1 00:00:03,785 --> 00:00:07,045 Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly. 2 00:00:07,885 --> 00:00:12,165 Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by Morten Ballour, one of the founders of A-Rex Hooks. 3 00:00:12,625 --> 00:00:17,085 Intro: We take a deep dive into Scandinavian fishing, fly tying, hook design, 4 00:00:17,345 --> 00:00:20,605 Intro: and all things A-Rex. I think you're really going to enjoy this one. 5 00:00:21,485 --> 00:00:24,705 Intro: But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. 6 00:00:24,705 --> 00:00:29,525 Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend, and please subscribe and leave 7 00:00:29,525 --> 00:00:33,425 Intro: us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out. 8 00:00:34,265 --> 00:00:36,685 Intro: And we recently released our 800th 9 00:00:36,685 --> 00:00:41,145 Intro: episode. A huge shout out to all of our listeners, guests, and sponsors. 10 00:00:41,425 --> 00:00:45,705 Intro: We couldn't have done it without you, and your support means more to us than you will ever know. 11 00:00:46,285 --> 00:00:50,705 Intro: And we also recently released an interview-only show, The Long Haul with the 12 00:00:50,705 --> 00:00:54,945 Intro: Articulate Fly. So if you prefer to listen to The Articulate Fly without the 13 00:00:54,945 --> 00:00:59,105 Intro: fishing reports, just search for The Long Haul in your favorite podcatcher. 14 00:00:59,945 --> 00:01:01,425 Intro: Now, on to the interview. 15 00:01:02,565 --> 00:01:04,545 Marvin: Well, Morten, welcome to The Articulate Fly. 16 00:01:05,305 --> 00:01:07,325 Morten: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 17 00:01:07,685 --> 00:01:10,605 Marvin: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation, and we have a tradition 18 00:01:10,605 --> 00:01:14,725 Marvin: on The Articulate Fly. We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory. 19 00:01:16,125 --> 00:01:23,705 Morten: Well, it's, uh, I grew up on a farm here in Denmark and, uh, not far from that farm. 20 00:01:23,805 --> 00:01:28,165 Morten: There was a small pond and I, I first, the first memory I have from that pond, 21 00:01:28,285 --> 00:01:31,425 Morten: I think I was four years old and that was with my dad. 22 00:01:31,485 --> 00:01:34,005 Morten: My dad is not a fisherman at all. I was not a fisherman at all, 23 00:01:34,025 --> 00:01:38,905 Morten: but he, he took me down there and I was allowed to fish for maybe half an hour or something like that. 24 00:01:38,925 --> 00:01:41,865 Morten: Then he got bored and want to go home. home but i and 25 00:01:41,865 --> 00:01:44,585 Morten: after that you know i probably i'm quite sure that my 26 00:01:44,585 --> 00:01:48,025 Morten: both my dad and mom got pretty irritated with 27 00:01:48,025 --> 00:01:50,705 Morten: me because i want to go down there all the time but so i 28 00:01:50,705 --> 00:01:53,785 Morten: when at the time i was six i just started 29 00:01:53,785 --> 00:01:57,745 Morten: to go down there alone i can't i can't understand why my parents let me do that 30 00:01:57,745 --> 00:02:02,405 Morten: i wouldn't do that to my kids but that's it was another time i'm i'm 58 now 31 00:02:02,405 --> 00:02:06,845 Morten: and and you know i think back then you were allowed to do more than i don't 32 00:02:06,845 --> 00:02:10,865 Morten: know that's just my impression so from When I was six years old, 33 00:02:10,925 --> 00:02:14,385 Morten: I was fishing down in that pond all summer. 34 00:02:14,645 --> 00:02:17,785 Morten: And it was not like trout or anything. It was small. 35 00:02:18,225 --> 00:02:22,885 Morten: It was roaches. Not roaches, sorry. What do you call them? Small, 36 00:02:22,905 --> 00:02:25,725 Morten: shiny fish. Small bait fish, I would probably call it. 37 00:02:26,585 --> 00:02:28,465 Marvin: Yeah, like probably brim or perch. 38 00:02:29,305 --> 00:02:34,705 Morten: Exactly. Perch we had, a bit of bream, and no pikes there. 39 00:02:34,905 --> 00:02:39,605 Morten: But that came later on. So it's just, you know, small fish, but I was using 40 00:02:39,605 --> 00:02:42,925 Morten: my worms and a cane and just very basic equipment. 41 00:02:43,025 --> 00:02:47,565 Morten: So it's fantastic, fantastic memories, to be honest. And to this day, 42 00:02:47,645 --> 00:02:49,865 Morten: I still have it in, you know, it's part of my life. 43 00:02:50,627 --> 00:02:54,947 Morten: You know upbringing and it's uh yeah very important and very dear memories actually. 44 00:02:54,947 --> 00:02:58,727 Marvin: Yeah it's funny you say that so you can't see it but on the wall i've got a 45 00:02:58,727 --> 00:03:02,287 Marvin: picture of me probably maybe five or six with my grandfather fishing for trout 46 00:03:02,287 --> 00:03:06,887 Marvin: on a cane pole and he's got the aluminum worm box on his belt and wearing his 47 00:03:06,887 --> 00:03:12,287 Marvin: wellies so i i completely get it um yeah it's great stuff and. 48 00:03:12,287 --> 00:03:16,287 Morten: It seems like you never forget you know i think even in my fly fishing today 49 00:03:16,287 --> 00:03:19,507 Morten: or because Because you're so much into it as a kid. 50 00:03:19,747 --> 00:03:24,227 Morten: I think a lot of what you learned back then, you kind of have it with you. 51 00:03:24,547 --> 00:03:27,647 Morten: Even when you're fly fishing, the understanding of the fish, 52 00:03:27,827 --> 00:03:30,127 Morten: how they move, where they are. 53 00:03:31,907 --> 00:03:35,127 Morten: I'll never forget that. And I still use it to this day, to be honest. 54 00:03:36,667 --> 00:03:41,487 Morten: It's like a sixth sense you kind of get when you're young and a kid. 55 00:03:41,607 --> 00:03:43,627 Morten: I think, at least. That's my impression. 56 00:03:44,187 --> 00:03:48,347 Marvin: Well, I would tell you, I mean, you know, my, you know, kind of spending time 57 00:03:48,347 --> 00:03:51,427 Marvin: in the industry, I think all of the people that we think of as being great are 58 00:03:51,427 --> 00:03:53,867 Marvin: all, all bait gear and fly fishermen. 59 00:03:53,947 --> 00:03:56,667 Marvin: And they understand fish behavior. And particularly, I mean, 60 00:03:56,687 --> 00:03:59,487 Marvin: you know, this, we've taught fly design stuff, like you can't design predator 61 00:03:59,487 --> 00:04:01,167 Marvin: flies if you don't know what fish are doing. 62 00:04:01,547 --> 00:04:03,507 Morten: No, it's true. I totally agree. 63 00:04:03,707 --> 00:04:07,067 Marvin: Yeah. So, yeah. So when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing? 64 00:04:08,227 --> 00:04:11,367 Morten: Fishing well uh quite late actually 65 00:04:11,367 --> 00:04:14,947 Morten: to be honest i was maybe 17 18 66 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:18,887 Morten: uh i was using spinning gear 67 00:04:18,887 --> 00:04:21,667 Morten: and from for quite quite a long 68 00:04:21,667 --> 00:04:24,367 Morten: time then i started working in a in a 69 00:04:24,367 --> 00:04:27,327 Morten: shop it was not a fly shop but it was a shop where we sold sport 70 00:04:27,327 --> 00:04:30,347 Morten: fish sports equipment and fishing and hunting gear 71 00:04:30,347 --> 00:04:34,347 Morten: and all that i think you'd call it all tackle probably and 72 00:04:34,347 --> 00:04:37,027 Morten: uh that was it an older guy there was a fly 73 00:04:37,027 --> 00:04:40,027 Morten: fisherman and he introduced me to fly fishing and from then 74 00:04:40,027 --> 00:04:42,887 Morten: on it just you know took off so it 75 00:04:42,887 --> 00:04:45,787 Morten: was quite late and uh yeah but i 76 00:04:45,787 --> 00:04:49,207 Morten: spent all my time on fly fishing it's still just like 77 00:04:49,207 --> 00:04:52,647 Morten: being a kid again to be honest we spoke about before it's 78 00:04:52,647 --> 00:04:55,507 Morten: just you know it's just like starting all over 79 00:04:55,507 --> 00:04:58,487 Morten: just in fly fishing i didn't know anything i 80 00:04:58,487 --> 00:05:01,367 Morten: didn't know what to do i needed to read books that by back 81 00:05:01,367 --> 00:05:04,467 Morten: then it was all books no no youtube no instagram 82 00:05:04,467 --> 00:05:07,887 Morten: no nothing all books and so i 83 00:05:07,887 --> 00:05:13,467 Morten: bought a lot of books and yeah bought a lot of american magazine magazines actually 84 00:05:13,467 --> 00:05:17,987 Morten: fly fisherman was with me from that time i bought every issue was super expensive 85 00:05:17,987 --> 00:05:22,907 Morten: here in denmark to get them but uh i i've read i don't know how many issues 86 00:05:22,907 --> 00:05:26,507 Morten: of uh of fly fishermen i learned a lot from them back then. 87 00:05:27,728 --> 00:05:34,688 Morten: Back then, it was all the great ones like Lefty Cray and Bob Klauser. 88 00:05:35,488 --> 00:05:39,448 Morten: It was just amazing to read about these people and how they were fishing. 89 00:05:39,628 --> 00:05:41,068 Morten: I learned a lot from them. 90 00:05:42,028 --> 00:05:46,648 Morten: I have a feeling today, even though I grew up in Denmark, I'm fishing in Denmark, 91 00:05:46,728 --> 00:05:53,908 Morten: I think a lot of where I learned my fly fishing from was actually from the U.S. 92 00:05:53,908 --> 00:05:58,088 Morten: Because I was reading a lot of American magazines and books. back then. 93 00:05:58,288 --> 00:06:02,248 Marvin: Yeah. It's an interesting thing because we're roughly the same age and, 94 00:06:02,268 --> 00:06:05,268 Marvin: you know, it's like fishing with grandparents, fishing with parents. 95 00:06:06,288 --> 00:06:08,968 Marvin: You know, it's kind of funny because I try to tell my boys that, 96 00:06:09,028 --> 00:06:11,808 Marvin: you know, it's like you literally got a newsletter in the mail and someone hand 97 00:06:11,808 --> 00:06:13,688 Marvin: wrote your name on it and put it in the post. 98 00:06:13,788 --> 00:06:18,888 Marvin: And, you know, I think in some ways it's hurt us from a sports perspective because 99 00:06:18,888 --> 00:06:24,888 Marvin: I think people don't put the time in to kind of have the foundation of knowledge. 100 00:06:25,028 --> 00:06:27,308 Marvin: And so they say, well, just tell me what to do or tell me what to buy. 101 00:06:27,848 --> 00:06:33,408 Marvin: And I think it really hurts, I mean, to the extent people want to be complete 102 00:06:33,408 --> 00:06:36,168 Marvin: anglers, I think it really hurts their development. But then I think it's amazing. 103 00:06:36,408 --> 00:06:41,408 Marvin: I was online the other day, and I was shocked to see that Martin at the Global 104 00:06:41,408 --> 00:06:43,648 Marvin: Fly Fisher just celebrated his 30th anniversary. 105 00:06:43,968 --> 00:06:46,848 Marvin: I mean, he was one of the original guys on the internet, right? 