Steve Palmer [00:00:00]:

Steve Palmer here, Lawyer Talk Off The Record on the air. Coming at you with another episode today, I'm going to Talk about a YouTube video I watched and I was doom scrolling after a long day in court, believe it or not, we lawyers also have to blow off steam. Sometimes that's exercise, sometimes it's doom scrolling, sometimes it's something. Who knows? Anyway, here's what I saw. It was a judge, I think, down in Texas. And maybe people have seen him, I can't remember his name, but he sits on the bench and he sort of evaluates cases. And I think he's probably in what their version is of a, of a probable cause judge. He handles probably on the municipal side or an initial appearance side on felonies and then does something akin to probable cause hearings where he determines if there's enough to go forward on a case.

Steve Palmer [00:00:42]:

And there was a gentleman in front of him who was claiming to want to represent himself. And this got me thinking about whether people, or if you're a defendant or if you're accused of something, should you represent yourself in court? And I get questions like this all the time. And you know, there's a famous saying. I quoted Abraham Lincoln in another episode. I'll do it here too. Abraham Lincoln. At least the quote is attributed to Abraham Lincoln. Whether it's true or not, who knows? But he said he who represents himself has a fool for a lawyer.

Steve Palmer [00:01:12]:

What does that mean? Well, that means you're a fool if you represent yourself. I have been accused of things in court, not serious, but speeding tickets or maybe a failure to yield if there's an accident or something, and not even I have, I would find a buddy to represent me. But, but that's because it's sort of like a mechanic. You can find your mechanic friend at the shop who's going to fix your car for you or help you fix your car and you don't have to pay. There's lots of perks in various careers or various professions. So I was able to procure a lawyer and I didn't have to pay. But when, as I thought more about it, like when would it be okay to represent yourself in a courtroom? Almost never, right? Almost never. If it's serious.

Steve Palmer [00:01:52]:

And by serious I mean if you can go to jail, if you're charged with something that can put you in jail, do not, do not think that you can go into a courtroom and represent yourself effectively as an attorney. Would you see famous cases on TV all the time? I think Ted Bundy was one of them. He went, he was the perfect stranger. Mark Harmon played him in the movie. But look up Ted Bundy. He's a famous serial killer. I think he represented himself down in Florida when he was charged with a string of murders. And he was a genius level, I think even had a law degree or was in law school at one point.

Steve Palmer [00:02:26]:

But you just can't be effective representing yourself. You lose a perspective, and you don't even know you're losing it. That's the problem with it. I can make decisions on your behalf or with you. I can consult with you. I can bounce ideas off you. If you're my client, I can share your thoughts. I can even try to help.

Steve Palmer [00:02:43]:

I can try to perceive and feel your emotion about it. But then I can step aside from the emotion and say, all right, here's where you're coming from. Here's the reality of the situation. Let's chat. And if you're representing yourself, you lose that perspective. And it's very difficult to even know that you lost that perspective. It's like the fish are swimming in water and they don't even know it until they're out of the water and then they're dead. So it's almost never a good idea to represent yourself if you're charged with something that can put you in jail.

Steve Palmer [00:03:14]:

Now, what about things that can't put you in jail? What about a traffic ticket? And I have these conversations with folks all the time. They call me and say, hey, look, I got a speeding ticket on State Route 23 coming home from Detroit or whatever. Will you represent me? I'm like, yeah, but it's going to cost you a lot of money. And you may not want to spend that money on an attorney to represent you in a case that can only result in a fine of up to $150 and two points on your record. If you're a commercial driver, then it has more consequences. If you're driving your tractor trailer, it's probably worth hiring a lawyer. Or if you've got lots of points on your license already and you want to make sure to minimize it, those things may make sense, but I get people all the time who say, I'm just going to do it myself. I'm just going to go into court and talk to a prosecutor and see if I can negotiate some reduction of my speed.

Steve Palmer [00:04:01]:

And I say, you know what? Go forth and prosper. Good luck. I mean, don't think that you can do it as well as we could, and don't think that you'll get the same outcome. But if you go into it understanding that and you were just going to pay the ticket anyway, I don't have a problem with that. If you disagree with me, let me know. I'm sure there might be lawyers disagreeing, but. But if you disagree, let me know. But I generally don't have a problem with that.

Steve Palmer [00:04:21]:

Another area, oftentimes I've had people come to me and say, look, I want to represent myself. I want to get my record sealed or expunged. I represent myself. This is a dicier one because you can run into judges who won't let you seal your record or expunge it, and then you're left standing there thinking, what do I do now? This request is getting denied. And what you don't know is if something like that does get denied, it might bring prevent you from trying again later for legal principles. For you legal geeks out there, it's called race judicata, meaning the thing has been adjudicated, so you might end up causing more harm than good. So should you represent yourself? Probably not, if there's any question at all. Probably not, if you can afford it.

Steve Palmer [00:05:03]:

If you need a lawyer, find a way to afford it. But generally, don't try to represent yourself, because as old Honest Abe said, if you're representing yourself, you have a fool for a lawyer that fools you. So anyway, lawyer talk off the record on there. If you've got a question, got a comment about this or any other episode, go ahead and shoot it at our podcast, LawyerTalkPodcast.com or leave it in the comments.