mental health and that is

falling upon everything and we need to remember that we need to fix ourselves

first before we can fix everything else and that's where it starts and

then again breaking down those silos and collaboration is key Easy as that.

Very good.

Well, to wrap up, I want to thank, uh, my friend, Scott, who's head of CTAA,

the Community Transportation Association of America, for, uh, suggesting

you, Wendy, as a guest on the show.

And thank you, Eddie, for helping organize this, uh, great look at what's happening,

kind of in some places that sometimes get forgotten in all the hubbub of the

latest high speed rail and the latest, uh, big transit news that a big part of

our country, what they oftentimes call the Flyover country in the, not in the

coast, you know, and, and even though Eddie, you and I are on the coast,

but a lot of the country, is providing public transportation in multiple ways.

They're, they're blending funding streams when it comes from, uh,

medical assistance, transportation, whether it's coming from human service,

transportation, or 5311 funds, and all these different sources of funds,

putting together and putting them under.

county and city transportation programs that are run oftentimes by people

who are underpaid, underappreciated, but whose value, is dramatic in the

lives of the people they serve, and they may not be serving hundreds

of thousands of people a day.

Maybe they're only serving hundreds Three or four hundred people a day,

but for those people, it is a lifeline, uh, to get to the services they need.

And Wendy and Eddie, I think you've been able to describe that in very

great detail today for our listeners.

Thanks again for the work you do.

We wish you the best as you continue in this year of, uh, making a

difference in other people's lives.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Paul.

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode with our special guests.

Eddie VanStien and Wendy Weedon.

Coming up next week on the show, we go from the small towns to the big cities.

With Eve Wiggins, director of transit at Mississauga transit

in Mississauga, Ontario.

Where we learn about her secret sauce for increasing ridership 27% year over year.

And at 109% of ridership since 2019.

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