106 00:06:47,288 --> 00:06:47,948 Morten: He was. 107 00:06:48,248 --> 00:06:51,088 Marvin: Yeah. You know, kind of bridging it. 108 00:06:51,168 --> 00:06:53,988 Marvin: And so, you know, you were doing it kind of the old school way, 109 00:06:54,028 --> 00:06:56,148 Marvin: learning. Who are some of the people that, you know, because obviously, 110 00:06:56,208 --> 00:06:59,448 Marvin: as I always say, it's been kind of downhill for the last 40 years fly fishing. 111 00:07:00,748 --> 00:07:04,248 Marvin: Who are some of the people who have kind of mentored you on your journey? 112 00:07:06,049 --> 00:07:12,389 Morten: Well, apart from the ones I mentioned in like the great American tires and fly 113 00:07:12,389 --> 00:07:15,949 Morten: fishermen, I would say here in Denmark or maybe Scandinavia, 114 00:07:16,089 --> 00:07:22,789 Morten: we had a very important fly fisherman called Peyton Top Jacobsen, who's also an author. 115 00:07:22,889 --> 00:07:25,469 Morten: He made, I think he wrote maybe seven, eight books. 116 00:07:25,789 --> 00:07:30,969 Morten: And he actually lived only like, you know, 15 miles from here. 117 00:07:31,049 --> 00:07:35,849 Morten: So in my later age, I got to know him. 118 00:07:36,049 --> 00:07:38,889 Morten: And met him a few times and but all his 119 00:07:38,889 --> 00:07:41,829 Morten: books are like you know almost like small bibles to 120 00:07:41,829 --> 00:07:44,509 Morten: me and that's especially on the dry fly fishing and the 121 00:07:44,509 --> 00:07:49,829 Morten: nymph fishing that's what what he was doing and so he's he's been a mentor but 122 00:07:49,829 --> 00:07:55,629 Morten: even even even uh in spin he was not a you know another danish guy also a writer 123 00:07:55,629 --> 00:08:02,289 Morten: and an author but he was not fly fishing only a guy called jens plow hansen i think 124 00:08:02,369 --> 00:08:05,069 Morten: most europeans know him because he was 125 00:08:05,069 --> 00:08:08,009 Morten: very known for all his photo photographs so there 126 00:08:08,009 --> 00:08:10,989 Morten: he his photographs you see in a lot of different magazines i'm 127 00:08:10,989 --> 00:08:13,809 Morten: not sure if they made it to the u.s but at least over here 128 00:08:13,809 --> 00:08:18,729 Morten: he was quite well known and he became a good friend as well so but that was 129 00:08:18,729 --> 00:08:24,389 Morten: more like a fisherman mentor not like maybe a fly fisherman mentor but just 130 00:08:24,389 --> 00:08:29,589 Morten: the way he was thinking about fishing and life for that matter so i kind of 131 00:08:29,589 --> 00:08:31,369 Morten: i really like Like those two guys, 132 00:08:31,509 --> 00:08:36,729 Morten: Preben and Jens, they were mentors to me and a lot of other people for sure. 133 00:08:36,909 --> 00:08:41,589 Morten: But if I look at the Danes, they are probably the two that I remember the best. 134 00:08:41,889 --> 00:08:45,109 Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, just to kind of help. 135 00:08:45,189 --> 00:08:49,509 Marvin: Like I sort of have a little bit of a familiarity with sort of the Scandinavian 136 00:08:49,509 --> 00:08:52,949 Marvin: fishing culture because I think I mentioned to you that my wife lived in Denmark 137 00:08:52,949 --> 00:08:54,469 Marvin: and her first husband was a Dane. 138 00:08:54,469 --> 00:09:00,389 Marvin: And so when I think about Danish fly fishing, I think about fishing for sea trout. 139 00:09:01,029 --> 00:09:05,629 Marvin: And I think about, you know, it's a place, for example, like where Blaine's 140 00:09:05,629 --> 00:09:07,049 Marvin: predator flies are very popular. 141 00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:09,649 Marvin: Like that's a very part of that northern European fishing culture. 142 00:09:09,749 --> 00:09:13,309 Marvin: But for Americans who just kind of think about how we do things, 143 00:09:13,469 --> 00:09:19,349 Marvin: you know, how is kind of Danish and kind of Scandinavian fishing culture and 144 00:09:19,349 --> 00:09:21,089 Marvin: fly fishing different than in the States? Yeah. 145 00:09:22,965 --> 00:09:27,965 Morten: Well, for sure what you're mentioning with the sea trout, that counts for at 146 00:09:27,965 --> 00:09:32,785 Morten: least Denmark, the southern part of Sweden, northern part of Germany. 147 00:09:32,885 --> 00:09:37,405 Morten: I think we have a very strong, I think that's kind of the, you know, 148 00:09:37,425 --> 00:09:40,285 Morten: where it all started when it comes to sea trout fishing in the salt. 149 00:09:40,445 --> 00:09:43,365 Morten: That's what we're doing. It's a saltwater game fish actually for us. 150 00:09:43,465 --> 00:09:44,665 Morten: It's in the rivers as well. 151 00:09:44,785 --> 00:09:48,625 Morten: But I think the saltwater fishing for sea trout is probably what's the most known. 152 00:09:48,625 --> 00:09:51,465 Morten: And so that that differs a lot because you 153 00:09:51,465 --> 00:09:54,145 Morten: don't have that species that many places in the world we have 154 00:09:54,145 --> 00:09:56,965 Morten: it here and i i know the travelers come here 155 00:09:56,965 --> 00:09:59,965 Morten: now just to fish for that it's not because they're super big anything i 156 00:09:59,965 --> 00:10:02,825 Morten: think just people like you know people have 157 00:10:02,825 --> 00:10:05,505 Morten: their bargain lists and i guess the sea trout is ending up in 158 00:10:05,505 --> 00:10:08,645 Morten: that bargain list sometimes but i would say in general if 159 00:10:08,645 --> 00:10:12,125 Morten: you talk about fly fishing in scandinavia in general 160 00:10:12,125 --> 00:10:14,985 Morten: i would say we have the salmons we have the sea 161 00:10:14,985 --> 00:10:17,845 Morten: trout and we even have the pike and i need 162 00:10:17,845 --> 00:10:21,505 Morten: to mention that as well and and and especially in 163 00:10:21,505 --> 00:10:24,325 Morten: sweden you're seeing a really strong community around the pike 164 00:10:24,325 --> 00:10:27,325 Morten: now on the fly so it's uh i 165 00:10:27,325 --> 00:10:30,385 Morten: think those three game fish are the most important ones 166 00:10:30,385 --> 00:10:33,645 Morten: here we see the purchase will come out and i think but 167 00:10:33,645 --> 00:10:36,485 Morten: i think in general if you look at scandinavians they're very 168 00:10:36,485 --> 00:10:39,205 Morten: good fly casters most of 169 00:10:39,205 --> 00:10:42,085 Morten: them and i think it's because in eastern denmark you 170 00:10:42,085 --> 00:10:45,065 Morten: need to be a good caster if you're fishing in saltwater and we need these 171 00:10:45,065 --> 00:10:48,085 Morten: those long cast in cast in hauling winds 172 00:10:48,085 --> 00:10:51,005 Morten: and all that so you become a pretty good 173 00:10:51,005 --> 00:10:53,745 Morten: fly caster over here quite quickly if you don't you don't catch 174 00:10:53,745 --> 00:10:57,605 Morten: anything because we don't fish from boats i think that's a big difference between 175 00:10:57,605 --> 00:11:02,485 Morten: the us and and europe a lot of our fishing is waiting we're waiting in salt 176 00:11:02,485 --> 00:11:06,605 Morten: water and casting not from boats you could fish from boats but nobody does it 177 00:11:06,605 --> 00:11:11,925 Morten: so it's i think that's a big difference so good casters and a lot of good fly I must say. 178 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,640 Marvin: And then obviously, you know, you've got real winter in Scandinavia. So is travel, 179 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,620 Marvin: you know, like I noticed on your blog that you've got a lot of people in the 180 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:26,720 Marvin: company that like they're chasing bonefish right now, is kind of more deliberate 181 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,620 Marvin: kind of travel to kind of go places where it's warm or different? 182 00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:31,500 Marvin: Is that more part of the fly fishing culture? 183 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:37,400 Morten: It has become that. I wouldn't say, if you look maybe, I don't know, 184 00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:41,980 Morten: 15 years back maybe, it was not a big thing. 185 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:46,840 Morten: But the last 10, 15 years, traveling has become quite big for Scandinavians 186 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,620 Morten: as well. And I think it all started out with, you probably know, 187 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,380 Morten: the guy who founded Loop Tackle, Swedish guy. 188 00:11:55,860 --> 00:12:01,840 Morten: And he, Christoph Scherber, his name, he actually, when he started that company, 189 00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:04,860 Morten: it was only rods and reels and lines and all that. They did a very good job. 190 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,580 Morten: They had their own kind of feeling to it all. But he started traveling. 191 00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:12,980 Morten: And he actually developed Loop into almost a travel agency as well, 192 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Morten: which was quite early at that time. But I think he started all that traveling. 193 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:23,540 Morten: And I think now it's everybody, not everybody, a lot of people are traveling. 194 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:29,180 Morten: I'm not one of them, to be honest, but a lot of people do, especially during the long, cold winters. 195 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,760 Morten: It's a good escape. 196 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,300 Marvin: It's interesting too, you know, to see that because you see, 197 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,180 Marvin: because of the profitability in travel, like you see Farbank has purchased a 198 00:12:41,180 --> 00:12:45,720 Marvin: travel company, like you're seeing brands realize they can make a lot more money 199 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,480 Marvin: selling travel than they can selling gear. 200 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:54,120 Morten: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And it's, yeah, I agree. 201 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:59,560 Marvin: Yeah. So you took up fly fishing when you were 17. When did you get the fly tying bug? Yeah. 202 00:13:00,794 --> 00:13:04,874 Morten: Well at the same time almost it's uh because the 203 00:13:04,874 --> 00:13:07,574 Morten: the older gentleman worked in the shop he was 204 00:13:07,574 --> 00:13:11,194 Morten: a fly tire as well and we sold fly tying materials and 205 00:13:11,194 --> 00:13:13,914 Morten: hooks and all that back then so i started that 206 00:13:13,914 --> 00:13:16,614 Morten: as well i was not very good at it to be honest it took me some 207 00:13:16,614 --> 00:13:19,374 Morten: time to learn and i've tied a lot of but i think i guess 208 00:13:19,374 --> 00:13:26,574 Morten: that's i guess that counts for everybody but i really liked it uh so yeah i 209 00:13:26,574 --> 00:13:30,494 Morten: took it up the same time so i've been i've been tying ever since actually it's 210 00:13:30,494 --> 00:13:37,134 Morten: uh still not as much as i would like to these days but i'm doing it quite frequently yeah. 211 00:13:37,134 --> 00:13:40,574 Marvin: And so what was your first vice and do you remember the first fly you tied. 212 00:13:41,674 --> 00:13:47,854 Morten: Uh i i know i remember the fly it was a mickey finn it's uh i don't know if 213 00:13:47,854 --> 00:13:52,174 Morten: how popular that That is in the U.S., but over here it was kind of a stable 214 00:13:52,174 --> 00:13:53,654 Morten: pattern for many, many years, 215 00:13:53,774 --> 00:13:57,494 Morten: both for sea trout and for brown trout in the streams and all that. 216 00:13:57,614 --> 00:14:00,454 Morten: So that was the first one I tied. It's a pretty simple fly. 217 00:14:00,814 --> 00:14:06,294 Morten: So it's just a silver body and I think calf tails for the wing. 218 00:14:06,674 --> 00:14:11,454 Morten: So that was the first one. And I think the vice I had, we had a Danish vice 219 00:14:11,454 --> 00:14:13,554 Morten: company back then called Danvise. 220 00:14:13,834 --> 00:14:18,054 Morten: I think it was one of their vices. I'm quite sure it was. I can't remember exactly, 221 00:14:18,294 --> 00:14:19,674 Morten: but I'm quite sure it was, actually. 222 00:14:19,894 --> 00:14:22,094 Marvin: Yeah. And what do you tie on today? 223 00:14:23,374 --> 00:14:28,714 Morten: Today, I tie on a Regal. Yeah, Regal-wise. I really like that sturdy American, 224 00:14:28,954 --> 00:14:30,814 Morten: a little bit on the heavy side. 225 00:14:31,074 --> 00:14:34,734 Morten: And, you know, it's not – I know a lot of people like the Rinsettis. 226 00:14:34,734 --> 00:14:36,014 Morten: I think they're beautiful. 227 00:14:36,134 --> 00:14:39,274 Morten: I like the Rinsettis as well. But for me, the Regals are just, 228 00:14:39,354 --> 00:14:42,274 Morten: you know, bomb-proof, and they work all the time. 229 00:14:42,354 --> 00:14:45,614 Morten: I really appreciate tying on them. I've done it for many, many years now, actually. 230 00:14:46,944 --> 00:14:50,244 Marvin: It's an interesting thing. There's certainly a pocket. I'm sure you've seen 231 00:14:50,244 --> 00:14:52,124 Marvin: this because you've done the show circuit here in the States. 232 00:14:52,244 --> 00:14:55,104 Marvin: They're incredibly popular in the northeastern United States. 233 00:14:56,104 --> 00:14:58,704 Marvin: People tie on those, but yeah, obviously the Renzettis. 234 00:14:59,964 --> 00:15:02,884 Marvin: It's interesting to see. I would imagine, too, since you tie bigger flies, 235 00:15:03,044 --> 00:15:04,924 Marvin: you like the jaws on the regal. 236 00:15:05,344 --> 00:15:06,064 Morten: Exactly. Yeah. 237 00:15:06,744 --> 00:15:10,364 Marvin: And so, you know, that gets us, I apologize to you before we started recording 238 00:15:10,364 --> 00:15:13,904 Marvin: that we weren't going to talk about pike very much because I just ran out of time and space. 239 00:15:14,064 --> 00:15:17,424 Marvin: But I'm going to ask you your favorite flies to tie, and I suspect they're pike flies. 240 00:15:18,064 --> 00:15:21,504 Morten: Oh, yeah. The ones I still tie myself is actually my pike flies. 241 00:15:21,764 --> 00:15:23,504 Morten: And it's nothing special. 242 00:15:23,964 --> 00:15:28,624 Morten: It's actually built on the same thinking as Bob Popovich, his bucktail flies 243 00:15:28,624 --> 00:15:31,024 Morten: and bucktail deceivers and all that. 244 00:15:31,264 --> 00:15:37,904 Morten: So it's not my own creations. because he's done a phenomenal job on the par-butch fly. 245 00:15:38,024 --> 00:15:43,444 Morten: So I really like the way he's doing it. I'm just trying my best to make him 246 00:15:43,444 --> 00:15:44,524 Morten: look like what he is doing. 247 00:15:44,944 --> 00:15:48,304 Morten: So they work really well from our pike fishing over here. 248 00:15:48,484 --> 00:15:52,504 Morten: They got the right shape. And most of them are black. I'm sorry to say that, 249 00:15:52,604 --> 00:15:54,424 Morten: but black flies work really well. 250 00:15:54,984 --> 00:15:58,144 Marvin: Yeah, it's all good. And I was kind of curious too, 251 00:15:58,324 --> 00:16:02,984 Marvin: you know, because I met you at kind of a really kind of niche-y kind of fly-tongue 252 00:16:02,984 --> 00:16:05,124 Marvin: event, but I also know you were doing other shows in the States, 253 00:16:05,264 --> 00:16:10,484 Marvin: you know, who are some of the tires that you follow and who are kind of some 254 00:16:10,484 --> 00:16:12,924 Marvin: of the people you just mentioned, Bob, but who are some of the other folks that 255 00:16:12,924 --> 00:16:15,884 Marvin: have kind of influenced you as a tire and people that you just kind of watch 256 00:16:15,884 --> 00:16:17,304 Marvin: that you think are doing really neat things? 257 00:16:18,164 --> 00:16:23,764 Morten: Yeah. And I think if I look at what I'm doing now, I would say people like Garner 258 00:16:23,764 --> 00:16:27,324 Morten: Brammer is a great inspiration. Bob Popovich for sure. 259 00:16:27,904 --> 00:16:31,164 Morten: Klaus or his flies, but that's more on the traditional side, 260 00:16:31,244 --> 00:16:33,984 Morten: but it's still really, really good flies and then you 261 00:16:33,984 --> 00:16:37,504 Morten: have an english guy um paul monaghan 262 00:16:37,504 --> 00:16:43,304 Morten: uh he's a great great tire as well i think all these are in kind of the same 263 00:16:43,304 --> 00:16:47,464 Morten: tradition or the way they're doing things but they're tweaking it a little bit 264 00:16:47,464 --> 00:16:51,924 Morten: all of them so it's i always get new ideas from these guys and for sure some 265 00:16:51,924 --> 00:16:57,424 Morten: of the swedish guy andreas anderson great tire we have over here he's quite well known in the U.S. 266 00:16:57,464 --> 00:17:02,644 Morten: As well. He's part of the whole trout predator scene and made a few, 267 00:17:02,724 --> 00:17:06,284 Morten: created some of his own patterns. Very, very good fly tire. 268 00:17:06,484 --> 00:17:14,244 Morten: So, yeah, Andreas and Paul and Gunnar and Bob for sure, the old master. 269 00:17:14,484 --> 00:17:18,364 Marvin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting too with Gunnar because he's kind of, 270 00:17:18,364 --> 00:17:21,084 Marvin: he's like the young beast fly generation. 271 00:17:21,204 --> 00:17:25,244 Marvin: So, like, he's really trying to work with kind of Bob's flies. Yeah. 272 00:17:25,624 --> 00:17:28,544 Marvin: You know, it's where Whereas you see like, I kind of, because I'm still kind 273 00:17:28,544 --> 00:17:33,124 Marvin: of playing with this book idea and you kind of see the like Russ Madden articulation 274 00:17:33,124 --> 00:17:36,564 Marvin: and then you see the Blaine articulation platforms and kind of see who's tying off of those. 275 00:17:36,664 --> 00:17:41,504 Marvin: But it is interesting to see, you know, Gunner is really working really hard 276 00:17:41,504 --> 00:17:43,124 Marvin: just tying beast flies, right? Yeah. 277 00:17:44,086 --> 00:17:47,746 Morten: And I think what I like, I'm sure, and he also recognizes Bob, 278 00:17:47,906 --> 00:17:50,506 Morten: for sure, because that's where we all got it from. 279 00:17:50,626 --> 00:17:56,126 Morten: But I think what Gunnar is adding to it is he's very good at explaining on how 280 00:17:56,126 --> 00:17:58,766 Morten: he does it, even down to the smallest detail. 281 00:17:58,986 --> 00:18:04,666 Morten: And I really enjoyed watching some of his videos and going into all the niche, niche details. 282 00:18:05,066 --> 00:18:08,846 Morten: And that's what you want to do if you're not very good at it. 283 00:18:08,846 --> 00:18:14,006 Morten: As you know i i need to learn i i'm not i'm not a super tired but yeah i'll 284 00:18:14,006 --> 00:18:17,906 Morten: get it right eventually but uh then getting a few tips and tricks from guys 285 00:18:17,906 --> 00:18:22,346 Morten: like gunner and and paul monaghan that's that's just you know worth a lot. 286 00:18:22,346 --> 00:18:27,426 Marvin: Yeah and to go back you mean so different than you know reading a book right 287 00:18:27,426 --> 00:18:30,806 Marvin: and it's like and it's literally you know anywhere in the world and it's an 288 00:18:30,806 --> 00:18:35,046 Marvin: amazing thing you can find your people and um you know it's an amazing thing 289 00:18:35,046 --> 00:18:37,566 Marvin: like on the predator fly thing i can remember doing classes and we would have 290 00:18:37,566 --> 00:18:38,566 Marvin: people from south South Africa, 291 00:18:38,766 --> 00:18:40,966 Marvin: you know, and it's just like, they're like, how can we get the materials? 292 00:18:41,066 --> 00:18:45,626 Marvin: I was like, well, we can't help you with that, but we can get the internet to you. Right. So, yeah. 293 00:18:45,726 --> 00:18:48,586 Morten: And I think that's, I think that's the good thing about, uh, 294 00:18:49,006 --> 00:18:51,786 Morten: you know, books had a limitation today. 295 00:18:52,026 --> 00:18:57,346 Morten: You can sit in anywhere in the world and learn from the best quite easily and quite quickly. 296 00:18:57,626 --> 00:19:01,406 Morten: And also that's one of the reasons why we see so many good tires these days. 297 00:19:01,486 --> 00:19:04,906 Morten: And some of them are not even fishing, but they're extremely good tires. 298 00:19:05,586 --> 00:19:09,726 Morten: That's an interesting thing. And that's thanks to YouTube and Instagram and 299 00:19:09,726 --> 00:19:13,286 Morten: even TikTok maybe for the younger generation than us. 300 00:19:13,526 --> 00:19:16,566 Marvin: Yeah, well, I mean, it's amazing. Like if we were doing this the old school 301 00:19:16,566 --> 00:19:19,126 Marvin: way in the interview, we would be doing it on the phone and it would probably 302 00:19:19,126 --> 00:19:21,566 Marvin: cost $200 or $300 just to have the phone call, right? 303 00:19:21,766 --> 00:19:22,446 Morten: Yeah, exactly. 304 00:19:22,446 --> 00:19:30,166 Marvin: So i always like to uh to ask tires uh morton they all almost every tire that 305 00:19:30,166 --> 00:19:34,306 Marvin: i know has some kind of goofy weird tool that no one else really uses that they 306 00:19:34,306 --> 00:19:37,306 Marvin: can't live without particularly if they're tying predator fly stuff and i was 307 00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:39,706 Marvin: curious if you have something like that ah. 308 00:19:39,706 --> 00:19:48,306 Morten: Goofy tool no to be honest marvin i don't think i have i got my straws you know 309 00:19:48,306 --> 00:19:50,746 Morten: to pull push back the deer hair and all that. 310 00:19:50,846 --> 00:19:55,206 Morten: But I think that's more common today than it was maybe 10 years ago. 311 00:19:55,306 --> 00:19:58,186 Morten: Everybody has that these days. They'll have that these days. 312 00:19:58,346 --> 00:20:00,166 Morten: So no, I don't think I have any special. 313 00:20:00,386 --> 00:20:05,466 Marvin: Nothing that lives in a craft store in Denmark or like ladies nail polish or anything like that. 314 00:20:06,226 --> 00:20:10,486 Morten: No, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm old school that way. I don't know. 315 00:20:12,166 --> 00:20:15,886 Marvin: You know, it's more than doing the research for the interview. 316 00:20:15,886 --> 00:20:20,506 Marvin: Interview, you know, I think you spent probably close to 35 years in the industry. 317 00:20:20,586 --> 00:20:23,946 Marvin: And I was kind of curious, you know, when did you decide that you wanted to 318 00:20:23,946 --> 00:20:24,906 Marvin: make a living in fishing? 319 00:20:26,986 --> 00:20:31,786 Morten: Yeah, that's a good question. I started in the shop I mentioned earlier in 85, 320 00:20:32,466 --> 00:20:36,886 Morten: which was not just fishing, but I was, I was working in the fishing department 321 00:20:36,886 --> 00:20:40,646 Morten: as part of my job, not full time because it was not that big a department, 322 00:20:40,846 --> 00:20:43,306 Morten: but that was kind of my, my, so it's almost. 323 00:20:45,013 --> 00:20:48,273 Morten: Is that 40 years now? Yeah, it's 40. Sorry. 324 00:20:48,493 --> 00:20:50,973 Marvin: No, I always try to underguess on stuff like that, right? 325 00:20:52,853 --> 00:20:59,173 Morten: I kind of like, I like that, Marvin. Well, so I started there and I worked there 326 00:20:59,173 --> 00:21:01,713 Morten: for six years, which was a great experience. 327 00:21:01,873 --> 00:21:05,193 Morten: And then I studied for a while and traveled a little bit. 328 00:21:05,353 --> 00:21:08,893 Morten: And when I came back from the traveling, I don't know, you know, 329 00:21:08,913 --> 00:21:12,773 Morten: it's a little bit like the bumblebee that you don't know they can't fly. 330 00:21:12,773 --> 00:21:18,713 Morten: But I kind of got the idea that I wanted to have a company that sold fly-time materials. 331 00:21:19,693 --> 00:21:29,253 Morten: I thought I could live out of that. But if anybody asked me today if it was 332 00:21:29,253 --> 00:21:33,153 Morten: a good idea to do that, I'd probably say no, because it's not that easy. 333 00:21:33,373 --> 00:21:37,673 Morten: But I think we were kind of lucky at the time. We had some new materials coming 334 00:21:37,673 --> 00:21:42,893 Morten: up at that point. I think that was just when Arctic Fox started out. 335 00:21:42,953 --> 00:21:49,673 Morten: I don't know if you remember that, but that was actually back in 1990, 1991, 1992. 336 00:21:50,293 --> 00:21:54,513 Morten: Arctic Fox was coming onto the scene. Everybody was using bucktail, 337 00:21:54,613 --> 00:21:55,873 Morten: calf tails, and all that. 338 00:21:55,953 --> 00:22:00,813 Morten: Then this Arctic Fox tail came out, and that actually started out in this area. 339 00:22:01,313 --> 00:22:05,313 Morten: Norway, Denmark was among the first ones because we have all the, 340 00:22:05,313 --> 00:22:09,253 Morten: you know, and Finland as As well, we have all the, what do you call it, 341 00:22:09,273 --> 00:22:10,993 Morten: the fox farms and all that. 342 00:22:11,093 --> 00:22:14,413 Morten: So we got the tails from them and started dyeing them, selling them. 343 00:22:14,513 --> 00:22:20,493 Morten: So that was actually the door opener for me as a wholesale company going to the shops. 344 00:22:20,593 --> 00:22:24,253 Morten: That was the thing they bought from me. They didn't buy the flash. 345 00:22:24,413 --> 00:22:27,453 Morten: They didn't buy all the other stuff, but the foxtail they wanted. 346 00:22:27,653 --> 00:22:30,413 Morten: And that was actually where it all started, with the foxtail. 347 00:22:30,713 --> 00:22:33,973 Marvin: And did that start at the Fly Company or is that a... 348 00:22:33,973 --> 00:22:37,513 Morten: Yeah, that was the Fly Company. And we started that company in 95, 349 00:22:37,833 --> 00:22:43,773 Morten: as I said, it was a bit of, you know, a dream, but maybe not the best idea. 350 00:22:43,933 --> 00:22:46,293 Morten: It took a long time to make that work. 351 00:22:47,784 --> 00:22:51,164 Morten: Earn some money on it but eventually it it 352 00:22:51,164 --> 00:22:53,984 Morten: it got we we got it took off and 353 00:22:53,984 --> 00:22:56,844 Morten: we got a you know a place in the industry but 354 00:22:56,844 --> 00:22:59,724 Morten: it took some time we didn't have any money i started from scratch 355 00:22:59,724 --> 00:23:05,524 Morten: we did we had a very small credit in the bank that was all so no no no old money 356 00:23:05,524 --> 00:23:10,844 Morten: anything we started from totally from scratch no rich parents either but it 357 00:23:10,844 --> 00:23:13,904 Morten: was a good very good experience i would i wouldn't be without it because you 358 00:23:13,904 --> 00:23:19,084 Morten: learn a lot from from a tough start and it maybe took us i I don't know, the first five, 359 00:23:19,184 --> 00:23:21,504 Morten: six years, it was struggling every year. 360 00:23:21,644 --> 00:23:26,064 Morten: But, you know, if you keep on doing it and you try to do it well, 361 00:23:26,224 --> 00:23:31,504 Morten: eventually people will, you know, follow and buy some products from you. 362 00:23:31,584 --> 00:23:35,764 Morten: And you build a reputation, you may be on quality and, you know, 363 00:23:35,784 --> 00:23:39,544 Morten: deliver speed or whatever you want to build a company on. 364 00:23:39,784 --> 00:23:41,884 Morten: And, yeah, so that was 95. 365 00:23:42,384 --> 00:23:44,044 Marvin: Yeah. And you started that with your brother, right? 366 00:23:44,224 --> 00:23:48,004 Morten: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my brother is still actually, my brother is still at the, 367 00:23:48,024 --> 00:23:49,784 Morten: the flight company is still existing. 368 00:23:50,204 --> 00:23:54,324 Morten: It's still a Danish company and it's still, they still sell flight time materials. 369 00:23:54,824 --> 00:23:58,944 Morten: And my brother is still working there actually. So he's been at it even longer than me. 370 00:23:59,484 --> 00:24:03,884 Marvin: Was it helpful for the business, I guess, when the EU came into existence in 371 00:24:03,884 --> 00:24:06,744 Marvin: terms of the ease of moving stuff around on the continent? 372 00:24:07,244 --> 00:24:12,424 Morten: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very, very important, I would say. It's just very easy. 373 00:24:12,744 --> 00:24:14,864 Morten: And it still is very good. 374 00:24:15,384 --> 00:24:21,344 Morten: And even buying things within the EU for us, you know, we had Vinyard as a supplier. 375 00:24:21,544 --> 00:24:25,544 Morten: We even supplied them as well. So back then, just shipping product back and 376 00:24:25,544 --> 00:24:28,244 Morten: forth between UK and Denmark was very easy. 377 00:24:28,364 --> 00:24:32,184 Morten: Now it's become more difficult again because they decided on leaving EU. 378 00:24:32,344 --> 00:24:33,204 Morten: But that's another story. 379 00:24:33,444 --> 00:24:35,624 Marvin: Yeah, well, we won't talk about currency and all that sort of stuff. 380 00:24:35,624 --> 00:24:37,084 Morten: We'll keep politics out of this. 381 00:24:37,084 --> 00:24:43,484 Marvin: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I guess you sold, I guess, your interest in the fly 382 00:24:43,484 --> 00:24:45,984 Marvin: company and started A-Rex in 2016. 383 00:24:46,124 --> 00:24:50,524 Marvin: And I was really kind of curious, you know, because there are lots, 384 00:24:50,684 --> 00:24:55,684 Marvin: not a lot, but I mean, there are, I don't know, a half a dozen long-standing 385 00:24:55,684 --> 00:24:57,344 Marvin: hook companies in fishing. 386 00:24:57,504 --> 00:25:01,784 Marvin: I was kind of curious, you know, what opportunity you saw in the hook space 387 00:25:01,784 --> 00:25:03,404 Marvin: that you wanted to take advantage of. 388 00:25:04,647 --> 00:25:11,727 Morten: That's a very good question. To be honest, we started AERICS at the time we 389 00:25:11,727 --> 00:25:14,147 Morten: had the flying company as well, my brother and I. 390 00:25:14,287 --> 00:25:17,007 Morten: So AERICS was actually part of the flight company in the beginning. 391 00:25:17,607 --> 00:25:22,687 Morten: And to be honest, we didn't see a lot of opportunity. 392 00:25:22,727 --> 00:25:28,407 Morten: But what we were missing year after year, we were distributing Partridge, 393 00:25:28,607 --> 00:25:33,807 Morten: Chemco, Various, and Camazan in the flight company. 394 00:25:33,807 --> 00:25:38,767 Morten: And we had issues every spring to get the shrimp hooks we needed for the sea 395 00:25:38,767 --> 00:25:39,867 Morten: trout flies, basically. 396 00:25:40,407 --> 00:25:45,847 Morten: It was always sold out in March, and we needed them in April and May and June. We couldn't get them. 397 00:25:46,067 --> 00:25:49,707 Morten: And that was the same thing every year. I will not mention any brands here, 398 00:25:49,787 --> 00:25:51,747 Morten: but we had the same issue every year. 399 00:25:52,087 --> 00:25:55,367 Morten: So my brother and I decided, why don't we just make the shrimp hook? 400 00:25:55,487 --> 00:25:57,807 Morten: Because we really need that shrimp. We can make a hook. 401 00:25:57,947 --> 00:26:00,767 Morten: It can't be that difficult. and then they started 402 00:26:00,767 --> 00:26:03,727 Morten: researching and we found a design we liked 403 00:26:03,727 --> 00:26:06,687 Morten: and said okay we we'll make two models 404 00:26:06,687 --> 00:26:09,567 Morten: and that's all and it needed 405 00:26:09,567 --> 00:26:12,227 Morten: a name and we came up with the name erics but we 406 00:26:12,227 --> 00:26:15,007 Morten: didn't have a you know in the beginning we didn't 407 00:26:15,007 --> 00:26:17,807 Morten: have a long strategy anything like that we 408 00:26:17,807 --> 00:26:20,687 Morten: should build this into a it branded a big brand 409 00:26:20,687 --> 00:26:23,627 Morten: in its own anything like that it was just to fill the gap 410 00:26:23,627 --> 00:26:27,467 Morten: of hooks we couldn't get and then 411 00:26:27,467 --> 00:26:30,207 Morten: when the when we started introducing the brand 412 00:26:30,207 --> 00:26:33,087 Morten: people started right away people started asking us 413 00:26:33,087 --> 00:26:35,967 Morten: why why don't you make a this hook or that hook and 414 00:26:35,967 --> 00:26:39,767 Morten: say well maybe we could do that as well and then from there we decided to okay 415 00:26:39,767 --> 00:26:46,087 Morten: if we want to do that we want to do it probably probably and then we started 416 00:26:46,087 --> 00:26:51,407 Morten: develop more like a more general thinking about But what is it we want to do? 417 00:26:51,547 --> 00:26:53,227 Morten: Do we have more series of hooks? 418 00:26:53,467 --> 00:26:59,227 Morten: How should we work with that? Do we need social media? How would you do things in general? 419 00:26:59,847 --> 00:27:04,967 Morten: But all the time, and to this day, actually, I think the most important things 420 00:27:04,967 --> 00:27:08,307 Morten: for us is to have hooks in stock at all times. 421 00:27:08,967 --> 00:27:13,467 Morten: That's actually the basic things. That's the secret, to be honest, with the Herix. 422 00:27:13,587 --> 00:27:17,227 Morten: We have hooks in stock all the time. We've never run out. 423 00:27:17,847 --> 00:27:21,407 Morten: And I think for a lot of people, both tires but even 424 00:27:21,407 --> 00:27:24,307 Morten: for shops for commercial operations like you know 425 00:27:24,307 --> 00:27:27,407 Morten: blaine good example if if 426 00:27:27,407 --> 00:27:30,147 Morten: he if he can't get the hook he need for his 427 00:27:30,147 --> 00:27:35,687 Morten: fly in time he will be out of flies when the season starts and he will he will 428 00:27:35,687 --> 00:27:39,887 Morten: never go back to a company where he can't get the hook he needs for his flies 429 00:27:39,887 --> 00:27:43,707 Morten: because he will be out of business at least lose a lot of business so having 430 00:27:43,707 --> 00:27:48,887 Morten: hooks in stock at all times that actually that's actually the secret of erics the rest is just, 431 00:27:49,627 --> 00:27:51,667 Morten: icing on the cake, all the social media. 432 00:27:51,847 --> 00:27:55,387 Morten: And people like that. We love it to make it. So it's for us, 433 00:27:55,407 --> 00:27:56,887 Morten: it's that's, you know, that's the. 434 00:27:58,724 --> 00:28:02,164 Morten: That's the hobby for me around it, you know, photographing all the beautiful 435 00:28:02,164 --> 00:28:05,344 Morten: flies and posting that on social media. I really like, I enjoy that. 436 00:28:05,604 --> 00:28:12,504 Morten: But the basic thing is having hooks in stock at all times. It's very simple, to be honest. It is. 437 00:28:12,864 --> 00:28:16,564 Marvin: But, you know, it's an interesting thing you say that because we have that conversation all the time. 438 00:28:16,624 --> 00:28:19,344 Marvin: And I think, you know, consumers may not understand that, like, 439 00:28:19,384 --> 00:28:23,324 Marvin: if you miss the delivery window, you're not late a month, you're late a year. 440 00:28:23,944 --> 00:28:24,324 Morten: Exactly. 441 00:28:24,564 --> 00:28:28,284 Marvin: And that's not great. Great. And I would say, you know, the interesting thing, 442 00:28:28,384 --> 00:28:31,584 Marvin: you know, for A-Rex, and I think, I guess, so your first hook was your Gamera's 443 00:28:31,584 --> 00:28:33,244 Marvin: hook, right? Isn't that your shrimp hook? Yeah. 444 00:28:34,884 --> 00:28:38,024 Marvin: And, you know, it's been pretty amazing to me. 445 00:28:38,084 --> 00:28:41,384 Marvin: I mean, you know, even with COVID, you know, eight years in, 446 00:28:41,564 --> 00:28:45,064 Marvin: I mean, incredibly popular, very wide adoption. 447 00:28:46,084 --> 00:28:49,244 Marvin: Like I know, you know, Blaine is using them for his flies. 448 00:28:49,464 --> 00:28:52,784 Marvin: There are other people that are doing that, but, you know, in particular in 449 00:28:52,784 --> 00:28:56,264 Marvin: the predator fly space, you guys, I would say, are probably the dominant hook 450 00:28:56,264 --> 00:29:00,084 Marvin: manufacturer there you know how do you think that happens so quickly because 451 00:29:00,084 --> 00:29:01,944 Marvin: there's got to be a little bit more than just having the hooks. 452 00:29:01,944 --> 00:29:06,324 Morten: Right yeah true when it comes yeah how many hooks is one thing that's actually 453 00:29:06,324 --> 00:29:10,704 Morten: maybe the base of everything to be honest i think working with a lot of very 454 00:29:10,704 --> 00:29:15,044 Morten: experienced fly fishermen and fly tires around the world that's the other part 455 00:29:15,044 --> 00:29:19,844 Morten: of it working with gunner brammer is one of them paul monahan i mentioned as 456 00:29:19,844 --> 00:29:21,504 Morten: well so we have got a lot of 457 00:29:21,584 --> 00:29:24,984 Morten: inspiration for a lot of very good tires and good fly fishermen. 458 00:29:25,124 --> 00:29:29,304 Morten: As you said in the beginning, it's very hard to create a good fly. 459 00:29:29,564 --> 00:29:34,044 Morten: If you're not fishing yourself, you need to understand the basic, you know. 460 00:29:34,911 --> 00:29:39,151 Morten: Basic things about how a fly should look, how it should swim in the water and all that. 461 00:29:39,291 --> 00:29:44,011 Morten: And if you can do that, you can also see, okay, if I had this hook made like 462 00:29:44,011 --> 00:29:46,491 Morten: that, that would make my fly even better. 463 00:29:46,751 --> 00:29:50,391 Morten: And that's, I think we've been good listeners as well. And for sure, 464 00:29:50,411 --> 00:29:54,171 Morten: we've been designing a few models ourselves as well, because we are fly fishermen 465 00:29:54,171 --> 00:29:55,331 Morten: and fly tires ourselves. 466 00:29:55,731 --> 00:30:00,631 Morten: But we've been listening a lot to a lot of other people all over the world, especially from the US. 467 00:30:00,631 --> 00:30:04,191 Morten: And just to mention one more very important 468 00:30:04,191 --> 00:30:08,151 Morten: part of eric's is actually steve silverio who quite 469 00:30:08,151 --> 00:30:13,631 Morten: early on reached out and said i want to work with you guys i think you you you're 470 00:30:13,631 --> 00:30:18,871 Morten: on to something here and we and he's been very very important part for for us 471 00:30:18,871 --> 00:30:25,711 Morten: in of the team in the u.s to be honest so and steve being who he is and knowing 472 00:30:25,711 --> 00:30:27,491 Morten: knowing everybody and And, you know, 473 00:30:27,511 --> 00:30:31,611 Morten: being able to talk to everybody has been very, very good for us, for sure. 474 00:30:32,911 --> 00:30:34,311 Morten: He's a good friend now as well. 475 00:30:34,591 --> 00:30:38,771 Marvin: Yeah, he's a piece of work. I spent some time with him in Michigan, 476 00:30:38,851 --> 00:30:40,311 Marvin: but I didn't drink any rum with him. 477 00:30:41,031 --> 00:30:42,391 Morten: Shouldn't. Never. 478 00:30:44,471 --> 00:30:48,871 Marvin: So, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, you've got a long history in the industry. 479 00:30:49,071 --> 00:30:53,831 Marvin: Was there anything that kind of pops into your mind as like a greatest challenge 480 00:30:53,831 --> 00:30:57,611 Marvin: or surprise as you built out the hook company? something that you didn't expect 481 00:30:57,611 --> 00:30:58,651 Marvin: to have happen that happened. 482 00:31:00,107 --> 00:31:03,707 Morten: Well, I don't think there was anything I didn't expect. 483 00:31:03,927 --> 00:31:08,307 Morten: I think what we all got hit by was the COVID period. 484 00:31:08,607 --> 00:31:14,087 Morten: I think that's actually, but nobody could foresee how that would affect our 485 00:31:14,087 --> 00:31:17,347 Morten: industry and every industry, to be honest. 486 00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:22,567 Morten: And I think what we experienced at that time was, as everybody else did, 487 00:31:22,707 --> 00:31:24,787 Morten: was longer and longer lead times. 488 00:31:24,887 --> 00:31:29,227 Morten: When I was ordering a hook, it would take like almost a year to get it. 489 00:31:29,227 --> 00:31:32,367 Morten: And uh and it and and that was 490 00:31:32,367 --> 00:31:35,507 Morten: very very challenging i was thankful that we had such 491 00:31:35,507 --> 00:31:38,447 Morten: a big stock which helped us out but even 492 00:31:38,447 --> 00:31:43,307 Morten: we ran out for sure like everybody else did at that period because we couldn't 493 00:31:43,307 --> 00:31:48,527 Morten: just we couldn't just order a new batch of hooks because every everybody was 494 00:31:48,527 --> 00:31:52,787 Morten: so busy at that point you know as you know fly fishing and fishing in general 495 00:31:52,787 --> 00:31:57,307 Morten: just got super All outdoor activities got super big. 496 00:31:57,447 --> 00:32:03,287 Morten: So, and, you know, getting things transported from one place to another was a challenge. 497 00:32:03,447 --> 00:32:07,347 Morten: So everything, but that's, you know, that's more a general thing that it is 498 00:32:07,347 --> 00:32:13,107 Morten: because I think just to get back to your question, I haven't been that surprised. 499 00:32:13,207 --> 00:32:19,027 Morten: I've been very positively surprised about how, and especially Americans reach 500 00:32:19,027 --> 00:32:22,587 Morten: out to small companies and really want to help out. 501 00:32:22,587 --> 00:32:29,307 Morten: And that's where us being able to speak directly to some of the tires in the 502 00:32:29,307 --> 00:32:34,407 Morten: U.S. at a very early point really helped us out to point us in the right direction. 503 00:32:34,807 --> 00:32:38,387 Morten: But that's another positive side. I didn't expect that, to be honest. 504 00:32:38,467 --> 00:32:40,467 Morten: I would have thought that it would be more difficult. 505 00:32:41,187 --> 00:32:47,547 Morten: But quite early, we got requests and people want to try the hooks and what it was and all that. 506 00:32:47,687 --> 00:32:49,927 Morten: So I really appreciate that from the beginning. 507 00:32:50,287 --> 00:32:53,007 Morten: So that was, but that's only on the positive side. I've never, 508 00:32:53,087 --> 00:32:55,967 Morten: I haven't experienced anything on the negative side, to be honest. 509 00:32:57,038 --> 00:32:59,918 Marvin: And it's interesting because I know how important, you know, 510 00:32:59,918 --> 00:33:02,338 Marvin: there's really no substitute for being on the water. 511 00:33:02,418 --> 00:33:06,558 Marvin: And so I know how important that feedback is in terms of perfecting hook designs. 512 00:33:06,738 --> 00:33:09,858 Marvin: And that's, you know, we'll talk about it later. You know, like Bob Clouser 513 00:33:09,858 --> 00:33:14,898 Marvin: finally has exactly the perfect hook that he wants for his Clouser Minnows and Popovics as well. 514 00:33:14,978 --> 00:33:17,618 Marvin: And I know you're working on hooks with Blaine. But, you know, 515 00:33:17,658 --> 00:33:21,238 Marvin: for people that may not know, you know, what are some of the, 516 00:33:21,238 --> 00:33:23,538 Marvin: you know, like steel features, 517 00:33:24,098 --> 00:33:26,938 Marvin: hook point features that make your hooks different than, say, 518 00:33:26,958 --> 00:33:31,298 Marvin: like Daiichi's and Taimco's and other hooks that are out there just to kind 519 00:33:31,298 --> 00:33:33,978 Marvin: of help educate the consumer when they look and they just see a big wall of 520 00:33:33,978 --> 00:33:34,838 Marvin: hooks and they're like, holy cow. 521 00:33:35,538 --> 00:33:38,638 Morten: Yeah, and there's a lot of hooks to choose from these days, to be honest. 522 00:33:38,718 --> 00:33:44,458 Morten: I don't think we ever had as many as we have now. Now, I think what characteristics, 523 00:33:46,658 --> 00:33:54,238 Morten: yeah, I think there's two ways of doing hooks, you can say. 524 00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:57,578 Morten: You can look the way the steel behaves. 525 00:33:58,818 --> 00:34:04,978 Morten: If you take a Japanese-made hook, if you take it and try to bend it out, you can't do that. 526 00:34:05,098 --> 00:34:08,538 Morten: It's very, very, very strong. but it's maybe 527 00:34:08,538 --> 00:34:11,438 Morten: else maybe it'll become a little bit brittle as 528 00:34:11,438 --> 00:34:14,678 Morten: well our hooks will bend out that's what 529 00:34:14,678 --> 00:34:18,198 Morten: part of the design of it is how they work so our 530 00:34:18,198 --> 00:34:21,178 Morten: hooks that they might need some of them might break 531 00:34:21,178 --> 00:34:24,398 Morten: i'm not 100 sure percent sure about all the hooks but most 532 00:34:24,398 --> 00:34:27,738 Morten: of them will bend out and not break i think 533 00:34:27,738 --> 00:34:31,058 Morten: japanese hooks will probably break but not 534 00:34:31,058 --> 00:34:33,718 Morten: never bend out and i don't i can't say. 535 00:34:33,718 --> 00:34:36,638 Morten: That one thing is better than the other i think 536 00:34:36,638 --> 00:34:39,798 Morten: a lot of people appreciate that they 537 00:34:39,798 --> 00:34:42,518 Morten: don't bend out and rather have them break if that 538 00:34:42,518 --> 00:34:45,298 Morten: happens it's very seldom happens it's not like that 539 00:34:45,298 --> 00:34:48,318 Morten: but that's i think it's two different ways of 540 00:34:48,318 --> 00:34:51,738 Morten: thinking of hooks and how they should perform so it's 541 00:34:51,738 --> 00:34:54,438 Morten: more like a i wouldn't call it a 542 00:34:54,438 --> 00:34:58,338 Morten: religion but i think it's it's a belief we believe in 543 00:34:58,338 --> 00:35:01,418 Morten: hooks that bends out not break and then 544 00:35:01,418 --> 00:35:04,078 Morten: you have the other things the other thing is that if you 545 00:35:04,078 --> 00:35:06,938 Morten: look at a lot of the other designs a lot 546 00:35:06,938 --> 00:35:09,858 Morten: of hooks have a needle point like a 547 00:35:09,858 --> 00:35:12,898 Morten: very just just another very very very 548 00:35:12,898 --> 00:35:15,918 Morten: sharp when you have a needle point and even sharper than our hooks 549 00:35:15,918 --> 00:35:19,018 Morten: actually ours have it's maybe it's not it's 550 00:35:19,018 --> 00:35:22,078 Morten: very difficult to explain and just in words but 551 00:35:22,078 --> 00:35:24,958 Morten: if if you look at our hook if you look 552 00:35:24,958 --> 00:35:30,058 Morten: at our points very close up you'll see they have like they're they are on a 553 00:35:30,058 --> 00:35:34,218 Morten: needle you know look like a needle but then right at the point they kind of 554 00:35:34,218 --> 00:35:39,318 Morten: you know become small what do you would you call that like more like a not as 555 00:35:39,318 --> 00:35:44,078 Morten: a needle but it continues all the time but it just like it gets a little it's. 556 00:35:44,078 --> 00:35:45,638 Marvin: Slightly rounded off at the point. 557 00:35:45,638 --> 00:35:49,318 Morten: Right yeah slightly right rounded off and there's one thing about that yeah 558 00:35:49,318 --> 00:35:55,558 Morten: that's a good explanation i think what you can do with they're quite easy to shop, 559 00:35:56,697 --> 00:36:00,557 Morten: And where we have a needle point, if the needle point break, 560 00:36:00,837 --> 00:36:05,317 Morten: it is very difficult to get them super sharp again. You can always sharpen our hooks. 561 00:36:05,397 --> 00:36:08,917 Morten: I don't know if people do that anymore, to be honest, or they just take out 562 00:36:08,917 --> 00:36:11,457 Morten: a new fly out of the box. So maybe we're kind of old school. 563 00:36:11,637 --> 00:36:15,277 Morten: So hooks that bends out and at point you can sharpen. 564 00:36:15,417 --> 00:36:21,377 Morten: That's the two very important things on our hooks. And you'll see that on all our hook models. 565 00:36:21,857 --> 00:36:26,477 Morten: And I wouldn't say that they set us apart. You see other companies doing the same thing. 566 00:36:26,697 --> 00:36:31,517 Morten: But at least that's our features, you can call it. 567 00:36:31,637 --> 00:36:34,857 Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting you say that because I've got hunting knives that you 568 00:36:34,857 --> 00:36:37,537 Marvin: can't even really sharpen yourself anymore. The steel's so hard. 569 00:36:38,077 --> 00:36:42,197 Marvin: Exactly. And so you literally have to mail them back, which seems kind of goofy to me, right? 570 00:36:42,357 --> 00:36:46,677 Marvin: Because as a kid, I used to get the stones out in the oil and sharpen the knives. 571 00:36:46,737 --> 00:36:51,177 Marvin: And now, they're like, really, the steel's too hard. So once you lose the edge, 572 00:36:51,237 --> 00:36:52,337 Marvin: you got to send it back to the factory. 573 00:36:52,737 --> 00:36:57,877 Morten: Yeah. But I know a lot of, I've spoken to a lot of the Danish sea trout fishermen 574 00:36:57,877 --> 00:37:02,657 Morten: that, yeah, I have some of my best friends don't want to use A-Rex because they 575 00:37:02,657 --> 00:37:05,317 Morten: want the Gamakatsu's where they have the needle point. 576 00:37:05,617 --> 00:37:11,297 Morten: I say, why do you want that? Why don't you use our hooks? Well, I like the needle point. 577 00:37:11,457 --> 00:37:16,177 Morten: And, but I say, if the point is, you know, it's not sharp anymore, I just take a new fly. 578 00:37:16,837 --> 00:37:20,657 Morten: Okay. It's just, you know, it's just a way, different, 579 00:37:20,897 --> 00:37:25,117 Morten: different ways of thinking yeah it's not like nothing is wrong here and nothing 580 00:37:25,117 --> 00:37:30,737 Morten: is right it's just what do you prefer as a as a fly fisherman a fly tire and 581 00:37:30,737 --> 00:37:35,637 Morten: we believe in our you know way of doing it but that's ours yeah. 582 00:37:35,637 --> 00:37:37,117 Marvin: Well it's funny people get worked 583 00:37:37,117 --> 00:37:39,977 Marvin: up and i was like gosh people it's just fishing it's not politics right. 584 00:37:39,977 --> 00:37:44,977 Morten: Exactly yeah that's my yeah i totally agree with you on that marvin because, 585 00:37:45,977 --> 00:37:49,597 Morten: don't let it be become a religion i think we should have fun with what we're 586 00:37:49,597 --> 00:37:51,697 Morten: doing and And there's room for everybody here. 587 00:37:51,917 --> 00:37:54,917 Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting, back to what we were talking about at the beginning 588 00:37:54,917 --> 00:38:02,057 Marvin: of the interview, I think a lot of anglers don't truly appreciate what the hook 589 00:38:02,057 --> 00:38:04,397 Marvin: brings to the fly in terms of, 590 00:38:05,537 --> 00:38:09,697 Marvin: weighting, gap, point, straight eye, bend eye. 591 00:38:10,157 --> 00:38:13,937 Marvin: I know that's a super broad set of things to think about, but I think a lot 592 00:38:13,937 --> 00:38:15,977 Marvin: of anglers don't think about why we're doing what we do. 593 00:38:16,057 --> 00:38:18,377 Marvin: And I think that's one of the things that makes all that feedback you're getting 594 00:38:18,377 --> 00:38:19,497 Marvin: from these guys on the water. 595 00:38:20,117 --> 00:38:24,317 Marvin: But just can you kind of give like a 30,000 foot view to anglers about like 596 00:38:24,317 --> 00:38:27,677 Marvin: how those things come together to kind of make the right hook for the right job? 597 00:38:29,952 --> 00:38:38,172 Morten: I think the easiest way to explain that is probably the conversation we had with Andreas Andersen. 598 00:38:38,412 --> 00:38:43,832 Morten: I think some tires are really, really nerdy about this. 599 00:38:44,172 --> 00:38:47,292 Morten: And I didn't, to be honest, when we started all this, I didn't know that. 600 00:38:47,732 --> 00:38:51,312 Morten: I was not thinking like a hook designer or anything like that. 601 00:38:51,332 --> 00:38:52,732 Morten: I was just thinking as a fisherman. 602 00:38:53,172 --> 00:38:56,972 Morten: When speaking to Andreas Andersen, the way he was thinking about how the hook 603 00:38:56,972 --> 00:38:59,132 Morten: should look, how it should keel, 604 00:38:59,372 --> 00:39:08,392 Morten: how far back on the shank you could tie before the bend starts and all that. 605 00:39:08,732 --> 00:39:12,972 Morten: And it was down to millimeters sometimes. 606 00:39:13,232 --> 00:39:22,552 Morten: No, it's still not right. And the point, how far from the point to the barb 607 00:39:22,552 --> 00:39:24,092 Morten: and all that, how long that should be. 608 00:39:24,092 --> 00:39:30,752 Morten: So being very meticulous about it he was designing the hooks like he would would 609 00:39:30,752 --> 00:39:35,972 Morten: for his flies and and for sure he was part of a whole i would say a generation 610 00:39:35,972 --> 00:39:39,072 Morten: almost of or maybe a group of new. 611 00:39:41,092 --> 00:39:46,052 Morten: Uh streamer fly tires ross madden is one of them as well as a friend a friend 612 00:39:46,052 --> 00:39:51,152 Morten: of andreas as well so that group of people they had a very set mind on how the 613 00:39:51,152 --> 00:39:52,772 Morten: hook should look and they really really 614 00:39:52,852 --> 00:39:55,492 Morten: work so it's so when it 615 00:39:55,492 --> 00:39:58,252 Morten: comes to hook design seen from from from as you 616 00:39:58,252 --> 00:40:01,532 Morten: said from a 30 000 feet perspective it's it's 617 00:40:01,532 --> 00:40:06,132 Morten: a lot of small small things that make the changes and even how maybe you sometimes 618 00:40:06,132 --> 00:40:10,212 Morten: you buy a hook and then you balance it i know a lot of tires do that these days 619 00:40:10,212 --> 00:40:15,732 Morten: then put lead underneath on the top uh and and a lot of things i would say the 620 00:40:15,732 --> 00:40:20,752 Morten: last 10 years I think fly tying has changed tremendously, 621 00:40:21,032 --> 00:40:23,192 Morten: probably more than ever. 622 00:40:23,492 --> 00:40:26,912 Morten: Blaine is one of them, you know, starting out, you know, just his way of thinking. 623 00:40:27,032 --> 00:40:31,432 Morten: That's one part of it, all the shanks and how the fly moves in the water. 624 00:40:31,512 --> 00:40:36,912 Morten: So, you know, I would say maybe more than 10 years ago, but let's say 15 years 625 00:40:36,912 --> 00:40:40,692 Morten: ago, I think a lot of people looked at flies as flies, 626 00:40:40,952 --> 00:40:45,092 Morten: like, you know, like non-fishermen When things have a fly, they think about 627 00:40:45,092 --> 00:40:47,232 Morten: something flying in the air and all that. 628 00:40:47,532 --> 00:40:52,452 Morten: You know, it's a big difference now. I think there's no limits anymore. 629 00:40:52,612 --> 00:40:56,992 Morten: I think you can do whatever you want. The discussion about is that a fly or 630 00:40:56,992 --> 00:40:59,592 Morten: not, I think that discussion has almost vanished. 631 00:41:00,666 --> 00:41:04,226 Morten: I don't know if you agree on that, but I don't see it anymore out there that 632 00:41:04,226 --> 00:41:08,166 Morten: much. You know, oh, that's not a fly. It's more like a spoon. No. 633 00:41:08,746 --> 00:41:11,426 Marvin: Yeah, I just come back to it's fishing and then I just go fish. 634 00:41:12,026 --> 00:41:15,386 Morten: Exactly. But I think a lot of people are like that now. 635 00:41:17,606 --> 00:41:21,526 Morten: If you fish with a fly rod, it's fly fishing. What fly you use, 636 00:41:21,666 --> 00:41:23,946 Morten: well, that doesn't maybe really matter. 637 00:41:24,086 --> 00:41:27,666 Morten: And that has sparked a lot of creativity out there. 638 00:41:27,886 --> 00:41:30,086 Morten: And Blaine is a very good example of that. 639 00:41:30,666 --> 00:41:36,586 Morten: You know, thinking the way he does. And that's, and Ross Madden and Andrea Sanderson, 640 00:41:36,626 --> 00:41:38,206 Morten: when we talk kind of life, 641 00:41:38,286 --> 00:41:44,486 Morten: especially in the, and all the big predator flies for a muskie and pike and 642 00:41:44,486 --> 00:41:46,046 Morten: all that. It's a lot of development there. 643 00:41:46,186 --> 00:41:50,386 Morten: And we borrow from the, from the spin industry as well. Cause sure we do. 644 00:41:50,526 --> 00:41:53,326 Marvin: Yeah. And I think it's interesting too, right? 645 00:41:53,386 --> 00:41:58,586 Marvin: Because, you know, we've seen how you had, And you now have the ability to produce 646 00:41:58,586 --> 00:42:04,066 Marvin: almost an infinite number of hook options cost effectively because you can design 647 00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:07,166 Marvin: them inexpensively. You don't need large runs anymore like you used to. 648 00:42:08,046 --> 00:42:10,626 Marvin: And it takes the time where, you know, if you talk to Blaine, 649 00:42:10,686 --> 00:42:13,526 Marvin: he'll tell you about spending hours in his garage cutting shanks. 650 00:42:13,826 --> 00:42:15,626 Marvin: Yeah, right. And now you're like, Oh, 651 00:42:15,626 --> 00:42:18,066 Marvin: I want one that looks like this and someone's going to make it for you. 652 00:42:18,146 --> 00:42:21,826 Marvin: So then you can go spend time fishing and perfecting the fly and not playing 653 00:42:21,826 --> 00:42:24,266 Marvin: around with bolt cutters in your garage. Yeah. 654 00:42:25,386 --> 00:42:30,746 Morten: And one important thing you said there is the minimum order quantities we need to do. 655 00:42:30,786 --> 00:42:34,446 Morten: The hooks are quite expensive still, I would say, compared to a lot of other things. 656 00:42:34,506 --> 00:42:37,466 Morten: But you can run them in relatively small quantities. 657 00:42:37,846 --> 00:42:42,146 Morten: And that's the important part of it. That's the reason why you can do all these crazy designs. 658 00:42:42,706 --> 00:42:46,066 Morten: And if people ask me, can you do a hook like that? 659 00:42:46,146 --> 00:42:52,226 Morten: Yeah, we can. And if you think there's enough need for this, 660 00:42:52,286 --> 00:42:54,746 Morten: we can do it because the runs are not that big. 661 00:42:55,186 --> 00:43:01,426 Morten: Because for sure, if you do a super big run, the price per hook will be lower, but the, 662 00:43:02,404 --> 00:43:06,564 Morten: Then you'd probably never do that hook because you don't need a 100,000 in one 663 00:43:06,564 --> 00:43:10,144 Morten: size. Maybe you only need 20 or 30. And that's doable today. 664 00:43:10,484 --> 00:43:16,624 Morten: It wasn't like that like 10 years ago. I think that's huge competition as well, to be honest. 665 00:43:16,844 --> 00:43:22,804 Marvin: Yeah. And so for folks that aren't familiar, tell us a little bit about kind of the design process. 666 00:43:22,964 --> 00:43:25,224 Marvin: Because I think we were talking in Michigan and you kind of have a notebook 667 00:43:25,224 --> 00:43:31,764 Marvin: with pictures. and how you kind of move from that to bring a fly to market and 668 00:43:31,764 --> 00:43:34,044 Marvin: kind of what that process looks like and how long it takes. 669 00:43:36,204 --> 00:43:40,224 Morten: I think I could use a quite fresh example we have right now. 670 00:43:40,624 --> 00:43:44,584 Morten: The hook is not even on the market. That might be more fun to talk about, to be honest. 671 00:43:45,224 --> 00:43:50,324 Morten: It started out with an idea that we wanted to remake, actually, 672 00:43:50,324 --> 00:43:56,524 Morten: some of the classic dry fly you can use for all the classic catch skill patterns. 673 00:43:57,064 --> 00:44:00,664 Morten: And that's not an easy task. You can stir up a lot of people. 674 00:44:01,104 --> 00:44:04,244 Morten: So you need to talk to the right people. 675 00:44:04,404 --> 00:44:07,744 Morten: And that's where it all starts and put them together. In this case, 676 00:44:07,804 --> 00:44:12,804 Morten: it was one from the US, one from Europe and one from the UK and one from Denmark. 677 00:44:12,964 --> 00:44:16,604 Morten: And they sat together and kind of discussed how should that hook look like. 678 00:44:16,744 --> 00:44:20,144 Morten: And a lot of these three guys know a lot about the history. 679 00:44:20,804 --> 00:44:24,884 Morten: They have the old hooks from the 1910 and 680 00:44:24,884 --> 00:44:27,524 Morten: 1890 or whatever and they look at that 681 00:44:27,524 --> 00:44:30,524 Morten: oh and even back then there was no one right design 682 00:44:30,524 --> 00:44:36,324 Morten: that's what it just the perception of how that hook should look like then gradually 683 00:44:36,324 --> 00:44:40,244 Morten: they come up with something that okay it should look like this then we do the 684 00:44:40,244 --> 00:44:45,364 Morten: drawings send them to the factory make let them make a sample so they can have 685 00:44:45,364 --> 00:44:49,124 Morten: a look at it and try to tie on it, which is very important when it comes to classic looking, 686 00:44:50,324 --> 00:44:52,324 Morten: hooks for classic looking flies. 687 00:44:52,704 --> 00:44:55,344 Morten: They need to tie it as well. So it's. 688 00:44:57,213 --> 00:45:00,873 Morten: And that's not even on the market yet. Then they decide, okay, 689 00:45:00,953 --> 00:45:03,713 Morten: this is the right design. Then we do the ordering. 690 00:45:04,173 --> 00:45:08,213 Morten: And then we'll probably have the hooks within three months or something like 691 00:45:08,213 --> 00:45:11,613 Morten: that. So from the start to the finished hook, this will take, 692 00:45:11,633 --> 00:45:15,133 Morten: you know, until the hook is on the market, it would probably take at least a 693 00:45:15,133 --> 00:45:17,893 Morten: year from the first idea. 694 00:45:18,133 --> 00:45:22,913 Morten: Sometimes we can do it much faster if we have a very clear picture of what that hook should look like. 695 00:45:23,393 --> 00:45:26,613 Morten: Then we can probably do it in six months or something like that. 696 00:45:26,613 --> 00:45:28,133 Morten: But normally it's longer. 697 00:45:29,113 --> 00:45:32,313 Marvin: Yeah, and I know you relatively recently, you've got specialty hooks. 698 00:45:32,393 --> 00:45:37,313 Marvin: We're talking about Bob Klauser and Bob Popovics. How is that design process different? 699 00:45:37,393 --> 00:45:40,733 Marvin: Is it easier because they have very, very specific ideas of what they want, 700 00:45:40,873 --> 00:45:44,313 Marvin: and so you don't have to iterate the design process as much? 701 00:45:44,573 --> 00:45:48,773 Morten: No, true. They have a very clear picture, because that's their, 702 00:45:48,973 --> 00:45:55,833 Morten: both the Bob's and both the Bob's case, they have a very, very clear. 703 00:45:55,833 --> 00:46:00,233 Morten: They've been doing the flies and the tying for so many years. 704 00:46:00,433 --> 00:46:05,733 Morten: So that's very, very easy. But even just to talk about, I think Klaus was very 705 00:46:05,733 --> 00:46:09,433 Morten: easy because his flies have been out there for so many years. 706 00:46:09,493 --> 00:46:16,033 Morten: I think in Popovic's case, he always felt that he didn't have exactly the right hook. 707 00:46:16,193 --> 00:46:21,413 Morten: So there we had to do some small changes, especially on the size of the hook eye. 708 00:46:21,413 --> 00:46:24,973 Morten: He wanted a slightly bigger than normal because 709 00:46:24,973 --> 00:46:27,873 Morten: he wanted to be able to use a wire and things 710 00:46:27,873 --> 00:46:30,613 Morten: like that and maybe a thicker leader and we didn't think 711 00:46:30,613 --> 00:46:33,533 Morten: about that that was bob's input and we 712 00:46:33,533 --> 00:46:36,833 Morten: made those small changes and that's because it's not 713 00:46:36,833 --> 00:46:40,053 Morten: a you know a normal thing to do for the hook manufacturer you 714 00:46:40,053 --> 00:46:42,893 Morten: need to let them know and how to make that hook bigger and 715 00:46:42,893 --> 00:46:45,793 Morten: all that so it it took a little bit longer time with 716 00:46:45,793 --> 00:46:48,773 Morten: his hook design but still it was it 717 00:46:48,773 --> 00:46:51,493 Morten: was pretty easy because he had some of 718 00:46:51,493 --> 00:46:56,493 Morten: the same because he's the father of many of these very all the big streamers 719 00:46:56,493 --> 00:47:02,993 Morten: he had the same idea about having a you know a long shank where you have a when 720 00:47:02,993 --> 00:47:07,393 Morten: the when they from shank to the bend it come quite abruptly so he has a lot 721 00:47:07,393 --> 00:47:10,973 Morten: of space to tie on and that's the same like 722 00:47:11,033 --> 00:47:15,253 Morten: Andreas had on his stream of flies, inspired by Bob, for sure. 723 00:47:15,433 --> 00:47:18,673 Morten: So everybody's kind of looking at what he has been doing. 724 00:47:18,873 --> 00:47:22,373 Morten: So now Bob was, Popovich was easy as well. 725 00:47:22,733 --> 00:47:27,433 Morten: It just, we don't, we just, for us, when we work with people like Klaus and 726 00:47:27,433 --> 00:47:31,033 Morten: Popovich, it's very, very important for us that we hit it right. 727 00:47:31,613 --> 00:47:35,773 Morten: Because the worst thing that could happen is that we make a hook and they really 728 00:47:35,773 --> 00:47:37,313 Morten: don't like it. That would be awful. 729 00:47:38,853 --> 00:47:42,313 Marvin: Yeah, that would be very, very, very bad. Yeah, very unfortunate. 730 00:47:42,993 --> 00:47:48,333 Marvin: Do you have any other kind of upcoming product releases you can share with us? 731 00:47:50,322 --> 00:47:57,482 Morten: Apart from the couple of classic fly hooks and hopefully the hook with Blaine, 732 00:47:57,582 --> 00:48:04,582 Morten: when we get time to sit down and do that one, that's the three hooks we're working on right now. 733 00:48:05,642 --> 00:48:08,762 Morten: And to be honest, we haven't been working on Blaine's hooks yet. 734 00:48:08,802 --> 00:48:13,542 Morten: We've just been talking about it. But hopefully it will play out. 735 00:48:15,282 --> 00:48:20,222 Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting too because I've watched your hooks through the years. 736 00:48:20,322 --> 00:48:23,542 Marvin: And doing time classes and things and it's interesting to see that you kind 737 00:48:23,542 --> 00:48:28,722 Marvin: of almost have an inverted product development uh catalog where you did specialty 738 00:48:28,722 --> 00:48:31,642 Marvin: hooks first and now you're building out the more traditional hooks. 739 00:48:31,642 --> 00:48:37,742 Morten: Right yeah yeah um i think that came out of the whole idea in the beginning 740 00:48:37,742 --> 00:48:43,342 Morten: that we needed to fill some gaps and uh and that that we just kept doing that 741 00:48:43,342 --> 00:48:48,822 Morten: in the beginning and then as you said eventually we got around to do the the 742 00:48:48,822 --> 00:48:50,282 Morten: hooks everybody needs as well. 743 00:48:50,462 --> 00:48:54,702 Morten: But I think we maybe got known for doing the goofy stuff. 744 00:48:55,582 --> 00:48:59,422 Marvin: But I would say one of the great things, and I think Daiichi has this too, 745 00:48:59,582 --> 00:49:03,282 Marvin: is if you go to your website, you've got the chart so that people can go and 746 00:49:03,282 --> 00:49:05,902 Marvin: see, oh, well, I like to tie on a TMCO 100. 747 00:49:06,102 --> 00:49:08,162 Marvin: What's the analog AREX hook, right? 748 00:49:08,442 --> 00:49:11,762 Marvin: And that's super helpful. I mean, like you said, they're all still different. 749 00:49:11,842 --> 00:49:14,082 Marvin: Like the wire gauge may be different. The gap might be different, 750 00:49:14,202 --> 00:49:16,482 Marvin: but it's always helpful. 751 00:49:17,402 --> 00:49:20,042 Marvin: Kind of back to what we started about at the beginning, people are like, well i don't have 752 00:49:20,042 --> 00:49:22,942 Marvin: a tmc 100 and i was like well do you have a daichi 753 00:49:22,942 --> 00:49:26,042 Marvin: whatever and they're like oh i was like it works like what are you looking for 754 00:49:26,042 --> 00:49:32,062 Marvin: long shank you know thin wire hook um so i think that's a great thing for people 755 00:49:32,062 --> 00:49:36,462 Marvin: to to check out and um you know morton is there anything else you want to share 756 00:49:36,462 --> 00:49:40,542 Marvin: with our folks before i let you go and uh wrap up your work day and go have dinner. 757 00:49:41,442 --> 00:49:47,562 Morten: Well i would say one thing and that that's actually very important for me to say it's it's, 758 00:49:49,008 --> 00:49:52,608 Morten: Even though I've been in this industry, as you said, or maybe I said, 759 00:49:52,688 --> 00:49:55,688 Morten: for almost 40 years, I really still enjoy every day. 760 00:49:55,888 --> 00:50:03,628 Morten: It's amazing still to meet people out there like we did in Ypsilanti a couple of months back. 761 00:50:03,828 --> 00:50:06,648 Morten: It's just meet tires, meet fly fishermen. 762 00:50:06,948 --> 00:50:09,328 Morten: And I think it will never grow old. 763 00:50:09,648 --> 00:50:14,688 Morten: I've never been in this industry to be either rich or make a lot of money. 764 00:50:14,808 --> 00:50:23,208 Morten: It's a lifestyle for me. And I think that's, I'm not the only one in this industry who feels like this. 765 00:50:23,328 --> 00:50:25,868 Morten: I think a lot of people, like Blaine is one of them as well. 766 00:50:26,068 --> 00:50:29,608 Morten: And I know a lot of people, they're in this because they really, 767 00:50:29,708 --> 00:50:32,888 Morten: really like fly fishing and love fly fishing and fly tying. 768 00:50:33,368 --> 00:50:39,928 Morten: And that's, I really hope the new one, young ones coming into the industry are thinking like this. 769 00:50:40,128 --> 00:50:44,448 Morten: For sure, you need to make a living. You need to put food on the table and provide 770 00:50:44,448 --> 00:50:51,628 Morten: for your family. But at the end of the day, it's all about the passion for what we are doing. 771 00:50:52,428 --> 00:50:54,028 Morten: That's the thing I'm saying. 772 00:50:54,328 --> 00:50:58,508 Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I always say that I think the fly 773 00:50:58,508 --> 00:51:01,908 Marvin: fishing community is one of the most generous communities in the sporting world. 774 00:51:02,368 --> 00:51:03,408 Morten: Yeah, I agree. 775 00:51:06,272 --> 00:51:13,072 Morten: Sharing is a big thing and i even on social media i always get like you know if you look at, 776 00:51:14,032 --> 00:51:19,672 Morten: instagram for example where you see a lot of you know tires sharing the the 777 00:51:19,672 --> 00:51:23,952 Morten: flies and all that it's almost never any politics in there it's always about 778 00:51:23,952 --> 00:51:29,792 Morten: the the hobby and it's almost like if you if you if you dare to write anything 779 00:51:29,792 --> 00:51:33,532 Morten: with politics regarding politics you you'll be, 780 00:51:34,552 --> 00:51:40,052 Morten: blame, but it's not a good thing to do. And I really, really enjoy that. 781 00:51:40,392 --> 00:51:44,512 Morten: There's just still a few places where you actually just can share your love 782 00:51:44,512 --> 00:51:50,052 Morten: for something you really like to do instead of ending up in bad discussions 783 00:51:50,052 --> 00:51:52,972 Morten: about who's the best president or whatever. 784 00:51:53,872 --> 00:51:56,352 Morten: It's just fish and night flies. 785 00:51:57,212 --> 00:52:01,912 Marvin: What I would say is I know you're a very accomplished photographer and if you 786 00:52:01,912 --> 00:52:05,692 Marvin: look at your website And if you look at your YouTube channel and your social 787 00:52:05,692 --> 00:52:09,412 Marvin: media, you have great content, right? It's really beautifully produced. 788 00:52:09,732 --> 00:52:12,652 Marvin: I think your tying videos in terms of helping people learn to tie, 789 00:52:12,772 --> 00:52:15,512 Marvin: like, you know, all the materials, everything's great. 790 00:52:16,032 --> 00:52:20,732 Marvin: You know, I think people should check them out. And I'll drop links to all that stuff in the show notes. 791 00:52:21,192 --> 00:52:26,052 Marvin: You know, I guess in the United States, I guess Hairline is your distributor here. 792 00:52:26,212 --> 00:52:28,912 Marvin: So it's not like you have a lot of retail outlets. But I guess if you're not 793 00:52:28,912 --> 00:52:31,772 Marvin: in the States, go to your website and you've got all of your international dealers. 794 00:52:32,632 --> 00:52:38,832 Marvin: Um i would imagine um probably your social media channels and your website's 795 00:52:38,832 --> 00:52:41,632 Marvin: the best way to kind of learn more about the hooks oh. 796 00:52:41,632 --> 00:52:46,292 Morten: Yeah the website is always updated on what we are doing and and maybe i would 797 00:52:46,292 --> 00:52:52,572 Morten: say maybe the strongest we have is is youtube and and and especially instagram 798 00:52:52,572 --> 00:52:57,992 Morten: because that's where i can play with the photographs as you said photography 799 00:52:57,992 --> 00:52:59,512 Morten: is my My other big passion, 800 00:52:59,592 --> 00:53:02,672 Morten: apart from fly fishing, I really enjoy doing that. 801 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,900 Morten: I've photographed a lot of flies, I can tell you. 802 00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:09,420 Marvin: Yeah, I was going to say you need another more expensive hobby like shotguns, right? 803 00:53:09,540 --> 00:53:12,600 Marvin: So you can get really expensive shotguns and then you'll have three really expensive 804 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,540 Marvin: hobbies and maybe throw in sports cars and you'll be done. 805 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:20,540 Marvin: But, you know, I'll drop links to all those. And I know, too, 806 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,900 Marvin: you know, even though you're a Danish-based company, you've spent a lot of time 807 00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:25,240 Marvin: in the United States on the show circuit. 808 00:53:25,340 --> 00:53:28,540 Marvin: So people can look forward to seeing you at the International Fly Tying Symposium. 809 00:53:28,740 --> 00:53:31,580 Marvin: I think you've done a lot of the fly fishing shows. 810 00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:35,520 Marvin: So if they're curious, you know, they'll be able to find you maybe in the hairline 811 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:36,980 Marvin: booth next year or somewhere like that. 812 00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:41,640 Morten: We hope so. We haven't decided on next year, but I'm quite sure that we will be there. 813 00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:45,820 Morten: So, and I really enjoy that. It's always good to meet people. 814 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:52,800 Morten: I have all the respect for social media, but it doesn't beat meeting up in real life. 815 00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:56,700 Morten: That's what we should do even more often, to be honest. It's good. 816 00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,000 Marvin: Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, I appreciate you spending so much time with me, 817 00:54:01,060 --> 00:54:04,600 Marvin: and it's been a lot of fun, and I'm glad we had a chance to sit down and talk. 818 00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:07,340 Morten: My pleasure, Marvin. Thank you for having me. 819 00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,040 Marvin: Take care. 820 00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:09,060 Morten: Take care. 821 00:54:10,020 --> 00:54:13,100 Intro: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. 822 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,540 Intro: Again, if you like the podcast, please tell a friend, and please subscribe and 823 00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:19,660 Intro: leave us a rating or review in the podcatcher of your choice. 824 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,020 Intro: Tight lines, everybody.